Yahoo News Asks: Does XBOX LIVE Matter?

[Gorvi]

In an article over at Yahoo News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061221/wr_nm/gaming_microsoft_dc) they analyze the importance of XBOX LIVE to Microsofts overall success with the 360 and XBOX platforms.

Greenberg said that only 10 percent of original Xboxes were connected to the Internet, while more than 50 percent of all Xbox 360s are taken online, proving that the Live community is becoming more inclusive.

While the 50 percent number may be true, what percentage of those are paying Gold members with the ability to participate in multiplayer games online? Is LIVE mostly a tool for the hardcore or does it have the mass appeal that Microsoft wants it to?

[Heretic Machine]

Personally, I know that without XBOX Live Gold, I would basically never turn on my 360. That is how important it is to the experience for me.

[CaptStu]

Hmmm. This is from Gorvi. I wonder what to think abou this.

Personally, Xbox Live got me back into gaming. My previous console was the basic Nintendo from 15 years ago.

[Bishop]

When I had my XBOX I never had any interest in LIVE but now with the 360 I love it. I even went out and bought a Gold Membership just so I could play GoW online and now Splinter Cell: DA, plus looking forward to play many more upcoming titles.

[Venkman]

Xbox live rocks. And when Killer Instinct comes out, it will be the best. :-b

[Kefkataran]

Xbox Live is great as an experience, but honestly some times I'm not sure my gold membership is worth what I'm paying for it. I don't go online often enough, and when I do, too many of the games are broken or buggy or just plain laggy in multiplayer. I use the download/live arcade stuff that I could get access to with just a silver membership much more overall.

[Gorvi]

Hmmm. This is from Gorvi. I wonder what to think abou this.

Personally, Xbox Live got me back into gaming. My previous console was the basic Nintendo from 15 years ago.

I'm personally of the opinion that LIVE is very hardcore centered and a bit overblown in overall importance among a lot of the online community. That being said, if and when I get a 360, I know I'll be a Gold member, I like the benefits it offers. I just don't see it as being as essential as a lot of people seem to. Having played an MMO for quite a while, I can understand the feeling of community, seeing if friends are online, etc....

[Roc Ingersol]

Gold doesn't matter.
But Live Matters(tm).


Who cares whether Joe Six-Pack is playing Rainbow Six:Vegas over Live, if he's buying new themes and arcade games?

So long as you can get to Marketplace and Arcade without a fee, Live is A Big Deal(tm).

[bean19]

Xbox Live is great as an experience, but honestly some times I'm not sure my gold membership is worth what I'm paying for it. I don't go online often enough, and when I do, too many of the games are broken or buggy or just plain laggy in multiplayer. I use the download/live arcade stuff that I could get access to with just a silver membership much more overall.

I agree completely. The features that are part of the Silver package are for more important to me than what you get with the Gold package.

Still, I really want to play some games online. My hope is that more developers will test their games pre-launch (as R6:Vegas and Lost Planet are doing) so that we get kick ass experiences with them from day one.

Also, I hope that the number of games that are awesome to play online will grow. Halo 3 is pretty much a sure thing, but we need more than that.

As far as importance to the system. . . well, I think that Xbox Live keeps people loving the system and buying new games. If you can download and play a killer demo, then you are much more likely to buy the game. Lost Planet is going to be a AAA title instead of just a love-by-hardcore-players, but mostly unknown new IP because of their demos. Likewise, PSU will actually make money (though not a lot of it since the gameplay is the same tired old shit) because the online is done so well.

I don't think that Xbox Live gets people to buy the system. It is hard to sell people on something as esoteric as user experience. It will simply make Xbox owners more happy with their system and more likely to make more purchases. That's important too, but it won't sell many systems.

[bapenguin]

Doesn't matter who's gaming or not, that's not where the meat of the money is coming from. The meat of the money made online is from people buying stuff on Marketplace. That's where we need to see some stats at.

[ldi222]

HALO2 was pretty much the only thing happening on Live on the original Xbox but with 360 the free demo's and trailers are a huge bonus for the more casual gamer that isnt even aware of that yet. Its why their hardcore friends keep saying "ok, You have a 360 now, cool. You *have* to get it online."

[CrashCart]

Xbox Live is great as an experience, but honestly some times I'm not sure my gold membership is worth what I'm paying for it. I don't go online often enough, and when I do, too many of the games are broken or buggy or just plain laggy in multiplayer. I use the download/live arcade stuff that I could get access to with just a silver membership much more overall.Same here. I have a gold membership and the only game I really play online is Uno. I'm sort of addicted to Uno for reasons I can't really understand.. But as none of my friends own a 360 and I don't own any of the really popular online titles, I don't get much else out of my Gold account. In my current situation, I'd prefer more games had excellent local coop/multiplayer for when my buddies come over. Maybe I'm just old fashioned that way. Not that I'm against online gaming, but I'd rather have a fun multiplayer experience with my real life friends. I guess the solution is to convince them all get to 360s.

Then again, I've only got a few EvAv members on my friends list, so maybe I should expand that a bit.

[lockwoodx]

Having to PAY for an online service to be able to get 100% of th content from expensive 60$ games has turned me off to the xbox360 not to mention hardware problems. I'll stick to my PC gaming. (not MMOS)

[phantomhitman]

live is shizzle, that is what they tell me.

[Gorvi]

Doesn't matter who's gaming or not, that's not where the meat of the money is coming from. The meat of the money made online is from people buying stuff on Marketplace. That's where we need to see some stats at.

I don't think that was the focus of the article though. There's no debate that LIVE is a very nice bit of revenue for Microsoft. I saw the article more as asking if LIVE matters to gamers as a selling point in the grand scheme of things. Keeping in mind that we're already seeing demos out for the PS3 and we can only assume that we'll see the same kind of thing for the Wii, as well as downloadable games.

[Vandenh]

It doesn't matter if Live is used or not. This is 2006... people expect to be online and do stuff online. Live is a nice example of what is possible and Microsoft just has to take it further and further. It is quite simple really. It has to work with minimal problems for users, offer something extra and has to be supported by all games. The gold/silver divide is another discussion... maybe in the future MS will change the way that works. I personally would prefer silver people to play online but a big part of the service is based on the fact that online players can be held responsible for their actions and Microsoft needs a Visa card behind all that to enforce this ;)

[Kefkataran]

Doesn't matter who's gaming or not, that's not where the meat of the money is coming from. The meat of the money made online is from people buying stuff on Marketplace. That's where we need to see some stats at.

Truth.

HALO2 was pretty much the only thing happening on Live on the original Xbox but with 360 the free demo's and trailers are a huge bonus for the more casual gamer that isnt even aware of that yet. Its why their hardcore friends keep saying "ok, You have a 360 now, cool. You *have* to get it online."

Agreed, but that stuff's not really related to Gold, unless we're counting the new somewhat annoying trend of letting Gold members access some content earlier.


Then again, I've only got a few EvAv members on my friends list, so maybe I should expand that a bit.

Do it. Some of us EvAvers (like me) get down on some motherfuckin' Uno.

It doesn't matter if Live is used or not. This is 2006... people expect to be online and do stuff online. Live is a nice example of what is possible and Microsoft just has to take it further and further. It is quite simple really. It has to work with minimal problems for users, offer something extra and has to be supported by all games. The gold/silver divide is another discussion... maybe in the future MS will change the way that works. I personally would prefer silver people to play online but a big part of the service is based on the fact that online players can be held responsible for their actions and Microsoft needs a Visa card behind all that to enforce this ;)

1.) yes, people expect online services, but they also don't expect to have to pay more than their normal internet fee to access them.

2.) Has the fact that Gold costs money and requires a credit card at all helped to reduce the number of assholes on Live and games like Gears of War and Halo 2 especially? Not that I've seen...

[rjcc]

you mean reuters, not yahoo news

[Jack B]

I think Live is more for hardcore and less for the casual gamer. It can be a bit intimidating for some. I think Microsoft needs to continue to refine the process for refining the type of people you play against on Live. If they gave you more options for party systems, clans, better filtering of the type of user by rating etc, it would help.

Overall, it's the killer app for me, but I think some are a bit intimidated by competition with strangers and the bad apples deter some from coming back. I hope Microsoft puts in stiffer penalties for bad behavior.

[Reanimated]

Who gives a shit what percentage has Gold? The only thing the people without Gold are missing is the ability to play online. They still get access to everything else on Live with a Silver account.

And honestly, I could almost live without Gold. I hardly ever play anything online anymore.

[Kefkataran]

Overall, it's the killer app for me, but I think some are a bit intimidated by competition with strangers and the bad apples deter some from coming back. I hope Microsoft puts in stiffer penalties for bad behavior.

This would be very nice. Obviously you don't want anything *too* restricting, but right now it seems like there's practically no repurcussions for being an idiot on Live.

[wezlypipz]

Well I just dropped $65 on the wireless adapter, and I plan on dropping another $50 on a Gold card. To me it's all going to be worth it when Lost Planet drops. I cannot wait for some multiplayer!

[Mortis]

Online play is very important to me, especially with the awesome amount of co-op enabled games we are seeing. The ability to communicate with friends regardless of what I am doing or playing, and the ease of jumping into a game with friends via Live is also a plus.

[Pluvious]

For me it DOES matter. No other console is even close to the experience you get with LIVE. I would base which console to buy on that feature alone. Ps3 and Wii just don't get that aspect right at all, and I doubt they EVER will.

On a side note, I've been allowing my yearly LIVE account to continue to renew each year, even though I haven't logged onto my xbox 1 LIVE feature in over 14 months. Why?!.. because I know I'm going to want that account with my 360 and I don't think $50 is not unreasonable for a years worth of access... even if I don't use it.

[Mandafarian]

For me it DOES matter. No other console is even close to the experience you get with LIVE. I would base which console to buy on that feature alone. Ps3 and Wii just don't get that aspect right at all, and I doubt they EVER will.

On a side note, I've been allowing my yearly LIVE account to continue to renew each year, even though I haven't logged onto my xbox 1 LIVE feature in over 14 months. Why?!.. because I know I'm going to want that account with my 360 and I don't think $50 is not unreasonable for a years worth of access... even if I don't use it.

I concur with this.

[Haemorrhage]

For me it DOES matter. No other console is even close to the experience you get with LIVE. I would base which console to buy on that feature alone. Ps3 and Wii just don't get that aspect right at all, and I doubt they EVER will.

On a side note, I've been allowing my yearly LIVE account to continue to renew each year, even though I haven't logged onto my xbox 1 LIVE feature in over 14 months. Why?!.. because I know I'm going to want that account with my 360 and I don't think $50 is not unreasonable for a years worth of access... even if I don't use it.

I couldn't agree more. I renewed my subscription going on my old xbox for like 6 months even though i knew I was barely going to use it to play Halo 2. I knew I was going to be getting a 360 with all the improved Live features, private chat, marketplace...etc.

The last consoles I owned were the Sega Master system and the NES. I played the PS1 occasionally because my roommate had one, but I found myself getting board after 30 minutes or so.

It was PC gaming that filled the void before the xbox. While I love PC gaming, I find online PC gaming a painful experience with hackers/cheaters, trying to find good matches, lack of friend systems, lack of complete consistent voice communication and always needing to upgrade expensive hardware.

Live has taken lots of the crappy things of PC gaming an simplified it. Now with Live 360, it has been raised to a whole new level. I have no issues supporting $59 Canadian a year for an great service. It is only the price of a game. I am married now, have less time and I consider myself a casual gamer now so I don't have time for hardcore PC gaming. I want my online experience to be quick, unified, fun and most off all just work when I get time to play. Live is honestly the only gaming service that can provide me that, so I will happily pay for that.

[TheEpicOfTyler]

I'd never use it Gold enough to justify paying for it. I only play games online now and again. That's why I like what the PS3 is doing with it's network.

[Kefkataran]

On a side note, I've been allowing my yearly LIVE account to continue to renew each year, even though I haven't logged onto my xbox 1 LIVE feature in over 14 months. Why?!.. because I know I'm going to want that account with my 360 and I don't think $50 is not unreasonable for a years worth of access... even if I don't use it.

Umm... I understand wanting Live to be handy when you have a 360 to use it with, but you can re-up your subscription at any time. You basically just said that you don't think spending $50 on nothing is unreasonable. This makes you fucking mad in my book.

[Pluvious]

I knew someone would call me out on that.. hehe.. yes its kinda foolish, (i didn't know about that re-up option..doh) but I don't think that will allow me to keep my old gametag which is somewhat unique.

I meant that $50-$60 is not unreasonable for the service that LIVE provides. But yes, I've wasted that money last year.. oh well. ;)

[Yeti2005]

I'd never use it Gold enough to justify paying for it. I only play games online now and again. That's why I like what the PS3 is doing with it's network.

To me it's worth paying a little bit of money for a great experience vs getting a medicore experience for free. 13 cents a day is not bank breaker for me.

[Kefkataran]

I knew someone would call me out on that.. hehe.. yes its kinda foolish, (i didn't know about that re-up option..doh) but I don't think that will allow me to keep my old gametag which is somewhat unique.

Yes, you can recover your gamertag when signing into your 360 Live account for the first time.

I'm split on whether or not I think $50 a year is worth it or not. I mean, obviously I'm paying it, so on one hand, I must think it's alright. But like I said above, I ocassionally question its worth considering that I don't play online that much. Still, the price could be MUCH steaper, so I'm not complaining.

[Balthasar]

Doesn't matter who's gaming or not, that's not where the meat of the money is coming from. The meat of the money made online is from people buying stuff on Marketplace. That's where we need to see some stats at.
I think if you're looking at that you are answering a different question. The difference is between saying "do gamers care about playing games online" vs "do gamers care about having on-line access?" The latter question, I think, is a resounding yes. I don't think the former question has such a positive answer, though. While Live! has a marketplace where you can download games and demos, I don't feel like this is the main purpose of Live! and so I think it gets away from the question at hand.

[Kefkataran]

To me it's worth paying a little bit of money for a great experience vs getting a medicore experience for free. 13 cents a day is not bank breaker for me.

This implies that all multiplayer experiences that 360 is offering over Xbox Live are "great experiences" rather than "mediocre", like all non-Xbox Live multiplayer experiences. Neither of these are true, and that's my biggest problems. Too many Xbox Live multiplayer games still have major bugs and lag issues, among other problems, and that's where I really start questioning the cost.

[Pluvious]

Yes, you can recover your gamertag when signing into your 360 Live account for the first time.

I'm split on whether or not I think $50 a year is worth it or not. I mean, obviously I'm paying it, so on one hand, I must think it's alright. But like I said above, I ocassionally question its worth considering that I don't play online that much. Still, the price could be MUCH steaper, so I'm not complaining.

Good to know.. but I think I'm only a few weeks away from finally getting a 360 so its a moot point now. $5 bucks a month?.. are you nuts?.. that's a great deal.. (shh don't tell ***) ;)

[Gorvi]

To me it's worth paying a little bit of money for a great experience vs getting a medicore experience for free. 13 cents a day is not bank breaker for me.

If the PS3 offered a lag filled chat free playing experience, I'd agree with you. Simply because it doesn't allow cross game invites (not a big deal IMO if you're not a big online player) I'd hardly call it a mediocre experience. Of course, I don't have any experience with either platform's online functions as of yet, but the differences to the casual online player don't seem to be that much of a dealbreaker from what I can see.

[Kefkataran]

If the PS3 offered a lag filled chat free playing experience, I'd agree with you. Simply because it doesn't allow cross game invites (not a big deal IMO if you're not a big online player) I'd hardly call it a mediocre experience. Of course, I don't have any experience with either platform's online functions as of yet, but the differences to the casual online player don't seem to be that much of a dealbreaker from what I can see.

I'd also like to throw in here that I wouldn't be surprised to see PS3 offer cross-game invites eventually. I very highly suspect to see their whole online getting a lot more unified as the system grows and gets patched up a bit from the rushed launch. A year from now I'm guessing/hoping that PS3's online will be much more of an Xbox Live competitor than it appears to be currently.

[Metal Jesus]

In my experience, Xbox Live definitely matters to the casual gamer. This is the guy you work with you ownes Halo 2... and maybe only 2 other games... yet all he does is play Halo 2 for hours and hours with his buddies on the weekend.

[EternalGamer]

This article discusses some of the things I have been wondering about myself. Just recently I got broadband and am finally able to enjoy Live and I have to admit, I really like it. But I have serious, serious doubts that the functionality of online gaming matters to the majority of people who buy consoles.

MS was able to get 50% of their current 360 owners to use online at least once, but that doesn't really impress me. If only roughly half of their current userbase uses online at all and this is the more "hardcore" audience, how many of their users are going to be using Live when the 360 hits mainstream prices? I imagine that percentage is just going to continue to drop significantly. And if you looked at how many users actually use Live on a regular basis, I imagine it is much smaller. Of that 50% how many pay for Live Gold? Maybe 20% at most? And of that 20%, how many actually use it on a regular basis. The more you analyze the numbers and MS's focus on online connectivity the more it seems like a lot of sound and fury.

The reason I think this is highly significant is that one of the largest complaints against the PS3 right now is that the functionality is not up to par with Live. And they are right, it isn't even close. But, people are complaining so loud about that, and I think it is something that probably matters to an incredibly small percentage of the console's userbase. It's similar to how alot of the hardcore gamers wouldn't even play w/o component cables hooked to an HDTV now whereas the majority of the population is totally fine with standard RCA cables. Sometimes we really can't see past our own hobbyist enthusiasm.

[Kefkataran]

Hey, I didn't realize you have broadband/Live now, Dan! I'm gonna have to add you and hit up some Uno with you ASAP

[EternalGamer]

Hey, I didn't realize you have broadband/Live now, Dan! I'm gonna have to add you and hit up some Uno with you ASAP


I thought I send you an invite when I got it a couple of weeks ago? I'm visiting relatives right now but will back home next week. I'm definitely down with some Uno. Hopefully I get some Live points for Xmas to buy it with.

[DoubleUranium]

I had a buddy over last night, and we spent the entire night downloading Arcade and regular 360 game demos and checking them out. Xbox Live makes the system for me. We had a blast trying out Assault Heroes, Lost Planet, etc. I'm definitely buying two arcade games this weekend, and Lost Planet is probably a must have now for multiplayer. I think Live is brilliantly executed, and makes the system and its catalog so easily accessible. Sony really needs to step up IMO and match it.

[Balthasar]

Hey, I didn't realize you have broadband/Live now, Dan! I'm gonna have to add you and hit up some Uno with you ASAP
Uno rocks. I never tried this Arcade version of it, though.

[Johan]

Personally, I know that without XBOX Live Gold, I would basically never turn on my 360. That is how important it is to the experience for me.

I'm with you on that one. In fact, I would NEVER have even bought my original Xbox OR the 360 without Live.

It's the secret ingredient that makes the whole meal so yummy! And it's not a secret, either!!! :)

[CptTripps]

1.) yes, people expect online services, but they also don't expect to have to pay more than their normal internet fee to access them.

Man, if your getting a years worth of broadband for 60$ I need to call your provider and dump mine.

[menage]

wrong tread, sorry

[bean19]

Doesn't matter who's gaming or not, that's not where the meat of the money is coming from. The meat of the money made online is from people buying stuff on Marketplace. That's where we need to see some stats at.

A year in and I've bought 500 Microsoft points to try out the downloadable television/movie stuff and to get the Penny Arcade theme. I can't see anything worth buying in sight either. XBLA is a fun diversion, but I can get games of that caliber for free on the PC.

[cp#]

The only thing that would make Live better would be by making the service free. This could possibly happen since Sony is so amped on free online service.

The Live Marketplace on the other hand is a huge turn off for most people who don't want to pay for extras already on their disc

[Yeti2005]

If the PS3 offered a lag filled chat free playing experience, I'd agree with you. Simply because it doesn't allow cross game invites (not a big deal IMO if you're not a big online player) I'd hardly call it a mediocre experience. Of course, I don't have any experience with either platform's online functions as of yet, but the differences to the casual online player don't seem to be that much of a dealbreaker from what I can see.


I'd call what the PS3 has to offer just medicore, average, or status quo because it doesn't offer anything more than bare bones functionality. It's not bad, it's just ok.

You mentioned you're not a big online player so I can definitely see your point. I love to play online with my friends so cross chat and invites it big for me. I like the whole constantly connected community feel. Ah crap now I sound like some marketing person ;)

[TheEpicOfTyler]

To me it's worth paying a little bit of money for a great experience vs getting a medicore experience for free. 13 cents a day is not bank breaker for me.

I'm not the kind of guy who pays $50-60 a year for something I might use 20 times in a year.

[drakkarim]

Personally, I know that without XBOX Live Gold, I would basically never turn on my 360. That is how important it is to the experience for me.

i on the other hand (once i have a 360) will not care one bit about the live thing. especially if it means paying extra fees.

[Kelegacy]

Xbox Live is great as an experience, but honestly some times I'm not sure my gold membership is worth what I'm paying for it. I don't go online often enough, and when I do, too many of the games are broken or buggy or just plain laggy in multiplayer. I use the download/live arcade stuff that I could get access to with just a silver membership much more overall.
I bought a sub just for Gears of War, and haven't used it since or for any other games. It's sort of depressing.

[Lactose]

Does anybody else realize what will happen when you have to choose between buying a game for the xbox360 or ps3? You'll say, ok, which one tracks my achievements and puts them online for everybody to see, and counts towards my total score?

That's the one you'll buy.

[Balthasar]

Does anybody else realize what will happen when you have to choose between buying a game for the xbox360 or ps3? You'll say, ok, which one tracks my achievements and puts them online for everybody to see, and counts towards my total score?
Who the hell thinks that when they buy a game? That sounds like something generated out of the Microsoft PR machine, not a consumer's brain.

[EternalGamer]

Who the hell thinks that when they buy a game? That sounds like something generated out of the Microsoft PR machine, not a consumer's brain.

I am not really that concerned with my gamerscore. A lot of that probably has to do with there not being enough of the style of games I like best on the 360 for me to dive into, but it is also because I'm not all that competitive.

But I do have to admit, though, it's a nice option to have. You always know there will be extra goals for you to shoot for in a given game. And if a game has online co-op, you know it will have voice chat and support message sending, invites, etc. So all other things being equal (though they rarely are), I think I would probably pick up the 360 version over a PS3 version. But I also recognize that I am not the average consumer and that the average consumer probably will never use online functionality of their system and probably pays no attention to "gamerscores."

I sort of wish Nintendo had implimented something similar, especially when it comes to virtual console titles, it would just make replaying through old favorites that much more rewarding. I'm just not that into it on the 360 because there are only so many games I can play where I just spray things with bullets. But give me gamer score with challenges like "beat the original Super Mario Bros without warping" or "complete Super Metriod in under 4 hours" and I'd probably be all over it.

[Jack B]

Who the hell thinks that when they buy a game? That sounds like something generated out of the Microsoft PR machine, not a consumer's brain.

I can see where you'd think that and they are only mildly interesting to me, but the majority seems to like them much more. See this blog and lot's of comments by Hsu on 1up.com, I Heart Achievements (http://www.1up.com/do/blogEntry?bId=7706362&publicUserId=5379799#comments).

It really seems like many people will choose the 360 version just because of achievements.

[Camel]

It really seems like many people will choose the 360 version just because of achievements.
I would absolutely choose the 360 version because of achievements. I was really surprised with myself when I realized I was actually a little disappointed that Wii games don't have them (and since I've recently gotten back into gaming with my PS2, I am disappointed with the lack of achievements there, too! :D ).

I do not care one bit about how high my gaming score is, but there is something about comparing my achievements with other people on my list and just the overall sense of satisfaction you get by "unlocking" achievements that just make the whole system the bees knees in my book.

As far as Live goes, I love it! Having a centralized place to download demos, trailers, etc? AWESOME. As for online play? Eh...I really wish that games like Viva Pinata had a system where you could visit other people's gardens or something like that. I had a lot of fun playing Gears online the first few days after it came out, but I really can't stand playing shooters online with people (outside of friends and some EvAvers, with whom I have unfortunately spent very little time gaming online). I am one of those freaks who never realized it was OK to be an asshole to other people just because I am hidden on the other side of the internet, and sometimes playing jerks online really bums me out. I understand that rating people and other things can help me weed out bad apples, but I can only eat so much rotten fruit. :(

[Wolvie]

Xbox live is for people that are addicted to on-line play. Mostly the ultra hardcore go on live, the kind that thrive on multiplayer competition.

[Pluvious]

SNIP

As far as Live goes, I love it! Having a centralized place to download demos, trailers, etc? AWESOME. As for online play? Eh...I really wish that games like Viva Pinata had a system where you could visit other people's gardens or something like that. I had a lot of fun playing Gears online the first few days after it came out, but I really can't stand playing shooters online with people (outside of friends and some EvAvers, with whom I have unfortunately spent very little time gaming online). I am one of those freaks who never realized it was OK to be an asshole to other people just because I am hidden on the other side of the internet, and sometimes playing jerks online really bums me out. I understand that rating people and other things can help me weed out bad apples, but I can only eat so much rotten fruit. :(

Amen to that! I think that stat of only a small group of xbox owners go online is directly connected to potential of crap (swaring, excessive trash talk, racial hate etc) you run into online with a bunch of random strangers. I know if I had children I would be seriously concerned with the language and such on the headsets. This must factor into the percentage of LIVE users as well.

wow.. did that make sense.. I need to not post when I've been drinking.. bye now. ;)

[51|RandoM]

Without 'net multiplayer via Live Gold, there isn't a 360 game that would hold my attention for more than a day with the notable exception of Viva Pinata.

So yeah, Live Gold is a requirement, imho, not an option.

[Balthasar]

I can see where you'd think that and they are only mildly interesting to me, but the majority seems to like them much more. See this blog and lot's of comments by Hsu on 1up.com, I Heart Achievements (http://www.1up.com/do/blogEntry?bId=7706362&publicUserId=5379799#comments).
I don't doubt that there are people that enjoy achievements, but I think even for people that like them, if they own all three consoles, there are going to be plenty of other things on their list of requirements that need to be meet before something as extraneous as achievements are considered.