[GDC 07] - Forza Motorsport 2 Hands-On Preview

[fitbabits]

I have some good news for fans of the original Forza Motorsport on Xbox - you haven't seen anything yet! After spending some hands-on time with the latest build of Forza Motorsport 2 at GDC 07, I can confidently say that it already has what it takes to leave the competition stalled at the starting grid.

Before I get to how the game actually plays, here's some bullet points for you:

Three hundred fully licensed (and destructible) cars
50% more upgrades available for each car
Hundreds more body kits available than on Forza 1
4,000 fully customizable layers on each car
Absolutely astounding and fully implemented physics system - each wheel reacts independently to the surface it's traveling on
Over three hours of licensed music - custom soundtracks not supported
Game runs at a consistent 60 frames-per-second
Fully implemented damage modeling for every car - damage has visual and performance impact on vehicles
Full and exceptionally in-depth vehicle performance tracking
Support for up to four individual and independent displays - one front, one each to the left and right, and one display acting as a rear view mirror

Loading up the game for the first time, the clean and functional front end will be familiar to those who know the original, but it's also easily navigated for those who are new to the series. From there it's easy as pie to jump right in to a single player race, career, etc. or hit Xbox Live for some multiplayer action.

As fans of the original already know, Forza was exactly what YOU made it. From full-on bonkers simulation to sedate arcade-lite racing game, Forza gave you the all the tools you needed to make the game exactly what you wanted it to be. Forza Motorsport 2 ups that ante to ridiculous levels. All manner of driver assist functions are available for those who just want to hit the road and race, whereas true gear heads can got nuts and hit the track in a a scarily accurate representation of the real thing.

I spent 20 minutes or so tooling around one track and didn't want to put the controller down. The feel of the car, the look of the game, the 'training wheel' arrows, etc. all added up to a very familiar and compelling experience. The car handling was as responsive and accurate as you could possibly want; I was to blame every time I lost control of the car. Odd though it may seem, I decided to try the now infamous PIT maneuver employed by police forces nationwide in high-speed car chases (thank you, CourtTV). It worked exactly as I expect it would in real life.

Also worth noting is that everything is rendered in full 3D - grass, spectators, trees, etc., and it shows. Using the right analog stick to pan around your vehicle while you're driving, you'll immediately notice the incredible detail lavished on everything, no matter how insignificant.

Racing in FM2 is only one part of the package, though. The car customization options available to the player really are mind boggling. Along with the visual customizations, there's a veritable plethora of performance enhancements available to the player. Everything can be upgraded, and I mean everything. Say, for example, that you decide you want to add a new drive train to your vehicle - go right ahead. Then you can track the hopefully improved performance in real time using the intuitive and supremely detailed stat overlays during practice sessions, races, etc.

---+++---

I had the pleasure of talking to Dan Greenwalt during the presentation, and I was able to ask him a few questions about some of the more 'interesting' design choices on FM2, including the lack of weather effects in the game, the lack of time-of-day effects, etc. Rather than reveal his thoughts on any of the aforementioned right now (I was pestering him while he was trying to scoff some lunch), I've decided to follow up with a more in-depth interview which I will post later on in the month. In the meantime, though, mark your calendars and start your engines - Forza Motorsport 2 is revved up, and based on my limited play time, is looking a prime contender for the checkered flag.

Thanks to Arne, and also the people at Turn 10 and Microsoft for allowing me access to this preview event.

[Adam Blue]

Damn I know this game is badass, I just want to play it!

[DeadScreenSky]

custom soundtracks not supported

What?! Wait, why?

[TheBrainKills]

custom soundtracks not supported

What?! Wait, why?
deal breaker right there. Losers .. also i want weather in different corners
and i want my pit radioing in to me about a low pressure leak in my left front tire.

[yerok]

did all that info come straight from the interview? This should be supported.

[Tyrant]

Everything sounds good except for the lack of custom soundtracks. Hopefully yerok is correct and there was some sort of miscommunication.

[DeadScreenSky]

It might sound silly, but custom soundtracks are a dealbreaker for me in a game like Forza 2. I don't care if I even end up loving 2 hours of that licensed soundtrack (which is exceedingly unlikely) - that still means I have to listen to that music 25 times assuming I only play the game for 50 hours. I hope that comment is really some kind of mistake. I can't see why they would choose to do it like that anyway - all 360 games support custom soundtracks by default so they would have to do extra work to take that feature out.

*crosses fingers*

[fitbabits]

did all that info come straight from the interview?
Not sure what you mean here, but I'll try to answer what I think you're asking...

The information came from a very brief presentation made by Dan Greenwalt prior to me wresting the controller and having a blast. I'm setting up the interview for a later date - I felt it would be unfair on Dan and Turn 10 to quote him directly while he was literally talking between mouthfuls of food.

[NeoSuplex]

You can overlay your own music through Guide either way... It probably just means you can't have your music replace the game's own tracks, sans guide. Like NFS games often did on XBox 1.

[fitbabits]

Everything sounds good except for the lack of custom soundtracks. Hopefully yerok is correct and there was some sort of miscommunication.
No miscommunication, it was a clear question and clear answer.

[Vandenh]

Support for up to four individual and independent displays - one front, one each to the left and right, and one display acting as a rear view mirror

While cool... I do not think that is a feature that will convince many gamers ;)

[fitbabits]

While cool... I do not think that is a feature that will convince many gamers ;)
Once they see it, they'lll be convinced! I all but dribbled down my chin when I saw it.

[Deadend]

I really hope I can deal with the realism of Forza. The custom soundtrack is no worry to me, as I can just turn down ingame music and since my 360 is plugged into my PC, just use Windows Media Player for music.

[fitbabits]

I really hope I can deal with the realism of Forza. The custom soundtrack is no worry to me, as I can just turn down ingame music and since my 360 is plugged into my PC, just use Windows Media Player for music.
That's the thing, though - it's as realistic or not as you want it to be. It has fully customizable driver assist functions. The default setting is very forgiving, so you'd have to actually make a point of turning off some assists to make it truly difficult.

[Borys]

Sounds awesome. My brother is a big racing fan and he is nagging me to buy him a 360 for PGR3 since he has seen its ads on VIVA channel.

I told him: "why don't you play GT4?"
"It's boring" he replied.

Damn my brother!

[Utils]

You guys can see a lot of that stuff in action here (http://www.gamevideos.com/video/id/9725), including the multi monitor thing.

[rjcc]

how are custom soundtracks not supported? I thought that was a requirement for all 360games.

there hasn't been any 360 game so far that you couldn't play your own music through the guide over, I have no idea why this one would suddenly be different. the original forza was even one of the few games that would let you change songs with the d pad in game while racing.

that's gotta be a mistake

[IrishWhiskey]

The online selling of customized cars made by players sounds very interesting, reminds me very much of some of the stuff Sony is trying with user created content. Live may be ahead of Sony in online gaming, but it looks like Sony is taking the lead with user created content. It will be interesting to see what Microsoft's response is.

And I simply don't believe that the guide custom soundtracks won't work. In game customizable tunes may be missing, but not the music accessible from the menu.


But now I am faced with a dilemma. I want Forza 2 badly. But I also want to play it with the Force Feedback wheel. So should I get the game and wheel right away? Or wait for Christmas when I know there will be discounted Forza/Wheel bundles? Decisions, decisions.
.

[Deadend]

my god, the 3-360 setup is just so damn hardcore awesome.

I am really sure I will get Forza, as it seems to be the most ambitious racing game, since... well, I can't think of anything.

[Craigtheplague]

Support for up to four individual and independent displays - one front, one each to the left and right, and one display acting as a rear view mirror

This reminds me of the Matrox Parhelia 512 that was released years ago. I assume it's going to look similar to this (http://firingsquad.com/media/hirez.asp?file=/hardware/parhelia/images/12.jpg), except with racing cars. That product did not do well and it's no surprise. The performance sucked, the price was high, and few games supported the 3 display feature. Most people could not afford or fit three displays on their desks. Cool concept though. How many people are going to use this feature? I guess around 10 in the whole world.

edit: Added the "Most and "not" in the "Most people could not afford...." sentence.

[Feltoar]

Licensed music, thank god! Too bad about the custom soundtracks.. but I rarely used them last generation in PGR2 and Forza.

[Inspector Fowler]

Two things about custom soundtracks for all the whiners:

1- I would not be surprised to see this in many games. When you get your shiny copy of Halo 3 I think they will want you to listen to the music they wrote, not "Dancing Queen".

2- In PGR or NFS the music is fine because the physics engine kinda sucks. But in more simulation style games I MUCH prefer to hear my engine, gearbox, and especially my tires, because even with a good force feedback wheel audio clues are very important about what's going on dynamically with the vehicle.

So the people bitching like little girls can go back to their arcade racers and have a grand old time. If that one feature causes you NOT to buy what SHOULD be the most advanced racer YET PRODUCED, I pity you.

Shit, man, video gamers complain a lot.

GOD: Welcome to heaven, Mr. Videogamer! Here in heaven you can do whatever you want, all day long, except I would ask that you not take a dump on the sidewalk or jerk off in public.
VIDEOGAMER: WTF? You said I could do anything I wanted. <stomps off to post on message board>.

[MrMeatshake]

custom soundtracks not supported

i am absolutely, positively NOT buying this game. forza 1 was a bad game. the guide made it too easy, it had no FUN factor for non-car obsessives (unlike gran turismo). the music was arguably the worst part, country/hick/rock. god, it makes me sick just thinking about it. the ONLY (absolutely the ONLY) way i got past the 1 hour mark with the original (i only got to about the 4 hour mark, btw) was because i could turn that godawful noise off (and replace it with music of my choosing).

actually, i thought i read in some press release some MS body effusing that 'ALL games will support custom soundtracks - it's not a property of the game, it's all done in the dashboard, which all games support'.

i was reading this review in the vain hope that someone would NOT say "for all you forza fans, this game is for you!" but actually say: "for everyone who thought forza was no fun and quite overhyped, this game is for you!"

[phantomhitman]

So you went to gdc and played forza 2...why was I not invited. Seriously.
Why are you holding the interview to post later?
I have to start kissing more ass around here, rediculous.

[Wolfgang]

Geeez....

Fitabits: Can you or can you not just play music from the media guide?

If it is like EVERY other 360 game. You just load up the Blade, select your source and stream the music from your PC.

Quit your whining. Maybe the guy that answered was answering correct -- The GAME doesn't support custom soundtracks cause the 360 DOES it for them. There is probably no custom soundtrack selectin from the game menu -- instead you just use the 360's blade.

[Knite]

forza 1 was a bad game.

How so? Most accurate physics of a console racer at the time, good graphics, and the best enemy racer AI in the console biz at the time.

the guide made it too easy,

You mean the one you could turn off?

it had no FUN factor for non-car obsessives (unlike gran turismo).

While I'd like to disagree, I'm somewhat of a car obsessive... but I felt Forza was more non-obsessive friendly with the ability to even design your own car paintjobs and good multiplayer abilities over Live, which GT didn't even offer. Plus, sometimes it was just plain fun to take a car, drive it around, and beat the crap out of it (damage modelling).

Forza's the only car game I've actually seen woman friends playing (one liked painting the cars and did it for hours).

the music was arguably the worst part, country/hick/rock. god, it makes me sick just thinking about it.

QFT. lol

[needoptic]

Custom soundtracks? But they're included! It's your engine growling through gear 1 to 6 as you're approaching 250mph.

[MasterKwan]

When I'm driving, all I want to hear is the sounds of the motor and the tires. You whiners aren't hard core enough. You make me ashamed to be a gamer.

[rjcc]

Two things about custom soundtracks for all the whiners:

1- I would not be surprised to see this in many games. When you get your shiny copy of Halo 3 I think they will want you to listen to the music they wrote, not "Dancing Queen".



This is the dumbest thing I have ever heard in my life up to this point.

[MrMeatshake]

How so? Most accurate physics of a console racer at the time, good graphics, and the best enemy racer AI in the console biz at the time.

and, IMHO, no fun.


You mean the one you could turn off?

yes, that one. the one where, as soon as i turned it off, i had no indicator of speeds for corners, and would then loose all the time. it's a personal thing, i'm sure, but gran turismo just manages this effortlessly, and i couldn't find a balance where it wasn't rediculously easy or too hard for me (not being a hardcore driving fan).

...and beat the crap out of it (damage modelling).
did u not find it annoying that you couldn't see the state of your car after the race? i thought that kinda killed the point of having damage, for me. it didn't mean anything, unless you watch a LOT of replays all the way through, you hardly get to see this feature.

Forza's the only car game I've actually seen woman friends playing (one liked painting the cars and did it for hours).
heh, yeah. very 2 fast 2 furious... :(

rjcc: agreed :)

[Franjo]

custom music is needed during painting of cars, the guide way of doing it has to work. Again if not no biggie, mines setup at my computer so load up my mediamonkey and crank away. During racing though, I like to listen to the engine as well.

[Mr.Green]

We have an extremely positive hands-on preview of what seems to be the best racing simulation ever created by man and the focus of the following discussion is the possible lack of support for custom fucking music.

I'm out of words. I'm out of fucking words.

[MasterKwan]

MrMeatshake, I turn everything off except ABS. Judging where and when to brake is really the most important thing in track driving. Everything else is pretty easy (line picking and when to get back into power). What you're complaining about is the essence of the game, which suggests it's just not the game for you, not that the game itself is flawed. That's like complaining about all the jumping in a Mario title. There are plenty of good games I just don't like. That doesn't make them bad games though.

[fitbabits]

We have an extremely positive hands-on preview of what seems to be the best racing simulation ever created by man and the focus of the following discussion is the possible lack of support for custom fucking music.

I'm out of words. I'm out of fucking words.
*sigh*

Yeah, that's kinda how it goes... And to think, I almost left out the comment about custom soundtracks not being supported. I wonder where the conversation would have taken us had I done that. We may actually be talking about how the game played...

[J3DI]

Are you sure you can't just turn on your media from the 360 instead of using the in-game custom sound track engine? That is usually how I do it anyways. So wouldn't that appease the whiners?

[fitbabits]

Are you sure you can't just turn on your media from the 360 instead of using the in-game custom sound track engine? That is usually how I do it anyways.
No, I'm not sure at all, but I aim to get a definitive answer.

[Tinderbox]

Support for up to four individual and independent displays - one front, one each to the left and right, and one display acting as a rear view mirrorCourtTV). It worked exactly as I expect it would in real life.



This was also in Forza 1. Good ole Network Cockpit.

[SPBTooL]

*sigh*

Yeah, that's kinda how it goes... And to think, I almost left out the comment about custom soundtracks not being supported. I wonder where the conversation would have taken us had I done that. We may actually be talking about how the game played..."Cool!"
"Awesome! Thanks Fits."
"Can't wait for this game!"
"Good to hear as I was starting to worry with the last screens."
"Forza sucks. GT5 FTW!"

[Shinigami]

A deal breaker because of a lack of custom soundtracks? It's a racing SIM. How do you hear subtle tire squealing and other cues with music blasting in the background? Plenty of arcade racers out there. Seriously people...

[KNOTE]

Over three hours of licensed music - custom soundtracks not supported

I don't believe this is true, it's a cert requirement. Must be some sort of misunderstanding in the wording. I'll ask them...

[Hagetaka]

I cant wait.. I just know that im going to be shelling out the cash for the game and the wheel right away. Especially after I heard about the force feedback; i'm a sucker like that. Oh, and what was the release date for this game? May? Ugh.

[Mantooth]

A deal breaker because of a lack of custom soundtracks? It's a racing SIM. How do you hear subtle tire squealing and other cues with music blasting in the background? Plenty of arcade racers out there. Seriously people...

I'm with you brother. The only music I need is the sweet sweet melody of a Ferrari V12.

[Adam Blue]

Dudes....you can listen to your music through the guide, but the game doesn't allow you to use custom soundtracks through the game to replace the in game music....the same thing 90% of 360 games do in the first place.... So, it's not too big of a deal, I've been complaining about this feature of the 360 since day one, but no one seemed to care.

[Tinderbox]

All right, there seems to be some confusion on the custom soundtracks. I'm told that the "not supporting" of the soundtracks is directly through the game. You can still access the guide to play the music you want.

[sol740]

Forza for the original Xbox was single handedly the best racing game I have ever played, without an inkling of a doubt. GT while comparable as a sim, didn't offer onlne play, or come near the customizable features. I recently went out and purchased the Wireless Wheel w/ PGR (I hadnt played it yet) and the force feedback is fantastic. I am eagerly awaiting the sequel so I can work on my virtual Heel-to-Toe. I am also very interested in how this multi-view display would work ... anyone know ? I am building a racing chair and cage (same seats I have in my 300zx) and I am nutty enough about cars to try to do the multi-display.

[Soap]

A deal breaker because of a lack of custom soundtracks? It's a racing SIM. How do you hear subtle tire squealing and other cues with music blasting in the background? Plenty of arcade racers out there. Seriously people...

The only song that I ever loved from a racing sim was from Gran Tourismo 2:

Garbage - As Heaven is Wide

But yeah....it's a racing sim. I want to hear the different engines, turubos, tires that are on different cars.

[Mdot23]

i always played forza 1 with the music off anyway (in race), focusing on the engine sounds, tires, etc.

fits, did you play with a controller or the steering wheel? I'm seriously considering dropping the $150 for the wheel since it looks to be integrated so well with the force-feedback and was basically designed with this game in mind. any impressions on that?

[Tinderbox]

I am also very interested in how this multi-view display would work ... anyone know ? I am building a racing chair and cage (same seats I have in my 300zx) and I am nutty enough about cars to try to do the multi-display.

Multi display works like this, for example: For 4 screen setup you would have to system link 4 xbox 360's, each running a copy of forza (so 4 copies) and of course the 4 tv's.

This feature also shipped in forza 1 as an easter egg and it should be easy to find this info out there. If you can't find it, let me know.

[Mdot23]

Multi display works like this, for example: For 4 screen setup you would have to system link 4 xbox 360's, each running a copy of forza (so 4 copies) and of course the 4 tv's.

This feature also shipped in forza 1 as an easter egg and it should be easy to find this info out there. If you can't find it, let me know.

aka, about $5500, on the conservative side. I'd kill for that though!

[DeadScreenSky]

All right, there seems to be some confusion on the custom soundtracks. I'm told that the "not supporting" of the soundtracks is directly through the game. You can still access the guide to play the music you want.
Sounds good. They just meant no Xbox1-style custom soundtracks, which is fine by me.

*goes back to looking forward to the game*

[absolut taco]

Licensing 3 hours of music sounds like a giant waste of time for a sim like this. As many have already said, the cars ARE the soundtrack.

[Inspector Fowler]

This is the dumbest thing I have ever heard in my life up to this point.

Thank you for providing supporting arguments. Your logic is overwhelming me, and I will change my opinion now :rolleyes:

You will recall that on Xbox 1 there were a lot of games that supported "custom soundtracks". You may also recall that a lot of games wouldn't allow them at all, because they wanted you to listen to THEIR music.

Think of it like this- if my dumb ass was listening to "We Like to Party" by the Venga Boys during, say, "The Departed", it would really kill a lot of the emotion. Same thing in Halo- if there is supposed to be a big emotional moment when you, say, see a human city destroyed or a favorite character has been killed, and you're listening to Justin Timberlake, it doesn't make sense.

For me, one of the biggest things about games being art means that often the music and the visuals are absolutely connected. Fortunately that generally isn't true for racing games but in many games I wouldn't dream of turning off the music.

But back to the original point here- this is like in a car magazine when they review, say, a beautiful Porsche. They talk for pages about how awesome the car is, but they always have to get in some stupid jab about how small the cupholders are...you guys are saying you won't buy a Porsche because the cupholders are too small. It seems kind of backwards (and whiny) to me.

[Tyrant]

For me, one of the biggest things about games being art...

I'm sorry, but I burst out laughing when I read that.

[Jack B]

custom soundtracks not supported

i am absolutely, positively NOT buying this game. forza 1 was a bad game.

Not sure why you're so passionatly beating on Forza, but it's important for you to have your opinion. It did have a consensus review average of 93, so you're very very far in the minority. I think of a very bad game as something in the low 70's or 60's. 93?

the guide made it too easy,

Why didn't you turn it off. I turned it off long ago, because once you reach a certain level it's distracting and not needed.

it had no FUN factor for non-car obsessives (unlike gran turismo).

You opinion. Fine.

the music was arguably the worst part, country/hick/rock. god,

That's fine. I like ZZ Top, but I turned that off too. I know, I'm too hardcore wanting to hear my engine and tire sounds to drive better.

it makes me sick just thinking about it. the ONLY (absolutely the ONLY) way i got past the 1 hour mark with the original (i only got to about the 4 hour mark, btw) was because i could turn that godawful noise off (and replace it with music of my choosing).

Maybe you were having a bad day the day you tried Forza. Man... It actually made you SICK thinking about it? Yikes!

actually, i thought i read in some press release some MS body effusing that 'ALL games will support custom soundtracks - it's not a property of the game, it's all done in the dashboard, which all games support'.

Yeah, I've done that on tons of games. Not sure about Forza. Are you sure you were doing it correctly?

i was reading this review in the vain hope that someone would NOT say "for all you forza fans, this game is for you!" but actually say: "for everyone who thought forza was no fun and quite overhyped, this game is for you!"

Sorry you feel that way. Not sure why the anger.

There was a ton of depth to Forza, but after one hour, I'm guessing you didn't experience a lot of it or get to know all the flexibility and options.

I'm really sure you didn't have fun with designing your own car you could trade, sell or race online this one.

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q247/JackB99/myimm.jpg

Or this one.

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q247/JackB99/vampire.jpg

or this one.

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q247/JackB99/35.jpg

[icronic]

No custom soundtrack!!! Oh noes! Far too diffucult to use the guide to play music, or even worse, my computer or stereo behind me, can't be bothered, what a shitty game this is. horrible.

Ahem... Pardon me.
On to serious discussion.

I really don't know how I feel about this game. I absolutely love racing games, more than anything else out there, especially the uber realistic ones. Yet at the same time there are so many features I wish this game just did not have. Yes you heard me, I don't want more features I want less.

Where to start. The guide + xbox live... I desperately wish that this was a single player only type thing. 90% of the people racing on live had it turned on, and it just seemed to take so much away from the game. Sure I could host a game with it turned off for all players, but do you think anyone would actually stay in the room?

I remember so much of the fun of PGR2, was finiding the right lines and being able to really out drive everyone else in the room.

Now there's the car customization. This has always been a source of frustration for me. I suck at tuning my cars, not only do I not understand what any of these options do, I simply feel that it takes too much time to get your car properly set up even knowing how it to be done. I'd rather spend my time racing then noodling with settings.

Take this onto live and it turned into the guy with the best car wins, unquestionably.

I miss the PGR2 type of online gameplay, simple, pick your class pick a car from within that class (and they were with a few glaring exceptions fairly even) and race.

I realize that I'm comparing an arcade racer to a sim, but I feel that when talking about the difference between sim and arcade we're more talking about the physics of the cars more than anything.

Forza just kind of turned what was a great racing game into something that just felt frustrating and not the least bit fun. However I must get the sequel anyway, just because I'm dying for another half decent racer, and PGR3 certainly did not win my affection like PGR2 did, it's like they took all the best features and tossed them out the window.

[fitbabits]

i was reading this review in the vain hope that someone would NOT say "for all you forza fans, this game is for you!" but actually say: "for everyone who thought forza was no fun and quite overhyped, this game is for you!"
A couple of points here - my article was a preview, not a review. :)

Next, by stating at the start of the preview "I have some good news for fans of the original Forza Motorsport on Xbox - you haven't seen anything yet! After spending some hands-on time with the latest build of Forza Motorsport 2 at GDC 07, I can confidently say that it already has what it takes to leave the competition stalled at the starting grid.", I'm clearly implying that people who hated the original for whatever reason need not read on...

[Jack B]

Where to start. The guide + xbox live... I desperately wish that this was a single player only type thing. 90% of the people racing on live had it turned on, and it just seemed to take so much away from the game. Sure I could host a game with it turned off for all players, but do you think anyone would actually stay in the room?

Yeah, I understand why you'd want it off. I drive quicker without out, but I know the tracks cold and don't like the distraction. Beginners and players who don't know the tracks do benefit, but they were typically behind me anyway and if they weren't I appreciated them getting a bit better, so it would be more competition. I couldn't see their line anyway, so it didn't bother me, but I understand what you're saying.

I remember so much of the fun of PGR2, was finiding the right lines and being able to really out drive everyone else in the room.

I agree. Althought, the fast lines weren't the ones with the "guide/green line". For beginners maybe it helped them, but those lines weren't the best on purpose. The game was designed for you to want to turn them off. I probably won't ever have them on in Forza 2. I'm beyond the need even for tracks I don't know. I just drive the car now.

Now there's the car customization. This has always been a source of frustration for me. I suck at tuning my cars, not only do I not understand what any of these options do, I simply feel that it takes too much time to get your car properly set up even knowing how it to be done. I'd rather spend my time racing then noodling with settings.

Hmmmm. Forza allowed you to grab settings from friends and/or from people on the top 100 leaderboards on every track, so I'm not sure why you didn't do that?

I preferred to make my own, because I loved that mini game. I had one for every track. Occaisionally, for a couple of different cars on a particular track. Each took many interations to get just right and they never were "just" right. That's half the fun and challenge of racing in real life as well as Forza.

I though their sharing of settings was a terrific feature. This version will give the driver the option to "hide" their settings and either sell them via an auction or give them to friends or members of their car club. Sounds fair to me. Time to make some friends with fast people! :D

Take this onto live and it turned into the guy with the best car wins, unquestionably.

Definitely each class had one or two cars that dominated, but usually the top cars were 2 to 5 seconds a lap faster than the next best. That meant a 6 to 15 second gap on a 3 lap race. The problem was the best drivers spent more time with the game and knew the best cars. The casual drivers didn't, so not only were they slower, often they had slower cars...

Luckily in Forza 2, the 30 second rule can be adjusted by the host. As for some cars being faster, they have fine tuned the car classes, so there still could be 1 or 2 cars in a class that win more often, but they've gone to great lengths to make that less likely.

I've seen many very good drivers handicap themselves in online races with weak cars and they win anyway... Glad the 30 second rule is gone.

I miss the PGR2 type of online gameplay, simple, pick your class pick a car from within that class (and they were with a few glaring exceptions fairly even) and race.

For me the arcade aspects of PGR2 made it less fun.

I realize that I'm comparing an arcade racer to a sim, but I feel that when talking about the difference between sim and arcade we're more talking about the physics of the cars more than anything.

Yeah, it's all personal preference. They are both great games. Sim damage is going up in Forza 2, so Sim damage rooms will be a bit more hardcore this time than last. I'm all for it.

Forza just kind of turned what was a great racing game into something that just felt frustrating and not the least bit fun. However I must get the sequel anyway, just because I'm dying for another half decent racer, and PGR3 certainly did not win my affection like PGR2 did, it's like they took all the best features and tossed them out the window.

I'm guessing you'll like Forza 2 better, but sim racers aren't for everyone. They have an arcade setting too, but it's the whole package so I understand what you're saying.

For me it was the best game on the original Xbox. I feel right in line with the consensus 93 scores.

[Jack B]

A deal breaker because of a lack of custom soundtracks? It's a racing SIM. How do you hear subtle tire squealing and other cues with music blasting in the background? Plenty of arcade racers out there. Seriously people...

Yeah, sound isn't as important in a racing sim. Tunes are great for games like PGR, Burnout, Need for Speed.

Although, you can still use the 360 guide to play your own tunes, so I'm not sure why people who just want to drive and hear tunes, don't just turn off the soundtrack and use Live's. :confused:

[rjcc]

I messaged che on gaf re: the custom soundtracks thing and got this:

Custom soundtracks are an important part of Forza 2.

We want you to listen to your own music.

Please tell that to Evilavatar folks.

Thanks.



so yeah, custom soundtracks = am not disabled total.


now, lets go back to discussing how much ass this game will kick.

also, inspector fowler - you're just wrong.

games can knock out your custom soundtracks at times though, and if games do that, that's not a problem at all, but much different than disabling them wholesale.

[Inspector Fowler]

Again I bow to your superior wisdom. I AM wrong and I freely admit it.

I will now proceed to watch Schindler's List while listening to the Beach Boys. I feel a lot cheerier about the Holocaust if I can at least know they died to a cheery surf tune.

[Twigz'N'Berries]

Since you have had the pleasure of playing it, can you tell us if it graphically stands up to Motorstorm?

[fitbabits]

Since you have had the pleasure of playing it, can you tell us if it graphically stands up to Motorstorm?
I don't know that that's a fair comparison - it would be like comparing apples to oranges. Both are fruits, yet both are uniquely distinctive. I will say, though, that Forza 2 is as impressive graphically for what it is conveying as Motorstorm.

[MrMeatshake]

...I'm clearly implying that people who hated the original for whatever reason need not read on...

yeah, i know. i was just saying what i wanted to hear ;)

JackB: fair enough, i can see what there is to like about forza. i think that's what annoys me: i wanted to like it, and i tried (i bought it on release day, i think) but for me, i just couldn't find the fun... and i used to love gran turismo (i never bought a PS2, i only had GT1 and 2, and played 3 on friends' PS2s).

i really think that forza is even more of a sim and even more aimed at the hardcore than the GT series is. and i don't think it's for me. :shrug:

u know what makes me angry, really? if i'm honest? i spent full price on it on release, and i never got my money's worth out of it :D.

[mulligan]

Forza for the original Xbox was single handedly the best racing game I have ever played, without an inkling of a doubt. GT while comparable as a sim, didn't offer onlne play, or come near the customizable features. I recently went out and purchased the Wireless Wheel w/ PGR (I hadnt played it yet) and the force feedback is fantastic. I am eagerly awaiting the sequel so I can work on my virtual Heel-to-Toe. I am also very interested in how this multi-view display would work ... anyone know ? I am building a racing chair and cage (same seats I have in my 300zx) and I am nutty enough about cars to try to do the multi-display.


Virtual Heel-to-toe? :confused: You mean Heel-and-toe, which would be kinda tricky on a wireless wheel, are the pedals close enough to do it easily?