Kutaragi: PS3 not a Gaming Machine

[bapenguin]

Gamespot (http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/05/24/news_6126423.html) has an interesting interview with Ken Kutaragi of Sony Entertainment. In it he described the PS3 as "not a gaming machine" but a "media supercomputer."

He also takes a few shots at the XBox 360 calling it the XBox 1.5. Their ideas for the "cell storage" sound very interesting. But can they pull it off?"Users will be able to store their content in an online storage server called the 'Cell Storage.' And the Cell processor, when it's not being used, can refine the content's quality. We call it the 'aging' process. For example, users can 'age' their Standard Definition (SD) video and up-convert it to High Definition (HD) video. We have many plans [for the PS3], but this 'Cell Storage' service is something that we definitely intend to launch. By using the Cell's security feature, users will be able to rip DVDs that include copyright protection and lay it in the storage area to refine its video quality."

Sounds expensive.

[Taco]

I'm sure its been posted a thousand times (http://penny-arcade.com/view.php3?date=2005-05-23&res=l)

But I avoid most these threads.

[Borys]

I don't get the "Cell storage" idea, anyone care to explain it a little more?

Oh, and Sony calling Xbox 360 Xbox 1.5 is nothing new.

On the other hand Forbes (http://www.forbes.com/business/free_forbes/2005/0606/062.html?partner=yahoomag&referrer=) calling it Xbox 180 IS new.

[Vandenh]

>Sounds expensive.

Sounds like PS2

[bapenguin]

I don't get the "Cell storage" idea, anyone care to explain it a little more?

Oh, and Sony calling Xbox 360 Xbox 1.5 is nothing new.

On the other hand Forbes (http://www.forbes.com/business/free_forbes/2005/0606/062.html?partner=yahoomag&referrer=) calling it Xbox 180 IS new.

There's a reason they are calling it that, and it's not a negative reason like you are implying.

[Roc Ingersol]

Wow. That's just vague enough to convey absolutely no information whatsoever, yet still sound like it should.

[ackbrack]

I like how the interviewer treats Kutaragi's comments about the "The PlayStation [3] [not being] a game machine" with all due respect by ending the article with "Sony officially announced its next-generation gaming console just before the opening of last week's E3 in Los Angeles."

[Furious Wang]

This guy is bat shit looney. What he's talking about isn't even possible, much less feasible. Yeah, I'm sure that media companies are going to *love* their DVDs being ripped and sent up to some virtual storage device. Yeah, I'm sure Sony is going to support the 6 gig+ a pop bandwidth usage that will require. Yeah, I'm sure you can just add thousands of lines of resolution to SD video and expect it to look as good as HD.

And oh, its something they "definitely intend to launch". Well I definitely intended to clean out my car yesterday. To bad it didn't happen...just like this won't.

Seems to me like Sony is making up the most outlandish promises possible to try and delay consumers from buying the 360.

You smell that, Rabbit?

Yeah. Smells like fear.

[Morratut]

My bullshitometer red lined on due to this...

"It will increase the machine's capabilities as an all-purpose computer, but it won't change the types of entertainment.

What does he mean by 'but it won't changes the types of entertainment'? I like the way he goes on to say

"On the other hand, the Cell (which is said to specialize in floating point calculations in comparison to normal CPUs) was created to 'generate,' or, in other words, to produce virtual objects and phenomenons inside the computer."

It won't create a virtual object any different than the 360.It also won't create a phenomenon inside the computer any more than the 360.

Complete bullshit as always from Sony. When Sony talks like this i just hope MS will wipe the floor them :mad:

[netcraazzy]

So.. we have almost no information about what Sony's online service is going to be like but hey! We now know that you'll be able to "age" your movies like fine wine. Oh and god forbid you call your new console a game machine, no it's a "multimedia supercomputer!" I know Microsfoft and Nintendo are not innocent in this reguard either but seriously if Sony keeps this up we are going to need a bulldozer to get out from under all this bullshit.

[Furious Wang]

"Mom...?"

"Yes, son?

"I think there's a phenomenon inside my PS3!"

[Furious Wang]

I'm sure everyone's seen this already...but....

whoops, already been linked to.

[Borys]

There's a reason they are calling it that, and it's not a negative reason like you are implying.

Yeah I know - 180 turn from Xbox 1 which wasn't a finnacial success, but it's new because it wasn't submitted here...yet.

[Kelegacy]

I actually hope Sony comes through on at least half of their "bullshit" (EvAv members' favorite Sony jabs) so that finally the whining MS fans here will stop screaming "Foul, foul!"

You cant really call something bullshit until it's happened. Yes, for now it's all speculation but c'mon, be a little excited would ya? What a pessimistic bunch of goons you are.

[Furious Wang]

One can reasonably examine the various costs associated with a theorized service and determine whether that service is feasible from an objective standpoint. This is not. The bandwidth costs would be gi-fucking-normous. To even attempt a conversion from SD to HD you would need a raw data rip. That means 6+ gigs. You would then upload all that data to the Sony Server which would take a good day or two during which you couldn't play any games or anything else on your media center 3. Then, you'd have to add on another 12 gigs or so bandwidth as the PS3's Cell processor downloads and uploads all the data while its doing the converting for the aging process (a term that makes one envision the process taking days if not weeks). The resulting HD video file will be massive and if it just sits up there in Sony's virtual storage you'll have to stream it everytime you want to watch it. Add on another 100 - 1000 gigs of bandwidth, never mind the fact you're talking about STREAMING HD VIDEO - Something that would slow down a T1 connection.

That's just ridiculous. There is NO WAY THIS WILL WORK.

[kokyunage]

Furious Wang, we know already you are an xbox loyalist. No need to post 3 times within the first 15 comments. We KNOW already your opinion on it.

I have to agree with Kelegacy, wait until you actually see the product (and it's possibly failed attempts) before slamming it or calling it bullshit. Your claims of having inside Sony knowledge or magical crystal ball skills are bullshit.

Edit: Looks like you beat me to the punch, that's 4 comments. Not three.

[Paranoia]

Deja Vu...


Sony Computer Entertainment has outlined the specifications of its much-anticipated PlayStation2 (PS2), saying that it will position the speedy game machine as a platform to distribute digital content into the home via the Internet.

More than just a game machine, the PS2, which is still under development, could become a computing engine in the home for playing a broad range of games, running graphics programs, viewing motion pictures and listening to music, Sony officials said today. However, the officials downplayed the possibility that the new Sony machine could face off against the most popular computing device currently resident in homes -- the PC.

http://www.cnn.com/TECH/computing/9909/14/ps2.idg/

[kokyunage]

Did they say where this online cell storage will be? Can it be an addon to your PS3 that is just a large harddrive and that has it's own http based interface so you can reach it from the internet.

I'm sure they thought of more details regarding this than your Fanboy Wang can throw out. After all, they do have the #1 console in the market and have dominated the market for 2 generations.

[Taco]

I'm sure everyone's seen this already...but....

http://img.penny-arcade.com/2005/20050523l.jpg

Well I certainly haven't seen it ;).

[Bydo_Empire]

More than just a game machine, the PS2, which is still under development, could become a computing engine in the home for playing a broad range of games, running graphics programs, viewing motion pictures and listening to music,
It pretty much did all of that (other than graphics programs).

[themulf]

Oh noes, the MS fanboys are in full effect. Just imagine, not being able to afford something you want, oh noes.

[Snowmit]

kokyunage and Kelegacy , I want to agree with you, I really do but I wanted to believe my boyfriend when he said he'd stop cheating on me and that didn't work out either.

There comes a point where you need to stop taking everything that you're told at face value. I think that Sony has reached that point, passed it and then founded a small Williamsburg-esque town on the other side devoted to comemorating the Passing of the Point. It's a tourist attraction now. There are rides.

Which is not to say that they are alone in doing this kind of hype badness. Nintendo GC-GBA connectibity, I am looking in YOUR DIRECTION.

[Furious Wang]

Furious Wang, we know already you are an xbox loyalist. No need to post 3 times within the first 15 comments. We KNOW already your opinion on it.

I have to agree with Kelegacy, wait until you actually see the product (and it's possibly failed attempts) before slamming it or calling it bullshit. Your claims of having inside Sony knowledge or magical crystal ball skills are bullshit.

Edit: Looks like you beat me to the punch, that's 4 comments. Not three.

Kokyunage, we know already you are a Sony loyalist. No need to post about your irrational hatred of Microsoft. We already KNOW your opinion of OUR opinions.

If Sony claimed the moon was made of cheese, would you adopt a wait and see approach? Or would you call them on their lies? Because this is what they are doing - lying. Anyone with the slightest technical knowledge of computers can realize what they are talking about simply is not possible. It doesn't take a magical crystal ball to tell that there's a brick wall blocking your path when its 1 inch in front of your face. It doesn't take a Sony insider to realize that the massive bandwidth needed for a service like this prohibits it from ever being anything but a pipedream. If you weren't wearing your sony love goggles you could admit this to yourself.

If Microsoft claimed something like this I'd call them on it too. But they haven't, because I imagine they have a little more respect for their customers than Sony. But hey, if you enjoy being treated like a $10 whore with a mental handicap, then by all means.

Guess this makes it 5 posts. Guess I'm breaking the unwritten rules of the EA forums. Maybe we could add on one more: Don't be a nitwit.

[Hellstorm]

There's a reason they are calling it that, and it's not a negative reason like you are implying.

Well, outside of Gears of War, the 360 does manage to make next gen games look exactly like modern day games. I suppose that's a 180.

"He went on to say that Microsoft's new game console is more of an "Xbox 1.5" than a new console"

LOL! Giving MS a taste of the Dreamcast medicine?

[Kamalot]

Just to put things into perspective:

Statement: "The PS2 can draw 75 million polygons per second"

Reality: Gran Turismo 4 pushes about 9 million, not 75 million. To compare; Star Wars Rogue Squadron II: Rogue Leader, a GameCube launch title, was already pushing more than 14 million bump-mapped polygons.



Statement: "When broadband comes to your house, it will arrive on your TV screen and bring the Internet with it. You'll be able to do all sorts of things on the tube -- read e-mail, download movies, go shopping."

Reality: Sure you can do all this stuff on the Internet. Can you do it with your PS2?



Statement: "through these broadband networks that SCEI plans to deliver games, audio and video content from 2001. ... Sony is also building its own wireless network to support the system."

Reality: Anyone here ever downloaded a game, song or movie from their PS2? How 'bout that awesome PS2 wireless network we are all on?




Statement: "According to reports, individual units of the powerful games console can be linked up and boosted so their computing powers can be used to design and control long-range missiles or even nuclear devices.

But Sony spokeswoman Molly Smith says if Saddam Hussein wants to get hold of a stash of PlayStations, he'd have to get in line behind millions of other consumers."

Reality: This is the most brilliant piece of marketing ever created. Thank the heavens that G. W. Bush went in to Iraq to look for these PS2 clusters.



So, color me a little jade, but I don't believe anything Sony tells me any more. I'll believe it when I see it. Until then, it all sounds like marketing lies to me.



Sources:

http://archives.cnn.com/2000/TECH/computing/10/21/playstation.techno/index.html

http://archives.cnn.com/2000/TECH/computing/09/01/meet.ken.kutaragi.idg/index.html

http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_156081.html?menu=

http://archives.cnn.com/2000/TECH/computing/01/20/sony.online.idg/index.html

[Herodotus5]

Hey maybe this time, Sony will be able to do what only Dreamcast could do last time: make their own games look good. Anyone remember Bleem? Why could they make PS1 games look better through emulation then Sony could on the PS2? [/end retorical questions.
I'm just going to do what I did last time. Wait a few months after launch to let the stink from the bullshit to alleviate.

[kokyunage]

Sony Loyalist? What makes me a sony loyalist?

(1) Don't currently and have never owned a Sony console. Check.
(2) Of the 3 current generation consoles, I own an Xbox. Check.
(3) Don't belong to the Elite EA Club of Sony Haters. Check.

So, I guess it's #3, right? Because the first two would suggest otherwise.

Edit: And nothing by the above quote by Ken Kutaragi seems unreasonable:

Users will be able to store their content in an online storage server called the 'Cell Storage.'

Cell Storage being an either external or internal PS3 device that is nothing more than a large harddrive with a HTTP interface that can be accesses within the network and outside. So, you copy content to it and the PS3 in it’s spare time converts it to a copyrighted video into whatever format they support. Then you can download said movie from work, friend’s house, or wherever (depending on the copyright restrictions).

' And the Cell processor, when it's not being used, can refine the content's quality. We call it the 'aging' process. For example, users can 'age' their Standard Definition (SD) video and up-convert it to High Definition (HD) video

Cell basically converts a video to HD. Simple enough, just increase the resolution, run a few filters on it, run a couple algorithms on it to attempt to increase the visual quality. Will it be true HD from the source? No. Will it be HD from SD content that might possibly look better than standard content? Probably. Fuck, there are software packages out there now that do this.

[Taco]

How anyone can take anything Sony says seriously after the PS2 is beyond me.

And before someone says it, based on recent history in the gaming world, yes I trust MS more. Its all relative though.

[Vandenh]

Ok... i guess you fall in category 4

4) I am naive. Check

There comes a point where you need to stop taking everything that you're told at face value. I think that Sony has reached that point, passed it and then founded a small Williamsburg-esque town on the other side devoted to comemorating the Passing of the Point. It's a tourist attraction now. There are rides.

ROFL

Seriously.. Sony has a history of failed products and unrealistic promises and ideas. UMD movies??? Who thought of that?

[Roc Ingersol]

FFS, you can ignore the source: it's technically infeasible, case closed.

[yutt]

I'm mostly on the sidelines this argument, as I don't like or dislike either Sony or Microsoft (as far as gaming goes) any more than the other. It is entertaining reading people defending the over-the-top comments of the Sony rep though.

"You really will be able to age your games! You can insert an old PS1 game, for example, and it will come back with new levels, multiplayer, and jiggling bosoms!"

On the other hand, the Cell ... was created to ... produce virtual objects and phenomenons inside the computer.You mean, it was made to fucking play games? Is that what you are trying to babble? It, "Plays games." Not a difficult concept to get across if you don't shovel in heaps of acid-induced bullshit.

[Dirty Harry]

It is entertaining reading people defending the over-the-top comments of the Sony rep though.



I hardly think calling Ken Kutaragi a Lowly Pr man is suitable for the PRESIDENT OF SONY COMPUTER ENTAINMENT.

[Morratut]

I would class myself as a MS fan due to me playing my xbox the most(although playing RE4 on GC at the mo;)).

I'm not being unreasonable when i say that Sony is full of shit. They waffle on about 'emotions,phenomenons and the X360 can't entertainment but ours can blah blah' but they don't give any concrete plans or anything,its all bullshit.

I'd love for a Sony machine to come out and deliver all that but because of the PS2 fiasco and Sony giving us no real plan i don't believe a word of it.

[Furious Wang]

Users will be able to store their content in an online storage server called the 'Cell Storage.'

Cell Storage being an either external or internal PS3 device that is nothing more than a large harddrive with a HTTP interface that can be accesses within the network and outside. So, you copy content to it and the PS3 in it’s spare time converts it to a copyrighted video into whatever format they support. Then you can download said movie from work, friend’s house, or wherever (depending on the copyright restrictions).

Look at how he refers to this. He calls it a "service" making use of the PS3's "network adapter". He doesn't call it a "feature" making use of the PS3's "harddrive". A service is something you pay for. A feature is included in the price of the system.

But lets follow your argument through anyway:

The XBox 360 Harddrive will be 20 gigs. Lets be overly generous and say the PS3 will have a 100 gig harddrive. That allows for the storage of a whopping 2 HD Movies. You then download the video from your PS3 that's serving up a massive 40+ gig video file for streaming from a DSL connection wherever you want to watch it. You're still trying to stream HD video. Tech to do this requires data streams from 2Mbps (really low quality) to 10Mbps (still not the best quality). And remember, we're talking about HD Video, not some vague "HD-quality" video term. You simply cannot do what you're talking about on DSL or Cable lines.



' And the Cell processor, when it's not being used, can refine the content's quality. We call it the 'aging' process. For example, users can 'age' their Standard Definition (SD) video and up-convert it to High Definition (HD) video

Cell basically converts a video to HD. Simple enough, just increase the resolution, run a few filters on it, run a couple algorithms on it to attempt to increase the visual quality. Will it be true HD from the source? No. Will it be HD from SD content that might possibly look better than standard content? Probably. Fuck, there are software packages out there now that do this.

Yeah, and those software packages cost $600-$2000 and produce negligible quality increases. So is the net positive benefit of this "'HD from SD content that probably might possibly look better than standard content" worth it? Hardly.

So, sorry. Your argument has been shredded. Please come up with another one.

[riposte101]

Great post Kamalot.

[Orphiuchus]

So who remembers when sony started telling people that the ps2 was just so fucking powerfull that the US didn't want china to get ahold of one?

Sony's marketing department goes a little overboard sometimes. By a little I mean, "a fucking ton", and by sometimes I mean "Every fucking time they open their money-holes".

[yutt]

I hardly think calling Ken Kutaragi a Lowly Pr man is suitable for the PRESIDENT OF SONY COMPUTER ENTAINMENT.
True, he wields bullshit as a PS3 'aged' katana.

[Orphiuchus]

So lets say I have a paper due, but I would rather just go to a bar and get shitfaced...

Could I save the intro to my paper to my new ps3 and let it "age" into a A++?

[Dirty Harry]

True, he wields bullshit as a PS3 'aged' katana.
Its as sharp as it everwas, watch as sonyman chops his competitors inhalf with his acient japanese PR techniques.
(if you think im full of shit, look at the dreamcast :d)
http://www.kinoweb.de/film97/BevHillsNinja/pix/ninja3.jpg
"I DONT KNOW KARATE BUT I DO KNOW CA-RAZY"

[kokyunage]

Quote:
Lets be overly generous and say the PS3 will have a 100 gig harddrive. That allows for the storage of a whopping 2 HD Movies. You then download the video from your PS3 that's serving up a massive 40+ gig video file for streaming from a DSL connection wherever you want to watch it.


Considering I have HD copies of TV shows on my hard drive that are no more than a 1.5 gigs for an 1 hour show I’ll say your numbers of off. I’m sure they can ream some variant of Mpeg4 to compress HD content. Don’t expect this conversion to be instant; at most it’s nothing than data source to Divx compression. Especially considering they named it “Aging” implying it will take time before it’s viewable in its converted form.

And nowhere in the article or in the quote did Ken mention that this video was accessible by anything other than the PS3. It was my wild guess that they could do it to produce Media Center like features.

So, really, what you have invalided? That you can’t serve true HD content from a DSL/Cable line? I guess so. Doesn’t mean you can’t download converted HD videos from your home that your PS3 “Online Storage” feature/service holds. And the term feature and service is pretty much interchangeable when talking about “online” terms. I think Sony will definitely try to replicate Microsoft’s pay for online service. For example, to access this “service” you need to pay Sony to have online connectivity. However, you are the one storing the HD content and providing the bandwidth out of your home internet connection.


Quote:
Yeah, and those software packages cost $600-$2000 and produce negligible quality increases. So is the net positive benefit of this "'HD from SD content that probably might possibly look better than standard content" worth it? Hardly.


What does the software cost have to do with anything? Think Sony can’t develop said features for a fraction of that cost? Or maybe IBM did the work for them and it’s already on the cpu? That’s an ignorant counter point.

Quote:
So, sorry. Your argument has been shredded.


Hardly, but if you keep trying maybe you’ll make it one of these days

[Orphiuchus]

Everyone knows Sony is feeding us bullshit. I just cant understand how anyone is still saying we should wait and see.

We already waited and saw, and what we got last time was nowhere even close to what Sony promised. Sony killed the dreamcast with unethical marketing techniques, and now they are trying to do it to Microsoft. But Sony is overlooking one thing; its fucking Microsoft. You want evil? If Sony wants to play big evil corporation they better remember who the fuck they are going up against. Microsoft is so fucking big and so fucking evil in fact that my computer is crashing and I have to wrap this tirade up before it really gets going. Damnit.

Fuck Sony, and to a lesser extent on the console front(but a much larger extent on the OS front) Fuck Microsoft.

[bapenguin]

Considering I have HD copies of TV shows on my hard drive that are no more than a 1.5 gigs for an 1 hour show I’ll say your numbers of off. I’m sure they can ream some variant of Mpeg4 to compress HD content. Don’t expect this conversion to be instant; at most it’s nothing than data source to Divx compression. Especially considering they named it “Aging” implying it will take time before it’s viewable in its converted form.


HDTV standard needs at least 8mbits a second for 720p. And that's pretty shitty looking. Most likely the vids on your hard drive are XVid or DIVX.

This could be what sony utilizes, by sending you a compressed HD format DVD. of course, you still have the raw DVD you ripped, which is at least 4.7GB. Unless your PS3 compresses that, sends that to Sony, they do their upscaling, compress it again and send it back. By that time, you have something that looks nothing like HD and offers little or no visual improvement....so what's the fucking point?

[Furious Wang]

kokyunage,

My God, you are out of your mind.

What you have on your harddrive is not HD Video. DivX is not HD video. DVD is not HD video. HD-DVD is HD video. Blueray is HD video.

DVD to DivX actually gives you a loss of video quality, not the other way around. We're not talking about compressed HD video here, we're talking about true HD. If you're converting DVD to compressed HD then what's the point? You might as well keep the original DVD and save yourself the time and expense.

And what are you talking about, downloading converted HD videos from your home PS3? Do you have a T1 in your home hooked up to that PS3? If not, you're going to spend all day downloading it regardless of the connection on the receiving end. Again, what's the point? What you're going to be at a hotel and you want to download a video from your home PS3 to your laptop and spend a day doing it? Can you think of ONE scenario where what you're talking about makes any sense?

And I'm going to pay Sony money for "connectivity"? When I'm using MY harddrive and MY bandwidth and they're providing absolute zilch? Who's going to buy that? Do you think before you type this nonsense? Or are you just in such a mad rush to justify your argument in any possible way that you just post whatever comes to mind?

[netcraazzy]

I'll admit it up front, I am a bit of an Xbox fan boy but man that line about aging your SD video has me over a barrel. They could have called it something like converting, processing, improving, hell I'd even accept upgrading. But they had to put their "unique" spin on the name. Better even than the "aging" line is the one about the PS3 creating virtual objects and phenomenon inside. You and I know he's talking about 3D graphics but I mean, c'mon the way he describes it you'd think it's the f'ing 6th day inside your PS3. It's not so much that I hate Sony’s PR, more like I hate PR like this from ANY source, it just seems like a lot of it is comming from Sony right now.

[Dirty Harry]

My God, you are out of your mind.

What you have on your harddrive is not HD Video. DivX is not HD video. DVD is not HD video. HD-DVD is HD video. Blueray is HD video.

DVD to DivX actually gives you a loss of video quality, not the other way around. We're not talking about compressed HD video here, we're talking about true HD. If you're converting DVD to compressed HD then what's the point? You might as well keep the original DVD and save yourself the time and expense.

And what are you talking about, downloading converted HD videos from your home PS3? Do you have a T1 in your home hooked up to that PS3? If not, you're going to spend all day downloading it. Again, what's the point? What you're going to be at a hotel and you want to download a video from your home PS3 to your laptop and spend a day doing it? Can you think of ONE scenario where what you're talking about makes any sense?

And I'm going to pay Sony money for "connectivity"? When I'm using MY harddrive and MY bandwidth and they're providing absolute zilch? Who's going to buy that? Do you think before you type this nonsense? Or are you just in such a mad rush to justify your argument in any possible way that you just post whatever comes to mind?
arent you atleast interested in having a console system that still plays games good and stuff?

[[HATE]MyLife]

I have a DVD player that does a passable job of uprezzing an SD-DVD to an HD signal. Does it look like uncompressed HD? No. But it does look pretty close to some of the crap that passes as HD from Comcast.

[kokyunage]

And I'm going to pay Sony money for "connectivity"? When I'm using MY harddrive and MY bandwidth and they're providing absolute zilch? Who's going to buy that? Do you think before you type this nonsense? Or are you just in such a mad rush to justify your argument in any possible way that you just post whatever comes to mind?

Didn't people say the same thing about Live when it was initially announced? Sounded stupid at the time but it became a good service and product. All am I doing is trying to think of possible implementations that could have regarding this "Online Storage" service.

And i'm sorry, where did in the interview Ken state that there would be no conversions of video in their implementation of this service? I think them using "aging" and mentioning the Cells "security features" pretty blantantly announces that the videos will get converted to something that has built in digital rights management.

[Vandenh]

Live was a console version of something that already existed (for PC).

This is just plain SciFi (or PR bullshit).

[Furious Wang]

Don't compare your theoretical service to Live. Live offers matchmaking service, voice mail, text messaging, online awareness, scoreboard and stat tracking, storage and bandwidth for game updates, along with internet functionality. Your service offers what? The ability to connect from one computer to a PS3?

In the interview Ken says you can upconver SD video to HD video. He couldn't be any clearer. Both terms have exact definitions that do not relate to what you are talking about. Never mind the fact that the quality improvement from raw dvd data to some hypothetical compressed HD format would be marginal. Give it up man.

[Kelegacy]

Everyone knows Sony is feeding us bullshit. I just cant understand how anyone is still saying we should wait and see.

We already waited and saw, and what we got last time was nowhere even close to what Sony promised. Sony killed the dreamcast with unethical marketing techniques, and now they are trying to do it to Microsoft. But Sony is overlooking one thing; its fucking Microsoft. You want evil? If Sony wants to play big evil corporation they better remember who the fuck they are going up against. Microsoft is so fucking big and so fucking evil in fact that my computer is crashing and I have to wrap this tirade up before it really gets going. Damnit.

Fuck Sony, and to a lesser extent on the console front(but a much larger extent on the OS front) Fuck Microsoft.

When you listen to hype you'll always be disappointed. I dont rememeber every buying a PS2 and saying "OH GOD! Sony lied to me. This thing sucks so bad--they lied to me!!" Actually it was the complete opposite. I've had nothing but fun with the machine and i could give 2 shits about whether a PR man or company figurehead describes how many mountains the hardware will move. C'mon guys. Hell, i feel like I'm lied to everytime I try to play a PC game and i cant because Windows upgrades, service packs or some other bullshit get in my way. Make my experience better? Yeah right.

Anyway, everytime i sit down to a game i dont think about how Nintendo, Sony, or Microsoft lied to me about the hardware. If you fret about that stuff and jab your finger around blindly, rambling conspiracy theories, you need to get out more. I do get mad when I am lied to by developers though...or misled. Example: Fable. That game was fun, but didnt deliver on ALOT of things it promised.

So the big 3 can lie and spit and burn baby skin over hellish braziers, I dont give a shit. Software is all I care about. I didnt even think about the Emotion Engine after it was announced. But Sony's machine is nearly a year off. They can spin it however they want but most of us here really dont know what the hell's going on right now. For the people who cant understand why I can sit here and say "just wait and reserve judgement" it's because I'm not expecting everything they are telling me. Being skeptical is one thing, but to flat out be a jerk about it is another. The rest of you can feel free to jump the gun and call bullshit the moment any Sony guy speaks, if you want. But in the end it just makes you look like a horse's ass, knocking the pins down before they are even set up.

I'd like to see some objectivity in this place for a change.

[Kelegacy]

arent you atleast interested in having a console system that still plays games good and stuff?

No, apparently people are interested in screeching and slingling "bullshit" around like rabid monkeys. The hatemongering here is wearing thin and becoming all too predictable.

[MosBen]

kokyunage, I know you're just trying to be positive and remain un-cynical, and it's an admirable goal, but in the face of out of this world promises I think a little skepticism is warranted. And while every company is guilty of this same type of uber-hype, Sony seems to me to do it more than anyone else.

[Taco]

Only in console threads. Because consoles breed stupidity.

Am I laying it on a little too thick now?

[Orphiuchus]

So the big 3 can lie and spit and burn baby skin over hellish braziers, I dont give a shit. Software is all I care about. I didnt even think about the Emotion Engine after it was announced. But Sony's machine is nearly a year off. They can spin it however they want but most of us here really dont know what the hell's going on right now. For the people who cant understand why I can sit here and say "just wait and reserve judgement" it's because I'm not expecting everything they are telling me. Being skeptical is one thing, but to flat out be a jerk about it is another.


Skeptical is nothing, we KNOW these things they are telling us are lies. And if all you care about is software, then why are you even bothing with any of this?

[Taco]

No one wants to see success bred with a lie.

[kokyunage]

Don't compare your theoretical service to Live. Live offers matchmaking service, voice mail, text messaging, online awareness, scoreboard and stat tracking, storage and bandwidth for game updates, along with internet functionality. Your service offers what? The ability to connect from one computer to a PS3?

You don't think Sony will copy Live's service to the dot? Seems silly if they offered a service that wasn't at least comparable to a competitor.

Never mind the fact that the quality improvement from raw dvd data to some hypothetical compressed HD format would be marginal.

And marginal isn't enough advertise the feature on a PS3 box? Welcome to the real world. A company will advertise anything as a feature (and this include Sony, MS, and Nintendo).

It's almost like arguing about religion or politics. Sometimes the other side just doesn't get it and never will.

Edit:

kokyunage, I know you're just trying to be positive and remain un-cynical, and it's an admirable goal, but in the face of out of this world promises I think a little skepticism is warranted.

I was about to say I think I'm too positive and too much of an optimist for the people in this forum. It's not that I have a particular love for Sony or their products. Either way, I'm done arguing about this.

[Orphiuchus]

I dont see bullshit like this coming from nintendo OR microsoft.

[Reanimated]

Kuturagi said that PS2 would "jack you into the matrix" back in 1999.

Anything any of these Sony execs says is complete bullshit until I see it in motion.

[Kamalot]

The sad fact is that most people will hear something like this and believe it long enough to buy a PS3. Most people believe what they are told, like the PS3 'demos' were actually running in real-time and not pre-rendered.

[Herodotus5]

Well, I'm all for see what games actually come out for these systems. I for one don't care if my game consoles can pilot the space shuttle or age my movies like a fine wine. Show me actual games, and figure out the whole brew ray vs. HD-dvd thing. Thats it, thats all I care about.

[Emmaus]

"Mom...?"

"Yes, son?

"I think there's a phenomenon inside my PS3!"

Made my afternoon.

[anakin876]

Kutaragi said "online cell storage" - who has used the word "online" to refer to a local hard drive before? Anyone? Online usually means connected to via the internet, and always refers to a remote location. Otherwise I would say I have two Hard drives online right now that I can access via a web interface - but they are just my internal drives that are also accessed via the FILE SYSTEM. An external hard drive is still a local device, not some crazy "online" thing - so Kutaragi must have really mean uploading SD content and downloading HD content (including DVDs). The question of available bandwidth for this still remains. I can upload at around 70 KB\s - and it still take me more than a day to upload a full DVD. I'm not sure what definition they will use for HD - so that affects sizes and time definitions. But even if they were just immediately turning around and sending it back to me it would still take over 48 hours of maxxing out my bandwidth. Does that seem likely to anyone?

[Herodotus5]

Maybe the engineers over at Sony have finally discovered magic, and will send the hd content back to your PS3 via pixy dust. Now excuse me, I have to go slam my head into a wall for getting involved in this.

[carneconcarne]

it is funny to see how people get so defensive of a comment when people disagree. Like kokyunage here, starts off saying one very small, "this might be cool" type thing, ends up with a 7 or 8 post history adamantly defending Kutaragi's words, which will, most likely, end up being BS.

This idea does seem impractical and almost useless.

[Hellstorm]

I dont see bullshit like this coming from nintendo OR microsoft.
Nintendo is not try to be the center of your freaking living room. They just want to be the center of your gaming. That's all. No format wars. No micropayments.

[Zanzibar]

I actually hope Sony comes through on at least half of their "bullshit" (EvAv members' favorite Sony jabs) so that finally the whining MS fans here will stop screaming "Foul, foul!"

You cant really call something bullshit until it's happened. Yes, for now it's all speculation but c'mon, be a little excited would ya? What a pessimistic bunch of goons you are.

The 'bullshit' call was brought on by Sony's attempt to make it look like their PS3 E3 footage was realtime. And make no mistake about it, Sony totally sapped the 360's thunder by doing so. Only those of us who pay attention to how games are made are skeptical. The retailers and media whores bought it hook, line and sinker.

[NACIONAL]

some say that the important is games... yes They are the most important..

but when i hear the blatant stupidity that sony is shouting from their asses.. i tend to be a little angry... damn.. like ZANZIBAR said... maybe the games will be better on X360... but the media won't pay attention because they buyed the sony craptastic PR bullshit...

[Taco]

I still have the cover of the PS2 issue of Newsweek burned into my retinas. The PS2 was and is a hunk of crap. All it had going for it was the domination of the PS1, and thus a ton more developers willing to go with it. We'll see if they can rely on that again.

[Zurik]

Everyone's missing the point: Sony is not making another console, just a media center! Yeah! We can all buy Xbox 360's and Revolutions! No need for 3 systems this upcoming generation.

One more crazy thought: what if all these systems are different then what we've been hearing right now? Wouldn't that make all this arguing over speculation kind of a waste of time?

[MosBen]

Is all this arguing ever not a waste of time ;-)?

[[HATE]MyLife]

Is all this arguing ever not a waste of time ;-)?
Heck, that's why half of us do it.

But really, isn't any time not spent gaming also a waste?

[dr_wily]

i just wasted 5 minutes of my life reading this.

Thanks EA! <buddy christ thumbs up>

[Kelegacy]

MyLife']Heck, that's why half of us do it.

But really, isn't any time not spent gaming also a waste?

Jesus Christ, i just had an epiphany. Why the heck do I argue about this mundane shit? I gotta go. Poon calls.

[B_Money]

Nintendo is not try to be the center of your freaking living room. They just want to be the center of your gaming. That's all. No format wars. No micropayments.

They want us to buy a console and use it to play games? Man, what is Nintendo thinking.

[mister_slim]

i just wasted 5 minutes of my life reading this.

Quoted for truth. It's like I took a trip back in time to E3. I'm wondering where the translation of this came from, anyway. It seems pretty rough.

Anyway, Nintendo wins. At least they still care about games.

[Morratut]

I think the real reason why I get mad is that Sony are trying to overhype their console to kill the 360 just like they tried with the Dreamcast.

[Carnifex]

What you have on your harddrive is not HD Video. DivX is not HD video. DVD is not HD video. HD-DVD is HD video. Blueray is HD video.
No, HD-DVD and Blu-ray are physical storage mediums. HD video is a classification of certain types of video signals, it has nothing to do with how it's stored.

DVD to DivX actually gives you a loss of video quality, not the other way around. We're not talking about compressed HD video here, we're talking about true HD.
Because of the huge storage requirements of HD video, it will almost always be stored in a compressed manner. For HD-DVD and Blu-ray video playback there are three standards: MPEG-2, MPEG-4 AVC, and VC-1 (WMV9 based). For general HD video use there is nothing wrong with using whatever codec you like. For instance a 720p Xvid or DivX encode looks great when done properly. The display unit doesn't care how the video is stored, if it's uncompressed or not, or what codec is used. As long as it gets a proper HD signal it will be happy.

There have been several strange notions about digital video in this thread. But one thing is certain: Providing some sort of online HD video service today is impractical, and will continue to be so for many years. My guess is that Kutaragi is talking about something as simple as upscaling to HD resolution, just badly obfuscated by the usual Sony hype. We should have Sony translators :D

And for those thinking upscaling barely makes a difference, try this:

1) Scale the image to 4x the target resolution. Use a filter that preserves details and sharpness, like Lanczos4.
2) Apply a sharpening filter (and whatever else benefits perceived image quality).
3) Downscale to target resolution using a filter with a slight softening effect. A neutral Bicubic filter or similar usually works well. Use Bilinear for even more softening.

To test it you can use ffdshow. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised, if you have the hardware for it that is :)

[Achilles]

Sony’s marketing speak is brilliant, and unless you follow the industry like most of the people on these boards do and have a memory that lasts longer than 1 week, you’ll probably buy into it. They don’t need to tell the truth, they only need to mold people’s impressions of their system and their competitors. The point of a marketing lie isn’t to get people to believe it, it’s to leave them with either a positive or negative feeling about something after they’ve forgotten what the words were.“Well, outside of Gears of War, the 360 does manage to make next gen games look exactly like modern day games.” You’re either insane or you haven’t seen the stuff running. Kameo, Oblivion, Lost Odyssey and others certainly do draw a clear line between this gen and the next.

[Convict]

Well Sorry I will have to put my 2 cents in.

Do any of you remember what the first things that MS said about the first 360.

I seem to recall something about you could use it to play cpu games and a crap load of stuff it could not do.

Not to mention what about all of the OS bull crap they never did right with WINDOWS.

Ok there is my rant about MS

Now did any have problems with the PS2 with game saves. I could never get any saved game info to work from the PSX to the PS2.

I could get the games to work but not save them.

Now I seem to remember the PS2 did not really do all it was ment to.

There is my SONY rant.


Now lets be honest has anything really do anything all the bloated hype bosted.

I do not really think so. I could be wrong it has happened once I think.

So really what is being siad in all the hype on any system is " I want my system to be better than yours ( IE ...MS , Sony , Nintendo ) all we can do is see if they can deliver at least some of what they say.

I do own a PS2 and will not buy a new system until all the systems are out this year and really see what they can do after they hit the market and tested by suckers that beleive all the hype and whine about them.

Then I can make an educated choice.

[Twigz'N'Berries]

Well Sorry I will have to put my 2 cents in.

Do any of you remember what the first things that MS said about the first 360.

I seem to recall something about you could use it to play cpu games and a crap load of stuff it could not do.

Not to mention what about all of the OS bull crap they never did right with WINDOWS.

Ok there is my rant about MS

I don't remember that being said. I could be very wrong, but I just don't recall it...can u put up some links to this?

[Convict]

Sorry no I do not have any to post but I will look. It could be I might have it confused with something else. I really what to say I heard it on TECH TV before it was bought out by G4. When they were talking about it at its launch