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Dr.Finger
02-25-2007, 09:40 AM
Welcome to week nine of the Official Evil Avatar Comic Book Reviews

Remember these reviews are NOT spoiler-free.

Evil Avatar's Weekly Comic Book Reviews - Year 3 - Week 9

Civil War #7 (of 7)
Reviewed By: Michael Chauvet (Doctor Finger)
Publisher: Marvel Comics
Writer: Mark Millar
Penciller: Steve McNiven
Inker: Dexter Vines
Colorist: Morry Hollowell
Letterer: Chris Eliopoulous
Editor: Tom Brevoort
$2.99

http://www.evilavatar.com/images/thumbs/comics/Civil%20War%207.jpg

Well that was one hell of a ride. Marvel's Civil War, the comic event to end all other comic events, has finally reached its climax. In most ways Civil War #7 is a microcosm for the event as a whole - pretty good, with lots of interesting ideas, but it still cannot live up to the hype preceding it.

Civil War #7 kicks off where and when #6 ended, namely in the Negative Zone prison just as the two sides are about to begin the final battle. And oh, boy does the final battle live up to its billing. Its big, bombastic, frenetic and filled with several oh, $#!^ moments. Early on the combatants are transported from the Negative Zone to midtown Manhattan, and the Big Apple quickly begins to bear the brunt of the battle. Both sides eventually play their respective trump cards, Captain America's side receiving help from Namor and the Atlanteans while Clone Thor, the recently returned Captain Marvel and the new Champions lead Iron Man's cavalry. Much like the Distinguished Competition's recent event book, Infinite Crisis, the brawl in this issue could have filled an entire issue all by itself and still been thrilling. The fight eventually, inevitably, comes down to Captain America and Iron Man. As in their last encounter Cap fights a little dirty and Iron Man goes down. Cap is about to finish him, I mean really finish him, when he hesitates. Into that moment a mass of civilian rescue workers jump in and tackle Cap. They force him to look around at the devastation that has been wrought on New York City - buildings lie ruined, streets are clogged with debris and injured civilians are everywhere. In that moment Captain America realizes that he was wrong. The anti-registration side may have been winning the battle, and even the war, but they were nonetheless losing the argument. In fighting against the Registration Act he had proven to the American people that it was vitally necessary. In the face of this, Captain America orders his forces to stand down and he surrenders. The war is over. Captain America is in jail, most, but not all heroes have accepted a general amnesty, and others remain underground or flee to Canada. The 50 States Initiative, placing a super-team in every state, has begun. And Tony Stark has taken the job of SHIELD director, partly to clean up the corrupt organization, partly because he's the best man to safeguard the identities of the registered heroes.

Civil War #7, and the event as a whole, is tough to review. On the one hand it failed to live up to the massive amount of hype that preceded and surrounded it. On the other hand it would be physically impossible for any book to live up to the hype Civil War had, so it really isn't fair to hold that against it. Tony Stark, Reed Richards and Steve Rogers all spent various parts of the series acting completely out of character, but at the same time you could justify their actions as those of desperate men who feared the worst if they lost (and several of the later tie-ins, including FF #542 and the Iron Man/Cap Casualties of War special, do a great job fleshing out their motivations and justifications). The ending, while a little anticlimactic, was the best resolution to the story. There had to be a winner in the war, and almost any other outcome would have required heroes killing other heroes - an act that likely would have destroyed the character in the process. The ridiculous delays really hurt the book, and the necessary plot points (Clorbot, the villainous Thunderbolts) could have been hit without writing the big guns so out of character. Ultimately it was a beautifully drawn book structured around a fairly original concept that in the process spawned a lot of interesting new books and new directions for old titles. In other words it was a success from critical, commercial and creative standpoints.

Bottom Line:
A bit of an anti-climax, but ultimately a fun and satisfying end to the Civil War.

Rating (Civil War #7): Worth the money and time (4 out of 5 EvilEyes)
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Rating (Civil War - Overall): Worth the money and time (4 out of 5 EvilEyes)
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The Brave and the Bold #1
Reviewed By: Michael Chauvet (Doctor Finger)
Publisher: DC Comics
Writer: Mark Waid
Penciller: George Perez
Inker: Bob Wiacek
Colorist: Tom Smith
Letterer: Rob Leigh
Editor: Joey Cavaleri
$2.99

http://www.evilavatar.com/images/thumbs/comics/Brave%20and%20the%20Bold%201.jpg

The Lords of Luck, Part 1 - Roulette

The rebirth of a legend. For those who don't know the original Brave and the Bold was DC's premiere team up book, featuring among other things the debut of the Justice League. It eventually morphed into a Batman team-up book before being sent out to pasture in the 80s. But its back in a big way, shepherded by the capable hands of Mark Waid and George Perez, and co-starring Batman for old time's sake. We start off with Green Lantern Hal Jordan returning to Earth only to discover a dead body floating 150 miles above the planet's surface. The corpse has an obvious bullet wound in its chest so GL does the logical thing and rings up the world's greatest detective - Batman. Batman just happens to be dealing with a dead body in the Batcave as well, a body that is an exact duplicate of the one Hal found in space, down to the bullet wound. Batman tells Hal that 64 identical bodies have been discovered throughout the world, most in places that superheroes are known to live or frequent. Some sort of energy monster promptly attacks them, and is defeated by some quick thinking and assists from the Batmobile and the Giant Penny. Batman and GL follow the clues to Las Vegas in their civilian identities where, after a round of blackjack, they discover that at least one of the duplicate dead men had been romantically involved with Roulette, one of the JSA's enemies. In her apartments a crazed Roulette is trying to destroy a book with Firefly's arson gauntlets when another pair of aliens attack, aliens seem to be obsessed with gambling and luck. After a fight one alien escapes into space with the book, while another flees east. GL follows the one into space (apparently teaming with Supergirl in the next issue) while Batman attends to Roulette, who reveals that the stolen book is the Book of Destiny, a tome that contains everything that was, is or will be - ultimate knowledge.

After Infinite Crisis the powers that be at DC promised some relief from the unendingly dark and gritty storylines. While most of the line hasn't moved too far from the dankness, this book (almost) makes up for it. The heroes in it are not only allies, but also friends. (The casino scenes between Bruce Wayne and Hal Jordan alone are worth the price of admission.) The threat is unambiguously evil while also very menacing. It has just enough continuity in it to warm the cockles of a fanboy's heart without drowning newer readers in it. The creators aren't too worried about developing the characters too much, they're in about elleventy five other books after all, and instead just focus on crafting a fun story.

Bottom Line:
An extremely entertaining return to form for DC's foremost team-up title.

Rating: A must have! (5 out of 5 EvilEyes)
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Cable and Deadpool #37
Reviewed By: Michael Chauvet (Doctor Finger)
Publisher: Marvel Comics
Writer: Fabian Nicieza
Penciller: Staz Johnson
Inker: Jeremy Freeman
Colorist: Gotham
Letterer: Dave Sharpe
Editor: Nicole Boose
$2.99

http://www.evilavatar.com/images/thumbs/comics/Cable%20Deadpool%2037.jpg

Unfinished Business, Part 2

Firstly, the title of this book is a bit misleading at the moment, seeing as Cable is nowhere to be seen at the moment. But fortunately we have everybody's favorite Merc with a Mouth, Deadpool a.k.a. Wade Wilson, to keep us entertained. Wade's been in a bit of a funk lately, thinking that his cred as an international mercenary has gone down the crapper, so he's been trying to rehabilitate his image. Well that is put on hold when he wakes up one morning, after a tryst with and eight-dollar hooker, to find himself three inches tall. He soon gets captured by The Rhino, who is pissed at Deadpool for humiliating him some time ago, and used as an ornament on his keychain. Rhino takes little-Pool to a super-villain dive bar where a bunch of no-name villains decide to have some fun making him ride a urinal cake before shooting him. Little-Pool gets flushed and then tossed into the air for target practice. Too bad for them that even a three-inch tall Deadpool is more than a match for the yutzes in the bar. In moments they're all down, except for Rhino who didn't want to kill Wade, only humiliate him. Rhino lets Deadpool go and he quickly finds who paid the hooker to dose him with Pym particles - his old friend and partner Weasel. Weasel only shrunk him to allow Wade to prove that even shrunk he's one of the best, so he goes and captures the Rhino to prove it. Only Weasel didn't buy enough Pym particles and Wade is stuck at keychain size.

When Cable was co-starring in this book was equal part slapstick yuks and determined philosophy. With Cable out of the picture its pure comedy and a lot of fun. Deadpool is one of the few genuinely funny characters that can also kick major ass, traits which he displays to full effect in this issue. Is it deep? Not really, and it runs the risk of making Deadpool into too much of a joke, but the book is a ton of fun, and that's the ultimate goal.

Bottom Line:
One of the better funny books on the market.

Rating: Decent, but leaf through it before buying it. (3 out of 5

EvilEyes)
http://www.evilavatar.com/images/icons/e3.jpg

Dr.Finger
02-25-2007, 09:41 AM
Get Your War On
Reviewed By: Philip Kollar (Kefkataran)
Publisher: Soft Skull Press
Writer: David Rees
Price: $11

http://www.evilavatar.com/images/thumbs/comics/get%20your%20war%20on.jpg


Get Your War On is a small, skinny black book collecting about half a year's worth of politically charged comic strips by liberal funny-man David Rees. Written in late 2001 and early 2002, the comics are very historically centered, bathed in a wide-eyed post-9/11 delirium. Unlike most of America, though, Rees's reaction to 9/11 was outrage at the stagnation in our political system rather than intensified patriotism. The result is this hilarious, angry strip full of moral indignation and just a little bit of heart.

Focusing as it does on the mundane lives of a group of cubicle drones carrying on conversations at break or over the phone, the art in this book is as simplistic as possible. In fact, calling it art at all is maybe a bit of a stretch - it's actually clip art. There's a total of maybe ten characters in the book and less than twenty "scenes" with slight variations. This obviously serves a political purpose, but it also forces the reader focus onto the text that dominates the pages.

And how is that text? Well, if you're on the same side of the political spectrum as Rees, it's hilarious. Rees mocks the political spectacle in a way not unlike The Daily Show or The Colbert Report, but he's able to push it a step further than the boundaries of cable television and a more mainstream audience allow. The language is harsh and the sentiments harsher. In fact, the very first punch line, and one of the funniest in the whole book, gives a good idea of what to expect: "Operation: Enduring Our Freedom To Bomb the Living Fuck Out Of You is in the house!" Unfortunately, these earlier strips don't have some of the more absurd elements of later months, what with recurring character Voltron only being introduced in the last fourth of this collection. Still, the humor holds up for the most part, especially if you were on news overload at the time it was being written and remember the ripped-from-the-headlines events that Rees references.

There is a small piece of information that might give Get Your War On some redeeming value for those not left-minded. Rees and publisher Soft Skull Press seem to be at least somewhat putting their money where their mouths are. According to info at the back of the book, all of the author's royalties from Get Your War On (as well as an additional percentage provided by the publisher) go towards an Afghanistan mine detection group cleaning up mines in that region. Whatever your beliefs, that's a cause most of us can get behind.

Bottom Line:
If you're liberal or just generally not a fan of our current administration, you'll probably get a kick out of Get Your War On. That goes double if you love the satiric overtones of The Colbert Report. As far as politically-charged comic strips go, this is probably the tops you'll get. If you're not down with the ideas being presented here, though, this will not change your mind and will probably just infuriate you. You've been warned.

Rating: Worth the time and money (4 out of 5 EvilEyes)
http://www.evilavatar.com/images/icons/e4.jpg

2024
Reviewed By: Philip Kollar (Kefkataran)
By: Ted Rall
Publisher: NBM Books / ComicsLit
Price: $16.95

http://www.evilavatar.com/images/thumbs/comics/2024.jpg

2024, a graphic novel by popular liberal cartoonist Ted Rall, is what the name might suggest: an homage to Orwell's 1984. Unfortunately, it pays tribute in the least interesting way possible - by shamelessly borrowing from the story while changing just enough elements that they fit Rall's more tightly-defined, politically focused agenda. 2024 is about a near future where capitalism and postmodernism (or Rall's ironic neopostmodernism) have taken over in the most extreme ways possible. Governments are merely shadow plays run by two or three massive corporations that own everything and everyone in the world. The people of the world believe only that there is no truth, that knowledge is completely fluid, and thus live joyless consumer lives staring at TV screens and working office jobs.

Biggest problems first. Rall's artwork, while it might feel comfortable in a small two or four-panel comic strip, simply is not suited to a longer graphic novel. It will likely take significantly less than half of the 100-page story for most readers to get sick of Rall's super-simplistic character models and flat drawings. Characters are never shown from angles besides up front, presumably because Rall just can't draw them that well, so no matter whether some one is sitting, standing up, or laying down, they look exactly the same. This problem also extends to some of the most boring sex scenes ever witnessed in a work of fiction. True, it can be argued that this style is a thematic element that fits into the story, but it never actually feels like that.

As mentioned above, 2024 owes basically every facet of its existence besides Rall's own politics to Orwell's 1984. The overall plot is the same, the ending is the same, the character's have the same names, and almost every major scene from 1984 is found here. This isn't bad in and of itself, but there are two major problems with it. First is that Rall simply is not anywhere near as good a storyteller as Orwell. His text, even when it feels aped nearly word-for-word from 1984, plods along at a snail's pace. There's also just way too much of it for a graphic novel, again highlighting Rall's lack of artistic prowess, his inability to show us rather than tell. The even bigger issue, though, is that the original elements of 2024's plot presented through Rall's own political motives are not that interesting or well-argued. Unlike Orwell's stark, terrifying vision of a possible future, Rall's feels more like an alarmist extrematizing of some very modern issues. Where Orwell seemed to say, "Beware that you don't reach this point," Rall screams, "We're already very well fucked and on our way!"

Bottom Line:
In the end, 2024 suffers from the same problem that plagues so much anti-government literature - it derides what it calls "mass-media-dictated" groupthink while in reality merely pushing a different kind of groupthink that agrees with its ideals. Dropping much of the subtlety and seriousness of the classic it's based on and replacing them with half-hearted attempts at the same type of humor and irony that's constantly being condemned in the book proves to be a fatal decision for this graphic novel. It's not all horrible, but reading (or re-reading) 1984 will almost definitely do you much better.

Rating: Avoid at all costs (1 1/2 out of 5 EvilEyes)
http://www.evilavatar.com/images/icons/e1_5.jpg


Quick Hits: (Dr. Finger's take)
52 #42 - Ralph Dibny - Hero
Wonder Woman #4 - I waited 4 months for this?

Sazime
02-25-2007, 10:03 AM
The Brave and the Bold #1
Bottom Line:
An extremely entertaining return to form for DC's foremost team-up title.
Rating: A must have! (5 out of 5 EvilEyes)
Ok, the writing looked good, but how was the art? After seeing the preview image and the pages on IGN, I couldn't say I liked it. Was it worthwhile was well?
Wonder Woman #4 - I waited 4 months for this?
And it's not even done. The finale is going to be handled in a one shot. Heinberg can't keep up to save his life.

Pureboy
02-25-2007, 10:12 AM
Get Your War On is probably one of the worst parts of opening Rolling Stone every issue. I disagree wholeheartedly that the humor is intelligent at all. It tries to intelligently skewer the administration and just ends up being the enraged rantings of a far-lefty.

Don't even try to compare it to the Daily Show. I hope Rees stays far away from that bastion of comedy and political satire.

Heretic Machine
02-25-2007, 10:29 AM
I hated Civil War #7... Easily the worst issue out of the whole series. There was no climax. The story seemed to of been dropped, I imagine Millar's thoughts were something along the lines of "Well, enough of this, lets just slap The End on it and move on." Civil War had the potential to be one of (if not the) greatest events in Marvel's history and it turned out completely lackluster because of a general lack of balls.

Whatever, I'll just go back to reading Spidey and Fantastic Four.

Dr.Finger
02-25-2007, 10:30 AM
Ok, the writing looked good, but how was the art? After seeing the preview image and the pages on IGN, I couldn't say I liked it. Was it worthwhile as well?I love George Perez' art so I'd say its a buy. His style is kind of old school, so some people don't like it, but I think he's one of the best in the business.

SuperMonkeyFighter2
02-25-2007, 10:53 AM
I hated Civil War #7... Easily the worst issue out of the whole series. There was no climax. The story seemed to of been dropped, I imagine Millar's thoughts were something along the lines of "Well, enough of this, lets just slap The End on it and move on." Civil War had the potential to be one of (if not the) greatest events in Marvel's history and it turned out completely lackluster because of a general lack of balls.

Whatever, I'll just go back to reading Spidey and Fantastic Four.

I agree 100%. I really did not like the series to be honest ... too many characters were out of character for starters. Not to mention the ending was just ... bad.

I was at comic con this weekend (did not go today). At the Planet Hulk panel, someone asked if PH would end with the hulk sobbing and giving up. Pretty funny ...

SuperMonkeyFighter2
02-25-2007, 10:54 AM
I love George Perez' art so I'd say its a buy. His style is kind of old school, so some people don't like it, but I think he's one of the best in the business.

On Friday, he was at the con in an autograph booth. The sad thing is, he had NO line. I walked up and said hello ... super nice guy.

On the flip side, Steven Colbert was signing next to him before a HUGE line.

Sazime
02-25-2007, 11:02 AM
I love George Perez' art so I'd say its a buy. His style is kind of old school, so some people don't like it, but I think he's one of the best in the business.
Yeah, I think it is a personal to person thing. I love Humberto Ramos's artwork, but I know others who loathe it.
I hated Civil War #7... Easily the worst issue out of the whole series. There was no climax. The story seemed to of been dropped, I imagine Millar's thoughts were something along the lines of "Well, enough of this, lets just slap The End on it and move on."
Yeah, reading this quote makes me believe that's pretty much what happened.
Teasing about the ending Quesada said that at a Civil War editorial meeting, the assembled creators were deadlocked over the ending. Whedon, who was already supposed to be there was late, but when he arrived, the problem was presented, and as Quesada said, Whedon looked at the creators and said, "Are you kidding? *This* has to happen."
When you don't have an ending in mind from the beginning, you're gonna get yourself in some trouble.

The other thing to think about? They need enough loose ends to branch out and sell you 5-10 other titles after this single series wraps up. Marketing 101 kids.
I was at comic con this weekend (did not go today). At the Planet Hulk panel, someone asked if PH would end with the hulk sobbing and giving up. Pretty funny ...
Ha! That man deserves a "balls" award! Very nice!

Kefkataran
02-25-2007, 11:28 AM
Get Your War On is probably one of the worst parts of opening Rolling Stone every issue. I disagree wholeheartedly that the humor is intelligent at all. It tries to intelligently skewer the administration and just ends up being the enraged rantings of a far-lefty.

Don't even try to compare it to the Daily Show. I hope Rees stays far away from that bastion of comedy and political satire.

I disagree. *shrug* Then again, I've read very very little of Rees's more recent stuff. It's completely possible that he's lost the fervor and interesting anger that was present in the early, immediately pre-9/11 stuff. I'll let you know what I think when I review Get Your War On II.

I hated Civil War #7... Easily the worst issue out of the whole series. There was no climax. The story seemed to of been dropped, I imagine Millar's thoughts were something along the lines of "Well, enough of this, lets just slap The End on it and move on." Civil War had the potential to be one of (if not the) greatest events in Marvel's history and it turned out completely lackluster because of a general lack of balls. .

I disagree. Issues 5 and 6 were easily much worse, even if 7 wasn't a WHOLE lot better. That said, it was obvious Marvel wanted Civil War to serve less as a complete mini-series all on its own and more as a prologue to this new Marvel universe. In that light, it makes a little more sense why the ending's so... not an ending. Also, I'm not sure Millar (or hardly anyone) could've wrapped up such a ridiculously major story in Marvel history in a more complete way, but I could be proven wrong.


When you don't have an ending in mind from the beginning, you're gonna get yourself in some trouble.

To be fair to Marvel (which you know I hate doing), they DID have an ending in mind from the beginning. That meeting Joe Q referenced has been talked about many times and took place well before Civil War was starting, during the planning stages. That's the point where an ending should be (and was) thought up.

laggerific
02-25-2007, 11:49 AM
I have two collections of get your war on...glad to see it in the weekly comic review. A great comic, and a necessary one for this day and age. I believe you can access it all online, too if you google get your war on.

Sandman
02-25-2007, 12:01 PM
I've read Road To Civil War up to the Spidey stuff. The Illuminati one shot is the best part of it so far. That issue alone is a good prequal to everything that happens. I'm assuming it's also a prequal to World War Hulk? Or does Hulk come back during the civil war?

jeffool
02-25-2007, 12:03 PM
Get Your War On (http://www.mnftiu.cc/mnftiu.cc/war.html) (full run there,) was great when it came out, largely because it was directly opposed to the flag-waving being done at the time. (The first comic was less than a month after the WTC attacks, when even most liberal folks were hesitant to decry our actions.) This was back when it was in Afghanistan and 'The War on Terrorism'. We didn't invade Iraq until 2003, so this isn't typical bashing of the war there. Being set in the immediate post-9/11 time period, people actually took an interest in the war we were entering and almost tried to enlighten themselves. For a couple of weeks, people actually watched news and cared. Of course, that's all there was on TV...

The whole thing is done with clip-art, so expect little/no artistic beauty. But it's the scripts along with (and often in contrast to) the absurdly generic images used that help sell the humor. Cool to see it reviewed Kef. (I'm proud, I have a copy from the original run, signed and numbered!)

"Oh my God, this War On Terrorism is gonna rule! I can't wait until the war is over and there's no more terrorism!"
"I know! Remember when the US had a drug problem, and then we delcared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore? It'll be just like that!"
"Right! God, if only that War On Drugs hadn't been so effective! I could really use some fucking marijuana right now!"

Seriously. A month after 9/11, people gave me the meanest looks when I laughed at that. But now people see it and act very blase. You had to be there, man!

Heretic Machine
02-25-2007, 12:07 PM
disagree. Issues 5 and 6 were easily much worse, even if 7 wasn't a WHOLE lot better. That said, it was obvious Marvel wanted Civil War to serve less as a complete mini-series all on its own and more as a prologue to this new Marvel universe. In that light, it makes a little more sense why the ending's so... not an ending. Also, I'm not sure Millar (or hardly anyone) could've wrapped up such a ridiculously major story in Marvel history in a more complete way, but I could be proven wrong.

I'm gonna go spoilery.

Since when does Captain America make a habit of saying, "Fuck it?" Because that is what he did in this issue. Despite six issues of him talking about how important this war was, and how they had to do it despite the cost, he suddenly says "Fuck it, you win, I lose, game over." It made absolutely no sense what-so-ever. Galactus might as well of shown up with Howard the Duck on his shoulder, that would of gone along with the anti-logic treatment the rest of this issue enjoyed.

Then, after Cap's Ritalin kicks in, everything is suddenly cool-beans with everyone else. Sure, Spidey and Cage are seen at the end in their new underground movement (wasn't this shit supposed to be over), but on the whole things just go forward. Civil War may as well of not happened, because in the end people just go back to doing their thing while Tony Stark changes the world. The most noticeable after-effect will be that Spidey will be in the black costume until after the hype from Spider-man 3 dies down.

Completely ridiculous...

Kefkataran
02-25-2007, 12:43 PM
Since when does Captain America make a habit of saying, "Fuck it?" Because that is what he did in this issue. Despite six issues of him talking about how important this war was, and how they had to do it despite the cost, he suddenly says "Fuck it, you win, I lose, game over." It made absolutely no sense what-so-ever. Galactus might as well of shown up with Howard the Duck on his shoulder, that would of gone along with the anti-logic treatment the rest of this issue enjoyed.

Then, after Cap's Ritalin kicks in, everything is suddenly cool-beans with everyone else. Sure, Spidey and Cage are seen at the end in their new underground movement (wasn't this shit supposed to be over), but on the whole things just go forward. Civil War may as well of not happened, because in the end people just go back to doing their thing while Tony Stark changes the world. The most noticeable after-effect will be that Spidey will be in the black costume until after the hype from Spider-man 3 dies down.

Completely ridiculous...

OMG more spoilarz

Actually, historically Cap America of the Marvel U has said "fuck it" MANY times. It happened in the '70s. It happened in the '90s. And now it's happening again. It's not that surprising for the character. You might be thinking of the much cooler Ultimate Captain America who, yes, makes the 616 Cap look sort of like a pussy. That said, I'm hoping Brubaker will paint Cap in a better light in his post-Civil War issue of Cap that's out in a week or two. Everyone's saying it's a vital issue, so whatever.

Also, you're WAAAAY fucking off about Civil War having LESS effect because of this ending. With almost any other ending, registration would have ended, and THEN shit would've gone back to normal. Now registration hasn't eneded so, until it (probably inevitably) does, the Marvel universe is truly a REALLY different place. The sheer number of new registration-influenced books coming out is proof of that. And it's not just Spidey and Cage still underground -- the whole New Avengers and presumably some other heroes are remaining anti-reg/underground. This was actually revealed several months before CW ended, so it wasn't that surprising. Again, it turned out that CW serves more as a prologue to this new Marvel universe than a full, beginning-middle-and-end story in and of itself.

Also, Spidey being in the black costume isn't even an effect of Civil War. At all. The fact that they showed it in the last issue of Civil War was odd and pretty pointless.

Anyways, I'll continue to mantain that Clor was a much more idiotic and illogical story than anything that happened in CW#7.

eltee38
02-25-2007, 01:04 PM
i wish at the end after cap gives up Cage whispered something like 'Never trust whitey' and jumped captain america and beat the shit out of his white boi ass in front of all the superheroes for being such a pussy.

archon
02-25-2007, 01:15 PM
Since when does Captain America make a habit of saying, "Fuck it?" Because that is what he did in this issue. Despite six issues of him talking about how important this war was, and how they had to do it despite the cost, he suddenly says "Fuck it, you win, I lose, game over." It made absolutely no sense what-so-ever. Galactus might as well of shown up with Howard the Duck on his shoulder, that would of gone along with the anti-logic treatment the rest of this issue enjoyed.


Spoiler text is neat:

As Cap was beating the shit out of his former friend Iron Man, he saw that he'd become everything Stark had said superpowered people were from the beginning and stopped. He realized his fight was not the righteous one any longer.

Sazime
02-25-2007, 01:18 PM
I'm gonna go spoilery.
While agree with the points about the initial reactions from the heroes, CW is far from over. I think we're gonna see a lot more action from the pro/anti reg groups in future Marvel issues.

Sazime
02-25-2007, 01:19 PM
I've read Road To Civil War up to the Spidey stuff. The Illuminati one shot is the best part of it so far. That issue alone is a good prequal to everything that happens. I'm assuming it's also a prequal to World War Hulk? Or does Hulk come back during the civil war?
Nah, Hulk hasn't shown up yet. I'd imagine there's gonna be some talk of it in one of the current Illuminati books or in the "Planet Without a Hulk" books. Anyone else know anything?

Sophism
02-25-2007, 01:20 PM
Yeah, me too, eltee38. I also wish that Infinite Crisis had ended with Superman punching a hole through Wonder Woman for going out of the kitchen. :rolleyes:

Spigot
02-25-2007, 02:22 PM
Dr. Finger! I told you to review issue #36 of Cable & Deadpool. It was much funnier than this latest issue. #37 was good, but the yucks just weren't there like they were for #36.

I just picked up the first three C&D trades and I like the way they do both Cable and Deadpool back at the start of the series. Cable is still his dour self but it's a little less angsty than he has become in the more recent issues of the series. Deadpool is the same, which is great.

GrinR
02-25-2007, 03:28 PM
So long as we've got the political comics going now, check out Cox and Forkum:

http://www.coxandforkum.com/

They have THREE books out, packed with brilliant comics

http://www.coxandforkum.com/archives/000967.html

Kefkataran
02-25-2007, 04:21 PM
Yeah, this was my political comics review double-shot. Throwing both of them out since I tend to avoid them.

The linked comic looks interesting, GrinR, but in all honesty I'm not a huge fan of the "classic" style of political cartooning where you've got labels and such. Still, I'll look into it, maybe write a review.

CapnBob
02-25-2007, 05:11 PM
Issue 7 of Civil War accomplished pretty much the worst thing they possibly could have done as far as I'm concerned. It made me not care. I'm suddenly hit with a massive bout of apathy about either side and pretty much every character involved. Good job, Marvel.

Paranoia
02-25-2007, 06:23 PM
Civil War #7 turned out to be the least favorite of the series IMHO.

agentgray
02-25-2007, 08:51 PM
Spoilers:

Cake!

I just read through the whole 7 issues again by themselves and it does seem to all make sense. Peter and Cages decision doesn't. Someone mentioned earlier that Marvel got a reboot to their universe without using their old methods. There was literally no mutant involvement other in the main series (which I thought was weird), but the registration method sticks.

We all should have seen it coming. Why else would it ever go back to the status quo. We should have seen the loser from miles away. At first it was hard for me to take because I like the "You think this "A" stands for..." version of the hero better.

...and why is Peter in black? (I mean the comic reason, not the Marvel money one). Has that been revealed yet?

SuperMonkeyFighter2
02-25-2007, 09:26 PM
Spoilers:

Cake!


...and why is Peter in black? (I mean the comic reason, not the Marvel money one). Has that been revealed yet?

The latest Amazing Spider Man seems to start it all off (why he's in black ...). He's to be in mourning and in a "dark" state of mind.

I don't know. Not to sound like a hater, but I could not STAND Civil War. I understand it was trying to ring in a new era for the Marvel U, but can you look at characters like Tony Stark again and see him as a hero anymore? Heck, he paid for terrorist attacks on the capital (during Road to Civil War) in order to further his agenda. Not to mention, that he recruited killers and villians to fight for him ( as well as cloning Thor and killing Goliath).
The same holds true for Cap ... I understand that he looked around and saw he was fighting for was not the right cause (in his eyes), but how many "Freedom must not be compramised ..." speeches did he give during this series? The end made him look wishy washy. What's worse, it made him undermind all of the extreme sacrafices eveyone fighting under him made (like poor Goliath for example).

Not to mention, how are they going to undo the damage done to Spiderman? The whole reveal was a good gimmick, but where do you go from there? He can never hold a real job, nor have a wife, etc. The "everyman" aspect of the character is lost.

Oh well, sorry for the rant ... for those who enojyed the series, take no offense at my rant.

Kefkataran
02-25-2007, 09:35 PM
...and why is Peter in black? (I mean the comic reason, not the Marvel money one). Has that been revealed yet?

OMG S-S-S-SPOILARZ!

This week's issue of Amazing Spider-Man featured Spidey narrowly pushing Mary Jane out of the path of a sniper's bullet... only to have the bullet hit Aunt May. The issue's ending was perfectly ambiguous as to whether or not May *actually* dies, but it seems somewhat likely.

Sazime
02-25-2007, 09:48 PM
Oh well, sorry for the rant ... for those who enojyed the series, take no offense at my rant.
Eh, rant all you like, you're not being an ass towards the rest of us. :)

There are definitely some aspects of CW I do not like, but I think it accomplished what it meant to. Mainly, a huge reset in the Mavel U without a huge "decimation". Yeah, I think M-Day was pretty useless, even now. What was the point of that BS? Did they just want to beat up on the redheaded stepchildren some more?

Anthony W
02-25-2007, 11:27 PM
Civil War was awful. I haven't seen such a gap between quality and sales since early Image comics

Dr.Finger
02-26-2007, 06:34 AM
I don't know. Not to sound like a hater, but I could not STAND Civil War. I understand it was trying to ring in a new era for the Marvel U, but can you look at characters like Tony Stark again and see him as a hero anymore? Heck, he paid for terrorist attacks on the capital (during Road to Civil War) in order to further his agenda. Not to mention, that he recruited killers and villians to fight for him ( as well as cloning Thor and killing Goliath).
The same holds true for Cap ... I understand that he looked around and saw he was fighting for was not the right cause (in his eyes), but how many "Freedom must not be compramised ..." speeches did he give during this series? The end made him look wishy washy. What's worse, it made him undermind all of the extreme sacrafices eveyone fighting under him made (like poor Goliath for example).

Not to mention, how are they going to undo the damage done to Spiderman? The whole reveal was a good gimmick, but where do you go from there? He can never hold a real job, nor have a wife, etc. The "everyman" aspect of the character is lost.

Oh well, sorry for the rant ... for those who enojyed the series, take no offense at my rant.No offence taken, this is why we do these threads.

I thought the last 2 issues of CW, plus a couple of side books like the Cap/Iron Man special, did a bit to ameliorate the damage done to Tony Stark's character. He was portrayed as someone who tried to prevent the registration act from being created, but once it was inevitable he tried to make it as painless as possible. That doesn't explain away Clorbot and the Thunderbolts, and I think those story points could have, and should have, been hit without ruining Tony Stark. He's not all the way back, but he's not the moustache-twirling supervillain he was during the middle part of the series.

(For the sake of my sanity I treat all instances of JMS writing pro-reg characters like they never happened)

As for Cap, I think he was portrayed pretty accurately. First and foremost he was a soldier in a horrific war. He did things to win, like embracing the Punisher, that he wouldn't do in other circumstances. When he finally realized exactly how far he had gone, he moved to make things right.

The series wasn't perfect, and a lot of guys were written out of character, but in the end I think they ended it the best way possible.

Hale
02-26-2007, 10:02 AM
re: Get Your War On

"If you're not down with the ideas being presented here, though, this will not change your mind and will probably just infuriate you. You've been warned."


I disagree, I'm a Conservative-ish person, a supporter of the President and our current mission(s) in Iraq (and elsewhere), but I happen to find GYWO pretty funny. Actually, *very* funny. I mean seriously, sometimes you just have to laugh at each other and I'd far rather be the target of humor than spite.

agentgray
02-26-2007, 01:55 PM
OMG S-S-S-SPOILARZ!

This week's issue of Amazing Spider-Man featured Spidey narrowly pushing Mary Jane out of the path of a sniper's bullet... only to have the bullet hit Aunt May. The issue's ending was perfectly ambiguous as to whether or not May *actually* dies, but it seems somewhat likely.

Car Spoilers:

I read that issue but I've seen a million more like it before. Marvel's got me with the mag. There didn't need to be a cliffhanger. For Pete's sake, Gwen Stacy died in the middle of Amazing Spidey back in the 70s. That took balls. Instead we get blood, and a state of shock May. It would have had better impact if the hole was in her head and her eyes were rolled back.

I call foul. I don't think they have the balls, and if so, to keep it permanent.

SuperMonkeyFighter2
02-26-2007, 03:01 PM
Car Spoilers:

I call foul. I don't think they have the balls, and if so, to keep it permanent.

Comics lost their balls completely, given the fact that NO death is permanent anymore (not saying this is a death mind you).

Heck, remember the golden rule? "Only Bucky stays dead". Well, not anymore he doesn't ...

SuperMonkeyFighter2
02-26-2007, 03:08 PM
The series wasn't perfect, and a lot of guys were written out of character, but in the end I think they ended it the best way possible.

Well, I just hope that everything just moves in a positive direction and the comics become fun to read again (for me anyway).

I hear what you're saying, but Civil War made me a sad panda
:(

Incidence
02-27-2007, 01:50 AM
First post ever after lurking for a while but I thought I'd add my point of view since I haven't seen it yet.

Civil War was my big intro to the main Marvel universe and the world of monthly comics, I've been reading a few Ultimate universe books in trade for a few years so I sorta knew who people were but I didn't have any real back story.

I was not happy with Civil War as an event and a story. Knowing that Marvel was going for a reset without a reset I understand that this was the only way the story could possible end so I'm not upset about who won, its more how they won. Without the benefit of seeing Tony and Reed being heroes and friends with everyone, all I got, up tell the last book, was heroes vs. evil Tony, his flunkie Reed and their henchmen. Marvel seemed to be pushing this event as a jumping on point and it really is, a lot changed and its a new playing field, but the way the Pro-Req side acted in this event is really going to effect how new readers view all of them for quite a while and I'm not sure that is what Marvel wanted.

To be honest I really think Reed is permanently ruined for me, the scene in Amazing Spiderman 535 were Reed explains why he is Pro-Req really just sent the message that he is a coward, he is so scared of what could happen that he is willing to sacrifice his friends and and family to avoid it.

As a a planned event Civil War just seemed like a disaster, Everything was late and the main story was scattered all over any number of books. In several cases it really seemed that Marvel went out of the way to scatter the main story over as many series as possible.

I think the biggest harm Marvel did was to their relationship with new potential readers, the event showed a Marvel that can't plan out a major event, even when they control the time line and everything is done in house. Also, several of their major characters were damaged in the eye's of the new people. What you have been referring to as "out of character writing" is the first impression for new people and their views of them will be based on this story, I know it will be a long time before I buy anything with Tony or Reed in it just because this story really made me hate them.

Overall this whole event really convinced me to hold off on Marvels big events and get them in trade after general consensus's is that they are worth it.

Having said all that Civil War did get me into a comic shop for the first time in over 10 years and it did get me interested in New Avengers and Runaways (even though the Runaways tie in had even less to do with Civil War then the X-men tie in), plus some stuff by Wildstorm (good call to time their relaunch with Marvel and DC's big events) and Top Cow.

Dr.Finger
02-27-2007, 06:21 AM
First post ever after lurking for a while but I thought I'd add my point of view since I haven't seen it yet.Welcome aboard.

Civil War was my big intro to the main Marvel universe and the world of monthly comics, I've been reading a few Ultimate universe books in trade for a few years so I sorta knew who people were but I didn't have any real back story.

I was not happy with Civil War as an event and a story. Knowing that Marvel was going for a reset without a reset I understand that this was the only way the story could possible end so I'm not upset about who won, its more how they won. Without the benefit of seeing Tony and Reed being heroes and friends with everyone, all I got, up tell the last book, was heroes vs. evil Tony, his flunkie Reed and their henchmen. Marvel seemed to be pushing this event as a jumping on point and it really is, a lot changed and its a new playing field, but the way the Pro-Req side acted in this event is really going to effect how new readers view all of them for quite a while and I'm not sure that is what Marvel wanted.

To be honest I really think Reed is permanently ruined for me, the scene in Amazing Spiderman 535 were Reed explains why he is Pro-Req really just sent the message that he is a coward, he is so scared of what could happen that he is willing to sacrifice his friends and and family to avoid it.I basically ignore every instance of JM Straczinski writing pro-reg characters. They always come off as one step away from Nazism when he does. But if you read Fantastic Four #542, by new writer Dwayne McDuffie, Reed's motivations are explained much more coherently. He's basically smart enough to predict, in broad strokes, where things would go without the registration act and he was willing to do whatever it takes to prevent that future.

Kefkataran
02-27-2007, 07:34 AM
First post ever after lurking for a while but I thought I'd add my point of view since I haven't seen it yet.


Welcome to the board and comics! Hope Civil War didn't sour you *too* much and hope to see you writing once in a while!


I basically ignore every instance of JM Straczinski writing pro-reg characters. They always come off as one step away from Nazism when he does. But if you read Fantastic Four #542, by new writer Dwayne McDuffie, Reed's motivations are explained much more coherently. He's basically smart enough to predict, in broad strokes, where things would go without the registration act and he was willing to do whatever it takes to prevent that future.

Interesting. That's basically the same explanation they use for Iron Man's going with pro-reg in the first place, right? That he's a "futurist" and just thinking ahead?

Incidence
02-27-2007, 06:54 PM
I basically ignore every instance of JM Straczinski writing pro-reg characters. They always come off as one step away from Nazism when he does. But if you read Fantastic Four #542, by new writer Dwayne McDuffie, Reed's motivations are explained much more coherently. He's basically smart enough to predict, in broad strokes, where things would go without the registration act and he was willing to do whatever it takes to prevent that future.


Thanks for telling me, I'll have to get the Fantastic Four series when it comes out in trade. That makes a lot more sense then the Spider Man explanation and would change my view of the character but it also really shows the lack of editorial control. Two different series in the same event have different motivations for a core character and the difference really changes how that character is viewed.

I knew going in I wasn't going to be getting all the tie-ins so I had to choose some how. Without background knowledge or any hints from Marvel I just guessed which ones would be more important and it seems I got it wrong across the board. I got Young Avengers/Runaways just because the cover was interesting, I got Spiderman and X-men because I liked the movies and I avoided Fantastic Four because that movie was kinda a dud in my mind. By the time I understood how important Frontline was I'd already missed 4 issues.

Welcome aboard.

Welcome to the board and comics! Hope Civil War didn't sour you *too* much and hope to see you writing once in a while!

Thank you both. No, I'm not too sour about Civil War and I do plan on sticking with comics for a while and hanging out here. :)

Spigot
02-27-2007, 07:01 PM
Incidence! Get the Wolverine run when it comes out in trade. It was probably my favourite tie-in of the lot from a fun factor. Plus the art was gorgeous.

thecrazyd
02-27-2007, 07:08 PM
Yes, normally I hate Wolverine, but the Civil War tie in was excellent.

Incidence
02-27-2007, 09:55 PM
oh man, I was just planning on getting The Road to Civil War, the main trade and Frontline, now in less then 12 hours I've added Fantastic Four and Wolverine to the list, its going to be expensive to hang around here isn't it. :)

Kefkataran
02-27-2007, 10:00 PM
That's the way it works. We're a gateway comics discussion group. Also, the Fantastic Four Civil War trade was written by Straczynski. Wasn't it the non-Straczynski FF you wanted?

Incidence
02-28-2007, 10:45 PM
That's the way it works. We're a gateway comics discussion group. Also, the Fantastic Four Civil War trade was written by Straczynski. Wasn't it the non-Straczynski FF you wanted?

So Fantastic Four #542 isn't going to be part of the trade then or did they switch writers or something?

Kefkataran
03-01-2007, 06:22 PM
I'm not reading FF, so someone else correct me if I'm wrong, but I think #542 is the start of the new writer, Stracyzynski's first issue off the book, and also the start of the new, post-Civil War arc.

Incidence
03-01-2007, 11:48 PM
well that doesn't do me much good then, the local comic shop is pretty small and they didn't have 542 when I checked today.

Sazime
03-02-2007, 02:15 AM
well that doesn't do me much good then, the local comic shop is pretty small and they didn't have 542 when I checked today.
And after checking up on it, it was written by Dwayne McDuffie, which is probably why it seemed more relavent and was much more interesting than the previous 3 issues. You may still be able to get it from Midtown (http://www.midtowncomics.com) or BCB (http://www.bcbcomics.com). You never know!

Incidence
03-02-2007, 11:00 AM
Midtown has it but they list the author as Straczynski not Dwayne McDuffie. Ah well, I'll wait until my last order from them arrives then order this and the Oath issue the local shop didn't have either.