World of Warcraft Battlegrounds Released!

[Evil Avatar]

The new v1.5.0 patch file is now available for Blizzard's World of Warcraft, adding in the highly anticipated Battlegrounds combat environment.

Battlegrounds arrive!

The Warsong Gulch and Alterac Valley battlegrounds are now available.

The Warsong Gulch entrances may be found in the northern Barrens near the Mor'Shan Rampart (Horde) and south of Silverwing Outpost in Ashenvale (Alliance). The Alterac Valley entrances may be found east of Sofera's Naze in Alterac (Horde), and in the Headlands of Alterac (Alliance).Just restart your World of Warcraft client to get the patch via BitTorrent.

I'm sure this patch will also come with the usual two days of server downtime.

Edit: Just as I predicted, all servers are down.

[Goronmon]

This almost makes me want to resubscribe to give it a try...but then again, that would involve playing the rest of the game as well, so its probably not that good of an idea ;)

[netcraazzy]

Sweet Jesus, it took long enough considering this was mentioned in the manual. Well I guess now I have a reason to play at least a little bit longer.

[I[HATE]Everything]

Sweet Jesus, it took long enough considering this was mentioned in the manual. Well I guess now I have a reason to play at least a little bit longer.

Yeah, me too. Right up until BF2 is released and then I have a new addiction. :D

[Genital Eclipse]

I prefer pepsi

[Wolfgang]

Edit: Just as I predicted, all servers are down.

You mean down during the announced and scheduled every week down time?

That is just bad reporting. Every Tuesday the servers are down from 8am to 2pm EST (sometimes 3pm).

[Oblivion]

Cola>pepsi. no contest.

[Undertakr]

Yay! Unbalanced PVP! That'll ROCK! Now my level 40 can go to a specific spot to be ganked and lag. Oh wait, no, I can trek back and forth from a cave for an hour supplying resources! Go PVP!

[TrackZero]

Cola>pepsi. no contest.

Dude, this might shock you....Pepsi IS a Cola.

I'm sure you meant Coke though, just had to point that out. ;)

[TrackZero]

Good to see this is finally out. Though I doubt it'll fix the griefing problems that the honor patch introduced on the PvP servers (until they start punishing lvl 60s when they gang-rape a level 50 just trying to grind). I'll stick with my new toon on a PvE server and just get to use the battlegrounds anyways.

[Heretic Machine]

Good to see this is finally out. Though I doubt it'll fix the griefing problems that the honor patch introduced on the PvP servers (until they start punishing lvl 60s when they gang-rape a level 50 just trying to grind). I'll stick with my new toon on a PvE server and just get to use the battlegrounds anyways.

Dishonorable kills.

[Evil Avatar]

Dishonorable kills.

There is no Dishonorable PvP kills. Only PvE from what I've read. You get punshed for ganking NPC's and not players.

[Blue]

I was really excited for Battlegrounds until I started playing Guild Wars. Now any other PvP is going to blow in comparison. Dueling was slightly enjoyable at first but I was never really into it. It's really a matter - to a large extent, not entirely - of who has the best gear rather than who actually plays their character better. I don't really see the appeal in that.

[Goronmon]

I was really excited for Battlegrounds until I started playing Guild Wars. Now any other PvP is going to blow in comparison. Dueling was slightly enjoyable at first but I was never really into it. It's really a matter - to a large extent, not entirely - of who has the best gear rather than who actually plays their character better. I don't really see the appeal in that.
How is the PvE in Guild Wars?

If I remember correctly, you need to play through at least once to get all the skills for a certain character type.

[bradlay]

Dishonorable kills.

What about them? Or were we playing word association? OK, go again...

[bradlay]

You mean down during the announced and scheduled every week down time?

That is just bad reporting. Every Tuesday the servers are down from 8am to 2pm EST (sometimes 3pm).

That's what I was gonna say, but a little ruder probably.

[TrackZero]

"Edit: Just as I predicted, all servers are down."

Ummmm....isn't that because it's the weekly maintenance right now?

[Blue]

How is the PvE in Guild Wars?

If I remember correctly, you need to play through at least once to get all the skills for a certain character type.

The PvE is a bit less interesting to me, though the battles are really fast-paced, so a knowledge of your strength and weaknesses is a must if you're going to come out on top when out-numbered. It reminds me a bit of Phantasy Star Online though with more options. PSO on crack, say. I'm sure someone will tell you something different, but that's how it is for me.

I hate to admit it, but I'm sort of 50/50 on everything being instanced. It seems less personal which is, again, more why it reminds me of PSO.

PvE though is fun when you're in a group so that you can sort of use strategies when going through more difficult areas. Alone though it's fairly 'blah' and having to resort to using henchmen blows.

[Undertakr]

There are two types of PVE in Guild Wars, there's quests, which is like WoW, where you have something to do, you walk through a zone and do it (FedEx, Kill, find, escort, etc.) Then there are missions which is a a full storyline complete with cut scenes and massive battles that are story driven where you actually work with other NPCs to defend and attack things. It's extremely cool playing the missions IMO. Much more fun if you have friends to group with because a lot of areas take strategy to accomplish, which is fun. Battles are fast and crazy and long. I'm level 12 or 13, can't remember, and we've been in fights with the 6 of us vs 10-15 mobs and they're amazing. There are no one on one fights.

[Goronmon]

"Edit: Just as I predicted, all servers are down."

Ummmm....isn't that because it's the weekly maintenance right now?
Technically, he still "guessed" right ;)

[Blue]

There are two types of PVE in Guild Wars, there's quests, which is like WoW, where you have something to do, you walk through a zone and do it (FedEx, Kill, find, escort, etc.) Then there are missions which is a a full storyline complete with cut scenes and massive battles that are story driven where you actually work with other NPCs to defend and attack things. It's extremely cool playing the missions IMO. Much more fun if you have friends to group with because a lot of areas take strategy to accomplish, which is fun. Battles are fast and crazy and long. I'm level 12 or 13, can't remember, and we've been in fights with the 6 of us vs 10-15 mobs and they're amazing. There are no one on one fights.

Yeah, that is something I forgot to mention. There really aren't one on one fights in this, which is great. I have a friend who's picking this up this weekend and I'm really looking forward to getting to start running missions with someone who - like me - is discovering things for the first time. That, and we'll be able to bounce strategy ideas off of one another. One aspect WoW (and most other MMO's I've played) was lacking in was the strategy department. Sure I had a role to play as a Hunter, but I never found an instance within the game where I had to do my job well in order for us to survive. A game is much more satisfying with everyone running full-tilt where you fall into that zen-like state and start playing off of one another out of instinct rather than the usual, repetative, hit key 3, pull aggro, repeat.

I think the point of this was for me to say that "yes, Takr brings up a very good point." Seconded.

[Goronmon]

I've wanted to pick up Guild Wars for a bit, but I was playing other MMORPGs and didn't want to split time too much. Now I am playing no MMORPGs, but BF2 is coming out in a couple weeks, and I'll prolly end up picking that up.

Edit: I hate having to choose between games :(

[51|RandoM]

One aspect WoW (and most other MMO's I've played) was lacking in was the strategy department. Sure I had a role to play as a Hunter, but I never found an instance within the game where I had to do my job well in order for us to survive. A game is much more satisfying with everyone running full-tilt where you fall into that zen-like state and start playing off of one another out of instinct rather than the usual, repetative, hit key 3, pull aggro, repeat.


You can apply plenty of strategy to a WoW session, problem is, though, that you don't have to to win 99% of the encounters. Only place you have to do stuff like that is really molten core, and even then, mc is 95% preparation(gear and spec) and 5% skill.

I'm hoping battlegrounds takes some pressure off of the other zones, so I can go back to questing, farming for rare gear, etc., instead of getting ganked right at the taxi stands.

[51|RandoM]

I've wanted to pick up Guild Wars for a bit, but I was playing other MMORPGs and didn't want to split time too much. Now I am playing no MMORPGs, but BF2 is coming out in a couple weeks, and I'll prolly end up picking that up.

Edit: I hate having to choose between games :(


GW isn't a MMORPG.

[Goronmon]

GW isn't a MMORPG.
Its close enough that the distinction is worthless :p

[Undertakr]

If by saying GW isn't a MMORPG you mean you don't get kill stolen, ganked, don't have to walk 5000 miles to get anywhere, don't have to beg for groups to be able to play, don't have to be in the highest guilds to be in the high level content, don't have to play for months non-stop to get to maxed level and don't have to wait in line for drops for items you MUST have to compete in the game....you're right!

[XenonCJ]

You mean down during the announced and scheduled every week down time?

That is just bad reporting. Every Tuesday the servers are down from 8am to 2pm EST (sometimes 3pm).Actually it's totally rediculous that these servers need this much downtime. Where I work, downtime during business hours is TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE.

Scheduled downtime CAN NOT exceed 4 hours during OFF HOURS, and must be planned at least 10 days in advance.

Unsheduled downtime of production systems can't exceed 4 hours (will be failed-over to hotspare).

Typically, for even our most massive database servers (multi-terrabyte), downtime lasts no more than a few minutes max...

I think the people running Blizzard's datacenter must be morons.

[Wolfgang]

XenonCJ, well it can be totaly unacceptable, but they have near 2 million subscribers accepting it. It was never a question of if it was a good policy -- I was responding to the "surprise" that they were down. When infact it was not a surprise at all.

It is also announced each week and is no shocker to the WoW community. So while most companies do their admin stuff at midnight, Blizz gets away with it cause their data shows this is the time the least amount of people play.

Actually it's totally rediculous that these servers need this much downtime. Where I work, downtime during business hours is TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE.

Apparently not.

Scheduled downtime CAN NOT exceed 4 hours during OFF HOURS, and must be planned at least 10 days in advance.

This downtime has been established for months now and has lasted more than 4 hours each time.

Unsheduled downtime of production systems can't exceed 4 hours (will be failed-over to hotspare).

It was not unscheduled.

Typically, for even our most massive database servers (multi-terrabyte), downtime lasts no more than a few minutes max...

Minutes? Honestly, Minutes? Come on... Even a simple reboot will take more than a few minutes.

I think the people running Blizzard's datacenter must be morons.

Blizzard appears to be happy with how they are doing it. The Tuesday time period is picked because the North American version of the game is played in the Americas and Australia.

While I suppose you are going to tell me you work for Microsoft, Cisco, Novell, Oracle, etc... That is great. Please research the product you are going to comment on before you comment.

I don't agree with their downtime. I would prefer it be from 3am EST to 7am EST, however that is me and the people on the West coast would not like that.

[XenonCJ]

XenonCJ, well it can be totaly unacceptable, but they have near 2 million subscribers accepting it. It was never a question of if it was a good policy -- I was responding to the "surprise" that they were down. When infact it was not a surprise at all.

It is also announced each week and is no shocker to the WoW community. So while most companies do their admin stuff at midnight, Blizz gets away with it cause their data shows this is the time the least amount of people play.

Apparently not.

This downtime has been established for months now and has lasted more than 4 hours each time.

It was not unscheduled.

Minutes? Honestly, Minutes? Come on... Even a simple reboot will take more than a few minutes.

Blizzard appears to be happy with how they are doing it. The Tuesday time period is picked because the North American version of the game is played in the Americas and Australia.

While I suppose you are going to tell me you work for Microsoft, Cisco, Novell, Oracle, etc... That is great. Please research the product you are going to comment on before you comment.

I don't agree with their downtime. I would prefer it be from 3am EST to 7am EST, however that is me and the people on the West coast would not like that.Whatever man - customers and internal users attach to the systems where I work 24/7/365 from all over the world. We don't do downtime like this *6+ hours (and for sometimes for DAYS) EVERY WEEK*. _EVER_.

[Goronmon]

Actually it's totally rediculous that these servers need this much downtime. Where I work, downtime during business hours is TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE.
Let's see, compare the number of people playing WoW from 12am-4am and then compare the number of people using your company's servers from 12am-4am ;)

[DeadPixel]

WoW: Battlegrounds of Frustration

I'm glad I stopped playing WoW 2 months ago, since that time I had a chance to cath up on some great single player and coop games and still have time left over for PIE!

[GrinR]

"rediculous" is gaining on "loose" (in place of "lose") as the most identifying feature of an idiot.

[XenonCJ]

"rediculous" is gaining on "loose" (in place of "lose") as the most identifying feature of an idiot.Spelling NAZI also identified.

[XenonCJ]

Let's see, compare the number of people playing WoW from 12am-4am and then compare the number of people using your company's servers from 12am-4am ;)I would bet it's fairly similar actually.

[bradlay]

Whatever man - customers and internal users attach to the systems where I work 24/7/365 from all over the world. We don't do downtime like this *6+ hours (and for sometimes for DAYS) EVERY WEEK*. _EVER_.

And I'm guessing your servers are used for more important transactions than people auctioning Goldthorn. To all the people that get this worked up over the scheduled downtime, use this time to go meet a nice girl. Or go read a fucking book. Have a cup of coffee (no wait, bad idea. Have a beer). It's been out for almost seven months now. I kind of prefer that the game gets updated and the servers are properly maintained.

[GrinR]

Spelling NAZI also identified.

Sadly, invective directed at me will not make you any smarter. Just learn from your mistakes like a good boy and maybe you'll get a milk bone. Thaatsaboy.

[XenonCJ]

Sadly, invective directed at me will not make you any smarter. Just learn from your mistakes like a good boy and maybe you'll get a milk bone. Thaatsaboy.Good grief - get over yourself.

[XenonCJ]

And I'm guessing your servers are used for more important transactions than people auctioning Goldthorn. To all the people that get this worked up over the scheduled downtime, use this time to go meet a nice girl. Or go read a fucking book. Have a cup of coffee (no wait, bad idea. Have a beer). It's been out for almost seven months now. I kind of prefer that the game gets updated and the servers are properly maintained.Hey man I'm just saying it seems like a bad way to run a server farm - but I'm just one man with an opinion. Take it or fucking leave it, you're the one taking this personal.

[GrinR]

Good grief - get over yourself.
Excellent! See? You can spell!


(I'm so proud)

[XenonCJ]

Excellent! See? You can spell!


(I'm so proud)
You've made yourself feel big and powerful by belittling someone on the internet for poor spelling. CONGRATULATIONS!

[GrinR]

You've made yourself feel big and powerful by belittling someone on the internet for poor spelling. CONGRATULATIONS!
Nope. I'm just using you to illustrate how stupid people will often defend their own stupidity at all costs. You should have just taken the point of correction and used it to better yourself. Instead you decided to deride me, your clear superior, in an effort to mask the fact that you had made a silly mistake. It's ok, you likely don't know any better.

[Verocity]

I like Pie!

Pie > Cake
Coke > Pepsi
...

Oh nm.

:D

[GrinR]

It's "nevermind" not "nm" IDIOT!!!!

[Verocity]

It's "nevermind" not "nm" IDIOT!!!!

Yeesh! Go get laid bro.

[Goronmon]

"rediculous" is gaining on "loose" (in place of "lose") as the most identifying feature of an idiot.
What about people who can't think of anything intelligent to say on-topic, so instead attack people for stuff they probably looked up in a dictionary anyways? ;)

[GrinR]

Verocity, I was making fun of myself.
Goro, intelligent to say about WoW servers being down? Come on.

[Goronmon]

Goro, intelligent to say about WoW servers being down? Come on.
Hey, give me a break, I'm bored at work :p

[bobbler]

Actually it's totally rediculous that these servers need this much downtime. Where I work, downtime during business hours is TOTALLY UNACCEPTABLE.

Scheduled downtime CAN NOT exceed 4 hours during OFF HOURS, and must be planned at least 10 days in advance.

Unsheduled downtime of production systems can't exceed 4 hours (will be failed-over to hotspare).

Typically, for even our most massive database servers (multi-terrabyte), downtime lasts no more than a few minutes max...

I think the people running Blizzard's datacenter must be morons.

Surprisingly... I totally agree with you, XenonCJ.

Blizzard never ceases to amaze -- they have some really talented people, but their implementation is abysmal at times (honor system, game servers, patching, etc). Now days there is really no reason for more than a 30 minute down time for patching a server. There is no reason their servers shouldn't be able to handle the small load (per server) that is put on them. There is no reason Blizzard shouldn't be able to patch more than once a month with some additional things (especially for the ~25 million a month they are racking in). It's disheartening to see Blizzard shoot themselves in the foot -- they have a reasonably fun game but they screw it up in so many ways that it becomes a hassle to enjoy.

If you guys are done picking on his spelling and actually read what he had to say, you might have seen he had a point. Regardless of if 2 million people still pay their monthly fees, there is simply no excuse for the kind of downtimes WoW has (and the lack of support).

[GrinR]

Hey, give me a break, I'm bored at work :p
Tell me about it. I'm reduced to speculating on the vagaries of common internet misspellings and whipping on poor saps like Xenon.

(side note: misspell is a tough word!)

[XenonCJ]

Nope. I'm just using you to illustrate how stupid people will often defend their own stupidity at all costs. You should have just taken the point of correction and used it to better yourself. Instead you decided to deride me, your clear superior, in an effort to mask the fact that you had made a silly mistake. It's ok, you likely don't know any better.Laff - you're making an example of yourself. I suggest you quit while you're behind.

[GrinR]

bobbler, can you name any other service that supplies realtime, low-latency, relatively high bandwidth, two-way connections to hundreds of thousands of people at a time? We're not talking about streaming or serving - that's just spewing data. We're talking about data going both ways (interactive) and in-synch with thousands of others. We're talking about accounting for calculation time (for the "game" part of the game) and insane DB updates.

These comparisons that the ignoranti come up with where they're used to DB serve farms or multimedia streaming or banking transactions are NOT EVEN CLOSE to the server/network load Blizzard is trying to manage. Not by a long shot.

Is it perfect? No. Is it excellent? No. But it does work for enough people that their pop numbers aren't diminishing in the slightest. Ultimately that is good enough.

[GrinR]

Laff - you're making an example of yourself. I suggest you quit while you're behind.
Insisting on placing yourself in harm's way is not a good way of demonstrating your newfound education. You don't have to accept your error, if you cherish your foolishness so much, but do not compound it by attacking me.

[Thenetcase]

Look, we can't all be as stupid as Xenon. Someone has to sit on the curb and cheer as the rest of us walk by.

So give the poor bum a break, ok guys? It's been established that he's a complete moron already.

I'm not sure why someone would get so upset and bent out of shape by a scheduled downtime. Most of the world is at work during this time anyway. The people who aren't at work are 14 year-old Counter Strike players who would be better off not playing WoW. I wonder what that makes XenonCJ. (Maybe a liar and a CS player? Big shock there!)

-TNC-

P.S. I'm not actually SAYING that Xenon is a CS player or a liar, mind you. I'm just intimating that he MAY be.

[XenonCJ]

bobbler, can you name any other service that supplies realtime, low-latency, relatively high bandwidth, two-way connections to hundreds of thousands of people at a time? We're not talking about streaming or serving - that's just spewing data. We're talking about data going both ways (interactive) and in-synch with thousands of others. We're talking about accounting for calculation time (for the "game" part of the game) and insane DB updates.

These comparisons that the ignoranti come up with where they're used to DB serve farms or multimedia streaming or banking transactions are NOT EVEN CLOSE to the server/network load Blizzard is trying to manage. Not by a long shot.

Is it perfect? No. Is it excellent? No. But it does work for enough people that their pop numbers aren't diminishing in the slightest. Ultimately that is good enough.Try trading stocks\energy real-time 24\7\365. I'd take the "Pepsi Challenge" with our servers vs. Blizzard's any day. (assuming Blizzard's are actually up). Now beat it. =)

[XenonCJ]

Insisting on placing yourself in harm's way is not a good way of demonstrating your newfound education. You don't have to accept your error, if you cherish your foolishness so much, but do not compound it by attacking me.I'm attacking you?

[GrinR]

Try trading stocks\energy real-time 24\7\365. I'd take the "Pepsi Challenge" with our servers vs. Blizzard's any day. (assuming Blizzard's are actually up). Now beat it. =)

*sigh* I'm not sure why I bother.

Traders are not in-sync with each other in realtime. Nor do their servers have in-sync calculations to manage on top of database calls. I'd ask you to read what I wrote, which you obviously can't manage, but I'm tired of educating such a willfully ignorant buffoon.

[bobbler]

bobbler, can you name any other service that supplies realtime, low-latency, relatively high bandwidth, two-way connections to hundreds of thousands of people at a time? We're not talking about streaming or serving - that's just spewing data. We're talking about data going both ways (interactive) and in-synch with thousands of others. We're talking about accounting for calculation time (for the "game" part of the game) and insane DB updates.

These comparisons that the ignoranti come up with where they're used to DB serve farms or multimedia streaming or banking transactions are NOT EVEN CLOSE to the server/network load Blizzard is trying to manage. Not by a long shot.

Is it perfect? No. Is it excellent? No. But it does work for enough people that their pop numbers aren't diminishing in the slightest. Ultimately that is good enough.

Just because you haven't seen servers that can handle it without dying every 24 hours doesn't mean they don't exist. It is also no excuse for incompetency in Blizzard's server implementation. He was giving his opinion, and I'm giving mine -- there is no excuse for having the kind of servers WoW does when it has the kind of cash flow it does. It's sickening and pathetic.

For example EQ2 servers (while not as numerous as WoW's -- ~25 compared to ~80) don't do this, and each server has double the capacity of a wow server yet still doesn't flake out (without a friggin queue -- when EQ2 first came out a few of the servers had about 2-3 servers worth of population on them and still ran better than WoW servers do most of the time). Patching on EQ2 is usually no more than 1hr at most (usually only 15-30 minutes), patching is also done far more often. Blizzard could have learned from other companies past mistakes like SOE did, on the server front at least.

If SOE, the 'devil' of the MMO world can do it... Blizzard has no excuse. Just because they have more people playing (and thus more servers to spread the user base out) doesn't make it ok.

[Thenetcase]

Insisting on placing yourself in harm's way is not a good way of demonstrating your newfound education. You don't have to accept your error, if you cherish your foolishness so much, but do not compound it by attacking me.

Allow me to make some modest corrections to this statement.
Your commas in the second line should have been a parenthetic extraction from the sentence. They completely obliterate the structure of the sentence and fragment the thought.

If you do not wish to use parenthesis, consider restructuring your sentence so that it is comprised of two separate sentences.


On a site note...
The easy way to tell if your sentense is structured properly is to make a diagram of it.

To be completely truthful, I do not normally make anything out of misspellings or gramatical error. I chose to do so this time merely because (as someone previously stated) the person in question was being a spelling "nazi".

Peace.
-TNC-

[GrinR]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but does EQ2 have PvP? Also, isn't EQ2 more zone-based?

Good response, bobbler. Good points I don't have answers to.

[XenonCJ]

Look, we can't all be as stupid as Xenon. Someone has to sit on the curb and cheer as the rest of us walk by.

So give the poor bum a break, ok guys? It's been established that he's a complete moron already.

I'm not sure why someone would get so upset and bent out of shape by a scheduled downtime. Most of the world is at work during this time anyway. The people who aren't at work are 14 year-old Counter Strike players who would be better off not playing WoW. I wonder what that makes XenonCJ. (Maybe a liar and a CS player? Big shock there!)

-TNC-

P.S. I'm not actually SAYING that Xenon is a CS player or a liar, mind you. I'm just intimating that he MAY be.Wow thanks man, that's quite a heart-warming post. Funny, I don't remember you, but I've obviously struck a nerve with you in the past. Also, you act as if like I typed 10 pages worth of ALL CAPS text screaming how 30 minutes of scheduled downtime at 4am "IS INSANE!!!!!!!!! ARRRRGGGGGGHHH!!!!" Do you even know what we are talking about? I laugh at you. No really I do.

[Alexious]

*sigh* I'm not sure why I bother.
Actually, none of the rest of us are sure either. :D

I kid. I kid. In all seriousness though, your sardonic wit is really an inappropriate form of humor for postings in a forum. Being witty is all about facial expressions and tone of voice. You shouldn't be surprised that nobody gets your jokes. In the forum, humor has to be really obvious.

[SteveRage]

What amazes me the most is how people will not only accept: shitty service, lack of support and MONTHS between buggy patches, they defend a company whose game they are paying to beta test. MMOs are a godsend for the money-hungry faceless people who spend thier time trying to do as little as possible to keep their audience. (generalization alarm, there are exceptions.)
It pains me to see that what was once a great company (Blizzard) has come to this. I hope the people with the talent that started the company disassociate themselves from the current business and move on (aside from those who went to NC Slft)
If this were the old Blizzard, WoW would be a much better game, IMO.

[Draft]

Oh hey, more WoW bashing and GW circle jerking! What a surprise!

I'm only going to say one thing- anyone who says that WoW requires no skill, and that guild wars does, is obviously free basing heroin. Anyone who says that gear >>> skill in WoW is snorting coke off the butt of a 40 year old hooker.

Does suck that the servers are down though, even if it's scheduled.

-I'm actually going to say one more thing: For every thing that WoW does wrong, it does 100 things right. People would not play it if it wasn't fun. Millions of people would not play if it wasn't a lot of fun. I was up to 4 fucking AM last night playing WoW. on a WORK night. I haven't done that since college.

[Alexious]

Wow thanks man, that's quite a heart-warming post. Funny, I don't remember you, but I've obviously struck a nerve with you in the past. Also, you act as if like I typed 10 pages worth of ALL CAPS text screaming how 30 minutes of scheduled downtime at 4am "IS INSANE!!!!!!!!! ARRRRGGGGGGHHH!!!!" Do you even know what we are talking about? I laugh at you. No really I do.
OKAY! TIME OUT! Everyone just... take a deep breath. Step away from the keyboard. Go have a snack. Everything is going to alright.

[Rirath]

I kid. I kid. In all seriousness though, your sardonic wit is really an inappropriate form of humor for postings in a forum. Being witty is all about facial expressions and tone of voice. You shouldn't be surprised that nobody gets your jokes. In the forum, humor has to be really obvious.

Sarcasm and sardonic wit come through just fine on the net, even when given with deadpan delivery. It's existed in writing for ages, and half the time the inability to tell if the author is serious or not is the point. I don't think it's the medium of a forum that's the problem, I think it's the audience.

One can always resort to emoticons, like "I think it's the audience. ;)", but that does tend to be overused instead of letting the writing speak for itself. Now, everyone download Spellbound (http://spellbound.sourceforge.net/) for Firefox and make the net a better place.

[GrinR]

Thenetcase:

Amusing, if not factually correct, assessment of my post. Although parenthesis would be as correct as commas in this case, it is specifically the environment and the context of my post that allow usage of the latter punctuation without error. Naturally, the various accepted writing style guides are only semi-applicable here on a gaming internet forum, where the rules are hardly established beyond the basics of "netiquette", and a far cry from the hard realities of proper English (or even American) spelling.

In short, nice try.

That said, It made me laugh to see you try to find something to nitpick in my perfection. Do it again!

Pop quiz: how many misspellings did you make in your vain critique?

[XenonCJ]

*sigh* I'm not sure why I bother.

Traders are not in-sync with each other in realtime. Nor do their servers have in-sync calculations to manage on top of database calls. I'd ask you to read what I wrote, which you obviously can't manage, but I'm tired of educating such a willfully ignorant buffoon.Heh, oh really? You can stop now because you really have revealed that you have no idea what you are talking about. Just one example for you, have you ever heard of real-time risk analysis? Do you realize that a single trader can represent MULTIPLE users(instances) up to 100s of simultaneous connections in some cases, within a single or multiple databases? All push and pulls always updated all the time accurate to miliseconds? Downtime in some cases is actually ILLEGAL? Deal with it dude, go get an education 1st before trying to educate...

[Alexious]

Sarcasm and sardonic wit come through just fine on the net, even when given with deadpan delivery. It's existed in writing for ages, and half the time the inability to tell if the author is serious or not is the point. I don't think it's the medium of a forum that's the problem, I think it's the audience.
Agreed, but frankly nobody "got the joke" in Socrates' time either unless they were one of his students. Even most college educated people would have taken his (GrinR, obviously not Socrates) posts at face value and assumed he was being rude.

These days, most people are used to a facial cue telling that it's okay to laugh (see John Stewart, The Daily Show) because it really was funny.

[GrinR]

*sigh again*

XenonCJ, what more can I say. I try to make you smarter, but you are simply resistant to knowledge. I'm familiar with what you're describing and yes I understand it. What you don't understand is how fundamentally different the two environments are. You are trying to describe how a sword is the same as a gun on the basis of their intended purpose and the typical results of their use. You are missing how they function in an entirely different way.

Here's a tip: Go to Blizzard and apply for a job helping them. I've spoken with them and trust me - they are more than willing to pay massive amounts of money to anyone who can "make the magic happen". The reality is that they have already talked to the best, and the best can't figure it out either. Also, I'm not talking about just recently, I'm talking about 5 years ago when they were looking for networking gurus to help with battle.net. They just can't find someone who can do it. Maybe this is your big chance.

[Rirath]

Agreed, but frankly nobody "got the joke" in Socrates' time either unless they were one of his students. Even most college educated people would have taken his (GrinR, obviously not Socrates) posts at face value and assumed he was being rude.

While I certainly agree with you, I always thought that was half the point. The inside-joke feeling of it all. Sarcasm today is somewhat overblown and practically accompanied by a canned laugh track, but subtlety is always nice.

[GrinR]

rirath: THANKS! Spellbound is AWESOME.

[bobbler]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but does EQ2 have PvP? Also, isn't EQ2 more zone-based?
...

It actually does have PVP now, I think it was added with some recent patch (alebit it's not a major feature of the game).

EQ2 is also more zone based, like you said... However, that is more a choice of load times and not all that much to do with the server -- as far as the server is concerned once you cross a line you are in another zone (the load data just gets loaded in the background in WoW in places like the tunnels between 'zones'). There are zones in WoW, they just hide them a lot better. Zoning has more to do with client side than server side though.

On a brighter note, I imagine Blizzard will have its servers fixed up over time so this type of thing doesn't continue. It's just sad that they didn't forsee some of these problems glaring problems (but that's rather difficult at times) -- A lot of it has to do with support, which they really have no excuse for -- server difficulties you can chalk up to inexperience in the MMO market, but support is common sense (especially when Blizzard said many times support was one of their key things with WoW and patches would be frequent).

...The reality is that they have already talked to the best, and the best can't figure it out either. Also, I'm not talking about just recently, I'm talking about 5 years ago when they were looking for networking gurus to help with battle.net. They just can't find someone who can do it. Maybe this is your big chance.

I think it has more to do with their current archetecture -- they chose poorly to begin with (maybe they didn't realize how many people would play? maybe they didn't see it from all the angles?). Each server probably has far too many dependancies to make it run smoothly with this type of population. Part of their problem is how they try to spread the client base pretty thin -- each server actually has a pretty low population compared to a lot of MMO game's servers (2k max and queues kick in I believe). Sync'ing those servers creates a lot of overhead with patching and just normal running probably -- there aren't 80 actual boxes, theres a few main servers that run virtual servers, most likely (so 1 actual computer may be running 3-4 game servers). It's better to have fewer beefier virtual game servers than a ton of smaller ones in some cases. They are putting too high of load on too few actual server boxes is what it seems. Adding more server boxes would fix most of the problem (since each server doesn't necessarily talk to each other, theres no cross server chat at all -- at least that I know about), it seems -- of course, I don't know their server archetecture but If they are doing what I've heard then they are just being cheap. Patching the servers shouldn't take as long as it does, if they had a well implemented patching system -- If there is one spot EQ2 excels, it is in the patching system (arguably the one of the only spots, besides maybe graphics -- which is also arguable).

If they, knowing what they know now (probably), started over, I'm sure they could make a server system that is far more capable than what they have now.

[GrinR]

Bobblers post for teh wins!

[Draft]

Game is up now, lag free. But you guys go on argueing about server architecture.

[Thenetcase]

Pop quiz: how many misspellings did you make in your vain critique?

None... fuck you very much. :)

[Blue]

Game is up now, lag free. But you guys go on argueing about server architecture.

Actually, I'm lagging pretty bad. And no, it's not my computer.

GW, no lag. Hurray for snorting coke off a hooker.

[Draft]

Actually, I'm lagging pretty bad. And no, it's not my computer.

GW, no lag. Hurray for snorting coke off a hooker.
Oh well if you're lagged then clearly everyone else is. Silly me.

[Blue]

Oh well if you're lagged then clearly everyone else is. Silly me.

Yes, but - and correct me if I'm wrong here - you said the game was up and, what was it? Lag free? Thus assuming for everyone else the same held true. Silly me.

[XenonCJ]

*sigh again*

XenonCJ, what more can I say. I try to make you smarter, but you are simply resistant to knowledge. I'm familiar with what you're describing and yes I understand it. What you don't understand is how fundamentally different the two environments are. You are trying to describe how a sword is the same as a gun on the basis of their intended purpose and the typical results of their use. You are missing how they function in an entirely different way.

Here's a tip: Go to Blizzard and apply for a job helping them. I've spoken with them and trust me - they are more than willing to pay massive amounts of money to anyone who can "make the magic happen". The reality is that they have already talked to the best, and the best can't figure it out either. Also, I'm not talking about just recently, I'm talking about 5 years ago when they were looking for networking gurus to help with battle.net. They just can't find someone who can do it. Maybe this is your big chance.Whatever you say man... Of course they are different, but I would wager they have similar resource, and maintenance requirements. That said, my original statement stands:

Their downtime routine is excessive compared to any other high-availability system I'm familiar with.

Maybe I'm just too spoiled on higher standard service level agreements?

[GrinR]

None... fuck you very much. :)

0 in this post, at least 2 in the other. Man, that spelling plugin for Firefox is awesome. What a relief. No more going to m-w to check...

[Thenetcase]

2 in the other one, eh?
Well just for the sake of argument I ran it through MS Word's spell checker and an online spell checker. What I came up with? NOTHING.
Enlighten me, my dear fucktard.

[XenonCJ]

0 in this post, at least 2 in the other. Man, that spelling plugin for Firefox is awesome. What a relief. No more going to m-w to check...What??? Do I read correctly that you use a spell checker??? Wow, I think I speak for all of us when I express my great disapointment... We all thought you were some kind of genius Spelling Bee prodigy who was generous enough with his devine gift to correct our mistakes!!! Oh the humanity!

[Mysterio]

Naturally, the various accepted writing style guides are only semi-applicable here on a gaming internet forum, where the rules are hardly established beyond the basics of "netiquette", and a far cry from the hard realities of proper English (or even American) spelling.

Oh, that's a rich quote. Once Thenetcase (who obviously knows more about proper grammar than you) critiques what you wrote, you declare that the very thing you chastise others over is acceptable when coming from you. It's chocolate-on-chocolate rich. Yummy.

People who think they know it all really annoy those of us who do.

On a sidenote...I bet you work for Intel, don't you?

[Mister Pie]

Man you guys need to lighten up. Go play WoW or Guild Wars or something.

[Chiron]

I hate to interrupt the witty repartee here, and I'm sure this post will be lost in the mire of asinine comments this thread has become, but whatever. My initial impressions of Battlegrounds: Fucking Awesome. That's just the CTF portion, haven't even tried the big raid instance. There's actually room for skill and tactics, not just a mindless back and forth zerg. Highly reccomended.

[Mason]

How red is my face for missing this thread? To watch a bright young thing like GrinR get owned that badly...sniff...

I'm really shocked that he admitted to frequently using an online dictionary. I mean, having a naturally perfect spelling ability adds a tiny bit of girth to your ePenis, but simply being really obsessive about spellchecking prior to each post? That demonstrates more insecurity than virtue. My mistakes are "netiquette" and your mistakes are character flaws. I love it.

On-topic, I'm afraid of checking out the new patch, as my guild will yell at me for not logging on in a month.

[BigJonno]

Am I the only one getting sick of every WoW-related thread getting filled with out-of-proportion WoW bashing/fanboyism? It's not the Second Coming, but it's a damn fine game. It's fun, fast-paced, relieves stress rather than creates it and doesn't feel like a job. I'm quite happy to debate its merits and flaws with anyone, as I'm surprised that I enjoy it as much as I do, but if I have to read one more comment that is taking a matter of personal taste and turning it into some huge, game-breaking issue, I'm likely to go on a destructive rampage of some description.

*Grabs the thread by the scruff of the neck, picks it up and firmly places it back on-topic.*

I can't wait to give Battlegrounds a go. I enjoy PvP, but not the gank-fest that is the average PvP server in almost any MMORPG. The implementation of PvP on non-PvP servers has been great. Not perfect, but definitely something that MMORPG designers should pay attention to.

[GrinR]

"On a site note...
The easy way to tell if your sentense is structured properly is to make a diagram of it. "

side and sentence.

Mysterio, if you understood English you'd understand that I was writing about the difference between writing style and spelling. One is art, the other is science. Xenon's error was simple, and my original comment was really about how often I'd seen it made, not about correcting him. Try reading it again.

Two PWND in one post. And all before coffee.

[edit: I missed Mason's foolish post. Sadly, I'm too busy at work to deliver more pwnage today. Maybe tonight. Suffice it to say Mason hasn't read the thread.]

[Bargash]

I tried playing the Alterac Mountains Battle Ground last night. I quit after waiting 2 hours. I conquered the world for my Celtic ancestors in Civ III instead.


Sorry for posting on-topic in this thread. Please, continue with your online grammar and spelling war. May the most ruthless win!

[XenonCJ]

"On a site note...
The easy way to tell if your sentense is structured properly is to make a diagram of it. "

side and sentence.

Mysterio, if you understood English you'd understand that I was writing about the difference between writing style and spelling. One is art, the other is science. Xenon's error was simple, and my original comment was really about how often I'd seen it made, not about correcting him. Try reading it again.

Two PWND in one post. And all before coffee.

[edit: I missed Mason's foolish post. Sadly, I'm too busy at work to deliver more pwnage today. Maybe tonight. Suffice it to say Mason hasn't read the thread.]Haha yeah...... not about correcting me eh? So what was with all the self-important tripe about "learning from my mistakes" and whatever else you pretended to educate me on? All while using your FireFox spell checker. I laugh at you.

[GrinR]

Haha yeah...... not about correcting me eh? So what was with all the self-important tripe about "learning from my mistakes" and whatever else you pretended to educate me on? All while using your FireFox spell checker. I laugh at you.

Doesn't anyone read anymore? Someone suggested the addon to firefox in this very thread, previous to which I would use www.m-w.com to check words I didn't already know how to spell. "misspell" was one of those words, btw, and I even mentioned it!

If you're really want to challenge me on English, by all means proceed, but at least come to school prepared. Geez.

Suggestion: Read the words you are commenting on before you comment.

[Mysterio]

Mysterio, if you understood English you'd understand that I was writing about the difference between writing style and spelling. One is art, the other is science. Xenon's error was simple, and my original comment was really about how often I'd seen it made, not about correcting him. Try reading it again.

Two PWND in one post. And all before coffee.

Oh, so I misunderstood what you wrote because I don't understand English? Nice try, GrinR, but you're not going to dance your way out of this one. You were talking in circles, and you were busted. Take it like the man you wish you could be.

You're obviously the type of person who craves attention, who has a need to prove to others how intelligent he (thinks he) is. This is due to the fact that you have very low self-esteem. Many incorrectly conclude that people like you are cocky, when in fact such people don't think highly of themselves at all.

BTW, those who are good at something don't have to flaunt it. Those who aren't, never stop trying to prove to others they are. Welcome to the latter!

[XenonCJ]

Doesn't anyone read anymore? Someone suggested the addon to firefox in this very thread, previous to which I would use www.m-w.com (http://www.m-w.com/) to check words I didn't already know how to spell. "misspell" was one of those words, btw, and I even mentioned it!

If you're really want to challenge me on English, by all means proceed, but at least come to school prepared. Geez.

Suggestion: Read the words you are commenting on before you comment.Challenge you in English? What kind of fucking "NERD vs. NERD" bullshit are you suggesting now? LOLOLOLOL ROFL - That is seriously one of the lamest things I've ever heard...

Hey everyone! GrinR is going to "school me at English"!!!! Oh No! RUN FOR THE HILLS!!! LAFF

[GrinR]

Oddly enough, I seem to be the only person actually reading anything in this thread. Despite my being clear and to the point, the only response you folks can come up with is pre-90's junk like "your just immature and prbably never saw a woman naked grow up lol!" or "LOLOLOLOL ROFL - That is seriously one of the lamest things I've ever heard... "

So boring. Back to genmay where at least the stupidity is funny.

[XenonCJ]

Yes, by all means, go back to whatever it is you go back to...

Just keep this in mind when you do:
XenonCJ - 1
GrinR - 0

Thanks for playing.

[GrinR]

You are a sad little moron, Xenon.

[XenonCJ]

You are a sad little moron, Xenon.I thought you said you were leaving? NOW LEAVE! (in defeat of course)