No Playstation 3 Hard Drive?

[Evil Avatar]

GamesIndustry.biz has an article online (http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=9265) suggesting that the Playstation 3 may ship without a hard disk.

Sony Computer Entertainment's chief technology officer Masayuki Chatani has cast doubt on the company's plans to include a hard disk unit in the PlayStation 3's launch package next spring.

Speaking in the pages of Japanese magazine Famitsu, Chatani said that a strategy had "yet to be decided", but added that he felt people would want to upgrade to higher capacity drives - the implication being that Sony would shy away from making the hard disk unit an obligatory part of the PlayStation 3 launch package.

[bradlay]

The thing has a DVR. Also, if you like this story then scroll down about half a page and it's there too.

[KarmaGhost]

lol! I just came over here to post this.

...the implication being that Sony would shy away from making the hard disk unit an obligatory part of the PlayStation 3 launch package.'cuz it would make the thing too damn expensive

[Chandler]

they'd be stupid not to include it, unless it comes with a 1gb memory stick or something.

[Deadend]

I was also hoping the PS3 could play UMDs.... Just to be cool.

[Kamalot]

Playing UMDs isn't cool. Why on earth would you want to watch a low-quality movie on your big screen? Buy the freakin DVD!

May as well dig up some VHS tapes. At least you'd have a half-decent selection.

[31 Flavas]

so specs are already being dropped, eh?

[fitbabits]

Does this mean I can now call it PlayStation 2.5?

[Abednigo]

Playing UMDs isn't cool. Why on earth would you want to watch a low-quality movie on your big screen? Buy the freakin DVD!

May as well dig up some VHS tapes. At least you'd have a half-decent selection.

Maybe to play PSP games on it, like the Game Boy Player does for the GC.

[netcraazzy]

I hope this is just a rumor and nothing more. If Sony decides not to include a harddrive in the retail package then the chances of games being written that utilize a PS3 harddrive will be greatly dimished. Perhaps they will include it with some sort of DVR bundle though?

[EL CABONG]

no hard drive means no customs sound tracks. This is by no means the most important feature for a console but I like haveing custom soundtracks and 360 has it for every game. if they don't have a harddrive how will this effect there online plans? will they have content download?

If they want to get the cost down, why don 't they put just one of those fancy graphics cards in the ps3 intsead of 2. its not like you can't get good graphics out of just one of these new cards.

[31 Flavas]

Does this mean I can now call it PlayStation 2.5?What do you bet production games are going to look nothing like the videos demonstrated at E3....

[EL CABONG]

Does this mean I can now call it PlayStation 2.5?
lol please do.

[EL CABONG]

What do you bet production games are going to look nothing like the videos demonstrated at E3....
that stuff wasn't realtime anyway so even if ps2.5 is mega powerful(which I hope it is) it won't look that good.

[Vandenh]

BTW we have this same article 2 times today :) Scroll down a bit :)

[emperordahc]

No harddrive and all prerendered videos. It's nothing like the magic they promised.

*Salutes w/ Taps being played in the background as a Monty Python looking cutout of the PS3 sinks like the Titanic*

[51|RandoM]

Until you can buy it, don't sweat it. Until then, you're just a cog in the hype machine.

[Kamalot]

This is the same story as the PS2. Over promise and under-deliver.

Does not matter though. While here at Evil Avatar we are dissapointed at this news, the majority of the world won't ever know or care. All they know is that there is a super-powered PS3 coming. It will play Madden. They'll buy it for $300 and feel like they are getting a deal not knowing all the potential that was promised, all the movies that were shown, all the specs that were listed were complete lies.

[bradlay]

Does not matter though. While here at Evil Avatar we are dissapointed at this news, the majority of the world won't ever know or care. All they know is that there is a super-powered PS3 coming. It will play Madden. They'll buy it for $300 and feel like they are getting a deal not knowing all the potential that was promised, all the movies that were shown, all the specs that were listed were complete lies.

So basically, don't be a hyper-obsessive geek and you may enjoy the quality products. Good damn advice.

[Kamalot]

So basically, don't be a hyper-obsessive geek and you may enjoy the quality products. Good damn advice.

Hee hee!

I gotta ask then, why does Sony bother promising the world? Why don't they just build a product and sell it without lying to me about how it will replace my TivO and age my video like a fine wine?

[Adam Blue]

Did anyone see the PS3 revealing? Pathetic cheering then silence. I Actually felt kind of bad.

[TrackZero]

I'm not going to judge whether their idea of wanting people to buy a drive the right size for them is correct or not, that's fine, it's their business decision.

The problem I think they're not realizing is that without having a drive by default, developers will be less likely to utilize it, in case the customer didn't bother to purchase one. You're essentially lowering the specifications that developers can work with. I believe this is a mistake since it will hurt us, the gamer, the most.

Edit: Especially considering that the Xbox 360 and Revolution will have some degree of sizeable internal storable (revolution having 512MB flash, 360 a 20GB drive). This means that mutli-platform titles cannot be designed around having some drivespace to work with, since Sony is holding everything back. The whole industry will be hurt if they do this (at least for one more generation, I think this may be a crucial mistake on their part and will cost them some market share).

[Visitor Q]

I gotta ask then, why does Sony bother promising the world? Why don't they just build a product and sell it without lying to me about how it will replace my TivO and age my video like a fine wine?

because that would make them nintendo

[EL CABONG]

this story was on gamespot then when I clicked on it said it could not find page I wonder if sony put a end to it. maybe it will have a HD? or maybe sony threaten to sue or something.

[fitbabits]

What do you bet production games are going to look nothing like the videos demonstrated at E3....

I bet a fiver that the launch line-up will be underwhelming - on all consoles, not just PS3.

[Kamalot]

I bet a fiver that the launch line-up will be underwhelming - on all consoles, not just PS3.

This is a safe bet.

Man oh man, I hope we get a new version of Fantavision!

[fitbabits]

This is a safe bet.

Man oh man, I hope we get a new version of Fantavision!

Fantavision Next Gen would rock! So long as those terribly annoying Fanta girls have bugger all to do with it!

[netcraazzy]

I bet a fiver that the launch line-up will be underwhelming - on all consoles, not just PS3.

To be honest I can't remember a launch lineup that ever really dazzled me.

[riposte101]

You guys are crazy if you think the PS3 won't have a standard HD.

[fitbabits]

To be honest I can't remember a launch lineup that ever really dazzled me.

Yep, which is exactly what I was talking about. It's nigh on impossible for hardware manufacturers to meet the expectations people have for launch line-ups.

Unless your name is Nintendo and you are releasing 'Zelda: Stupid Princess Always Getting in Trouble' or '(Really) Super Mario Revolution'. In Japan only.

[KDups]

I bet a fiver that the launch line-up will be underwhelming - on all consoles, not just PS3.

Not trying to be a Nintendo fanboy here, but if an online Smash Bros. sequel is released at Revolution's launch (as they hopefully intend) then that should be pretty big. The GC one is still the highest selling game on that system, add online and it should be cool. That, a new Miyamoto game, and a new Metroid would be a decent launch lineup.

[31 Flavas]

Yep, which is exactly what I was talking about. It's nigh on impossible for hardware manufacturers to meet the expectations people have for launch line-ups.But what is so difficult about showing video demonstrations that are halfway accurate? Or for that matter when you disclose specifications about your system, not flat out lying. Because that wouldn't be "cool", eh?

[Last of the Red Hot Mamas]

that stuff wasn't realtime anyway so even if ps2.5 is mega powerful(which I hope it is) it won't look that good.

Actually there were several real-time demonstrations at E3.

[fitbabits]

But what is so difficult about showing video demonstrations that are halfway accurate? Or for that matter when you disclose specifications about your system, not flat out lying. Because that wouldn't be "cool", eh?

Nothing difficult - it's all about the eye candy. Face it, we're all suckers for some purdy pictures!

[TheWookieeHasNoPants]

Why does Sony hate HDs so much?

[fitbabits]

Why does Sony hate HDs so much?

Because Microsoft loves them so much and has had more success with it than Sony did with their ill-fated HDD.

[petedog]

You guys are crazy if you think the PS3 won't have a standard HD.

Right, because the fact that Sony has been very noncommital about the status of a HD is a ringing endorsement of your view? All the other stuff they promised, and they never even promised that it would ship with a HD.

[fitbabits]

I can exclusively predict that the PlayStation 3 will be nothing more than a gussied-up version of the previously Japan-only PSX - minus the hard drive and a slew of other 'features'.

[Heretic Machine]

Does this mean I can now call it PlayStation 2.5?

Screw that, the PS2 appearently didn't deserve it's number either. I'm now calling the PS2 the PS 1.5, and the PS3 the PS 1.7

[Kamalot]

If it does not have a HD, how can it "age" my content on the Cell network and make my standard definition video into High Definition video?

Has Sony been blowing smoke up our collective asses?

[petedog]

If it does not have a HD, how can it "age" my content on the Cell network and make my standard definition video into High Definition video?

Has Sony been blowing smoke up our collective asses?

Apparently it can add pixels to video and create higher resolution out of thin air. Where it gets the info to do this, I dunno. Other devices have claimed to be able to "upconvert" audio and video signals, but I have yet to see those devices actually improve quality.

[Last of the Red Hot Mamas]

If it does not have a HD, how can it "age" my content on the Cell network and make my standard definition video into High Definition video?

"Users will be able to store their content in an online storage server called the 'Cell Storage.'" That right there should've been a big tipoff that Sony is leaning towards not including an HD with the PS3.

Apparently it can add pixels to video and create higher resolution out of thin air. Where it gets the info to do this, I dunno. Other devices have claimed to be able to "upconvert" audio and video signals, but I have yet to see those devices actually improve quality.

It's not really a matter of improving quality. The problem is that HD sets are incapable of displaying a standard-definition image -- they can accept a standard-definition signal but it still needs to be upconverted to HD for display. A lot of HD sets can't do the upconversion very well, so some sort of external upconversion (say, an upconverting DVD player) is often desirable. Upconversion doesn't magically "improve" a standard definition signal, but it can make it look better on an HD set.

[fitbabits]

Screw that, the PS2 appearently didn't deserve it's number either. I'm now calling the PS2 the PS 1.5, and the PS3 the PS 1.7

Excellent reasoning there!

Actually, if you go by alphabet, P would be 16 and S would be 19. Add them together and then add the number 3 (from PS3) and you get 38. Add the 3 and 8 and you get 11. Add both ones and you get 2. So strictly speaking, it's really the PlayStation 2 (with the added bonus of a fancy new Spider-Man font).

[MosBen]

What I think some people are missing is that while in recent years the online coverage of E3 has been enormous, it is at its heart an industry show. Even if us internet nerds are all savy about faked videos and such, the real targets for those videos are the guys that buy for chains like Target, Wal-Mart, and GameStop. If the videos made a few of those buyers say, "OMG, that shit is the newz, we're gonna totally buy a million of them for our stock," then the videos were successful, even if we on the internet know better.

[31 Flavas]

What I think some people are missing is that while in recent years the online coverage of E3 has been enormous, it is at its heart an industry show. Even if us internet nerds are all savy about faked videos and such, the real targets for those videos are the guys that buy for chains like Target, Wal-Mart, and GameStop. If the videos made a few of those buyers say, "OMG, that shit is the newz, we're gonna totally buy a million of them for our stock," then the videos were successful, even if we on the internet know better.Why should we allow them to get away with it, though? Shame on you for turning a blind eye to it, because they have GTA or whatever. Clue me in here flamers when has Nintendo released specs/info and then not delivered? Or when have they shown demonstration videos way out of proportion to the final product/capabilites.

[riposte101]

Right, because the fact that Sony has been very noncommital about the status of a HD is a ringing endorsement of your view? All the other stuff they promised, and they never even promised that it would ship with a HD.

There is simply no way that Sony would be stupid enough not to inlcude a standard HDD. Might as well give the X360 this generation and call it a day.

[Kamalot]

If the videos made a few of those buyers say, "OMG, that shit is the newz, we're gonna totally buy a million of them for our stock," then the videos were successful, even if we on the internet know better.

Sad that the big players in the industry are driven by lies.

In essence, the games and consoles that get the most attention are the ones with the biggest promises, not the ones that deliver what they promise?

Sounds like politics.

Isn't there any action we can take against these giant companies and their hype machines? A way to make them spout realistic expectations?

[riposte101]

Isn't there any action we can take against these giant companies and their hype machines? A way to make them spout realistic expectations?

Unfortunately there is no way for us to make them spout realistic expectations so long as people continue to fall for the bait and switch. There is however something that you can do. Just show everybody that you know that it is just hype and have them show everybody they know.

[MosBen]

31 Flavas, are you kidding? No, seriously, are you joking in that post?

My point was merely that it's not a question of us letting them "get away with it". The targets for those videos are people that don't necessarily go to game websites and almost certainly don't listen to whatever it is people like us talk about or think. These are the people that make all the big decisions about what stores get stocked with what, and wowing them with pretty videos has a huge impact in what systems/games they buy for their stores. Unless you're planning a campaign of getting in touch directly with these people and explaining all this to them, which I would actually really admire, pointing out the reality of the situation on a game website effects about nothing.

Sure, it's good for gamers to know this stuff, and it's good for us to be vigilant about uncovering the truth, but we also need to understand that fooling gamers is only the secondary benefit videos like these create.

[Kelegacy]

Screw that, the PS2 appearently didn't deserve it's number either. I'm now calling the PS2 the PS 1.5, and the PS3 the PS 1.7

Don't be a tool. Xbox 360 doesnt deserve its number either. Take the blinders off, damnit.

Not that there need be anymore mudslinging added to this inevitable Sony hatred (who the fuck cares about a console maker when the games are so good? Answer: fanboys) but if Sony really doenst have a HDD and makes me buy memory cards, I'll be swaying more towards the Xbox. Sony has made me happy over the years with great systems and awesome games...but having to buy memory cards is a thing of the past. ADD THE FUCKING HDD! Knock off this card bullshit. If they keep this up, i'm afraid hubris could be their downfall. A harddrive has basically become standard, and that's due in part to Microsoft. I could give a rat's ass about Live, but the HDD one thing that I'm grateful for in regards to their console contributions.

Memory cards that cost 20-30 dollars will turn me off so fast....i'm not in the mood to buy memory cards along with my system, a game or two, and whatever else comes non-standard. That shit adds up. The double backwards compatability is super sweet, but memory cards--ut uh.

[MosBen]

Grassroots campaigns are great, and I certainly try to keep my friends up-to-date on all the game news around, but part of the problem is that people *want* the snazziest graphics they can get. We can talk all we want about how gameplay is better, but at the end of the day people still *want* better graphics and this gives companies a big incentive to overhype their graphics capabilities. So on that end things are unlikely to change. On the other hand, buyers know what their customers want, graphics, and they're not quite as interested in investigative reading as we are here. So really, unless we find a way to reach these buyers directly I'm not sure how this is going to change.

[bobbler]

My prediction for the future:

PS3 will not come with an HD (they haven't yet claimed it will, so who knows what will happen), but to use their "Playstation World" online service you will need an HD (the HD will be like the online package) -- there will be no monthly fee. My guess is the HD will cost about the same as a game ($~50).

I will be happy to be proven wrong, but this is how I see it happening. Did anyone actually expect to get an HD and BR all in one?

The actual usefulness of HDs for games is pretty limited -- the only real use for HD is for extra stuff (patches, music, trailers, parlor games). I'm not saying I wouldn't like an HD in it, but, being realistic, the gaming experience is not much affected by HDs.

Why you people are freaking out is sort of silly. It's like the hearing 'the sky is falling' over and over again. Some of you need to relax a bit. After reading through 3 pages of this I have come to the conclusion that some of you want any excuse to hate some companies. All you do is look silly. It's like someone who intently watches someone elses actions for a possible slip up (that's not even for sure) and then starts nagging on them for it; it's pathetic.

[jacktion]

so specs are already being dropped, eh?

And it won't stop here. By the time it releases it will be half the machine they said it will be at E3. Mark my Words!

[Draft]

I don't have anything to add, except:

The Dreamcast launch line up was the shit.

[mister_slim]

Even if us internet nerds are all savy about faked videos and such, the real targets for those videos are the guys that buy for chains like Target, Wal-Mart, and GameStop.
Where are these 'savvy internet nerds', anyway? Because I see a lot of misused or blatantly wrong bits of information here as well.
I don't have anything to add, except:

The Dreamcast launch line up was the shit.
True. Didn't help Sega though.

[Kamalot]

The Dreamcast launch line up was the shit.

I can't argue with that.

Too bad a console can't succeed on great games alone but needs to have a huge marketing bullshit factor to sway the unwashed masses.

[*Legion*]

I can't argue with that.

Too bad a console can't succeed on great games alone but needs to have a huge marketing bullshit factor to sway the unwashed masses.

Except the Dreamcast lacked very many great games AFTER the great launch. Lots of shallow arcade ports (fun, but shallow) and far too few quality original games.

Of course, I got about a thousand hours of online NFL2K1 alone, so the thing was worth the money for me, no doubt. And Shenmue was great and Code Veronica was fun, but the selection gets awfully thin after you get a few games deep.

[51|RandoM]

The most valid response to most of the bitching in this thread is:

mar·ket·ing
1. The act or process of buying and selling in a market.
2. The commercial functions involved in transferring goods from producer to consumer.

You act like the stuff at E3 is abnormal, for this business, or any other, when in reality, it is the norm. Wake up already.

[riposte101]

The most valid response to most of the bitching in this thread is:

mar·ket·ing
1. The act or process of buying and selling in a market.
2. The commercial functions involved in transferring goods from producer to consumer.

You act like the stuff at E3 is abnormal, for this business, or any other, when in reality, it is the norm. Wake up already.

Yes, this is the norm and nobody is arguing that. As a consumer I just don't like being repeatedly lied to.

[if76]

The actual usefulness of HDs for games is pretty limited -- the only real use for HD is for extra stuff (patches, music, trailers, parlor games). I'm not saying I wouldn't like an HD in it, but, being realistic, the gaming experience is not much affected by HDs.


How about improved loading times?

[Heretic Machine]

Except the Dreamcast lacked very many great games AFTER the great launch. Lots of shallow arcade ports (fun, but shallow) and far too few quality original games.

Of course, I got about a thousand hours of online NFL2K1 alone, so the thing was worth the money for me, no doubt. And Shenmue was great and Code Veronica was fun, but the selection gets awfully thin after you get a few games deep.

Skies of Arcadia, Grandia II, Dead or Alive 2, Crazy Taxi, Sonic Adventure 2, Seaman, Phantasy Star Online... I've already named more good games than I own for my PS2.

[bobbler]

How about improved loading times?

Resorting to an HD for loading is still not the best way. There are games with zero load times (or 1-2 seconds at most) that don't use an HD.

HD doesn't imply better load times, it often does not help -- Some of the worst load time games are on the xbox that has an HD.

While the possibility to speed up load times is there, it's often used poorly. So I didn't bother including it in the common uses.

[mister_slim]

How about improved loading times?
A hard drive can help, but optimization, disk read speed, and low seek time (small GC disks, for example) can help as much.