Nintendo Online is coming Soon, "Not fast enough for Hardcore Gamers"

[bapenguin]

GameDaily (http://biz.gamedaily.com/industry/feature/?id=15301&page=1) has an interview up with Vice President of Marketing for Nintendo, Perrin Kaplan. In it everything is discussed from the Wii's success, the drought of games, the inevitable Wii 2.0 and of course, online.
BIZ: Let's talk about Nintendo's online plans. Obviously you have some cool stuff with the Weather Channel, News Channel, Opera browser, etc., but in terms of online gameplay Nintendo continues to lag behind. There are still no games to play online on the Wii, everyone hates those friend codes... how will Nintendo's online plans evolve?

PK: Some of that friend code stuff is really built for the mass consumer, not just the gaming world. The Wii has tons of different offerings and a lot of it was brand new. The remote, brand new. The way in which it interfaces with the screen, brand new. The channel concept, brand new. And I think if we launched it and plunked it down and said to the absolutely uninitiated, "Here's 18 things it can do," I can guarantee you it would stay in the box. It's just too intimidating. So we really strategically wanted to roll out having nearly a year talking about the remote and getting people ready, why it's unique, because it is the Einstein of the system.

And then talking about the different things the box can do and then entering with the Virtual Console piece of it and the Wii Shop channel, introducing the channels one a time—the Mii channel has taken off and people really love that. Then ultimately we did weather, news and there's a lot more to come, but we're kind of rolling it out in a fashion that is consumable for people who are not highly experienced—and also giving you guys a chance to really explore it. And online stuff has come in the Pokemon game that has launched in Japan, and it definitely will come here and I think people will be very pleased with it. But I also think we've seen other companies launch with the entire menu of stuff, and I don't think all of it gets utilized at the start.

She really kind of side steps the question, though goes into a bit more detail later on. I think when we do finally see some online play for the games on the Wii it's not going to be something very palatable for the exisiting online gamer. It sounds like they plan on dumbing it down as much as they can for the mass market consumer, ie Grandma.

[Gorvi]

Why is it so hard for them to just drop the whole Friend Code system? I'd be playing my DS online quite a bit if it weren't for that. As it stands, they're actually making it more intimidating to the casual gamer by requireing a 14 digit number to be entered for games to be played online, instead of simply finding a friend to play from a simple friends list or online lobbies.

[Mr.Green]

Some of that friend code stuff is really built for the mass consumer
How does this friend code stuff make it easier for the mass consumer?

[MrMeatshake]

As it stands, they're actually making it more intimidating to the casual gamer by requireing a 14 digit number to be entered for games to be played online, instead of simply finding a friend to play from a simple friends list or online lobbies.

more intimidating but 'safer'? for the kids or for a 'new' player.

i know i've had any number of horrendous experiences with live, and it's largely because it's so easy to play with random people. nintendo are completely avoiding that whole thing. the only people they'll let you play with have to be carefully chosen by yourself.

[Gorvi]

more intimidating but 'safer'? for the kids or for a 'new' player.

just a question, i don't propose that i know either way.

Safer can be solved in a much more user friendly manner. They could simply disable any communication online unless you agree to a EULA. Heck, make the EULA on Nintendo's website, where you have to enter a credit card for age verification (to ensure it's a parent, not the child registering). It would cover Nintnedo legally, but still allow for a more user friendly online experience.

[Rogueski]

You don't have to type any codes in to play online on the DS?!?!
I connect... I say I want to play a game... it finds others wanting to play and then starts the game.

Too long have people on here moaned about this Friends Code system. OK. If you want to play with ya mates you have to tell each other what your code is... but you are mates... and talk to each other... its no different than passing new Mobile Phone numbers around.

The PC method of Lobbies SUCKS! YES SUCKS. You see a long list of games all with either no room left or 1 person on their own (Which if they all got together would make a full server or 3). You finally find a server that you like only to find out that MasterChief3765 is actually a spawn killing fsck nut.

The Wii will probably have one code... Pokemon doesn't cos its a DS game really... and so joining games should just be a case of saying... I'm waiting... now we have enough players lets go, like the DS. And for other games like Animal Crossing... I don't want random people wandering in to my house.


The Wii is great. I didn't think that the Everybody Votes channel would be good but it is quite interesting to work out what type of people actually bought a Wii. I can't wait to see what they come up with next.

[wiredInsanity]

Yeah, there are much better ways to guarantee uniqueness. I think everyone agrees that they really need to follow the conventional model of using a user name or at the very least an email address. The friend code system is like asking someone to enter in their unique member id when logging into each website they visit. It's ridiculous.

[protocol_image]

I like how PK explained all that from the example of a person that bought the system at launch. What about somebody 6 months from now that buys a Wii (or is given one as a gift). All of those features that Nintendo so craftily released over time will all be available at once. Does that mean that the system will "remain in the box"? Will the person be sooooo intimidated because the Wii has to perform a massive update upon the first connection?

And if this is supposed to be a system that is safe for kids, yet fun for adults...where are the god damned parental controls??? keep the friend codes so that kids can trade them to play with their friends, but allow me to be able to meet strangers online....i'm a big boy, and i can take care of myself....so let me fucking play Super Smash Bros against people I don't know.

Come on.

[gspot]

The PC method of Lobbies SUCKS! YES SUCKS. You see a long list of games all with either no room left or 1 person on their own (Which if they all got together would make a full server or 3). You finally find a server that you like only to find out that MasterChief3765 is actually a spawn killing fsck nut.

Does anyone else agree with this statement, because I think it's a bunch o horseshit. Games online display the number of people playing, how long they've been playing, and normally have decent enough admins to kick fucktards. And if one doesn't, there are at the very least a dozen others that do.

[Rogueski]

You probably will be able to play that with strangers.

Its games like Animal Crossing that are FRIENDS ONLY cos you'd get idiots wandering in to random villages and slagging the player off over the chat system.

Games like Mario Kart don't have coms... and are therefore safe for strangers to play against each other. They then also give you the option to only play against friends when you get some.

[jBusy]

keep the friend codes so that kids can trade them to play with their friends, but allow me to be able to meet strangers online....i'm a big boy, and i can take care of myself....so let me fucking play Super Smash Bros against people I don't know.
Have you at least read about how friend codes work? That is exactly what it does. If you have someone's friend code, you can look them up, play with them, and chat. Or, you can connect to a random person that you can play with, but not chat.

[Stupid Fat Hobbit]

the inevitable Wii 2.0

I don't see a major DS Lite-esque hardware revision being inevitable. Nintendo haven't done that for a home console since the NES 2. Or possibly the US version of the SNES, but I wouldn't really call that major.

Unless you were just talking about the version with DVD playback.

[protocol_image]

Have you at least read about how friend codes work? That is exactly what it does. If you have someone's friend code, you can look them up, play with them, and chat. Or, you can connect to a random person that you can play with, but not chat.
Yes, this is the way I have understood the friend codes to work. The thing is, I like to meet people online that I can end up playing against in the future. If I find a random player that I end up having a really good play session with, I would like to be able to add them to a buddy list of sorts. I play Mario Kart and Tetris online almost every night, and I have seen so many good gamers come and go....never to play with them again :(

[RUSKULL]

trickling out features means nothing if the mass consumer picks it up down the road with 100 features now already built in. Intentionally dragging your feet in anything is never a good idea. I could understand that they wouldn't want a particular game to over shadow another one of their own releases, but the stuff she's talking about is free content.

And who ever takes her word anyway? Her facts about her own company are so messed up at times, you gotta wonder if she even cares what's going on. Hell, give ME her job! :P

[Kamalot]

The friend code system is like asking someone to enter in their unique member id when logging into each website they visit. It's ridiculous.
It is more like giving your phone number to people you want to be able to communicate with.

[Kamalot]

Yes, this is the way I have understood the friend codes to work. The thing is, I like to meet people online that I can end up playing against in the future. If I find a random player that I end up having a really good play session with, I would like to be able to add them to a buddy list of sorts. I play Mario Kart and Tetris online almost every night, and I have seen so many good gamers come and go....never to play with them again :(
Sounds like you want Live. Nintendo WiFi will never be live. It isn't going to be a social place to meet new people and become friends with them.

I remember reading a VERY good article about the differences in online gaming among age groups and different cultures. The results pointed to the overwhelmingly large majority of people from various cultures and age groups don't like online gaming because they meet strangers who are rude. This is like bringing rude people into your home and having them sit on your sofa.

Nintendo is seemingly aware of the larger audience it is reaching out to and making sure that the online experience is a pleasant one for the majority of users.

My parents have a Wii. The moment they get online and some punk starts talking smack, shouting racial slurs or is just an asshole, they'll stop playing.

Nintendo knows that is worse for gaming for people to have a bad online experience instead of no online experience.

[31 Flavas]

I like how PK explained all that from the example of a person that bought the system at launch. What about somebody 6 months from now that buys a Wii (or is given one as a gift). All of those features that Nintendo so craftily released over time will all be available at once. Does that mean that the system will "remain in the box"? Will the person be sooooo intimidated because the Wii has to perform a massive update upon the first connection?Well, presumably the user/customer would not be overwhelmed since Nintendo has had time to talk about and introduce the new features. Remember that Nintendo isn't just selling to you and me, but to mom and dad, grandma and grandpa, and your non-gaming girlfriend as well. Simplifying the basic game controller to two buttons and putting it the shape of a remote control was also done so it wouldn't be intimidating or overwhelming. In fact, aren't those reasons, the reason why Wii is outselling it's graphically more capable competition?

i'm a big boy, and i can take care of myself....so let me fucking play Super Smash Bros against people I don't know.Uhm... you already can do that. It's only if you want to play against specific people that you need to swap FC's.

[Telefrog]

I think we should all resolve ourselves to the fact that this is not what Nintendo is aiming for with the Wii. It's aimed squarely at a different audience and we need to stop complaining about a multiplayer system that wasn't really ever meant to please people used to Live or PC gaming.

[DjinniMan]

IIRC, Metroid Hunters is playable online without friends codes. I know I played some matches over Wi-Fi against people who weren't on my friends list. Tetris was the exact same way. I'd guess Mario Kart is the same.

It's a FRIENDS code, not a "must have to play online" code.

[bapenguin]

I don't see a major DS Lite-esque hardware revision being inevitable. Nintendo haven't done that for a home console since the NES 2. Or possibly the US version of the SNES, but I wouldn't really call that major.

Unless you were just talking about the version with DVD playback.

If you read the article they already talk about one that IS coming to Japan soon, and that's the Wii with the DVD playback.

[NeoSuplex]

The whole time I was reading, I kept thinking 'Good DAMN, this woman infuriates me!' Then I took a peek at her Title, and it all made sense...

I'm not really interested in what Nintendo's Marketing department has to say right now, thanks.
It must really be to early for me... My grammar is awful...

[wiredInsanity]

It is more like giving your phone number to people you want to be able to communicate with.

That's very true Kamalot, but "Aye, there's the rub". It's a random sequence of numbers. It's not a viable virtual identity. For instance, "Kamalot", "bapenquin", "wiredInsanity" are user names which can and are extensible beyond one outlet. They can carry over into web forums, Live, email signatures, pc gaming, etc. They can become recognizable and help create that sense of community (which ideally is be something that Nintendo is striving for).

Friend Codes are backwards and in a sense revisits the early days before domain name registrations where you would have to enter a website's ip address in order to visit a site. Granted you can always save that IP once you entered it, but the task of entering in those numbers is not intuitive.

[Kamalot]

That's very true Kamalot, but "Aye, there's the rub". It's a random sequence of numbers. It's not a viable virtual identity. For instance, "Kamalot", "bapenquin", "wiredInsanity" are user names which can and are extensible beyond one outlet. They can carry over into web forums, Live, email signatures, pc gaming, etc. They can become recognizable and help create that sense of community (which ideally is be something that Nintendo is striving for).

Friend Codes are backwards and in a sense revisits the early days before domain name registrations where you would have to enter a website's ip address in order to visit a site.
I still don't see how that's different than a phone number...

Once you give me a phone number, I put it in my system, give it a name, and forget the number. Same thing with friend codes.

Frankly, I'm glad that I don't have to compete for my preferred name. On Live, I'm JayVe, cause there's already someone named Kamalot. What am I supposed to do? Become Kamalot73, TheRealKamalot, Kamalot<3

Bah. Lets exchange phone numbers instead.

[destoo]

All I want is an orange wiimote.

[KingGorilla]

Wii is to online what Linux is to gaming.

[protocol_image]

I think Kamalot has made a lot of good points. But I still can't help but wish Nintendo at least gave the OPTION for users to use their online service the same way other services do. The problem is that I love Live. It is 95% perfect, in my opinion.

Eventually the reality will set in, and I will learn to love it (I hope). Just like the awkwardness of the name "Wii" has worn off....just like the disappointment in the lack of true HD support....just like the decision to not upgrade the graphics capabilities...

All of these things that once really urked me, have now settled in the muck that resides below the sweet sweet gaming layer.

[Kamalot]

I think Kamalot has made a lot of good points. But I still can't help but wish Nintendo at least gave the OPTION for users to use their online service the same way other services do. The problem is that I love Live. It is 95% perfect, in my opinion.

Eventually the reality will set in, and I will learn to love it (I hope). Just like the awkwardness of the name "Wii" has worn off....just like the disappointment in the lack of true HD support....just like the decision to not upgrade the graphics capabilities...

All of these things that once really urked me, have now settled in the muck that resides below the sweet sweet gaming layer.
Live is great. It allows you to make friends online.

Nintendo WiFi is something different. It isn't a way to meet people, it is a way to play people, or play people you already know (friends). It isn't a social network, like a bar, to meet new people.

They are different beasts. Nintendo's system is designed to appeal to people who are leery of going online and acts as a shield to protect users from encountering foul people. I wouldn't want my parents or my daughter to play on Live. Even simple games like Uno have people jerking off using their cameras. That's the LAST kind of activity Nintendo wants people to encounter on Wii.

And I believe instead of 'urked' you mean 'irked'.

[wiredInsanity]

Bah. Lets exchange phone numbers instead.

A little foward, but OK 617-861-3962.



Note: not really my number, but call it for a good time...I hope no guy actually gets this number out in the field.

[agentgray]

Mass consumer? At 4.5 million sold, hardcore and casual gamers are the mass consumers. Right now, the code is good pretty much for Wii email, which is a PITA.

Why? I can't do a freaking invite! I have to enter my friends codes and then hunt them down to add me. I've added about 20 people from EvAv, but I only have one who has added me because I have not taken the time to hound people. It's such a freaking inconvenience.

Hey, grandma, what's your friend code?

[MaiXu]

I don't give a shit about online anything, I just want to be able to jump online and get a lag-free four player match of Smash Bros. Brawl and Metroid Prime 3 whenever the hell I want. Make that happen, and I will put up with whatever bullshit Nintendo will saddle us with.

[KingGorilla]

I don't give a shit about online anything, I just want to be able to jump online and get a lag-free four player match of Smash Bros. Brawl and Metroid Prime 3 whenever the hell I want. Make that happen, and I will put up with whatever bullshit Nintendo will saddle us with.
You are why Nintendo releases clones of 20 year old games over and over again.

[Kamalot]

You are why Nintendo releases clones of 20 year old games over and over again.
Uh, cause they are good?

I just purchased Mario Kart 64 for the Virtual Console. Hot damn if that game isn't amazing amounts of fun.

I would much rather pay for something that is old and fun instead of paying (more) for something new and not-as-fun.

[MaiXu]

You are why Nintendo releases clones of 20 year old games over and over again.

That makes no goddamn sense. I haven't bought one of those stupid nostalgia games, and how is wanting them to set up the network for good simple online multi backward thinking?

Whatever, I'm sure I'm part of the problem, etc.

And god damn, that interview is worthless. Perrin Kaplan should be shot, like all other marketing mouthpieces, she's a longwinded bag of non-info.

[KingGorilla]

That fucking code is not simple. And I retract my statement, by virtue of you realizing Kaplan is a mouthpiece proves me wrong.

I was not talking about VC(that is another issue altogether), I was talking about how Mario, Zelda, and Metroid have been the same goddamn game for 20 years. Same with Konami and Castlevania.

[NeoSuplex]

I don't give a shit about online anything, I just want to be able to jump online and get a lag-free four player match of Smash Bros. Brawl and Metroid Prime 3 whenever the hell I want. Make that happen, and I will put up with whatever bullshit Nintendo will saddle us with.

My sentiments exactly.

To Kamalot: The main problem I have with friend Codes is the fact that they made a separate one for each game. The idea is very sound, but the current implementation just pisses me off.

[Kamalot]

My sentiments exactly.

To Kamalot: The main problem I have with friend Codes is the fact that they made a separate one for each game. The idea is very sound, but the current implementation just pisses me off.

I'll agree with that. I equate the friend code implementation on the DS to having a different phone number for each type of conversation. Here's my phone number when we talk about racing, here's my phone number for when we talk about FPS games...etc. And that's just dumb.

From what I understand, Wii will utilize the 'one-friend-code per system' when it finally launches, understanding that Pokemon is different, since it is really a DS game at heart.

[Sl1pstream]

You probably will be able to play that with strangers.

Its games like Animal Crossing that are FRIENDS ONLY cos you'd get idiots wandering in to random villages and slagging the player off over the chat system.

Games like Mario Kart don't have coms... and are therefore safe for strangers to play against each other. They then also give you the option to only play against friends when you get some.

But I want games like that to have voice communication. I want to be able to talk to people, otherwise there's no difference between single and multiplayer.

Can you imagine teambased shooters without voice communication? How exactly are you going to come up with a decent strategy if you can't communicate.

[Kamalot]

But I want games like that to have voice communication. I want to be able to talk to people, otherwise there's no difference between single and multiplayer.Mario Kart, Tetris, Lost Magic, Tony Hawk and Metroid are VERY different when played online than they are when played solo, even if you don't know the people you are playing with. There is something different about having a human on the other end.

Likewise, In Mreroid Prime Hunters, you can save people you meet as 'Rivals". Then you can invite rivals back to play with you again.

[xoanon]

Likewise, In Mreroid Prime Hunters, you can save people you meet as 'Rivals". Then you can invite rivals back to play with you again.

Has that ever worked for you? I haven't played MPH onlilne in a while, but the only way I was ever able to get a match was with the "random" matching. Even after I had a pretty good stable of rivals, I never got a match that way. It was just a list of players who I enjoyed going against.

[Kamalot]

Has that ever worked for you? I haven't played MPH onlilne in a while, but the only way I was ever able to get a match was with the "random" matching. Even after I had a pretty good stable of rivals, I never got a match that way. It was just a list of players who I enjoyed going against.
I've encountered rivals before. I suppose you need to find a rival that plays online often. Give it another shot. The more you play, the more rivals you can find.

My only problem is, that I suck so bad, the 'Rivals" button on everyone else's screen changes to one that says, 'Easy Pickins'.

[bitwise]

I like how PK explained all that from the example of a person that bought the system at launch. What about somebody 6 months from now that buys a Wii (or is given one as a gift). All of those features that Nintendo so craftily released over time will all be available at once. Does that mean that the system will "remain in the box"? Will the person be sooooo intimidated because the Wii has to perform a massive update upon the first connection?

It will probably ship with updated firmware. Also, people will be more likely to give it a try the more people vouch for it. You don't get the voucher effect right when a console launches. You do get it 6 months in.

And if this is supposed to be a system that is safe for kids, yet fun for adults...where are the god damned parental controls??? keep the friend codes so that kids can trade them to play with their friends, but allow me to be able to meet strangers online....i'm a big boy, and i can take care of myself....so let me fucking play Super Smash Bros against people I don't know.

The Wii has parental controls. It bugs me about them every time I do a system update. Also, you don't know how friend codes work. If I get online with Metroid in my DS, I can have it hook me up with random people even if I don't have any registered friends (if this is done, you get reduces chat privledges). If I *do* have registered friends, I can have it hook me up with them instead, and we'll have increased chat privledges with each other.

[KingGorilla]

Can the nintendo defense force calm down for a bit?

[Draconis]

Can the nintendo defense force calm down for a bit?


NOOOESS! NEVAH!!! NEEEEVVVERRR!!! GET HIM MY ZOMBIE HORDES! FEAST UPON RATIONAL MAN GORILLA FLESH!!!

~Watches idly, sipping a coke, as a stampede of zombies passes over King. Waits until the dust cloud settles~

~Pokes remains with a stick~

Hey...I got a Gorilla Costume for sale on the cheap...anyone interested?

[KingGorilla]

http://www.cslab.ntua.gr/~phib/images/doom/anim/sht2.gif
I come prepared bitches.

[Kamalot]

http://www.cslab.ntua.gr/~phib/images/doom/anim/sht2.gif
I come prepared bitches.
I do not fear your animated GIFs. :p

http://www.iplayalot.com/gifs/DoNotFall.gif

[ECM]

I was not talking about VC(that is another issue altogether), I was talking about how Mario, Zelda, and Metroid have been the same goddamn game for 20 years. Same with Konami and Castlevania.

And this is the moment I closed my browser, walked away, and vowed to never-ever take anything KingGorilla says seriously.

Can the nintendo defense force calm down for a bit?

This is delicious coming from someone that's chumming the water with flame bait...*slurp.*

[vherub]

It's an interesting read, not 100% shooting-the-shit open, but still accessible.
It seems that those of us waiting for an xbox live experience from the wii are not going to get it. Nintendo has chosen its path this generation (much as they abandonded online completely with the cube and kept with carts for the 64). I think it is the wrong decision. And the wii would greatly improve if it borrowed many of live's tricks.

Still, I remain hopeful that localizations of past games that never made it to the states will one day arrive. And that I will be able to eventually purchase a majority of the great 16-bit rpgs on the vc. I am less convinced the vc will impart additional gameplay- be it online play high scores or the like. Which is a shame.

[TDub301]

I don't have much experience with the friend codes. From what I'm gathering, you can play random people, but you can only talk to them if you have their friend code? The only problem I have with that is that if I play a random person that was fun or I'd like to keep playing or talk to, I'd like to have a way to keep in touch with them and be able to communicate with them.

They should have an option after a game is over to ask a person for his/her friend code at least. I think that would help, because after playing Halo 2 and other games on Live, I understand why Nintendo wants to filter what people say during online play and I don't blame them for trying. Hopefully they'll upgrade this system just like they're supposedly gonna make upgrades in other areas. Let us filter who we talk to, instead of filtering it for us like communists or extreme conservatives.