British school chooses PSPs over textbooks

[eth3rton]

"The Nintendo DS may currently have the better reputation for educational-related activities, with Brain Age and similar titles molding minds young and old alike, but a school in England looks to be doing its best to sway things in the PlayStation Portable's favor, announcing that's it'll soon begin employing some of the handheld's non-gaming functions to take the place of old school textbooks. According to The Daily Mail, some 30 students will be given PSPs as part of the pilot program, which apparently could be expanded nationwide if it proves to be successful (one sure way to boost sales). While we're all for putting the PSP to some non-intended uses, we can't help but think that the school is overlooking some of the educational benefits of the PSP's gaming options. After all, you never know when the life skills learned from guiding all those LocoRocos to safety may come in handy."

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/ETH3RTON/pspnti2803_228x160.jpg

Original Story over at : Engadget.com (http://www.engadget.com/2007/03/31/british-school-chooses-psps-over-textbooks/)

PSP huh....?

[Skyelan]

Er... Okay, WHAT non-gaming functions could replace text books? Did I miss something and can someone fill me in?

Also, the more I read this, the more I need to remind myself it's still March 31st. This reeks of April Fools joke.

"The teachers went on record saying that the checks they received from Sony have nothing to do with the matter at hand."

[Commissar Rob]

Um, I suppose the trollish thing would be to make some statement about how you can't play very many games on it...but doesn't the PSP lend itself really well to homebrew apps? Maybe they've got something lined up along those lines? Or are they just planning on using the multimedia functionality.

[Heretic Machine]

This seems like something that is being exaggerated... Then again, I'm pretty suspicious of any program that claims aspirations to give expensive electronics to every student in every school. It is always bullshit, and ends up either being something that only the super-rich or the super-poor get.

Fucking middle class.

[51|RandoM]

Er... Okay, WHAT non-gaming functions could replace text books? Did I miss something and can someone fill me in?

Also, the more I read this, the more I need to remind myself it's still March 31st. This reeks of April Fools joke.

The teachers went on record saying that the checks they received f.

You're joking, right? Wi-Fi enabled, media platform with local storage? If you can't see the uses of something like that in education you might want to open your eyes before you run into something.

business as usual around here, lol.

[eth3rton]

This seems like something that is being exaggerated...

No. I read it on the Internet. Its True... :p

[Skyelan]

You're joking, right? Wi-Fi enabled, media platform with local storage? If you can't see the uses of something like that in education you might want to open your eyes before you run into something.

Yes, they have a lot of uses, I don't deny that. But replacing school TEXT BOOKS?

I mean, I guess if it has a document reader, but I hadn't previously heard of one on the PSP.

[Savok]

And the western education system continues to crumble.

[51|RandoM]

Yes, they have a lot of uses, I don't deny that. But replacing school TEXT BOOKS?

I mean, I guess if it has a document reader, but I hadn't previously heard of one on the PSP.

A PSP can have any software you feel like writing. It has a browser, you can read documents with that if you want.

Teachers have been trying to replace textbooks for decades. An electronic platform that allows you to rearrange your materials to better support what you're trying to teach is a boon. Ever had a class where the teacher would jump back and forth between multiple chapters in a text, telling you to ignore some, or that they didn't prefer the order of the material, or that some of it was outdated and even in some cases in error? I have. An electronic platform helps deal with issues like that.

Never underestimate the coolness factor when trying to reach children. Putting your message on a PSP instead of a dry textbook seems like a good way to get their attention.

You guys are just hung up on the fact that they're using a PSP. Get over it.

[Meusli]

Now all the children will be able to Magic porn out of the air, ah to be a child again. :D

[Skyelan]

A PSP can have any software you feel like writing. It has a browser, you can read documents with that if you want.

Teachers have been trying to replace textbooks for decades. An electronic platform that allows you to rearrange your materials to better support what you're trying to teach is a boon. Ever had a class where the teacher would jump back and forth between multiple chapters in a text, telling you to ignore some, or that they didn't prefer the order of the material, or that some of it was outdated and even in some cases in error? I have. An electronic platform helps deal with issues like that.

You guys are just hung up on the fact that they're using a PSP. Get over it.

This is cute, really.

I just simply didn't see how a PSP could replace a text book (And your best example is that it can go online...), and instantly it's because I have some primal fear of the PSP and it MAKES ME SEETHE WITH FANBOY RAGE.

I like the PSP, I want one desperately because it has quite a few games I want to play, and I like me some portable emulation. Shockingly, just because people find this to be exaggurated doesn't mean they're out to bash the PSP.

Sorry if I fail to see how an entire curriculum can just be pitched out the window for browsing the internet on a handheld. I'd find it just as ludicrous if it were a DS.

ESPECIALLY if from the sounds of it not even all the students in this school would get one. And when it gets broken? When the kids potentially bork up their system? And let's not even get into how it'll be neigh impossible to stop them from playing games. Unless you walk around the room constantly there's nothing to say they're not playing Portable Ops when they're supposed to be searching for the current lesson online.

You're right, sorry, any doubt I have in this comes from the fact that the PSP makes my e-peen feel inadequate. :rolleyes:

Now, if the PSP has other more logical features that I didn't know about, I'd love to hear about them, so this would make more sense than me and I could "Open my eyes", so to speak.

Edit: And for that matter, so the school would write homebrew programs for the school work? Are you joking? Oh good, they'd void their warrenty AND openly announce they're using a feature Sony doesn't want people to.

[51|RandoM]

This is cute, really.

Sorry if I fail to see how an entire curriculum can just be pitched out the window for browsing the internet on a handheld. I'd find it just as ludicrous if it were a DS.


...they don't talk about throwing an entire curriculum out the window, why are you making shit up?

Where do you think the content on the PSP is going to come from?

Hey, I'm just assuming it is a PSP issue with you because I have no other way to explain your inability to grasp the concept. You're reading videogame news on a web browser instead of in a print magazine at this very moment... THINK ABOUT IT.

[Heretic Machine]

A PSP can have any software you feel like writing.

Until the Sony firmware police dicks your software over.

Teachers have been trying to replace textbooks for decades. An electronic platform that allows you to rearrange your materials to better support what you're trying to teach is a boon.

It is also quite a bit more expensive, way harder to replace, and provides an even greater distraction for most students. I mean, I'm sure none of these would ever get broken, or stolen, or lost... and I'm sure that if they did, the average parent would be able to afford to replace it immediately so that their children can continue to participate.

Ever had a class where the teacher would jump back and forth between multiple chapters in a text, telling you to ignore some, or that they didn't prefer the order of the material, or that some of it was outdated and even in some cases in error? I have. An electronic platform helps deal with issues like that.

Assuming, of course, that the teacher knows how the fucking thing works. Considering that most have a hard time with Word, I'd say you're probably looking ahead about thirty years.

Never underestimate the coolness factor when trying to reach children.

Fact: Trying to seem cool to kids when you obviously aren't will negate any respect that you have earned.

You guys are just hung up on the fact that they're using a PSP. Get over it.

This isn't about the PSP. Replace PSP with the DS, a Zodiac, a PDA, or a fucking laptop, and I will still have all of the same problems with it. It will never be widely implemented because of the massive cost involved; if it were it would cost a lot of parents a lot of money to replace whatever device is involved when it inevitably gets screwed over; teachers won't know how to use it properly outside of the small number involved with this pilot program; and to top it all off the PSP will be outdated in a couple of years (losing any cool factor involved), and Sony will likely cease manufacturing them soon after. What then, replace it with a new device, incurring further costs, and yet another adaptation process? Students wouldn't even be able to use the same device over the course of five years.

This is not practical, at all.

[Savok]

Ever had a class where the teacher would jump back and forth between multiple chapters in a text, telling you to ignore some, or that they didn't prefer the order of the material, or that some of it was outdated and even in some cases in error?
Yes, we used this amazing invention called a "bookmark".

On a side note, who could actually read entire passages of text on a PSP? Either you'll have no screen real estate to do said jumping around the page, or the font is going to be so small your eyes will melt.

[Skyelan]

...they don't talk about throwing an entire curriculum out the window, why are you making shit up?

Where do you think the content on the PSP is going to come from?

Hey, I'm just assuming it is a PSP issue with you because I have no other way to explain your inability to grasp the concept. You're reading videogame news on a web browser instead of in a print magazine at this very moment... THINK ABOUT IT.

The news in both sources suggests that the school is using the PSP to replace all their text books. I can see the uses granted in using a media device like the PSP to enhance other learning capabilities, but that just makes it sound like exaggurated hyperbole. I didn't make that up, that's what the reports said.

And again, are you kidding? Okay, so I ask, what sites have all the info in these school texts? Shall they go to wikipedia, land of the user-edited? Really, if they have a site where they've got this info, all power to them, I'd love to see it so I could see the sense in what is being suggested by this news.

It's impractical, it doesn't make sense, and it sounds like the news is exaggurating. That's what I'm commenting on, what the quoted websites say.

[Savok]

...they don't talk about throwing an entire curriculum out the window, why are you making shit up?

Where do you think the content on the PSP is going to come from?

Hey, I'm just assuming it is a PSP issue with you because I have no other way to explain your inability to grasp the concept. You're reading videogame news on a web browser instead of in a print magazine at this very moment... THINK ABOUT IT.
Personally I'm reading this on a widescreen PC monitor (http://www.savok.rolandscavern.com/NewPC.jpg), rather a lot different then a PSP screen (or god forbid, a DS one).

[51|RandoM]

This is not practical, at all.

Thank you for your insight on the possibilities of expanding education.

For every good idea there is a herd of luddites who will list numerous reasons why it won't work. You're just doing your part. You're doing a great job holding up that end.

Meanwhile, those who try to innovate will continue to do so.

[MORGiON]

I love my PSP, but wouldn't a cheap low end PDA be more effective?

[51|RandoM]

Personally I'm reading this on a widescreen PC monitor (http://www.savok.rolandscavern.com/NewPC.jpg), rather a lot different then a PSP screen (or god forbid, a DS one).

Wow, that point sailed right over your head.

[Savok]

Wow, that point sailed right over your head.
Now you're just being simple to piss us off.

I knew there was a reason I despised you, you're the reason the education system is as fucked as it is.

[Skyelan]

I love my PSP, but wouldn't a cheap low end PDA be more effective?

Good point, and it makes the idea even MORE ludicrous.

It is a good idea and a good goal, but PDAs are BUILT for this kind of shit. It would make a lot more sense to use those than a game system that has a limited lifespan and isn't even optimised for these kinds of features anyway.

Not to mention the kids WILL play games on them, so the entire concept of homebrew programs goes out the window the moment the firmware updates.

Contrary to popular belief, not every idea is a good and innovative idea, and not everyone pointing out the flaws in the idea is a stick-in-the-past luddite who just doesn't want change.

[51|RandoM]

I love my PSP, but wouldn't a cheap low end PDA be more effective?

A. People don't make cheap low end PDAs(for the most part) because there is no market for them. Cheap low end PDAs typically had much smaller screens than the PSP. Take the cheapest Palm which lists at $99, that screen is much smaller. They also don't have Wi-Fi, so you're talking about duplicating the content on every device instead of having them access it in realtime from a centrally maintained source.

B. A cheap low end PDA could be more effective in a curriculum that would make use of a touch screen, assuming it had one. The PSP has enough input options to do the job for a lot of material, though, I'd guess.

C. Who knows what they're paying for the PSPs?

D. Don't discount the "cool" factor of doing something like this on a PSP instead of a cheap low end PDA in the minds of the kids.

Skyelan just chimed in that PDAs are built for this sort of stuff. Well guys, PDAs are NOT built for this sort of stuff, hate to break it to you. They're not built to be rich media devices. Some of them handle rich media just fine, but they're not the cheap ones...

[RUSKULL]

wonder how long this will last before "Now some of you may have to share because some are broken and the others are missing". Would they be constantly replacing PSPs? Or will the program eventually just fizzle out.

[51|RandoM]

Now you're just being simple to piss us off.

I knew there was a reason I despised you, you're the reason the education system is as fucked as it is.

You still missed the point. Maybe that is a sign of how messed up the system is, since you went through it yourself, presumably.

Good luck blaming it on me, though. That sure is an insightful comment from a well-educated mind. :rolleyes:

Keep on despising, I know the real reason for it.

[LikeTheRazor]

This thread makes baby jesus cry..

[Borys]

PSP huh....?

And why not?

[Skyelan]

And why not?

Read thread.

Then again, maybe not. Since anyone pointing out perfectly logical reasons why the PSP is a knee-jerk and poor choice for this kind of otherwise good forward-thinking goal is just out to hate on the PSP.

Filthy anti-progress bastards!

Edit: Oh please fiddy. Yes, it's not built for media. But what you were arguing that the PSP would provide to these schools is searching the net, documents, the things you claimed that are good reasons this is forward thinking. PDA can do those.

Your whole argument hinges on these features that the PSP may have, but is not focused on and a PDA does better.

Well you're right, a PDA doesn't do rich media like the PSP does. I should've payed more attention when you advocated how the more blatant media features of the PSP would lend well to researching and replacing text books, instead of just offering more features of distraction in class. ;)

[Savok]

You still missed the point. Maybe that is a sign of how messed up the system is, since you went through it yourself, presumably.

Good luck blaming it on me, though. That sure is an insightful comment from a well-educated mind. :rolleyes:

Keep on despising, I know the real reason for it.
The point that technology is wonderful?

That's super, how about explaining how it's affordable while still being practical? You make something cheap and nasty, it's gonna break down, half of class time gets spent on tech support, yippee. Not to mention kids/teenagers treat things they have like shit, how long do you expect the average life span of these to be?

Lets ignore that for a second and think about screen size. Not everyone is like us, able to stare at screens for 12 hours a day. Big screens are expensive and even more prone to damage to take us back to the above.

Where will lessons be? Online? Well your little device will need Wifi then, I can't see 30 separate cables working out. Wifi is yet another expense. You could stick them on memory cards, but the simplicity in which get lost would rack of these costs pretty quick as well.

And I do blame you and your kind for the downfall of the education system. It's the mentality that everything must be new and different, that you must "get in touch" with the kids. Meanwhile you've forgotten that education is about giving them an education, not social group activities. There's a small army of high school students in this country that can't read or write, this is again your kind's fault for not concentrating on actually teaching them things, rather grasping onto any kind of new age bullshit you can.

We put man on the moon you know, back when education involved education. Now what? We made text messaging on mobile phones and new ways to bombard ourselves with advertising.

My only consolation is that you'll have to live in the cesspit you're helping turn this world into.

[Schnoogs]

And people knock american students?? These guys get to play games all day! ;)

[Kamalot]

I love my PSP, but wouldn't a cheap low end PDA be more effective?
Yes. Yes it would.

With a cheap PDA, you get all the features the PSP could offer, with an open platform on which you can develop your own applications, and a lower price of entry. You also get a touch-screen.

[Schnoogs]

A. People don't make cheap low end PDAs(for the most part) because there is no market for them. Cheap low end PDAs typically had much smaller screens than the PSP. Take the cheapest Palm which lists at $99, that screen is much smaller. They also don't have Wi-Fi, so you're talking about duplicating the content on every device instead of having them access it in realtime from a centrally maintained source.

B. A cheap low end PDA could be more effective in a curriculum that would make use of a touch screen, assuming it had one. The PSP has enough input options to do the job for a lot of material, though, I'd guess.

C. Who knows what they're paying for the PSPs?

D. Don't discount the "cool" factor of doing something like this on a PSP instead of a cheap low end PDA in the minds of the kids.

Skyelan just chimed in that PDAs are built for this sort of stuff. Well guys, PDAs are NOT built for this sort of stuff, hate to break it to you. They're not built to be rich media devices. Some of them handle rich media just fine, but they're not the cheap ones...


Your point C can be applied to your point A. You have no idea what they could have paid for a decent PDA. Then they wouldnt have had to worry about the obvious gaming distraction.

[BigJonno]

The school I work in is looking at exactly this kind of thing, except with PDAs instead of PSPs. We already use laptops and interactive white boards for teaching and use small white boards and dry-wipe pens for "disposable" work. Switching to handheld devices is the next step.

[Heretic Machine]

The school I work in is looking at exactly this kind of thing, except with PDAs instead of PSPs. We already use laptops and interactive white boards for teaching and use small white boards and dry-wipe pens for "disposable" work. Switching to handheld devices is the next step.

Question: Do you work at a private, or public school?

[BigJonno]

Public. Bet that surprised you, didn't it?

[Heretic Machine]

Public. Bet that surprised you, didn't it?

Not really, do you work in an exceptionally poor or an exceptionally wealthy area? If you say you work in a place where the average student is middle, or lower middle class, then you'll surprise me.

[mkelehan]

I feel like a DS with custom-made software (that Nintendo would be more than happy to write) would be a better option. Cheaper, too. And with enough battery power to last one goddamn school day.

[Savok]

Didn't surprise me, socialism tends to enjoy taking the most expensive, useless route to doing anything.

[BigJonno]

Not really, do you work in an exceptionally poor or an exceptionally wealthy area? If you say you work in a place where the average student is middle, or lower middle class, then you'll surprise me.

Difficult to put it in those terms as the American and British definitions of class seem to be very different. The way I know it, to be upper class you have to have a frickin' title.

Put it this way, the school is a completely normal, entirely government-funded primary school. It doesn't get anything different to any other school. The only difference is that we gave the national curriculum guidelines a big "up yours" a few years ago and switched to a creative curriculum. This probably won't mean much to anyone without a basic knowledge of British primary education, but I can elaborate if anyone's interested.

[Johan]

I work in a school that has invested millions in technology to improve academic performance (laptops for EVERY student, ubiquitous wi-fi, textbooks on disk, etc.). This PSP idea looks great on paper and in theory, but will be SHIT in practice, I predict.

Here's what has been our experience at a typical American high school (not British):

1. Kids are careless and haven't a damn clue how valuable/expensive stuff is. They jam their laptops in their bookbags (despite being given bags specifically for the things), cracking the screens, and generally abuse and destroy them. HALF to THREE QUARTERS of my classes do NOT have a functional laptop. They've lost the chargers (limiting the laptops usefulness for a full day of work), busted the screens, picked off the keys from the keyboard, and generally mangled the things.

2. Those who do have a functional laptop invariably use it to download and play games, listen to music, surf anonymously (thereby bypassing our protections against certain websites), and generally screw around. It has become ONE MORE area where I and my colleagues have to be damn "police" and guard against abuses. I don't have time to be a freaking policeman for laptop behaviors; I need to TEACH my core academic content...

3. Textbook discs get scratched to hell, broken and lost. $$$$$$

4. Teachers require training to actually use technology effectively. It's a losing battle, because of the high turnover in teaching (which as a career loses HALF of those who enter it within five years), and because experienced teachers are as easy to change as your gender would be...painful, long-term work, and not really fundamentally successful when you look deeper at the DNA/chromosomes! Experienced teachers have developed their own style of teaching over the years, and when the doors close, they often revert to what's worked before, and that's not usually high-tech. stuff.

5. Money is tight in schools and would better be spent on initiatives that reward teachers and students for specific benchmarks in performance.

Technology in education as a panacea? Yeah, right... :rolleyes:

[Savok]

I need to TEACH my core academic content...
FOOL!! You're supposed to be making them feel wanted and like they have something to contribute to the world, even when they really shouldn't (like more Reality TV shows). All this.... "teaching" is wasting precious time you could be ragging on ChimpyMcBushHitler with.

[Sandman]

So I guess my PSP ate my homework will be a valid excuse now?

[blackzc]

40 replies on this, LOL.

[Johan]

40 replies on this, LOL.

You fail at math. You were #42. :D

So I guess my PSP ate my homework will be a valid excuse now?

You jest, but I can't even count all the times I've had students whine to me that their work was somehow deleted from their computer.

This despite our CLEAR POLICY that NOTHING should be saved on the hard drive (burn it on a disk or use a USB device...no HDD saving allowed).

Whiny little excuse-seeking, laptop-breaking, unmotivating buggers...

[Typical_Michael]

All I know is that I can drop the hell out of a history book, and its probably still going to be useful in the pursuit of learning some history.

PSP, not so much.

[TheEpicOfTyler]

Tons of schools have digital textbooks available for much cheaper than standard texts, so I could see this being one possible solution. (I have no idea how that is saving money however.)

[Johan]

All I know is that I can drop the hell out of a history book, and its probably still going to be useful in the pursuit of learning some history.

PSP, not so much.

I have a student who took his school laptop fishing. You can fill in the rest of the story, but it ends with a water-logged, dead laptop.

I have another student who pushed forward on his screen as the student in front of him leaned back into it...splintering and ruining the LCD screen.

Oh, and I have a student who dropped his textbook into a toilet bowl. He was still able to use it. He didn't want to, but tough luck!

[Deadend]

So, what about the biggest problem with a PSP for learning? The shitty 5-6 hour max battery life over the course of a 7+ hour day, 5x a week, and about 30+ weeks a year? having your textbook die from batteries going dead sucks. Oh wait, the kids could all charge it.

power strips and chargers EVERYWHERE!

Custom software is not allowed to run on the PSP. Or the DS, it has to be signed code. There is more money to spend there.

It seems like a huge chunk of money to try and shoe-horn a PSP into a learning device.

[Savok]

Deadend reminds me of something I should of said earlier. PSPs chew up power like crazy, think of all the recharging going on. Global Warming people, has High Priest Al Gore taught you all nothing? You'd be forcing children to kill polar bears, monsters.

Better go with green power, hmm, more money. Solar panels on the school roofs? God help the child that hits a ball up there. Maybe we should just buy carbon credits, but then you'd be killing African farmers.

Oh dear, I think we're going need an education conference on a nice Caribbean island to sort this mess out. Maybe a few fact finding tours around Europe as well.

[Nadreck]

For an equal comparative price, PDAs are the better option. If they're replacing their textbooks, they're likely using eBooks of some sort, which are generally PDF. While there are several PDF converters for PSP use, the PSP does not natively support the PDF format. (An oversight they could easily correct with a firmware update, but to date have not.)

I'm all for diversifying and experimenting with new forms of technology to aid education, and feel that it's atrocious how disparate the methods used today are, compared to what cognitive sciences have actually shown to be effective. I just think this isn't exactly their best choice of technology for the task at hand.

It's entirely possible that they've had the PSPs donated for the purpose of the program. Pilot programs are often viewed as an "investment in the future" by corporations, and used as a writeoff. Case in point, Apple provided schools in Maine with iBooks for every student as part of a state sponsored pilot program. Not sure if the program is still going on, but at the time, it garnered a lot of really positive press, encouraged a new generation to use their product, and encouraged further purchases from the schools. There's no reason Sony couldn't be doing similar.

[Savok]

We had Macs at school... their presence was more a "discouraging" one, as to future Mac use.

[Apex]

Great, so ive just got off the phone from the police 10 minutes ago. Reporting that a bunch of 14-16 years old have started a large fire along a busy pavement meters off a busy highstreet with a lot of night life and I get told that its not a priority and could face a fine for wasting police time ...

Now I know where the money is going ...

[Savok]

Hahahaha, I think you have an Australia cop in charge down there.

[PXG 360]

This is fucking stupid...

[Ultima Thulian]

I work in a school that has invested millions in technology to improve academic performance (laptops for EVERY student, ubiquitous wi-fi, textbooks on disk, etc.). This PSP idea looks great on paper and in theory, but will be SHIT in practice, I predict.

Here's what has been our experience at a typical American high school (not British):

1. Kids are careless and haven't a damn clue how valuable/expensive stuff is. They jam their laptops in their bookbags (despite being given bags specifically for the things), cracking the screens, and generally abuse and destroy them. HALF to THREE QUARTERS of my classes do NOT have a functional laptop. They've lost the chargers (limiting the laptops usefulness for a full day of work), busted the screens, picked off the keys from the keyboard, and generally mangled the things.

2. Those who do have a functional laptop invariably use it to download and play games, listen to music, surf anonymously (thereby bypassing our protections against certain websites), and generally screw around. It has become ONE MORE area where I and my colleagues have to be damn "police" and guard against abuses. I don't have time to be a freaking policeman for laptop behaviors; I need to TEACH my core academic content...

3. Textbook discs get scratched to hell, broken and lost. $$$$$$

4. Teachers require training to actually use technology effectively. It's a losing battle, because of the high turnover in teaching (which as a career loses HALF of those who enter it within five years), and because experienced teachers are as easy to change as your gender would be...painful, long-term work, and not really fundamentally successful when you look deeper at the DNA/chromosomes! Experienced teachers have developed their own style of teaching over the years, and when the doors close, they often revert to what's worked before, and that's not usually high-tech. stuff.

5. Money is tight in schools and would better be spent on initiatives that reward teachers and students for specific benchmarks in performance.

Technology in education as a panacea? Yeah, right... :rolleyes:

I agree with these sentiments, but I'm confused on one thing. How would a PSP be more expensive? My Business Law book alone cost me $180 (thank gawd for book vouchers!). If I included all the books I bought in just two years alone, I'd have enough to buy 8 or 9 PSPs.

I don't think the PSP is the best choice for this, and your points still remain valid Johan (as do Perigons), but I still like where this is going.

[Typical_Michael]

I agree with these sentiments, but I'm confused on one thing. How would a PSP be more expensive? My Business Law book alone cost me $180 (thank gawd for book vouchers!). If I included all the books I bought in just two years alone, I'd have enough to buy 8 or 9 PSPs.

I don't think the PSP is the best choice for this, and your points still remain valid Johan (as do Perigons), but I still like where this is going.


No lie, if I could get ALL my books in pdf for ridiculously cheap, I probably would. But you are lucky to get one book per term that is offered in pdf, and you only get it if you can prove you bought the hard copy version.

[Ultima Thulian]

I hear ya Michael. Fortunately I'm poor, so I can usually get a book voucher that pays for the books. Still, add 'em up and you get like several psps, pdas, or whatever.

[Johan]

The PSP will NOT save money in textbooks...no device can do that for K-12 public schools. Why, you ask? Because the textbook companies are in their respective business to MAKE MONEY, and what they do is sell the books on CD, for virtually the same price.

Guess what happens to the cds when you give them to students to use as you access the textbook? The lose/break/scratch them.

Overall, a PSP for public schooling is about as brilliant an idea as a dominatrix to teach sex ed...

I have a better way to save money on textbooks; get rid of them. Go online only...use websites to create a curriculum for each course.

/then the students need laptops, and I KNOW what will happen to the laptops... :D

[Ultima Thulian]

I'm tired of that weaksauce arguement. They break them. Same happens to books, and they ain't fucking cheap either. Books get cofee spilled on them, dropped in toilets (according to johan anyway), get lost, get stolen, get ripped, get burned, etc etc etc etc etc etc etc. Well, provide each student with one PSP (since the same psp can be used for all classes and whatnot). If they lose it or break it, they pay for it! Teach the fuckers responsibility. When I lost something expensive as a kid, I PAYED FOR IT BY FUCKING DOING CHORES TO PAY IT OFF. And my parents have been living below the poverty wage since day one, so don't give that weak horseshit.

I don't think PSPs are the best choice, but it is a step in the right direction. But no matter what thing you choose, it is going to be expensive and students will not take proper care of them. That's the way it is, big fucking deal.

[Typical_Michael]

The PSP will NOT save money in textbooks...no device can do that for K-12 public schools. Why, you ask? Because the textbook companies are in their respective business to MAKE MONEY, and what they do is sell the books on CD, for virtually the same price.

Guess what happens to the cds when you give them to students to use as you access the textbook? The lose/break/scratch them.

Overall, a PSP for public schooling is about as brilliant an idea as a dominatrix to teach sex ed...

I have a better way to save money on textbooks; get rid of them. Go online only...use websites to create a curriculum for each course.

/then the students need laptops, and I KNOW what will happen to the laptops... :D

I don't know man, I have no trouble with good old fashion BOOKS. Really, when I was in elementary and middle school, I never thought to myself "Man, I would really rather read this on a computer (PSP!) screen".

I guess when you are a History major (aside from coming to terms with being poor forever), you gain respect for how things were done, and not how they could be done.

Computer labs are cool, I am all for putting the money into PC support classes. I know that mine were lacking. I couldn't even get vouchers for the A+ Exam, which is why I never got to take it. Buy some good computers, put them in a lab, let kids go there everyday, or once a week, or something.

But kids aren't responsible enough to take care of computers, and even less likely to pay attention without constant monitoring. When I specifically need to pay attention in a class, I leave the laptop at home, because I would probably just be on EvAv all day.

Hell, when I was in school sometimes we had to share BOOKs, because the school couldn't afford a copy for every student, with the ever increasing class sizes...pretty basically, the money could be better spent somewhere else.

[Ultima Thulian]

I don't know man, I have no trouble with good old fashion BOOKS. Really, when I was in elementary and middle school, I never thought to myself "Man, I would really rather read this on a computer (PSP!) screen".

I guess when you are a History major (aside from coming to terms with being poor forever), you gain respect for how things were done, and not how they could be done.

Computer labs are cool, I am all for putting the money into PC support classes. I know that mine were lacking. I couldn't even get vouchers for the A+ Exam, which is why I never got to take it. Buy some good computers, put them in a lab, let kids go there everyday, or once a week, or something.

But kids aren't responsible enough to take care of computers, and even less likely to pay attention without constant monitoring. When I specifically need to pay attention in a class, I leave the laptop at home, because I would probably just be on EvAv all day.

Hell, when I was in school sometimes we had to share BOOKs, because the school couldn't afford a copy for every student, with the ever increasing class sizes...pretty basically, the money could be better spent somewhere else.

I'm a history major, and I have no problems with text books. But I don't understand the big fear in using better tech to educate our kids. Better computers, handhelds, all of that shit if done right can go a long way into bettering our education. Shit...we're talking High School students right? If they ain't responsible enough to take care of their shit, then it's hight time they fucking learned! I lost a TI-83 during High School. And did my parents buy me a new one? Fuck no! They couldn't afford and even if they could I'd still be putting the bill. So I had to fucking work and use my paycheck to get a new one...didn't lose the sumbitch again, I can tell ya that!

And another point that same have made that irked me: training. Training? FUCKING TRAINING?! It is a goddamn psp! you turn it on and hit the fucking X button...that's it! That's all! Maybe use the shoulder buttons to scroll through text....oooohhhh....dat hard lolz.

[Johan]

I'm tired of that weaksauce arguement.

Then take a nap. It's not a weak argument; money is a significant issue in education, and electronic devices are MORE EXPENSIVE than books.

They break them. Same happens to books, and they ain't fucking cheap either.

What planet do you live on? A typical textbook in K-12 education (NOT COLLEGE) runs up to, AT MOST, $60 or $70. A PSP, even if it's a bulk sale, will be DOUBLE that.

Books get cofee spilled on them, dropped in toilets (according to johan anyway), get lost, get stolen, get ripped, get burned, etc etc etc etc etc etc etc. Well, provide each student with one PSP (since the same psp can be used for all classes and whatnot).

My school has done that with laptops for nearly 2,000 students at a grand a piece. I can tell you it doesn't work well. Here's why:

If they lose it or break it, they pay for it! Teach the fuckers responsibility. When I lost something expensive as a kid, I PAYED FOR IT BY FUCKING DOING CHORES TO PAY IT OFF. And my parents have been living below the poverty wage since day one, so don't give that weak horseshit.

Good for your parents. And GOOD LUCK finding a way to get students to pay $150 to replace a broken PSP when it's difficult to get them to pay TEN BUCKS to replace a lost novel. :rolleyes:

Oh, and get ready for the lawsuits when the school refuses to replace the broken PSP for the student who won't pay for it and denies responsibility ("I didn't do it. You can't prove it!"). You're denying equal access to educational material, and you (the school) are screwed.

I don't think PSPs are the best choice,

Well, we agree on that.

but it is a step in the right direction.

Not unless you mean a step backward, down a manhole, into a sewer line.

But no matter what thing you choose, it is going to be expensive and students will not take proper care of them. That's the way it is, big fucking deal.

No big fucking deal when you're talking about a textbook that can be dropped, kicked, muddied, torn to hell, tossed in water...AND STILL USED.

Not only are books cheaper by at least half (and far more, since with a PSP, you'll still have to buy e-books!!!), but they tolerate a world more abuse than a PSP.

You're nuts if you think this is a good idea. Nuts.

[Johan]

And another point that same have made that irked me: training. Training? FUCKING TRAINING?! It is a goddamn psp! you turn it on and hit the fucking X button...that's it! That's all! Maybe use the shoulder buttons to scroll through text....oooohhhh....dat hard lolz.

You don't have a fucking clue. Teachers DON'T need training to turn the damn thing on, but they sure as HELL will need to be shown exactly WHAT to use it for. I can tell you what the kids will use it for, though...a lot of SHIT to be distracted by in class...

Which means I need a way to monitor all their screens to be sure they're not fucking around. Got a soluttion for that, genius?

Unless your genius idea is just to hand the damn things out and say, "go for it!" WTF, man! Seriously...

Also, using technology takes a lot of up-front TIME and EFFORT. All this shit about getting lessons online or on the device takes WORK and teachers don't fucking have the goddamn time as it is.

Seriously...you wanna tap into some hostility? Screw you with your knocks on teachers.

[Typical_Michael]

I was thinking that it might be a good idea to give kids who have their own laptops the option of having digital copies of the curriculum, but that seems like its along the lines of educational discrimination. I am not sure I am seeing a way this could work out for everybody. In college is the only time they can get away with saying "get this or fail".

Maybe they could make it part of their grade to maintain the electronics they are given?

My parents probably would have sold me into slavery if I told them I owed the school $200. Or in the case of a laptop, $1000. Woah, that would have been Bad News Bears.

Are the educational systems better off across the pond or something? To be able to afford the initial cost and then all the liability along with it?

[Ultima Thulian]

Then take a nap. It's not a weak argument; money is a significant issue in education, and electronic devices are MORE EXPENSIVE than books.

I was meaning that saying that using tech in schools is bad because they break is a weak arguement.

[QUOTE]What planet do you live on? A typical textbook in K-12 education (NOT COLLEGE) runs up to, AT MOST, $60 or $70. A PSP, even if it's a bulk sale, will be DOUBLE that.

Well, I should clarify that I'm talking high school here. Giving a PSP to a 1st grader isn't smart. But it would be cheaper because the same PSP can be used for every class, for every year. All you'd have to do is download the necessary shit. In the long run, wouldn't be cheaper?

My school has done that with laptops for nearly 2,000 students at a grand a piece. I can tell you it doesn't work well. Here's why:

Good for your parents. And GOOD LUCK finding a way to get students to pay $150 to replace a broken PSP when it's difficult to get them to pay TEN BUCKS to replace a lost novel. :rolleyes:

Then fuck them! Let them fail! If they can't be responsible enough to take care of their future (let alone a ten dollar novel) then I say fuck these kids. Fuck em! Someone needs to mix concrete and clean shitters, let them do it!

Oh, and get ready for the lawsuits when the school refuses to replace the broken PSP for the student who won't pay for it and denies responsibility ("I didn't do it. You can't prove it!"). You're denying equal access to educational material, and you (the school) are screwed.

Okay, you got me there, I'll admit. But couldn't the same apply with books?


No big fucking deal when you're talking about a textbook that can be dropped, kicked, muddied, torn to hell, tossed in water...AND STILL USED.

Not only are books cheaper by at least half (and far more, since with a PSP, you'll still have to buy e-books!!!), but they tolerate a world more abuse than a PSP.

You're nuts if you think this is a good idea. Nuts.

E-books? Awww shit...I figured e-books would be very cheap and would offset the price. Well, I lose this arguement then.

I concede defeat. I still think that advancing tech is a good idea though.

[Johan]

I give up on this thread...ciao.

[Ultima Thulian]

You don't have a fucking clue. Teachers DON'T need training to turn the damn thing on, but they sure as HELL will need to be shown exactly WHAT to use it for. I can tell you what the kids will use it for, though...a lot of SHIT to be distracted by in class...

Which means I need a way to monitor all their screens to be sure they're not fucking around. Got a soluttion for that, genius?

Unless your genius idea is just to hand the damn things out and say, "go for it!" WTF, man! Seriously...

Also, using technology takes a lot of up-front TIME and EFFORT. All this shit about getting lessons online or on the device takes WORK and teachers don't fucking have the goddamn time as it is.

Seriously...you wanna tap into some hostility? Screw you with your knocks on teachers.

Kids find ways to distract themselves from class. Fuck, they excel at it. Tetris on a TI-83 (something required in many math classes)? Yes please. Comics wedged in between books? You bet.

As for the training, it wouldn't take much. It isn't difficult by any stretch. A laptop is much more complex than a PSP, but many teachers use them, along with expensive projecters, graphing calculators, things that catch shit on fire, etc etc etc. I was not ripping on teachers, sorry if it came off that way.

In any case, I concede defeat in this arguement, as I'm clearly wrong. I guess I let my zeal for tech cloud my judgement...but still! Think of the possibilities! Surely you can see where I'm coming from on that, right?

[Johan]

Surely you can see where I'm coming from on that, right?

You win. I give up. Buy them all PSPs and fire the teachers who don't like it or won't utilize them. Replace them if/when they break. Drop paper-based books and replace them with similarly priced ebooks or disk-based books. Include a pack-in UMD of Napoleon Dynamite for kicks and giggles.

I retract all my former statements. It's gonna work great, and it's headed here soon.

Good fucking night.

[Kamalot]

The article states that PSPs will be used to compliment traditional forms of education, not replace standard textbooks.

Using PSPs over traditional PDAs is downright dumb though. The browser on the PSP is worse than the one on my phone.

[Ultima Thulian]

You win. I give up. Buy them all PSPs and fire the teachers who don't like it or won't utilize them. Replace them if/when they break. Drop paper-based books and replace them with similarly priced ebooks or disk-based books. Include a pack-in UMD of Napoleon Dynamite for kicks and giggles.

I retract all my former statements. It's gonna work great, and it's headed here soon.

Good fucking night.

Whoa whoa! I admitted to being wrong, and said that you were correct (and I mean that...I ain't too proud to admit when I'm mistaken). I just think that technology for the purpose of educating our kids is good. And that's where I'm coming from, that's all. I think you misunderstand my position...

[Johan]

The article states that PSPs will be used to compliment traditional forms of education, not replace standard textbooks.

Regardless of their basic function educationally, they're expensive, eminently breakable, and will undoubtedly lead to massive problems for the teacher in terms of monitoring the damn device.

I agree with you that a PDA would be better. Still, schools don't generally have the money for this kind of stuff. I think it's a waste.

Once again, nite.

[Ultima Thulian]

That's unfortunate Johan. Cause schools should have the money. I for one would like to see more of my tax dollars put to use for education.

[Johan]

I'm in a pissy mood, and I'm only one person anyways...it's just my stupid opinion.

[Heretic Machine]

1) College text books cost way more than books sold to public schools. This is because college is a scam, and you have already proven to be gullible just by signing up. What are you going to do, not buy the books? They can charge what they want.

2) The people who make the books wouldn't sell digital versions cheaper than hardbacks. For examples of similar phenomenon, look at the way digital music, games, and movies are handled.

3) Most teachers are either too lazy or incompetent to be trusted with making their own curriculum. In rare cases, it would actually be beneficial to let the teacher just teach the way they want to. But mostly it would be a disaster. So they would still be a slave to the book manufacturers, which wouldn't reduce the costs in books, as explained above.

In the future, I don't see handheld or portable devices being the window for education to make it's way into the 21st century. Instead, I believe we will see Smart Desks (my term, bitches) with LCD screens and sturdy input devices as the wave of the future. Using distributed computing to reduce the cost of the individual parts in the desks, the most expensive piece would b the LCD screens, which should cheapen over time. They could connect to the internet via wi-fi, and allow for new forms of education that I assume this PSP program is looking at. Each student would likely have an account of their own, possibly identified through biometric scans to simplify the process, and would log in to a new desk each time they switched classes (so that free-seating isn't a problem). Hopefully this would also mean that sick students could access their homework from home and such.

Additionally, because they are desks they will not suffer many of the same abuses as a portable device. They won't be dropped, thrown into a toilet, or stuffed into a backpack. With a nice hard plastic window over the LCD, it should be quite safe unless someone wants to maliciously destroy it. There would be very little room for accidents to occur, which is where most of the damage to portable devices would come from. It would also be extremely hard to lose a desk.

I dunno, that is what I see, I could be wrong.

[Dag-Sabot]

My experience with the psp referring specifically to its useful battery life makes for a short school day indeed.

[Incidence]

Tech like this will at some point replace paper textbooks but it won't for a very long time for the simple reason that the tech isn't good enough yet. I'm pretty careful with my school stuff, I don't abuse it and am more careful then most of my friends but I still put my books and notepads thought treatment that can and has broken tech, and I've lost stuff, it happens.

Even with paper, stuff gets ruined all the time by people so until the tech can survive the same amount of abuse and neglect (battery life for the lose) it won't be practical for the average student.

There are a lot of advantages in theory to using digital technology in school, internet access for information, easy access to media files, digital backups of homework/class work, easier note taking, easier to carry, multiple uses in a single device, its all worth pursuing but the promise doesn't currently survive the technical or social limitations. Lawsuits, porn, games, cheating, plagiarism, divided attentions, and just generally stupid people will all make it impossible to implement something like this for quite a long time.

[Loganrapp]

A PSP can have any software you feel like writing. It has a browser, you can read documents with that if you want.

Teachers have been trying to replace textbooks for decades. An electronic platform that allows you to rearrange your materials to better support what you're trying to teach is a boon. Ever had a class where the teacher would jump back and forth between multiple chapters in a text, telling you to ignore some, or that they didn't prefer the order of the material, or that some of it was outdated and even in some cases in error? I have. An electronic platform helps deal with issues like that.

Never underestimate the coolness factor when trying to reach children. Putting your message on a PSP instead of a dry textbook seems like a good way to get their attention.

You guys are just hung up on the fact that they're using a PSP. Get over it.

I find myself usually disagreeing with you. This is one of those times when it is not the case.

Really, this is a good thing. I never read textbooks in high school - I'd skip them and continue on reading Clancy and Ludlum and old school Forsythe. I think on a PSP, I would have read a lot more.

[Savok]

I've discovered there are two kinds of teachers in the world.

One is a delusional, self righteous bitch. They say children are precious and should be nurtured while secretly not being able to stand them and will only go near one when legally bound. They like being teachers because it gives them power over someone else and kids have to listen to them when they go on about whatever the flavor of the month political issue is going.

Then you have your Johans, rather cynical, incredibly bitter, they do what they do out of love for their work, wondering why God cursed them so. They want to educate, this is their goal. Only every jackass with an agenda seems to go out of their way to obstruct them, they're not building social networks properly, they're restricting artistic expression when they tell a child to stop scratching their name into their desk, they're *GASP* FAILING A CHILD who in fact knows fuck all about anything.

These people, quite honestly, are one of the few things left keeping civilization from dissolving entirely.

Funding.... I've always found that when schools get money, it's instantly squandered as the first group always manages to get their hands on it before the second, as the second group are seen as too negative and the funding is for "positive" things.

[Ultima Thulian]

When I become a teacher, I'll go the Johan route. Hopefully I can avoid the manic depression that comes with it though!

Hi johan! :D

[agentgray]

More and more I'm reminded of why not to surf the net on this day of all days.

[bitwise]

Look at your calendars and turn in your badges.

[Kamalot]

I find myself usually disagreeing with you. This is one of those times when it is not the case.
How can you agree with a statement like this?
"A PSP can have any software you feel like writing."

Unless you are an official PSP developer, Sony does not want you writing ANY software for their portable, even if it saves every hungry child on the planet. Sony continues to lock down homebrew at every opportunity.

Do you honestly think any school system would be purchasing PSP's to hack them? Do you honestly think anyone in Government or Sony would let them get away with that?

PSP is a poor tool for educational purposes when compared to the alterntives.

[kickmybum]

DS seems a better choice than a PSP, because you can use the stylus for highlighting text or taking notes, etc. I wonder if Sony agreed to make a special "cheap" version of the PSP for educational use only.

[Johan]

PSP is a poor tool for educational purposes when compared to the alterntives.

And that is why the schools will buy them. As a government entity, the schools are tasked with wasting as much money, time and effort as is reasonably possible!

[Savok]

Now now, Johan, you'll never to get to go on a fact finding mission to Fiji with that attitude.

[Johan]

Now now, Johan, you'll never to get to go on a fact finding mission to Fiji with that attitude.

We just sent a teacher on a similar overseas trip. I will leave out the destination, but I will say it was a bunch of...well, shall I say, poopie??

Taxpayer dollars in action!

[BigJonno]

Then you have your Johans, rather cynical, incredibly bitter, they do what they do out of love for their work, wondering why God cursed them so. They want to educate, this is their goal. Only every jackass with an agenda seems to go out of their way to obstruct them, they're not building social networks properly, they're restricting artistic expression when they tell a child to stop scratching their name into their desk, they're *GASP* FAILING A CHILD who in fact knows fuck all about anything.

I've been in education since September and I'm already getting like this. Fortunately there is enough good to more than make up for the bad.