Sony UK Boss Attacks "Lazy" Press, Defends PS3 Price [Archive]

fitbabits

03-23-2007, 07:57 AM

GI.biz (http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=23722) again supplies the goods. This time, though, Ray Maguire attacks the press by calling them "lazy" and once again defends the price of the PS3. Sony did consider pricing the PS3 at GBP 429, but opted instead for GBP 425 as they wanted the best for the consumer... That's at least three cans of Foster's lager they're giving you - for free!

Critics are saying that as console launches go, this is one of the bumpiest we've seen. Do you agree with that – has the PS3 taken a rocky road to launch?

Well, it's certainly not been smooth sailing. I'd have to say that every launch has its issues. Sometimes they're behind the scenes so you'll see the grace of the swan above the water and not the rapid movement of legs beneath.

Nowadays, with how the media works, not only does information fly around at the speed of light, so does mis-information. With blogs on the increase, people's thought processes are transferred from one place to another and picked up by people who might be lazy when it comes to finding out whether something is true or not. The old adage of never let the truth get in the way of a good story is probably more prevalent than it has been before.

You also have to remember that we're one of the most cynical nations on the planet and even if you're telling people the absolute truth they doubt whether that information is real or not. This is the world that we sit in and we have to accept it and make the best of it.We have to make sure that what we're doing is focusing on making the best product for the consumer at the best price and making sure that experience is second to none.

Arguably, Nintendo and Microsoft are dealing with this new media and they seem to have had an easier time of it. Do you think that Sony has to accept some responsibility for the negative things that have happened in the run up to launch?

When you're the market leader – the biggest brand – you're the biggest target to hit. Of course we're going to be subject to that. Also, we set ourselves the highest expectations and we want to deliver the best. Innovation carries risk. And if you're not prepared to take risks I don't think you're really worthy of getting the crown at the end. That risk, and the issues brought up by taking those steps into a place that no-one else wants to go to, makes it rockier.
Okay then. There's being defensive and there's being obnoxious - I'll let you decide which Maguire is being after you read the interview.

rjcc

03-23-2007, 07:59 AM

'NOXIOUS.

you see it

silv

03-23-2007, 08:02 AM

From the clip it doesn't seem bad to me. Sounds fairly reasonable.

Skyelan

03-23-2007, 08:02 AM

Dearest Sony,

Shut the fuck up. It's over. It was a horrible launch, and you have no one to blame but yourself. It's arguably one of the worst launches video game systems have had. It's down there with the N-Gage for christ sakes. Much ado about nothing, and the few who did buy one seemed like they were embarassed to walk the deserted 'launch parties'.

Launches are supposed to sell out. Yours didn't even begin to come close.

Suck it up and move on, and stop the PR spin. No one believes it any more.

Vandenh

03-23-2007, 08:03 AM

He called you Yanks cheap!!!!! ;)

DangerousDaze

03-23-2007, 08:04 AM

fitbabits

03-23-2007, 08:06 AM

He's saying that people pick up general crap off the internet and report it as fact. Are you disputing that? Or are you just pissed off that it was a Sony spokesman who said it?

/me is on a fanboy roll today.
Dude, get off your fanboy soapbox. You're crushing the damn thing. :)

Read the whole article. Granted, some places will publish any old garbage and report it as fact, but to tar the whole system like that is very much sour grapes. Once again Sony is blaming everyone but themselves for their own shortcomings.

Goronmon

03-23-2007, 08:08 AM

Fit, did you just dupe your own newspost?

http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27218

Karmakin

03-23-2007, 08:08 AM

Here's what I get out of it.

That they believe their own hype.

They don't need the installed base to get the games. Games are passe..people only buy a handful of them anyway. People want to communicate and watch movies in hi-def, and buy music online, and all those other things. So they'll sell systems as people find and desire the entertainment center..and as for having a diverse library of games to play..well..there's so many more entertainment options with the PS3..why do you want to play games all the time?

It's at the point where I think that Sony really has taken themselves out of the console race. They're not competing with Nintendo and Microsoft in regards to playing games, they're marketing a living room entertainment centerpiece.

The problem, is that entertainment centerpieces of this type have never really been that popular. And if one DOES strike fire, smart money would be on AppleTV, and not the PS3.

fitbabits

03-23-2007, 08:10 AM

Fit, did you just dupe your own newspost?

http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27218
Kinda and not really. While both comments appear to have originated from the same interview, yesterday's news didn't reflect the same content this one does re: the "lazy" journalism. :confused:

Venkman

03-23-2007, 08:10 AM

This quote:

Nowadays, with how the media works, not only does information fly around at the speed of light, so does mis-information. With blogs on the increase, people's thought processes are transferred from one place to another and picked up by people who might be lazy when it comes to finding out whether something is true or not. The old adage of never let the truth get in the way of a good story is probably more prevalent than it has been before.

You also have to remember that we're one of the most cynical nations on the planet and even if you're telling people the absolute truth they doubt whether that information is real or not.

is the absolute truth, at least here in the US. It may sound obnoxious but I think he's right.

Gott

03-23-2007, 08:10 AM

"And if you're not prepared to take risks I don't think you're really worthy of getting the crown at the end."

Does anyone really get a "crown in the end"? It is more like Miss America where you wear a crown for a couple of years and then hand it off to a younger sleeker more attractive model.

Everything sony says reeks of either desperation or arrogance. Are they this dumb to keep making this mistake over and over and over?

fitbabits

03-23-2007, 08:12 AM

is the absolute truth, at least here in the US. It may sound obnoxious but I think he's right.
But he's generalizing it greatly. It's like saying everyone who owns 'item x' is a dummy - some are, but most are not. Or like saying all soccer fans are hooligans. You see what I mean?

Crenor

03-23-2007, 08:12 AM

It's still all talk, show me anything that proves the value of the PS3 as a Console. Everything so far proves it's a good Blu-Ray Movie player, but not a great console.

Gorvi

03-23-2007, 08:12 AM

He does make some valid points, but comes off as being an ass in places. Oh, well, at least it's not nearly as bad as the arrogant crap they normally come up with.

Skyelan

03-23-2007, 08:13 AM

This quote:

is the absolute truth, at least here in the US. It may sound obnoxious but I think he's right.

Hey, I'll tell you why no one believes them, and it sure as fuck aint the media and journalism.

It's their own lies. It's their fake shill blog.

They've strung together such a web of lies (Watch me get jumped on for being a sissy and complaining about how they lied) and now they're claiming all the distrust is the cynical country's fault.

Nice. :rolleyes:

Kamalot

03-23-2007, 08:14 AM

He's saying that people pick up general crap off the internet and report it as fact. Are you disputing that?
His company is also known for setting up fake sites specifically for spreading such misinformation. Not only that, but the Sony executives SPEAK such misinformation straight to news sources where it is reported as fact and spread all around the world at the speed of light.

Yeah, lies eventually catch up with the liar to haunt them.

Johan

03-23-2007, 08:16 AM

I didn't find the interview, or his comments, terribly obnoxious.

/this coming from someone (me) who would smack 'em around if it was deserved; which it usually is, with Sony.

lockwoodx

03-23-2007, 08:17 AM

kid cabelgo

03-23-2007, 08:21 AM

I didn't find the interview, or his comments, terribly obnoxious.

/this coming from someone (me) who would smack 'em around if it was deserved; which it usually is, with Sony.

No doubt. I remember your posts from the previous Sony Exec quote!

Such rage....such unbridled rage! :eek:

Roc Ingersol

03-23-2007, 08:23 AM

No more obnoxious than usual.

The only new point (amongst the standard PR line) is that he called bloggers lazy rumor aggregators -- which they are, for the most part.

Karmakin

03-23-2007, 08:24 AM

There's a simple concept that's overlooked way too often in our society.

Good faith vs. Bad faith.

People see the hijinks the 360 team pulled for the launch, and we laugh. Because we think while they're looking to profit, of course, that more or less they're trustworthy. They're acting in good faith. Nintendo is the same way, at least over the last few years or so. They used to have a lot of bad faith karma, but that's pretty much gone at this point. A change in leadership and direction can do that pretty quickly :)

Sony, they're wallowing in bad faith right now. So every comment is assumed to be insulting to our intelligence. Even when they are not. For the record, I didn't think that interview was too bad. My criticism remains, that every day I think a bit more that the PS3 is going to be a massive failure because Sony believes their own hype, but that's a different story. But the interview was typical corporate upbeat, positive speech. Nothing wrong there.

But Sony are not being ill-put upon by the perception of bad faith. They've earned every little bit of it (and probably more-so). And if they want to change that, they're going to have to work really hard at it.

Itchyeyes

03-23-2007, 08:27 AM

What I get tired of with practically all of Sony's PR today is that it's all just meaningless marketing tripe. For instance:
All of those things are part of moving from the PlayStation 2 era to the PlayStation 3 and leaving behind all of the middle products that are in the market place right now, which clearly don't compare in terms of technical prowess.
This sentence is completely meaningless. He's arbitrarily defining "eras" by his own product. Then he goes on to say that their competitors don't meet whatever set of qualifications he has to achieve this arbitrary definition. He doesn't say how they don't meet them; he doesn't even say what they are. He just states it as if it's some sort of inherent truth that proves itself.

Sony continually defines this pedestal to put themselves. They talk about how their competitors don't measure up without ever giving the slightest bit of explanation as to how. We're all just supposed to swallow the party line and nod our heads in agreement.

Tell me something that will get me excited. Tell me about something that your product can do that others can't. Give me a reason, any reason, to want your product instead someone else's. Don't just tell me that I should, tell me why I should. Because until you do, it's just meaningless marketing drivel to me.

fitbabits

03-23-2007, 08:28 AM

For the record, the reason I said obnoxious is because he's lumping places like Evil Avatar in with those less scrupulous sites out there. I take it a little more personally, I guess.

GodFather

03-23-2007, 08:29 AM

I just am really hoping the PS3 tanks in every way possible, one company being at the top this long isnt so great, and they need some serious humbling.

Gorvi

03-23-2007, 08:30 AM

For the record, the reason I said obnoxious is because he's lumping places like Evil Avatar in with those less scrupulous sites out there. I take it a little more personally, I guess.
Well, he didn't call out EvAv by name, he was saying bloggers in general. You have to admit, there is a lot of less than accurate stuff put out there by the blogging community as a whole, EvAv is more of an exception to the rule.

Kamalot

03-23-2007, 08:34 AM

Well, he didn't call out EvAv by name, he was saying bloggers in general. You have to admit, there is a lot of less than accurate stuff put out there by the blogging community as a whole, EvAv is more of an exception to the rule.
I'm still flabbergasted that he could even blame blogs or the Internet for misinformation. Sony has a well-known track record for spreading lies and misinformation, then sometimes even use the Internet and Blogs to do it!

He's simply a whiny bitch that his lies aren't the ones being listened to, and that free speech blogs have nothing to fear from calling Sony on their bullshit. They can't bully blogs (even K0taku proves this) the way they can bully traditional media groups, and I bet this pisses off Sony to no end.

Chaos Machine

03-23-2007, 08:34 AM

heres the paraphrasing of that statement

"the media says our console is shit! you are all a bunch of cynical fucks who dont understand innovation even when we cram it up your ass! we are getting picked on cause we are the market leaders!!!"

as he speeds by driving a whambulance.

fitbabits

03-23-2007, 08:36 AM

Well, he didn't call out EvAv by name, he was saying bloggers in general. You have to admit, there is a lot of less than accurate stuff put out there by the blogging community as a whole, EvAv is more of an exception to the rule.
I know he didn't, but EvAv is part of the whole. As I've said, there are a lot of places out there which really should be ashamed of themselves for their contributions to the industry, but to generalize in such a way is, to me, a total cop out. It's about time Sony started to take responsibility for their own missteps and looked to themselves instead of blaming everyone else. Remember also that David Karraker said some time ago that Sony was making an effort to reach out to bloggers and make them feel like a welcome and important part of the industry.

One final thing - is he counting Three Speech (http://www.threespeech.com/) in there as well?

bapenguin

03-23-2007, 08:36 AM

The other half to this equation is to simply put down rumors instead of commenting with the "We don't comment on rumors or speculation" everytime someone asks PR something.

Then rumors get squashed quicker. Journalists aren't the only one that are lazy in this aspect, company's PR is. And that's ANY company, not just Sony.

Gorvi

03-23-2007, 08:37 AM

I'm still flabbergasted that he could even blame blogs or the Internet for misinformation. Sony has a well-known track record for spreading lies and misinformation, then sometimes even use the Internet and Blogs to do it!

He's simply a whiny bitch that his lies aren't the ones being listened to, and that free speech blogs have nothing to fear from calling Sony on their bullshit. They can't bully blogs (even K0taku proves this) the way they can bully traditional media groups, and I bet this pisses off Sony to no end.
Nice way to take a quote, then talk about something completely different! Now that's the Kamalot way. Damn, man, we all know Sony has said more than their fair of bullshit statements. That doesn't change the fact that the blogging community as a whole (EvAv, among others, excluded) does not have the best track record for responsable journalism. Those are two completely seperate things.

Skyelan

03-23-2007, 08:37 AM

Ugh, I know I just flew off the handle, but christ.

They may not be saying all that much different from normal, but the fact of what they're saying it in responce to just completely blows my mind, even for Sony.

They're taking that disaster of their own creation and pinning it on EVERYONE else, claiming every scapegoat imaginable, and actually accusing the general concensus that it was a poor launch on FIBBING JOURNALISTS.

And to think there are people who can't see what's so frustrating about Sony being full of shit, then blaming EVERYONE ELSE for spreading filthy mistruths.

I don't know why, but this is just striking me as far more bat-shit ludicrous than other times.

Edit: Gorvi, suggesting that it's 'twisting' anything requires a moment of thought.

If that was NOT what he meant, why bring it up? If he was not bald-faced implying that 'these supposed problems exist because of shoddy fibbing journalism' why the hell even mention it?

I'm curious, because I can't imagine what else he could mean by that.

And all while implying that the launch was comparable to a swan's grace. Unbelievable.

webrunner

03-23-2007, 08:38 AM

In order to be "market leader" you actually have to lead the market.

Being in last place by profits, sales, and order of release isn't leading.

Chaos Machine

03-23-2007, 08:39 AM

honestly he doesnt have a right to complain due to the alliwantforchristmassisapsp debacle.

fitbabits

03-23-2007, 08:40 AM

Nice way to take a quote, then talk about something completely different! Now that's the Kamalot way. Damn, man, we all know Sony has said more than their fair of bullshit statements. That doesn't change the fact that the blogging community as a whole (EvAv, among others, excluded) does not have the best track record for responsable journalism. Those are two completely seperate things.
Can we please stop with the whole "Kamalot way", "Gorvi way", "Siraris way"-type of characterization?

roboninja

03-23-2007, 08:41 AM

He does make some valid points, but comes off as being an ass in places. Oh, well, at least it's not nearly as bad as the arrogant crap they normally come up with.
Agreed, this seems to be the more common type of exec arrogance, rather than the insane we're super-duper arrogance we have seen a lot of recently. Rather mild by the standards they have recently set.

Kamalot

03-23-2007, 08:41 AM

Nice way to take a quote, then talk about something completely different! Now that's the Kamalot way.Nope. You were talking about misinformation coming from blogs. Sony PAYS money for companies to set up blogs with the express purpose of spreading misinformation.

Nice way to try and dodge the issue by blaming the messenger for something you don't want to hear. You must have learned from Sony, cause that's exactly what Ray Maguire tries to do in this interview.

Johan

03-23-2007, 08:42 AM

Can we please stop with the whole "Kamalot way", "Gorvi way", "Siraris way"-type of characterization?

Yes, please! It's the EvAv way or the highway! :)

fitbabits

03-23-2007, 08:44 AM

Yes, please! It's the EvAv way or the highway! :)
Har-de-har-har.

Seriously, it just leads to more nonsense than is needed. It's possible to be civil without resorting to petty characterizations. Isn't it?

Gorvi

03-23-2007, 08:45 AM

Nope. You were talking about misinformation coming from blogs. Sony PAYS money for companies to set up blogs with the express purpose of spreading misinformation.
You're absolutely right, they did. And you know what? That's bullshit and totally disrespectful to their consumer base. That still doesn't change the fact that what he was saying does hold weight, it's a valid point.

And MS doesn't exactly have their hands clean as far as bullshit blogs go either. Are we forgetting Ozymandias and his wonderful FUD about how we'll never see any games in 1080p (though even MS has a few on the 360 now), or how the PS3 was incapable of background downloading during games?

Gorvi

03-23-2007, 08:46 AM

Can we please stop with the whole "Kamalot way", "Gorvi way", "Siraris way"-type of characterization?
I appologize, that was out of line. But then again, you pointing it out is just the fitbabits way! ;)

fitbabits

03-23-2007, 08:47 AM

I appologize, that was out of line. But then again, you pointing it out is just the fitbabits way! ;)
Aye, that it is. Ya wee menace. ;)

Kamalot

03-23-2007, 08:48 AM

You're absolutely right, they did. And you know what? That's bullshit and totally disrespectful to their consumer base. That still doesn't change the fact that what he was saying does hold weight, it's a valid point.

And MS doesn't exactly have their hands clean as far as bullshit blogs go either. Are we forgetting Ozymandias and his wonderful FUD about how we'll never see any games in 1080p (though even MS has a few on the 360 now), or how the PS3 was incapable of background downloading during games?
I got a great idea. Lets call Ozymandias out on being a freaking smack-tard liar every time he posts something.

EvilAvatar is the solution to the Misinformation. Here, people are asking questions. Sometimes, they are TOUGH questions. I learn more from people here every day than I do from regular news sources in a week.

That is still no excuse for Sony executives to bitch about misinformation on the InterTubes, when they actively FUND campaigns of misinformation.

That's like Ben and Jerrys coming out and saying, "Damn Kids are getting FAT cause they eat too much Ice Cream! :eek:"

Citizen Philip

03-23-2007, 08:48 AM

He does make some valid points, but comes off as being an ass in places. Oh, well, at least it's not nearly as bad as the arrogant crap they normally come up with.

It's popular to hate Sony: you don't need to base your hate in fact or reality. You could have heard a story from a guy who knows a kid who thought he saw someone from Sony kick a dog, and people will believe it. I'd be frustrated too, as I've never considered 'the reporters who show up for this kind of event' held in particular high regard in whatever news agency they represent.

Chaos Machine

03-23-2007, 08:52 AM

bribe me with a tv and ill say sony is my personal jesus.

Gorvi

03-23-2007, 08:52 AM

That is still no excuse for Sony executives to bitch about misinformation on the InterTubes, when they actively FUND campaigns of misinformation.

That's like Ben and Jerrys coming out and saying, "Damn Kids are getting FAT cause they eat too much Ice Cream! :eek:"
Kam, you're missing the point. MS and Sony both do it. Oz's blog is how MS is doing it, and Sony does it in a very hamfisted manner. Both suck.

Kamalot

03-23-2007, 08:54 AM

Kam, you're missing the point. MS and Sony both do it. Oz's blog is how MS is doing it, and Sony does it in a very hamfisted manner. Both suck.
Please show me the articles where Microsoft executives complain about misinformation coming from the Internet.

Edit: Sony can't control the internet, and it terrifies them. They can't bully blogs by withholding privilege or access. Sony is a bully, and if they can't bully someone, they slander them.

This is an attempt to slander blogs. Sony is basically saying, 'don't trust what you read on the Internet'. Why? Cause they can't control the Internet the same way they can control traditional media outlets. If you listen to only Sony-approved media outlets, then you get the Sony lies, and that is EXACTLY what they want.

Vandenh

03-23-2007, 08:55 AM

It's popular to hate Sony: you don't need to base your hate in fact or reality

Dude.. it is even more popular to hate MS. MS has been hated on the internet for years by lots of people. The "valid points" he makes cut both ways. The fact that Sony has gotten bad press is because they have lied more and sold more PR bullshit than the others. MS and Nintendo execs seems to speak out a lot less. I think it is just the company culture at Sony that is fucked up. Too many people at manager level who shouldn't be there, who got there by bullshitting their way up instead of working their way up.

Skyelan

03-23-2007, 08:55 AM

Kam, you're missing the point. MS and Sony both do it. Oz's blog is how MS is doing it, and Sony does it in a very hamfisted manner. Both suck.

As nice, and true, as this is, what's the point in bringing it up? Microsoft isn't the one suddenly ranting about how all these supposed problems stem from journalism being meanie-heads.

I'm not saying Microsoft is justified, but it's like bringing up how Sony wasn't all that focused on online with the PS2, when the issue at hand is Nintendo not helping developers get the Gamecube online then claiming that surely no one must be interested in online gaming.

Venkman

03-23-2007, 09:00 AM

But he's generalizing it greatly. It's like saying everyone who owns 'item x' is a dummy - some are, but most are not. Or like saying all soccer fans are hooligans. You see what I mean?

I wouldn't call his quote an "attack" on the "lazy press". He's calling people on the lack of journalism on the internet.

I think from his quote, he is voiceing more of a concern that reporters at major newspapers echo all the time. And that is that many bloggers are not journalists, and have nobody to answer to if they post wrong, poorly researched, or fabricated information. And yet, blog information flies around the net REALLY fast.

From what I can tell, he is calling some journalists and some bloggers lazy for not following up on sources or calling a company for comment/confirmation.

Gamespot has a feature dedicated solely to confirming or debunking internet rumors with their sources. That is following up, at least. Even if it turns out to be wrong, they did the footwork and they can stand by the comments they got from their sources.

Gorvi

03-23-2007, 09:02 AM

As nice, and true, as this is, what's the point in bringing it up? Microsoft isn't the one suddenly ranting about how all these supposed problems stem from journalism being meanie-heads.

I'm not saying Microsoft is justified, but it's like bringing up how Sony wasn't all that focused on online with the PS2, when the issue at hand is Nintendo not helping developers get the Gamecube online then claiming that surely no one must be interested in online gaming.
My point was just that spreading lies on the internet isn't exclusive to Sony, that's all.

This is an attempt to slander blogs. Sony is basically saying, 'don't trust what you read on the Internet'. Why? Cause they can't control the Internet the same way they can control traditional media outlets. If you listen to only Sony-approved media outlets, then you get the Sony lies, and that is EXACTLY what they want.
Actually, I saw it more as them saying that they'd like to see people check their facts before believing everything they read on the internet.

And no, I can't recall anywhere offhand MS bitching about misrepresentations on the internet, but one doesn't have to do it for the other one to.

Citizen Philip

03-23-2007, 09:07 AM

Dude.. it is even more popular to hate MS. MS has been hated on the internet for years by lots of people. The "valid points" he makes cut both ways. The fact that Sony has gotten bad press is because they have lied more and sold more PR bullshit than the others. MS and Nintendo execs seems to speak out a lot less. I think it is just the company culture at Sony that is fucked up. Too many people at manager level who shouldn't be there, who got there by bullshitting their way up instead of working their way up.

I don't disagree that Sony has done a very good job of doing an exceptional bad job. I don't live to hate something, and I think it's getting stale and pointless.

I really don't care about what 'talking heads' from any company has to say about their products. The fact is, the console is out, it does the job it's suppose to and the games look good. It has some interesting features in the new future. It also happens to be more expensive.

That's it. In my book.

The rest is just a quarrelsome hatefest about nothing. A bunch of retarded bandwagon hoppers who just repeat what they've heard, a few internet crusaders out to slay Sony and fans of one console or another who have to put something down in order to feel good.

Old and Busted.

Skyelan

03-23-2007, 09:08 AM

I wouldn't call his quote an "attack" on the "lazy press". He's calling people on the lack of journalism on the internet.

I think from his quote, he is voiceing more of a concern that reporters at major newspapers echo all the time. And that is that many bloggers are not journalists, and have nobody to answer to if they post wrong, poorly researched, or fabricated information. And yet, blog information flies around the net REALLY fast.

From what I can tell, he is calling some journalists and some bloggers lazy for not following up on sources or calling a company for comment/confirmation.

Gamespot has a feature dedicated solely to confirming or debunking internet rumors with their sources. That is following up, at least. Even if it turns out to be wrong, they did the footwork and they can stand by the comments they got from their sources.

Well I can certainly see the logic in it! I mean, one of the most mind-bogglingly bad launches, and THE most if we're talking about consoles anyone would even vaguely consider buying, and he just decides to offer a stern warning to everyone out there that journalism is growing too big for its britches.

No real reason, just trying to make watercooler conversation.

He wasn't trying to make any sort of 'food for thought' point. He's trying to instill the idea that nothing bad happened at all, it's just journalism making crap up, and the PS3 is right on course... FOR ACTION!

And yes, I realize I'm being a bit of an ass and I apologize in advance (Or I'll be doing it later), but confound it I'll feel like a dick after some rest later today, so I'm going to enjoy (without crossing lines) my frustration!

Vandenh

03-23-2007, 09:11 AM

I really don't care about what 'talking heads' from any company has to say about their products

Fair enough, but this talking head is blaming the failure of his product on the bad treatement they get from the press. So you might not care, but he does.

Citizen Philip

03-23-2007, 09:24 AM

Fair enough, but this talking head is blaming the failure of his product on the bad treatement they get from the press. So you might not care, but he does.

Yes, which is why I agree with his frustration. People post unverified bullshit and because everyone loves to hate them the meme gets broadcasted and picked up.

.. and while you're at a press conference some underachiever reporter who got slagged with going to the press conference for 'footage' asks questions about a rumor that was disproved days or weeks ago.

Yes, frustrating. I can appreciate it.

Kamalot

03-23-2007, 09:28 AM

Dag-Sabot

03-23-2007, 09:29 AM

Sometimes they're behind the scenes so you'll see the grace of the swan above the water and not the rapid movement of legs beneath.
Swans don't backpedal, and they don't present CG as actual game play footage.

Venkman

03-23-2007, 09:29 AM

Well I can certainly see the logic in it! I mean, one of the most mind-bogglingly bad launches, and THE most if we're talking about consoles anyone would even vaguely consider buying, and he just decides to offer a stern warning to everyone out there that journalism is growing too big for its britches.

No real reason, just trying to make watercooler conversation.

He wasn't trying to make any sort of 'food for thought' point. He's trying to instill the idea that nothing bad happened at all, it's just journalism making crap up, and the PS3 is right on course... FOR ACTION!

And yes, I realize I'm being a bit of an ass and I apologize in advance (Or I'll be doing it later), but confound it I'll feel like a dick after some rest later today, so I'm going to enjoy (without crossing lines) my frustration!

I don't think you were being an ass. I think the Sony guy's real point gets lost somewhat due to Sony's PR past and present problems. His point is valid, but so is yours.

Skyelan

03-23-2007, 09:32 AM

Yes, which is why I agree with his frustration. People post unverified bullshit and because everyone loves to hate them the meme gets broadcasted and picked up.

.. and while you're at a press conference some underachiever reporter who got slagged with going to the press conference for 'footage' asks questions about a rumor that was disproved days or weeks ago.

Yes, frustrating. I can appreciate it.

He's not frustrated that the journalists screwed him over. He's frustrated that Sony just got a kick in the balls from consumers in the form of not caring, and so he's quickly trying to pin it on everything else to save face and assure everyone that it's all okay, and the S.S. PlayStation 3 is still the strongest and baddest ship in the fleet. Anyone who says otherwise is lying!

I'm sorry if I can't comprehend that there's ANYONE who'd believe he's just venting at the unfairities of life and ACTUALLY BELIEVES that it's not really his own company's fault for the mess...

Venkmen: Yes, my point maybe, but I was being needlessly sarcastic, non? :p

Johan

03-23-2007, 09:35 AM

Boy, we sure do get enough fiber around here!

Another day, another dump...on Sony! ;)

/yeah, yeah...they're dumping on themselves; they deserve it; they dumped on us first! Hell, I agree!!!

Swiper

03-23-2007, 09:37 AM

And MS doesn't exactly have their hands clean as far as bullshit blogs go either. Are we forgetting Ozymandias and his wonderful FUD about how we'll never see any games in 1080p (though even MS has a few on the 360 now), or how the PS3 was incapable of background downloading during games?

I hate to say this (especially since Ozymandias is more than capable of coming here and defending himself--and probably will), but you're wrong about what he said. Ozymandias NEVER said either of those things.

It just occurred to me how ironic your post is. Sony is complaining about how people accept as truth something that someone posts on the Internet, and I'm thinking that some people may have accepted as truth what you just said about Ozy. It really is ironic.

Misinformation works both ways. Sometimes it helps you. Sometimes it hurts you. Either way, it hurts the discussion, so please, let's try not to mischaracterize what someone said.

OUX

03-23-2007, 09:40 AM

This may sound out of place but the console war seems to be an anime show. MS the new to the game cocksure fighter and his comedic yet helpful Nintendo side kick are battling Sony the champion of some forgotten arena. Sony in its arrogance smirks at the two opponents taunting them that they are weak and can never defeat his power. Now in the climax of the fight MS has been landing blow after blow that Sony never believed could have come from such a young blood. Staggering back from the onslaught he never notices Nintendo positioning the boulder atop a cliff directly overhead. With a last burst of strength MS delivers an bone shattering uppercut propelling Sony (who is screaming in denial) into the rock descending towards his chibi-fear-eyed face. .......I know, I need to go find something to do

Syrinx

03-23-2007, 09:41 AM

Gorvi

03-23-2007, 09:42 AM

I hate to say this (especially since Ozymandias is more than capable of coming here and defending himself--and probably will), but you're wrong about what he said. Ozymandias NEVER said either of those things.

It just occurred to me how ironic your post is. Sony is complaining about how people accept as truth something that someone posts on the Internet, and I'm thinking that some people may have accepted as truth what you just said about Ozy. It really is ironic.

Misinformation works both ways. Sometimes it helps you. Sometimes it hurts you. Either way, it hurts the discussion, so please, let's try not to mischaracterize what someone said.
From ozymandias.com (http://ozymandias.com/)
Background Downloading:

On the PS3, when you enter a game, your downloads will be paused and queued up, to be restarted later when you exit back to the XMB. The reason for this is that the PS3 needs extra system resources (primarily memory) to do background downloading, and as such could affect game play.

New APIs were discussed which allow background downloading during less resource intensive sections of a game (such as the front end menu), but such functionality will only be considered once the 1.60 update is out the door. Even so, games would have to allocate extra memory need to be able to support this.

As far as the 1080p thing, it's pretty common knowledge what was said, he's admitted it himself.

Look, I'm not trying to bash him, he's doing his job. But he's also putting out information about the competition that isn't accurate.

Gorvi

03-23-2007, 09:44 AM

Wasn't he just commenting on this story which was written by someone else on another site?

http://www.innerbits.com/blog/2007/02/27/ps3-online-background-downloading-the-sony-way/
The point is, it's being reported as fact.

Syrinx

03-23-2007, 09:45 AM

From ozymandias.com (http://ozymandias.com/)

As far as the 1080p thing, it's pretty common knowledge what was said, he's admitted it himself.

Look, I'm not trying to bash him, he's doing his job. But he's also putting out information about the competition that isn't accurate.

You're leaving out the important detail though.. that's a quote from another page, and he placed his comment below it which you conveniently left off.

Syrinx

03-23-2007, 09:46 AM

The point is, it's being reported as fact.

I guess... if you believe everything posted on someone's blog to be factual. If you have an issue with it, go after the site who originally wrote it.

Gorvi

03-23-2007, 09:51 AM

You're leaving out the important detail though.. that's a quote from another page, and he placed his comment below it which you conveniently left off.
What, this comment?
[The Xbox is able to do this because we can use reserved memory/CPU time. From the game's perspective, it never existed in the first place, so it's never lost.]
He doesn't actually address anything about the PS3 in the comment at all, just how the 360 handles the feature. I didn't think it was relevant, but there ya go.

EDIT : I'm done with this by the way. This has come way too close to bashing Oz as a person. I don't know him, and mean him no disrespect. This has gone way past the point I was trying to make.

Venkman

03-23-2007, 09:53 AM

I guess... if you believe everything posted on someone's blog to be factual. If you have an issue with it, go after the site who originally wrote it.

That's what the Sony guy is saying. Kudos to him for calling bullshit on blogs that do that, but boo to him for mixing that statement with more PR smoke blowing up people's asses.

Citizen Philip

03-23-2007, 10:01 AM

I guess... if you believe everything posted on someone's blog to be factual. If you have an issue with it, go after the site who originally wrote it.

No, my god man. The point is bullshit is reported as fact by those who can't be bothered to verify their information: whether because they are professional rivals who aren't interested, fanboys who don't care or retards who jump on the bandwagon.

You blame who jumps on the bandwagon, not the person who calls bullshit on the bandwagon.

fitbabits

03-23-2007, 10:03 AM

No, my god man. The point is bullshit is reported as fact by those who can't be bothered to verify their information: whether because they are professional rivals who aren't interested, fanboys who don't care or retards who jump on the bandwagon.

You blame who jumps on the bandwagon, not the person who calls bullshit on the bandwagon.
The bandwagon is the bullshit here. I think.

Swiper

03-23-2007, 10:03 AM

From ozymandias.com (http://ozymandias.com/)

As far as the 1080p thing, it's pretty common knowledge what was said, he's admitted it himself.

Look, I'm not trying to bash him, he's doing his job. But he's also putting out information about the competition that isn't accurate.

I still don't see where he said what you said he said. I believe he was talking about the way the PS3 worked (past tense).

As far the 1080p thing, you're wrong again.

I have yet to see any of the inaccurate information that you allude to. Again, I think it's ironic. You say you're not trying to bash him, but you are.

fitbabits

03-23-2007, 10:06 AM

I still don't see where he said what you said he said. I believe he was talking about the way the PS3 worked (past tense).

As far the 1080p thing, you're wrong again.

I have yet to see any of the inaccurate information that you allude to. Again, I think it's ironic. You say you're not trying to bash him, but you are.
Swiper - haven't seen you round the forums until now, but I wanted to say hello and welcome to EvAv!

Citizen Philip

03-23-2007, 10:11 AM

The bandwagon is the bullshit here. I think.

I'm not entirely sure which angle you are approaching from, but yes, I agree. I think.

fitbabits

03-23-2007, 10:12 AM

I'm not entirely sure which angle you are approaching from, but yes, I agree. I think.
Nor am I, so we're in agreement. I think. :)

Skyelan

03-23-2007, 10:21 AM

So, wait, Fits, is it a manure wagon?

Cause then all this makes a whole lot more sense... :confused:

Syrinx

03-23-2007, 10:35 AM

oldjadedgamer

03-23-2007, 10:51 AM

This quote:

"All the way along, we've not been a company to stand up and shout about what we're going to be doing somewhere in the future."

Reminded me of this picture:

http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20010517/ps201_02.jpg

Skyelan

03-23-2007, 10:59 AM

"All the way along, we've not been a company to stand up and shout about what we're going to be doing somewhere in the future."

Wow, I didn't catch that.

Yeah, that's the most bald-faced lie they've told yet. Classic.

Kamalot

03-23-2007, 11:03 AM

"All the way along, we've not been a company to stand up and shout about what we're going to be doing somewhere in the future."[/I]Ahahaha! That is a great quote, coming form a company that contains 2 of the world's 3 biggest Hype Machines.

RMan

03-23-2007, 11:06 AM

But he's generalizing it greatly. It's like saying everyone who owns 'item x' is a dummy - some are, but most are not. Or like saying all soccer fans are hooligans. You see what I mean?
I’m not sure how ‘might be lazy’ got translated into every journalist in your head. What he said sounds like truth as I see it, perhaps his response should have come with more self blame, but no less true and it’s certainly something that seems to have hurt the PS3 a great deal (considering the response from people who actually own it seems very positive). Honestly, your reaction to his statement seems to, if anything, support his general point, but I’m curious how you would state the same point since it seems you agree that some journalists should be ashamed of themselves.

IMO, if this same statement came from a poster on this site instead of a Sony rep or a response to the PS3, it would have gotten complete agreement from practically everyone.

Citizen Philip

03-23-2007, 11:15 AM

Any my point was, the "facts" attributed to Ozy weren't even written by him. He was commenting on something written at another site.

If I read on another site that you were a pedophile, and I posted on my website about how much I don't like pedophiles: specifically the crimes reported about you on another website. You shouldn't get mad at me, because I didn't write the first article?

That I am totally off the hook?

DubiousQuality

03-23-2007, 11:17 AM

The thing is, sure all 3 aren't always exactly up front. Whats most ironic though is Sony is the least upfront and more often than not flat out lies on a regular basis, yet heres another Sony PR guy blaming everyone else on the internet for their issues selling the PS3.

Its classic Sony, its everyone elses fault with their misinformation! Meanwhile 90% of what Sony puts out on a regular basis is complete misinformation to begin with.

It amazes me that you SDF guys even bother anymore, Sony does a good enough job on their own making themselves look like the laughing stock of the industry that they are at the moment. They really don't need your help at this point I don't think.

Boris

03-23-2007, 11:21 AM

Poor Phil Harrison must have been weeping into his cornflakes this morning:

PS3’s French debut a flop: 95% of units stay on shelves (http://tech.monstersandcritics.com/news/article_1282028.php/PS3%92s_French_debut_a_flop_95__of_units_stay_on_s helves_)

Syrinx

03-23-2007, 11:26 AM

If I read on another site that you were a pedophile, and I posted on my website about how much I don't like pedophiles: specifically the crimes reported about you on another website. You shouldn't get mad at me, because I didn't write the first article?

That I am totally off the hook?

Sure I'd get mad at you, but I'm also not going to say you wrote the original article. You're putting way too much into this.

oldjadedgamer

03-23-2007, 11:28 AM

This quote:

"All the way along, we've not been a company to stand up and shout about what we're going to be doing somewhere in the future."

Also, reminded me of this picture:

http://ps3media.ign.com/ps3/image/article/635/635630/ps-meeting-2005-sonys-ps3-schedule-20050721020718112.jpg

Devilturnip

03-23-2007, 11:30 AM

Personally, I like how everything can be linked to Sony being the market leader. Bad press? It's because they're the market leader. Higher price? Market leader. Last to release? Market leader.

This kind of PR spin I can do without.

Venkman

03-23-2007, 11:36 AM

I’m not sure how ‘might be lazy’ got translated into every journalist in your head. What he said sounds like truth as I see it, perhaps his response should have come with more self blame, but no less true and it’s certainly something that seems to have hurt the PS3 a great deal (considering the response from people who actually own it seems very positive). Honestly, your reaction to his statement seems to, if anything, support his general point, but I’m curious how you would state the same point since it seems you agree that some journalists should be ashamed of themselves.

IMO, if this same statement came from a poster on this site instead of a Sony rep or a response to the PS3, it would have gotten complete agreement from practically everyone.

The media, or anyone else for that matter, never likes being told by another person in the media they are doing something wrong.

I've previously said on this forum a couple of the headlines on EvAv were "tabloid jounalism", but then again, are the front page items on this site news from a journalist? Or are they simply a collection of items from the web with their own style thrown in because they are enthusiastic about an industry?

I can't really blame anyone for the latter. Nor can I blame the Sony guy for getting annoyed when people treat such threads and discussions as fact.

Citizen Philip

03-23-2007, 11:37 AM

Sure I'd get mad at you, but I'm also not going to say you wrote the original article. You're putting way too much into this.

I'm trying to understand which part of accountability or responsibility to report the truth didn't become an issue provided you didn't say it first.

I heard this on the internet: This thread is filled with people who keep posting more bullshit in-between interesting dialog: on this website www.madeupstuff.com they are paid by Microsoft, they proved it to be true.