7 for 7 (Broken 360s)

[bapenguin]

See, this is when you know it's bad (http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4785&Itemid=2). Rob and Mindy Cassingham of Moab, Utah operated a videogame center, bought four systems at the November 2005 Zero Hour Event.

Long story short, all four of those systems "croaked," according to 42-year-old Rob Cassingham, with the first one dying in January 2006, just a couple months after launch. Those systems were used in the Cassingham's game center, but Rob insists that no one abused the machines.

Three other Xbox 360s for the Cassingham's personal use also failed.

Rob wrote in an e-mail to Takahashi, "A new 360 was all I really wanted in the first place, but after two failed attempts dealing with Microsoft’s overseas call centers, I am very annoyed that it took an email directly to P. Moore to get results.”

Something is WRONG with the XBox 360 units. While it seems the later models are more stable, early adopters seem to be getting screwed day in and day out by having to send their console for repair, and then the repaired console for repair.

[DangerousDaze]

One guy on the BBC consumer affairs show had nine failed consoles, so I call Rob and Mindy Cassingham of Moab, Utah, stone cold quitters!

/edit - boy there's a scary picture in that link. I'll be scarred for life!

[Huricos]

This is what most of us have been screaming about.

I bought a 360 at launch and right now I'm on my 4th one with friends even being on their 5th and 6th. There was something wrong with the first batch of 360's and I want MS to come out and tell us exactly what it was.

[Kamalot]

Microsoft paid to have mine fixed. Yes, I was down for a short time, but they extended the warranty for an additional year (after I already had the system for 9 months), for FREE! They paid for shipping both ways.

I fail to see how that kind of action is screwing consumers.

[wyeast]

Something is indeed wrong. Of our group like 75% of them have failed. Disconcerting, indeed.

[imagecreature]

Knock on wood...my lauch day 360 is still working fine. For someone to have that many go bad in one location, could there be some mojo in the current, air or something?

[Camalot]

What is the cutoff of more stable units? I got my XBox 360 about April of last year.

I will tell you this, when I first setup the xbox 360 and put it in my cabinet I immediatly noticed that the temperature inside the cabinet went way up (after a few minutes), not sure if thats part of the problem

[DangerousDaze]

I fail to see how that kind of action is screwing consumers.
Colour me not surprised. :)

[violentp]

Shit, who was I having a conversation with as to whether or not the faulty numbers were excessive or not?

[wyeast]

Microsoft paid to have mine fixed. Yes, I was down for a short time, but they extended the warranty for an additional year (after I already had the system for 9 months), for FREE! They paid for shipping both ways.

I fail to see how that kind of action is screwing consumers.
Well, it's screwing customers more (in terms of downtime, hassle of having to re-download all marketplace content... esp. if you want to be able to play offline again, etc) than if the boxes were designed and built to a spec that wouldn't have such a high apparent failure rate.

[wyeast]

What is the cutoff of more stable units? I got my XBox 360 about April of last year.

I will tell you this, when I first setup the xbox 360 and put it in my cabinet I immediatly noticed that the temperature inside the cabinet went way up (after a few minutes), not sure if thats part of the problem
There's no cutoff. It's random. A buddy of mine has a 2005 unit, still running like a champ week after week. Another buddy in the same group, had a 2006 (May? June??) unit die on him recently.

[GunnyMo]

I still don't see why this is an issue. Early adopter, of any system, get screwed in the long run. They are always the final beta testers. :) Let's be honest here: there is nothing MS could do short of giving everyone who sends in a broken system a brand new one (and that's just not economically feasible) that will satisfy the entire public. What they have done, to this point, I think has been very customer friendly. Free repairs, extending the warranty, etc. are all good steps.

The systems this guy bought were for use in a game center. That means they were on 10+ hours a day and constantly being used. Of course they are going to need repairs sooner than a system owned by a regular gamer.

Early adopters know that the systems they buy do not have all the bugs worked out. The history of gaming has proved that. To continually bitch about it is just silly. There are millions of people with XB360s that work perfectly fine and continue to do so. The small percentage that has had issues does not mean there is something "WRONG" with the 360. For that small percentage 360 has taken amiable steps to address the issue. What more do you expect from them?

And I'll add that for every person who says "well, my friends and I are all on our 5th and 6th 360" there is probably 5-10 times as many people who could say "well, my friends and I have 360s that work just fine."

[Zanzibar]

My Launch Day X360 finally gave up the ghost 2 weeks ago. I called immediately, they tried to get me to pay but I made a fuss and they backed down, but then it took them a week to get me the box to send it back in. I just got word today that it's in the UPS system on the way back.

I'm curious if it'll be the same system or a different one. I wonder if there's no 'customizations' (name/address etc. inscribed on it) if they tend to just ship back a different repaired unit.

[bapenguin]

Microsoft paid to have mine fixed. Yes, I was down for a short time, but they extended the warranty for an additional year (after I already had the system for 9 months), for FREE! They paid for shipping both ways.

I fail to see how that kind of action is screwing consumers.

It becomes and issue when people go through MULTIPLE repairs and are without their console they paid for, for weeks which add up to months.

It's all great and good that they are repairing and shipping the consoles for free...like they should. But it's not all well and good when the console they repaired or replaced breaks too.

[DangerousDaze]

Gunny, all that would be true if it weren't for the fact that it's not a small percentage, and it's not restricted to early adopters.

[Tyrant]

I think it's safe to say that when you're a manufacturing worker getting paid diddly squat in Mexico to manufacture 360s, you're likely to not give a damn whether or not the a sticker covering up heatsink goop is removed, if the solder connections are solid, etc.

[Goronmon]

Mine is extremely loud, freezes inconsistently, but at times frequently, and the disc tray requires various level of voodoo magic in order to convince it to open.

[lockwoodx]

Honestly this is microsoft's typical quality. We need an open source console revolution!

[Draconis]

I still don't see why this is an issue. Early adopter, of any system, get screwed in the long run. They are always the final beta testers. :)


Nintendo Called. They told me that they are sending the nice people in white coats to pull you away from your over welcomed stay in reality. :D


Seriously though, yes, something is wrong, and *** should know better. Yet they continue to pull their casual Micro$oft lies as usual. Oh Noes! We have no problems! No problems at all!

Pffftt.

Personally, I fear for my 360

Btw GunnyMo, the reason why I stated such towards you is because Nintendo has a ROCK SOLID history of their stuff working and working well, with very little break down factor involved. Even for Early Adopters.

You can compare Nintendo's Quality of Products and Service to that of *** and $ony, and you will see a HUGE difference between the three in retrospect.

[GunnyMo]

Gunny, all that would be true if it weren't for the fact that it's not a small percentage, and it's not restricted to early adopters.

My point is that complaining always outshines gratitude. By that I mean, those with broken systems are going to be more vocal than those who's systems work just fine so it seems like every other person has a broken 360. The issue is way out of proportion to what the reality is, I think.

[Jack B]

See, this is when you know it's bad (http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4785&Itemid=2).

Something is WRONG with the XBox 360 units. While it seems the later models are more stable, early adopters seem to be getting screwed day in and day out by having to send their console for repair, and then the repaired console for repair.

I'm a lucky one with a day two unit still humming along (or should I say buzzing...). I've never moved it once. I'm afraid too!

I think a lot of people keep getting recycled 360's, sent out by Microsoft, so it's one lemon after another.

Some people don't take great care of their 360. I had a business trip to Seattle this week and a young couple were in the airport struggling to carry all their crap. I noticed they had a core 360 box they were going to carry on. As they turned to walk away the 360 fell out of the box 3 feet onto the tile floor.

BIG CRASH! :eek: The face plate flew off and a few other misc. parts. My heart sank as I thought of how bad they must have felt and how all during their flight they must have been wondering it they just "killed" their 360.

I didn't notice for sure, but I think the wife had was carrying the 360. Hope, they didn't get into a big fight. Nothing was said. They just picked up the pieces and keep moving...

[Zaro]

That explain the 10 000 000 sold ;)

[total]

I got mine for Christmas and am now waiting for a box to send it back. I'd say the system has around 700 hours on it but it won't last longer than 15 minutes before giving me a DDE. My Xbox has even put nice big round gouges in most of my games, which MS was nice enough to offer to replace...with Kameo (one of the games it scratched) or PDZ (another scratched one). I was basically told I am out of luck on my other games. So I'd say I've spent roughly $800-1000 on just games and accessories and have had the worst consumer experience of all time. I just might be getting myself a PS3 here once the 360 gets back.

Oh and for the record: No it isn't vertical, no I don't move it when it is on, yes I take the games out when the system is off and no I'm not an idiot who scratches his own games...I'm way too poor for that business.

[GunnyMo]

[
Seriously though, yes, something is wrong, and *** should know better. Yet they continue to pull their casual Micro$oft lies as usual. Oh Noes! We have no problems! No problems at all!



Actually, MS has come out and admitted problems with the launch 360s hence the extended warranties, free repairs, etc.

I agree Nintendo has a solid history of console construction and both MS and Sony could learn from them.

Look, I'm not saying there isn't a problem and I'm not fanboy defending MS. I'm saying the issue is made larger than it is by a vocal minority.

[DangerousDaze]

My point is that complaining always outshines gratitude. By that I mean, those with broken systems are going to be more vocal than those who's systems work just fine so it seems like every other person has a broken 360. The issue is way out of proportion to what the reality is, I think.
I appreciate what you're trying to say - no one posts on a blog "Hey everyone! My console works!", or "My game doesn't crash!", they post when they've got a problem and want to get it off their chest. But these stories have been (and are still) coming thick and fast for a long time, and it's not just one failure, it's two, or seven, or nine. It can't easily be explained away by a faulty batch of some component, but having said that I'm not about to speculate or anything more serious like a design flaw because the evidence doesn't support that either.

/edit Please fix the site! :(

[silv]

My 360 I got 1 month after launch is still working happily. I guess I am lucky?

[total]

Actually, MS has come out and admitted problems with the launch 360s hence the extended warranties, free repairs, etc.

I agree Nintendo has a solid history of console construction and both MS and Sony could learn from them.

Look, I'm not saying there isn't a problem and I'm not fanboy defending MS. I'm saying the issue is made larger than it is by a vocal minority.

Nintendo's track record with systems is outstanding. I'm sure it has nothing to do with not having any games to play for the system or having to go buy a new "upgraded" piece of hardware every year.

I kid, I kid...I have never had an issue with any of my Nintendo systems.

[silv]

What about having to spend 15 minutes blowing in, popping in and out, and otherwise f'ing with your NES to get it to boot your damn game?

[GunnyMo]

/edit Please fix the site! :(

That right there should be a news post. :D

[Goronmon]

/edit Please fix the site! :(Quoted for truth.

[IrishWhiskey]

I got my 360 at launch and its still working fine. (knock on wood)


Seriously, how bad a single persons troubles were has nothing to do with how many 360s had problems. There was a guy who was struck by lightning over seven times too. The usually figure I hear is less than 10% of systems had problems, which isn't good, but hardly a cry for alarm for those who did get launch systems.

[cppcrusader]

I still don't see why this is an issue. Early adopter, of any system, get screwed in the long run. They are always the final beta testers.

You know, it's always amazed me that this concept is accepted in console gaming. I've never run into this in other general electronics and haven't really heard of it happening much outside of consoles.

[DoubleUranium]

I wonder if the failures are heat related or not. It seems odd that some people keep having system after system fail, while others don't have any problems.

[GrinR]

GunnyMo basically summed it up. Personally, I find the "OH NOEZ" chicken little posts about busted 360s to be as interesting and informative as posts about Britney's haircut or Paris' latest stolen video. Hardly front-page worthy.

Send it in, get your repaired one, and move on folks!

[ilian]

Im on console #3 (none of them were launch systems), and have had the worst customer service experience of my life dealing with them.

I also have my console sitting seperately away from my entertainment system, with a fan blowing directly on it.

[Hyperglide]

I too have an Xbox 360 that I bought just this past boxing day. I have had it for just under 2 month's (opened it about a month ago), and have had nothing but prob's with games freezing. First off GRAW that came with it didn't even work (it was one of the pack in games and came in a paper sleeve WTF?!?) so I had to call Ubisoft to get it replaced. Well I finally got a new copy of GRAW back yesterday (in a cheap plastic case not even the real case wtf??). Well it does work thank god but now it freezes ALL the time. It's not just this game. I've had Gears of War, and Project Gotham Racing 3 freeze on me lot's too. I have it well ventilated, baby it, don't play marathon games, cleared the cache, moved the 'brick' off the ground and well ventilated near an OPEN WINDOW IN THE WINTER (too keep it cool) and it still frequently freezes all these games.

I'm annoyed and am about | close to calling Microsoft, and ripping them a new one, I think I need a new console. I really know what it mean's when people say a system 'dies,' I guess that's slang for the three red lights/hardware failure or when you can't game for more then 15 mins' with serious issues, but i'm at my wit's end to do with this contraption they call a console. I love my 360 but I can't even get out of training in GRAW without it freezing. It doesn't even make as a nice center piece.

The only games I've been able to play without any problem are the freaking Burger King games, and Hexic HD (played 8 total).. Don't know if Call of Duty 2 (the 8th), causes problems cause I only finished training in that one (for achievement points hehe).

Can anyone who has had related issues help, with the freezing cause I don't really want to call Microsoft. Decisions, decisions.

[ilian]

Look, I'm not saying there isn't a problem and I'm not fanboy defending MS. I'm saying the issue is made larger than it is by a vocal minority.

It is a pretty big issue though isnt it? The consoles have been failing. And this isnt standard, here and there normal stuff, A LOT of consoles have been failing. Anecdotally, everyone single person I know with a 360 had had to have theirs replaced. We have 3 360s at my office, and all 3 have had to be replaced.

That is kind of a big deal isnt it? Why shouldnt this be making news, it would be with any other popular consumer product that had these sorts of failings.

This isnt like the Wiimote straps, this isnt chicken littling, this has been a real tangible problem, and thats why its making news over and over.

I give mad props to Microsoft for extending their warranty in the US, thats great, and if they ever do send me my refund Ill be happy, but that doesn't mean the problem doesnt exist, and that doesnt counteract some of the CS nightmares that have happened.

Dell had twice as much press for their problems with most likely much much lower failure rates.

[Conductor_Grey]

I got 3 360s from 12/06. All work just fine and all of them are loud. Two has got the cooler fans because they're in cabinets but they're even louder through them. Disc tray requires no magic thankfully and the only time I've had problems with the systems is when I play Madden 07. I thought it was a fluke so I bought another copy...same thing. BUT, I did get the ring of death on one two weeks after getting it, did reset, ran like a champ after.

[jpublic]

Hyperglide, it sounds like it may be the drive, which means MS for you.


In other news...

I understand that I'm an atyptical user, in that I'd be surprised if my 360 got 200h of use since I got it at launch in 2005, but cripes, am I the only person on the planet who never has any issues with a launch console? My launch release PSP had no dead pixels, either. I must have some gaming karma spirit perched on my shoulder to make these things work for me.

[Metal Jesus]

My original X360 died...and then my roommate's original just died. There is definitely something wrong...

Thankfully MS is great about free/quick replacements.

[GrinR]

For the record, I also suspect many of these downed 360's are due to poor cooling. I have a friend who said his was being cooled just fine but he had it in a entertainment rack that was closed on all but one side (the front). Sure, it had about 3-4 inches on all sides, but that hot air in the back is circulating right back into the 360.

FAIL.

[Kamalot]

Well, it's screwing customers more (in terms of downtime, hassle of having to re-download all marketplace content... esp. if you want to be able to play offline again, etc) than if the boxes were designed and built to a spec that wouldn't have such a high apparent failure rate.
I didn't have to re-download any marketplace content. I kept my hard drive and just sent the system back. That is standard procedure.

I fail to see how paying for the repairs and extending your warranty is screwing customers.

Edit: I'm not saying there aren't problems with units. Obviously there are. But Microsoft has gone out of its way to repair those issues for free. I remember another company that launched a product and told us that up to 16 dead pixels was completely acceptable, which it isn't, and then forced consumers to PAY for shipping back.

[Nighthold]

My launch day console died as well, a good year after buying it. When I sent it in they just sent an entirely new console back with my HD instead of repairing it, so I figure I have one of the newer more stable models now. Still, a shame the original design was so fucked.

[IrishWhiskey]

I understand that I'm an atyptical user, in that I'd be surprised if my 360 got 200h of use since I got it at launch in 2005, but cripes, am I the only person on the planet who never has any issues with a launch console? My launch release PSP had no dead pixels, either. I must have some gaming karma spirit perched on my shoulder to make these things work for me.
No, you're the typical user. Most people don't have problems with consoles, even more erratic ones like the launch 360s.

Its simply that those who do have problems are infinitely more likely to complain at length about their troubles on forums, while those without troubles simply pass on by. Its why that IGN poll said 50% of people had problems with their 360, when we know that isn't true. Part of the reason is that those without problems are far less likely to respond, and the other is spiteful Sony fans. The internet is hardly the most reliable barometer.

[GrinR]

No, you're the typical user. Most people don't have problems with consoles, even more erratic ones like the launch 360s.

Its simply that those who do have problems are infinitely more likely to complain at length about their troubles on forums, while those without troubles simply pass on by. Its why that IGN poll said 50% of people had problems with their 360, when we know that isn't true. Part of the reason is that those without problems are far less likely to respond, and the other is spiteful Sony fans. The internet is hardly the most reliable barometer.

Good Christ almighty we agree. CONTACT THE MEDIA.

[ilian]

I didn't have to re-download any marketplace content. I kept my hard drive and just sent the system back. That is standard procedure.

I fail to see how paying for the repairs and extending your warranty is screwing customers.

Microsoft repairing my console for "free" has ended up costing me 330$ so far. Microsoft claims they will be refunding 150$ of that only, and I havn't go the check yet, doubting ill see interest on that.

[fitbabits]

For the record, I also suspect many of these downed 360's are due to poor cooling. I have a friend who said his was being cooled just fine but he had it in a entertainment rack that was closed on all but one side (the front). Sure, it had about 3-4 inches on all sides, but that hot air in the back is circulating right back into the 360.

FAIL.
I agree. I've seen where some people keep their 360s and it makes my skin crawl! :(

[PsychoticVile]

I bought my 360 last March and it locks up within 20 to 30 mins of playing any game but then once I reboot it the unit will run fine until I change games or turn it off for the night then it will do the same thing.

I also had a question I called it in for service and they told me I would have to provide my on box and packing to ship it in. However I keep hearing people say they were sent a special box by Mircosoft have they changed their policy on this or should I call them back and ask WTF?

[Conductor_Grey]

My gut tells me the failure rate on the 360 is 0.8 percent.

[ilian]

I bought my 360 last March and it locks up within 20 to 30 mins of playing any game but then once I reboot it the unit will run fine until I change games or turn it off for the night then it will do the same thing.

I also had a question I called it in for service and they told me I would have to provide my on box and packing to ship it in. However I keep hearing people say they were sent a special box by Mircosoft have they changed their policy on this or should I call them back and ask WTF?

Both of my repairs I had to pay for shipping, i even talked to a supervisor both times, and was unable to get them to send me a box.

[karak]

Of 22 xbox's in my team. Only 1 failed. His was using the Intercooler and it died.
I feel lucky.

[Conductor_Grey]

The two of my 360s use the Intercooler. Sometimes the cord doesn't even connect right on it and it'll get the cooler to work but the power supply will still be on standby. It just doesn't seem like a good fit with that.

[Evil Avnovice]

With Microsoft trying to get a handle on their defective 360's, now sounds like a good time to get some data-backing software.

[agentgray]

I still don't see why this is an issue. Early adopter, of any system, get screwed in the long run.
I agree Gunny, except for one thing:

Nintendo.

[karak]

I agree Gunny, except for one thing:

Nintendo.
Do you mean because they don't break. Because I had a Defective Gamecube and my friends brand to Nintendo Wii stopped working about a week after purchase. He has since replaced it.

[agentgray]

Microsoft has gone out of its way to repair those issues for free.
I smell class-action lawsuit prevention.

[Jacob Singer]

Knock on wood...my lauch day 360 is still working fine. For someone to have that many go bad in one location, could there be some mojo in the current, air or something?

I don't have much to add, but this is the case for me as well. Haven't had a single problem with my launch 360. And I even use it to watch dvds (or did, 'til I got the HD-DVD unit).

[Hydroeric]

Rule of Thumb for any software/hardware: Don't buy v1.0 of anything unless you are prepared and/or willing to accept the potential fallout.

I am not saying this crap SHOULDN'T work right out of the box. In a perfect world it would. There is a major difference between therotical/lab/test results and your ball sack turning blue from using that hair cream that worked fine on lab rats.

Buyer Beware!

[agentgray]

Do you mean because they don't break. Because I had a Defective Gamecube and my friends brand to Nintendo Wii stopped working about a week after purchase. He has since replaced it.
I'll go from my perception:

Of all the friends I have online and off who have 360s all but one have had failures. This is close to thirty people. Of all my friends who have a Nintendo unit of any type I have not heard of any failures. (I'll not count a pixel failure on a DS or PSP)

Your friend's Wii is the first I heard of a failure.

Of course, a Wii is a second-gen 'Cube so go figure.

[karak]

I'll go from my perception:

Of all the friends I have online and off who have 360s all but one have had failures. This is close to thirty people. Of all my friends who have a Nintendo unit of any type I have not heard of any failures. (I'll not count a pixel failure on a DS or PSP)

Your friend's Wii is the first I heard of a failure.

Of course, a Wii is a second-gen 'Cube so go figure.
I feel sad for those guys. Thats truly too bad.

[Grimmjow]

I'm on the same boat....bought mine @ launch and it died on me January 5th,07 :(

[Double T]

Out of myself and 3 friends that bought release 360's, only 2 are still functioning. I count the days until they die....

I figured out a way to get a new 360 whenever I need to, so MS will be getting all of my broken future 360's and I'll be getting new ones. I ain't waiting 3 weeks for a refurb, bump that noise!

[MrChaz]

I've just received my third console since launch and it's another '05 one so will probably die in 6 months again.
Just as another $0.02 A poll on Shacknews had the failure rate at 12-15%

[Sloth]

Are newer 360s failing? I know the first gen ones are flakey, and when you send them in, I wouldn't be surprised if you get one back that was a refurb of another flakey system. Thus starting a circle of failure, but for the new units rolling off the assembly line, is there failure rate lower?

[Citizen Philip]

I believe I was reading a technical white page article about this problem, apparently the flux capacitor is not receiving the 1.21 gigawatt power that is needs to reach optimal temperatures. Some system appear to be reaching either not enough or too much power. It further indicated that the manufacturing facility may have been hit by lightening during a particular sensitive part of production.

I guess, if they can fix that the cooling shouldn't be an issue.

Here's a closeup shot.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/96/Flux1.jpg/180px-Flux1.jpg

[grunter]

Gunny, all that would be true if it weren't for the fact that it's not a small percentage, and it's not restricted to early adopters.
Wouldn't mind seeing these factual numbers. Do you have a link/s that show the failure rate vs sold?

[jpublic]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/96/Flux1.jpg/180px-Flux1.jpg

Dude, Flux capacitor is *Sony*. X360 clearly uses an OSCILLATION OVERTHRUSTER.

http://www.banzai-institute.com/images/OO%20auction.jpg

[ilian]

Are newer 360s failing? I know the first gen ones are flakey, and when you send them in, I wouldn't be surprised if you get one back that was a refurb of another flakey system. Thus starting a circle of failure, but for the new units rolling off the assembly line, is there failure rate lower?

2 people in my office got new xbox360s for christmas.. one had their powersupply fail and is waiting to get a new one, the other had the main xbox fail and is waiting to get his back.

ive heard the failure rate is a lot lower though. Mine wasnt a first gen one, and it failed too, but it isnt as new as theirs.

[Zurik]

This problem that everyone is having is very easily explainable. The 360 uses a SiS Chipset. Most IT guys would tell you the same.

[Johan]

Good points all around. The fact is there have been too many issues with quality controls on the 360 hardware-side (my first one died as well), but MS is doing a heckuva lot to deal with people squarely and fairly, as well.

[Paranoia]

This issue is the only thing that stops me from buying the X360.

Its unbelievable failure rate for a console you have to wonder if it equals to that of Atari 5200's dreaded controller.

[Moab Bomb]

I still don't see why this is an issue. Early adopter, of any system, get screwed in the long run. They are always the final beta testers. :) Let's be honest here: there is nothing MS could do short of giving everyone who sends in a broken system a brand new one (and that's just not economically feasible) that will satisfy the entire public. What they have done, to this point, I think has been very customer friendly. Free repairs, extending the warranty, etc. are all good steps.

Balderdash. I've been an early adopter of the Atari Video Computer System (renamed the 2600), Intellivision, Colecovision, and Genesis. Additionally, I've owned a Magnavox Odyssey 200, Atari Video Pinball, NES, Game Gear and 16 original Xbox. I have never had warranty issues on ANY ONE OF THEM. And what Microsoft has done is somewhat customer friendly. Sending customers malfunctioning refurbs-well, maybe not-so-friendly. Of the 7 returns, 2 were refurbs that I had for less than 30 days. #7 experienced it's first hard freeze within 5 minutes of powering on the first time. Yes, I am the chump ex-fanboy in the story.

The systems this guy bought were for use in a game center. That means they were on 10+ hours a day and constantly being used. Of course they are going to need repairs sooner than a system owned by a regular gamer.
Sadly, no. If the systems had been on 10 hours a day in constant use, we wouldn't have gone out of business. The daily average per console was closer to 2 or 3 hours- I am CERTAIN that a lot of your own personal systems see much more use. And I ran a pretty tight ship-there was no abuse (although I personally dropped one that worked for another 7 or 8 months before it died). I am proud to report that with the 360s and 16 Xbox 1s, I suffered only one disc scratched by DVD drives. As I said, there was no abuse/overuse. And remember-3 were personal systems (#6 died end of December, #7 died in mid January-it was the replacement for #6).

Early adopters know that the systems they buy do not have all the bugs worked out. The history of gaming proves that. What more do you expect from them?


MY gaming history poops on that statement. If I expected these launch units to be as reliable as Britney in rehab, would I have spent over $4,000 on 360s and games, let alone drive around with XBOX360 license plates? It's funny how, when I was at Zero Hour amongst a couple thousand other early adopters that I never heard anyone say "The new 360s are friggin SUH-WEET! It's a damn shame they are all gonna break in a speedy and efficient manner." And what more do I expect from them (I assume you mean Microsoft), you ask? Well, as I said earlier-Stop sending refurb units out that don't work. And it shouldn't take a letter to Peter Moore to get a new console.



One guy on the BBC consumer affairs show had nine failed consoles, so I call Rob and Mindy Cassingham of Moab, Utah, stone cold quitters!

/edit - boy there's a scary picture in that link. I'll be scarred for life!
Excellent. My plan continues apace.

I wonder if the failures are heat related or not. It seems odd that some people keep having system after system fail, while others don't have any problems.

An understandable question. In our particular case, the game center systems were kept horizontal, with nothing above them, nothing closer than 20" behind them, nothing within 10 inches on either side (Phun Phact: The winter of 2005/06, we never turned on the heat in our business-the 360s kept the shop toasty on all but the very coldest nights). The personal systems have 16" behind, 6" above, 6" either side.

[cp#]

My roomies has broken twice (originally purchased early 2006). He got a new one back about 2 weeks ago (manufacture Nov 2006) let's see how long it lasts

[agentgray]

I've just received my third console since launch and it's another '05 one so will probably die in 6 months again.
Just as another $0.02 A poll on Shacknews had the failure rate at 12-15%
Ours puts us at almost 37% out of 92 voters.

http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23380&highlight=light+club

[Watership]

Why are there so many REPEAT failures? I know a group of people with 4 dead 360s. but but hardly anyone with JUST one.

[Johan]

Why are there so many REPEAT failures? I know a group of people with 4 dead 360s. but but hardly anyone with JUST one.

I think because people send the broken one in for repairs and get a refurbished one...which proceeds to break again.

I had one failure, within about ten days of buying the thing. I took it in to Best Buy, returned it completely, and bought a new one. No problems since.

I'm very glad I was able to do that. Refurbished is, in my opinion, a nice way of saying, "only a little broken."

[mister_slim]

This (http://forums.xbox.com/10517164/ShowPost.aspx#10517164) is kind of interesting. Apparently Microsoft didn't actually extend the warrantees on the 2005-manufactured 360s.

[blankoboy]

And we wonder why no one in Japan is buying one.

/Japanese shoppers = notorious sticklers for quality (and suckers for brand name image).

[92miata]

man people, just start buying your consoles at costco. check the return policy.....:)

same with tv's.

miata out.....:)

[Zeal]

Microsoft needs to get their shit together. The systems are inherently flawed and continue to break.

[DigitalFirefly]

I'm sending my 4th system back. I've had 3 die in the last 2 months.

[Johan]

I'm sending my 4th system back. I've had 3 die in the last 2 months.

It's all your fault! ;)

[Kamalot]

It's all your fault! ;)
Seriously! I bet you tried PLAYING it, didn't you?

DIDN'T YOU?!

WTF is WRONG with you man?!

;)

[Math]

And I'll add that for every person who says "well, my friends and I are all on our 5th and 6th 360" there is probably 5-10 times as many people who could say "well, my friends and I have 360s that work just fine."

Using mathematics:

If there is one person who not abusing their console, and has had 6 failed consoles in a row, then there is probably a failure rate of averaging somewhere around 7% over all the consoles sold.

(0.07)^6 x 10 million consoles = about 1 person.

If there is more than one person who has had 6 or more failures in a row, then the failure rate is probably higher.

If that other guy on the BBC had nine failed consoles in a row is telling the truth, then the failure rate is probably around 17%.

The failure rates are probably higher than this, because there would be a lot of people, who have had problems that haven't called up the BBC.

[TrackZero]

Eh, I'm still on my first 360 that I bought in Feb '06. Fingers crossed nothing ever happens to it.

[UnderHero5]

I don't own a 360 yet, however I know two people who do. My cousin and my sisters boyfriend. My cousin is on his second 360, he got the first one this past Christmas and it broke before the end of January. So far his second one has given a couple DRE's but seems to be working still for the moment.
His first one dug up his copy of GoW with circular scratches. He returned both the 360 and game to WalMart for new ones (since it was so soon since purchase).

My sister's boyfriends is still working fine, as far as I know.

So of the two people I know with a 360, one has broken, and it wasn't a launch system.

[Moab Bomb]

No, seriously. Imagine:
1 dead 360 gets the 'Red Ring Rookie' acheesement (For Japan, maybe the 'Led Ling Lookie' acheesement).
3 dead= 'STEEE-RIKE THREE!' acheesement.
5= 'Five Golden Rings (of Death)'.
7= 'Unlucky 7even'.
10= 'Imperfect 10'.
Each could be worth, say, 200 points. They would be the only achievements ya didn't want. Still, I'd be up 800 points, and that would be some (very faint) compensation.
Now, how do we make it happen?

[Craigtheplague]

I still don't see why this is an issue. Early adopter, of any system, get screwed in the long run. They are always the final beta testers. :) Let's be honest here: there is nothing MS could do short of giving everyone who sends in a broken system a brand new one (and that's just not economically feasible) that will satisfy the entire public. What they have done, to this point, I think has been very customer friendly. Free repairs, extending the warranty, etc. are all good steps.

The systems this guy bought were for use in a game center. That means they were on 10+ hours a day and constantly being used. Of course they are going to need repairs sooner than a system owned by a regular gamer.

Early adopters know that the systems they buy do not have all the bugs worked out. The history of gaming has proved that. To continually bitch about it is just silly. There are millions of people with XB360s that work perfectly fine and continue to do so. The small percentage that has had issues does not mean there is something "WRONG" with the 360. For that small percentage 360 has taken amiable steps to address the issue. What more do you expect from them?

And I'll add that for every person who says "well, my friends and I are all on our 5th and 6th 360" there is probably 5-10 times as many people who could say "well, my friends and I have 360s that work just fine."

This is an issue. The amount of stories regarding failure on the web including the users of this forum is astronomical. We've been hearing about abnormal failure amounts over a year ago. Aside form the backwards compatibility/upscaling problems, I haven't seen any stories about ps3s ceasing to function for no reason. If there were these types of stories, we would sure as hell be seeing them on the front page of this site.

In spite of all this, Microsoft is handling the situation as best as they can. It's annoying to be without the console for 2 weeks but at least it's no money out of our pockets (aside from shipping) for most of us.

[silv]

I have seen PS3's failing. There were a number of YouTube video's of them posted online back during the XMas season.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjAeKMyxt3I

[Sloth]

What about the PS3s? I've heard of a few PS3s going dead, but nothing like the 360s

[Schnoogs]

My 360 has been going strong for over a year now...suckas!!! ;)

[Sinistar]

Gunny is saying that "We, the unfortunate ones with the broken 360's, are in the minority" which I would probably agree with.

But the mentioning of these broken 360's has consistently climbed daily on this site (I'm sure on other sites too - but I don't read them :D ).

Anymore, it's not a matter of IF your launch 360 will die, it's more like WHEN.

[MORGiON]

Just a thought, Do all the replaced units count as units shipped?

[Moab Bomb]

So far as I can see, the PS3 has appeared to be very reliable-but all other aspects, I gotta give the nod to the 360, even though it has viciously raped my now-tattered fanboy innocence. WHEN I have a working 360, the gaming experience (don't forget about a superior controller) is superb. I can only hope that the reliability is finally TRULY getting better. The overall experience, breakdowns aside, is currently a million miles ahead of the PS3, so sez me.

[Wolvie]

I'm starting to wonder if I'm the only guy who DIDN'T get a bum unit on launch day...and I'm also wondering how long I have till my 360 dies... *eyes 360 worriedly*

[TrackZero]

Dude, Flux capacitor is *Sony*. X360 clearly uses an OSCILLATION OVERTHRUSTER.

http://www.banzai-institute.com/images/OO%20auction.jpg

That just went over SO many people's heads. ;) Wonderful.

[TrackZero]

I don't own a 360 yet, however I know two people who do. My cousin and my sisters boyfriend. My cousin is on his second 360, he got the first one this past Christmas and it broke before the end of January. So far his second one has given a couple DRE's but seems to be working still for the moment.
His first one dug up his copy of GoW with circular scratches. He returned both the 360 and game to WalMart for new ones (since it was so soon since purchase).

My sister's boyfriends is still working fine, as far as I know.

So of the two people I know with a 360, one has broken, and it wasn't a launch system.

I've only ever heard of the circular scratches happening when people reposition horizontal/vertical while a game is in play (which the manuals tell you not to do).

[MrChaz]

Ours puts us at almost 37% out of 92 voters.

http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23380&highlight=light+club
Wow, thats crazy. You guys really are hardcore :)

[tdurdan1]

To all the dedicated xbox fans who refuse to admit that microsoft has a problem with the 360, your ignorance is sad.
I personally went through 4 360's in 9 months, each bringing forward a different problem. After that i called on the last one to microsoft to get it repaired again and they told me that my warrentee had expired. I had the system for only 2 weeks when this one shot. The only deal they offered me was a % off of repair service which came to $97. I gave up on microsoft and got rid of my broken 360 and picked up a PS3.

FYI, i also manage a game retailer(unnamed) but we have people who bring in their 360's all the time after having them purchased for merely a week. I just sent out 7 defective systems from just one week, and wont be surprised when we match that this upcoming week. The fact of the matter is microsoft can extend their warrentee, offer free repairs, free shipping or whatever else, but when does the inconvience of it all come into effect. People want their system to work immediatly. My system shouldnt be like a car, whose oil has to be changed every 3 months to operate correctly.

[grognard66]

I'm waiting for my 4th 360 to come back in from repair. I'm such a sucker I broke down and just bought another 360 so I have a backup unit! MS seriously needs to revisit their customer service policies to allow for overnight shipments and to write off as a loss any units returned with a fab date before Spring 2006 and replace them with new units.

There were obviously quite a few lemons from the first few months of manufacture and it's not fair to treat loyal customers this way with a revolving door of refurb units. I love the 360 but the reliability is a significant issue and needs to be addressed.

[Deathwave]

I think you are kidding yourself if you say that a console dying on you is ok, or that it's not a big deal. Every console I ever owned has worked from beginning to end...it's what they are supposed to do. If companies can't make a console work don't market it, end of story.

[DangerousDaze]

grognard66 has really brought it home for me. He's had 4 consoles go bad on him, and has had to pony up a second time for a "standby" 360 so he's got something to play on while his first machine ping-pongs its way around the repair shop. That's tragic. Except for Microsoft, because they made two sales instead of one.

[Kamalot]

^------I agree. That's just wrong. I hope grognard66 gets compensated for his troubles.