Nintendo and Microsoft responds to Sony's Home [Archive]

BlackPete

03-10-2007, 12:41 PM

GameDaily.BIZ reports that both Nintendo and Microsoft have unsurprisingly downplayed the impact of Sony's Home concept. Nintendo calls it "Mii too" approach while Microsoft believes that it is was "not a very game-centric approach."

Here's an interesting quote from Nintendo:

"This is an example of Sony's 'Mii-too' approach," said a Nintendo spokesperson to CVG. "But as Mr. Miyamoto states, Nintendo years ago considered and rejected the type of approach Sony is now taking."

Full article here (http://biz.gamedaily.com/industry/feature/?id=15444) .

IrishWhiskey

03-10-2007, 01:09 PM

...Okay. Neither of those criticisms make it bad in any way though.

I think Microsofts statement is the most valid, in that instead of helping supplement game communication, its completely seperate from it. For social networking its fine, but doesn't really enhance online gaming. The fact that there will be no set system or requirements for obtaining game trophies just confirms this further.

Again, this doesn't make Home any worse, its just good to acknowledge what it is. A avatared chat and homepage system separate from the central gaming experience.
.

thecrazyd

03-10-2007, 01:12 PM

doubtingthomas

03-10-2007, 01:14 PM

I don't know much about Nintendo's Wii, specifically what a Mii is, but that comment is odd. Nintendo is implying Sony is ripping off their ideas, but its ideas they rejected years ago??? That doesn't make any sense.

rein

03-10-2007, 01:22 PM

Johan

03-10-2007, 01:24 PM

...this doesn't make Home any worse, its just good to acknowledge what it is. A avatared chat and homepage system separate from the central gaming experience.

And that is exactly why I couldn't care less about the concept. Bring on the games, Sony. Bring on the games. I don't need stupid-ass achievement trophies or a place to talk with twelve-year-olds. Bring on the games.

Hemalin

03-10-2007, 01:27 PM

And that is exactly why I couldn't care less about the concept. Bring on the games, Sony. Bring on the games. I don't need stupid-ass achievement trophies or a place to talk with twelve-year-olds. Bring on the games.
They did bring out a game (http://www.gametrailers.com/gamepage.php?id=4491). Maybe you missed it.

Sloth

03-10-2007, 01:28 PM

thecrazyd

03-10-2007, 01:29 PM

They are saying what they should be saying. It's just funny that Sony gets criticized when they speak out against these two. Truth is, all three of the companies have a right to criticize the competition.
But to criticize them when they do something right? It just makes them look like petty assholes.

EGO

03-10-2007, 01:33 PM

They're not saying Sony ripped off their ideas. Actually, if any of you work in an industry that's driven by ideas for the masses, you find that no idea is made up by one person and one person only.

Ideas are often thought of and cultivated by several people at once. Many companies and people come up with ideas and have never even met each other. That's one of the reasons you see many games that are similar or movies. It's not always so sinister as somebody's being "ripped off", but a natural evolution of ideas brought about by stimulus.

(okay, enough with stuff that may actually make you think and isn't just flame-bait for forum fighters)...

Home is an obvious rip of Second Life, with some Acheivements and Mii's thrown in. Now taking a bunch of different things and improving/putting them together isn't necessarily a bad thing, but let's call a spade a spade.

It's cool to look at for a second, but when you really look at it, it's just too corporate. It's too polished for it's own good and it's not really about "user generated content", but about selling ads, product branding and the only "control" the user has is what direction to slowly move their avatar and a few sliders.

Now BigLittleWorld is different story... *That* is user-generated content and community, not a high-res shopping mall.

Jenga

03-10-2007, 01:36 PM

Home is gonna go to hell pretty quickly...imagine people shouting for virtual cyber-sex, and randomly shouting out racist words. Although, I can't wait to see 4chan raid it.

But to criticize them when they do something right? It just makes them look like petty assholes.It's your opinion when you say doing Habbo-Hotel in 3D is a right thing. What I wanna know, is how Sony will deal with trolls and other idiots. Will they just terminate the user, or just give suspensions for random amounts of time?

Zeal

03-10-2007, 01:40 PM

Dude, I'm not trying to underplay the significance of Home, but people are really not going to spend more than 15 minutes playing with this thing.

It is a repacked idea that has been done a million different times.

J Arcane

03-10-2007, 01:45 PM

"This is an example of Sony's 'Mii-too' approach," said a Nintendo spokesperson to CVG. "But as Mr. Miyamoto states, Nintendo years ago considered and rejected the type of approach Sony is now taking."

This sounds like a bunch of sour grapes bullshit to me.

"Oh we could have done that, but we didn't want to." :rolleyes:

Translation: Fuck, they just beat our ass on this concept, we gotta talk it down and fast.

rein

03-10-2007, 01:45 PM

I have yet to see the connection between Home and Second Life. About the only thing they have in common is that they have a similar look. I wasn't aware that I can launch games and show off my in game achievements with the SL client. I guess I have been missing out by not playing it.

We will have to see how long it takes MS and Nintendo to make a similar interface to see how they really feel about this approach.

Dude, I'm not trying to underplay the significance of Home, but people are really not going to spend more than 15 minutes playing with this thing.

It is a repacked idea that has been done a million different times.

IMO, this is going to be like Wii Sports online. You probably will not spend a great deal of time with it, after all, it is an interface to launch your online games but I can see people hanging out playing pool or bowling while they wait for their group of friends to arrive. Think of how much fun it will be hanging out at BAP's place waiting for everyone to show up for Tuesday Night GRAW.

Wslove

03-10-2007, 01:46 PM

I can't wait for Sony Home. Not because I think it's innovative or anything or that I want to actually do anything with it. But because it is basically Second Life on the PS3 I want to see what happens when the thing devolves into a wretched pit of sexual fetishes like Second Life has become. Hey, maybe Warren Ellis will end up writing a column for Sony Home as well!

RMan

03-10-2007, 01:46 PM

I think the criticisms about it being barely related to gaming and not adding to the game experience is valid, of course, the same is true of media downloads, internet browsing, BluRay, etc. Consumers will still often see these things as adding value to the system, and I think saying any of the consoles are made or bought just for games is not true. My bet is Nintendo rejected the concept as a matter of prioritization, not because it was just a flat out bad idea, I don’t see how the home concept wouldn’t be anything but good for Nintendo’s Mii setup.

IrishWhiskey

03-10-2007, 01:46 PM

It's cool to look at for a second, but when you really look at it, it's just too corporate. It's too polished for it's own good and it's not really about "user generated content", but about selling ads, product branding and the only "control" the user has is what direction to slowly move their avatar and a few sliders.

Now BigLittleWorld is different story... *That* is user-generated content and community, not a high-res shopping mall.Agreed, and that's my main problem with it. Home is not "Game 3.0" or whatever. Its very limited, very strictly controlled, I'm sure will be monitored for copyright violations of images, songs and text, and instead of letting people make their own clothes and furniture, you microtransaction it.

That why I'm excited for Little Big World rather than Home. First of all, it is an actual game, why is the sort of thing that can try and convince me to buy a 600 dollar BluRay player, and second it actually does seem to be sincere about the user created content and cooperative environments. Unless they try selling instead of sharing user created work, I think that game is the real story here.

fitbabits

03-10-2007, 01:47 PM

This is not surprising to me. I suspect both Nintendo and Microsoft (although to a much lesser extent) were taken aback by the reception Home received at GDC.

Heretic Machine

03-10-2007, 01:52 PM

Of course Nintendo rejected the idea. They reject online gaming in general. Microsoft actually has a point, but we already know what Sony's online service is like, so the comment really doesn't tell us anything new when it is aimed specifically at Home.

Sounds like Sony pissed in their cereal. Wonder how long it will take for Mii Connect and URBOX Live to show up?

Goronmon

03-10-2007, 01:54 PM

I remember Home when it was called Active Worlds like a decade ago.

I'll still wait and see what it ends up being, but I'm not really sure why I'm supposed to feel excited about it. Live and Achievements are great, but I don't really spend too much time playing around with it, and for good reason, it's time I would rather spend playing actual games.

But hey, who knows, it might be cool to hand out and change with EvAvers for a bit every now and then.

Grimmjow

03-10-2007, 01:55 PM

Everyone is entitled to there opinions, I personally think Home is going to be awesome. Sometimes I just want to chill in a lobby (ie. in wow i would just stand around and talk to folks). after seeing how they "plan" to integrate the online community (ie. profiles) I think this is a sweet idea. Like Rein mentioned how fun would it be to goto someones place and chill/crack jokes and stuff until a specific event was to happen. PURE awesomeness

Rafer

03-10-2007, 01:57 PM

I like some aspects of Sony's Home, but it seems too elaborate, whats wrong with just a profile? Personally i'd like just a few customization options for my profile, and then just track my game accomplishments. I don't need a virtual world to put myself on display.

There was an interview with Phil Harrison where he said some stuff would be quicker going through the Cross Media Bar (XMB). From what I've seen it looks like a lot of Home could be just a layer of abstraction of stuff in the XMB.

I can see Home be successful as a sort of a non-game that eases people into going online, the chat thing looks very non-intimidating and uncomplicated, sort of like a "my first mmo". To me, it seems like sort of a wading pool to hang out in before going off into the more aggressive online games.

Rock Bandit

03-10-2007, 02:01 PM

Home is pretty easy to brush off if you're the competition. It looks like it'll be more of a fun (and totally optional) interface for PS3 users to tool around in. I'd be more interested on MS's take on LittleBigPlanet because I'd be willing to guess it went along the lines of "Well......shit. That would be a nice one to have on our box." At least that was my thought as a 360 owner.

Kelegacy

03-10-2007, 02:08 PM

fitbabits

03-10-2007, 02:10 PM

It's sort of funny, the way things have died down around here with the recent Sony good news. It feels like the twilight zone. Not unwelcome...just strange.
Some people are never happy, it seems.

MJBuddy

03-10-2007, 02:14 PM

I'm surprised people give a shit at all about either of these things...

Home isn't impressive; it's purposeless in concept, simply adding more time to do things XBL already accomplishes ("Oh let me travel to the arcade to play my arcade game; let's wait for the loading time and go" vs Fast Menu based UI)

It's not original; the entire concept is simply breeds of Second Life, Phantasy Star Online and social networks like Sims online and Habbo. Guess what? I don't play any of those either, because they're all weak concepts.

Phades

03-10-2007, 02:15 PM

Interesting that when Sony makes these kinds of statements they're arrogant bastards. But when Sony or MS makes them, they're just saying what they have to as PR guys.

If it's true that Nintendo considered the idea and then rejected it then they're idiots. We'd much rather have ZERO online plan Nintendo, that's far superior.... ;)

Kelegacy hit the nail on the head regarding Microsoft's response. Kinda hypocritical.

I understand that people feel they "have" to be critical, but I don't see why they can't simply say something like "That looks pretty interesting, but we think our online plan is better." That way they don't come off like a bunch of smug asshats and no better than Sony has come across in the past.

Khash

03-10-2007, 02:18 PM

Gee, I was unaware that Nintendo invented digital avatars.

archon

03-10-2007, 02:20 PM

How is LittleBigPlanet any different from something like Garry's Mod?

Heretic Machine

03-10-2007, 02:23 PM

How is LittleBigPlanet any different from something like Garry's Mod?

...The only thing about LittleBigPlanet that is similar to Garry's Mod at all is that it has physics based gameplay.

archon

03-10-2007, 02:25 PM

...The only thing about LittleBigPlanet that is similar to Garry's Mod at all is that it has physics based gameplay.

Well see that's where I'm confused about it. Everyone seems to be excited about it but I don't really understand what it's about. You create games (mods) in LittleBigPlanet, right? You can do the same in Garry's Mod. How is LittleBigPlanet different from a mod making game?

Johan

03-10-2007, 02:26 PM

They did bring out a game (http://www.gametrailers.com/gamepage.php?id=4491). Maybe you missed it.

Not interested. There's nothing on the PS3 right now that makes me want to open my wallet. There will be in the future, but it's not there yet. LBP is crap to me. That's my opinion; I'm not interested.

Home is gonna go to hell pretty quickly...imagine people shouting for virtual cyber-sex, and randomly shouting out racist words. Although, I can't wait to see 4chan raid it.

Just a matter of time for that to happen. Live has its share of that idiocy, and Sony is only making that even MORE of a possibility here...

It's sort of funny, the way things have died down around here with the recent Sony good news. It feels like the twilight zone. Not unwelcome...just strange.

Frankly, I think too many people are bi-polar or on too much sugar or caffeine. Seriously...Sony wasn't absolute shit before GDC, and, for me, nothing comes out of GDC that makes me slobber all over myself to get the damn thing. I just don't get it, honestly. NOTHING has changed in the real world here...and what they are offering looks to me to be totally useless garbage. I want games...games...games...and online centralization (lacking on the PS3). I'll get a PS3 at some point, when there are compelling games available. There aren't any right now. GDC didn't change that, so people who are flopping about from hate to love are nuts. Moderation is nice.

Heretic Machine

03-10-2007, 02:28 PM

Well see that's where I'm confused about it. Everyone seems to be excited about it but I don't really understand what it's about. You create games (mods) in LittleBigPlanet, right? You can do the same in Garry's Mod. How is LittleBigPlanet different from a mod making game?

Uhh... maybe I'm confused, but I'm under the impression that LittleBigPlanet is a side-scrolling platformer, with amazingly beautiful graphics and a surreal setting.

jonat3

03-10-2007, 02:32 PM

Uhh... maybe I'm confused, but I'm under the impression that LittleBigPlanet is a side-scrolling platformer, with amazingly beautiful graphics and a surreal setting.

No, he's right. You can create your own level from scratch. That's what makes it so interesting.

Kelegacy

03-10-2007, 02:41 PM

Some people are never happy, it seems.
I never said that. I said it felt strange, yet not unwelcome.

Sort of like having donuts every morning but one day the secretary brings in a box of croissants instead. You have grown fat on sugar and sprinkles, so the taste of buttery pastries is foreign to your conditioned taste-buds. You like the taste, but it throws off your day, so when you are driving to the bank during your lunch break to run a quick errand, you wind up thinking about the pleasant taste of the buttery, flaky treat and while immersed in your thoughts you don't see the old couple crossing the street, and in your haste to avoid them at the last minute you hop the curb, skid across the sidewalk and wrap your car around a light pole. However, across town there is a huge fire and your accident has cut off traffic on this very important street and the firetrucks cannot make it to the scene and an entire neighborhood burns to the ground, including an orphanage and an animal shelter (they were connected buildings, sharing a lease). You wind up being out of work for six weeks because of your injuries, and you develop bedsores that don't seem to heal, and they become incredibly infected and painful, attracting the lure of flies and their larvae. One morning, while you are on the toilet, you notice a maggot out of the corner of your eye, wiggling on your left side, peeking from under the bandages covering your sores. You scream and stand up quickly, slip on the tile, and crack your head off the sink. The paramedics show up and find your disgusting corpse and one goes into cardiac arrest (he was quite old, near retirement) and they are unable to save his life. His grandchildren have to grow up without their abuelo, even young Miguel, who had just been born last Tuesday.

Rock Bandit

03-10-2007, 02:43 PM

No, he's right. You can create your own level from scratch. That's what makes it so interesting.
Interesting but a gamble. You're either gonna come across some great levels designed by some young layout prodigies or realize the level you've been running around in has puzzles shaped like a giant wang.

IrishWhiskey

03-10-2007, 02:45 PM

No, he's right. You can create your own level from scratch. That's what makes it so interesting.Well hang on now, lets be clear. They said people would be able to design their own levels. From what I heard, it sounds like there will be a level editor. But it terms of what you use to make the level, chances are you will be fairly limited.

Each one of these gorgeous looking and realistically behaving objects you interact with will come with the game, all take time and effort to make. So in reality the game is like a big obstacle course where you can rearrange the track layout, but can't invent anything yourself or add on new obstacles.

Of course Sony could surprise us all by releasing developing and graphics tools for people to create their own objects, but I just don't see that happening. What they also could do are releasing microtransactioned content packs, but that would be a sort of a bummer.

Heretic Machine

03-10-2007, 02:47 PM

No, he's right. You can create your own level from scratch. That's what makes it so interesting.

...Ok, but what does that have to do with Garry's Mod? Garry's Mod is a sandbox where you screw with objects in the source engine, and occasionally make a funny video or something. LittleBigPlanet is a side-scrolling platformer in which you can apparently make your own levels.

Jack B

03-10-2007, 02:47 PM

I got pretty excited when I first saw Home and I still am very interested, but I watched the Gamespot "On the Spot Episode" and they brought up some good points.

Home is kind of an MMO to hang out with your friends or others. It's cool, but Sony didn't address the details yet. Like.

1. Will all games support trophies (the answer is it's their choice)?

2. Will Home worlds be like servers? Can you find your friends on another server or are you locked into one server? I'd assume you can invite them to your "Home Room" no matter what however, but possibly not the main lobby of your server.

3. How do you do in game chat? Very important.

4. How do you do in game invites? Also, a core piece of functionality.

5. Is this a unified network with all gamer tags visible in game or do you always have to exit games and go back to your Home World or home room?

6. Will you be able to invite everyone in an online game to leave the game and teleport to your Home Room or lobby? If so, that would be cool.

If it's just a big MMO, that requires you to exit out of your games to visit, it's still cool, but they need to fix the other stuff too. I love the Youtube type idea, that you can upload your own videos etc, for your Home Room. Cool stuff.

Anyway, I like this idea, but it needs to be more than the 2nd coming of 2nd Life to fulfill my initial hopes.

EGO

03-10-2007, 02:58 PM

First of all, there's no game making mod on consoles, to speak of, so that makes LBP exciting.

Secondly, it's not just about platforming, it's about using materials and the editor to construct your world. With the physics system, I'm sure people can make some robust adventures. Also, with the jet pack I saw and ability to throw stuff, you could probably make a halfway decent shooter (not FPS for you kiddies, but a shooter in the true sense).

Thirdly, they talked about/showed a rating system for "worlds" that are uploaded, so you won't be in someone's crap level for long, since the cream will rise to the top. Again, that game is engaging the community, versus shovelling stuff at them (like Home).

LBP is only "crap" to people that don't understand it or are "too cool" for something that isn't just a rehash of Brotherhood of Medal of Duty Honor or Whirl of Warcrack.

MJBuddy

03-10-2007, 03:08 PM

Hemalin

03-10-2007, 03:10 PM

It's crap to people that want to spend the few hours they get to game actually playing games, not making them. Sandbox games are for hours upon hours of basement dwelling play; they take time and effort to see any sort of return.
That's why if you don't want to make anything, you don't have to. All you have to do is play the levels that other people make.

bapenguin

03-10-2007, 03:11 PM

Microsoft, with their 100% gaming focus. That's why we have HD-DVD add-on, downloadable episodes of tv shows, movie rentals, music videos, and tons of other useless shit clogging up the Live Marketplace. I'd say games might make up half, or less.

It's sort of funny, the way things have died down around here with the recent Sony good news. It feels like the twilight zone. Not unwelcome...just strange.

It just lends credence to the fact that the site members were never necessarily ANTI-SONY, but rather ANTI-WHAT SONY IS OFFERING. The fanboys simply couldn't understand that.

bapenguin

03-10-2007, 03:12 PM

EGO

03-10-2007, 03:16 PM

It's crap to people that want to spend the few hours they get to game actually playing games, not making them. Sandbox games are for hours upon hours of basement dwelling play; they take time and effort to see any sort of return.

Generalizing that because a "happy smiley" game doesn't appeal to me I must require my braindead quota WWII game is absurd, and it makes you look like an asshole elitest for basically throwing yourself upon a game you know nothing about and denouncing the folks who simply aren't impressed by another demo from Sony that backs nothing substantial up. Pull your head outta yours ass, please.

I understand limited time and the need to have an engaging experience, versus a sandbox game. I personally don't have time for, nor do I play GTA's or WOW's or even FF's, because I don't have the time.

LBP seems interesting to me because it's quick, pick up and "play", doesn't require a large commitment and will always have new content that can be filtered by the rantings given by the people that do have lots of time.

As for me "knowing nothing about" LBP, don't assume that because some one is on a public forum that they "know nothing" (although it's a safe assumption, because forum fighters seem to be quite clueless). Shit, I could be Bill Gates, for all you know (I'm not BTW). Either way, my knowledge of the game isn't based upon same grainy video, I've actually seen it and believe me, it's brill...

I feel sorry for those that will miss out.

Khash

03-10-2007, 03:16 PM

I think home looks absolutely great. I just hope it's very streamlined, and there's not a lot of "extra" stuff you have to do to get a game going with a bunch of friends. Like, I hope there's an ability to simply just all jump into a room, house, whatever without actually WALKING there.
They've said that all that stuff can be done on the XMB. Also, if you watch the keynote video it shows a 'map' that lets you select where you want to go and you just sort of teleport there.

LynnD

03-10-2007, 03:22 PM

Compare Home and Live services and you will see the advantages of Live.

Home achievements can only be compared when both players are online at the same time. When you log off of Home all you achievements go with you.

Live Achievements can be compared anytime. Also, Live is intergrated into Xbox.com making everything much easier. Ask yourself, Where do you look at achievements most? On your Xbox or on Xbox.com?

Match making on Live is quick and easy. On Home I will need to log off the game I am playing. Log on to Home. Find people in the Home lobby and then launch the game again. How is that making things easier?

Home should be viewed for what it is. A social network. All gaming functions can be done better and faster on Live.

mkelehan

03-10-2007, 03:26 PM

Saying that it's a knockoff of the Mii is foolish. Nintendo didn't invent the concept of avatars.

LynnD

03-10-2007, 03:26 PM

They've said that all that stuff can be done on the XMB.

Why do you need Home then? It will be just a social network with all gaming done from the XMB. Sony still needs to fix the lack of a unified friends list and about a dozen other features to match Live.

crashedout

03-10-2007, 03:28 PM

Put me in the minority of not excited as Sony has not met my expectations on anything this generation. However this could be a chance to change that. I personally think that they will mess this up too, but at least it is a ray of hope.

Nessus

03-10-2007, 03:28 PM

Does anyone know if LittleBigPlanet has enemies? I haven't seen any in any of the videos I've watched.

So far in the videos I haven't seen any incredibly compelling use of the amazing physics engine, so I'm not sure the physics can make up for the lack of enemies, if indeed there are no enemies. Like, the jetpack/bungie cord thing near the end of one level just looked complicated, waiting for the other players to figure it out so they could progress.

Don't get me wrong, I'm very excited about this game. It looks beautiful and is the first thing on PS3 I've been interested in. I just think it could get old pretty quickly if there are no enemies and if all you're doing is stacking oranges so you can reach a higher platform.

As for Home, it reminds me far too much of Second Life for me not to be weary.

Johan

03-10-2007, 03:42 PM

Does anyone know if LittleBigPlanet has enemies?

Microsoft and Nintendo? :D

BigLittlePlanet isn't happy about it, either...

Schnoogs

03-10-2007, 03:47 PM

They did bring out a game (http://www.gametrailers.com/gamepage.php?id=4491). Maybe you missed it.

Sweet...I'm gonna go buy this right now.

Oh wait its not out yet...still waiting for those games.

rein

03-10-2007, 03:59 PM

Why do you need Home then? It will be just a social network with all gaming done from the XMB. Sony still needs to fix the lack of a unified friends list and about a dozen other features to match Live.

Why? Because it's fucking cool.

Care to back up your comments about what Home will and will not have? I wasn't aware that all of the details had been released. As far as I know, Home will have a unified friends list.

BTW, welcome to the site.

Odyzen

03-10-2007, 04:18 PM

It's funny how most people are just saying negative things and defending their position rather than having a discussing the interest of the topic. Another reason why this place isn't anti-Sony but pro-negative new.

I think the responses from Nintendo and Microsoft fits their agenda and direction of their console. Nintendo is all about simple intuitive fun. So when Nintendo toyed with the idea of something similar they felt was too complicated to the consumer and it ended being Nintendo's Mii. Microsoft's is the same thing. Xbox Live is all about the centralized gaming approach so why wouldn't they promote something they do have that is not apparent in Home.

How do we know that there isn't a centralized gaming hub? We only had a glimpse of Home. It doesn't show enough to make those assumption. Just because it hasn't been shown why do people make the assumption the PS3 Home won't have it?

karak

03-10-2007, 04:23 PM

They did bring out a game (http://www.gametrailers.com/gamepage.php?id=4491). Maybe you missed it.
One...game. See to me this is worrisome. What is to say Sony won't change their minds again when they have hard times. If Little Big Planet has been in development for awhile its going to take a ton of time for people to catch up. Oppertunity that will be lost when MS and Nintendo eat away their market share. Future investiment is nothing when no one is there to see it. I think people are jumping on the wagon because its nice that Sony did something. But that something isn't about games. I love that its free, but then that negates its worth to me, I would use it but I have to go back and say what else is there then for that system.

MORGiON

03-10-2007, 04:25 PM

Why? Because it's fucking cool.

I agree with rein completly. My brother and myself were discussing Home yesterday, after watching the footage of it, We are looking forward to being able to have a chat on bluetooth headsets while playing some pool or having a game of tenpin bowling. (would it be possible to have a virtual bowling league?)

From everything that has been released about Home it's OPTIONAL. The XMB will sill be fully functional including the friends lists etc... (I beleive some stuff still needs to be added to the XMB in the 1.6 update)

I think alot of people are underestamiting what is possible with Home. What will all the Singstar & EyeToy fans think of it??? Virtual Dance Partys??? Karoakie??

SalaciousPuck

03-10-2007, 04:40 PM

When I buy game X and want to play it......I don't want to enter my virtual home (pick a new color for the carpet), walk to the virtual lobby, talk to a bunch of other avatars until a group is formed - just to start a game. Great online games - Half Life/CS, Battlefield(s), Halo 2, everything by Blizzard since Diablo - all have one thing in common.....you are one click and maybe a double click more to online play.

With that said....I can see where adding a commons would improve on a XBL style service. If what they are talking about in Home is just what's different from XBL, this might be a great improvement.

What scares me lately is Sony's repeated tendency to lose focus of its audience with the PS3 - the gamer. They seem to think that because of the success of the PS & PS2 they don't even have to compete, and it's a forgone conclusion that everyone will game on Sony products. The lack of rumble, the PS3's sticker price and their ignoring online gaming this long are all examples of this. This lack of focus is where every fumble comes from them lately and is why their spokespeople all sound so arrogant lately, IMO.

Time will tell, but Home better be alot more focused on throwing together people for online gaming, rather than organizing furniture or it will be a disaster.

Achilles

03-10-2007, 04:57 PM

That's kinda weak. Acting like pricks because they didn't think of it first.

And that Nintendo line about how they rejected the idea years ago is lame. Sounds like they are jealous of the good press Sony is finally getting.I don't think you're right on this one at all. I have no doubt that both MS and Nintendo thought of and rejected this idea long ago for a number of very good reasons. I'm sure once it appears on the PS3, whenever that will actually be, it won't be what people think it will be. As others are saying it's a glorified chat room. Well what if the chatroom is empty or full of the crowd from second life. What if games don't support rewards. What if Sony sells the accessories that it's going to offer as downloads. etc. Something like this would require extensive cooperation from all Sony's publishing partners and an amazing integration into the gaming experience in order not to just end up as a pictochat.

Huricos

03-10-2007, 04:58 PM

Time will tell, but Home better be alot more focused on throwing together people for online gaming, rather than organizing furniture or it will be a disaster.
Actually no, it would be a raging success. Just for another demographic: the decorating, giggling, avatar make-over...ing, wallpapering nude pictures, cybersexing, 14 year old girls.

They LOVE this shit.

IrishWhiskey

03-10-2007, 04:59 PM

Why? Because it's fucking cool.

Care to back up your comments about what Home will and will not have? I wasn't aware that all of the details had been released. As far as I know, Home will have a unified friends list.

BTW, welcome to the site.I think you completely missed the point there. Its not that he wants Home to have a unified friends list. Its that we wants online PS3 gaming to have a unified friends list, so you have to add them as a friend just once, and not every time you get a new game.

Which I guess says it all really. He was focused on what this would do for gaming (next to nothing) and you were focused on the possibilities of the social network system. I'm not judging, just saying the reason why you have different views on this announcement is cause your looking for different things.

pseudopseudo

03-10-2007, 05:02 PM

I don't think I've seen it in this thread, so I'll bring it up:

Has anyone forgotten that more than likely, stuff in Home will NOT be free? Sony seems to loves microtransactions (What big company doesn't?), and this is a potential CASH COW for them.

To my knowledge, there hasn't been any announcement of costs of things (other than the program itself, which'll be free), but I think it'd be naive to think that ALL the cool stuff you want to do is going to be absolutely free.

Better start saving up if you want a cool "room". ;)

Hemalin

03-10-2007, 05:03 PM

Sweet...I'm gonna go buy this right now.

Oh wait its not out yet...still waiting for those games.
Oh, I thought we were talking about the thread topic. Silly me.

Hemalin

03-10-2007, 05:08 PM

I think you completely missed the point there. Its not that he wants Home to have a unified friends list. Its that we wants online PS3 gaming to have a unified friends list, so you have to add them as a friend just once, and not every time you get a new game.
Well, we don't know either way yet. Sony might implement a unified friends list, they might not.
Has anyone forgotten that more than likely, stuff in Home will NOT be free? Sony seems to loves microtransactions (What big company doesn't?), and this is a potential CASH COW for them.

To my knowledge, there hasn't been any announcement of costs of things (other than the program itself, which'll be free), but I think it'd be naive to think that ALL the cool stuff you want to do is going to be absolutely free.
That will come down to developers. If they want to give you a free wallpaper to advertise their game, they will, or they might charge you for it. It will be like the Live Marketplace, some things will be a ripoff some will be free.

LynnD

03-10-2007, 05:12 PM

Why? Because it's fucking cool.

Care to back up your comments about what Home will and will not have? I wasn't aware that all of the details had been released. As far as I know, Home will have a unified friends list.

BTW, welcome to the site.

My information came from the official FAQ.

http://www.scedev.net/home/Third%20Party%20Relations%20Q%26A.pdf

PS3 online games do not have a unified friends list. Home does nothing for gaming. It is a social network and nothing more.

Why do you think it is so cool? Must be the social aspect of Home. Maybe you like walking around in a virtual world talking to people you don`t know. I do not. I want Sony to fix the gaming side of their system. A unified friends list would be a much better addition to PSN than Home. It is a GAME console is it not?

karak

03-10-2007, 05:20 PM

karak

03-10-2007, 05:22 PM

Actually no, it would be a raging success. Just for another demographic: the decorating, giggling, avatar make-over...ing, wallpapering nude pictures, cybersexing, 14 year old girls.

They LOVE this shit.
It's not as simple as all that. You forget that many of the people that buy those games and do those things aren't going to spend 600 bucks when they can and are already doing that same thing in countless 3d avatar systems that are free on pc and more easily understood by that same crowd.

Schnoogs

03-10-2007, 05:30 PM

Oh, I thought we were talking about the thread topic. Silly me.

You're silly because you suggested to someone that should buy a PS3 now for a game that won't come out til 2008.

so yes...silly you

Grimmjow

03-10-2007, 05:32 PM

It's not as simple as all that. You forget that many of the people that buy those games and do those things aren't going to spend 600 bucks when they can and are already doing that same thing in countless 3d avatar systems that are free on pc and more easily understood by that same crowd.

but you have to also remember that not every computer user know whats out there on the interwebs. ALOT don't even know how to use simple functions. So if a average consumer doesn't have a super computer or the knowledge to have access to this "3d avatar" they will simply see this as an positive for a gaming system.

Grimmjow

03-10-2007, 05:33 PM

You're silly because you suggested to someone that should buy a PS3 now for a game that won't come out til 2008.

so yes...silly you

you mean fall 2007 right?

Hemalin

03-10-2007, 05:45 PM

You're silly because you suggested to someone that should buy a PS3 now for a game that won't come out til 2008.

so yes...silly you

And that is exactly why I couldn't care less about the concept. Bring on the games, Sony. Bring on the games. I don't need stupid-ass achievement trophies or a place to talk with twelve-year-olds. Bring on the games.
They did bring out a game. Maybe you missed it.
Where did I say he should buy a PS3 for LBP?

karak

03-10-2007, 05:45 PM

but you have to also remember that not every computer user know whats out there on the interwebs. ALOT don't even know how to use simple functions. So if a average consumer doesn't have a super computer or the knowledge to have access to this "3d avatar" they will simply see this as an positive for a gaming system.
Exactly. That also proves my point that they wont pay 600 for a system Just to test something they don't know how to use. It's a strange jump of logic to think someone would pay 600 to test something or just test it on their computer at first.
But I think I have been thinking about this all wrong. I don't care about what Sony is doing, I think Home is useless...but how will the other companies trully react in a business sense? Do they care? Is it a big deal to them or will they take a wait and see attitude? I am more excited for that than Home. Now that I have read around the internet and seen that many people are thinking Home is ok, and not the second coming and as the excitement wears down even more. What will occur then? It is exciting no matter what.

mister_slim

03-10-2007, 05:48 PM

Certain things will work much better on Home than on Live. For example, the Street Fighter II quarters system would work really nicely built into a virtual arcade in Home.

Norse

03-10-2007, 05:59 PM

Nintendo's reaction was a bit strange, but I don't see anything wrong with Microsoft's response. The guy actually said LBP and Home looked cool, that's more than Sony have ever said about anything from MS/Nintendo.

temmink

03-10-2007, 06:00 PM

THIS thread is an example of why I don't normally read comments.

Aleman

03-10-2007, 06:00 PM

The best comment I've read on Home came from some guy on Daily Tech.

"3D sausage fest? No thanks, I'm good."

Flatpicker

03-10-2007, 06:08 PM

So let me see. I'm supposed to be excited by Sony's announcement of an updated clockwork knight type 2.5 sidescroller and a UI interface system that will be more complicated than clicking on a friend's name and inviting them to play a game.

At some point I'm going to get a PS3, but not for these offerings.
Are expectations for Sony set so low, that this is being treated like some great work.
I'm losing interest in Sony's system bit by bit, and day by day. VF5 caught my attention, good GAMES catch my attention. the rest is smoke and mirrors.

joshkdmw

03-10-2007, 06:11 PM

jeffool

03-10-2007, 06:29 PM

Sort of like having donuts every morning but one day the secretary brings in a box of croissants instead. You have grown fat on sugar and sprinkles, so the taste of buttery pastries is foreign to your conditioned taste-buds. You like the taste, but it throws off your day, so when you are driving to the bank during your lunch break to run a quick errand, you wind up thinking about the pleasant taste of the buttery, flaky treat and while immersed in your thoughts you don't see the old couple crossing the street, and in your haste to avoid them at the last minute you hop the curb, skid across the sidewalk and wrap your car around a light pole. However, across town there is a huge fire and your accident has cut off traffic on this very important street and the firetrucks cannot make it to the scene and an entire neighborhood burns to the ground, including an orphanage and an animal shelter (they were connected buildings, sharing a lease). You wind up being out of work for six weeks because of your injuries, and you develop bedsores that don't seem to heal, and they become incredibly infected and painful, attracting the lure of flies and their larvae. One morning, while you are on the toilet, you notice a maggot out of the corner of your eye, wiggling on your left side, peeking from under the bandages covering your sores. You scream and stand up quickly, slip on the tile, and crack your head off the sink. The paramedics show up and find your disgusting corpse and one goes into cardiac arrest (he was quite old, near retirement) and they are unable to save his life. His grandchildren have to grow up without their abuelo, even young Miguel, who had just been born last Tuesday.Oddly, that's exactly what I thought when Sony came with something I liked. (LBP.)

Jack B

03-10-2007, 07:07 PM

It just lends credence to the fact that the site members were never necessarily ANTI-SONY, but rather ANTI-WHAT SONY IS OFFERING. The fanboys simply couldn't understand that.

That's my take too. My sig speaks to that exact point.

EDIT: Just the John Maynard Keyes quote not the Boobie Car picture. :o

Wolvie

03-10-2007, 07:31 PM

JimmyDanger

03-10-2007, 08:15 PM

Don't I already have a similar thing in the DOA4 online lobby rooms?

Oh - I can't change the carpet...

Really too early to judge this methinks.

Still - it's an unwritten rule in business - most of the time - bashing your competitors just brings you down to their level and makes you look petty - and makes the consumer think you've got another agenda, rather than just being "critical".

It seems MS are aware of this and Nintendo aren't.

Sony have found this unwritten rule to be somewhat bad for PR if you break it too often..

Wolvie

03-10-2007, 08:25 PM

Yep, MS knows all too well that slamming the competition is bad for business. Sony learned that the hard way(I hope), and it seems Nintendo needs a lil education in that sector of gaming PR.

Johan

03-10-2007, 09:18 PM

My information came from the official FAQ.

http://www.scedev.net/home/Third%20Party%20Relations%20Q%26A.pdf

PS3 online games do not have a unified friends list. Home does nothing for gaming. It is a social network and nothing more.

Why do you think it is so cool? Must be the social aspect of Home. Maybe you like walking around in a virtual world talking to people you don`t know. I do not. I want Sony to fix the gaming side of their system. A unified friends list would be a much better addition to PSN than Home. It is a GAME console is it not?

My perspective as well. I am NOT interested in getting chatty with tweens and teens online. I hear enough of their crap in multiplayer matches online, and don't want to subject myself to that any more than is absolutely necessary to get my multiplayer gaming in.

Really too early to judge this methinks.

This is, I think, the most FASCINATING aspect of the whole thing. I've seen several individuals here on EvAv do what I would describe as a 180 degree turnabout, from amazing apathy and negativity toward Sony, to falling over themselves in excitement. I just don't get either stance, really. And considering Sony's recent track record, it might be wise to wait to be excited until features/games are actually OUT and IMPLEMENTED. :D

I actually WANT a reason to buy a PS3. I could buy TEN of them with my tax return (the 60Gb version), but I NEED A REASON!!! This isn't it for me. :(

Rook34

03-10-2007, 09:46 PM

My perspective as well. I am NOT interested in getting chatty with tweens and teens online. I hear enough of their crap in multiplayer matches online, and don't want to subject myself to that any more than is absolutely necessary to get my multiplayer gaming in.

This is, I think, the most FASCINATING aspect of the whole thing. I've seen several individuals here on EvAv do what I would describe as a 180 degree turnabout, from amazing apathy and negativity toward Sony, to falling over themselves in excitement. I just don't get either stance, really. And considering Sony's recent track record, it might be wise to wait to be excited until features/games are actually OUT and IMPLEMENTED. :D

I actually WANT a reason to buy a PS3. I could buy TEN of them with my tax return (the 60Gb version), but I NEED A REASON!!! This isn't it for me. :(

You have 6K? Dude! Where's the love?

*sigh* I need a rich friend...

Johan

03-10-2007, 10:05 PM

You have 6K? Dude! Where's the love?

*sigh* I need a rich friend...

$6,400, actually! Children...lots of itemized deductions...a home business (losses/expenses are often as good as earnings!) and assorted other doo-dads!

I got MORE last year. :( I need more kids... :eek:

Rafer

03-10-2007, 10:20 PM

Don't I already have a similar thing in the DOA4 online lobby rooms?

My impression was that Home will eventually be a sort of generic lobby for different games. Like instead of each game having customized lobby code, the lobby for games will be created within the context of Home? Although this is probably a while off as I keep reading about developers having had no clue what direction online was supposed to take.

BlackPete

03-10-2007, 10:32 PM

Yep, MS knows all too well that slamming the competition is bad for business. Sony learned that the hard way(I hope), and it seems Nintendo needs a lil education in that sector of gaming PR.

What was really striking to me was that Nintendo actually commented at all. They're pretty infamous for not saying a single word until the very last minute, or that they simply refuse to talk about anyone or anything other than what they're offering.

The fact that it was a negative comment was just icing on the cake.

RUSKULL

03-10-2007, 11:38 PM

Whatever the case, if Nintendo's philosophy was to push gaming into the next level by a successful idea, then Sony has done exactly that with "Home". All this negative talk about Sony until now? they gotta be doing something right, even if it ends up screwing people in the end, who knows? Gamers seem to be reacting to it positively, that's all I gotta say.

Grimmjow

03-10-2007, 11:43 PM

$6,400, actually! Children...lots of itemized deductions...a home business (losses/expenses are often as good as earnings!) and assorted other doo-dads!

I got MORE last year. :( I need more kids... :eek:

Making kids is always fun :D

IRONGUSTAV

03-11-2007, 12:10 AM

IRONGUSTAV

03-11-2007, 12:12 AM

It seems MS are aware of this

are u sure?major nelson podcast?

score

03-11-2007, 03:02 AM

"This is an example of Sony's 'Mii-too' approach," said a Nintendo spokesperson to CVG. "But as Mr. Miyamoto states, Nintendo years ago considered and rejected the type of approach Sony is now taking."

That's the type of comment that routinely comes back and kicks MS in the butt. I expect no different for Nintendo.

Zeal

03-11-2007, 03:20 AM

Nintendo lives in somekind of fantasy land.

BigJonno

03-11-2007, 05:46 AM

For the record, I LOVE virtual world type thingies. I love the idea of it is an alternative to the internet is at is today (see Snow Crash.) I love getting to know random people from across the globe. I actually have a Second Life account that sees regular use, mainly for roleplaying and as an admittedly convoluted alternative to internet radio. :D I also have a preference for console gaming over PC gaming, I'm a sofa guy, not a desk guy. In short, I'm exactly the sort of person who is going lap this shit up.

Even disregarding the fact that it's going to be at least a year or so before the PS3 has a price/catalogue balance that makes it worthwhile purchase, it is not going to get me to forget everything Sony has done that has pissed me off and rush out to get one. For starters, I don't see how it's going to enhance my gaming. Even if it had a feature set comparable to Xbox Live, I'm guessing that I'd just use the XMB to do everything. Like many have said, I don't want to piss about every time I want to play a game. That leaves its social aspect, its inherent value as a product and unless it has completely open, user-created content then it's not going to be able to touch Second Life. To me, the whole point of SL is that if I'm in the mood for some dystopian future cyberpunk roleplay, I can jump into a dystopian future cyberpunk roleplay sim. If I want katana duels in medieval Japan, I can go do that too. If I want kinky, lesbian, furry dominatr...ahem. :o Just a for instance, y'know? ;)

I'm sure I'd play around with Home, but it certainly doesn't seem to be a system-seller. LBP, on the other hand, is going on my very short list of games that I'd buy a PS3 for.

I agree that Nintendo's response was a little childish ("Sony ripped off our idea that we had first but didn't do because it was crap!") but Microsoft's was typically good MS PR ("It's cool and we had toyed with the idea, but it doesn't fit with what we are doing.") It doesn't take a genius to think this kind of thing up and I can certainly imagine all three companies working on the same kind of thing.

What Sony have done, though, is taken a couple of steps in the right direction. I don't like Sony, but, before the Xbox, I didn't like MS much either. I'm really hoping that this is a return to early PS1 era Sony where they had to work their arses off to impress everyone, knew it and did it. I'm just afraid the Giant Sony Ray of Corporate Fucktardness is going to zap everything again.

Royal Fool

03-11-2007, 06:12 AM

I personally think Home will play a significant role in the PS3's future.

Phanto

03-11-2007, 06:58 AM

I don't know why but as soon as Sony announce the "Home" thing I was thinking that something like that for some reason It don't fit in Sony's ground I mean having a house and decorating it ?? That sounds more like a Nintendo thing and don't get me wrong I'm not saying this was Nintendo idea but for some reason it would have suited more to Nintendo with the Miis, if only they just have launched something like that at launch with Wii Sports online things would be much different but I'll guess I can't ask much out of Nintendo.

Jack B

03-11-2007, 09:35 AM

So I have spent the last 2 days explaining this to poeple and showing them the movies and all that. Not a single one is interested. I keep hearing, "I would use it for 10 minutes. Or I have played Second life, even if it has more stuff its still that kind of thing. This was supposed to be some system that could take over the world with its power in actual game titles." Its only about 25 or 30 people I am talking about obviously. And many of them checked the stuff out before I even got a chance to ask them what they thought. But the general theme was Sony didn't fail at this GDC but they didn't succeed and people are getting way to excited about a single aspect of a system and not even the aspect the system's strengths and prowess is supposed to be in.

That's interesting. My expectation would be that people would generally be wowed by Home. Only once they thought about it a bit deeper would they say, "hmmm, cool, but maybe we should see how games on PSN integrate with each other and Home first, before passing final judgement". My guess would have been that the average gamer wouldn't think that hard. Kind of like all the, "but Sony's PSN will be the same as Live and FREE" comments the average gamer made before the PS3 launch. People generally don't think that hard about new features. I didn't until a day after I saw Home for the first time. I still really like the idea, I just am concerned about unified in game functionality. If we get both, then Booyah! :D If not, then... :(

Anyway, the buzz for Sony seemed to get much more positive at GDC. What is interesting to me is that actual games seemed to be few and far between. Microsoft seemed to be showcasing a bunch of games coming out in 2007 and Sony was focused on Home and Little Big Planet.

Trazzlo the Magnificant

03-11-2007, 09:41 AM

Home is interesting, but its still about selling "potential" for last years console. If 100 million people love Home, and buy a PS3 then its a good thing. Right up until you try to figure out how to get your group of friends to meet up in a world (or several server worlds) to play LittleBigPlanet on release day, with 100 million others.

I don't want to communicate with 100 million people. I can do about 4 or 6, so filtering needs to be in place. Smart filtering.

The idea has potential, but it also has technical issues. Server costs, bandwidth costs, development costs, customer service and technical support costs, and in game policing costs all add up to a lot more than "free".

People hear "free" and assume its actually free. Free can mean the software is free and the two week trial is free, but then its a monthly charge. Or, the game and character creation are free, and the lobbies, but the apartments and group halls are monthly fees or one time costs. Items to decorate might be microtransactions.

You get a bunch of people together, chat it up in an apartment, then access a game ... do your chat channels migrate to every game? That would be handy if it does; if it doesn't then it adds another layer of management because you have to create channels twice.

Its a nice idea, but I doubt "free" will be the price you pay. It needs to be paid for, to make it viable. If you don't think so, then just ask a Sony shareholder their opinion of the "success" of a free massively multiplayer system. WoW might be making over $100 million a month on subscriptions, but Sony wants to do it for free?

We don't have all of the information. What it can really do, how far it will go, how common it will be to all games it supports, and how much it will really cost.

Jack B

03-11-2007, 09:44 AM

Very cool idea they got there, it'll be nice to see where it takes them. I'm not sure if the system will disconnect gamers as MS says, but they have a valid point that it might do just that, from what we've seen anyways.
Nintendo's comments were pretty weak however, kinda like sour grapes. Yes the idea has a rip-off feel, what with the 3D avatars and all, but it's more then just lil characters running around, it's characters interacting in a 3D world...kinda like a big chat room.

I still can't see spending $500/$600 on a video game system, especially after investing in a 360, and a Wii...but we shall see. Bring the games, bring the fun, shut the fuck up and quit being smug assholes, and we shall talk about that later Sony. :D

I'd agree with all 3 of your points.

On your first point about disconnecting you from your game to get into Home. My guess is Live wouldn't be able to support Home type functionality in game and either would PSN. You'd probably need to have

1. Everyone exit their game. Say Motorstorm.
2. Launch Home, which looks like a complete MMO type game, so it wouldn't be like hitting the silver X button in Live, it's like launching a game.
3. Meet up on a Home server and walk somewhere or maybe teleport to someone's home room. I assume it will be easy to teleport. Hope I don't need directions while walking.
4. Decide which game to play, Say Resistance and then launch that game.

That doesn't sound that cool, when I think about it. Nor would I do that very often. It's extra steps.

I think watching downloaded YouTube type movies or trailers or similar might be cool in someone's personal Home room, or even walking around exploring might be cool. Or looking at a few trophies. Especially, if I can visit a friend's home room while they aren't home or online.

I like the idea of walking up to a video screen in Home and seeing some trailer. On the other hand, I'd probably want to make it full screen. I'm hoping you can. I wonder if there will be load times?

I like the idea of Street Fighter quarters with actual people putting quarters up while you play. Note: I don't play fighting games, but it still sounds like a real arcade. Although, as laggy as fighting games can be on Live, I wonder if Street Fighter would work. Frogger type games might be a better bet.

This should be interesting.

Jack B

03-11-2007, 09:53 AM

The idea has potential, but it also has technical issues. Server costs, bandwidth costs, development costs, customer service and technical support costs, and in game policing costs all add up to a lot more than "free".

People hear "free" and assume its actually free. Free can mean the software is free and the two week trial is free, but then its a monthly charge. Or, the game and character creation are free, and the lobbies, but the apartments and group halls are monthly fees or one time costs. Items to decorate might be microtransactions.

Wow. Good point. I just assumed free. Of course I'd expect to pay for stuff to decorate my room and that type of thing, but you bring up a good point about server costs.

This is an MMO. It very likely may not be free. If Sony later announces, it's not free. Look out for huge backlash. They'll lose most of the goodwill they've built up this week. Yikes! :eek:

I'm guessing you'll see them pressed in interviews to explain what parts are free very soon.

Johan

03-11-2007, 10:03 AM

We don't have all of the information. What it can really do, how far it will go, how common it will be to all games it supports, and how much it will really cost.

You make some great points. What I've been trying to get across since this announcement at GDC is that, for people who are suddenly incredibly excited, you might want to put the brakes on a bit and let this thing play out in the real world...with concrete details, not exciting promises and possibilities. Have so many of us become such suckers that, after all the lies of the past couple of years, we suddenly BUY ANOTHER ONE? Let this thing actually develop and WORK in real life. There are many hurdles to overcome...

torrefaction

03-11-2007, 10:11 AM

It just lends credence to the fact that the site members were never necessarily ANTI-SONY, but rather ANTI-WHAT SONY IS OFFERING. The fanboys simply couldn't understand that.

Personally, I'm anti- how sony acts as a corporation towards me, as well as anti-what sony is offering. The key here is that what they are offering could eventually override as a purchasing decision, it just makes them work a lot harder.

They still haven't legitimately fixed my second concern, other than a nice quirky game. They definitely have a long ways to go as far as my first concern.

Good steps though, I'll certainly give them that.

TheFlyingOrc

03-11-2007, 10:41 AM

It just lends credence to the fact that the site members were never necessarily ANTI-SONY, but rather ANTI-WHAT SONY IS OFFERING. The fanboys simply couldn't understand that.

I disagree. I honestly feel very uncomfortable when a lot of people freak out over something I don't care about. It has reduced my posting because I feel uncomfortable.

TheFlyingOrc

03-11-2007, 10:42 AM

Saying that it's a knockoff of the Mii is foolish. Nintendo didn't invent the concept of avatars.

That's not what Nintendo is criticizing - they're criticizing the stylistic and strategic approach, not the avatars themselves - Sony is attempting to use similar methods to go after the same audience.

TheFlyingOrc

03-11-2007, 10:52 AM

Wow. Good point. I just assumed free. Of course I'd expect to pay for stuff to decorate my room and that type of thing, but you bring up a good point about server costs.

This is an MMO. It very likely may not be free. If Sony later announces, it's not free. Look out for huge backlash. They'll lose most of the goodwill they've built up this week. Yikes! :eek:

I'm guessing you'll see them pressed in interviews to explain what parts are free very soon.

At the very least, adding something like Home would delay the amount of time/size of a PS3 price drop.

Grimmjow

03-11-2007, 11:34 AM

Wow. Good point. I just assumed free. Of course I'd expect to pay for stuff to decorate my room and that type of thing, but you bring up a good point about server costs.

This is an MMO. It very likely may not be free. If Sony later announces, it's not free. Look out for huge backlash. They'll lose most of the goodwill they've built up this week. Yikes! :eek:

I'm guessing you'll see them pressed in interviews to explain what parts are free very soon.

I think the Home service will be free but I didn't expect to get the extra stuff to decorate my room or changing the way I look free, first thing I thought was gotta pay for it, so i assumed thats how they would pay for server cost.

DangerousDaze

03-11-2007, 11:38 AM

There will be a base level for free. A free home, free clothing, furniture, avatar looks etc. Then there will be "free" content that becomes available when you buy a game, for example branded clothing, wall coverings etc. Finally there will be premium content, like bigger homes, clothes, avatar customisations, window views, etc.

Home isn't a persistant world, which means it looks like your homes will be run off your PS3, not hosted on a server. Of course all the public areas will have to be hosted somewhere so Sony will still need to stump up for a pretty big server farm(s).

Grimmjow

03-11-2007, 11:40 AM

Trazzlo the Magnificant

03-11-2007, 11:41 AM

I think the Home service will be free but I didn't expect to get the extra stuff to decorate my room or changing the way I look free, first thing I thought was gotta pay for it, so i assumed thats how they would pay for server cost.

I would assume so too, yet Sony still is holding onto the "free" wording. It means its open to interpretation, and that the actual prices might not yet be set. Which in turn means that the amount of "free" and the true costs of "free" are still unknown.

And the more the actual price is for customers, the fewer might actually partake when the "truly free" service is still available and works just as well (as some Sony fans seem to be indicating).

Grimmjow

03-11-2007, 11:48 AM

That is true,until its officially released we will just be guessing or assuming :)

Trazzlo the Magnificant

03-11-2007, 11:50 AM

Home isn't a persistant world, which means it looks like your homes will be run off your PS3, not hosted on a server. Of course all the public areas will have to be hosted somewhere so Sony will still need to stump up for a pretty big server farm(s).

So, it really is a P2P in 3D thingy? They should make a little robot thingy called P2P3D, have it make cute noises, and be generally cute to kids.

But, if everyone hosts content on their PS3 then its P2P technology, and we all know how much SonyBMG loves that stuff. Will we ever get to see a Sony vs Sony lawsuit?

For this world to seem useful, I would think most PS3's need to remain online (I assume in the world itself; have Home running). Seems weird, and strangely narrow in scope then. It means that your cool home can only be shared for a small part of your day, and even playing a game would shut off access to all the stuff you want to show off?

Again, rumors about the functionality tend to raise more questions than answers for me.

Grimmjow

03-11-2007, 11:57 AM

So, it really is a P2P in 3D thingy? They should make a little robot thingy called P2P3D, have it make cute noises, and be generally cute to kids.

But, if everyone hosts content on their PS3 then its P2P technology, and we all know how much SonyBMG loves that stuff. Will we ever get to see a Sony vs Sony lawsuit?

For this world to seem useful, I would think most PS3's need to remain online (I assume in the world itself; have Home running). Seems weird, and strangely narrow in scope then. It means that your cool home can only be shared for a small part of your day, and even playing a game would shut off access to all the stuff you want to show off?

Again, rumors about the functionality tend to raise more questions than answers for me.

We dont really know that Home is only accessible when your online. The app you download is just for the tools and program to connect to there servers where they host the data. Since they have there own servers that host everything else why would they change that? Only thing i can think off is that your music,videos are nlot viewable when your offline but your Home is still accessible, or maybe since the PS3 is "always on" maybe you will still be able to view it.

DangerousDaze

03-11-2007, 12:26 PM

We dont really know that Home is only accessible when your online.Actually, we do. ;) This is from Sony's FAQ...Currently Home is not a persistent world, so when you leave Home, all of your possessions go with you. For instance, it is not currently possible for other users to visit your apartment while you're not there. We are working on the persistent aspect of Home, and expect to implement it in the long term.

Grimmjow

03-11-2007, 12:29 PM

Actually, we do. ;) This is from Sony's FAQ...

Oh :D

well there we go. In that case....be online more often HAHAHAHA

edit: thanks for the clarification DDaze

Wolvie

03-11-2007, 01:29 PM

What was really striking to me was that Nintendo actually commented at all. They're pretty infamous for not saying a single word until the very last minute, or that they simply refuse to talk about anyone or anything other than what they're offering.

The fact that it was a negative comment was just icing on the cake.

Yeah, it was just strange, yet, I guess Nintendo finally has some of their confidence back due to the Wii's success...hope it doesn't go to their heads.

Whatever the case, if Nintendo's philosophy was to push gaming into the next level by a successful idea, then Sony has done exactly that with "Home". All this negative talk about Sony until now? they gotta be doing something right, even if it ends up screwing people in the end, who knows? Gamers seem to be reacting to it positively, that's all I gotta say.

Hey, Sony needs to keep the POSITIVE stuff up! No more shit talk, no more smugness, no more asshole attitude. Just sell the games, sling a shit storm of good games at us gamers, and keep their damn mouths shut. That way they'll win gamers over again.

Balthasar

03-11-2007, 02:14 PM

It just lends credence to the fact that the site members were never necessarily ANTI-SONY, but rather ANTI-WHAT SONY IS OFFERING. The fanboys simply couldn't understand that.
I don't really see that. Instead of a lot of blustering about how people can't wait for Sony to fail or how they can't move consoles, they're saying "I don't get what the big deal is?" Or "Sony continues their tradition of stealing other people's ideas." It's not that the negativity is gone; it's that it's more difficult to generate. Those that I might consider "anti-Sony" still look fairly anti-Sony to me.

Balthasar

03-11-2007, 02:16 PM

I think home looks absolutely great. I just hope it's very streamlined, and there's not a lot of "extra" stuff you have to do to get a game going with a bunch of friends. Like, I hope there's an ability to simply just all jump into a room, house, whatever without actually WALKING there.
The demonstration video on GT showed a crossbar menu that allowed the presenter to make his character jump between lobbies and from his home to some other guy's (much more extravagant) home. I can't see why they would remove this aspect of the interface, so I would think it would be safer to assume you could do that.

DangerousDaze

03-11-2007, 02:26 PM

The demonstration video on GT showed a crossbar menu that allowed the presenter to make his character jump between lobbies and from his home to some other guy's (much more extravagant) home.
It looked a bit like flOw, did you notice that?

Balthasar

03-11-2007, 02:30 PM

I'd agree with all 3 of your points.

On your first point about disconnecting you from your game to get into Home. My guess is Live wouldn't be able to support Home type functionality in game and either would PSN. You'd probably need to have

1. Everyone exit their game. Say Motorstorm.
2. Launch Home, which looks like a complete MMO type game, so it wouldn't be like hitting the silver X button in Live, it's like launching a game.
Do you recall when it was revealed that Sony was alocating an entire PPU for functionality not related to gaming, and a lot of people wondered why Sony needed so much processing power and resources for a browser? Has anyone considered the possibility that this is the reason?

Balthasar

03-11-2007, 02:31 PM

It looked a bit like flOw, did you notice that?
Actually, no, because all I was seeing was a virtual PSP. I was struck more by how much they were trying to integrate all of these disparate elements than anything else.

Wolvie

03-11-2007, 02:40 PM

I think it could go either way with the whole "OMG teh Home will nawt be free!" thing. But honestly, the demo (http://www.thatvideosite.com/video/4071) video says it all, the service will be free, and extra(read: clothes and furniture) stuff will be down loadable for a price...if you choose.
I think the same people that are freaking over paying for the extra stuff in Home are the same penny pincher's that whine about micro-transactions on XBL. Seriously, chill out, I'm sure they won't try to break your piggy bank...at least they better not, since it would just get them back in the same position they've been in since the PS3's launch.

mister_slim

03-11-2007, 07:20 PM

Home isn't a persistant world, which means it looks like your homes will be run off your PS3, not hosted on a server. Of course all the public areas will have to be hosted somewhere so Sony will still need to stump up for a pretty big server farm(s).
I guess that's the advantage of having SOE. That seems to be one thing that's always missed when criticizing Sony's online plans. SOE may not be the greatest MMO developer, but they've produced rather more successful MMOs than MS or Nintendo.

Jack B

03-11-2007, 08:26 PM

I guess that's the advantage of having SOE. That seems to be one thing that's always missed when criticizing Sony's online plans. SOE may not be the greatest MMO developer, but they've produced rather more successful MMOs than MS or Nintendo.

Good point. I wouldn't mind so much not being able to visit someone's home unless they were there, but it will diminish the times I would do it. As it stands now, I have 100 people on my friends list and while it's fun to see what they are playing at any moment and useful for organizing Gears of War matches etc, I'm not entirely sure, they'll want to exit a game, so they can give me a tour of their apartment. If they weren't around maybe I'd check out a few once in a while, but having to get them to leave their current game to give me a tour seems less likely now I realize, that's how it will work.

As for the 2nd Life part where you are in a lobby with other unknown people, I would imagine that would have to be server based or it likely couldn't have that many people on it and if it was P2P, who would they be?

I imagine the Home lobby of random people would have to be server based SOE MMO type functionality. It will cost Sony money to keep the servers running. Maybe it will be funded by your purchases online....

It still sounds like fun to walk around, but I wonder if it might get somewhat boring after a 20 minutes. I've heard 2nd life has something like 25,000 users, so it's not exactly a smash hit.

Maybe this will be different. Maybe I'll want to walk around and chat with people while watching trailers on a screen in the Home lobby. Or on the other hand this could be a once a month kind of thing and if you want to watch a new trailer, it's quicker to choose it from XMB, than boot the Home MMO.

I think Sony needs to release more details, but I'm guessing they'll keep us guessing just like they did with the original PSN network. Those who want to believe, will believe will have an optimistic outlook, those who don't will be pessimistic.

Great. More Home speculation threads for months to come...

pseudopseudo

03-11-2007, 08:30 PM

It still sounds like fun to walk around, but I wonder if it might get somewhat boring after a 20 minutes. I've heard 2nd life has something like 25,000 users, so it's not exactly a smash hit...
Actually, according to this report (http://www.secondlifeinsider.com/2007/02/25/today-in-second-life-saturday-24-february-2007/):

41,880 new signups bringing us to 3,999,229 signups total.
A peak concurrency of 33,766 at 1:58PM, and a minimum concurrency of 17,919 at 0:58AM.

So, 25,000 is close to the number of people online at one time, but there're almost 4 MILLION signed up. :eek:

MosBen

03-11-2007, 08:32 PM

Honestly, I was really wowed by Home when I first saw the video, but then got more skeptical the more I thought about it, thinking of several of the things brought up here. Don't get me wrong, I think it could be cool. I also think that something like this will become a very standard interface for all machines in the next generation, if MS and Nintendo don't hop on the bandwagon now. But nothing I've seen is going to get me to spend $600 on a machine with no games that excite me. And no, LBP doesn't get me excited enough to buy the machine either.

I will go on record now, however, and say that I predict anti-Sony people begin referring to people who are either excited about Home or who eventually use it a lot as "Home-os". The fact that I was able to conjour this bit of immaturity doesn't bode well for me, I know.

Balthasar

03-11-2007, 08:48 PM

I imagine the Home lobby of random people would have to be server based SOE MMO type functionality. It will cost Sony money to keep the servers running. Maybe it will be funded by your purchases online....
It will be funded by the gaggle of advertising Home will be able to support from other companies.

Great. More Home speculation threads for months to come...
How much could you possibly expect them to say when the program is still in beta? You don't think those videos out of the GDC gave us plenty as is? Since when does Sony show that much of their hand in tangible form so early?

J Arcane

03-11-2007, 09:53 PM

So, 25,000 is close to the number of people online at one time, but there're almost 4 MILLION signed up.

There's about as many Anarchy Online accounts too.

That's the advantage of giving your game away for free: Inflated subscriber numbers.

Jack B

03-11-2007, 10:29 PM

Actually, according to this report (http://www.secondlifeinsider.com/2007/02/25/today-in-second-life-saturday-24-february-2007/):

So, 25,000 is close to the number of people online at one time, but there're almost 4 MILLION signed up. :eek:

pseudopseudo. Thanks for the facts. I got my number from the 1up.com Podcast. According to SecondLife Insider the 25,000 was the maximum avg concurency for one day.

I looked a bit deeper at the numbers. Click here for more SecondLife charts. (http://tateru.meratalk.com/statistical%20graphs.html)

33,766 = Maximum Concurrency
25,420 = Maximum avg concurrency in one day
3,999,229 = Total signups. Although signups are free for your 1st account.
160,000 = Active Accounts = Accounts logged in once during the past 60 days.

These numbers are interesting. Clearly, tons of people are trying out SecondLive in the past 12 months, but people don't seem to be sticking around for long. If out of 4,000,000 signups on 160,000 or less than 1 in 25 are logging in during the past 60 days, it's not been a huge success. The numbers seem to indicate, that most people signup for the free account. Check it out and then don't come back.

In fact if you look at the numbers of signups, the majority of the 160,000 are actually new signups, who statistically won't log back in again...

This doesn't mean that Home will have similar results, because it may offer more in some ways and less in others than Second Life, but it does make you stop and think. My instincts tell me, that the average person won't find much fun in the "game" of Home. If there is some compelling content maybe. Sony does have somewhat of a captive audience with PS3 owners and trophies, neat streaming video, custom content in your individual Home room, that Second Life doesn't have, but the Second Life numbers on their own merit are pretty disappointing.

From as much I can figure at this point, Home sounds very interesting and if it's free, that's not all bad. I'd use it, if I had a PS3. How much is the question. It sounded awesome at first, now less so, but still cool. The key will be in the details of how it actually works with games and is it all games or some etc.

Footnote: Here is the Second Life membership info.

Your first Basic account is FREE, and includes access to events, shopping, building, scripting- everything you can do in Second Life. After your first free Basic Account, each Additional Basic Account (known in-world as an "alt" account) costs a one-time fee of $9.95.

A Premium Second Life account, starting at $9.95 a month, allows you to own land on which you can build, display, entertain and live.

Rommel

03-11-2007, 11:04 PM

I can't believe how few people see how quickly this is going to turn into the biggest cess-pit of virtual sex on the net. Second Life will PALE compared this the penetration (No pun intended, I swear) this could achieve. Worse, Second Life is still sort of underground. Being a Sony offering makes this mainstream. Just wait until Dateline or 20/20 hear about what will be going on in here. Prepare yourself, one and all.

I got MORE last year. I need more kids...

Tell your wife to give me a call I'll be right there. I'm busy since my macro tiger hermess is stick hir cock in some dude's eyeball. This really doesn't turn me on above and beyond the fact that there is not only people letting me do this, but they are ASKING.

Shodan2020

03-11-2007, 11:46 PM

let me say only two things...

FREE and dedicated servers

You know how much it's costing Sony to keep their servers free? I don't but I wager it's a lot. The cost of Xbox Live is going towards keeping Microsoft's servers the best they can be, and not costing MS a thing. Since Sony pulled the "emotion" chip from their PS3 to lessen the financial beating they are taking ATM, I figure it will only be a matter of time before they figure they can save even more by making their servers pay for play once the PS3 gets to be popular enough. They will probably make paying an option, so if you pay you get on better servers, etc. I could get on the internet for free through IU, but it's dial up. I'd rather pay $40 a month for a 6mb cable connection, at $50 a year that's less than $4.25 a month (4.16 repeating). Just something to think about.

J Arcane

03-12-2007, 12:22 AM

The cost of Xbox Live is going towards keeping Microsoft's servers the best they can be, and not costing MS a thing.

This is a load of bollocks. Microsoft doesn't have actual game servers. All games are hosted locally. And much of the remaining bandwidth is handled distributed/P2P style.

The only thing you're actually paying for is a glorified IM system and a metaserver, features that have been available free on other platforms for years.

Achilles

03-12-2007, 12:41 AM

This is a load of bollocks. Microsoft doesn't have actual game servers. All games are hosted locally. And much of the remaining bandwidth is handled distributed/P2P style.

The only thing you're actually paying for is a glorified IM system and a metaserver, features that have been available free on other platforms for years.It doesn't have a lot of game servers but the servers used for match making, distribution of content (they have a whole movie and TV section now, in addition to XBLA and all their other downloads), voice, profiles, game updates, etc. cost a good deal of money. I'd wager that they're about breaking even, and the more Live subsribers they have the more it will cost them. Their servers are fast too, unlike Sony's servers which take forever to download a patch or system update.

Wyrm

03-12-2007, 01:19 AM

I think that what most people are ignoring here is the fact that Sony is actually taking a chance by doing this. That's a GOOD thing. If they took a few more chances every once and awhile, and didn't act like such arrogant pricks all the time, they might actually sell me a console. This is a good IDEA no matter how you want to spin it. It provides a lot of potential for their network. Is it something that I'm interested in? Not really. When they get their shit together to sell me a game that's worth slapping down the 600 bucks, I'd be more than happy to have Home as something I can tool around with every once and awhile. Is it selling me the console? Hell no.

I've said this before in nearly every argument about Sony on this site, but I'll say it again: Sony has lost sight of what they are doing with the Playstation. It is no longer a game console, and they need to get back there if they expect to stand a chance. Home is a great concept, but I want real, physical games that I can buy and play. Not ideas that may or may not be as cool as they sound 6 months from now.

BabyJesus

03-12-2007, 07:37 AM

IMHO this HOME thing is just a place for people without real lives to hang out, just like Second Life and to some extent the SIMS. How boring must your real life be to want to hang out in a lamo fake world talking to a bunch of other boring people or pre teen or teenagers that rarely have anything intelligent or even amusing to say? Playing games is one thing, playing multiplayer games is another, but for christs sake get out in the world and ride a bike, invite some friends over play a game of football or *gasp* meet a girl.

Still nothing to look at with the PS3, it really has very little to offer a gamer.

Balthasar

03-12-2007, 07:54 AM

IMHO this HOME thing is just a place for people without real lives to hang out, just like Second Life and to some extent the SIMS.
And all the Live! forums? And online gaming/lan parties?

x999x

03-12-2007, 08:18 AM

Ninty's stance towards Sony appears to be "a day late and a dollar short" for those of you wondering why they were so cryptic. They were hiding the fact that they're mud slinging basically.

DangerousDaze

03-12-2007, 08:26 AM

And all the Live! forums? And online gaming/lan parties?
And here? ;)

Johan

03-12-2007, 08:26 AM

Balthasar

03-12-2007, 08:55 AM

And here? ;)
Exactly. I hope you see my point.

BabyJesus

03-12-2007, 09:45 AM

And all the Live! forums? And online gaming/lan parties?

For one, I rarely hang out on forums besides the ones here, gaming/lan parties are not comparable as they usually involve getting people together in real life and there is a point to it other than running around showing people your Sony apartment and listening to pointless banter.

As far as hanging here, I look to this site at work on occasion when I get a few minutes of break time. I'd hang more with the people I work with but alas they are all gone due to layoffs. :)

Balthasar

03-12-2007, 10:21 AM

For one, I rarely hang out on forums besides the ones here
Why are you spending time on here when there's a whole world out there full of life that you're not experiencing?

gaming/lan parties are not comparable as they usually involve getting people together in real life and there is a point to it other than running around showing people your Sony apartment and listening to pointless banter.
Yeah, the point is to sit together and play video games and generally act like big dorks because you don't have anything better to do. It's a bunch of people with no lives getting together to share their no-life experience.

I suspect you're not getting my point.

Johan

03-12-2007, 10:23 AM

Why are you spending time on here when there's a whole world out there full of life that you're not experiencing?

Moderation is good in just about everything in life (though not totally...for example, oxygen in moderation is a bad thing...if that means less than one needs! ;)).

People have problems when one outlet supplants all others in life. Moderation!

Balthasar

03-12-2007, 10:37 AM

People have problems when one outlet supplants all others in life. Moderation!
That's not my point. My point is, relatively speaking, saying people that play games like Second Life or the Sims have "no life" is a bit of the pot calling the kettle black when you're posting on a gaming forum.

BabyJesus

03-12-2007, 10:42 AM

That's not my point. My point is, relatively speaking, saying people that play games like Second Life or the Sims have "no life" is a bit of the pot calling the kettle black when you're posting on a gaming forum.

No its NOT, I don't spend my half my LIFE here or hours upon hours playing a "game" that parallels "normal" life. A lan party while arguably "dorky" is still social interaction with REAL life people.

Balthasar

03-12-2007, 11:02 AM

No its NOT, I don't spend my half my LIFE here or hours upon hours playing a "game" that parallels "normal" life. A lan party while arguably "dorky" is still social interaction with REAL life people.
Yes, you spend half your life playing a game that is completely imaginary. This is SIGNIFICANTLY better and firmly keeps you out of loserdom when you go to a bar and a girl asks you what you do for fun. :rolleyes:

BabyJesus

03-12-2007, 12:53 PM

Yes, you spend half your life playing a game that is completely imaginary. This is SIGNIFICANTLY better and firmly keeps you out of loserdom when you go to a bar and a girl asks you what you do for fun. :rolleyes:

You know what? Fuck you? Hows that?

Fact is I don't spend half my life doing anything, including games. The thing I do most is WORK. With yes, real people most of the time. I do other things for FUN as well. Like camping, going out with my girlfriend/friends/co-workers, watch sports.. I don't have time for the foolishness of a second life "game". You keep saying I don't get your point, but the thing is YOU DON'T get mine.

Stop being a retard.

NeoSuplex

03-12-2007, 01:42 PM

Moderation is good in just about everything in life (though not totally...for example, oxygen in moderation is a bad thing...if that means less than one needs! ;)).

People have problems when one outlet supplants all others in life. Moderation!

Actually, too much oxygen will make you explode. True fact.

Balthasar

03-12-2007, 02:18 PM

You know what? Fuck you? Hows that?

Fact is I don't spend half my life doing anything, including games. The thing I do most is WORK. With yes, real people most of the time.
And yet you find time to respond to me multiple times throughout the day?

What you're not getting is, just because you don't care to spend your time doing a particular activity doesn't mean the people doing said activity don't "have a life." If you can't see the irony of arguing this on an internet message board for hours on end, I don't know how else to help you.