NPD Dec06 - 2 million 360's - 1.8 million Wii's?

[JimmyDanger]

Games Industry (http://www.gamesindustry.biz) have reported (http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=21958) that indications - pre the official release of their November - December 25th figures will show that 2 million 360's and 1.8 million Wii's were sold in North America during that period.

Things may not be all bad for Sony - with 750,00 units estimated to be sold in that period.

No final figures yet - but it's a slow news day.

According to the firm's preliminary estimates, as reported by CNBC, around 2 million Xbox 360 units were sold in North America from November up until December 25.

The figure for Nintendo Wii stood at 1.8 million units - despite the fact the console only launched in North America on November 19, and the first batch of stock sold out within hours.

Stock shortages were an even bigger problem for Sony. Around 750,000 PlayStation 3 units were sold during the same period.

[bean19]

This source is a lot stronger than nextgenwars and vgcharts. Good information.

[phantomhitman]

is there a soundscan type video game sales chart anywhere?

[Borys]

These are not official yet, just predictions.

[goc_sin]

If those numbers were true.. can you imagine what it would have been like if stores actually had wii's in stock?

[phantomhitman]

If those numbers were true.. can you imagine what it would have been like if stores actually had wii's in stock?

wii would have sold 6 billion consoles?!

on a related note, there are tons of ps3s laying around my part of the us. everyone has them, from gamestop to bestbuy to walmart. no one wants them anymore, the hype is dead.

[Morratut]

Wow that is a lot of hardware shipped. I'm quite amazed at how many 360's have shipped. Good news.

Look forward to the official figures.

[Gorvi]

wii would have sold 6 billion consoles?!

on a related note, there are tons of ps3s laying around my part of the us. everyone has them, from gamestop to bestbuy to walmart. no one wants them anymore, the hype is dead.

I'm glad it's like that near you, but I've yet to see one anywhere. Of course, I refuse to give any of my business to the EB/Gamestop empire if I can avoid it, so I haven't checked there, but Best Buy/Circuit City/Sears/Walmart are all sold out and continue to be that way.

[easi]

on a related note, there are tons of ps3s laying around my part of the us. everyone has them, from gamestop to bestbuy to walmart. no one wants them anymore, the hype is dead.

Yeah I think there are a bunch of Sony marks who will buy it no matter what, now that they've done so (with a < 1.0 attach rate) we're seeing exactly what gamers think of Ken's mean lean grilling machine.

[bKangy]

A good performance for 360 and Wii considering that 360 was going up against two console launches, and that the Wii was well, a launching console.

[Vandenh]

Nice... impressive for Wii and 360. Looks like both consoles will be close to the claims made by MS and Nintendo.

[phantomhitman]

There were at least 20 60 gigs units at best buy and 10 at walmart. eb/gamestop had only 2. I would get one in a second but the bluray issues and hmdi/1080p issues scare me. I am still waiting on the launch lineup of games to be shipped as well.

[Gorvi]

Anyone else suprised that 750k PS3s actually sold over that time? It looks like the whole shortage thing was pretty short lived. That would make over a 1 million install base world wide, not too bad really for all the troubles they've had.

[score]

Wow. Those are some impressive numbers for the Wii if true.

[Disgustipated]

I'm amazed at how well 360 and Wii are doing. I wonder if 100 million 360's and Wii's sold (each)(ala PS1 and PS2) isn't too farfetched?

[Balthasar]

I'm amazed at how well 360 and Wii are doing. I wonder if 100 million 360's and Wii's sold (each)(ala PS1 and PS2) isn't too farfetched?
I would say that it is, especially if you think each console themselves could sell that many. It's unlikely for a lot of reasons, one of them being that Microsoft won't support the 360 long enough to ever make that a realistic goal. It will have a 4 year lifespan at the most.

[NoName]

There were at least 20 60 gigs units at best buy and 10 at walmart. eb/gamestop had only 2. I would get one in a second but the bluray issues and hmdi/1080p issues scare me. I am still waiting on the launch lineup of games to be shipped as well.
Maybe it's a North Carolina thing, same thing in the Raleigh/Cary area. Tons of PS3s everywhere you go, no one wants them.

Anything Wii related gets bought faster than one can blink though.

[bapenguin]

I would say that it is, especially if you think each console themselves could sell that many. It's unlikely for a lot of reasons, one of them being that Microsoft won't support the 360 long enough to ever make that a realistic goal. It will have a 4 year lifespan at the most.

I know for a fact that there is a plan in place for 7 years.

[Uniqueusername]

Wiis sold very well in Australia- best console release so far, and what makes it even more impressive is that Nintendo actually managed to keep them available. Certainly, a lot of places ran out, but if you were willing to look around you could get one pretty easily. Currently, two of four places I recently checked have had them in stock.
It's the first time Nintendo (or any console maker) actually bothered to get a launch right here, and I hope they do well.

The funny thing is that some places sold out of 360s as well. Of the four I checked, one was completely out, two were out of premium units, and only one had both in stock.
Memory units for the 360 are out of stock most places- I had to check 8 shops before I found one, and I got the last he had.

[kokyunage]

Ugh, I wish I could find a Wii. My girlfriend and I went to 2 Targets, 1 Walmart, 2 Bestbuys, and one EB to find one yesterday. Found no Wii's :(

[graySUPERBEAST]

I would say that it is, especially if you think each console themselves could sell that many. It's unlikely for a lot of reasons, one of them being that Microsoft won't support the 360 long enough to ever make that a realistic goal. It will have a 4 year lifespan at the most.


What's your basis for saying this?

[Grifter]

Maybe it's a North Carolina thing, same thing in the Raleigh/Cary area. Tons of PS3s everywhere you go, no one wants them.

Anything Wii related gets bought faster than one can blink though.

It's pretty much the same thing here in Reno (northern Nevada) I am practicly tripping over the damn things everytime I go near an electronics/game store.

[graySUPERBEAST]

Ugh, I wish I could find a Wii. My girlfriend and I went to 2 Targets, 1 Walmart, 2 Bestbuys, and one EB to find one yesterday. Found no Wii's :(

Look in the bathroom. :D

[Savok]

I wonder how they count returned PS3s from scalpers who couldn't make a profit anymore.

[Gorvi]

Ugh, I wish I could find a Wii. My girlfriend and I went to 2 Targets, 1 Walmart, 2 Bestbuys, and one EB to find one yesterday. Found no Wii's :(

The phone is your friend, man. Just make a list of numbers to call and take 20 minutes every few days (or daily if you're so inclined) and make a few calls.

[score]

What's your basis for saying this?

He's probably basing it on past performance

[Reanimated]

Yeah, I've been seeing PS3s everywhere, and there are pictures all over the net of big stacks of them sitting in stores. Either sony managed to ship a hojillion of them the week of christmas, or people just don't give a shit. I guess we'll find out which it is after the January NPD numbers are released.

Anyway, what a great holiday season for 360 and Wii. I guess the Wii60 crowd got what they wanted for Christmas. :)

[Vermillion]

I wonder how many of those PS3's were sold then Ebay'd, or returned because they didn't sell on Ebay.

I wish there had been more Wii, I would have picked one up for sure. The day I can casually walk in a store and see one is the day I'll get one.

[The Continental]

What's your basis for saying this?This article (http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/12043/Microsoft-to-Design-Its-Own-Chips-Xbox-360-Successor-Already-in-the-Works/) serves as a decent indicator, but otherwise I think MS is flexing it's financial muscle by shortening the console life cycle in order to beat Sony at their own game. If MS can releae a new console every 4 years, they essentially halve the shelf life of the competitor's consoles among the hardcore who will buy the new console simply because it's new and the games look that much better. Sony can't afford to keep up with MS, particularly as they are fond of new, unconventional architecture in their consoles, whereas Microsoft is essentially throwing a beefier PC in a console shell.

The 10,000,000 unit first mover advantage the 360 has enjoyed in this year alone shows that this is an effective strategy. Sony has stated many times that they expect the PS3 to have a 10 year lifespan. Even if MS only supported the 360 for 5 years, they'd still have a huge jump on Sony in the next generation.

[Gorvi]

This article (http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/12043/Microsoft-to-Design-Its-Own-Chips-Xbox-360-Successor-Already-in-the-Works/) serves as a decent indicator, but otherwise I think MS is flexing it's financial muscle by shortening the console life cycle in order to beat Sony at their own game. If MS can releae a new console every 4 years, they essentially halve the shelf life of the competitor's consoles among the hardcore who will buy the new console simply because it's new and the games look that much better. Sony can't afford to keep up with MS, particularly as they are fond of new, unconventional architecture in their consoles, whereas Microsoft is essentially throwing a beefier PC in a console shell.

The 10,000,000 unit first mover advantage the 360 has enjoyed in this year alone shows that this is an effective strategy. Sony has stated many times that they expect the PS3 to have a 10 year lifespan. Even if MS only supported the 360 for 5 years, they'd still have a huge jump on Sony in the next generation.

Are consumers really stupid enough though to spend $400+ for a new console every 4 years? Hell, that means if you bought a 360 now, you'd have 3 years left in it before MS drops all support in favor of their next console. I really hope people won't just take that kind of shit.

[Kamalot]

Anyone else suprised that 750k PS3s actually sold over that time? It looks like the whole shortage thing was pretty short lived. That would make over a 1 million install base world wide, not too bad really for all the troubles they've had.
How many were they claiming to have in consumer's hands before the end of the year?

Dind't they recently come out and say their production issues were over and that they would meet their earlier announcements?

[Kamalot]

Are consumers really stupid enough though to spend $400+ for a new console every 4 years? Hell, that means if you bought a 360 now, you'd have 3 years left in it before MS drops all support in favor of their next console. I really hope people won't just take that kind of shit.

What's the difference between buying a new $400 console every 4 years compared to buying a new $600 every 6 years?

The original Xbox lasted 4 years before the launch of the Xbox 360.
The PS2 lasted 6 years before the launch of the PS3.

[Sandman]

Where were those 1.8 million Wiis when I was trying to find one huh? huh? Send me a Wii damnit.

[Balthasar]

I know for a fact that there is a plan in place for 7 years.
How could you know "for a fact" that they will support it for 7 years? What if Sony decides to release a PS4 in 3-4 years? What if Nintendo releases a new console in that time? Do you believe Microsoft won't be compelled to match their release dates and/or beat them to the punch again?

[Schnoogs]

Of the 750,000 PS3's sold how many were quickly returned and sitting back on the stores shelves? ;)

[Gorvi]

What's the difference between buying a new $400 console every 4 years compared to buying a new $600 every 6 years?

The original Xbox lasted 4 years before the launch of the Xbox 360.
The PS2 lasted 6 years before the launch of the PS3.

Because normally when you buy a console you expect it to last longer than that. Also, Sony has had a history of actually supporting it's consoles after their successor's launch, MS dropped the first XBOX completely. Wouldn't you be a bit pissed to buy a 360 right now only for MS to drop all support in 3 years for their next big thing? I personally don't like the way MS handled the transition between the XBOX and the 360, and if they do it again with the 360 and whatever else they come out with, they'll have lost a potential customer permanantly. Shortening the console life cycle is bad for the consumer, how do you not see this?

[Schnoogs]

MS is not going to dump the 360 in 3 years....I think we can all agree on that.

4-5 years is more likely based off of console history and a sprinkle of common sense ;)

[Gorvi]

MS is not going to dump the 360 in 3 years....I think we can all agree on that.

I think a lot of people would have thought the same thing a year after the XBOX launched. I know I did when I bought mine then. Time will tell, but it certianly shook my faith in them in that regard.

[ldi222]

I wasnt happy about the way MS dropped the Xbox either but I dont think they will do the same thing with 360 because it will end up having a far larger installed base this gen and will be the leader in most markets outside of Japan.

[Johan]

I heard MS is dumping the 360 tomorrow!

No; I have no idea. All I know is I can find PS3s at my local stores (don't want one), but can't find any DSs or Wiis (want one of each).

Frustrating.

[bean19]

Are consumers really stupid enough though to spend $400+ for a new console every 4 years? Hell, that means if you bought a 360 now, you'd have 3 years left in it before MS drops all support in favor of their next console. I really hope people won't just take that kind of shit.

The Xbox lost support because it wasn't making them very much money. If they have a winning system, then of course they will continue to support it while it makes money - though not very much. They'll support it like Sony is supporting the PS2. . . with a few titles out the year they move to next-gen, but with most of their efforts put into securing their future in the console wars.

A lot of the people who are screaming that the Xbox isn't getting any new titles don't seem to realize that this is what it is going to look like a year from now for the PS2 and the GC (well, already for the GC for the most part as nearly everything that has come out for it is also coming out on the Wii).

As far as spending $400 every 5 years. Well, that depends on whether or not they make a system that is significantly better in 2010-2011. Chances are that all of the big-3 will be coming out with new systems around that time. We still have the 4-5 years before that is upon us and by that time I'm guessing that DirectX 10 will have hit it's stride and we may even have a form of super-fast and super-large memory that changes the whole way we load things up and down from RAM. If/when that comes it will completely change the capability of games as we'll have "infinite" RAM. Still, even if all we are looking at is an Xbox 3 with a better videocard, processor, and more RAM, then we'll still see significant performance improvements. . . The point is that we should worry about that in 2011.

[Kamalot]

Because normally when you buy a console you expect it to last longer than that. Also, Sony has had a history of actually supporting it's consoles after their successor's launch, MS dropped the first XBOX completely.
Your whole argument is nothing but spreading FUD.

Sorry if YOU feel upset about the launch of the 360, but there is NO difference in spending $400 on a 4-year console or spending $600 on a 6-year console.

[Schnoogs]

:rolleyes: Your whole argument is nothing but spreading FUD.

Sorry if YOU feel upset about the launch of the 360, but there is NO difference in spending $400 on a 4-year console or spending $600 on a 6-year console.

Actually there is...seeing as it usually takes 3-4 years for developers to know the platform well enough to make the very best games.

So MS would be dumping their console right when things are getting interesting...brilliant move!

[Gorvi]

Your whole argument is nothing but spreading FUD.

Sorry if YOU feel upset about the launch of the 360, but there is NO difference in spending $400 on a 4-year console or spending $600 on a 6-year console.

Or, my actual comment was in response to a post made by The Continental citing an article about a possible tactic by MS to outspend Sony by releaseing a console every 4 years. I never said it would happen, just that I hope gamers wouldn't be stupid enough to actually buy it if it did happen. FUD would be your constant comments about how every PS3 exclusive is heading to the 360. Saying that I'd be pissed, if I were a 360 owner, if MS pulled the same stunt with the 360 as they did with the original XBOX is stating my opinion.

[wezlypipz]

Yeah, two of my friends who don't play that many video games just bought 360's. Two more people to kill on Xbox Live. Awwww yeah!

[DaXIthR]

What's the difference between buying a new $400 console every 4 years compared to buying a new $600 every 6 years?

The difference is the price tag the consumer sees when he or she walks into the store.

Clearly, the first year of the X360 shows that people were ready to upgrade their consoles. Though MS never got its touted 10M unit lead, I think it's fair to say that it still had a successful first year.

Early adopters of any technology will base their purchase largely on potential. The potential of a $250 purchase vs a $400 one vs a $600 one is judged - we have learned - not on its predecessor (brand loyalty is something else), but on the individual merits and demerits of each system on the visit to the local electronics store.

Post Christmas, we see Wiis are still in short supply, while PS3's seem to be everywhere based on anecdotal evidence. Are PS3's not selling because everyone is broke after the holidays? If so, then why isn't the same thing happening to Wiis? It must be the price difference and or perceived quality of the system and software.

The question is, looking at the ridiculous demand for the Wii, where sell-through seems to be so close to 100%, would we be willing to bet that the Wii would outsell the PS3 if they both sold at the same price?

[crashedout]

Are consumers really stupid enough though to spend $400+ for a new console every 4 years? Hell, that means if you bought a 360 now, you'd have 3 years left in it before MS drops all support in favor of their next console. I really hope people won't just take that kind of shit.

That's only 100 bucks a year if you are an early adopter plus the MCE extender portion can be viable for longer than that. I don't consider it stupid if the new console offers something new or something I want I'll buy it right away. I thought the ps2 cycle was way too long, I wanted it replaced two years ago. I suppose I have been conditioned by the PC upgrade cycle, but five years is pushing it to me. That being said if the ps4, wii2 or 360.2 show up like the ps3 did I won't buy it. Different strokes to different folks....

[bapenguin]

How could you know "for a fact" that they will support it for 7 years? What if Sony decides to release a PS4 in 3-4 years? What if Nintendo releases a new console in that time? Do you believe Microsoft won't be compelled to match their release dates and/or beat them to the punch again?

Because I signed something that had that number on it. I'm sure they could release something else, but I don't think they'll drop it like they did the XBox. They might support both at the same time, especially since the 360 is already making them money.

[gspot]

You know, not to flame them, but I am really glad sony failed. No one can deny they fucked this launch up royally, and if they were to succeed regardless, it would prove profitable to lie about numbers and screw over fans.

[Balthasar]

Because I signed something that had that number on it. I'm sure they could release something else, but I don't think they'll drop it like they did the XBox. They might support both at the same time, especially since the 360 is already making them money.
Well, technically, they still "supported" the XBox when the 360 came out. Given how much stock they put in getting a console released before competitors, they aren't going to release their next console simply to get it out there; they're going to release it to sell and to pick up an installed base quicker than the competition. This necessarily means focusing more on the newer hardware and de-emphasizing the old. The 360's lifespan will be dicated almost entirely on the strategies of Nintendo and Sony in the coming years. They think "first to 10 million" really means something, so I don't see how their strategy would veer in any way.

[Gorvi]

That's only 100 bucks a year if you are an early adopter plus the MCE extender portion can be viable for longer than that. I don't consider it stupid if the new console offers something new or something I want I'll buy it right away. I thought the ps2 cycle was way too long, I wanted it replaced two years ago. I suppose I have been conditioned by the PC upgrade cycle, but five years is pushing it to me. That being said if the ps4, wii2 or 360.2 show up like the ps3 did I won't buy it. Different strokes to different folks....

Oh, you're right, it's really not that bad for the early adopters (not ideal IMO though, but not too bad). But, the ones that buy the console 1-2 years into the cycle (where I'd bet the bulk of the pre-price drop sales come in) are the ones who really get screwed. I was happy with my PS2, XBOX, and GC, and I would be fine with them still if it weren't for the new consoles already being out.

[Hellstorm]

Are consumers really stupid enough though to spend $400+ for a new console every 4 years? Hell, that means if you bought a 360 now, you'd have 3 years left in it before MS drops all support in favor of their next console. I really hope people won't just take that kind of shit.

Well, MS is hoping consumers are stupid enough.

[Sloth]

my friend got a 360 for xmas, and he's a big ps2 fan but he didn't like the game lineup for the ps3 right now.

[Shodan2020]

I'm glad it's like that near you, but I've yet to see one anywhere. Of course, I refuse to give any of my business to the EB/Gamestop empire if I can avoid it, so I haven't checked there, but Best Buy/Circuit City/Sears/Walmart are all sold out and continue to be that way.

Heh, come to Indiana. My roommate and I went Wii hunting this past week and came up empty handed. The Wal-Mart Supercenter had 4 PS3s to sell but no Wiis.

Still looking for a Wii.

[antoniogaud]

Went to a party last night and brought Wii. 4 couples, I was the only gamer, but they had all heard about the Wii and wanted to play it. 120" projection screen TV + 8 people = 3 more Wii purchases in the future. EVERYONE wanted to play it and the party, which wasn't supposed to be Wii only, was Wii-only for 5 hours. The hosts begged me to let them borrow it for the week, which I did.

My point. If I had brought my PS3 over, or even X360, I seriously doubt I would have gotten that reaction. In fact, I doubt I would have gotten any reaction other than "Why did this guy bring a videogame machine' to a couples party?

[Gorvi]

Went to a party last night and brought Wii. 4 couples, I was the only gamer, but they had all heard about the Wii and wanted to play it. 120" projection screen TV + 8 people = 3 more Wii purchases in the future. EVERYONE wanted to play it and the party, which wasn't supposed to be Wii only, was Wii-only for 5 hours. The hosts begged me to let them borrow it for the week, which I did.

My point. If I had brought my PS3 over, or even X360, I seriously doubt I would have gotten that reaction. In fact, I doubt I would have gotten any reaction other than "Why did this guy bring a videogame machine' to a couples party?

And that's the big strength that the Wii has : it's great for situations like that. The Wii will be the party console. Nintendo just needs to work on getting the games that will occupy the rest of your gaming time out there.

[entropy123]

This year I bought my first console since the original US Nintendo. It was an XBOX 360. Mainly because I could find one and there were quite a few games on the backward compatible list I want to play.

[antoniogaud]

Another interesting thing, besides everyone wanting a Wii, was the list of games that everyone hoped Nintendo would make:

- women wanted exercise games
- men wanted more sports: Volleyball, Racquetball and realistic tennis and golf
- everyone wanted boardgame/gameshow activities

If Nintendo follows this route, they are in for a windfall...

[Balthasar]

My point. If I had brought my PS3 over, or even X360, I seriously doubt I would have gotten that reaction. In fact, I doubt I would have gotten any reaction other than "Why did this guy bring a videogame machine' to a couples party?
Sounds like the sort of situation people will be hearing about again and again for the next three years.

[RevGored]

I'm glad it's like that near you, but I've yet to see one anywhere. Of course, I refuse to give any of my business to the EB/Gamestop empire if I can avoid it, so I haven't checked there, but Best Buy/Circuit City/Sears/Walmart are all sold out and continue to be that way.

hahaha you refuse to give your business to the EB/Gamestop empire, yet your searching at the 3 biggest commercial retailers on planet Earth has failed to bear any fruit.

You do realize that whatever principle you're applying ethically to not shopping at EB/GS probably just blankets ad nauseum to every aspect of business with the other 3 companies, correct? Or, if it's just because you hate being asked if you want to buy a used game, why not just order from thier website and never have to deal with real people like all the other shut-ins?

[51|RandoM]

Anyone else suprised that 750k PS3s actually sold over that time? It looks like the whole shortage thing was pretty short lived. That would make over a 1 million install base world wide, not too bad really for all the troubles they've had.

I'm not suprised at all. Then again, when they stated that they'd cleared up the production problem and that production was ramping up... I believed them.

lol.

[Meatgortex]

MS dumped the xbox because they could never cost reduce it effectively. There were still losing money on the box 4 years in. It didn't make financial sense to continue because there was no chance to ever make money. They aren't in this for charity so they wanted the machine dead quickly.

360 is a very different story, MS signed contracts that allow them to have all the cost reduction capabilities that Sony had with the PS2. This means they will be turning a profit on the machine in it's later life. Companies like profit and thus support profitable products. The 360 will have a long tail end just like the PS2 will have because there is money to be made selling the system.

If you want to understand a lot more about what is going on behind the scenes check out Takahashi's book. http://tinyurl.com/yahwea

[Gorvi]

hahaha you refuse to give your business to the EB/Gamestop empire, yet your searching at the 3 biggest commercial retailers on planet Earth has failed to bear any fruit.

You do realize that whatever principle you're applying ethically to not shopping at EB/GS probably just blankets ad nauseum to every aspect of business with the other 3 companies, correct? Or, if it's just because you hate being asked if you want to buy a used game, why not just order from thier website and never have to deal with real people like all the other shut-ins?

You're right, they do fall pretty much into a very similiar category. Maybe it's just the dirty feeling I get walking out of an EB/Gamestop. I feel like they're taking the industry that I grew up with and pay so much attention to and they're cheapening it somehow. None of the employees ever seem to know what the hell they're talking about, but they act like they do.

They're good for getting that game you really want the very day it comes out, otherwise I try to avoid shopping there. It's probably just me though.

[51|RandoM]

my friend got a 360 for xmas, and he's a big ps2 fan but he didn't like the game lineup for the ps3 right now.

Nobody sane likes the PS3 game lineup right now.

[51|RandoM]

They're good for getting that game you really want the very day it comes out, otherwise I try to avoid shopping there.

Only if you preorder... and occassionally not even then.

They've gone from a dedicated, dependeble gaming store to a videogame pawnshop.

[Gorvi]

Nobody sane likes the PS3 game lineup right now.

That thankfully should change in February with Motorstorm, Virtua Fighter 5, Oblivion, and Bladestorm.

[RevGored]

You're right, they do fall pretty much into a very similiar category. Maybe it's just the dirty feeling I get walking out of an EB/Gamestop. I feel like they're taking the industry that I grew up with and pay so much attention to and they're cheapening it somehow. None of the employees ever seem to know what the hell they're talking about, but they act like they do.

They're good for getting that game you really want the very day it comes out, otherwise I try to avoid shopping there. It's probably just me though.

Sounds like you've got a bad EB/GS in your area man. I've got 3 in my area, and I'm lucky enough that the one in my hometown is actually staffed by people who read and post here everyday, and maintain a working knowledge of most of the industry in general.

As for the feeling that there's a company taking something you loved and grew uip with and taking advantage of it, there is. But on the same token, look at all the publishers and developers that are in the market now for that exact same purpose. It's like a low-grade Hollywood, filled with b-actors and directors just trying to get noticed sometimes, and it sucks.

A long time ago, I learned to deal with the fact that videogames are now taking front seat as far as popular media goes, and they will garner the kind of attention that space offers as well; the good and the outright fucking awful (Spike VideoGame Awards). Now that videogames are as huge as they've gotten, it takes away from the personal touch that alot of them used to have - I grew up with mainly PCRPG's like the Ultima series, Might and Magic, et al, and the namedrops/in-jokes that the writers and coders put in those were awesome, and had a different feeling than the detached 'all your base' elbow nudges that you see in games today.

I would honestly say that if anything has influenced the gaming industry this last 10 years to reach the plateau it's at now, it would probably be the accessibility of the internet. Even EB/GS were just hole in the wall nobodies until the PS2 came out, to be totally honest. After that, the marketing juggernauts started to really churn, and the amount of free advertising the internet offers went hand-in-hand with that kind of thing. The obscene amount of viral marketing and in-house forum shills that companies try to pass off as legitimate practice now only solidifies the fact that the internet, a cesspool of misinformation and destructive urge towards the industry that it may be, is probably the single biggest reason that videogames are in thier current position today.

Sorry about that, just had a :( moment about the whole thing myself.

[Disgustipated]

Hahaha, a post I found on Joystiq's equivalent to this thread.


25. all you people are sucks your downing the PS3 becuase your too poor to get 1. the sales figures are BS the ps system will pwn all those little girl gaming systems like the 360 and the Wii. i'm tired of all the negitive sony news nothing ever good to say about the PS3. the PS3 IS were the real gamers are
L33T 13337 P*N NUBZ BIATHCES!!!
SONY WILL WIN MS FANYBOYS WILL CRY LIKE LITTLE BABY GIRLS

Posted at 11:11AM on Jan 2nd 2007 by SONY4ever

Wow, I love that. I love the fucking Internet. :D

[Kamalot]

That thankfully should change in February with Motorstorm, Virtua Fighter 5, Oblivion, and Bladestorm.
With Virtual Fighter coming to the 360 and Oblivion already available on other platforms, that leaves Motorstorm and Bladestorm of games to look forward to.

That means Sony is preparing a 'storm' of games. :D

[Grifter]

That thankfully should change in February with Motorstorm, Virtua Fighter 5, Oblivion, and Bladestorm.


Yeah but I already have Oblivion, both Virtua Fighter 5 and Bladestorm are coming to the 360 which is $100 to $200 cheaper and will look just as good plus have the benefits of the Live feature set (Gamer score, Chatting..etc) and Motorstorm, even though it looks good still isn't worth $500 or $600 even with RFoM. I also keep hearing that while Motorstorm is fun for a little while it is very short with no substance, depth and very little replay value.


Damnit! I need to learn to type faster. I should have known Kamalot would have been all over that like stink on shit.

[51|RandoM]

The 360 will probably have a strong business case for keeping it around after the next MS console is released.

The only reason the XBOX had was, "don't be an ass to your xbox customers" and that just wasn't enough for the decision-makers in Redmond. :p

[51|RandoM]

With Virtual Fighter coming to the 360 and Oblivion already available on other platforms, that leaves Motorstorm and Bladestorm of games to look forward to.


People can look forward to Oblivion on the PS3 and they can look forward to Virtua Fighter on the PS3.

They just have to use the same old argument the xbots roll out when people say the same thing about ports on the 360.

While I wouldn't advocate just sticking with Sony(or just any one vendor) for consoles, I bet there are more people who just stick with Sony than who just stick with Microsoft when it comes to committment between last generation and this generation.

[Gorvi]

Yeah but I already have Oblivion, both Virtua Fighter 5 and Bladestorm are coming to the 360 which is $100 to $200 cheaper and will look just as good plus have the benefits of the Live feature set (Gamer score, Chatting..etc) and Motorstorm, even though it looks good still isn't worth $500 or $600 even with RFoM. I also keep hearing that while Motorstorm is fun for a little while it is very short with no substance, depth and very little replay value.


Damnit! I need to learn to type faster. I should have known Kamalot would have been all over that like stink on shit.

Yep, if I had a 360, that would diminish the meaning of those games coming out. But, since I don't plan on purchasing a 360 (and I don't have a PC nearly powerful enough to run Oblivion) I'm looking forward to those games.

[bean19]

While I wouldn't advocate just sticking with Sony(or just any one vendor) for consoles, I bet there are more people who just stick with Sony than who just stick with Microsoft when it comes to committment between last generation and this generation.

I agree with you about this, and I'm one of the people who loved Sony. I've had probably twice as much fun on my PS2 than I had on my Xbox.

Then again, I follow the games. . . not some silly affection for a brand name.

[absolut taco]

Are consumers really stupid enough though to spend $400+ for a new console every 4 years? Hell, that means if you bought a 360 now, you'd have 3 years left in it before MS drops all support in favor of their next console. I really hope people won't just take that kind of shit.
I think 4 years is the perfect age to release a new console. Considering how much more powerful an X360 is compared to an Xbox, if technology keeps moving forward at this pace I want to move with it.

[TheEpicOfTyler]

So I guess VGCharts was right.

[Grifter]

Yep, if I had a 360, that would diminish the meaning of those games coming out. But, since I don't plan on purchasing a 360 (and I don't have a PC nearly powerful enough to run Oblivion) I'm looking forward to those games.

I just don't understand why anyone would want to pay so much more for a console that that offers so much less.

[Deathwave]

You're right, they do fall pretty much into a very similiar category. Maybe it's just the dirty feeling I get walking out of an EB/Gamestop. I feel like they're taking the industry that I grew up with and pay so much attention to and they're cheapening it somehow. None of the employees ever seem to know what the hell they're talking about, but they act like they do.

They're good for getting that game you really want the very day it comes out, otherwise I try to avoid shopping there. It's probably just me though.

No, it's not just you. That pretty much describes how I feel about them.

[Gorvi]

I just don't understand why anyone would want to pay so much more for a console that that offers so much less.

In terms of the type of games that I'd be looking forward to, the PS3 right now with what's scheduled for release will be offering more. I'm not putting down the 360, I'm just not a huge fan of shooters (unless we're talking about R-Type, Gradius, Contra, etc...). Yes, I know there's more to the 360 library than just that, but the majority of the 'great' games on the system fall under that heading. My tastes tend to lean strongly towards games developed in Japan, not the least of which being JRPG's. the PS3 will have FFXIII and White Knight Story. To me, those are system sellers as much as Gears of War and Halo 3 are to anyone who enjoys their 360.

[Kamalot]

In terms of the type of games that I'd be looking forward to, the PS3 right now with what's scheduled for release will be offering more. I'm not putting down the 360, I'm just not a huge fan of shooters.
I've only ever played two shooters on my 360; Prey and Gears of War. Both are fantastic titles.

Going back through my Gamefly rental history I see:

Enchanted Arms
Dead Rising
Test Drive Unlimited
Chromehounds
Tomb Raider: Legend
Prey
Rockstar Games Presents Table Tennis
Top Spin
Amped 3
Dead or Alive 4
Project Gotham Racing 3
Marvel: Ultimate Alliance
Gears of War
Kameo

That's a whole lot of gaming without a whole lot of shooting...

[Gorvi]

I've only ever played two shooters on my 360; Prey and Gears of War. Both are fantastic titles.

Going back through my Gamefly rental history I see:

Enchanted Arms
Dead Rising
Test Drive Unlimited
Chromehounds
Tomb Raider: Legend
Prey
Rockstar Games Presents Table Tennis
Top Spin
Amped 3
Dead or Alive 4
Project Gotham Racing 3
Marvel: Ultimate Alliance
Gears of War
Kameo

That's a whole lot of gaming without a whole lot of shooting...

Did you miss the part of my post where I said that I knew there were other games? Many of the games you listed are either :
A) Multiplatform
B) Sports or
C) Not games I'm really interested in (DoA, Kameo).

Dead Rising is the only game on that list that I think I'd really miss, along with maybe Chromehounds.

Oh, and Gears of War is a shooter last I checked. :p

On a side note : Kam, why can't you just accept the fact that someone is actually interested in the PS3? I enjoy JRPG's and I don't see that being a very popular genre on the 360. Purchasing a 360 over a PS3 would essentially cut me off from the majority of the games I actually care about.

[Grifter]

On a side note : Kam, why can't you just accept the fact that someone is actually interested in the PS3? I enjoy JRPG's and I don't see that being a very popular genre on the 360. Purchasing a 360 over a PS3 would essentially cut me off from the majority of the games I actually care about.

As of right now (as far as I know) the 360 has more exclusive JRPGs than the PS3 being released this year.

Enchanted Arms
Blue Dragon
Lost Odessey
Eternal Sonata
Far East of Eden Ziria
Spectral Force 3
Cry On

And a few Rumored un announced titles from Konami and more from Mistwalker.

[jeffbax]

I'm as excited for some games like Blue Dragon, Eternal Sonata... dunno about the rest but I'm not going to delude myself - PS3 is going to slap 360 for JRPGs.

Luckily for me, while I enjoy them I like to play a lot more than that :p

[Kamalot]

Did you miss the part of my post where I said that I knew there were other games? Many of the games you listed are either :
A) Multiplatform
B) Sports or
C) Not games I'm really interested in (DoA, Kameo).

Dead Rising is the only game on that list that I think I'd really miss, along with maybe Chromehounds.

Oh, and Gears of War is a shooter last I checked. :p

On a side note : Kam, why can't you just accept the fact that someone is actually interested in the PS3? I enjoy JRPG's and I don't see that being a very popular genre on the 360. Purchasing a 360 over a PS3 would essentially cut me off from the majority of the games I actually care about.
I dunno why you are being judgemental. I just was saying that I haven't found the experience of the Xbox 360 being shooter-centric.

You may not like the games that I've been playing. Why can YOU just accept that people like games on the 360?

[Gorvi]

As of right now (as far as I know) the 360 has more exclusive JRPGs than the PS3 being released this year.

Enchanted Arms
Blue Dragon
Lost Odessey
Eternal Sonata
Far East of Eden Ziria
Spectral Force 3
Cry On

And a few Rumored un announced titles from Konami and more from Mistwalker.

Enchanted Arms looked pretty awful and Blue Dragon seems way too 'My First RPG' to be very interesting. I just took a few minutes to look into the others, and the developers attatched to the products don't exactly thrill me. That doesn't mean that they can't be good games, there's just not much basis to look forward to them (yet). I know Tri-Ace has announced that they'll be working on a 360, that alone has me interested.

[Gorvi]

I dunno why you are being judgemental. I just was saying that I haven't found the experience of the Xbox 360 being shooter-centric.

You may not like the games that I've been playing. Why can YOU just accept that people like games on the 360?

I do accept there are games people like on the 360. Quite a few of them. I've never said the 360 doesn't have any good games, just none that appeal to me specifically enough to purchase the console.

[Kamalot]

Blue Dragon seems way too 'My First RPG' to be very interesting.
Ha! What a superficial remark! Some of the greatest names in RPG development are working on Blue Dragon. Yet when it comes to the other games you say, "the developers attatched to the products don't exactly thrill me".

So a game that DOES have the big-name developers, artists and musicians on it gets a thumbs down because it looks kiddy?

Why don't we agree that Final Fantasy looks like nothing more than angst-ridden androgynous whiners? :rolleyes:

[Grifter]

I do accept there are games people like on the 360. Quite a few of them. I've never said the 360 doesn't have any good games, just none that appeal to me specifically enough to purchase the console.

So in other words you want a PS3 because it's a PS3 and are only interested in FF.

I agree that White Knight Story looks cool but from the one trailer we saw on it doesn't scream best RPG ever. For some one who supposedly loves JRPGs so much to discount Blue Dragon, Eternal Sonata and Lost Oddessey so quickly tells me that games may have less to do with your opinion than you want people to believe.

Enchanted Arms is by no means the greatest JRPG ever, hell it's not even in the top 10 but I thought it was fun and better than a lot of the JRPGs I played on the PS2.

[Gorvi]

Ha! What a superficial remark! Some of the greatest names in RPG development are working on Blue Dragon. Yet when it comes to the other games you say, "the developers attatched to the products don't exactly thrill me".

So a game that DOES have the big-name developers, artists and musicians on it gets a thumbs down because it looks kiddy?

Why don't we agree that Final Fantasy looks like nothing more than angst-ridden androgynous whiners? :rolleyes:

Really? Mistwalker is full of some real RPG vets, are they? Sakaguchi and Uemetsu may be parts of the studio, but they don't do everything. There's nothing wrong with Blue Dragon's art or music. It's the gameplay. the underlying systems. From the reviews that I've read it doesn't seem like anything I'd buy regardless of if it was on a system I own. Here's a few examples of some good RPG's released recently so maybe you can get some kind of an idea what I'm talking about : Valkyrie Profile 2 : Silmeria, the Shadow Hearts series, Grandia III, Suikoden V, Final Fantasy XII, Disgaea (1 & 2), Xenosaga (1 & 3), Contact, Growlanser Generations, Dragon Quest 8, Dark Cloud (1 & 2), Fire Emblem (series), and Paper Mario. If we see games like those on the 360, I'll be interested

[Gorvi]

So in other words you want a PS3 because it's a PS3 and are only interested in FF.

I agree that White Knight Story looks cool but from the one trailer we saw on it doesn't scream best RPG ever. For some one who supposedly loves JRPGs so much to discount Blue Dragon, Eternal Sonata and Lost Oddessey so quickly tells me that games may have less to do with your opinion than you want people to believe.

With White Knight Story, it's developed by Level 5, who have had an amazing track record so far. Hell, Rogue Galaxy (out later this month) has the potential to be the best RPG released this year. I'm not discounting Eternal Sonata and Lost Odessey, I'm just saying that the developers don't have a track record that would make me really look forward to them. They very well may end up being great games, we just have to wait and see. Regarding Blue Dragon, I just haven't really liked what I've read in reviews about the game. It sounds good, it just doesn't sound like a game that would sell a system for me.

[Kamalot]

Hell, Rogue Galaxy (out later this month) has the potential to be the best RPG released this year.
Ugh. I played the demo of Rouge Galaxy and found it to be a muddy, convoluted pile of dung.

[Kamalot]

With White Knight Story, it's developed by Level 5, who have had an amazing track record so far. Hell, Rogue Galaxy (out later this month) has the potential to be the best RPG released this year. I'm not discounting Eternal Sonata and Lost Odessey, I'm just saying that the developers don't have a track record that would make me really look forward to them. They very well may end up being great games, we just have to wait and see. Regarding Blue Dragon, I just haven't really liked what I've read in reviews about the game. It sounds good, it just doesn't sound like a game that would sell a system for me.
I'm going to agree with Grifter. You like PS3 cause it is a PS3. The Xbox 360 is FULL of good games with a ton in the pipeline. I'm sorry you are so set on NOT experiencing them fully.

[Gorvi]

I'm going to agree with Grifter. You like PS3 cause it is a PS3. The Xbox 360 is FULL of good games with a ton in the pipeline. I'm sorry you are so set on NOT experiencing them fully.

Yep, ya got me man. I'm a total fanboy only interested in the PS3 because it's the PS3. The name actually hypnotizes me when I look at it too long, but that's ok, it's peaceful. I really don't like fun, I enjoy buying a console based solely on the name. :rolleyes:

[hoopchi]

Let's face it, we are all different. I love my 360 and can't see how anyone would want to miss out on all the great things it does for me. I use it all the time even if I'm not gaming. But I can see where you are coming from. I swore off ever buying a PS2 again after 3 of them things crapped out on me. And I didn't and really didn't miss anything because nothing in the PS2 lineup appealed to me. And then Shadow of the Colossus came out. I reneged and bought a new PS2 just for that game. If a system has games that appeal to you, that is the system you need to get. If you don't like the lineup coming, leave it be. It's really all about the games. Right now, I can't understand how anyone would want a PS3. But that is from my perspective. I can't see one game coming for it in the next 6 months that I care 2 cents about. I guess when Shadow 2 hits, I'll be there. :o

[fitbabits]

I'm beginning to hear some worrying rumors coming out of Sony where PS3 stock is concerned. Without going in to any great detail at the moment (I'll post when/if what I'm hearing gets substantiated), there is a surplus of PS3s in some parts of the country and (assuming what I'm hearing is true) there is a valid, though decidedly odd, reason for this.

[Grifter]

I'm beginning to hear some worrying rumors coming out of Sony where PS3 stock is concerned. Without going in to any great detail at the moment (I'll post when/if what I'm hearing gets substantiated), there is a surplus of PS3s in some parts of the country and (assuming what I'm hearing is true) there is a valid, though decidedly odd, reason for this.

Damn it man! now you have me curious. You should post it in the forums as rumor or PM me the decidedly odd reasons.

[Sandman]

I'm beginning to hear some worrying rumors coming out of Sony where PS3 stock is concerned. Without going in to any great detail at the moment (I'll post when/if what I'm hearing gets substantiated), there is a surplus of PS3s in some parts of the country and (assuming what I'm hearing is true) there is a valid, though decidedly odd, reason for this.

Damn teasing bastard...where's part 2 and 3 of your series?

[JimmyDanger]

Yep, ya got me man. I'm a total fanboy only interested in the PS3 because it's the PS3. The name actually hypnotizes me when I look at it too long, but that's ok, it's peaceful. I really don't like fun, I enjoy buying a console based solely on the name. :rolleyes:


1. The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion 9.2 94.3%
2. Gears of War 8.7 94.1%
3. Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter 8.8 91.2%
4. Call of Duty 2 8.8 90.1%
5. Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Vegas 8.4 89.4%
6. Geometry Wars: Retro Evolved 8.2 89.1%
7. Burnout Revenge 8.5 88.8%
8. Project Gotham Racing 3 8.6 88.5%
9. Dead or Alive 4 8.0 85.8%
10. Viva Pinata 7.7 85.6%

Well that's the top 10 games in terms of quality on 360 according to gamerankings right there.

That's a bit of fun right there. It was good to see that much (almost entirely exclusive) quality released on other consoles over a 12 month period - well the DS anyway.

I know you're able to convince yourself that you're an objective, nonbiased gamer - but really - 6 or so exclusive JRPGS for 360 over the next 12 months (which amazingly all don't seem to appeal to you) versus FFXIII in 2 years time (and WhiteKnight in the next 12 months or so) - doesn't scream - JRPG fan.

So there are still JRPGS coming out on PS2 you wanna play? You have a PS2 right? Does that nulllify the fact that there are exclusive quality ones on 360?
They all just "don't appeal" to you. Blue Dragon? As stated you'd prefer a "classic" like Dark Cloud...

That's fair enough man - each to his own. I don't begrudge you your preferences. Celebrate diversity and all. But don't cry wolf when people start to label you a fanboy. I mean you're the only person I've seen on the trons for at least a year who feels it necessary to display their FFXI status - (in light of many better, more expansive, more played MMORPG's released in the years since FFXI) - sort of makes it look like you're flying the flag for fandom pretty high.

(Sheitt - Frank Miller did the best Daredevil ever - and as much as I love the character, and follow his current creative teams- I'll still check out Miller's other stuff. Be it comedy (Tales To Offend) or mainstream superheroics (DKSA) - as an appreciator of the artist who created some of the finest crafted tales, I'm always interested to try out what directions he's taking. The fact you don't feel compelled to check out Blue Dragon, a new direction from not only the creator of FF, but the composer of the most replayed (except for possibly SMB) game themes of all time - while being a proclaimed FF fan, makes me wonder whether you are really about the games - or the brandnames.

[Kamalot]

1. The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion 9.2 94.3%
2. Gears of War 8.7 94.1%
3. Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter 8.8 91.2%
4. Call of Duty 2 8.8 90.1%
5. Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Vegas 8.4 89.4%
6. Geometry Wars: Retro Evolved 8.2 89.1%
7. Burnout Revenge 8.5 88.8%
8. Project Gotham Racing 3 8.6 88.5%
9. Dead or Alive 4 8.0 85.8%
10. Viva Pinata 7.7 85.6%

Well that's the top 10 games in terms of quality on 360 according to gamerankings right there.

That's a bit of fun right there. It was good to see that much (almost entirely exclusive) quality released on other consoles over a 12 month period - well the DS anyway.

I know you're able to convince yourself that you're an objective, nonbiased gamer - but really - 6 or so exclusive JRPGS for 360 over the next 12 months (which amazingly all don't seem to appeal to you) versus FFXIII in 2 years time (and WhiteKnight in the next 12 months or so) - doesn't scream - JRPG fan.

So there are still JRPGS coming out on PS2 you wanna play? You have a PS2 right? Does that nulllify the fact that there are exclusive quality ones on 360?
They all just "don't appeal" to you. Blue Dragon? As stated you'd prefer a "classic" like Dark Cloud...

That's fair enough man - each to his own. I don't begrudge you your preferences. Celebrate diversity and all. But don't cry wolf when people start to label you a fanboy. I mean you're the only person I've seen on the trons for at least a year who feels it necessary to display their FFXI status - (in light of many better, more expansive, more played MMORPG's released in the years since FFXI) - sort of makes it look like you're flying the flag for fandom pretty high.

(Sheitt - Frank Miller did the best Daredevil ever - and as much as I love the character, and follow his current creative teams- I'll still check out Miller's other stuff. Be it comedy (Tales To Offend) or mainstream superheroics (DKSA) - as an appreciator of the artist who created some of the finest crafted tales, I'm always interested to try out what directions he's taking. The fact you don't feel compelled to check out Blue Dragon, a new direction from not only the creator of FF, but the composer of the most replayed (except for possibly SMB) game themes of all time - while being a proclaimed FF fan, makes me wonder whether you are really about the games - or the brandnames.
Way to call it. But, at least he's starting to come clean. The first step is admission.

Yep, ya got me man. I'm a total fanboy only interested in the PS3 because it's the PS3. The name actually hypnotizes me when I look at it too long, but that's ok, it's peaceful. I really don't like fun, I enjoy buying a console based solely on the name.

I am VERY interested in Final Fantasy XIII, but it MAY BE coming out in late 2008, maybe even later! Between now and then, there will be PLENTY of gaming for me on the 360 and Wii. When the English version of Final Fantasy is released, i'll give it a shot. It may convince me that paying for a PS3 would be worth it. In fact, the PS3 may have a price drop between now and then, so I'll be getting the game I want at a reduced cost. The main fact is that it isn't available today, or even this year, while a shitton of content IS available for the 360 and Wii with more coming every day.

[bean19]

Ugh. I played the demo of Rouge Galaxy and found it to be a muddy, convoluted pile of dung.

Give it another shot at retail through Gamefly. It is going to be something special. :)

[Disgustipated]

Give it another shot at retail through Gamefly. It is going to be something special. :)

Nobody believes you, you god forsaken emo.

:o

[Kamalot]

Give it another shot at retail through Gamefly. It is going to be something special. :)
If it is as 'special' as anything on the demo disc, it can stay on the short bus, I don't want it. I like the art direction, and I like that there are no load times between battles. I hated the characters, their attitude, their complaining and the mindless battles. The texture work for the jungle village was sickeningly saturated, I couldn't tell where I was going most of the time cause the textures for foreground and background elements blended together. The menu system was equally convoluted and cumbersome.

I'm sure it appeals to those who only have a PS2 and have hundreds of hours to waste on a lame game.

I've got better games to play.

[31 Flavas]

Geez close to 2 million in the US alone? Guess I was right after all and Evil was wrong again :P

If these are worldwide numbers they're not as impressive.

[Kamalot]

If these are worldwide numbers they're not as impressive.
According to the original post..."2 million 360's and 1.8 million Wii's were sold in North America"

Sounds like N America to me. I wonder what the rest of the world is looking like for 360/Wii/PS3 numbers.

[Evil Avatar]

I think it is pretty amazing how two of the three systems SOLD more units than they SHIPPED.

[Kamalot]

I think it is pretty amazing how two of the three systems SOLD more units than they SHIPPED.
Really? Do you have sold vs shipped numbers?

Curious minds want to know! :D

[BlackPete]

I'm beginning to hear some worrying rumors coming out of Sony where PS3 stock is concerned. Without going in to any great detail at the moment (I'll post when/if what I'm hearing gets substantiated), there is a surplus of PS3s in some parts of the country and (assuming what I'm hearing is true) there is a valid, though decidedly odd, reason for this.

What, that the surplus came from failed ebayers? We knew that already ;)
Now let's see if that'll trick fits into spilling the beans...

[Evil Avatar]

Geez close to 2 million in the US alone? Guess I was right after all and Evil was wrong again :P

If these are worldwide numbers they're not as impressive.

Don't hold your breath for my being wrong. Nintendo themselves said that they were not going to ship over 1 Million Wii systems to the USA by the end of December and we all know that Sony revised their launch numbers from 300,000 units down to 175,000 units.

How do you sell 1.8 Million systems if you didn't even ship a million?
How can you sell 750,000 systems if you didn't even ship 300,000?

If I had to guess, it sounds like it is finally starting to show that NPD doesn't track ANY of the large retailers. (Including Best Buy, Walmart, Target, EB & Gamestop.) It sounds like they are so out of the loop now that they are just making numbers up.

This is also based off a CNBC video report and it wouldn't be unusual for television reporters to confuse worldwide numbers with north american numbers. Accuracy isn't their strong point.

Edit: The video also has the headline. "NPD Group Estimates Wii's November Sales more than double the PS3." so CNBC is going off the launch numbers and then trying to spin it out like more systems were shipped on a regular basis, which we know didn't happen.

[UglyPimp]

I'm beginning to hear some worrying rumors coming out of Sony where PS3 stock is concerned. Without going in to any great detail at the moment (I'll post when/if what I'm hearing gets substantiated), there is a surplus of PS3s in some parts of the country and (assuming what I'm hearing is true) there is a valid, though decidedly odd, reason for this.

Please have them take this excess stock and deliver it to the California Bay Area. I hate living in silicon valley where people line up to buy a new motherboard at Fry's, much less a new game console. I barely can find 360's anymore stocked at most stores.

[Johan]

I'm beginning to hear some worrying rumors coming out of Sony where PS3 stock is concerned. Without going in to any great detail at the moment (I'll post when/if what I'm hearing gets substantiated), there is a surplus of PS3s in some parts of the country and (assuming what I'm hearing is true) there is a valid, though decidedly odd, reason for this.

Yeah...people aren't buying the damn thing! :D

[BlackPete]

If I had to guess, it sounds like it is finally starting to show that NPD doesn't track ANY of the large retailers. (Including Best Buy, Walmart, Target, EB & Gamestop.) It sounds like they are so out of the loop now that they are just making numbers up.

One thing I wondered about is whether they track the number of returns as well as sales? I'd say that they should deduct that from the sales to give a more accurate figure.

[Kamalot]

Don't hold your breath for my being wrong. Nintendo themselves said that they were not going to ship over 1 Million Wii systems to the USA by the end of December and we all know that Sony revised their launch numbers from 300,000 units down to 175,000 units.
From what I understood, Nintendo retracted the statement that they would ship a million units. That does not mean that they DIDN'T ship a million units, or that they COULDN'T ship a million units. It simply means they pulled that part of the statement from the press release. We need an official press statement from Nintendo stating how many have been sold.

I don't know WHY they would try and keep it a mystery though, unless mystery is part of building hype.

I also didn't know that Sony cut their launch numbers AGAIN. I thought they were going to have 4 million in people's homes by the end of the year and that 'everything was on track.'

I'll see what links I can find for both of these. Either way, I wish we had a better accounting of systems sold, kinda like Japan and their weekly numbers.

[Kamalot]

Sony revised their launch numbers from 300,000 units down to 175,000 units.
Do you have a link for this?

The only news I can find says Sony is right on target with PS3 shipments. The article is only around 3 weeks old.

The Japanese electronics giant still expects 2 million units of the new video game console to ship by the end of December and 6 million by the end of March. (http://money.cnn.com/2006/12/13/news/companies/sony_sales/index.htm?postversion=2006121322)

So... obviously, the surplus of PS3s in stores is a result of Sony shipping the 2 million units before the end of the year, right? ;)

[31 Flavas]

Yeah...people aren't buying the damn thing! :DThere is a Fry's Electronics near me where their PS3 units weren't selling, so the put up handwritten (letter sized) signs on their front doors, "PS3 IS IN STOCK!"

And they're still not sold out.

[fitbabits]

Damn teasing bastard...where's part 2 and 3 of your series?
They're coming. I'm going to change the format of the articles so that I don't ruffle as many feathers and/or get called a slobbering fanboy who's only interest is to see Sony ruined.

[Johan]

They're coming. I'm going to change the format of the articles so that I don't ruffle as many feathers and/or get called a slobbering fanboy who's only interest is to see Sony ruined.

You KNOW that won't make too terribly much of a difference, don't you? To a fanboy, negative information, regardless of source or integrity, has to be attacked...so you'll be attacked! :(

Sad but true...

[Yeti2005]

Why can't I find a Wii but the PS3 is everywhere? Not only have I seen PS3 in every single major retail chain (Best Buy, Circuit City, Target, Walmart) but tonight I saw two people returning PS3s (most likely ebayers). Wiis on the other hand are harder to find than those pesky snipe :)

[fitbabits]

You KNOW that won't make too terribly much of a difference, don't you? To a fanboy, negative information, regardless of source or integrity, has to be attacked...so you'll be attacked! :(

Sad but true...
I'm fully prepared to be attacked or challenged by a vocal section of the EvAv community, but I'm hoping to cut some of the chatter by being a little more transparent with parts two and three.

Besides, I welcome it. How one reacts to criticism of their work is a telling factor in how one can grow as a person.

[Evil Avatar]

Do you have a link for this?



It was something that was announced right on launch day, that they didn't even make the 300,000 units and that estimates were that they only shippped 175,000 units to the USA. I'm sure if you go back through news items we posted on or right after launch day you will find it.

[Kamalot]

I'm fully prepared to be attacked or challenged by a vocal section of the EvAv community, but I'm hoping to cut some of the chatter by being a little more transparent with parts two and three.

Besides, I welcome it. How one reacts to criticism of their work is a telling factor in how one can grow as a person.
Well, I for one appreciated your work. I know the same feeling though. I spent a LOT of time scouring lists of exclusives once to make the grandaddy of all exclusive lists. Then, I opened it up for suggestions. Pages and pages went by with people claiming to understand my motives, tearing into me because they didn't like the data.

Look, I'm willing to debate facts, information, data, even opinions. But why insult the bearer of news?

I await your following articles with bated breath.

[Kamalot]

It was something that was announced right on launch day, that they didn't even make the 300,000 units and that estimates were that they only shippped 175,000 units to the USA. I'm sure if you go back through news items we posted on or right after launch day you will find it.


Ahh. I suppose I was mistaken. I was under the impression that analysts and bean-counters estimated the actual launch numbers to be less than 200,000 instead of Sony's official numbers (closer to a million).

I'll have to go back and refresh my memory.

Edit:

This is the kind of talk I remember prior to the PS3 launch.

http://www.joystiq.com/2006/11/14/analyst-sony-will-miss-ps3-launch-targets/

Evidence is beginning to mount that Sony will not be able to meet its target of 400,000 systems for the U.S. PS3 launch this Friday. First, Electronic Arts CFO Loren Jensen shared his belief that Sony's numbers were exaggerated. Then Gamestop announced they would not be able to fill all their PS3 pre-orders, at least not at launch. Now an analyst at Lazard Capital Market has added his voice to the fray, saying he expects only 150,000 - 200,000 PS3 systems to be available on launch day.

While Sony hasn't officially announced any product flow problems (and hasn't yet responded to a request for comment from Joystiq), this public speculation from three respected sources, along with anecdotal evidence from numerous retail employees who have contacted Joystiq, is starting to make us wonder. So while nothing is confirmed yet, don't be surprised if your launch day hunt for a PS3, pre-order or no, is a little harder than you expected.


I still can't find ANY official statements from Sony cutting back launch numbers below 400,000 units for the USA (cut back from a million, cut back from 2 million, cut back from 4 million). Can anyone confirm?

[bapenguin]

The PS3 numbers were never official but there was an analyst estimate like 2 days before launch that said 150-200,000 available instead of 400,000. THen the Launch Day numbers came out the week after and I believe they sold 130,000 or something like that. It wasn't even 175,000 at launch.

[Jack B]

Here was a post I made back in this thread, Microsoft Sells 8 Million, On Track for 10 (http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22141&page=1&pp=40&highlight=million)

I thought they were going to have a 10 million lead on NOV 17th. Mission failed ;)

True. Although, it appears that price point does matter.

If this were a football game, it would look a bit more like a defensive struggle than a shootout. I think an 8 or 9 million lead looks pretty good at this point. Remember, back when Microsoft made that prediction the PS3 was supposed to ship about 4 to 6 million units by the end of 2006. In that scenario it was supposed to be maybe:

End of 2007 expectations at E3 2006

360 - 10-12 million units
PS3 - 4 to 6 million units
A 4 to 8 million unit lead.

Now it looks like...

360 9-10 million units
PS3 1 million units
An 8 or 9 million unit lead

Yeah, Microsoft missed, but so did Sony. Sony missed by much more. Not only in terms of units sold, but in terms of overall demand and demand vs the 360 and Wii. eBay units are in some cases being sold for less than retail plus tax. If that's the demand now 2 weeks before Xmas, then won't PS3's be sitting on shelves in January even if they can ship them?

The PS3 may not be flying off shelves in January... That's my take on the situation.

The article above from Dec 8th, stated 6 million 360's at the end of September. Add another 2 million for November thru Dec 25th, throw in a few more between Xmas and New Years, add about 200-400k for October and you have about 9 million.

And I definitely still believe the PS3's won't be flying off the shelves in January.

[mister_slim]

From what I understood, Nintendo retracted the statement that they would ship a million units. That does not mean that they DIDN'T ship a million units, or that they COULDN'T ship a million units. It simply means they pulled that part of the statement from the press release. We need an official press statement from Nintendo stating how many have been sold.

I don't know WHY they would try and keep it a mystery though, unless mystery is part of building hype.
I think Nintendo's waiting until everyone has recovered from the holidays and a press release will actually get some press attention.

[Taran Wanderer]

Please have them take this excess stock and deliver it to the California Bay Area. I hate living in silicon valley where people line up to buy a new motherboard at Fry's, much less a new game console. I barely can find 360's anymore stocked at most stores.

The Fry's I went to in Campbell had PS3's this weekend. Of course, they also were selling bundles, so that's probably why.
The San Jose Hillsdale Best Buy also had a bunch Sunday afternoon when I went to pick up R6 Vegas for $39.99. I think you just need to wake up earlier in the morning :)

[theguido]

I know you're able to convince yourself that you're an objective, nonbiased gamer - but really - 6 or so exclusive JRPGS for 360 over the next 12 months (which amazingly all don't seem to appeal to you) versus FFXIII in 2 years time (and WhiteKnight in the next 12 months or so) - doesn't scream - JRPG fan.



Look, speaking as a JRPG fan myself, if you could only buy one of the two consoles, over the long term it's pretty obvious that you have to go with the PS3, because it's a pretty darn safe bet that whatever console FFXIII is on (which in this case is the PS3) is going to be where most of the major/important RPG's are going to go. The way that the fanbases work out, it's just a smart decision to assume that in the future that's the way it's going to be. Obviously it's not that way now because of the fact that the PS3 has been out a month but just the fact that FFXIII is going to be on it will mean that people who like those sorts of games are going to lean towards getting that system, and thus publishers will focus their efforts there.

It's the same for the 360. If you want to make an awesome tactical squad-based shooter, the 360 is the way to go because games of that type have generally sold pretty well, so it's a pretty safe bet that games of that type will continue to sell in the future.

Now, my brother has a 360 so I don't have to make a decision, but if I had to choose one or the other, as a JRPG fan I'd have to say the PS3 is going to be the better choice over the long haul.

[ECM]

1. The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion 9.2 94.3%
2. Gears of War 8.7 94.1%
3. Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter 8.8 91.2%
4. Call of Duty 2 8.8 90.1%
5. Tom Clancy's Rainbow Six Vegas 8.4 89.4%
6. Geometry Wars: Retro Evolved 8.2 89.1%
7. Burnout Revenge 8.5 88.8%
8. Project Gotham Racing 3 8.6 88.5%
9. Dead or Alive 4 8.0 85.8%
10. Viva Pinata 7.7 85.6%


Note to MS fanboys beating up on Gorvi (who may or may not be part of the SDF): that list right there pretty much cements why (outside of, perhaps, VP) the reason why I think buying a 360 at launch was a complete waste of money. In fact, up until I get my hands on the final, English, Lost Planet, I consider the 360 an utter waste of time and money.

The point is, you don't have to be a card-carrying member of the SDF to think that the games just aren't there (unless you enjoy rehashes and sequels--in which case, you're covered in spades.) I'm beginning to think those you casting fanboy stones are, yourselves, fanboys of a Redmond stripe (go figure: MS fanboys on EvAv...)

Note: I have a PS3 and consider it as big a waste of cash as the 360 and likely figure it'll stay that way till at least VF5 (though I will say that BRD movies are very nice.)

Note 2: favorite 'consoles' right now? DS and PC.

[thenefariousone]

Note to MS fanboys beating up on Gorvi (who may or may not be part of the SDF): that list right there pretty much cements why (outside of, perhaps, VP) the reason why I think buying a 360 at launch was a complete waste of money. In fact, up until I get my hands on the final, English, Lost Planet, I consider the 360 an utter waste of time and money.

The point is, you don't have to be a card-carrying member of the SDF to think that the games just aren't there (unless you enjoy rehashes and sequels--in which case, you're covered in spades.) I'm beginning to think those you casting fanboy stones are, yourselves, fanboys of a Redmond stripe (go figure: MS fanboys on EvAv...)

Note: I have a PS3 and consider it as big a waste of cash as the 360 and likely figure it'll stay that way till at least VF5 (though I will say that BRD movies are very nice.)

Note 2: favorite 'consoles' right now? DS and PC.

I'm not on either side of this debate, but I can't help noticing the irony in your own words. One one hand - the xbox is full of "rehashes and sequels" yet you're looking forward to...VF5...

The reality is the majority of games that people are looking forward to on both platforms are "sequels and rehashes".

[JimmyDanger]

The point is, you don't have to be a card-carrying member of the SDF to think that the games just aren't there (unless you enjoy rehashes and sequels--in which case, you're covered in spades.) I'm beginning to think those you casting fanboy stones are, yourselves, fanboys of a Redmond stripe (go figure: MS fanboys on EvAv...)
.

I'm a fanboy of MS and Nintendo at the moment. Once upon a time I was an Atari and Commodore fan, another time - a Sega and Nintendo fan, another - a Sony and Sega fan. I go where the games are.

The point of the GameRankings 10 highest ranked 360 list wasn't to point out that there wasn't a JRPG amongst them (only one RPG at the top - superior to most JRPG's of the last decade) - or even the abundance of shooting and driving games - but that after 12 months there are that many highly rated across the board (not even counting "must have" favourites of many - including Dead Rising - but we know how a few skewed negative "reviews" can skew the percentage count of GR rankings massively - I still remember a "Christian Gamer web magazine" giving Ninja Gaiden a %50 because - it was a perfect game, but it's storylines demons and devils were antichristian and couldn't be recommended) games are already out there, and for a launch 12 months, an incredibly good overall quality of titles.

My point wasn't that 360 will be the JRPG king this generation. My point was - that with the quality JRPG's due out in the next 18 months (Blue Dragon, Lost Odyssey, Trusty Bell etc.) before FFXIII, that are exclusive to 360 (with no other major PS3 titles except for White Knight on the immediate, 12 month horizon), in addition to the diversity and quality of titles out now for 360 - to say that "there's no reason to buy a 360" doesn't really qualify you in "gamer" status. More casual - or as I suggested, a random hardcore observer is likely to say "fanboy".

As a gamer - I've always craved new experiences, that's why I put down Mario Kart for Wipeout and Killer Instinct for Tekken. Ever since, as a youngling - I first plugged into the cyber reality skilltesting brain massaging that is videogaming, I've needed more.

I've bought launch systems for slim ranges of titles in the first 12 months since the year dot, (and the March06 release in Aus probly helped ) - but I've been impressed with the titles 360 have brought out so far. A capcom exclusive new IP in the first 9 months. That pushes and polishes the boundaries of the next gen. Nice. Haven't seen that since - DMC1?

I've not intended to "bash" Gorvi - or anyone, or state - "I'm more hardcore than..." in anyway, and apologies if anything came across that way - but the fact is that the reason I come and post on Evil Avatar is that, as a site, and as an older gamer with a bit of perspective, I generally enjoy the conversations. Gorvi - buddy, I was trying to point out that there has been a good first 12 months of titles for 360. Please don't take it as some kind of malicious bash because that's certainly not intended. Just that coming from someone displaying FFXI stats - to deny this fact or say "there's nothing for me" , when clearly ther'ell be more Western JRPGS for 360 than PS3 in the next 12 months - it may seem, to the casual (for whom FF/JRPG's make up less than 1/4 of the pie of gaming goodness) or even hardcore gamer (own must own at all games), may come across as a fanboyish response.

Peace.

[shnastybiznastic]

A true fan of the JRPG genere would probably go ahead and invest in a DS Lite.

[Gorvi]

Jimmy, I understand what you're saying. I think there's one point though that I didn't really make all that clear : I only plan on purchasing one 'next gen' console this time around. I really feel that I wasted my money by purchasing all 3 last time around. What I'm trying to get across is that there isn't enough on the 360 that appeals to me to justify abandoning the franchises that I've enjoyed over the past few years. That's all. I'm sure I'd enjoy some of the games that have been listed, some quite a bit. But they're not enough to pull me away from the system that I feel will have the bulk of the content that is more important to me in the long run. Would I love to own a 360? You bet, there's definately good gaming to be had there. With a son on the way though, I simply can't justify spending $1,250 on game consoles. One (and most likely a Wii later this year) is going to have to do it for me. I know I'll be missing out on some gems by not buying a 360, but it's something I'll have to deal with. That being said, after a price drop and maybe some gift certificates next xmas, I may own a 360 for those games that I've been missing out on, so you may yet see me on XBL, just not this year.

And Shnasty, I own a DS Lite and I really look forward to some of the games that have been announced for it. This should be a great year for both portables. :)

[phantomhitman]

my console is better than yours!!!

[shnastybiznastic]

I own a DS Lite and I really look forward to some of the games that have been announced for it. This should be a great year for both portables.
Amen. I've been noticing this trend since the release of pokemon on the gameboy. More and more developers are realising that they can cast off the rising costs of art directors involved in graphically intensive games while still creating something with both artistic merit and fun factor. Oh yeah, and make money hand over fist. I love some consoles, but portables are where it's at nowadays.

[Chalex]

NPD said the numbers aren't theirs:

http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/03/holiday-2006-console-sales-figures-erroneous/

http://biz.gamedaily.com/industry/news/?id=14842

[Kamalot]

NPD said the numbers aren't theirs:

http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/03/holiday-2006-console-sales-figures-erroneous/

http://biz.gamedaily.com/industry/news/?id=14842

Iiiiinteresting!

I wonder who stood to gain by faking numbers.

I suppose we'll see what really happened on the 11th of January. Little more than a week away and we can have the same damn argument all over again.

[Chalex]

I wonder who stood to gain by faking numbers.
CNBC apparently.

Too bad it wasn't MSNBC then we could have seen some people get really wound up :p