Sony Shipped a Million PS3s to the US Market in 2006

[DangerousDaze]

Word is starting to filter through (http://kiplingerforecasts.com/apnews/XmlStoryResult.php?storyid=282597) from the CES show that Sony succeeded in shipping one million PS3s to the North American market in 2006. They later went on to say:"Are we worried about strong sales of the Wii or Xbox 360? Not really," [Sony spokesman Dave Karraker] said. "It was a great year for the industry overall. With the tide all ships rise."
Editor's Note:Thanks to Siraris for a similiar submission.

Cue furious shipped vs. sold arguments...

[Captain Awesome]

vs. returns vs. trade-ins vs. eBay auctions...

[disc]

They all end up somewhere...

[Alex]

I walked into my local Best Buy (the Mission Valley one in San Diego) and saw about eight or nine 60GB PS3's and a bunch of PSPs in the cage. Still no Wii's or DS Lites, which became about as scarce as the Wii about two weeks before Christmas, though.

[The Continental]

Meh, with all the manufacturing problems Sony was up against, shipping 1M to the U.S. before 2007 was a lofty goal. I'm glad they hit their mark and even more pleased that anyone who wants a PS3 can walk into a store and pick one up off the shelf.

[MoJoBehaumat]

Yea but I actually think the number Sony is talking about is how many they have sold to retailers, not to actual consumers

[DangerousDaze]

I love that quote "With the tide all ships rise." He could just as easily have said "With the tide all sails rise" but then there would be the argument of ship vs. sail. ;)

[RMan]

I'm glad they hit their mark and even more pleased that anyone who wants a PS3 can walk into a store and pick one up off the shelf.
Definately not yet true in my area, not that I'm interested in getting one (just check on them when I'm checcking for the console I really want).

[markster3000]

Yea but I actually think the number Sony is talking about is how many they have sold to retailers, not to actual consumers
yes, that is indeed what "shipped" means.

[sixtyfps]

Queue furious shipped vs. sold arguments...

Cue: "Cue the arguments."

...and throw in a couple of hyphens while you're at it. (shipped-vs.-sold arguments)

[Sazime]

I'm going to to collect them and build a castle. A castle of PS3 bricks. It will hold off the crabs forever.

But really, good for them. I'll be getting one at some point, I just want to wait till the killer app hits. The only reason I play the 360 is because my roommate has one. The Wii was my only recent console purchase. Oh, and my PS2 slimline last year...

[dhaelis]

Competition is good. If Sony did well, good for them. Doesn't mean that I'm actually interested in what they're selling, but good for them none the less.

[f1sh3r]

even walmart has them sitting around on the shelves here.

[DangerousDaze]

Cue: "Cue the arguments."

...and throw in a couple of hyphens while you're at it. (shipped-vs.-sold arguments)
Gah, I knew I'd rushed it (I already fixed an earlier typo). I draw the line at the hyphens though.

[sixtyfps]

Gah, I knew I'd rushed it (I already fixed an earlier typo). I draw the line at the hyphens though.

Well, what kind of arguments are we talking about?

1) Shipped
2) Vs.
3) Sold
4) Shipped Vs. Sold

I think #4 wins. Don't be afraid of Mr. Hyphen; he can be a lifelong friend if you get to know him.

[mister_slim]

A million PS3s is quite an achievements. Nice work on Sony's part. Good to see them pulling their act together a bit.

[Vanthar]

I think it's interesting that they have shipped 1 million just to the US. That's pretty good considering the supply issues. Now cue someone to explain to me why the Wii is destroying it because Nintendo only reports units 'sold' (through some magical method they have of tracking every console they sell... it's Nintendo just trust them).

[DangerousDaze]

I can't believe people are fixating on hyphens and ignoring that frankly delicious "ship vs. sail" pun. Pearls before swine, I fear. Pearls before swine. :p

[dirtbag]

"It was a great year for the industry overall. With the tide all ships rise."


I think that's the first time I've seen a Sony rep be civil when talking about the competition. Good ol' Ken Kutaragi must have a muzzle on to keep him from getting his foot any further into his mouth.

As much as I don't care for Sony at the moment, I still want to see some lively competition, and 1 million 'shipped' units is good for all of us.

[Deathbane27]

So was that 1 million units shipped to retail stores, or 1 million units shipped to warehouses?

[sixtyfps]

I can't believe people are fixating on hyphens and ignoring that frankly delicious "ship vs. sail" pun. Pearls before swine, I fear. Pearls before swine. :p

Hey, I'm just here to represent Shallow And Finicky: Bold And Daring's Mundane Counterpart. Thanks for the pep, DD; I'm sorry about the mud.

[cool8man]

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/aei/2006/11/an_interview_wi_1.html

Dean Takahashi: It’s 10 million shipped, right?

Robbie Bach: Yeah. In our case, it’s reasonably close to sold through. To make sure we’re clear, Sony does shipped from factory. We don’t. Our shipped means it has left a distribution warehouse in Memphis to a retailer. There is a big lag of six week to eight-week lag between what we called shipped and what Sony calls shipped. That’s the way we do the accounting.

So according to MS (consider the source) Sony's shipped numbers will sell through almost 2 months after MS's shipped numbers. Basically Bach is saying that Sony counts systems coming off the factory line and in transit to a warehouse in North America as shipped numbers whereas Microsoft only counts units that are on a truck to the actual retailer from the warehouse in that country. MS does not count units going from production plant to warehouse as shipped units according to this interview.

As long as we rely on the manufacturers for numbers it's always going to be an apples to oranges comparison. NPD is sadly the best source we have for actual numbers in the US and it is merely just an estimate/calculation done without the majority of actual sales data. Still at least they don't have a reason to intentionally mislead even though they've had to do serious adjustments to their data in the past.

[Johan]

How many did they ship in Japan, out of curiosity? The article doesn't mention that...

[Deathbane27]

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/aei/2006/11/an_interview_wi_1.htmlDean Takahashi: It’s 10 million shipped, right?

Robbie Bach: Yeah. In our case, it’s reasonably close to sold through. To make sure we’re clear, Sony does shipped from factory. We don’t. Our shipped means it has left a distribution warehouse in Memphis to a retailer. There is a big lag of six week to eight-week lag between what we called shipped and what Sony calls shipped. That’s the way we do the accounting.

Oh, snap! But how does a Microsoft employee know this?

[Hemalin]

So not only are we going to argue about shipped vs. sold, we can also argue about shipped vs. shipped.

[Chalex]

How many did they ship in Japan, out of curiosity? The article doesn't mention that...
Taken from another thread:

I added up the numbers, my tally comes to 502,534 PS3 units sold since launch in Japan.

Wii is still kicking its ass though. :)


And that is total SOLD NOT SHIPPED AS TRACKED BY MEDIA CREATE.

[Johan]

^^^Thanks for the info.!!!

[DangerousDaze]

So according to MS (consider the source) Sony's shipped numbers will sell through almost 2 months after MS's shipped numbers.
Sony are not going to go to the extra expense of airlifting boxes into the US only to have them sit around in warehouses in one continent or another in the leadup to Christmas. ;) It doesn't take six to eight weeks to fly to the US from China, even with the US's strict immigration rules (which I will be testing out tomorrow in New York).

[Deadend]

We still had 15 sitting at Toys R Us. No one really wants PS3s right now.

[Chalex]

Sony is talking up IPTV in their keynote right now, I wonder if Microsoft announces it for the 360 how long it would take Sony to bring a similar service to the PS3.

[LilAbner]

Took us 3 days to sell 51 PS3s at our Best Buy....and it was in the ad saying we had them in stock.

[Chalex]

Took us 3 days to sell 51 PS3s at our Best Buy....and it was in the ad saying we had them in stock.
How many 360s did you sell in that time?

[Kelegacy]

I'm a bit surprised actually. I think the only thing holding the PS3 sales back, if there is anything, is the price, not lack of games. If that price was lower, people might be more willing to part with their PS2s, or trade them in, and upgrade. But with the price so high, it's not rational. Plus, apparently some games don't look so hot with backwards compatibility. Hopefully that gets fixed.

[Jack B]

It's not over yet, but congratulations are the furthest thing from my mind.

How do we get to the point we're congratulating a company on shipping 1 million units, when in May at E3 they were predicting 2-4 million for the holidays with 6 million sold by the end of March?

It's the same with ship dates. Companies can miss a ship date 3 or 4 times, but when they finally ship in time for their "final" ship date prediction, it's celebrations all around for hitting a ship date.

Sony missed the mark horribly on shipping units. As for demand... Given that Sony's president said, "Our fans would buy the PS3 without any software", I'd expect they weren't talking about more than just 1% of the 100 million PS2 customers.... Is that what he meant by fans? 1 %???

PS3's are sitting on shelves after only a million sold. Demand is just not there at the $500 and $600 price points. I can't applaud Sony for hitting 1 million units during the holidays, or for the current demand level.

I seriously doubt in internal meetings at Sony anyone is high fiving each other. They are sweating bullets.

[Jack B]

I'm a bit surprised actually. I think the only thing holding the PS3 sales back, if there is anything, is the price, not lack of games. If that price was lower, people might be more willing to part with their PS2s, or trade them in, and upgrade. But with the price so high, it's not rational. Plus, apparently some games don't look so hot with backwards compatibility. Hopefully that gets fixed.

I'd agree. The launch games aren't great, but they're good enough. The biggest issue is the price. Microsoft has figured out price is an issue. Sony's in a very tough spot losing $300 a unit. They can't lower the price too much more until they've sold enough to get the manufacturing costs down. If they lower the price by $200 and lose $500 a unit, Microsoft would just match the drop. Imagine a 360 premium at $200 and a Core at $100... Microsoft would still only lose $125 a unit compared to a $500 a unit loss for Sony on a $400 and $500 PS3.

Microsoft is probably fine with a price war. They'd probably say, "bring it on". Sony's in a very very tough spot.

360 prices in those ranges would cut into PS2 sales. Microsoft has supposedly an attach rate of about 5x for 360's. That's 50 million games for 10 million 360's. The PS3 with it's attach rate of about 1X equals about 1 million games. Sony isn't yet making money on the games and they are losing money on the hardware...

If they get into a price war with Sony and kill the PS2 software sales, that will hurt there very profitable PS2 business... Microsoft doesn't have a profitable last gen console to worry about (ie the original Xbox), so they're fine with a price war. Not the mention Microsoft's significantly deeper pockets.

[Jack B]

Sony is talking up IPTV in their keynote right now, I wonder if Microsoft announces it for the 360 how long it would take Sony to bring a similar service to the PS3.

I think they will and could do a very good job with their music and movie libraries, but many here have said it would compete with their Blu-Ray physical media strategy.

I'm not sure which way they will go, but they do have an edge in this area, if they chose to go that route.

[rein]

Took us 3 days to sell 51 PS3s at our Best Buy....and it was in the ad saying we had them in stock.

Is this supposed to be a bad thing? I can't tell anymore. Seriously, it is hard for me to determine what would be considered an acceptable number for Sony to sell. 51 systems from one store in 3 days sounds like steady sales numbers to me.

[Chalex]

It's not over yet, but congratulations are the furthest thing from my mind.

How do we get to the point we're congratulating a company on shipping 1 million units, when in May at E3 they were predicting 2-4 million for the holidays with 6 million sold by the end of March?

It's the same with ship dates. Companies can miss a ship date 3 or 4 times, but when they finally ship in time for their "final" ship date prediction, it's celebrations all around for hitting a ship date.

Sony missed the mark horribly on shipping units. As for demand... Given that Sony's president said, "Our fans would buy the PS3 without any software", I'd expect they weren't talking about more than just 1% of the 100 million PS2 customers.... Is that what he meant by fans? 1 %???

PS3's are sitting on shelves after only a million sold. Demand is just not there at the $500 and $600 price points. I can't applaud Sony for hitting 1 million units during the holidays, or for the current demand level.

I seriously doubt in internal meetings at Sony anyone is high fiving each other. They are sweating bullets.
Sony is really still doing alright, they definitely aren't blowing the doors off, but they have managed to meet Microsofts sales for the same period a year ago, all without sales in Europe, with a product that costs $200 more. That is no small feat.

Like wise Sony is still looking to gain a large boost in their installed base in March when they finally do launch in Europe.

FYI: Sony has shipped 1 million+ systems in America alone and SOLD (according to Media Create) another 500k+ in Japan as of December 31. If Sony can double that number by March 31st (that is including the EU launch) they will be doing no worse than the 360 was at the same point in it's life.

[Gorvi]

We still had 15 sitting at Toys R Us. No one really wants PS3s right now.

Send some of those to the Tampa Bay area, would ya? I've yet to see one in a store. :(

[Jack B]

Is this supposed to be a bad thing? I can't tell anymore. Seriously, it is hard for me to determine what would be considered an acceptable number for Sony to sell. 51 systems from one store in 3 days sounds like steady sales numbers to me.

That sounds pretty good to me too. I think it's different, market by market, store by store.

[tombofsoldier]

Lol, the headline itself says all that is needed. Shipped, Microsoft shipped 10 million 360's months ago.

[Jack B]

Sony is really still doing alright, they definitely aren't blowing the doors off, but they have managed to meet Microsofts sales for the same period a year ago, all without sales in Europe, with a product that costs $200 more. That is no small feat.

Like wise Sony is still looking to gain a large boost in their installed base in March when they finally do launch in Europe.

FYI: Sony has shipped 1 million+ systems in America alone and SOLD (according to Media Create) another 500k+ in Japan as of December 31. If Sony can double that number by March 31st (that is including the EU launch) they will be doing no worse than the 360 was at the same point in it's life.

Well, Microsoft sold about 1.5m thru December last year not 1 million. Additionally, even if Sony sold 1.5 million thru January, Microsoft sold another 1.3m in Jan/Feb/March before units were sitting on shelves. Sony's shelf stock exists at 1 million units, not 3 million units. That's very telling.

Now, I will say, Microsoft didn't have the competition of 2 other next gen units, but that's water under the bridge. IF Sony had shipped by themselves one year before Nintendo and Microsoft, they'd probably would not have had units sitting on shelves in the 1st week of January with only 1 million shipped/sold.

However, woulda, coulda, shoulda doesn't pay the bills. They're not 1 year early. In fact they are 1 year late and the competition is not backing down. They are not gaining on Microsoft and they may not in the next six months. They must not just match 360 sales, they must blow them away to help Sony gain on the 50 million to 1 million software royalty lead Microsoft has this gen and to help lower their manufacturing costs.

They must dominate in 2007. As George Allen, football coach for the Redskins used to say, "The Future is Now".

[Chalex]

Well, Microsoft sold about 1.5m thru December last year not 1 million. Additionally, even if Sony sold 1.5 million thru January, Microsoft sold another 1.3m in Jan/Feb/March before units were sitting on shelves. Sony's shelf stock exists at 1 million units, not 3 million units. That's very telling.

The number you are quoting is world wide, Microsoft only shipped 900k to NA in 2005

http://forum.pcvsconsole.com/viewthread.php?tid=8498&page=2

As I stated before Sony shipped at least 1 mil to NA and sold at least 500k in Japan, thus roughly matching the 360s 2005 sellthrough.


Now, I will say, Microsoft didn't have the competition of 2 other next gen units, but that's water under the bridge. IF Sony had shipped by themselves one year before Nintendo and Microsoft, they'd probably would not have had units sitting on shelves in the 1st week of January with only 1 million shipped

However, woulda, coulda, shoulda doesn't pay the bills. They're not 1 year early. In fact they are 1 year late and the competition is not backing down. They are not gaining on Microsoft and they may not in the next six months. They must not just match 360 sales, they must blow them away to help Sony gain on the 50 million to 1 million software royalty lead Microsoft has this gen and to help lower their manufacturing costs.

They must dominate in 2007. As George Allen, football coach for the Redskins used to say, "The Future is Now".

I was simply saying that Sony is holding their own even though there product retails for nearly twice that of their main competition, and has yet to be released in the second largest market.

Sony will begin to gain marketshare SIGNIFICANTLY in march after the EU launch, along with a "relaunch" of sorts much like the 360 had.

[Thenetcase]

Cue: "Cue the arguments."

...and throw in a couple of hyphens while you're at it. (shipped-vs.-sold arguments)

Why don't you go shoot yourself you damn troll?

[Chalex]

Why don't you go shoot yourself you damn troll?
Someone is a little moody tonight.

[Coolnut]

Yeah, Sony might have shipped that many - but are they selling?

Joystiq: GameStop pulls out creative stops to move PS3s (http://www.joystiq.com/2007/01/07/gamestop-pulls-out-creative-stops-to-move-ps3s/)

Something tells that a lot of retailers are desperate enough to dump 'em.

[Your Good Twin]

I love that quote "With the tide all ships rise." He could just as easily have said "With the tide all sails rise" but then there would be the argument of ship vs. sail. ;)

Hahaha, extremely clever. You really did not get the credit you deserved for that one.

[Tyrant]

Yeah, Sony might have shipped that many - but are they selling?

Joystiq: GameStop pulls out creative stops to move PS3s (http://www.joystiq.com/2007/01/07/gamestop-pulls-out-creative-stops-to-move-ps3s/)

Something tells that a lot of retailers are desperate enough to dump 'em.

Well at least the PS3 isn't selling for $9.99!

[GrinR]

http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/2919/bouncewithit7gxyd2.gif

[Chalex]

More CES news (although it's already a little dated :o)

http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/07/iptv-on-xbox-360-is-for-real/

[Siraris]

Is this supposed to be a bad thing? I can't tell anymore. Seriously, it is hard for me to determine what would be considered an acceptable number for Sony to sell. 51 systems from one store in 3 days sounds like steady sales numbers to me.

That sounds really impressive to me, especially if it's recently. That's 51 PS3's that are going to peoples homes, and not on Ebay. That's also over $30,000 in sales on just hardware alone. I think anyone would be pleased doing that in 3 days.

[Chameleo]

hmmmm PS3 http://ps3finder.com/

VS

Wii http://wiitracker.com/

interesting links? i dunno. seems like bestbuy has lots of PS3s...

[Siraris]

Well, Microsoft sold about 1.5m thru December last year not 1 million. Additionally, even if Sony sold 1.5 million thru January, Microsoft sold another 1.3m in Jan/Feb/March before units were sitting on shelves. Sony's shelf stock exists at 1 million units, not 3 million units. That's very telling.

Now, I will say, Microsoft didn't have the competition of 2 other next gen units, but that's water under the bridge. IF Sony had shipped by themselves one year before Nintendo and Microsoft, they'd probably would not have had units sitting on shelves in the 1st week of January with only 1 million shipped/sold.

However, woulda, coulda, shoulda doesn't pay the bills. They're not 1 year early. In fact they are 1 year late and the competition is not backing down. They are not gaining on Microsoft and they may not in the next six months. They must not just match 360 sales, they must blow them away to help Sony gain on the 50 million to 1 million software royalty lead Microsoft has this gen and to help lower their manufacturing costs.

They must dominate in 2007. As George Allen, football coach for the Redskins used to say, "The Future is Now".

Where did you find these numbers?

I'm pretty sure that there were no 360 units on the shelves during that period because manufacturing had entirely shut down due to problems. I have heard many retailers say they would get 1 or 2 360's in a month, and kind of stare puzzlingly at the small quantities shipped.

On top of that, Microsoft is selling well in the US, but not as well in Europe and Japan. If Sony launches in Europe with a million, and can ship a steady amount of systems to the US and Japan between now and March, they could have over 3 millions old by that time, at which point they have sold 1/3 of what Microsoft has sold in a year, in 5 months. Considering that number will only grow for Sony worldwide, yet stay stagnant for Microsoft in Japan, and perhaps fare slightly better in Europe, I don't know why Sony needs to be that worried about trouncing the 360.

[Chameleo]

That sounds really impressive to me, especially if it's recently. That's 51 PS3's that are going to peoples homes, and not on Ebay. That's also over $30,000 in sales on just hardware alone. I think anyone would be pleased doing that in 3 days.

yeah that does sound really impressive.

but at the same time i see stuff like

The EB I manage has 8 PS3's(60 gig, that's all we get now) collecting dust in the back room right now, since Wed. We tell people that we have them...but they just want the Wii. They just don't care anymore. It's mainly too expensive or they just dont want it because they dont have a HD TV and see no point till they do. Believe it, or not, its your choice. But stores have PS3's and no Wii's. Posted at 3:46AM on Jan 7th 2007 by TickedOffEb

I stopped into one when I was at my local mall 3 days ago when I was there picking up some new clothes and I wanted to try out the demos on ps3 since I haven't bothered and I saw a sign. It said "6 PS3'S IN-STOCK! 60GB!" I asked the guy at the counter if he had any wii's in just out of curiosity and he said no everyone has been asking about them but they've had the 6 ps3's for two days. They can't get rid of them apparently. Sucks to be Sony right now.

Our local Gamestop had a sign just like that in the door last weekend. They said nobody was buying them. Then today, another Gamestop said they had 9 in the back collecting dust. It's sad.

i dunno im seeing a lot more reports of PS3s in stock than PS3s flying off the shelves.....

though who knows, people lie all the time behind the veil of anonymity.

[Chalex]

Where did you find these numbers?

I'm pretty sure that there were no 360 units on the shelves during that period because manufacturing had entirely shut down due to problems. I have heard many retailers say they would get 1 or 2 360's in a month, and kind of stare puzzlingly at the small quantities shipped.

On top of that, Microsoft is selling well in the US, but not as well in Europe and Japan. If Sony launches in Europe with a million, and can ship a steady amount of systems to the US and Japan between now and March, they could have over 3 millions old by that time, at which point they have sold 1/3 of what Microsoft has sold in a year, in 5 months. Considering that number will only grow for Sony worldwide, yet stay stagnant for Microsoft in Japan, and perhaps fare slightly better in Europe, I don't know why Sony needs to be that worried about trouncing the 360.

Links I have been using tonight:

http://forum.pcvsconsole.com/viewthread.php?tid=8498&page=2

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6155651.html?q=npd%20july

http://www.joystiq.com/2006/09/06/sony-1mln-to-1-2mln-ps3s-for-north-america-in-06/#c2045068

[Chalex]

i dunno im seeing a lot more reports of PS3s in stock than PS3s flying off the shelves.....

though who knows, people lie all the time behind the veil of anonymity.You are going to see alot of reports from places like EB/GS talking about how they have had stock sitting around because the nitwits that tend to work there can fuck up almost any sale.

I've been in game stores where the troll behind the counter would effectively talk a customer out of a sale because console (y) isn't as good as console (z).

I was in an EB where the manager talked a customer out of a PS3 sale because "there have been a dozen instances of Playstations burning down peoples houses", they then promptly tried to sell the customer a used 360 and used games.

Scumbags.

[Jack B]

Where did you find these numbers?

These numbers have been in many articles since April 2006. Here's Wikipedia's numbers (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_360).

Sales
Quarter Sales
Q4 2005 1.5 million units [71]
Q1 2006 1.7 million units [72]
Q2 2006 1.8 million units [73]
Q3 2006 0.9 million units [74]
Cumulative Estimates
Q4 2006 10 million units
Q2 2007 13-15 million units
Because of a manufacturing bottleneck for having started the massive manufacturing only 69 days before launching,[75] Microsoft was not able to supply enough systems to meet initial consumer demand in Europe or North America.[76] Many potential customers were not able to purchase a console at launch and the lack of availability led to Xbox 360 bundles selling on eBay at grossly inflated prices, with some auctions exceeding US$6,000. It was reported that 40,000 units appeared on eBay during the initial month of release, which would mean that 10% of the total supply was resold on eBay alone.[77] By year's end, Microsoft had sold 1.5 million units; including 900,000 in North America, 500,000 in Europe, and 100,000 in Japan.[78]

As of September 30, 2006, 6 million consoles have been sold.[79] By the end of 2006, Microsoft expects to sell 10 million units.[80] Forecasted cumulative estimates of 13 to 15 million units are estimated by June 30, 2007.[81]

On its release the Xbox 360 had become the fastest selling console in the Australian region. The console had the highest launch sales of any console released in the region.[82] and is the fastest to 100,000 consoles sold, a feat accomplished in just 7 months.[83] However sales have not been very good in Japan as the PlayStation 3 sold more units in its launch week than the Xbox 360 did throughout the year.[84]

During the December 4, 2006 to December 10, 2006, sales period the Xbox 360 sold 35,453 consoles in Japan, outselling the PlayStation 2 for the first time in Japan.[85] As of December 7, 2006, 3.4 million consoles have been sold in the United States.[2]

I do my research. I could post a lot of other links, but Wikipedia should do.

I'm pretty sure that there were no 360 units on the shelves during that period because manufacturing had entirely shut down due to problems. I have heard many retailers say they would get 1 or 2 360's in a month, and kind of stare puzzlingly at the small quantities shipped. [/quote]

Yep, supply was a problem. They could have sold more if production could have kept up. Demand bought up the 1st 3.2 million units worldwide. Depending on whose numbers you use, but it was 3 million units of demand before 360's sat on shelves. The difference is the PS3 has units on shelves at 1 million units. 3 million vs 1 million. Like I said earlier, if the PS3 had have come out 1 year before the Wii and the 360, then the tables would have likely been reversed, but that's water under the bridge now. Sony's in a dogfight and 9 million units behind.

On top of that, Microsoft is selling well in the US, but not as well in Europe and Japan. If Sony launches in Europe with a million, and can ship a steady amount of systems to the US and Japan between now and March, they could have over 3 millions old by that time, at which point they have sold 1/3 of what Microsoft has sold in a year, in 5 months. Considering that number will only grow for Sony worldwide, yet stay stagnant for Microsoft in Japan, and perhaps fare slightly better in Europe, I don't know why Sony needs to be that worried about trouncing the 360.

Japan had the highest per capita ownership of PS2's, but not the highest total volume. Japan is an important market because of the game developers, not the unit sales. Europe and North America are bigger markets with more growth potential as they aren't as saturated.

Sony can dominate the 360 in Japan and lose the worldwide unit sales race.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion about the end game for a 4-6 year console generation, so if you're not worried, that's fine. IMO, Sony's in trouble and behind closed doors sweating bullets.

On the other hand, the reason Sony is in this mess is because they weren't worried either. I believe they are now. You're not. That's fine. You may be right.

[Siraris]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion about the end game for a 4-6 year console generation, so if you're not worried, that's fine. IMO, Sony's in trouble and behind closed doors sweating bullets.

On the other hand, the reason Sony is in this mess is because they weren't worried either. I believe they are now. You're not. That's fine. You may be right.

The FUD from this post is a bit out of control. Sony's in trouble in regards to what? You're making these statements 1 month after the system launched with the only killer app being Resistance. I don't know how Sony could be sweating bullets a month after it's system launched, and I don't see where you are getting the information or evidence that Sony is anywhere sweating bullets.

I don't know one product on the planet that is judged to be in trouble a month after it comes out, especially a product that is associated with the biggest brand name in its field. When iPod's came out, almost no one on the planet knew what they were, and yet now they are synonymous with listening to music on the go. When DVD came out, barely anyone knew what it was, and the media and hardware was priced at exorbitantly high prices, yet it became the fastest adopted technology in history.

How it is that you can make the statement that Sony is sweating bullets, and that they are in some sort of trouble at this stage in the game is beyond me. Just because people on EvilAvatar aren't terribly keen on the PlayStation 3, doesn't mean that it's the end of the world for Sony. I think they are well aware of the fact that the price is high, and that they didn't have any big software titles at launch, and will do whatever it takes to sell every single last piece of hardware. I think that people fail to understand or appreciate that fact.

Anyways, I am not too worried, because companies don't just throw products into the fray and just stand by and watch them sink or swim. On top of that, PlayStation is well, PlayStation, it's not some new company making a foray into the market.

[TrackZero]

"Are we worried about strong sales of the Wii or Xbox 360? Not really," [Sony spokesman Dave Karraker] said. "It was a great year for the industry overall. With the tide all ships rise."

There's logic. Since the "industry" is doing good, we don't have to. ;P Go Sony, go!

[TrackZero]

The FUD from this post is a bit out of control. Sony's in trouble in regards to what? You're making these statements 1 month after the system launched with the only killer app being Resistance. I don't know how Sony could be sweating bullets a month after it's system launched, and I don't see where you are getting the information or evidence that Sony is anywhere sweating bullets.

Sinaris is right in this. While Sony's launch hasn't been stellar, it's far from a failure. I still stand by my estimation that Sony will lose market share, but will by no means drop off the map. We'll see a 3 way split this gen, IMHO.

[Wolvie]

No arguments about how many they sold from me...I am curious over how many units they sold though.

[Jack B]

The FUD from this post is a bit out of control. Sony's in trouble in regards to what? You're making these statements 1 month after the system launched with the only killer app being Resistance. I don't know how Sony could be sweating bullets a month after it's system launched, and I don't see where you are getting the information or evidence that Sony is anywhere sweating bullets.

This is my opinion, that's all. They have a PS3, that is generally agreed to cost a lot more to produce than a 360. If we use the Microsoft makes $75 a unit and Sony loses about $300, I'd say that's a $375 swing and would be considered a lot in business terms, by any CFO.

Now consider the software sales. Microsoft has a 5x attach rate. Maybe even too high as some have speculated, but that's still about 50 million games. Sony's is about 1X. That's about 1 million games. Sony makes money on hardware, but very importantly on software royalties. They're not even close to catching up at this point.

Before they shipped you could say, "they'll sell out the 1st 10 million" and who could prove you wrong? No one. Now the PS3 has shipped and although we don't know the end game, we do know one thing. Units are sitting on shelves after 1 million units. I've been in sales my entire career. I know what goes on behind closed doors. It's not good.

1. Sony's down 9 million units this gen.
2. They are down 49 million games.
3. They are saddled with a $375 differential in cost to manufacturer.
4. They are can lower price and take more losses to catch up, but are battling Microsoft who's in the top 5 in the world in market cap and number 2 in terms of cash on hand.
5. Approx. $200 of their cost is in a technology (ie Blu-Ray) that is battling HD-DVD, Digital Downloads and existing DVDs. It "might" be and albatross.
6. 60% of Sony's profits are tied up in items 1 and 2.
7. Sony is losing the exclusive edge they had last gen.
8. We finally know how many "hardcore" fans their are as demand has balanced with shipments at 1 million. That number at E3 might have been estimated at 6 million, not 1 million by most... That may be the most telling number of all.

If Sony just had manufacturing problems, I'd say, OK they can fix that..., but it's more. The PS3 is out. No more "it should do this" or "it will blow away the 360" or any number of other "if's". It is what it is.

I say, if they're not sweating, then they'll lose for sure. I believe they are more concerned that you are and they're going to bust their butt to find a way to turn it around.

They can, but they are really in a tight spot. If they don't get some killer Apps and quickly, they are in deep trouble. Consumers are very very fickle. Sony's learned how many truly hardcore fans they have. It looks like 1 million out of the 100 million PS2's sold (although many were replacements, still it was a million plus sold).

That's my take. I respect yours, but I say behind closed doors heads are rolling and there are many heated meetings and sleepless nights.

[Jack B]

Sinaris is right in this. While Sony's launch hasn't been stellar, it's far from a failure. I still stand by my estimation that Sony will lose market share, but will by no means drop off the map. We'll see a 3 way split this gen, IMHO.

I don't think it could have been worse. Sure, they haven't finished 3rd yet, (and might not still) but to go from a 100 million to 25 million to 20 million unit domination last gen and that's not counting the PS One to where they are at now is a disaster IMO.

If they had this to do over again, they couldn't have lost this gen once in 20 tries and yet here we are thinking the unthinkable. Ask Coke or Pepsi, Proctor and Gamble, Nordstom, Ford or any other manufacturer that had about 70% marketshare if they'd be willing to take less than 33% and call it anything, but a disaster.

Heads would roll in my company. Currently, I'm at Oracle. Losing 5% marketshare is a disaster. 40%? Yikes.

This could be a Harvard Business school case study for years to come. How do you sell 200 million consoles over 10 years and lose to a company who has only sold 25 million...

[Johan]

I don't think I've ever heard JackB accused of sowing FUD before. His posts are usually very reasonable and interesting.

I think he's close to the mark here. Sony isn't going to roll over and die, but there's a storm brewing, and they need to work perhaps a helluva lot harder than last generation to just compete.

Owning a dominant position in this console generation is probably out for any one company. That alone is disturbing for Sony, where 60%+ of profits come from the gaming division.

[Jack B]

I don't think I've ever heard JackB accused of sowing FUD before. His posts are usually very reasonable and interesting.

I think he's close to the mark here. Sony isn't going to roll over and die, but there's a storm brewing, and they need to work perhaps a helluva lot harder than last generation to just compete.

Owning a dominant position in this console generation is probably out for any one company. That alone is disturbing for Sony, where 60%+ of profits come from the gaming division.

Thanks, Johan. I don't participate in every Sony post. I've let most of them go for the past couple of months. Like everyone else here, we've all been wrong before, but I'm supporting my take (ie a take is an opinion) with facts.

I could be wrong here. I think the last real unknown about the launch was when the demand would balance supply. It took 3 million for the 360. The Wii still hasn't balanced. The PS3 has balanced at 1 million. That's a really low number.

Go back to E3 of 2006 and read the posts here and elsewhere. Almost everyone was agreeing on one fact. Sony would sell as many PS3's as they could manufacturer through the holidays and well into Spring.

I'd like to find people predicting the PS3 would be on shelves at retail with only 1 million sold/shipped. People would have laughed at anyone making such a crazy claim. eBay sales were supposed to be the norm for months.

That's the barometer for what's really happening and the most important piece of info, IMO.

[gojira]

So was that 1 million units shipped to retail stores, or 1 million units shipped to warehouses?

I'm thinking the got them on the ship just before Dec. 31. Ship's still in the harbor in Japan, but what the heck, the boxes are shipped.

There are no PS3s to be found 'round these parts. I'm surprised to hear that there are some available for retail purchase in other parts of the country, but what the heck. I've been looking for a DS Lite since Christmas, now THERE'S a rare item. Anyone know when more of these will hit the US?

[Banacek]

I was going to post something here, but instead I'm going to go back to playing Zelda. Have fun arguing! ;)

[Jack B]

The number you are quoting is world wide, Microsoft only shipped 900k to NA in 2005

http://forum.pcvsconsole.com/viewthread.php?tid=8498&page=2

As I stated before Sony shipped at least 1 mil to NA and sold at least 500k in Japan, thus roughly matching the 360s 2005 sellthrough.

True, the Sony number in the US is comparable to the Microsoft number and that is important to note.

The difference I see, is that Sony's supply is already ahead of demand. Units are sitting on US shelves (and Japan). Way to early in the US at a million. Same in Japan, from what I'm hearing. The Wii is beating the PS3 in Japan. These are bad signs.

I was simply saying that Sony is holding their own even though there product retails for nearly twice that of their main competition, and has yet to be released in the second largest market.

Sony will begin to gain marketshare SIGNIFICANTLY in march after the EU launch, along with a "relaunch" of sorts much like the 360 had.

I think that's a fair statement. Sony owns Europe as well as Japan. Eurogamer readers still seem very pro Sony, so maybe the delayed launch won't hurt them as much as expected. Sony could still do really we in Europe.

The part about the more expensive unit isn't the advantage it should be. Normally it's expected if one unit sells more, it generates more profit, but will sell fewer units. In the PS3 case it's a bit bizarre, because it loses $300 whereas the 360 makes $75 even though the 360 sells for less at retail. That's always a good position to be in... That's a $375 swing for each unit sold in Microsoft's favor. It's almost a bad thing to sell units in the short term, but you need consoles sold to make royalties, but with the early tie ratio of 1X, they aren't making $300 back on software.

Tough spot, even if the loss isn't $300 and something less, it's a tough spot.

I think Europe could save the day for Sony. They'll need it. Microsoft shipped about 800,000 units a month for the 1st 12 months. If they repeat that performance, that will be 20 million by next January. If Sony doubles Microsoft and ships 1.6 million units a month (or 400,000 a week), then they could catch up by the end of 2007.

I don't see it. Watch for the NPD numbers Jan thru Dec. I the most probably scenario is they'll be fairly close throughout the year. Sony is on the tipping point. It could go either way. It's more likely to me, Microsoft lowers the price, adds on features, buys up software companies and exclusives with their cash and Sony gets all "high end' to save face (ie "It's more than a game machine").

[Major Dan]

My local Wal-Mart had three Wiis the other day, Friday, no PS3s though. I'll be damned they made their goal, suprise, surprise. But it seems they aren't selling very well.

[easi]

shipped != sold

[Ix Quantum xI]

Finally some good news for Sony.

Everyone is also missing one thing, Sony can now claim that they have at least a million blu ray players shipped / sold. That is a pretty big bargaining chip to have especially when try to convince movie studios to come over to the blu ray camp. Plus that chip is only going to get bigger and bigger as time goes by as more and more PS3s are sold.

Bear in mind I have no data on stand alone player sales for either format, couldn’t find any :mad: , but I don’t think I’m going too far out on a limb when I think that the number of stand alone players doesn’t total a million for either format. Ironically Sony may be saved by shoehorning blu ray into the PS3 instead of being destroyed by it.

[DaXIthR]

I don't believe a damn thing a Sony exec says. I'll wait for NPD Funworld and MediaCreate for my numbers. Thanks for trying, though.

If a Sony exec says, 'sold', he means 'shipped'.
If he says 1 million, he means '800K'.

I can't remember the last time Sony's spin has been closer to the truth than total fabrication. Rhetoric aside, they spew shit like a White House Press Secy, and I'm not going believe anything they say until they can earn some credibility back.

[Rafer]

You know, the distribution of PS3s is kinda funny, there are Best Buys in Missouri with supplies to last them several weeks but they're sold out in some major cities like L.A. (joystiq (http://www.joystiq.com/2007/01/06/ps3-available-on-bestbuy-com-still/) ), and I still haven't seen any around Toronto (and as of right now Canadian online retailers are sold out (http://consolewatch.com/)).

And I don't think units being available is a negative thing, being sold out means something was underpriced. Had the 360 launched at, say $500 (when there was a lengthly shortage) then dropped down to $350 this summer I think Microsoft would have sold more units and had more overall revenue than selling at $400 for over a year. Next console launch I hope companies will charge whatever the market will bear the at first then lower the price after Christmas instead of having this stupidity of underpriced launches with everything being scooped up and resold on eBay.

Personally, I think Nintendo is going to own this generation but I still think Sony can do well and that they are a strong first party developer (especially with exclusive games from Insomniac, Factor 5, Level 5, Naughty Dog, Digital Polyphony, Ninja Theory and maybe whatever David Jaffe or Fumito Ueda are up to).

[oldjadedgamer]

I think it's interesting that they have shipped 1 million just to the US. That's pretty good considering the supply issues. Now cue someone to explain to me why the Wii is destroying it because Nintendo only reports units 'sold' (through some magical method they have of tracking every console they sell... it's Nintendo just trust them).

I think Nintendo only tracks systems that have been actually sold to consumers since they keep track of every system that has it's barcode/serial number scanned at retail. That information goes straight to Nintendo and only happens when the customer is at the cash register.

It's actually pretty creepy. Call Nintendo and give them your system serial number. They will tell you the date you bought it and the store name and location. Microsoft and Sony don't keep this info.

Hence, that is why I think Nintendo only counts actually consumer data in their sales charts.

[wyeast]

I'm surprised to hear that there are some available for retail purchase in other parts of the country, but what the heck. I've been looking for a DS Lite since Christmas, now THERE'S a rare item. Anyone know when more of these will hit the US?
According to iTrackr (http://www.itrackr.com) PS3's are running about 75% availability nationwide. Wii's are at 3%. 360's at 80%. I read the Joystiq thing about PS3's and Los Angeles - which struck me funny because iTrackr reports them at most Targets and Circuit City's, and I know a friend has seen them around Long Beach.

DS Lites are at 4% - what area are you in?

Major Dan - They're reporting PS3's at Targets on Craig Rd and Nellis Blvd, as well as both Circuit City's. They also report a bunch of Gamestop locations, but they also say that the GS info is often lagged/incorrect.

[Neosho]

Me and my friends were running around Santa Cruz yesterday...there was 1 PS3 in at Gamestop, No wiis, no DS's. 3 PS3's (60 gigs, all of them), in at Gamecrazy. No Wii's, no DS's, nothing. 360's available at both.

I think the most telling thing, as Jack's excellent posts have been saying, is that supply has caught up to demand in many areas after only 1 million sold. Even if they're selling out elsewhere, the lack of an e-bay market, as well as the number of consoles sitting on shelves here, correlated with the reports of consoles on shelves elsewhere, points in the direction of supply surpassing demand, quickly. That is NOT GOOD (TM).

[Kamalot]

Yea but I actually think the number Sony is talking about is how many they have sold to retailers, not to actual consumers
Sony's distinction is telling, they consider the retailer to be their customer, not the end user.

[51|RandoM]

So was that 1 million units shipped to retail stores, or 1 million units shipped to warehouses?

Newsflash: It doesn't matter. Sony shipped a million consoles before the end of the year. A feat most of you believed impossible up till a couple weeks ago. Do yourself a favor, acknowledge it and move on.

They're not trying to compare their shipped figures vs. somebody else's sold figures, so the shipped vs. sold debate is pointless.

Anectdotal data has Sony shipping quite a bit more product at the moment than Nintendo is.

Always amazing how when Sony has production issues and can't meet demand, it is a problem... now that they've cleared up the production issues and are meeting demand(in some/many areas)it is still a problem.

[easi]

The problem is that no fucker is buying them.

[Gorvi]

The problem is that no fucker is buying them.

I know! I've seen the Best Buy people making forts out of them, playing hide and seek in little mazes they've built, it's nuts. Literally nobody wants the things other than to build things with the boxes! Silly Sony, didn't they learn that nobody wants their consoles after the abyssmal failures that were the PSOne and PS2?

[51|RandoM]

People are buying them. What they aren't doing is buying them faster than Sony is shipping them. Which is a good thing, if you want one, and a bad thing if you want fuel for the sony effigy bonfire.

[fitbabits]

Would this be a good place to point out that the Best Buy I'm based in has a sign at the front of the door which states the following:

"We have loads of PS3s in stock. Loads. Please ask any associate."

I'll try to take a picture of it later.

And they do mean loads. There's a wall behind the customer service counter which is taller and wider than me. And three deep.

[Gorvi]

Would this be a good place to point out that the Best Buy I'm based in has a sign at the front of the door which states the following:

"We have loads of PS3s in stock. Loads. Please ask any associate."

I'll try to take a picture of it later.

And they do mean loads. There's a wall behind the customer service counter which is taller and wider than me. And three deep.

Man, send some of those to Florida. I'll probably be looking to pick one up in the next week, and I still haven't seen a unit in stock anywhere yet.

[fitbabits]

Man, send some of those to Florida. I'll probably be looking to pick one up in the next week, and I still haven't seen a unit in stock anywhere yet.
If I could, I would.

Actually, I sort of can. If you're serious about buying one, let me know and I'll set up a store transfer to whichever Best Buy you want to get one from in Florida.

[Gorvi]

If I could, I would.

Actually, I sort of can. If you're serious about buying one, let me know and I'll set up a store transfer to whichever Best Buy you want to get one from in Florida.

Nice. I very well may do that. I've got some gift card goodness from xmas, so I'm kinda tied to Best Buy for a purchase. All I'm waiting for is the nice little Sony credit card with the $150 credit deal to get here in the mail.

[Johan]

Man, send some of those to Florida. I'll probably be looking to pick one up in the next week, and I still haven't seen a unit in stock anywhere yet.

This is the thing right here; I think the PS3 "glut" or whatever we're calling it (let's just call it "on-hand supply") is NOT a universal phenomenon.

Seems to nearly be, though...

[fitbabits]

Nice. I very well may do that. I've got some gift card goodness from xmas, so I'm kinda tied to Best Buy for a purchase. All I'm waiting for is the nice little Sony credit card with the $150 credit deal to get here in the mail.
Keep me posted.

[TyphoidMarty]

I love that Zen phrase "With the tide all ships rise" - I expect to find it in a fortune cookie any day now.

I am glad that people can walk in and buy a PS3. I hope they manage to make it worth it for the people who do.

[BigJonno]

The fact that PS3s are sitting on shelves in some areas and unavailable in others doesn't surprise me. Sony seems to go on raw data rather than applying any kind of common sense. I remember having to really push PS2 pre-orders when I was at Toys 'R' Us, despite everywhere else having used up their allocations months before. Then our allocation was doubled. It turns out that Sony were assigning PS2s based on overall PS sales and failed to realise that few of the pre-ordering early adopters go to toy stores for their consoles.

I'm actually really interested in seeing how the PS3 does when it's launched over here. There doesn't seem to be any awareness of how much it's going to cost. Everyone I've spoken to, from the 10 year olds I teach, to casual gamers, to pretty hardcore gamers who don't follow the news, expected it to weigh in at £200-300. I wonder how many people are going to walk into the store, take one look at how much it is and either walk out or buy something else.

[wyeast]

Actually, I sort of can. If you're serious about buying one, let me know and I'll set up a store transfer to whichever Best Buy you want to get one from in Florida.
Fits: The EvAv PS3 Source.

How's that for bias? :D

[Zanzibar]

Theorem: Everyone who can afford the price of Console X has already bought Console X.

This sure as hell isn't true for the Wii. Can't find them, they're cheap, there's a lotta buzz around it.

It ALMOST is true for the PS3. Seriously, apart from one or two people here in the forums, I don't know of anyone who wants a PS3 AND is willing to spend the $500/$600 necessary for it. The hardcore early adopters have theirs, but I know several people who have said 'I am gonna wait until the price comes down.'

What's funny is that I think that it's as true for the X360 as it is for the PS3. The price still hasn't dropped, and while there are a bunch of good titles, it's still an expensive piece of machinery. I know two people here at work who are waiting for either a price drop, or one more 'killer app'. They've been eyeing Lost Planet since E3 and have been drooling.

[TeeCakes]

Thanks, Johan. I don't participate in every Sony post. I've let most of them go for the past couple of months. Like everyone else here, we've all been wrong before, but I'm supporting my take (ie a take is an opinion) with facts.

I could be wrong here. I think the last real unknown about the launch was when the demand would balance supply. It took 3 million for the 360. The Wii still hasn't balanced. The PS3 has balanced at 1 million. That's a really low number.

Go back to E3 of 2006 and read the posts here and elsewhere. Almost everyone was agreeing on one fact. Sony would sell as many PS3's as they could manufacturer through the holidays and well into Spring.

I'd like to find people predicting the PS3 would be on shelves at retail with only 1 million sold/shipped. People would have laughed at anyone making such a crazy claim. eBay sales were supposed to be the norm for months.

That's the barometer for what's really happening and the most important piece of info, IMO.

I wouldn't call your opinion 'wrong' as, by definition, opinions are incapable of being wrong if someone believes in it. But your logic is flawed here. You're basing the worldwide success of the PS3 only on the 1 million <b>US units</b> mark. You consistently neglect to mention the 500k units <b>sold</b> (not shipped) in Japan, and the UK, Australian, and African markets that have yet to even see the PS3 yet.

Now I agree with your opinion on a few points. The US market was indeed oversaturated, if there's any doubt of that, you can find all the Joystiq stories about 50+ PS3 60 gigers collecting dust, or the inept sellers at Best Buy talking people out of purchasing systems, or whatnot. I think Sony should've tried to spread the wealth out over the entire market instead of focusing on the American's disposable income to jumpstart the PS3's lifespan. Because we all know what happened-- ebay, ebay, ebay... then after-holidays returns, returns, returns...

There's also the embargo on US ebay sellers that prevented them from selling overseas to regions that hadn't received the PS3 launch yet. This was not present for the 360's launch, and therefore you didn't have as many returns because of a failed ebay auction. You also need to take this into account if you're using the 1 million units shipped mark as a 'barometer' for the PS3's US success (NOT worldwide success). The ebay auctions hurt Xbox 360's worldwide sales figures, but it won't stop the PS3 from launching well in the UK and other regions.

Basically, anything can happen at this early stage of the game. There's no question that the Wii's demand is larger than the PS3's, and the high cost of Sony's Blu-Ray console is making it hard for casual gamers to opt in like they might've back during Sony's PSone/PS2 heydey. But something tells me that everything that Sony's going through with the PS3 launch isn't something that didn't already predict. To say that they're 'sweating bullets' over the launch at this point is giving them way too little credit.... in my honest opinion.

[/ end first post]

[TeeCakes]

You know, the distribution of PS3s is kinda funny, there are Best Buys in Missouri with supplies to last them several weeks but they're sold out in some major cities like L.A. (joystiq (http://www.joystiq.com/2007/01/06/ps3-available-on-bestbuy-com-still/) ), and I still haven't seen any around Toronto (and as of right now Canadian online retailers are sold out (http://consolewatch.com/)).

And I don't think units being available is a negative thing, being sold out means something was underpriced. Had the 360 launched at, say $500 (when there was a lengthly shortage) then dropped down to $350 this summer I think Microsoft would have sold more units and had more overall revenue than selling at $400 for over a year. Next console launch I hope companies will charge whatever the market will bear the at first then lower the price after Christmas instead of having this stupidity of underpriced launches with everything being scooped up and resold on eBay.

Personally, I think Nintendo is going to own this generation but I still think Sony can do well and that they are a strong first party developer (especially with exclusive games from Insomniac, Factor 5, Level 5, Naughty Dog, Digital Polyphony, Ninja Theory and maybe whatever David Jaffe or Fumito Ueda are up to).

This is a really good point. I wonder how much people would be willing to pay for a Wii when the demand is so high (and supply is so low.) Using ebay as an estimate, one has to wonder if they would still be selling out if they had matched the 360's pricing (not the core, the more expensive $399 model). I'd wager they'd still be selling like Wii-cakes.

[RMan]

The hardcore early adopters have theirs, but I know several people who have said 'I am gonna wait until the price comes down.'
Yea, I think the real statement being made by these people is “it’s not worth it yet”, the difference being they’d likely be willing to buy it at current prices if there was enough software. Personally, I don’t see enough software for the PS3 that makes me willing to go to the store and get a PS3 and hook it up, much less pay for it (not trying to flame the system, just saying, the software just isn’t appealing enough to me). I think software is definitely the problem for the PS3, far more than the price, effectively it’s only $100 more than the 360, but the 360 has a FAR more appealing roster of games at this time (I think that’d be true for almost all players).

[Gorvi]

PS3 sales should pick up through the end of February and March once some actual games start coming out. I'm planning on picking up a PS3 sometime in the next week, but if I wasn't at least partially interested in it as a Blu-Ray player, Resistance wouldn't be enough. I really think we'll see a 're-launch' of sorts that coincides with the European launch.

[Kamalot]

PS3 sales should pick up through the end of February and March once some actual games start coming out. I'm planning on picking up a PS3 sometime in the next week, but if I wasn't at least partially interested in it as a Blu-Ray player, Resistance wouldn't be enough. I really think we'll see a 're-launch' of sorts that coincides with the European launch.
You do realize that you can order a PS3 online from Best Buy right now, right? They have them in stock. You can probably even use gift cards and such online.

[Gorvi]

You do realize that you can order a PS3 online from Best Buy right now, right? They have them in stock. You can probably even use gift cards and such online.

Yep, I do, I'm just waiting on the Sony credit card to come in the mail. Getting the $150 back off of the price plus having a year to pay it off is a big help.

[TeeCakes]

Just curious on how one goes about getting a $150 credit card from Sony. Oh, and can you buy Wii's on Bestbuy.com, as well? If not, I declare Sony the winner of the next-gen race hands down.

I tried to keep a straight face while typing that. I failed.

[Gorvi]

Just curious on how one goes about getting a $150 credit card from Sony. Oh, and can you buy Wii's on Bestbuy.com, as well? If not, I declare Sony the winner of the next-gen race hands down.

I tried to keep a straight face while typing that. I failed.

They were running a special a few weeks ago (it's over now I believe) that if you sign up for a Sony credit card, you'll get $150 credited to your account once you make a purchase on the card. I did a quite a bit of looking around before I actually signed up for it, and everything seems to be legit. There was a pretty good thread over at Cheap Ass Gamer about it.

[Hagetaka]

I wonder how much longer MS will hold out on the price drop. And when they do finally chop a quarter of the price, how many people will bite. I know several people who are waiting for a drop in price to pick up their hardware; seeing as how the software in already in the frame, or in the chute.

That being said. I'm really getting excited over all of this. Maybe Sony does know what they are doing, and the next-gen can *ahem* begin. With the Wii pulling around the bend (production wise), and Sony playing the waiting game for some software, it's perfectly reasonable to say that the gloves are officially off. And, if I do say so, what an interesting holiday season.

[Johan]

They were running a special a few weeks ago (it's over now I believe) that if you sign up for a Sony credit card, you'll get $150 credited to your account once you make a purchase on the card. I did a quite a bit of looking around before I actually signed up for it, and everything seems to be legit. There was a pretty good thread over at Cheap Ass Gamer about it.

Exactly right...and it is definitely over. But it is/was entirely legit, from everything I have seen and read from others.

Cool deal for you! Get the deluxe version for $450!!! That's a darn steal! $450 for like $900 bucks of tech.!

[Neosho]

I wouldn't call your opinion 'wrong' as, by definition, opinions are incapable of being wrong if someone believes in it. But your logic is flawed here. You're basing the worldwide success of the PS3 only on the 1 million <b>US units</b> mark. You consistently neglect to mention the 500k units <b>sold</b> (not shipped) in Japan, and the UK, Australian, and African markets that have yet to even see the PS3 yet.

Now I agree with your opinion on a few points. The US market was indeed oversaturated, if there's any doubt of that, you can find all the Joystiq stories about 50+ PS3 60 gigers collecting dust, or the inept sellers at Best Buy talking people out of purchasing systems, or whatnot. I think Sony should've tried to spread the wealth out over the entire market instead of focusing on the American's disposable income to jumpstart the PS3's lifespan. Because we all know what happened-- ebay, ebay, ebay... then after-holidays returns, returns, returns...

There's also the embargo on US ebay sellers that prevented them from selling overseas to regions that hadn't received the PS3 launch yet. This was not present for the 360's launch, and therefore you didn't have as many returns because of a failed ebay auction. You also need to take this into account if you're using the 1 million units shipped mark as a 'barometer' for the PS3's US success (NOT worldwide success). The ebay auctions hurt Xbox 360's worldwide sales figures, but it won't stop the PS3 from launching well in the UK and other regions.

Basically, anything can happen at this early stage of the game. There's no question that the Wii's demand is larger than the PS3's, and the high cost of Sony's Blu-Ray console is making it hard for casual gamers to opt in like they might've back during Sony's PSone/PS2 heydey. But something tells me that everything that Sony's going through with the PS3 launch isn't something that didn't already predict. To say that they're 'sweating bullets' over the launch at this point is giving them way too little credit.... in my honest opinion.

[/ end first post]
Nice first post, and welcome!

However, i think that more than anything else, the market saturation in the US is telling. The fact that you can walk in a buy one in most metropolitan areas at the moment is very telling...the last thing you want is supply outstripping demand this soon after launch. The Wii is an excellent example...it's still hard to find Wiis, accessories, etc...

While you are correct in that the lack of selling US PS3's to the people outside of the US changes their launches a bit...i'd wager that the number of people that would have done that are pretty insignificant anyways, in the grand scheme of 1 million shipped.

If they were still flying off the shelves, that'd be one thing...but i can't think that sony is happy right now, producing consoles at a massive loss and then failing to recoup their losses at all.

The lack of sales is interesting because people are still not buying them, despite availability in most areas...sony needs a reason to sell PS3's, and honestly, they don't have any good games at the moment. No MGS, nothing...and their sales are suffering for it. Demand is unsuprisingly, pretty god damn low for a system with only 2 real games on it...Motorstorm and Fall of Man.

[balamoor]

Well the whole eBay auction thing has dried up long ago, PS3 are plentiful (I didn’t say Rotting on the shelves I said Plentiful :rolleyes: ) My wife is trying to figure out though what to do with the returns that are currently sitting in the back of the EB that she manages, corporate will not take them in yet, and she refuses to do like some EB managers and sell them for new. So yeah shipped a Mil but really sold a fraction of that when all is said and done.


On the other hand, I think its awesome that the guy that didn't want to compete (Nintendo) System is flying off the shelves, second only to the 360.

[Dag-Sabot]

I love that quote "With the tide all ships rise." He could just as easily have said "With the tide all sails rise" but then there would be the argument of ship vs. sail. ;)More correctly: "A rising tide floats all boats". Unfortunately for SONY, theirs has a large hole.

-It has nothing to do with sail or rigging. A rising tide floats an aircraft carrier as surely as an empty sardine can.

[easi]

It was just a crap pun, clearly not intended to make literal sense.

[Dag-Sabot]

It was just a crap pun, clearly not intended to make literal sense.Oh jeez, Im sorry. That's terrible.

[Gorvi]

If I could, I would.

Actually, I sort of can. If you're serious about buying one, let me know and I'll set up a store transfer to whichever Best Buy you want to get one from in Florida.

Well, Fit, if the offer stands, I'll take ya up on that. I just tried calling the stores within a reasonable distance of me (numbers 462, 561, 564, 565, and 885) and all are out of stock. If you can do a transfer, the easiest store would be this one :
Store #564
21415 US Highway 19 N
Clearwater, FL 33765

I'm looking for a 60GB version.

EDIT : Nevermind, I won't be needing that anymore. ;)

[DangerousDaze]

Oh jeez, Im sorry. That's terrible.
Bite my shiny metal ass.