View Full Version : Seagate to provide hard drives for Xbox 360 systems
Everlost_MI
06-09-2005, 07:22 PM
TeamXbox (http://www.teamxbox.com/) has the scoop (http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/8487/Seagate-to-Supply-Hard-Drives-for-Xbox-360/) that Seagate again has become the hard drive supplier of choice for Microsoft in the Xbox 360 systems. Seagate won the initial contract to be the original Xbox hard drive provider in 2001. The hard drive that will be used in the Xbox 360 is the LD25 Series 2.5-inch model. (http://www.seagate.com/cda/newsinfo/newsroom/releases/article/0,1121,2731,00.html)
*Legion*
06-09-2005, 07:25 PM
Good. Seagate drives are bueno.
Redline
06-09-2005, 07:31 PM
Good. Seagate drives are bueno.
Yeah, I've only ever had two get bad sectors on me. Not bad!! :D
Kelegacy
06-09-2005, 07:57 PM
The Sony HDD will RULE ALL!!
What the hell is Sony thinking? Memory cards again? Ugh, that's a kick in the nuts for this long time fan.
Chandler
06-09-2005, 08:01 PM
Well just recently Ken Kutaragi said that PS3 will come preinstalled with Linux, so... that could be hinting at a HDD.
mkelehan
06-09-2005, 08:06 PM
Glad it wasn't Thompson.
Pumped'Up
06-09-2005, 08:18 PM
seagate drives are fast. but they're damn loud...combined with the cpu fan noise, one can predict that the 360 will sould like an airplane engine.
riposte101
06-09-2005, 08:22 PM
Well just recently Ken Kutaragi said that PS3 will come preinstalled with Linux, so... that could be hinting at a HDD.
It's an add on hdd. The PS3 will not have a standard HDD.
Reanimated
06-09-2005, 08:25 PM
Well just recently Ken Kutaragi said that PS3 will come preinstalled with Linux, so... that could be hinting at a HDD.
No what he ACTUALLY said is that PS3 will have an OPTIONAL HDD and that there will be a Linux kit for PS3 like there was for PS2. Sony is not making the hard drive standard. It will be an add-on... again.
http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2005/0609/kaigai187.htm
Translated:
"As for PLAYSTATION 3, although they are that much specifications, the local HDD has not been recorded with default. Why being?
< Ken Kutaragi> The HDD does not place with default. When you say, why, however much placing, it is not enough, because. Next already not to be wrong network drive."
Sony is SUPPOSEDLY going with server storage for local machines. Of course only people with broadband, and one would assume their "Live" service, will have access to this storage. One could reasonably assume that they'll be selling hard drive add-ons just as they did with the PS3. In any event, the PS3 will not ship with a hard drive.
DriveALW
06-09-2005, 08:36 PM
Wow, that is some funny-ass translation. All of your base, etc. etc.
I'm wondering how fast these harddrives are. As in how many MB/s? The site says they run at 5400rpm which is slower than a typical PC harddrive. I'd like to think that having a harddrive might improve load times but i'm skeptical now.
Tyrant
06-09-2005, 08:50 PM
Glad it wasn't Thompson.
They don't make hard drives. They make the horrible DVD drives in the Xbox though.
seagate drives are fast. but they're damn loud...combined with the cpu fan noise, one can predict that the 360 will sould like an airplane engine.
Uh...Seagates are pretty much the quietest desktop drives around. Check pretty much any review to confirm this. Even then, most hard drives are within a few decibels of each other when it comes to noise. I apologize for going against your "PS3RULEZ !!1 XBOX?! MOAR LIEK XBUNK" agenda, but the stupidity is unbearable.
Hg-203
06-09-2005, 08:50 PM
a 5400 rpm hd is still much faster then a CD, 5400rpm hd's where the standard 2 or 3 years ago, 7200 rpm are the newer standard now though, you should still be able to pick up 54000 rpm hd’s really easily still. IIRC the Xbox hd is 5400 rpm
TrackZero
06-09-2005, 08:57 PM
Good. Seagate drives are bueno.
Agreed, I honestly haven't had any real problems with Seagate of late. The last time I did was back in 1995, so I suppose this is a good choice.
a 5400 rpm hd is still much faster then a CD, 5400rpm hd's where the standard 2 or 3 years ago, 7200 rpm are the newer standard now though, you should still be able to pick up 54000 rpm hd’s really easily still. IIRC the Xbox hd is 5400 rpm
I rather enjoy my 10,000 RPM hard drive.
I still don't understand why they're going with a 2.5inch drive, the Xbox itself is easily large enough for a 3.5inch HD slot, they aren't too big. 3.5inch HD's offer far more space and performance for the price ratio.
Still, Seagate is a good brand, never had a single error with my seagate drive, admittedly, i've only had the thing for a few months.
Anyway, A harddrive is far better than no harddrive. It's sad that sony's using the PS3 as yet another way to force you to buy Duo sticks. At least even the revolution has 512 megs of flash memory.
Babbster
06-09-2005, 09:40 PM
There are two good reasons for going 2.5" and 5,400 RPM: Noise and temperature. Going 3.5" and 7,200 RPM would mean a louder hard drive and increased temperatures inside the box. MS is using passive cooling on their CPUs, so that reduces the potential noise of the console as well.
Short version: It's all good.
Gheritt
06-09-2005, 09:46 PM
I rather enjoy my 10,000 RPM hard drive.
I still don't understand why they're going with a 2.5inch drive, the Xbox itself is easily large enough for a 3.5inch HD slot
Presumably they want to fit other things inside the Xbox 360 case too. Just because the case can fit a 3.5inch HD inside doesn't mean that there is room inside for it
It may be using passive cooling on the CPU (Uses heatpipes to my knowledge), but it has dual 60 (or 80?)mm exhaust fans in the back of the system. Not exactly the quietest option. (not a clue at what RPM they spin at)
Likewise, the harddrive is on top of the system, and therefore completely exposed to the room temperature air, it should have absolutely no worries about overheating. It takes a lot of effort to overheat a harddrive.
I think that speed, size, and cost would outdo the need for "quietness" anyway. Espicially in a massproduction settings. 20 gig Ipods use 2.5inch drives (I believe) and they still cost around $300.
Labtop harddrives start at around $60 for 20 gigs (5400rpm) (and quickly escalate into $80 for 40 gigs) meanwhile, desktops have $60 for 80 gigs, and quickly escalate into $80 for 160 gigs. (7200rpm) (Likewise, 250 gigs are only about $115 these days)
I just don't see the point.
Fitting other things inside the case?
Take a look inside your computer case - lots of empty space.
Now, Even in a thin form mini-tower setup like the xbox360 has, Its still just a Processer on a motherboard with a DVD drive and ports - Theres room for a 3.5inch slot, even if it was just a minor indention somewhere.
If one can find me a picture of the inside of an xbox 360, i'd prove it to you.
(Furthermore, the original PS2 had room for a 3.5inch harddrive)
31 Flavas
06-09-2005, 10:02 PM
Now, Even in a thin form mini-tower setup like the xbox360 has, Its still just a Processer on a motherboard with a DVD drive and ports - Theres room for a 3.5inch slot, even if it was just a minor indention somewhere.I dunno, just a guess, but maybe they want to limit the hacking ability of the x360. A 2.5in drive isn't necessarily hard to come by, but you can't just walk into best buy and buy a new hdd when a hack is discovered to allow different hdd. And what is the price/availabilty of large capacity 2.5in hdd?
Hg-203
06-09-2005, 10:12 PM
From what I understand about console games and how the Xbox works a hd won’t improve load times at all, the textures aren’t loaded onto the HD when you put a cd in so it really wouldn’t affect it unless you wanna sit around for a good 4 or 5 minutes for the game to boot up moving all the textures from the cd/dvd to the HD. I know people who will mod the Xbox 360’s will wanna put in the fastest biggest hard drives they can because it will affect their load speeds, but for the normal user will still load all his games off the cd/dvd so it wont affect load times with a HD or without.
Oh also from what I remember Seagate is the only company that offers a 5 year warranty, most offer 1 year I think…
edit:
Oh another reason that they are probably using the 5400 rpm is that the only company that makes a 7200 rpm laptop HD, that I know of, is Hitachi. Laptop HD’s run softer, can take more abuse, and less power conception and therefore less heat.
No what he ACTUALLY said is that PS3 will have an OPTIONAL HDD and that there will be a Linux kit for PS3 like there was for PS2.
yesh, that's the technical possibilties (sic?) playstation ken was referring to when comparing the 360 to the ps3 in yesterday's gaming news. :)
Tyrant
06-09-2005, 10:29 PM
From what I understand about console games and how the Xbox works a hd won’t improve load times at all, the textures aren’t loaded onto the HD when you put a cd in so it really wouldn’t affect it unless you wanna sit around for a good 4 or 5 minutes for the game to boot up moving all the textures from the cd/dvd to the HD.
That's not true. The Xbox HD is set up to have 3 700-ish meg partitions to store and stream data from games. Have you ever noticed how some games won't let you bypass the company videos at startup, especially if you played a few other games in between? That's because temporary data is being saved to the HD to speed up access to various game assets.
Babbster
06-09-2005, 10:30 PM
It may be using passive cooling on the CPU (Uses heatpipes to my knowledge), but it has dual 60 (or 80?)mm exhaust fans in the back of the system. Not exactly the quietest option. (not a clue at what RPM they spin at)
I think you'd need an exhaust fan regardless because while the 2.5" 5,400 RPM drive generates less heat than other bigger, faster drives it still generates heat (as do several other components). My point was merely that they're trying to get rid of CPU fans which are often loud.
Likewise, the harddrive is on top of the system, and therefore completely exposed to the room temperature air, it should have absolutely no worries about overheating. It takes a lot of effort to overheat a harddrive.
It's less a question of overheating the hard drive itself and more a question of overheating other components inside the case. Ask TiVo hackers, for example, how well 7,200-RPM drives work out heat-wise in a relatively open, uncomplicated system (TiVos have even larger cases than the 360).
I think that speed, size, and cost would outdo the need for "quietness" anyway. Espicially in a massproduction settings. 20 gig Ipods use 2.5inch drives (I believe) and they still cost around $300.
First off, speed isn't that big a deal. TiVos and ReplayTVs, for example, use 5,400-RPM drives in all their products and they do just fine even with highly HD-intensive tasks (encoding and saving one program while simultaneously reading and decoding another). Now, if we were taking X360 game DVDs, installing them to the hard drive and then playing them from there, increasing HD speed might significantly impact performance. Since we won't be doing that, it's just not important. Oh, and a final correction on this part of your post: iPods use Toshiba 1.8" drives - much more expensive than regular notebook drives.
A bunch of unattributed HD cost numbers that don't mean anything, replaced by Babbster with this sentence.
Reducing cost isn't Microsoft's main priority. Even if it was, without knowing the kind of discounts they're getting, there's no way to judge their HD decision on that basis. I will note that for gaming purposes, who care's about getting higher capacity? Heck, I've only got a 40GB HD in my PC right now. I certainly don't know why I'd need a lot of space available on my gaming console...
I'll cut through the rest of the BS and just say this: You seem to be judging MS's decision in this matter on what you would do if you were building a PC. But MS isn't building a PC. They're building a game console. They also have plenty of money to spend, and they've demonstrated a willingness to spend it. To summarize:
a) Cost. It's MS, they don't care.
b) Speed. You're not playing games directly off the hard drive anyway, so why does it need to be faster?
c) Temperature. Smaller, lower RPM = cooler. For devices like this, the cooler the better.
d) Noise. It may not be a priority for you, but it's certainly a priority for me. Heck, I find the noise of a disc drive intrusive when I'm playing a game, and this necessitates cranking the volume on the ole Yamaha so it doesn't bother me.
I have a 160 gig (7200rpm 8mb cache) Harddrive in my PS2.
(HDloader ^_^). It's over half filled.
Now, I know I won't be ripping entire DVD games to my Xbox, but damn do I love being able to do it for my PS2.
In my computer, I have a 10,000rpm WD raptor (74 gigs) and a 160 gig Seagate 7200.7
There is a definate decrease in load times when using my Raptor. There's an increase in performance overall when using that beauty. I've used labtops, the slower RPM Loads even the most simple of commands slower (such as a browser or anytime you need to grab something from the swap file)
Now, I'm not stating that MS should be using a 10,000 rpm HD, but not going with a 3.5inch just seems like a waste of money and planning on both ends. Your supposed to have room to rip songs to the damn thing, 20 gigs adequate? HAH. Likewise, from what MS is attempting to market the xbox360 as, the harddrive is going to have far more uses, if your going to be loading games *AND* streaming music from it, than seek time is very important, something that a 5400rpm drive lacks.
I never said that noise didn't matter, I just said that its probably going to be rare that a 3.5inch harddrive is louder than a dual pair of 80mm fans. The xbox360 has 80mm fans.
If the 20 gigs cost more for them, the cost will in some way relay back to us. Unless MS didn't learn the big mistake they had on the original xbox.
Babbster
06-09-2005, 11:14 PM
Your supposed to have room to rip songs to the damn thing, 20 gigs adequate? HAH. Likewise, from what MS is attempting to market the xbox360 as, the harddrive is going to have far more uses, if your going to be loading games *AND* streaming music from it, than seek time is very important, something that a 5400rpm drive lacks.
1. Why do you need to fill a 20-GB hard drive in a game console with music? With decent compression those 20 gigs would take forever to fill and I don't know why anyone would need their digital music collection replicated in its entirety on multiple devices anyway. If they're smart, they'll include LAN streaming (like my TiVo) and if they did I, for one, wouldn't put a single song on the X360.
2. I stream music and load games from the 5400rpm drive in my current Xbox all the time - it's not a problem. Further, even if you DID play games right from the hard drive, it's still faster than doing so from DVD...PS- The PS2 hard drive was also 5,400 RPM despite the fact that they could theoretically have sent out 7,200 RPM drives.
If the 20 gigs cost more for them, the cost will in some way relay back to us. Unless MS didn't learn the big mistake they had on the original xbox.
What big mistake? The big mistake that they had the exact same price as the PS2 throughout the Xbox's life AND included more features? They should definitely try to avoid THAT problem...
Paranoia
06-09-2005, 11:36 PM
I have a 160 gig (7200rpm 8mb cache) Harddrive in my PS2.
(HDloader ^_^).
Aha..a PS2 fanboy dissing MS for having a 20GB HDD. No suprise there.
It's over half filled.
Now, I know I won't be ripping entire DVD games to my Xbox, but damn do I love being able to do it for my PS2.
Yeah, it does make it easier to pirate games. MS is smart to avoid that.
Your supposed to have room to rip songs to the damn thing, 20 gigs adequate? HAH.
Last time I checked not everyone buys an Xbox just to rip songs. Why don't you complain about the PS3 for not having a HDD considering that damn system is suppose to be the ultimate "entertainment center".
Likewise, from what MS is attempting to market the xbox360 as, the harddrive is going to have far more uses, if your going to be loading games *AND* streaming music from it, than seek time is very important, something that a 5400rpm drive lacks.
PS3 lacks the hard drive itself. HAH!
If the 20 gigs cost more for them, the cost will in some way relay back to us. Unless MS didn't learn the big mistake they had on the original xbox.
Who is making bigger mistake here, 360 having a 20 GB HDD or PS3 with no HDD at all?
I'm not a PS2 fanboy... Nowhere near. I've had a PS2 for a total of about... A week now? (Never owned an original playstation either)
This isn't about the PS3 not having a harddrive.
I'm not attacking the xbox360 for having an HD, an HD in a console is wonderful thing.
I'm wondering why the hell it has a 2.5inch one.
I'd prefer it if you didn't take my words and put them into a completely different context.
BTW: I'm a Nintendo fan.
Adam Blue
06-09-2005, 11:59 PM
Your supposed to have room to rip songs to the damn thing, 20 gigs adequate? HAH. Likewise, from what MS is attempting to market the xbox360 as, the harddrive is going to have far more uses, if your going to be loading games *AND* streaming music from it, than seek time is very important, something that a 5400rpm drive lacks.
That's why the X360 will let you plug in your MP3 player to stream music. SO there's 20 gigs for everything else. Next...
Paranoia
06-09-2005, 11:59 PM
I'm wondering why the hell it has a 2.5inch one.
Why is it 2.5 inch is a "hell" of a problem?
Adewade
06-10-2005, 12:06 AM
When a guy named 'Paranoia' doesn't see the problem here...
carneconcarne
06-10-2005, 12:10 AM
check it, the smaller a hd is, the lower the seek times. In many instances a smaller hard drive can outperform a larger one, even with lower rpms. maybe, i'm guessing.
Carnifex
06-10-2005, 03:59 AM
I fail to see how the drive being 2.5" is a problem. 100 GB drives are readily available here. Sure, they are not as large as 3.5" drives, but we're talking about a console here, not a replacement for your PC or fileserver. Network streaming should also be possible?
The benefits of 2.5" drives are many, as mentioned earlier in this thread. Also keep in mind that the drives belong to Seagate's CE line of drives, which are optimized for streaming media at low noise and temperature levels. Ideal for DVR boxes, consoles, etc. This may also mean their performance is not directly comparable to the more general purpose drives, assuming they have made modifications to seeking algorithms and such.
carneconcarne:
Yeah, I've read about that. I've also heard that many 10k rpm drives actually have 2.5" discs inside. (I'm not stating that as fact though)
Knite
06-10-2005, 07:42 AM
I'm amazed no one mentioned that the HARD DRIVE IS TECHNICALLY EXTERNAL. And doesn't sit in the case. So it doesn't matter HOW much damn room there is in the case, the hard drive sits on the outside. I'm sure they could make the external slot fit a 3.5" Hard Drive, but then it would be like seeing Carmen Electra in a string bikini with a softball sized tumor hanging off her skull. Kinda ruins the asthetic, don't you think?
netcraazzy
06-10-2005, 07:58 AM
I'm amazed no one mentioned that the HARD DRIVE IS TECHNICALLY EXTERNAL. And doesn't sit in the case. So it doesn't matter HOW much damn room there is in the case, the hard drive sits on the outside. I'm sure they could make the external slot fit a 3.5" Hard Drive, but then it would be like seeing Carmen Electra in a string bikini with a softball sized tumor hanging off her skull. Kinda ruins the asthetic, don't you think?
Ding Ding Ding, I think we have a winner. I think aesthetics has a lot to do with the decision. This is a mainstream consumer electronics device, not a big bulky desktop PC, looks count for a lot. I have a feeling that the designers over at MS decided that the slightly worse performance of a notebook drive did not outweigh the benefits of having a smaller, quieter, cooler, sleeker and more portable hard drive. Let's dwell on the portable factor for a moment though. Didn't MS mention at some point that they were considering offering upgrades for the hard drive? The fact that the drive is external suggests that this would be relatively easy. I also think it would be cool to be able to take your hard drive over to your friends house and plug it into his Xbox, that way you can play all your save games and downloaded content and stuff. A smaller hard drive would make this easier.
*Legion*
06-10-2005, 10:48 AM
Your supposed to have room to rip songs to the damn thing, 20 gigs adequate?
No - you're supposed to plug your iPod or other portable music player in.
You can rip music to the HD but that's not the only or preferred way to get custom soundtracks.
Zanzibar
06-10-2005, 03:16 PM
I'm amazed no one mentioned that the HARD DRIVE IS TECHNICALLY EXTERNAL. And doesn't sit in the case. So it doesn't matter HOW much damn room there is in the case, the hard drive sits on the outside. I'm sure they could make the external slot fit a 3.5" Hard Drive, but then it would be like seeing Carmen Electra in a string bikini with a softball sized tumor hanging off her skull. Kinda ruins the asthetic, don't you think?
If Carmen Electra was in a bikini, the only way I'd notice a tumor of ANY size would be if it hung down and blocked my view of her sweet, sweet bod.
mister_slim
06-10-2005, 09:03 PM
From what I understand about console games and how the Xbox works a hd won’t improve load times at all, the textures aren’t loaded onto the HD when you put a cd in so it really wouldn’t affect it unless you wanna sit around for a good 4 or 5 minutes for the game to boot up moving all the textures from the cd/dvd to the HD.
Games do use HD caches. The first time you play a game it will load info on to your hard drive. If I remember correctly, Halo used about 500 megs.
What big mistake? The big mistake that they had the exact same price as the PS2 throughout the Xbox's life AND included more features? They should definitely try to avoid THAT problem...
I think losing large amounts of money on the Xbox could be considered a mistake. If they repeat that it will definitely be a mistake.
Babbster
06-10-2005, 09:54 PM
I think losing large amounts of money on the Xbox could be considered a mistake. If they repeat that it will definitely be a mistake.
It MAY have been a mistake for Microsoft's bottom line but it had no negative effect on consumers. Wouldn't that be the angle from which the people on a forum like this should approach the situation?
mister_slim
06-10-2005, 10:16 PM
It MAY have been a mistake for Microsoft's bottom line but it had no negative effect on consumers. Wouldn't that be the angle from which the people on a forum like this should approach the situation?
Short-term or long-term perspective? Halo-fanatic googles or MS-hater googles?
Babbster
06-11-2005, 01:20 AM
Short-term or long-term perspective? Halo-fanatic googles or MS-hater googles?
I don't know about googles, but in terms of goggles I'd go with "gamer goggles." In other words, if Microsoft's losses don't impact me directly (like losing another console maker), I don't care if they lose $50, $150 or $300 a pop on their products. You don't have to be a fanboy to ignore irrelevancies.
Chandler
06-11-2005, 04:16 PM
No - you're supposed to plug your iPod or other portable music player in.
You can rip music to the HD but that's not the only or preferred way to get custom soundtracks.
So you can play mp3s from the ipod in PS3 games...so custom soundtracks is not enough reason to put in a HDD.
TrackZero
06-11-2005, 04:45 PM
So you can play mp3s from the ipod in PS3 games...so custom soundtracks is not enough reason to put in a HDD.
Mmmm, so now you need to buy an iPod to have mp3s in your PS3 games? Wow, yeah, that's no reason to have them include a HDD. LOL. Want a computer to go along with that iPod as well?
mister_slim
06-11-2005, 08:52 PM
I don't know about googles, but in terms of goggles I'd go with "gamer goggles." In other words, if Microsoft's losses don't impact me directly (like losing another console maker), I don't care if they lose $50, $150 or $300 a pop on their products. You don't have to be a fanboy to ignore irrelevancies.
Google is destroying my ability to spell. Damn. Well, to me, when a company spends a large amount of money entering a market they expect to make that money back somehow. In this case, that would be by charging more for games or by slowing product development (NES, PS2, IE). Eventually MS has to show some benefits to their shareholders. A money hole is not a benefit. They don't have the game developers to make a lot of money back through software sales. They've slashed third party licenses as much as they can. I guess maybe the Live Marketplace?
bobbler
06-11-2005, 09:08 PM
Google is destroying my ability to spell. Damn. Well, to me, when a company spends a large amount of money entering a market they expect to make that money back somehow. In this case, that would be by charging more for games or by slowing product development (NES, PS2, IE). Eventually MS has to show some benefits to their shareholders. A money hole is not a benefit. They don't have the game developers to make a lot of money back through software sales. They've slashed third party licenses as much as they can. I guess maybe the Live Marketplace?
Might as well enjoy it while it lasts though ;)
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