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Kamalot
06-12-2005, 08:49 AM
Lost Garden takes a deep look and analysis at what makes Nintendogs, the DS game rocking the charts in Japan, tick. The article is not a game review, but a game design analysis and is really quite a good read if you have any interest in the principles behind game design.

Link (http://lostgarden.com/2005/06/nintendogs-case-of-non-game-that.html)

The designers of Nintendogs recognized that if you can build a game that lets people experience the joys of owning a dog you can tap into a market rarely touched by traditional games. This is a very different thought process than "Let's make a game like X except better". Instead, it requires game designers to go out in the field and understand how games an be applied to broader trends in their culture. The designer of Nintendogs asked the simple question "How do games apply to the world outside of me?"

Such big picture thinking that is utterly alien to people who think of games as the sole domain of elite geeky guys. The good news is that people who successfully apply the techniques of game anthropology are rewarded beyond their wildest dreams.

Thanks to 4colorrebellion (http://www.4colorrebellion.com/archives/2005/06/12/nintendogs-game-design-review) for the great find!

Jacob Singer
06-12-2005, 09:41 AM
That seems just a tad over-analyzed for a game that basically just lets people raise a cute widdle puppy.

Varsity
06-12-2005, 09:50 AM
Not at all, that's the point. ;)

zeeeg
06-12-2005, 09:54 AM
I don't really get all the hype over this. I've been watching the Japan weekly sales charts, and Nintendogs isn't really doing anything amazing. It's selling well, but not "OMG IT'S THE NEW POKEMON" type sales at all. But people seem to want it to be that, so they act like it is and write about how it's such a wild phenomenon. They won't be caught off guard this time!

Varsity
06-12-2005, 09:57 AM
Craftsman designers look at existing titles on the market and build up these to create improved titles. Craftsman designers are always hardcore game players with intimate knowledge of their preferred genre. Craftsmen know details, but fail to see deeper patterns.That isn't limited to designers, either...

eatme
06-12-2005, 10:04 AM
This guy is adept at putting up straw men, then pummeling the shit out of them. For example:

"The myth that game designers must be derivative to be successful is fundementally false."

He makes up a preposterous myth (no one would say that after seeing, say, Will Wright's success, or Peter Molyneux's), and then successfully knocks it down. But don't worry, you can do this at home! Here's one. See if you can defeat this:

"The best way to leave your house is through the second story window."

Think you've got what it takes? ...

Varsity
06-12-2005, 10:10 AM
Straw man or not, it can't be denied that a lot of developers (or at least publishers) act like they think they do.

Dracula-X
06-12-2005, 10:33 AM
*yawn* wake me up when we're talking about real games :)

fushi
06-12-2005, 10:33 AM
He sounds like a disciple of Miyamoto, who has some quasi-semiotical knowledge on game design. I really dislike the way he divides game designers into 2 groups, because it sounds like a very carefully worded whine/flame :)

Varsity
06-12-2005, 10:35 AM
They aren't two distinct camps, just two ways of looking at things. You are either aware of the bigger picture or not.

fushi
06-12-2005, 10:45 AM
They aren't two distinct camps, just two ways of looking at things. You are either aware of the bigger picture or not.
It's still an obiously derogative distinction, that's what bothers me.

Blade
06-12-2005, 11:05 AM
Yeah, there's definitely nothing wrong with either mindset. I'm not sure if he meant to deride the "if it ain't broke.." crowd..

Lon Lon Rabbit
06-12-2005, 11:11 AM
Nintendogs not selling very well?
I don't have a link to back me up, but I believe the figures were 400k copies sold in the first week, DS unit sales increasing 5 fold, outselling PSP and PS2 sales in that week combined.
A quick google should sort it out...
I have the game, and it's exceedingly cute. I've kinda slowed down how much I play it a lot though. Every time I play it now the damn things have fleas cos I've left them too long. My girlfriend, on the other hand, plays her copy on average 2 hours per day. She "checks on her puppies" without fail all through the day, every day. I don't think there's been a single day she hasn't played it since she got it at launch. She hardly touched her DS before this, so it's certainly something that has gotten her playing games a LOT more, which is what Nintendo keeps claiming is the idea behind these sorts of games, to pull in more people who aren't really gamers per say just yet.

Varsity
06-12-2005, 11:19 AM
It's still an obiously derogative distinction, that's what bothers me.
I imagine some might find it offensive, but it is the truth. If they can't accept it, that's their problem.

bKangy
06-12-2005, 11:32 AM
Such big picture thinking that is utterly alien to people who think of games as the sole domain of elite geeky guys. The good news is that people who successfully apply the techniques of game anthropology are rewarded beyond their wildest dreams.


Games haven't been the sole domain of "geeky guys" for years and years. Pretentious bullshit if ever I saw it.

Varsity
06-12-2005, 11:53 AM
You've got it the wrong way round: he agrees with you.

eatme
06-12-2005, 12:02 PM
I imagine some might find it offensive, but it is the truth. If they can't accept it, that's their problem.

Well, obviously. Duh. If it's on the internet, it must be true.

Varsity
06-12-2005, 12:17 PM
So tell me, what other camp might a designer fall into?

Neverborne
06-12-2005, 12:35 PM
Games haven't been the sole domain of "geeky guys" for years and years. Pretentious bullshit if ever I saw it.

Hmmmm. Geek.

zeeeg
06-12-2005, 12:36 PM
I don't have a link to back me up, but I believe the figures were 400k copies sold in the first week, DS unit sales increasing 5 fold, outselling PSP and PS2 sales in that week combined.

Well that's pretty typical of Japan. Big games have a great first week, then go down fast. Nintendogs maybe wasn't expected to be in the "big game" category, but it's still no "mega huge game" or anything.

bKangy
06-12-2005, 12:44 PM
You've got it the wrong way round: he agrees with you.

So I did. I just read it quickly, saw those words and how he was hyping Nintendogs and feared the worst.

Racknahm
06-12-2005, 01:16 PM
I want to play Nintendogs, if only for the novelty of it all.

Thenetcase
06-12-2005, 01:24 PM
the only way I'll play this game is if I can sick a Jaguar on the dog and watch them fight. ;)

Or train the dog to be a police dog and watch it rip some criminals arm out of the socket at the shoulder.


But seriously... I think that people need to stop the generalizing bullcrap. These games are only successful because ... well... there are a lot of simple minded people out there who are too damn lazy to get a real dog.

-TNC-

Vandenh
06-12-2005, 01:25 PM
They forgot to mention that Nintendo advertised these games like shit! You couldnt walk anywere in Japan without seeing an add of a cute girl with dog.

Also dont forget that a lot of Japanese cannot get dogs because their houses are to small and they are not allowed to have pets. You can actually go to Wan Wan land (www.wandagarden.com) and rent a dog.

fushi
06-12-2005, 01:34 PM
So tell me, what other camp might a designer fall into?
I don't think there's any need at all for some 'camps' or whatever. I just fail to understand what makes the author think that the designer(s) of the most derivative FPS' would somehow ignore fundamental gameplay-related questions like "Are there psychological risk / reward systems?"

But I'm going way off-topic anyway, because the article is about something else entirely. It's just that I can't take his deconstructive take on the game seriously because some of his opinions and (obviouly biased) generalizations are, well, ass. I dislike biased analyzations.

Edit: And honestly, it's otherwise a very good write-up, I just dislike his approach on a certain matter. That's all.

Varsity
06-12-2005, 01:41 PM
As I said earlier, it isn't a camp. It is a simple, standalone mindset that you either follow or don't irrelevant of what other ideologies you have.

Edit: wait, you're the first guy. I guess I just can't explain it well enough.

GammaLeak
06-12-2005, 02:01 PM
Boy, am I the only person not impressed with Nintendo/Miyamoto copying a game made 10 friggin' years ago (http://www.mobygames.com/game/win3x/dogz-your-computer-pet)? (One with several sequels and a spin-off version with cats.) Nintendo's a great company but acting like they're design geniuses for making this game is really giving credit where it sure ain't due.

DarkPhenomenon
06-12-2005, 02:11 PM
WoW, seems like a lot of people's manhood has been insulted by a simple article talking about the design of a game.

if76
06-12-2005, 02:15 PM
I think that he's missing something by seperating game designers into those who focus on improving existing games and those who can see the anthropology behind them. I think a great game designer is someone who can take any theme (like owning a dog) and make a great game out of it. Even if you take the anthropology approach to game design, you won't make a great game without intimate knowledge of what games had done in the past. I think one of the reasons Nintendogs is such a great game is because its designers were able to come up with this great underlying game structure and then place the owning a dog theme on top of it.

Before reading this article I was definitely in the category of people who put Nintendogs aside as "not a game". This wasn't because I was unable to see "the big picture" but because I didn't realize how conventional Nintendogs was. I thought it was more akin to the virtual pet sandbox approach than a full-blown game with goals and rewards. Now that I realize that it shares more in common with Gran Turismo than Tamagotchi I feel a lot more comfortable.

Varsity
06-12-2005, 02:28 PM
I think that he's missing something by seperating game designers into those who focus on improving existing games and those who can see the anthropology behind them. I think a great game designer is someone who can take any theme (like owning a dog) and make a great game out of it. Even if you take the anthropology approach to game design, you won't make a great game without intimate knowledge of what games had done in the past. I think one of the reasons Nintendogs is such a great game is because its designers were able to come up with this great underlying game structure and then place the owning a dog theme on top of it.
The differences aren't in looking back, they are in looking across and between.

Rommel
06-12-2005, 02:39 PM
How much Kool Aid do you have to drink. Nintendo, their favorite press and their fans believe they are the only ones not remaking Doom eevery master copy...

Dragos
06-12-2005, 02:47 PM
Boy, am I the only person not impressed with Nintendo/Miyamoto copying a game made 10 friggin' years ago (http://www.mobygames.com/game/win3x/dogz-your-computer-pet)? (One with several sequels and a spin-off version with cats.) Nintendo's a great company but acting like they're design geniuses for making this game is really giving credit where it sure ain't due.

Ahh, Dogz, it's depressing how many people forget about that game and keep bragging about Nintendogs being completely innovative.

And dont forget Babyz and that spinoff with aliens, hilarious games.

Kamalot
06-12-2005, 02:55 PM
I'm shocked there are so many closed-minded people here.

Honestly.

Shocked.

I came across the article and found it extraordinary; an analysis of this puppy-simulator. I expected it to be ripped to shreds for being a pointless not-a-game much akin to the Sims. Instead, it turns out to be a deep roleplaying game formula wrapped in the dressing and activities designed to appeal to people who don't pick up roleplaying games.

Don't you think this is good for gamers in general? The more people who play, the better off gaming is on every level, even if you don't like the game or puppies.

For those of you who complain that this is nothing more than a tamagochi, why do you spend hours and hours leveling up your Guild Wars or WOW character? Why do you spend so much time worrying about finding a matching set of armor so your character looks cool? What is the difference in these activities and grooming your puppy to take place in competitions?

The thing is if this game isn’t for you, you shouldn’t worry. If Nintendogs isn’t for you there are LOTS of other games that ARE for you. For the people who find this game interesting, there isn’t much else to choose from. There aren’t many other ‘Guild Wars’ wrapped in the dressing and activities designed to appeal to a broader audience.

I thought the article was a great way to understand why the game is appealing to people without having to play it. Instead, everyone comes to this thread to crap all over the article, the game and each other.

Achilles
06-12-2005, 03:09 PM
How many games has this guy designed again? And how many game companies has he worked at where he can start to say how people think?

In the end I’d say this is a very well-written article that explores how the author used to think about game design before he started playing games intended for the most casual of casual gamers and saw how they related to the stuff he was accustomed to. He used to be the one category, the dirivitive game designer and now he takes a wider view because of Nintendogs. Because some people can't just talk about themselves, he makes what he's found out more important by putting his discovery in industry-wide terms, talking about one type of person and another type of person when really he seems to be just talking about himself. This is the straw-man thing another poster mentioned; they weren't straw-men he was putting up, those comments are how he used to view game design, "it's commonly thought that" means "I used to think this" and so on. That's my take on it anyway.

I say cool, maybe this will give some people looking to get into game design some better methods of thinking about it, but I wouldn’t categorize people like that since it's incorrect to do so, everyone has their strengths and weaknesses in design.

Thenetcase
06-12-2005, 06:52 PM
I'm shocked there are so many closed-minded people here.

Honestly.

Shocked.


Over dramatizing things seems to be your specialty. And I am completely not shocked or surprised or flabbergasted or amazed or astounded or impressed or bedazzled or bedizzled or foshizzle my nizzled or whatevered... about you being shocked. Just noticing that you are over doing it a little. ;)
I am the antishocked one.


I came across the article and found it extraordinary; an analysis of this puppy-simulator. I expected it to be ripped to shreds for being a pointless not-a-game much akin to the Sims. Instead, it turns out to be a deep roleplaying game formula wrapped in the dressing and activities designed to appeal to people who don't pick up roleplaying games.
*snip!*


Nintendogs is not a roleplaying game. Get a real definition.
Simulation? Yes. Roleplaying? No. You are not playing the role of the dog. You are playing the role of you -- a person manipulating a simulated pet. That's not a role playing game since you are actually IN CHARACTER. :)


For those of you who complain that this is nothing more than a tamagochi, why do you spend hours and hours leveling up your Guild Wars or WOW character? Why do you spend so much time worrying about finding a matching set of armor so your character looks cool? What is the difference in these activities and grooming your puppy to take place in competitions?


Wow. Those bold letters sure do look sexxxxxxaay!! Gimme some more! Please?? Oh and can you make it symetrical next time? It would look better with my level 32 sword!

WTS: [The Needler] 45G! CHEAPER THAN AH!! PST!


The thing is if this game isn’t for you, you shouldn’t worry. If Nintendogs isn’t for you there are LOTS of other games that ARE for you. For the people who find this game interesting, there isn’t much else to choose from. There aren’t many other ‘Guild Wars’ wrapped in the dressing and activities designed to appeal to a broader audience.


I actually completely agree with the bold section there. The rest of the text is too uninteresting to bother reading! Oh well.


I thought the article was a great way to understand why the game is appealing to people without having to play it. Instead, everyone comes to this thread to crap all over the article, the game and each other.

Well maybe that's because you have a stronger, more emphatic appreciation for poorly written literature than the rest of us do. I would deem this to be true, considering that the article had an obviously Nintendo fan-boy slant to it.
But all things considered, it did a pretty good job of defending a game about puppies. For all of those people out there who don't want the trouble of a dog crapping on their floor, they can now experience a dog crapping inside their computer (virtually, of course). How frigging exciting. Hot damn. Just narly.

-TNC-

Mason
06-12-2005, 07:02 PM
This was a very good article. I wish more game journalism were based on trying to accurately describe these sorts of things, as opposed to gushing about just how many guns are in the newest WW2 shooter. A lot of our established game genres have coasted for far too long on a fixed set of unspoken assumptions, and this is a problem.

Additionally, the current "cult of streamlining" that has taken over a lot of developers (most notably around the time when they switched from PCs to consoles) makes this even worse, as any feature which isn't seen as absolutely necessary for the core game experience is stripped away. This mindset pretty much cements future games to their established genres, as within the context of the genre any innovation you supply is seen as unnecessary.

mister_slim
06-12-2005, 07:02 PM
Here's an interesting article showing different ways to construct a game: Game Design Challenge: The Emily Dickinson License (http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/03/10/news_6120167.html).
How many games has this guy designed again? And how many game companies has he worked at where he can start to say how people think?
He's been in the industry since the early '90s.

mister_slim
06-12-2005, 07:09 PM
For all of those people out there who don't want the trouble of a dog crapping on their floor, they can now experience a dog crapping inside their computer (virtually, of course). How frigging exciting. Hot damn. Just narly.
And now, thanks to 'thenetcase', I've yet again experienced idiots crapping all over internet forums. Wirelessly and for free. Hot damn.

Achilles
06-12-2005, 07:14 PM
He's been in the industry since the early '90s.Well that’s better than his bio where he says he’s in the “Technology” industry and he’s a “Chief Anarkist”. Is there a better bio on him someplace? He’s got quite a few detailed game design articles there.

Thenetcase
06-12-2005, 07:41 PM
And now, thanks to 'thenetcase', I've yet again experienced idiots crapping all over internet forums. Wirelessly and for free. Hot damn.

Awwwww... is my humor too much for you?? Geeewhiz. :)

Oh and I'm not wireless. Sorry to dissapoint. And it's not free. :( It's a sucky $60/mo for me! Oh well. At least I got cable TV with that, even though I NEVER WATCH IT. Con-artists at Comcast....... :P

-TNC-

jacktion
06-12-2005, 09:38 PM
This guy is adept at putting up straw men, then pummeling the shit out of them. For example:

"The myth that game designers must be derivative to be successful is fundementally false."

He makes up a preposterous myth (no one would say that after seeing, say, Will Wright's success, or Peter Molyneux's), and then successfully knocks it down.

Wow, you really don't get it do you. About 99.9% of games are derivative of something else. I wouldn't call that preposterous.

This article is right on the money. It is really telling that he knows what he is talking about because so many people's responses are exactly what he says they will be. "It's not a real game." "It's tamagotchi" "Just lucky"
People just keep proving him right.

fushi
06-12-2005, 11:43 PM
:(
Hey, easy there fellow. No need to be overly dramatic. I don't usually agree with TNC, but he's right, you shouldn't take this too much into heart.
I expected it to be ripped to shreds for being a pointless not-a-game much akin to the Sims. Instead, it turns out to be a deep roleplaying game formula wrapped in the dressing and activities designed to appeal to people who don't pick up roleplaying games.
Well, this is where I'm a bit shocked. "Instead, it turns out to be... " I know you're a quite pro-Nintendo (hey there buddy ;) ), so how come you expected anything less from a Nintendo game, which have always had simple aesthetics coupled with very deep mechanics that always manage to surprise the player, but never overwhelm them. This is the exact reason why this article in itself isn't surprising at all, it's just much more elaborate than your usual forum rant (and as I've whined/noted before: the author is much better at hiding his bias).

Oh, and also: The Sims has even more depth to it than Nintendogs. Just take a better look at it, especially after reading this article.

stuff
Most gaming reviews try to give a simple overview of the game's mechanics, features (i.e. graphics and sound) and overall immersion. If all articles were as analyzing as this, then no one would read them. Joe Gamer would have a hard time understanding whether this game is actually fun or not.

And streamlining isn't the biggest enemy of genre-specific innovation, but I have to get back to studying now, so I'll just leave it at that for now.
Wow, you really don't get it do you. About 99.9% of games are derivative of something else. I wouldn't call that preposterous.
I assure you that he "gets it". Even if there are a lot of derivative developers, the most succesful ones have always been the innovative ones. It's not a myth, it's common knowledge.
"It's tamagotchi"
People just keep proving him right.
Tamagotchis ... have actually quite a lot of depth to them :)

Varsity
06-13-2005, 01:10 AM
Over dramatizing things seems to be your specialty.

..

How frigging exciting. Hot damn. Just narly.
You know, I laughed when I read this (http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showpost.php?p=45726&postcount=5). I'm taking it a little more seriously now.

[Nintendo games] have always had simple aesthetics coupled with very deep mechanics that always manage to surprise the player, but never overwhelm them. This is the exact reason why this article in itself isn't surprising at all, it's just much more elaborate than your usual forum rant (and as I've whined/noted before: the author is much better at hiding his bias).It is stated that the author is pointing out typical patterns in Nintendo games in an unsuprising way. It is then stated that he is hiding bias, and this nearly entirely positive look at game mechanics that goes beyond companies or franchises is described as a rant. Buh? Reasons do not lead to conclusions.

Oh, and also: The Sims has even more depth to it than Nintendogs. Just take a better look at it, especially after reading this article.How does that contradict anything anyone has said, or relate to the discussion?

Most gaming reviews try to give a simple overview of the game's mechanics, features (i.e. graphics and sound) and overall immersion. If all articles were as analyzing as this, then no one would read them. Joe Gamer would have a hard time understanding whether this game is actually fun or not.The quote was about the game, not the review style. You don't play a review, unless you are very sad indeed. Count the f's! :p

I assure you that he "gets it". Even if there are a lot of derivative developers, the most succesful ones have always been the innovative ones. It's not a myth, it's common knowledge.The myth the article suggests is the other way round, that you have to be derivative to be successful.

fushi
06-13-2005, 01:45 AM
Oh boy :) I am sorry, because my unwillingness to quote correctly has led to quite a lot of misunderstandings. I'll explain, as much as I can.
The important point is: I was replying (or trying to reply; might have failed :P) to Kamalot, not commenting on the article, which is why my comments sound a bit off when you take them as comments on / criticisms towards this article.
It is stated that the author is pointing out typical patterns in Nintendo games in an unsuprising way. It is then stated that he is hiding bias, and this nearly entirely positive look at game mechanics that goes beyond companies or franchises is described as a rant. Buh? Reasons do not lead to conclusions.I'll take back the word 'rant', it was needless :)
But as I've stated before (and we can't seem to find an agreement here), I dislike the way he looks at designers. His POV might not be very far off, the recent slew of FPSes and JRPGs are proving him right, but his article makes it seem as if these craftsmen somehow ignore basic rules of constructing gameplay, or rather that they fail to see these at all. I do not think so, but you and he do, so let's leave it at that, it's not worth arguing for.
Edit: The bias, I forgot about it. In my very first comment I said: "He sounds like a disciple of Miyamoto ... ", that's because his look at different developer mindsets reminded me of the way Miyamoto and Nintendo in general tend to look at other developers, constantly stating that there is little innovation outside of the preset genre rules and that they are trying to change this (and they are, no doubt). It's just the way I read the text and how I felt about it, nothing more.
Ah whatever, I'll retract the word bias too, then. Better? :)
How does that [The Sims] contradict anything anyone has said, or relate to the discussion?That was my reply to this:
Kamalot: "I expected it to be ripped to shreds for being a pointless not-a-game much akin to the Sims."
The quote was about the game, not the review style. You don't play a review, unless you are very sad indeed. Count the f's! :pAnd here I was trying to reply to this:
Mason: "This was a very good article. I wish more game journalism were based on trying to accurately describe these sorts of things ... "
The myth the article suggests is the other way round, that you have to be derivative to be successful.Yes, eatme and I seem to think that this myth doesn't really exist, maybe for you and him it does, I do not know. I agree with his statement but I do not think it's a myth that only derivative designers are winners, even though they rake in a lot of cash.

I hope I've explained myself a bit.

Kamalot
06-13-2005, 07:32 AM
This guy is adept at putting up straw men, then pummeling the shit out of them. For example:

"The myth that game designers must be derivative to be successful is fundementally false."

He makes up a preposterous myth (no one would say that after seeing, say, Will Wright's success, or Peter Molyneux's), and then successfully knocks it down.
Why do you think Will Wright or Peter Molyneux's names are even known? Precicely beacuse they take risks about what can be seen as a 'game.' If both Wright and Molyneux made FPS games whose new 'features' included hit-specific locations or bump-mapping, they would be forgotten nobodys.

Hellstorm
06-13-2005, 09:38 AM
Nintendogs not selling well? Let's look at sales from the 11th:

1 NDS Training For Adults: Work Your Brain (Nintendo)
2 PS2 Metal Saga: Sajin no Kusari (Success)
3 PS2 Soccer Life 2 (Banpresto)
4 NDS Nintendogs: Shiba & Friends (Nintendo)
5 PS2 Kenka Banchou - special edition - (Spike)
6 GBA Mahou Sensei Negima! (Marvelous)
7 PS2 Kenka Banchou (Spike)
8 NDS Nintendogs: Chihuahua and Friends (Nintendo)
9 PS2 Tear Ring Saga (Enterbrain)
10 PS2 NAMCO×CAPCOM (Namco)
11 NDS Nintendogs: Dachs and Friends (Nintendo)
12 NDS SD Gundam G Generation (Bandai)
13 PS2 Killer7 (Capcom)
14 NDS Naruto: Saikyou Ninja Daikesshuu 3 (Tommy)
15 PS2 World Soccer Winning Eleven 8 Live Evolution (Konami)
16 PS2 C1 GRAND PRIX (Genki)
17 PS2 Romance Saga (SquareEnix)
18 GBA Pocket Monster Emerald (Nintendo)
19 NDS Touch Made In Wario (Nintendo)
20 NDS Touch! Kirby (Nintendo)

Wow, look at all those PSP games rocking the house. :D

doyama
06-13-2005, 11:11 AM
Of course aside from the question whether this game is truly 'innovative' or not, one wonders "why dont you just go out and buy a dog! why have a game its stupid". Well on my recent trip to Japan I noticed that in Odiaba, which is a sea-side tourist trap hell in Tokyo, there was a store that was RENTING DOGS by the hour. You could rent the dog and take em out for a walk n stuff. There was a HUGE line up for this place. And it's not just one store, there are over a hundred such places all over Tokyo. It's a veritable industry.

In terms of cost, though admittedly the place was in Odiaba so costs are at a premium, but a toy poodle breed was $5000 to buy. Which is basically in the 'insanity' range of prices even for pure breeds.

Also most apartments/condos in Japan are not pet friendly.

So I think that Nintendogs is really a very Japanese/asian region oriented game where owning a real pet my not be cost effective or even possible.

Kylie_Scotts
06-13-2005, 11:15 AM
Wow, look at all those PSP games rocking the house. :D
Sorry Hellstorm, there aren't ANY PSP games in your list. Those are either PS2 games or games for the Nintendo DS.

Is this a real list? It is a shame there are no PSP games selling well. Sorry to burst your bubble though.

doyama
06-13-2005, 11:24 AM
The sales figures given are probably only for that week. Since no major PSP releases are currently in the pipes, it's not suprising that none are listed.

However it is important to note that Nintendogs was released on APRIL 21!! For it to be still a dominant presence nearly 2 months later is telling. I believe this is probably the first 'must own' game for the Nintendo DS in Japan. If you also correlate this with console sales, you will see a big spike in DS sales in Japan compared to PSPs that coincide with the release of both Nintendogs and the Training for Adults series which is hugely popular as well.

I think these 2 games are probably what is helping boost the DS beyond the 'kiddie' market at least in Japan.

Dracula-X
06-13-2005, 11:44 AM
Sorry Hellstorm, there aren't ANY PSP games in your list. Those are either PS2 games or games for the Nintendo DS.

Is this a real list? It is a shame there are no PSP games selling well. Sorry to burst your bubble though.And the Clueless Award goes to the Krusades fanclub, for whom sarcasm is lost on. Moron fanboys bring me joy :) (Is that you, Kamalot?)

Achilles
06-13-2005, 01:18 PM
The last title that shipped of any note for the PSP was Hotshots Golf, which was a big seller. Lots of publishers are working on games for the PSP so I think this drought will be over in a few months. Nintendogs is an absolute success though, and I imagine it will be here as well. It’ll be what everyone’s daughter wants for Christmas, along with a DS. I’m also quite keen on the new DS Mario side-scrolling game. It’s exactly what I’ve been hoping they’d release for console all the years since Mario World.

Danc
06-13-2005, 07:24 PM
Updated my bio on lostgarden.com. Apologies for the lack of information. Glad everyone had such a spirited discussion.

-Danc.

mister_slim
06-13-2005, 08:13 PM
Most gaming reviews try to give a simple overview of the game's mechanics, features (i.e. graphics and sound) and overall immersion. If all articles were as analyzing as this, then no one would read them. Joe Gamer would have a hard time understanding whether this game is actually fun or not.
Eventually we'll have game reviews and game critiques. This, for example, was a critique.

Yeah, there are critiques out there, but they're hard to find. One of the things I like about Play is that it wanders into critique territory more often.

Achilles
06-14-2005, 02:47 AM
Updated my bio on lostgarden.com. Apologies for the lack of information. Glad everyone had such a spirited discussion.Thanks for the info Danc, sorry I if I was hard on you but you know how many people write game design articles and have no background in it, and since you didn't claim any in your bio I figured you didn't have any.