Blizzard counter sues WoW bot creator

[GunnyMo]

Blizzard has filed a counter suit (http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=12848) against Michael Donnelly, creater of WoWGlider. WoWGlider is a bot program that will do quests and hunts for a WoW account holder.

The original suit (pdf), filed in November of 2006, filed by WoWGlider creator Michael Donnelly after being visited at his home by a 'high ranking officer of Vivendi' and a lawyer for both Vivendi and Blizzard, sought a trial by jury if the companies thought that his creation had, as they had accused, violated both World of Warcraft copyrights and the DMCA.

WoWGlider is a third-party program created by Donnelly to circumvent the need for a player to be present during WoW sessions by setting elaborate scripts to automatically perform quests and hunts. Donnelly charged $25 for a key to unlock the program.

In response, Vivendi and Blizzard filed a countersuit on February 16th seeking "monetary relief including damages sustained by Blizzard in an amount not yet determined."

The seven-count countersuit (available in pdf form via WoWGlider's site) claims that "Blizzard has suffered damage in an amount to be proven at trial, including but not limited to loss of goodwill among WoW users, diversion of Blizzard resources to prevent access by WoWGlider users, loss of revenue from terminated users, and decreased subscription revenue from undetected WoWGlider users."
Anything Blizzard does to crack down on cheaters is good news.

[Gorvi]

That is friggin' great. Go Blizzard. :)

[Klade]

This is pretty interesting. So far no one has wanted to take an MMO company to trial on their EULA because it pretty plainly states that this kind of thing is strictly prohibited. If Donnelly gets the EULA tossed out it opens a lot of legal questions about MMOs and what kind of duties they might end up owing their clients.

For instance right now the EULA for most games provides that there is no right to privacy in MMOs.

[jpublic]

Most EULAs have 0 teeth in courts, because of the way they're presented to the consumer - you aren't able to make an informed decision on the EULA when *purchasing* the product, you can only do it when *installing*, and no company I know of has provisions for you to regain your money if you disagree.

Now, several years back the EULAs got tossed when it was written on an envelope in the game box - I wouldn't be surprised if the courts decided that having it in the game installer is even worse, so it's entirely possible the WoW EULA gets tossed on rule of law.

OTOH, in the modern climate, the legislature tends to be a lot more sympathetic to protecting publisher rights, so I wouldn't be surprised if that sympathy extends to the judiciary.

[bean19]

This is pretty interesting. So far no one has wanted to take an MMO company to trial on their EULA because it pretty plainly states that this kind of thing is strictly prohibited. If Donnelly gets the EULA tossed out it opens a lot of legal questions about MMOs and what kind of duties they might end up owing their clients.

For instance right now the EULA for most games provides that there is no right to privacy in MMOs.

Well, I'm not sure that the EULA will cover this. It may be perfectly legal to create and sell a program that is designed to automate play in WoW. The EULA is a contract between the user and Blizzard. They may be able to ban Donnely's accounts, because he is breaking the EULA if/when he personally uses his WoWGlider on their servers, but that doesn't extend to what programs he can create and sell.

This is sort of like going after the guy who makes safe-cracking equipment. He is the source of the problem because he creates the ability for the problem to occur. However, he isn't actually breaking into people's safes.

They still may get him on something else. He is causing them direct damages through the proliferation of the device. I'd need to study up on precedent to get an idea on how Blizzard plans to pursue recovery.

[phantomhitman]

and no company I know of has provisions for you to regain your money if you disagree.


Microsoft Windows XP clearly states that. On the box and in the agreement. But that is the only one I have ever seen.

[Sloth]

If you can't tell a bot from a player how does it affect you? I think the more sophisticated these programs get it only highlights the simplicity of the game. If you can create a bot that behaves and accomplishes the samething as a live player, who is really at fault here?

If someone would rather bot their way through an MMO, personally I think thats their problem. Not mine. I choose to play, they obviously have other reasons for playing.

[Gorvi]

If you can't tell a bot from a player how does it affect you? I think the more sophisticated these programs get it only highlights the simplicity of the game. If you can create a bot that behaves and accomplishes the samething as a live player, who is really at fault here?

If someone would rather bot their way through an MMO, personally I think thats their problem. Not mine. I choose to play, they obviously have other reasons for playing.

It's more complex than that. In a game with a player defined economy, someone constantly botting when they're at work/sleeping/doing something else is going to throw things out of whack.

[Borys]

Is this a cheat program at all?

It does nothing more than a human player, it does not hack, steal, speed etc. through the game. It just moves the pointer and clicks around.

[Kweli]

Oh no... now the Chinese farmers will have to get a real job!

I hear they are hiring at nike

[Kweli]

Its not a cheat... but people sell 'power leveling' services....and sell gold for "real money"

This basically allows someone to make money off the game

[Sloth]

It's more complex than that. In a game with a player defined economy, someone constantly botting when they're at work/sleeping/doing something else is going to throw things out of whack.

I don't know about that. In theory you can do that already. I know people who play Wow 24/7, they end up dying in internet cafes but they still do it. My point is, the game allows for people to be on as long as they want. If a bot program does the same thing a human player does, how can it be harmful to the game

[Scramble]

I'm not really up to date with this "player defined economy" thing. It's not real, and it's not like there's any governments in the game that will collapse due to inflation. How is it different if someone gold farms or a bot does it? Either way it's going to be done by some people.
But I do think it's silly to pay for an MMO and to not actually play it. Might as welll give the money straight to me!

[Klade]

Well, I'm not sure that the EULA will cover this. It may be perfectly legal to create and sell a program that is designed to automate play in WoW. The EULA is a contract between the user and Blizzard. They may be able to ban Donnely's accounts, because he is breaking the EULA if/when he personally uses his WoWGlider on their servers, but that doesn't extend to what programs he can create and sell.

This is sort of like going after the guy who makes safe-cracking equipment. He is the source of the problem because he creates the ability for the problem to occur. However, he isn't actually breaking into people's safes.

They still may get him on something else. He is causing them direct damages through the proliferation of the device. I'd need to study up on precedent to get an idea on how Blizzard plans to pursue recovery.

In this case its not just Donnelly's accounts that are effected. He is making a program who's only purpose is to violate the EULA. By selling it he is actively encouraging others to break the EULA. The difference between this and the safe cracking guy is that there can be legitimate use for safe cracking equipment. If the safe cracking guy was selling equipment that can only be used for illegal purposes then he could be arrested as well.

[Gorvi]

I don't know about that. In theory you can do that already. I know people who play Wow 24/7, they end up dying in internet cafes but they still do it. My point is, the game allows for people to be on as long as they want. If a bot program does the same thing a human player does, how can it be harmful to the game

Say for example (and I've never played WoW, but this should fit) there's drop x that gets used for item x. Having 1 person continually bot said item would flood the market with that item, killing the market for it. That's an overly simplified example, but it still fits.

[Sloth]

Say for example (and I've never played WoW, but this should fit) there's drop x that gets used for item x. Having 1 person continually bot said item would flood the market with that item, killing the market for it. That's an overly simplified example, but it still fits.

is one person really going to flood the market? Look at it this way, if that spawn existed then its probably camped by someone already. That item is already "flooding" the market just being put there by more than 1 person. The result to the economy of 1 person doing it is the same as 20.

However WoW doesn't work like that, item drops are all soulbound which means they bind when picked up. Bind on Equip items are random off any mob you can't camp them. Same with crafting components.

[blankoboy]

WoW Cruise control is a crime somehow? Oh boy....

[Gorvi]

is one person really going to flood the market? Look at it this way, if that spawn existed then its probably camped by someone already. That item is already "flooding" the market just being put there by more than 1 person. The result to the economy of 1 person doing it is the same as 20.

However WoW doesn't work like that, item drops are all soulbound which means they bind when picked up. Bind on Equip items are random off any mob you can't camp them. Same with crafting components.

Ahh, then I stand corrected. I have no experience with WoW, so there ya go.

[lockwoodx]

You guys defending wowglider make me sick.

[Sloth]

You guys defending wowglider make me sick.

I'm not defending wowglider, i'm pointing out that bots are the inevitable conclusion to MMOs in their current form. If you can make a program that mimicks a real life player, then your game is obviously not offering much of a challenge.

[Klade]

I'm not defending wowglider, i'm pointing out that bots are the inevitable conclusion to MMOs in their current form. If you can make a program that mimicks a real life player, then your game is obviously not offering much of a challenge.

The fact that bots will come whenever you have MMOs (something I agree with) doesn't mean that Blizzard shouldn't try to shut them down whenever they find one. And heres one that is selling the bot right in the good ol' US of A.

And if you don't think a bot can ruin the economy then you either have no idea how MMOs work or are just completely delusional. Not everything in WoW is bind on pickup. There are lots of items that a worth a good amount of gold that can be sold in the auction house. Oh and btw, blizzard doesn't allow paid for power leveling either, its just harder to ketch.

[Sloth]

The fact that bots will come whenever you have MMOs (something I agree with) doesn't mean that Blizzard shouldn't try to shut them down whenever they find one. And heres one that is selling the bot right in the good ol' US of A.

And if you don't think a bot can ruin the economy then you either have no idea how MMOs work or are just completely delusional. Not everything in WoW is bind on pickup. There are lots of items that a worth a good amount of gold that can be sold in the auction house. Oh and btw, blizzard doesn't allow paid for power leveling either, its just harder to ketch.

ok let me ask you this then, would you care about bots if they didn't sell any of their goods on the AH?

[ilian]

Yes a normal player could do this anyways.. No I dont personally really care who is botting or not.

yes, this is still a cheat.


You can argue about how much damage its doing or not doing, but arguing that its not cheating is absurd.

[Mrbunchypants]

Ok I’m going to confess that I have played wow since launch and yet to have any of my (now like 20) charters reach anything higher than lvl 54. It seems that I just don't have the time to spend in front of the computer let alone even at home.

Now I'm not saying that I would bot the whole time but it would be nice if just one of my charters could do some of the high end content. Just one that’s all I ask.

[Citizen Philip]

QQ Noob!
.
.
.

[Klade]

ok let me ask you this then, would you care about bots if they didn't sell any of their goods on the AH?

Yes I would. The reason why is that using this program you get a lot of people at high levels that don't know how to play there character and in general flood the high level areas. For people that got to high levels through valid traditional means this results in us both having to compete with a bunch of folks who don't know how to play there character and in general more folk then there should be in that area anyway.

[NeoSuplex]

I'm not defending wowglider, i'm pointing out that bots are the inevitable conclusion to MMOs in their current form. If you can make a program that mimicks a real life player, then your game is obviously not offering much of a challenge.

You can make a bot to mimic a real player in ANY game... It's called AI and It's not specific to MMOs.

To Gorvi: Welcome to the world outside FFXI. A magical place where game designers aren't retarded.

[Gorvi]

To Gorvi: Welcome to the world outside FFXI. A magical place where game designers aren't retarded.

Nice way to throw an inflammatory remark into an otherwise civil conversation. :rolleyes:

[jpublic]

How the hell am I defending WoWGlider? I just said the EULA was probably legal garbage.

[Wonka]

<devils advocate mode>

Sorry guys. But I see the existance of this bot as really more of Blizzards fault than this guy. Do people make bots to play RTS games or shooters?

NO.

Thats because those games do not suck.

If a PC can play your game better than a human, then its not fit for human consumption.

The reason everyone plays MMOs right now is NOT because of the gameplay. It's because they crave a shared experience (and a false sense of accomplishment). Until someone makes an MMO that has gameplay that is really great, I think they get what is coming to them.

Besides this, WOW is currently strangling the life out of PC gaming right now by permanently dominating the space. I have no idea why everyone loves them so much. They are not doing this to help YOU. From a game business perspective, MMOs are like a cancer to the marketplace of games that displaces normal consumers.


As for the WOWGlider product, I think that the question is: Is it simply WRONG for him to make this product? (ie. cheating) Or is he just writing software to profit off of the fact that Blizzard has made a game so dull as to make people long for automation. (simple capitalism)

I think these are fair questions.

</devils advocate mode>

[Sloth]

Yes I would. The reason why is that using this program you get a lot of people at high levels that don't know how to play there character and in general flood the high level areas. For people that got to high levels through valid traditional means this results in us both having to compete with a bunch of folks who don't know how to play there character and in general more folk then there should be in that area anyway.

This is pure speculation on your part that bots are the result of this. You're basically saying high level players are incompetent because they botted to high levels.

I hardly think this is the case. I would wager that the majority of bad high level players are bad simply because they are hopeless in real life too.

[Klade]

This is pure speculation on your part that bots are the result of this. You're basically saying high level players are incompetent because they botted to high levels.

I hardly think this is the case. I would wager that the majority of bad high level players are bad simply because they are hopeless in real life too.

Its actually not "pure" speculation since I have run into bot users before and seen them not have a clue how to play their characters. Same thing applies to people that buy their character. You will run into them most often on battlegrounds.

Now have I done a survey where the sample is the entire population of bot users? No of course not. I think that doing such a thing is pretty much impossible. Under the circumstances personal experience is the best that just about anyone can really get.

Additionally is it so hard to imagine that people who use a bot program will both accelerate in levels faster then others and thus flood certain areas, and will not know how to play their character as well as those that leveled up under their own power?

[NeoSuplex]

Nice way to throw an inflammatory remark into an otherwise civil conversation. :rolleyes:
I do what I can.

[kid cabelgo]

Well, I'm not sure that the EULA will cover this. It may be perfectly legal to create and sell a program that is designed to automate play in WoW. The EULA is a contract between the user and Blizzard. They may be able to ban Donnely's accounts, because he is breaking the EULA if/when he personally uses his WoWGlider on their servers, but that doesn't extend to what programs he can create and sell.

This is sort of like going after the guy who makes safe-cracking equipment. He is the source of the problem because he creates the ability for the problem to occur. However, he isn't actually breaking into people's safes.

They still may get him on something else. He is causing them direct damages through the proliferation of the device. I'd need to study up on precedent to get an idea on how Blizzard plans to pursue recovery.

I'm pretty sure he has absolutely no case. His program includes a pirated copy of the the wow executable to circumvent cheat protection for god's sake

[kid cabelgo]

<devils advocate mode>

Sorry guys. But I see the existance of this bot as really more of Blizzards fault than this guy. Do people make bots to play RTS games or shooters?

NO.




Uh...

aimbots?

So yes?

[reimomo]

I'm pretty sure he has absolutely no case. His program includes a pirated copy of the the wow executable to circumvent cheat protection for god's sake

lol yeah, that's a problem.

MMO's are communal games. Cheating in an MMO is not like cheating in Diablo solo play... it does have an impact on the community in general, and other players in specific. You are in cooperation with a small-ish group of players, and direct or indirect competition with everyone else. How can botting not be considered disruptive?

[phantomhitman]

You guys defending wowglider make me sick.you mmorogmrormg players make me sick

(i hope you read this as sarcastic)
(you dumb mmorpg player) ;)

[J-Dizzle]

It's interesting innit ?
I'm a WoW player since launch also. Never botted, but wouldn't mind if I could get away with it.

The thing is, you need to progress in WoW, and it's a long road to level 60. Playing your character is actually a very rich and complex experience. There's so much to do and learn, and each character has strengths and weaknesses and unique strategies.

However, a high percentage (what would we guess ? 60% ?) of the process to get your character up to 60 is repetative.

If you are grinding (and there's a reason this word is used) for XP, money, reputation or items either way it get's a bit repetative after a while.

If I could leave my character levelling while I was working, then come back and up his skills myself, pick up new abilities, and then play all night with my new toys... but then the NEXT day leave him grinding for XP all day too... This would make me very happy.

There are a lot of wonderful elements to WoW, and the only dull one is this that I'm talking about. Believe me when I say that if I could grind the dull bits I would DAMN sure know how to play my character every step of the way, because I'd still play him. I'd want to add abilities myself and edit my skills tree myself, and go train with the trainer myself.

Just that hitting things on the head over and over can kill the spirit a little.

Is this a flaw in the overall MMO design ? Probably, but it's one shared by all.

Is there a better solution ? Dunno. Probably, but I don't know what it is :)

[BGSS]

Most EULAs have 0 teeth in courts, because of the way they're presented to the consumer - you aren't able to make an informed decision on the EULA when *purchasing* the product, you can only do it when *installing*, and no company I know of has provisions for you to regain your money if you disagree.


I believe that Blizzard has a policy where, if after installing and reading over the EULA (it forces you to read it when you launch the game for the first time and after each patch), if you select "Decline" without ever logging into the game, you may take steps to get a full refund from Blizzard.

[dimsumx]

Oh no... now the Chinese farmers will have to get a real job!

I hear they are hiring at nike

Wow, you wanna get more racist than that? There are plenty of non-asian users that profit and cheat from Glider.... :mad:

[Wslove]

<devils advocate mode>

Sorry guys. But I see the existance of this bot as really more of Blizzards fault than this guy. Do people make bots to play RTS games or shooters?

NO.

Thats because those games do not suck.

If a PC can play your game better than a human, then its not fit for human consumption.

The reason everyone plays MMOs right now is NOT because of the gameplay. It's because they crave a shared experience (and a false sense of accomplishment). Until someone makes an MMO that has gameplay that is really great, I think they get what is coming to them.

Besides this, WOW is currently strangling the life out of PC gaming right now by permanently dominating the space. I have no idea why everyone loves them so much. They are not doing this to help YOU. From a game business perspective, MMOs are like a cancer to the marketplace of games that displaces normal consumers.


As for the WOWGlider product, I think that the question is: Is it simply WRONG for him to make this product? (ie. cheating) Or is he just writing software to profit off of the fact that Blizzard has made a game so dull as to make people long for automation. (simple capitalism)

I think these are fair questions.

</devils advocate mode>

Actually you could bot and there are bots for shooters and RTSes. Things like AimHack and WallHack are technically bots as they take over a game function and automate it. Even though the game still requires some human input the bulk of the skill actions are taken away from the user by these bots. Further, bots are not as prevailent in these genres because they are far more competitive then an MMO and though you have cheaters the bulk of the user base will prize skill while playing over who can activate a program.

But there are bots out there that will auto zerg rush in Starcraft and kill people in shooters. If you think about it shooters are the easiest to bot. Just put the pixel that represents the center of your crosshair over the pixal that represents their head bounding box and fire. Repeat over and over for the win.

As for this bot, I really don't care if you or the others defending it like MMOs or not. The fact of the matter is that this asshole is trying to make money off an IP owned by another company. That is where I think they are going to go with this legally. With the EULA and ToS they can ban accounts left and right, but from a purely business argument this guy is actually degrading their product. While you can make a product to remove other products, and you can make a product to make other products run better, you cannot make a product that purposely degrades another product. That is what I think they will be arguing in court. That the bot is actually like a virus to WoW and intentially degrades the value of their product, thus entitling them to just compinsation. Least, that's what the prelim arguements seem to be heading.

[D_Reaper]

Sorry to nitpick, but you put creater instead of creator after the person's name.

[TyphoidMarty]

is one person really going to flood the market? Look at it this way, if that spawn existed then its probably camped by someone already. That item is already "flooding" the market just being put there by more than 1 person. The result to the economy of 1 person doing it is the same as 20.

However WoW doesn't work like that, item drops are all soulbound which means they bind when picked up. Bind on Equip items are random off any mob you can't camp them. Same with crafting components.
Yeah they really do. You see for sale on the auction house stacks and stacks of the same item from person x every day, driving the price lower and lower. Now it is not worth my time to farm that item.

Potions went through the floor on my old server Dark Iron. Not worth my time to farm ingredients and make them.

*edit* Having said that though, there is a legal use for the program. If you are sitting at the computer watching it work, that is legal by the EULA. As such I found the safe cracker example to be a salient one. Whether I find people who use this to be a damned nuisance, they are taking their chances with getting banned and he created a program which technically has a valid use. I think Blizzard is trying to bluff and it probably will not work.

[bean19]

I'm not defending wowglider, i'm pointing out that bots are the inevitable conclusion to MMOs in their current form. If you can make a program that mimicks a real life player, then your game is obviously not offering much of a challenge.

Interesing point.

The thing is, the bots CAN'T take on the game's challenging content. They can't beat instanced group missions that often have challening boss fights that require you to alter your strategy. They can't fight in PvP as altering strategy based on both personal and group tactics as well as predicting an unpredictable enemy is also beyond a bot's capabilities.

What "challenge" bots remove is the "challenge" of grinding through the game. Maybe they should simply get rid of all xp gain that isn't related to questing (0 xp for kills and mega-xp for quests). This would correctly put the focus on the part of the game that is actually challenging, engaging, and fun.

However, you'd have a whole group of players who love to grind - both for xp and loot - really angry at you as a result. It would also make crafting really annoying as you'd not get an xp reward while grinding for crafting items.

Grinding is not challenging at all. Bots can do it. You are right about this.

However, that doesn't mean that MMOs do not also contain challenging content that is beyond a bot's capabilities.

[Wonka]

Uh...

aimbots?

So yes?

Nice effort, but the last I checked, aimbots only ASSIST the player. They do not PLAY THE ENTIRE GAME FOR YOU.

Thus I would consider the aimbot to just be merely a cheat instead of a "gamer substitute".

Anyhow, it's the fact that the game can be played by a drone that really raises questions about how good of a game this really is. That's the point. If they made a game that contained immersive gameplay which actually required a humans attention, then this crap would not really be possible.

[Wonka]

Actually you could bot and there are bots for shooters and RTSes. Things like AimHack and WallHack are technically bots as they take over a game function and automate it. Even though the game still requires some human input the bulk of the skill actions are taken away from the user by these bots. Further, bots are not as prevailent in these genres because they are far more competitive then an MMO and though you have cheaters the bulk of the user base will prize skill while playing over who can activate a program.

But there are bots out there that will auto zerg rush in Starcraft and kill people in shooters. If you think about it shooters are the easiest to bot. Just put the pixel that represents the center of your crosshair over the pixal that represents their head bounding box and fire. Repeat over and over for the win.

As for this bot, I really don't care if you or the others defending it like MMOs or not. The fact of the matter is that this asshole is trying to make money off an IP owned by another company. That is where I think they are going to go with this legally. With the EULA and ToS they can ban accounts left and right, but from a purely business argument this guy is actually degrading their product. While you can make a product to remove other products, and you can make a product to make other products run better, you cannot make a product that purposely degrades another product. That is what I think they will be arguing in court. That the bot is actually like a virus to WoW and intentially degrades the value of their product, thus entitling them to just compinsation. Least, that's what the prelim arguements seem to be heading.

I agree with you that this guy is trying to make money off the other IP. Where it gets gray is whether or not this is really inherently wrong. Legally, this guy might be in deep poo, because the laws in thei country really favor large companies with good teams of lawyers. But whether it SHOULD be that way is more debatable. Consider: should MS be able to tell you that you cannot make software that runs on windows because they own that IP? Or should you be free to develop stuff whether or not they like you?

[HotCod]

See mmos are an odd thing in that they have bits that are not 'fun' but are part of the game and part of the reasion that it ironicly make you enjoy it more. When i got my frist and so far only guy to 60 (befor BC so was the end level) it was a really proud moment, i'd spent well over a week in /played time with the guy i'd had an amamzing ammout of fun with him but i dout i'd have had that same feeling if it wasn't 'hard' if i hadn't put 'work' in, which can be anything from lerning how to best play him and how the stats worked, to understaind instances and quests and exploreing the world and yes, at times, the grind to make the next level. Wow has a really good blances of all those things and yes it can be frustating at times but its what makes it much more fun when you actaly achive somthing with the game.

On top of that mmos are highly diffrent to any other kind of online play... take CS, there is rampent cheating in that, but for the most part its ignored and the best players are in clans and such anyway and the cheating really dose not mean anything. But in wow it really is a tiny world and people who have gotten to 60 or 70 now off ther own back feel cheated by this kind of bot... it means that theres 60 and 70s there now that shouldn't be, who haven't put the work in that other people have and often it can be very very hard to know who has... and as such it can devalue the feeling of achivment (the reasion that theres work in the game in the first place) that player who have gotten there them selfs feel...

Its why its diffrent than cheating in a solo game... if you win in any singelplayer game by cheating that its only your self that you cheat out of a sense of achivment... in an MMO in a small way your cheating every one on your sever out of there sense of achivment and its unfair...

As far as farming gose... yes people farm, every one farms at one point or another, but even with the best will in the world no one can be nearly as productive as a bot... and this dose lead to a flooding of the market and so takes away again from other players

[edit]

Nice effort, but the last I checked, aimbots only ASSIST the player. They do not PLAY THE ENTIRE GAME FOR YOU.

Thus I would consider the aimbot to just be merely a cheat instead of a "gamer substitute".

Anyhow, it's the fact that the game can be played by a drone that really raises questions about how good of a game this really is. That's the point. If they made a game that contained immersive gameplay which actually required a humans attention, then this crap would not really be possible.

holly crap this is bullshit... take CS the most cheated game in the world, there ARE bots for it THAT COME WITH THE GAME... you can start up a sever and fill it full of bots and play away... and trust me some of them are far FAR better than some of the players you get online... the simple fact is there is no REASION for a player to use those bots... the whole point of aimbots and so on is that the cheater useing them can feel 'awesome' or 'godlike' or what ever... or simply to piss other people playing off... i'm sure if CS had some kind of leveled xp system we'd see a tone of player bots...

Almost any game can have a bot coded for it... chirst most games COME with a bot coded for it

[Opty]

Anyone who's played WoW and stumbled upon a bot realizes how stupid the bots are so you people going "You shouldn't make your game playable by bots hurr hurr" should shut up. They target over and over a specific set of monster names: if they don't find one within a certain amount of time, they run back to town to sell the trash loot and probably mail the good Bind on Equip/Non-bind loot to another character/account so they have more bag space. Then they head back out to their farm position and do it all over again. Anything outside of this the bot can't handle: being attacked by a monster on the way back, being attacked by a player, running into a wall, etc. Thus it's super easy to tell who's a bot, especially on PvP servers.

What I do when I see a bot on the opposite side is attack them and then back away. A human would then attempt to kill me or run away, a bot will ignore me and run to the next monster. Then I wait until the bot gets into a fight, beat the shit out of it so it automatically uses a potion/bandage, beat the shit out of it some more, and then let the mob kill it so it gets durability damage, making sure they get as huge a hit to their wallet as possible.

And WoWGlider gets around WoW's hack protection by embedding a pre-hacked client within the program. This is where Blizzard's DMCA claim comes from and it's a strong one.

[Stooby]

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And WoWGlider gets around WoW's hack protection by embedding a pre-hacked client within the program. This is where Blizzard's DMCA claim comes from and it's a strong one.
I didn't know they had done that. I think you must be mistaken because you can start WoW without the launcher (which is what scans for hacks) without hacking any executable. On top of that, the only thing a scan would be able to do would be known hash checks, which doesn't work on WoWGlider. So it isn't really an issue. Also, the philosophy of WoWGlider is to be unobtrusive to the WoW memory space. Warden (WoW's antihack) checks the memory signature of the program to make sure it isn't being hacked. They put tripmines on functions that autoban if you attempt to hook the function. WoWGlider doesn't hook into WoWs memory space. Which is why WoW has so much difficulty finding it. Glider reads WoW memory space to get information and simulates keystrokes and mouse movements. So, I highly doubt that they have gone against their philosophy and hacked the WoW executable. They would have had to have done that recently, which they wouldn't have done because they knew Blizzard was trying to get grounds to sue them for DMCA violations.

I wrote the first ever bot for WoW. In beta, I wrote a bot that used the in game scripting engine. I then wrote a very popular rogue bot shortly after the release of the game. After that I worked on a pretty advanced WoW Bot that used hooking instead of just keyboard and mouse mimicking.

There is a very good reason why I spent so much time writing bots. 1-60 the first time is fun! 1-60 the second time is decent. 1-60 the third time, is a nightmare. I levelled 2 characters in beta to level cap. I leveled a mage and a rogue after the game went live. I was sick of leveling characters, but I still wanted to try out more classes. On top of that I was sick of farming for money and reputation. The game has some very fun elements, but like every MMO it has some very, very annoying shitty elements. Bots take away all of the bad things. They also ad some extremely fun things. I would love remote logging into my bot while I was at work to see how much xp/rep/money it had grinded me. And I loved checking my inventory to see what blue items/epics the bot had found. It was also nice being able to chat to my friends who were playing WoW, when I couldn't physically be logged into WoW.

I never had to farm money or items. I had thousands of gold on my characters.

Bots are not a bad thing. I think people who hate bots are just jealous that they don't have a bot. And bots don't ruin the economy. Chinas farm 100x the gold that every single botter farms combined.

I also made a lot of real money selling gold I had farmed to Chinas. When WoW first came out you could sell gold for $5/1gold. That dropped after a month or so to around $0.50/1gold. It is still good profit considering a bot would make several hundred gold overnight if you had it in a good spot.

[GunnyMo]

You're not even playing the game when you use bots. So you have 20 level 60s from bots. Big deal. You haven't earned anything, you haven't done anything in the game. It's a pathetic way to use a game. Hell, you aren't even playing the game. It's just sad.

Believe me, I've played since launch and would never use a bot. Why? Because I play the game. I guess bots just allow the fundamentally lazy ass to sit on their ass and do nothing.

[Hemalin]

ok let me ask you this then, would you care about bots if they didn't sell any of their goods on the AH?
Here's what you do, go to Felwood and kill water elementals or sayters, go to Winterspring and kill furbolgs and moonkin, go to the Plaguelands and kill undead and some Scarlet Crusade. It is impossible to do these quests without bots getting in your way and making your questing take twice as long. Bots do more than ruin the economy, they ruin the game.

[Mortal Moxie]

Wowglider forums are exploding!

This guy must be reeling in a ton of money. Too bad he's going to have to use it for a lawyer now.

[Phanto]

Its not a cheat... but people sell 'power leveling' services....and sell gold for "real money"

This basically allows someone to make money off the game

And Blizzard sell us the time for us to play the game ;) .

[Vasanni]

Alright, I am by no means condoning cheating and what have you, but can someone please explain to me how blizzard has a legit claim for damages? In what way does this take away from their bottom line? I would actually be more inclined to play if I didn't have to sit my ass at the computer and grind. People are still paying their pound of flesh every month, whether or not they have to sit and play is their choice.

[bean19]

Alright, I am by no means condoning cheating and what have you, but can someone please explain to me how blizzard has a legit claim for damages? In what way does this take away from their bottom line? I would actually be more inclined to play if I didn't have to sit my ass at the computer and grind. People are still paying their pound of flesh every month, whether or not they have to sit and play is their choice.

Well the reasons are all listed in this thread, but I'll name them for you:

1. It results in fewer subscription dollars because instead of enjoying the challenging content in the games like quests, instances, etc. to get to max level quickly instead of grinding, people are able to get a bot to play for them 24/7 and then they get to 70 and unsubscribe or they can't play their class and people don't want to play with them, so they unsubscribe.

2. It is unfair to players who do not cheat, thus Blizzard is forced to police it or alienate the majority of the player base that dislikes bots. This policing diverts customer service and costs Blizzard money as they need additional reps to handle this. Additionally, they code to detect bots and update it to detect bots - the result is more money put into coding updates that are not related to new content. This costs money.

3. It disrupts the player economy because bots are able to gain tons of money even if they do not sell things on the auction house. It also facilitates easier gold-farming that additionally disrupts the player economy. If all the cheaters have a 1000 gold, then that rare item that is up on the AH is going to go for way more than someone who is not cheating can afford. They'll be outbid by a cheater. This leads to anger from the player base that doesn't cheat and can lead to these players becoming frustrated and leaving the game or complaining or using the bot themselves (see #1 and #2).

[independentcreator]

Anything Blizzard does to crack down on cheaters is good news.

Totally! If it's in the name of cracking down on cheaters, ANYTHING is fine! They shouldn't even bother with lawsuits-- they should just hire their own squad of enforcers, and send them around the country taking these fools OUT.