Different? Run Away!

[mister_slim]

Computer & Video Games (http://www.computerandvideogames.com) has an interview (http://www.computerandvideogames.com/r/?page=http://www.computerandvideogames.com/news/news_story.php(que)id=119540) with Marko Hein, the head of product analysis and online for Nintendo Europe, in which he talks about the Revolution, Gameboy Micro, Gamecube, DS and GBA SP, as well as online timing, the Rev = vaporware accusations, and the year ahead for Nintendo.

Do you think Nintendogs will cross over to a Western audience?

Marko Hein: Yes, I think so. I'll be honest. I was wrong at the time we were ready to release Pokemon in the West. I thought it would never be as successful as it was in Japan, because it's easy to perceive these games as being very Japanese. That's not right. I think the important thing to remember is that some experiences are not limited to a specific culture, and Nintendogs is one of them. On top of that, it's a whole new way of playing games. You can sit it on the desk and talk to it - I've never talked to my game before! It's pretty weird when you're on the plane and you're shouting 'SIT! SIT!'
He mentions the desire to have 90% of DS owners playing online. Seems unlikely, but probably less so than 15% of the current world population playing Xbox 360.

[jacob.armitage]

That was a great interview.

[dr_qwandry]

Katamari Damashi was another "Japanese" that was great
and I don't care what anybody says, Mr.Misqueto is the shit

[Snowmit]

He mentions the desire to have 90% of DS owners playing online. Seems unlikely, but probably less so than 15% of the current world population playing Xbox 360.

That's the INDUSTRY, not the Xbox 360. Microsoft is saying that 1 billion people should be playing games period, not Xbox games. It's a challenge to the industry as a whole. I know that hard for people to remember because we're used to everything that console evangelists being dick-size comparisons but Microsoft has weirdly veered away from that to some extent this coming generation. I don't know if it'll pay off for them but we should at least try to get it right what they are saying.

[Achilles]

Overall that was a good interview defending some of the decisions Nintendo has made. I don't believe him though when he says that gaming is declining in the US. I don't think it's true of Japan either. One of his comments touched on something I've been thinking about with the Revolution;Our strategy is to make our hardware affordable to as many people as possible. We call it 'All Access Gaming'. That applies both to playability - with the wi-fi, broadband connection and so on - but also to price.What’s interesting is that they want to appeal to as many people as possible, and imply that they’re not interested in impressing hard-core gamers. But how many non hard-core gamers have wireless broadband set up in their house? Because I’m not sure if they noticed, but that’s the only way you can go online with the Revolution. It doesn't fit with their goal to bring the common man easy to use, free on-line service.

[Rommel]

Even right now online gaming is still not a valid business model.

Meanwhile, deep in the lairs of Blizzard...
"Wow! What are we gonna do with all this money?! I guess we could burn it, deflating the value of the dollar - making the rest of our money worth more!"

Edit: You know what, fuck that. I am not playing the "Nintendo nets more" argument, because as far as I am concerned it is bullshit. Nintendo fans don't see a penny of that money, so why do they care that their favorite system makes such and such per unit sold? I care about what I get to do to bring me fun. Playing online may not be a valid business strategy (Which is incorrect) but it sure is fun. And if making a system that lacks features that are amusing to me doesn't fit into your business plan, niether do I. If anything, Big N's fanboys should be pssed that they are supposedly so profitable, but refuse to give such options.

[Heretic Machine]

Japanese Culture = American Culture. You can pretty much port things back and forth between the two, and people will like them. The only thing that really holds back Western games from succeeeding in Japan is their rabid (and ignorant) nationalism...

[KDups]

I don't believe him though when he says that gaming is declining in the US. I don't think it's true of Japan either.

He says the market is declining Japan, a stagnation in the US market. The Japanese market has been declining for the past few years now. It's true. Non-Nintendo companies have been saying it as well.

The only thing that really holds back Western games from succeeeding in Japan is their rabid (and ignorant) nationalism...

Amazing. Does this sound familiar:

Good. I don't want to sound like a nationalist or anything, but Western games > Japanese games. I'm sick of playing games that want to be anime.

Your grasp of cultural differences is astounding.

[feeble]

This sounds very exciting, what i would like to know is

can we download games with the revolution then transfer and play them on the DS?

[TrackZero]

Japanese Culture = American Culture. You can pretty much port things back and forth between the two, and people will like them. The only thing that really holds back Western games from succeeeding in Japan is their rabid (and ignorant) nationalism...

The same can be said about lots of Japanese titles. Some games are just not cross-culturally compatible. I wouldn't attack either for claims of nationalism. Don't make the mistake of thinking Japan is a bunch of masters of media any more than the U.S., especially with regards to game design.

[Varsity]

the Rev = vaporware accusations
Already? I've never seen the haters move so fast.

Nintendo fans don't see a penny of that money, so why do they care that their favorite system makes such and such per unit sold?
Perhaps, do you think, the interview and sales figures aren't aimed at them? A company releasing sales figures isn't uncommon. There might just be a reason why...

[Heretic Machine]

Amazing. Does this sound familiar:

But Japanese games a successful in America, quite often actually, and it's almost unheard of for a Western game to be successful in Japan. Which is where your little poke at me falls apart. I'm not a measure of an average American gamer.

The same can be said about lots of Japanese titles. Some games are just not cross-culturally compatible. I wouldn't attack either for claims of nationalism. Don't make the mistake of thinking Japan is a bunch of masters of media any more than the U.S., especially with regards to game design.

Some games, maybe. But the success of most Japanese RPG's, Platformers, Survival Horror titles.. etc, are usually dependant on the company giving them a commercial push, rather than how well they would appeal to an American audience. I think people overestimate the differences between Japanese and American tastes in entertainment.

[*Legion*]

I think people overestimate the differences between Japanese and American tastes in entertainment.

Seen any Japanese TV lately? :)

[Heretic Machine]

Seen any Japanese TV lately?

Just because we can't have some of the fun stuff they have because of government regulations, doesn't mean that Americans wouldn't enjoy said programing :)

[mr. murphy]

Just because we can't have some of the fun stuff they have because of government regulations, doesn't mean that Americans wouldn't enjoy said programing :)


...yeah, that's what he's saying. after you just said there was a difference between american and japanese tastes in entertainment. you're not making any sense, you're just arguing for the sake of arguing.

[Heretic Machine]

...yeah, that's what he's saying. after you just said there was a difference between american and japanese tastes in entertainment. you're not making any sense, you're just arguing for the sake of arguing.

Read my post again, moron. The FCC says we can't have a lot of the stuff that the Japanese have on television. This is not a matter of culture, but of government, which is VERY different.

By the way, you shouldn't of dropped out of school.

[Oddmaker]

Good Interview

[Dirty Harry]

Read my post again, moron. The FCC says we can't have a lot of the stuff that the Japanese have on television. This is not a matter of culture, but of government, which is VERY different.

By the way, you shouldn't of dropped out of school.
Being that i am not involved in this converstation, i'm just going to say this perigon. STFU kk? be nice puhweazzz.

[Furious Wang]

Read my post again, moron. The FCC says we can't have a lot of the stuff that the Japanese have on television. This is not a matter of culture, but of government, which is VERY different.

By the way, you shouldn't of dropped out of school.

It takes a special sort of person to use invectives on an internet gaming forum. Your use of name calling has the consequence of rendering your argument ineffective as those with actual intelligence will dismiss anything else you say.

Are you still in school yourself? Actually it doesnt matter, I've known children that can debate without resorting to calling others "stupid".

[Kelegacy]

He says the market is declining Japan, a stagnation in the US market. The Japanese market has been declining for the past few years now. It's true. Non-Nintendo companies have been saying it as well.


Quote:
The only thing that really holds back Western games from succeeeding in Japan is their rabid (and ignorant) nationalism...


Amazing. Does this sound familiar:


Quote:
Good. I don't want to sound like a nationalist or anything, but Western games > Japanese games. I'm sick of playing games that want to be anime.

Your grasp of cultural differences is astounding.

Haha, good work detective Kdups!

Also, alot of japanese stuff wouldnt be relevant here...or rather, wouldnt fit. Dating simulators? Also, scour the library of games that Japan receives every month and you'll see why alot of them would fall flat on their faces over here. A possible premise: A retired baseball-playing polar bear attempts to save the planet from alien invasion by dancing in a contest that will determine the fate of the world. That is nowhere near as weird as some of the stuff that Japanes gamers get, and though I wouldnt mind seeing more of the zany gambles coming over here, a high percentage of Western gamers would just scoff and pass over such games.

[Furious Wang]

Now, back on topic:

Do you think there is a disappointment that you haven't announced GBA 2, but rather revealed another version of the GBA?

Marko Hein: Not really. First of all, I think GameBoy Micro is a good addition to what we are currently offering as hardware. I don't think it makes sense to release too many new hardware units because all you do is reduce the life of your other hardware.

Still, it's no secret that we at Nintendo are always working on the next piece of hardware, always keeping up with technology and always implementing new ideas. But to announce GBA 2 so soon after releasing DS would be totally confusing for everyone.

Of course people were dissappointed! Yeah, don't release too many hardware units, but just release different versions of the same one? I guess it doesn't matter though, with game developers creating DS versions of practically every franchise on the SP, the DS may as well be called the GBA2. In fact, if Nintendo does release a GBA 2 and it doesn't have some super duper new tech, it may be seen as a step back from the DS since it will lack the touch screen.

But if people are being cynical they'll say that you didn't announce specs - or the revolution - because you don't have them yet. Would you refute that?

Marko Hein: For years we have been arguing successfully that it's not about the specs. Look at this generation of consoles. The PS2 has the lowest specs, but it's the most popular console. Specs aren't important. It's like in a car when you say 'I have 400 bhp'. That's great, it sounds very powerful and you can drive 200 miles per hour, but if the driving experience is not good then what difference does it make?

I'll bet they don't have specs cuz I bet they don't even have any silicon inside that little bitty box. Oh and I loved his analogy so I'll just carry it further and answer his question: Because if you've got a car that can drive 200 miles per hour you can pick up all the really smokin' hot chicks. Your Hyundai Sonata may be a comfy ride to the supermarket, but a Nissan Skyline GT-R will get you there in style and you'll look oh so pretty on the way.


Do you think the lack of a hard drive will hurt Revolution?

Marko Hein: Not necessarily. I think the combination of the on-board Flash memory, the SD cards, and the online carrier will provide enough storage..

Yeah yeah we've heard this before. No one will ever need a computer. No one will ever need more that 512 k of ram.

He also mentions Pokemon XD and I'm really suprised its taken them this long to get Pokemon onto the GCube.

And with all the mainstream press Nintendogs has been getting, I can see this being a massive seller and really push the DS into a lot of hands. Good job with that one, Nintendo.

[Rone]

Since nobody has mentioned it yet:

Mario 128 is not coming to Cube.
Disappointing, but not surprising.

[TheEpicOfTyler]

I agree with his comments about the decline of gaming in America and else where. It's all the same anymore, I haven't had the urge to play anything other then my DS in a long while, and that's only for short bursts of gaming.

[Royal Fool]

I like games.

[Kamalot]

This was a really, really good interview.

[Furious Wang]

I agree with his comments about the decline of gaming in America and else where. It's all the same anymore, I haven't had the urge to play anything other then my DS in a long while, and that's only for short bursts of gaming.

As opposed to the "glory days" of 2d console gaming? Where every game was a run n' gun jump from platform to platform? There's far more variety in games these days than the NES/SNES days.

[Nessus]

"I'll bet they don't have specs cuz I bet they don't even have any silicon inside that little bitty box."

Not like Sony and their "real time" PS3 demos... working somehow without the benefit of a graphics chip.. because it doesn't exist yet.

Of course they don't have any silicon in the thing. The system's over a year away from launch.

If Sony expects to launch next spring and even they don't have completed hardware how can you fault Nintendo for the exact same thing?

Nintendo's de-emphasis on graphics is nothing new. They said the same thing before the launch of GameCube and it turned out to be pretty a capable little console.

I don't think Rev will be as powerful as 360, but I think it'll be competent.

[Furious Wang]

Oh, I'm no fan of Sony's E3 sideshow....but at least they have tech and designs and plans and schematics and fab plants. Anyone have *any* hard knowledge on Rev's innards other than who is supposed to make them?

[Kelegacy]

I think Nintendo is reluctant to go out and buy development houses like Microsoft is, and unable (or dont want to) score deals with companies like Sony does. MS and Sony throw their monetary weight around, which I think has hurt Nintendo. Why would any developer want to develop for a Nintendo system when Microsoft will give you much more money and handjobs? While it's not really Nintendo's practice, maybe they should go out and start bagging some development houses. It's crumby business, to make your system top dog by buying all the popular game developers (like MS would/is trying to do) but it works. The world is run by greed and Nintendo has deep coffers. They need to do some deals to entice developers to their new system...or just focus on pumping out a hundred 1st party titles a year by increasing their internal development staff/groups.

I really dont want to see Nintendo get 3rd place here in the states again.

[gravey]

By the way, you shouldn't of dropped out of school.

That should read: "shouldn't have".

Just trying to help. If you're going to call someone a moron, make sure it's not going to backfire.

[Crabby]

Concerning his comments toward Nintendogs. That is one of the most annoying things I keep hearing coming from the "execs" these days. I don't wanbt to talk to my stinking Gameboy, I just want to play games. Hey guys, if you want to eventually have sex with your games, that's great, but stop assuming I do too.

[TheEpicOfTyler]

As opposed to the "glory days" of 2d console gaming? Where every game was a run n' gun jump from platform to platform? There's far more variety in games these days than the NES/SNES days.

Then gaming moved to 3d because 2d was becoming a tired market.

[Kelegacy]

That should read: "shouldn't have".

Just trying to help. If you're going to call someone a moron, make sure it's not going to backfire.

Hahaha, OUCH! Oh, the irony!

[president_fred]

I agree with his comments on market decline in the US and Japan I think however like most in the industry he ignores the potential for increasing the market in Europe, particularly the non English speaking countries as they are almost completely ignored culturally speaking with very few games geared towards them, while there is an obviously less homogenous culture in Europe it is still a market of 460+ million people which I think is nowhere near as saturated as Japan or the US. I don't think it will ever be as saturated as there is more diversity but I think there is potential for a substantial increase which could only benefit all gamers.
If Xna does all MS says it does then perhaps this will lead to this increase as faster developement times and lower costs might lead to independent national game cultures like we have in the movie industry and music etc with french games, spanish games which are all targeted at non japanese and non-anglo cultures, I think that would be cool.

[Kamalot]

I agree with his comments on market decline in the US and Japan I think however like most in the industry he ignores the potential for increasing the market in Europe...

Jim Merrick, head of NOE’s marketing, said in a recent interview on Gameindustry.biz that Nintendo has big plans for Europe. He also hints that there will be WiFi download pods for DS coming to European retailers soon. We don't have them here yet.

Reference: http://gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=9215

[Achilles]

I think Nintendo is reluctant to go out and buy development houses like Microsoft is, and unable (or dont want to) score deals with companies like Sony does. Ok well MS has only bought Rare and Bungie in the last 5 years. And Nintendo does score deals. I give you Resident Evil 0-4 a contract which they signed when the Game Cube first launched. Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles. Star Fox Assault, F Zero, the Capcom 5, and there are probably a few more that I missed.

[GrinR]

"It's pretty weird when you're on the plane and you're shouting 'SIT! SIT!'"

... or "I'M GOING TO DIE A VIRGIN!!!"

[mister_slim]

But Japanese games a successful in America, quite often actually, and it's almost unheard of for a Western game to be successful in Japan. Which is where your little poke at me falls apart. I'm not a measure of an average American gamer.
Actually, quite a few Western games have been successful in Japan. Crash, Jak, Medal of Honor, GTA. But the Japanese market tends toward smaller games with more creative gameplay, sold at lower prices, and Western games don't tend to aim at that market on the consoles.
Oh, I'm no fan of Sony's E3 sideshow....but at least they have tech and designs and plans and schematics and fab plants. Anyone have *any* hard knowledge on Rev's innards other than who is supposed to make them?
What exactly do you want to know? It plays games, it's functionally pretty similar to the GC, with the same suppliers, it has internal flash memory plus allows SD memory expansion, and there's info from IBM here. (http://www.ajc.com/search/content/auto/epaper/editions/sunday/business_24683f4d47fa40d30084.html)
Customizable chips also were important to all three game makers because each has a slightly different objective with its machines, Su said.

Microsoft is emphasizing Internet connectivity with its new high-definition Xbox 360, as well as other entertainment features such as the ability to connect to home computers to play music and show movies.

Sony's new PlayStation is expected to introduce a new high-definition DVD technology, called Blu-ray, along with all sorts of ways to connect with other Sony electronics such as MP3 music players and digital cameras.

Nintendo, meanwhile, is sticking fast to the gaming business. It was looking mainly for ways to better display graphics, speed up the processing power of its GameCube successor, and make it more user-friendly, with wireless controller connections and other features.

"All of these [companies] are looking for a way to differentiate themselves from each other," said IBM's Su. "What we offered them is sort of a bag of tricks in terms of processor technology ... that they could pull from to differentiate their products."
Concerning his comments toward Nintendogs. That is one of the most annoying things I keep hearing coming from the "execs" these days. I don't wanbt to talk to my stinking Gameboy, I just want to play games. Hey guys, if you want to eventually have sex with your games, that's great, but stop assuming I do too.
Maybe you should stop making assumptions about what kind of games other players want.

[Achilles]

But the Japanese market tends toward smaller games with more creative gameplay, sold at lower pricesLike Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest. I’ve never bought the ‘Japanese like smaller games with more creative gameplay’ assertion. Sure they have the odd quirky game, but so does the western market. If anything in recent years they seem to side toward games that are very long and have a lot of non-interactive dialogue. Here’s (http://www.the-magicbox.com/topten2.htm) a list of Japanese games that sold over 1 million copies, I don't think it supports your argument.

In other Japanese news, it looks like the DS is still outselling the PSP over there (though not by much) and they're about even in sales for the year. This is the result of Nintendogs, and it'll probably do the same for the DS in the US.

[sol740]

Gamers suck ... ouch I hurt myself.

[Hellstorm]

A retired baseball-playing polar bear attempts to save the planet from alien invasion by dancing in a contest that will determine the fate of the world.
Shit, I'd be first in line to buy this over another dark and boring FPS.

[Furious Wang]

Hahaha, OUCH! Oh, the irony!

Someone doesn't know the definition of "irony".

dictionary.com

[president_fred]

Jim Merrick, head of NOE’s marketing, said in a recent interview on Gameindustry.biz that Nintendo has big plans for Europe. He also hints that there will be WiFi download pods for DS coming to European retailers soon. We don't have them here yet.

Reference: http://gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=9215
Thanks that was a good read.

[Kamalot]

Thanks that was a good read.

Thanks! I aim to please.

[Zanzibar]

This is a shot in the dark, but one of the reasons why people might push for their game system to be #1 is because they want MORE GAMES DEVELOPED for it.

GC owners have been hosed on a regular basis because so few games are coming out. People want MORE choice, not less.

Xbox owners get prettier graphics, but the system doesn't have as many AAA titles because developers only really want to develop for one system - the #1 system.

PS2 owners get great games on a decent system.

But the fact that Nintendo's Revolution is going to come out of the box inferior to both the PS3 and the X360 might very well hurt them. People bought the GC because it was graphically comparable to the PS2 and Xbox. They thought it was just a crapshoot as to which system was going to be #1, and took a risk.

Is this an oversimplification?

[Kamalot]

It does not matter if the Revolution is the weakest system of this generation. It is the ONLY system that will have Nintendo games.

Anyone who wants to play Zelda, Metroid, F-Zero, Super Smash Bros Melee, Pokemon or others will pick up a Revolution.

Sure, it is nice to have a great selection, but I know what kind of quality to expect from Nintendo games and I'd rather have that kind of quality over any number of crummy 3rd party games any day of the week.

Don't you think an accessible controller, great price and quality, innovative titles would do more to increase the installed base of a console instead of a huge selection of uninspired, lifeless husks of game sequels?

[Achilles]

Anyone who wants to play Zelda, Metroid, F-Zero, Super Smash Bros Melee, Pokemon or others will pick up a Revolution... Don't you think an accessible controller, great price and quality, innovative titles would do more to increase the installed base of a console instead of a huge selection of uninspired, lifeless husks of game sequels? Yeah, what in the heck are people thinking buying these sequels when they could buy a completely original game like the new Zelda, Metroid, F-Zero, Super Smash Bros Melee, or Pokemon version on the Revolution. (a cheap shot I know)

[Kamalot]

Maybe it's just me, but I'd rather play a new Zelda game instead of playing yet another generic military shooter or driving simulator.

Somehow though, I suspect I'm not alone.

[mister_slim]

Like Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest. I’ve never bought the ‘Japanese like smaller games with more creative gameplay’ assertion. Sure they have the odd quirky game, but so does the western market. If anything in recent years they seem to side toward games that are very long and have a lot of non-interactive dialogue. Here’s (http://www.the-magicbox.com/topten2.htm) a list of Japanese games that sold over 1 million copies, I don't think it supports your argument.
It doesn't support your argument. A list of big budget games that sold enough to recover costs isn't going to show all the smaller Nippon Ichi games that went with sprites to keep their costs down, so they could recoup their costs with lower sales, or the Mahjong games or Pachinko simulators. I don't know any Japanese, so I can't go look up all the smaller games that never have a chance of being released outside Japan, but there are a lot of games that sell for minimal amounts of money and aim for sales of 50,000.

Think of all those 2D licensed GBA games from THQ. I would guess that sales of 100,000 copies makes them money, even with the the added expense of cartridges. And some of them are actually pretty creative. IIRC, the Lilo and Stitch game partially consists of Metal Slug-inspired shooting stages. Developers who keep their ambitions realistic and their goals achievable can do quite well without huge sales. This is how Nintendo survives, btw. Good quality, don't try to reinvent the wheel every game, and make it fun.

[Achilles]

I don't know any Japanese, so I can't go look up all the smaller games that never have a chance of being released outside Japan, but there are a lot of games that sell for minimal amounts of money and aim for sales of 50,000. But how does the sales of 50k or 100k copies for these small, creative games (though not sure how creative mahjong or pachinko games are) support your argument that “the Japanese market tends toward smaller games with more creative gameplay”. If your statement was true, that the Japanese market favored small creative games, these games would sell more than 50k copies. I guess what you were saying is that the market tends to generate more of those kinds of games, not that those games tend to be more popular than they would be in the west. I still don't buy it though, the west has plenty of games like that; Puzzle Pirates, Moonbase Commander, Hearts of Iron, Death Row, etc.

[president_fred]

Somehow though, I suspect I'm not alone.
No you're not. I will buy a Nintendo console as long as they keep releasing them because of the first party games. I do buy other consoles as well but then I have never thought of my relationship with any of my consoles as mutually exclusive (although I will admit that dreamcast came close.)

[mister_slim]

But how does the sales of 50k or 100k copies for these small, creative games (though not sure how creative mahjong or pachinko games are) support your argument that “the Japanese market tends toward smaller games with more creative gameplay”. If your statement was true, that the Japanese market favored small creative games, these games would sell more than 50k copies. I guess what you were saying is that the market tends to generate more of those kinds of games, not that those games tend to be more popular than they would be in the west. I still don't buy it though, the west has plenty of games like that; Puzzle Pirates, Moonbase Commander, Hearts of Iron, Death Row, etc.
I don't see those games at Wal-Mart or even EB. Where are their PS2 releases? Market favored doesn't mean that they sell a lot of copies, but that smaller, focused games can show up on a console and receive distribution, and make the investment back. Think of many Alien Hominids. The western market is tending more and more towards EA-style 'event' games. Put a lot of money into a flashy, lengthy game and an expensive license, advertise heavily, then hope you sell 2 million copies.

[Kelegacy]

No you're not. I will buy a Nintendo console as long as they keep releasing them because of the first party games. I do buy other consoles as well but then I have never thought of my relationship with any of my consoles as mutually exclusive (although I will admit that dreamcast came close.)

What if Nintendo became a publisher/developer only? Would that work for most people or would you rather see them with a system of their own?

Me? A system of their own. A Nintendo game developed for Sony or !egads! Microsoft....BLASPHEMY.