ATI's SLI

[bapenguin]

ATI Announced Crossfire (http://apps.ati.com/ir/PressReleaseText.asp?compid=105421&releaseID=714857) today. Crossfire is ATI's answer to NVidia's SLI. By using 2 PCI Express video cards, you can theoretically "double" your performance. The strength of ATI's CrossFire platform is its broad game compatibility. ATI's unique multiple graphics processor implementation allows CrossFire to automatically work with every game, new or old, without requiring special game profiles or driver updates. Whether a customer is playing a game that was released last night or last year, CrossFire can automatically make the game run faster and look better.

$$$

[Skookum]

Hmm. For the price of 2 new ATI video cards and a new motherboard, I can buy both an Xbox 360 and a PS3.

[S77]

A graphics solution that will appeal to a minority of gamers... Woo hoo.

[normyk]

Mmmm... that's some good hype!
Wonder whether reality will live up to it.

[baz]

hmmm, could be time to sell a kidney, who really needs two anyway

[Klade]

SLI and I guess now Crossfire (which will forever be associated to me with loud mouths who wear bowties) are a very silly thing to put into a computer. The simple reason being that since so few gamers will actually have 2 high end video cards its unlikely that any games will be made that require it or even take full advantage of it.

If it makes games run faster then an argument could be made that it will increase the time between needed upgrades. But really the price of two new video cards cancel that out since you could always just buy 1 video card every time you need to upgrade for the same cost. (does that make sense?)

[Tia]

SLI and I guess now Crossfire (which will forever be associated to me with loud mouths who wear bowties) are a very silly thing to put into a computer. The simple reason being that since so few gamers will actually have 2 high end video cards its unlikely that any games will be made that require it or even take full advantage of it.

If it makes games run faster then an argument could be made that it will increase the time between needed upgrades. But really the price of two new video cards cancel that out since you could always just buy 1 video card every time you need to upgrade for the same cost. (does that make sense?)

and no one will ever need more than 640k ram.

[Ted Huge]

I could be mistaken, but I seem to recall reading that all the demos of Battlefield 2 have been running on dualie 6800 Ultras. You knew that ATI would get into the ring eventually (what retailer can resist the carrot of having their consumers buy TWO of their products instead of one). It just remains to be seen whether second to the market is still the sweet spot for hardcore game systems (Dreamcast < PS2).

[gleeful]

and no one will ever need more than 640k ram.

oh, come on - that's a weak analogy. it's not about needing it's about being able to afford it. ONE high-end graphics card costs as much or more as a next-gen console.

[Liquidize105]

This type of crap is why PC market's way way behind now.

Too many useless crap to buy.

[Steve_Erhardt]

..., who really needs two anyway
Are you talking about kidneys, or video cards...? ;)

[lpmiller]

The advantage of crossfire is that unlike SLI, it can work with all games, not just those with the ability built in. The other advantage is that it can work with different cards. I.E., it doesn't require the two be identical in ability.

But yeah, it suffers from the same thing as SLI in that who the hell actually needs it? It's cool and all, but sorta pointless.

[crashedout]

I see it as a useful upgade path. Buy a x800 today and in the next cycle pick one up for half the price. Get double the performance in your aging machine. Buying now? I agree save for the new consoles.

I

[Snowmit]

What is heard was that two nVidia somethings (6800s?) are actually cheaper than one nVidia super high-end something (6800 ultras?) and comparably or more powerful. So it actually made sense to buy SLI'd somethings instead of a high-end something.

You can tell that my memory is hazy at best.

[KarmaGhost]

This feature is for rich/crazy people who can go out and buy two of the most high end cards. Man, wouldn't it be great to be a gamer who has won the lottery?

[petedog]

A graphics solution that will appeal to a minority of gamers... Woo hoo.

Can't that logic be applied to every high end graphics card. Personally I refuse to pay more for a video card than I will for a console that will last me several years longer.

[Goronmon]

This feature is for rich/crazy people who can go out and buy two of the most high end cards. Man, wouldn't it be great to be a gamer who has won the lottery?
Oh its not that bad. I mean, who says you have to buy two $500+ cards in order to take advantage of the feature? Like someone said, buy some x800 variation now and then throw in another card later on.

[bapenguin]

actually, it looks like you'll need a 3rd card for this if your card isn't a "crossfire" graphics card of the X800, etc.

edit: actually, it looks like you just need to have one card be a "crossfire" edition...not 3 cards.

[Chill]

SLI/Crossfire is a pretty smart upgrade path if you already have a SLI MoBo, otherwise, its probably not the best way to go. Buying one card now, and then wait a year and buy a second for half the price.

But I agree with most that having a high-end graphic card is not necessary. I have a 9800pro that I love, and although I do plan to upgrade soon, but its more based on getting the 3.0 PS spec than overall speed. Just like console gamers will probably not go buy HDTV's with their new consoles in the fall.

[Tia]

oh, come on - that's a weak analogy. it's not about needing it's about being able to afford it. ONE high-end graphics card costs as much or more as a next-gen console.

It is a great analogy.

Right now you can't effored it, just as you couldn't efford ram extension when they came out, or couldn't effored hard drive, or couldn't effored Open GL card. Not to mention DVDroms or even CDroms.

But now everyone have them. Once SLI becomes standard prices will drop.

It is a great analogy to not say "who will ever need that" because every single person that said it in history came out sounding like a fool. Do I really need to go and look for all the qoutes for you?

[KarmaGhost]

Oh its not that bad. I mean, who says you have to buy two $500+ cards in order to take advantage of the feature? Like someone said, buy some x800 variation now and then throw in another card later on.Oh I know, i was just exaggerating.

[11thfinger]

...effored...

Thanks, reading that word 4 or 5 times has successfully melted my brain.

[netcraazzy]

I have an SLI motherboard but I'm not running an SLI video card setup. I see SLI as more of an upgrade option, if my current 6600GT is too slow down the road then I have the option of buying a 2nd one or going with a newer card. At least that's how I justified the purcahse when my motherboard died and I had to replace it. :)

[snubber]

In related news, I've found that I can increase the performance of my car by putting in TWO Ferrari engines.

[Klade]

It is a great analogy.

Right now you can't effored it, just as you couldn't efford ram extension when they came out, or couldn't effored hard drive, or couldn't effored Open GL card. Not to mention DVDroms or even CDroms.

But now everyone have them. Once SLI becomes standard prices will drop.

It is a great analogy to not say "who will ever need that" because every single person that said it in history came out sounding like a fool. Do I really need to go and look for all the qoutes for you?

No its actually not a good analogy cause the price of ram dropped as they made more of it. New video cards have been going up in price not going down. And people tend not to buy old cheap video cards when they upgrade cause old cheap video cards don't support the current gen of tech features. If you could have two old video cards right now that supported Pixel Shader 1.0 you could run pixel shader 1.0 games twice as fast (in theory). But that wouldn't help you trying to run a game with Pixel Shader 2.0 support. Where as ram essentially does the same thing though they make different kinds that do the job better.

And as for everyone in history whoever said you wouldn't need 'X' coming out a fool, well sorry but thats wrong as well. Did you ever NEED RDRAM? Just because its new doesn't mean its going to become standard especially when theres a lack of incentive for the video game industry to support it (ie: most people aren't buying it cause its damn expensive).

[kickmybum]

I don't see how this could make old games look better. If your current card already runs them at max textures/res/8x antialiasing/etc would these games just look the same?

[Grimgrock]

Thanks, reading that word 4 or 5 times has successfully melted my brain.

Did Darth Vader come down from planet Vulcan and tell you if you don't buy these two cards he'd melt your brain?

Sorry, the "melted my brain" comment always brings back this movie quote (slightly modified).

This reminds me of the "back in the day" need for a graphics card and then a separate graphics accelerator card. Eventually they merged the two but for a while they were separate. For me, I'm happy with my 9800 pro and have no plans for any hardware upgrades on my PC in the next year. There just isn't a need yet. Unless Oblivion requires it, that is. But is it worth spending $500 (?) on a new card for one $49-59 game?

[Klade]

But is it worth spending $500 (?) on a new card for one $49-59 game?

The great part about video games on the PC is that they never require the 500$ card. At most they require a midrange card. So you can get by with 100-150$ card every 2 years instead and thats what I do.

[Tia]

Thanks, reading that word 4 or 5 times has successfully melted my brain.

Are you sure there was anything to melt in there?

[Tia]

No its actually not a good analogy cause the price of ram dropped as they made more of it. New video cards have been going up in price not going down. And people tend not to buy old cheap video cards when they upgrade cause old cheap video cards don't support the current gen of tech features. If you could have two old video cards right now that supported Pixel Shader 1.0 you could run pixel shader 1.0 games twice as fast (in theory). But that wouldn't help you trying to run a game with Pixel Shader 2.0 support. Where as ram essentially does the same thing though they make different kinds that do the job better.

And as for everyone in history whoever said you wouldn't need 'X' coming out a fool, well sorry but thats wrong as well. Did you ever NEED RDRAM? Just because its new doesn't mean its going to become standard especially when theres a lack of incentive for the video game industry to support it (ie: most people aren't buying it cause its damn expensive).

*sigh*

Why are gamers so anti-whatever? Almost every new technology that comes out there will yells and shouts that "who needs it".

It will either become a standard or not, if it will, I promise you that dual cards will cost roughly the same as one card cost today.

Meh, I am to tired to go on this argument. I will just say that I am glad game developers are more open to new ideas than the gaming community. Or we will still be playing 8bit, because of no incentive to develop for anything else.

[Deadend]

I feel bad for graphics programers.

Just think about all the new headaches they have now.

ATI, Nvidia, diffrent varations, SLI, Crossfire, varations, and so on and so forth..

It'd make me want to go grab a PS3 or Xb2 and keep my head down.

[11thfinger]

Are you sure there was anything to melt in there?

Learn to spell a simple 6 letter word, and by then I might have an answer for you.

[11thfinger]

Did Darth Vader come down from planet Vulcan and tell you if you don't buy these two cards he'd melt your brain?

Sorry, the "melted my brain" comment always brings back this movie quote (slightly modified).

What the hell are you talking about? :rolleyes: I wasn't talking about star wars, star trek, or video cards - I was talking about one unfortunate fellow that couldn't master A-F-F-O-R-D, instead producing one of the most awkward misspellings i've ever had the pleasure of reading. ;)

[Goronmon]

I was talking about one unfortunate fellow that couldn't master A-F-F-O-R-D, instead producing one of the most awkward misspellings i've ever had the pleasure of reading. ;)
Damn, from your quote I thought he was trying to spell "errored"....

[Mrbunchypants]

Well not to burst anyone bubble however. next cycle your going to need daulcore VPU with SLI or Crossfire. So that a total of 4 cores. right?

[MosBen]

No time to read all four pages, so appologies if this has been mentioned, but the only way I can see SLI/Crossfire being worth your while is to buy one card when it first comes out, then wait a year and by a second of the same card when it's a lower end model, and is therefore much cheaper than the first one you bought. You'll get a, what, 40% increase or something? That's probably about the time all the games coming out are maximizing all the buzz word features of your cards, and you get a speed boost to boot. Granted, I play mostly console games these days *precisely* because of things like this (I just don't find constant upgrading fun), but if you're into that sort of thing I can see a way, albeit a very narrow way, that this is useful.

[Grimgrock]

What the hell are you talking about? :rolleyes: I wasn't talking about star wars, star trek, or video cards - I was talking about one unfortunate fellow that couldn't master A-F-F-O-R-D, instead producing one of the most awkward misspellings i've ever had the pleasure of reading. ;)


Master of the obscure movie reference. The quote (slightly modified) was from Back to the Future. I knew what you were actually talking about.

[Phades]

Master of the obscure movie reference. The quote (slightly modified) was from Back to the Future. I knew what you were actually talking about.

I caught it, and thought it was funny :)

[51|RandoM]

Heh, so many people missing the point.

ATI and NVIDIA are in a war, a features and performance war, a war that covers the entire spectrum of consumer graphics, from onboard/onchip all the way up to very expensive SLI rigs.

ATI has to have a product to compete with NVIDIA in this segment, regardless of what size the segment is, period.

One final thought, is always funny to watch the console guys come out of the woodwork comparing costs, costs of consoles that don't even exist, nor even have their pricing set, for that matter. You save your money and buy your console that doesn't exist, and play games that don't exist, and count yourself content. Meanwhile, the performance enthusiasts who want SLI, can build an Nvidia-based SLI rig today, and enjoy the benefits---regardless of how 'cost-effective' those benefits may be, they're still measurable benefits.

Keep whining about technology advances that you can't afford, maybe we'll all go back to using an abacus, since it is so cheap to manufacture...

[51|RandoM]

I feel bad for graphics programers.

Just think about all the new headaches they have now.

ATI, Nvidia, diffrent varations, SLI, Crossfire, varations, and so on and so forth..

It'd make me want to go grab a PS3 or Xb2 and keep my head down.


Pick a version of directx and program for that, not the hardware beneath it.

[mister_slim]

In related news, I've found that I can increase the performance of my car by putting in TWO Ferrari engines.
But what if you put in two Lamborghini engines?

[zombie]

They're going to 'innovate' themselves right out of business. It takes me weeks of staring at the buy button to make a new vid card purchase these days.... clicking buy twice is going to take an act of god. I just hope they build more support for kbd/mouse setups in the next gen consoles.