"Too Many PS3s" Claims NotifyWire

[fitbabits]

You read it right. NotifyWire, an online sales tracking firm, is claiming that there are simply too many PS3s on the market now that the fervor for Sony's behemoth has died down somewhat.

gamesindustry.biz (http://www.gamesindustry.biz/) has more details right here (http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=21856).

The high price of the PlayStation 3, along with the retail practice of bundling the console with software, has lead to a glut of stock online, claims tracking firm NotifyWire.

The company believes the fervour greeting the console launch has already slowed, with consumers put off by forced software and hardware bundles which in some cases can see the retail price doubled.

"I think we're already at the point where people won't pay a premium for the console or be forced into buying bundles," said Ian Drake, president of NotifyWire.

----------

"Last year we tracked several one thousand dollar Xbox 360 bundles which would sell out in less than two minutes after becoming available." Drake noted a US $1000 PS3 bundle was on offer at an online retailer for over 12 hours recently, claiming, "This sort of thing didn't happen with the Xbox 360 until well after Christmas."
This confirms what I'm beginning to see at retail also - several people have returned their PS3s to the store I'm based at due reasons ranging from "unwanted gift" to "no longer interested in it (which is probably code for 'I tried to hawk it on eBay and nobody wanted it)".

[Vandenh]

People not interested or Sony delivering new units?

IMHO Wii (and lesser extend GoW) has totally stolen the PS3 hype ;) Who would have thought ;)

[Reanimated]

Just the first signs of the struggle ahead for PS3 because of it's high price and low value proposition. Now that people are getting hands-on and are able to make direct comparisons, the PS3 hype train has come to a screeching halt.

[Gorvi]

Well, it's good to hear people aren't buying those retarded bundles. Maybe we'll see them start to go away some time soon.

[bapenguin]

I'm really shocked how many PS3s are on Craigslist. I'm convinced a large chunk of people bought the PS3 with the sole intention of selling it. Shocking I know.

The problem is, right now very few people really want one for the price they are.

*Note * I want one and would gladly pay retail. :)

[tiremfej]

Check eBay, they're nearly selling for retail. It's the Wii that's out of control.

[MSUStud911]

As lukewarm as my feelings are for PS3, if I saw the $500 version sitting on the shelf at Best Buy and I had a few gift cards in my pocket after Christmas, I'd have a hard time not picking it up.

[[VSK]BadCRC]

At the Best Buy I work at, we had one sitting on a shelf for nearly four days. Someone picked it up today finally though.

[Johan]

I'm convinced a large chunk of people bought the PS3 with the sole intention of selling it. Shocking I know.

Consoles are so hard to get at launch that it takes incredible commitment to get one. I don't necessarily view the fact that many people were buying to resell it as a negative against the PS3...I think that's pretty normal. Profit-seekers are pretty motivated, so they'll wait for days in line to make some cash...

What I view as negative is the fact that they're not selling terribly quickly online right now...which is pretty indicative of a cooling in the public's fervor for the machine.

Frankly, I think Sony erred in 'forcing' Blu-ray on consumers; the higher price combined with manufacturing issues generated by Blu-ray component issues has deflated consumer excitement. They're starving the market of consoles while charging too much as well.

Perception often breeds reality. Sony is in danger of suffering a prolonged sluggish growth to their console base, which is already forcing developers to port and/or drop titles on the PS3. This in turn could lead to fewer console sales...the opposite of the virtuous cycle! On the other hand, MS seems to be clearly approaching this virtuous cycle in its base and consistent sales.

Sony's position right now is highly tenuous. They're a capable company, but they have real issues at the moment.

[Kamalot]

I thought Sony said PS3 would sell 5 million units on brand-name alone, without any games available, and that PS3 was already too inexpensive.

[Gorvi]

It'll sell 1) When there's actually games worth owning for it and 2) When it can actually be bought in a store. Sony doesn't have the novelty factor of being the first next gen console out that the 360 had last year, so people are less willing to pay ridiculous prices for it. This is hardly doom and gloom, people are actually exercizing common sense.

[Johan]

This is hardly doom and gloom, people are actually exercizing common sense.

It's not doom and gloom, but it's worse than you make it seem.

As for common sense, with luxury items like a video game console (it's a luxury, as few people can make a case for needing a console as a part of the basic necessities of life), you don't want consumers to use common sense, you want them to desire your product more than they desire to hold onto their money and/or to purchase a cheaper comparable product.

Common sense doesn't help Sony right now; they need better marketing, more games, and a fix to their manufacturing issues.

[roboninja]

It'll sell 1) When there's actually games worth owning for it and 2) When it can actually be bought in a store. Sony doesn't have the novelty factor of being the first next gen console out that the 360 had last year, so people are less willing to pay ridiculous prices for it. This is hardly doom and gloom, people are actually exercizing common sense.
You said it, Gorvi. People are exercising common sense and not buying the PS3. I thought the public was more sheep-like than that. Good show people!

[MSUStud911]

Sony will simply respond with a statement trying to make chicken salad out of chicken shit. At some point Sony's arrogance has to give way to appeasing the consumers and lowering the obscene price of the PS3. Still, they're obviously hard pressed to do that with the big loss they're already taking on each machine. It's an untenable position for sure. I feel like the real problem with the PS3 is the Blu Ray drive. It's the source of manufacturing delays AND the high price.

[Roc Ingersol]

BadCRC']At the Best Buy I work at, we had one sitting on a shelf for nearly four days. Someone picked it up today finally though.
Yeah, there were three just hanging out on a shelf at my local Best Buy when I was out christmas shopping the other day. And I've heard similar anecdotes from my friends.

Sounds like some serious ebay-backlash to me.
Ebayers bought em all up, and marked em all up - gamers decided they couldn't lay hands on one for under $800, so they gave up. Ebayers failed to sell, so they returned the units. But nobody is expecting them in stock, so they're not even looking.

[Gorvi]

You said it, Gorvi. People are exercising common sense and not buying the PS3. I thought the public was more sheep-like than that. Good show people!

Right now it doesn't make sense for people to buy a PS3 for games. Like I said before, it lacks the novelty of being the first next gen system that the 360 had last year. That being said, if I see a 60GB model in a store, I'm snatching it up. I'd still like to play Resistance, I actually want a BluRay player, the PSOne downloads interest me, and come February, Virtua Figher 5 and Oblivion will be out, with more good games coming in the next few months.

[Karmakin]

I don't even think it's a matter of any sort of e-bay backlash. It's before Christmas and all that lovely stuff.

Nintendo has sucked up all the oxygen. I honestly expected both machines to go head to head when it comes to hype and desire, and for both to fly off the shelves as quickly as it hit.

The local Wal-Mart kept a some 60GB PS3s in stock for about 8 hours the last shipment. The last shipment of Wiis sold in 20 minutes. There really is a slowing of the demand for the PS3 right now. This probably means trouble for Sony in the long run, as post-Xmas sales might slow to a crawl, and product could start building in stores, giving the impression of the system as a failure, which encourages less people to buy it..

It really is a downward spiral.

[Goronmon]

Sony are doooomed!!!1!

[MSUStud911]

The Wii is also much much cheaper. If someone walks in and sees one, it's a lot easier to plunk down $250, than $500 or $600.

I have yet to see an actual PS3 anywhere. I guess they're still being snapped up here in Detroit.

[Johan]

I think price is a HUGE issue for most consumers right now, as MSUStud911 said.

Prices went up more in November than in the past thirty years! (http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/12/19/061219150056.i0vmpzp9.html)

That has a direct effect upon spending. If you're a parent on a tight budget, with prices going up and gifts to buy, what would you rather have; a kid-friendly Wii, or the more adult-centric, $500-600 PS3?

Price is absolutely huge. And the Wii comes with a game packed in it, too! It's a better value in the eyes of most everyday consumers who don't care about all the technological components and details we debate over and over here at EvAv. Most people buy a system just to play games, and don't consider the rest of the technical crap.

[Amalor]

To hell with Sony and nintendo I'm hoping to get the new V.Smile for Christmas.. or maybe I'll wait for the Phantom ;)
http://ec2.images-amazon.com/images/P/B000G6ZPCQ.01-A23NLORBGXOLEO._SCMZZZZZZZ_V59865119_.jpg

-cheers
-Amalor

[Static]

I was in target.. they had 4 PS3's sitting there... mid day.. totally crowded.. no one cared

[Reanimated]

I was in target.. they had 4 PS3's sitting there... mid day.. totally crowded.. no one cared



Yeah, Gamestop in the mall here got 4 in last Tuesday. I bought one of them and when I went back in there on Saturday to pick up Star Trek Legacy, they still had 1 left.

As BB King would say - the thrill is gone.

[NotJeff]

This confirms what I'm beginning to see at retail also - several people have returned their PS3s to the store I'm based at due reasons ranging from "unwanted gift" to "no longer interested in it (which is probably code for 'I tried to hawk it on eBay and nobody wanted it)".

Interesting. Does that mean that the PS3 was priced 'right' and that the underages just meant the wrong people got them all? I guess it probably doesn't say anything about the price, more about the people that thought the market for making a profit above $600 would be stable.

[normyk]

Damn! Why can't I find a shelf full of the damn things when I go shopping? I've been looking everywhere I go, but no love to be found.
I'm with bap - I'm more than happy to pay retail for one unbundled ps3. I'm just not willing to eff around with ebay or, god forbid, craigslist.

[Tyrant]

I've recently read different forum posts about various stores in my city getting 20-ish PS3s, only to not sell out until a whole day has passed. The Wii situation on the other hand, involves sellouts within minutes and people camping out at 10pm to get a hold of one the next morning. It seems as though just about everyone who wanted a PS3 right now has already gotten one, although I'd wager Sony was hoping that it would be a bit more wanted as it were.

[J-Dizzle]

It's interesting isn't it ? It would be nice to be able to say that the bad press and daft comments coming out of Sony HQ make a whole bunch of difference, but I guess, as people are saying, that it's really all down to cost.

I know I'm repeating what others have said, but there's no way on this earth I would pay £500 for a console with pretty much no games to interest me, no online content, and one which I fully expect to have some kind of fault in the first couple of months.

Right now I'm in the middle of getting myself a 360. This is the time to buy. A year down the line, there's a good catalogue of games, the machine is pretty reliable, and Live! has buckets of interesting content (geometry wars FTW !!).

In a year the PS3 will, I'm sure, be in the same position. The difference is that MS have spent their first year putting 8million consoles into homes. Will Sony be able to achieve this in 2007 ?

Perhaps. Perhaps not.

[Thenetcase]

I thought Sony said PS3 would sell 5 million units on brand-name alone, without any games available, and that PS3 was already too inexpensive.

That's what they said-- you heard right.

Just goes to show that if you tell a lie long enough and loud enough you'll start believing it yourself.

Sony is retarded. They screwed up.

THe PS3 is overpriced. Anyone who's played the XBox360 and the PS3 side-by-side in a gamestop or any other place quickly realized that the PS3 is definitely not worth the extra cash.

-TNC-

[blankoboy]

Kutaragi has got to have his job at the local conbini already lined up. This certainly does not bode well for the draconian root-kitting SONY. I certainly won't lose any sleep over it.

I will add that the PS3 is still sold out here in the Tokyo/Yokohama area for the time being. The Yodobashi camera by Kawasaki JR station has recieved a few shipments after the initial release and they generally sold out by the lunch hour. There were no more feverish rushes and lineups for it though. People just gingerly wandering over to the cash to say "Oh, there's the PS3. I suppose I'll buy one" (as they pull out their ever so manly Louis vutton wallets filled with a crisp wad of Ichi man yen notes).

[Buddha Lotus]

I was in Wal Mart this morning and they were sold out of it ( I wasnt looking for one) .. but they had a Ton of games.. I studied them all and there is like NOTHING good or groundbreaking for it.

Piss poor launch.

I saw yesturday on the Amazon.com that Grand Theft Auto 4 is NOT goling to be a PS3 exclusive. I dont forsee getting a Ps3 at all

[Gorvi]

That's what they said-- you heard right.

Just goes to show that if you tell a lie long enough and loud enough you'll start believing it yourself.

Sony is retarded. They screwed up.

THe PS3 is overpriced. Anyone who's played the XBox360 and the PS3 side-by-side in a gamestop or any other place quickly realized that the PS3 is definitely not worth the extra cash.

-TNC-

So how do you think the PS3 is overpriced exactly? $100 more (for the equal model now) for a BluRay player isn't exactly ripping you off there. Sure, the 60GB model is $200 more than the 360, but you get a hard drive 3 times the size of the 360's plus built in WiFi which costs an extra $100 if you want MS's official add-on. When the PS3 has the games to support it, it will sell. Point being, if you can afford to drop $400 on a game console, $500 for some added functionality isn't exactly a huge deal.

[NotJeff]

Right now I'm in the middle of getting myself a 360. This is the time to buy. A year down the line, there's a good catalogue of games, the machine is pretty reliable, and Live! has buckets of interesting content (geometry wars FTW !!).

QFT. I picked one up around Thanksgiving, and it's been very good to me. I walked into a well-established community of helpful EvAv gamers who already own one, there's a back catalog of games that have fully-considered reviews to them.

[NotJeff]

So how do you think the PS3 is overpriced exactly? $100 more (for the equal model now) for a BluRay player isn't exactly ripping you off there.

Well, not if you _want_ a BluRay.

[Vandenh]

for a BluRay player isn't exactly ripping you off there

Please stop using the Bluray argument. I DO NOT want Bluray or HD-DVD right now.

[Serapth]

I thought Sony said PS3 would sell 5 million units on brand-name alone, without any games available, and that PS3 was already too inexpensive.


Actually, I think it was Bill Gates who said that.

[Kamalot]

Actually, I think it was Bill Gates who said that.
Sony Europe honcho tells UK press that five million consumers would buy a PS3 regardless of launch library.

In a recent interview with Computer and Video Games, Sony Computer Entertainment Europe CEO David Reeves told the Web site he was worried less about moving units at the PS3's launch than he was about maintaining sales after early adopters had purchased their systems. "We have built up a certain brand equity over time since the launch of PlayStation in 1995 and PS2 in 2000 that the first five million are going to buy it, whatever it is, even [if] it didn't have games," he told the site. (http://www.gamespot.com/news/6151631.html)

Just a little arrogant, no?

:)

[Zander]

Actually, Gates said they could sell a Playstation marketed brick and people would buy it.

The sellout without games thing came from the Sony Euro boss.

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=140302&skip=yes

Towards the end of the article.

"We have built up a certain brand equity over time since the launch of PlayStation in 1995 and PS2 in 2000 that the first five million are going to buy it, whatever it is, even it didn't have games."

(Sorry Kamalot)

[SPBTooL]

I expected to see this happening. I did not expect it so soon. I was thinking we wouldn't see these kind of things until we were much closer to spring. Hell it isn't even Christmas yet.

The bigger issue for Sony here is that if they don't get the numbers out there the developers will start to jump ship more than than they did pre-launch. The few exclusives that they have left will have to go multi platform to make money. The MGS4 roomer is starting to sound more likely.

[Verocity]

I'm gonna go out on a limb with a carzy theory here:

Your average consumer be it parent or teenager is going to have a limit on how much they can spend on their new toy this year. We all know price is a factor so depending on their taste either a 360 or Wii is definitely affordable.

So, perhaps Sony was betting on the upper middle class or the rich to support their first few million sales? A lot more disposable income there. Well, I just got a new Dell 2407WFP wide screed 24" LCD monitor. Thing is f'n awesome btw. I could have picked up a PS3 for almost the same cash, and maybe a game. You could also pick up a new GeForce 8800GTX for $600. Far superior options to spend your money on if you're looking for quality entertainment and can afford it.

So the customer they so desperately need to purchase their system is the same one they are alienating by price. The price of the PS3 falls into the catageory of people who could also not afford to spend their money on a HD TV, high end home theatre, $100+ high def TV cable, etc.

*I* think they crossed that mythical line that we all know exists when anyone approachs a potential purchase in a store:

"Hrmm, that's just too much for THAT." or "Why would I spend that much when I can get this?"

[Darkholmme]

It's not only that the console is overpriced. The nature of the launch is killing them.

I was at an EBGames looking for a Wiimote, and I saw 4 people ask about a Playstation 3. They were told they would have to buy a bundle - System, 2 games, 4 reservations, and an extra controller. None of them took the deal.

On a side note, I also keep on hearing arguments about how $600 isn't much for a blu-ray player. but what if you just want a gaming system? Should gamers really pay so much more for one? I'm a big fan of the toaster-that-works-as-a-fax-machine argument: such additions are cool, but if I just want toast, I'm not going to shell out the extra money for such features. The same applies to the PS3.

[51|RandoM]

...so the only online firm they poll for data must be Ebay and maybe craigslist.

I'm glad the ebay dreams have fallen through for many people. Maybe they'll be less likely to try it next time around.

[Evil Avnovice]

So I'm guessing that either:

a) The $500-600 price tags are discouraging most buyers.

b) Ebay seems to be backfiring somewhat.

Either way, you KNOW there's a problem with your newest computer when people are starting to return it.

[CylonLord]

I was in Target two days ago and it was packed with people. I walked back to the videogame section and I was surprised to see 4 60gb PS3s in the cabinet....just sitting there. Nobody was even looking at the PS3 stuff. They were all around the Wii or buying 360 stuff. I just don't think the "regular" consumer is gonna pay $600 for this thing...not yet anyway with the lackluster launch titles and the Wii at $250.

[Balthasar]

I don't see how this can be used as evidence to confirm that PS3's aren't selling well (or as well as they should). What it does seem to confirm is that consumers are no longer willing to be gouged by ridiculous bundles that they really would have no interest in otherwise. It could also be an indication that consumers don't want many of the launch titles being offered. People also became more aware of what was being done after the 360 fiasco on Ebay last year, so instead of giving some opportunist a heafty profit margin, they're just trying to wait it out. If this company were tracking sales of consoles being sold from retailers (especially those not forcing those stupid bundles) and came away with the same data, maybe we would have something.

[Yeti2005]

I bought a PS3 20GB last week. I was hoping to sell it on ebay for a little bit of profit but the prices haven fallen down to retail. I have a Sony credit card with enough points where I could essentially get it for free but I think I may just return it.

Don't get me wrong I think eventually it will be a good system but right now it's not even remotely appealing. I already have a 360 so I'm good to go so far for my gaming needs.

[SPBTooL]

It's not only that the console is overpriced. The nature of the launch is killing them.

I was at an EBGames looking for a Wiimote, and I saw 4 people ask about a Playstation 3. They were told they would have to buy a bundle - System, 2 games, 4 reservations, and an extra controller. None of them took the deal.

On a side note, I also keep on hearing arguments about how $600 isn't much for a blu-ray player. but what if you just want a gaming system? Should gamers really pay so much more for one? I'm a big fan of the toaster-that-works-as-a-fax-machine argument: such additions are cool, but if I just want toast, I'm not going to shell out the extra money for such features. The same applies to the PS3.Then those same people could go to Target, Walmart, Best Buy or the internet and pick up just the system. Those are all places I have seen the PS3 in stock and there are internet prices that are near retail.

$500 for the cheaper PS3 and no games or $650 for the premium 360 and a Wii. The Wii comes with a game and the 360 has enough demos out to keep a new owner busy for quite awhile. That doesn't make the PS3 took like a good value. "Oh but Blue-Ray..." Most people don't care about BR.

[Paranoia]

That strange PS3 commercial with a baby doll must have turned off most consumers. :rolleyes:

[dotbomb]

If it weren't for Blu-Ray I wouldn't have bought a PS3 at all right now. I'm trying to decide what game I should buy if any for the system.

I agree though, for most this is not a compelling reason and $600 is a lot of cash for something that will be used soley for games.

[bapenguin]

...so the only online firm they poll for data must be Ebay and maybe craigslist.

I'm glad the ebay dreams have fallen through for many people. Maybe they'll be less likely to try it next time around.

I agree...nothing makes me happier.

[TheEpicOfTyler]

Great news. Hopefully this will disuade people from doing this next time something like this launchces. This totally fucked up an already fucked up launch in my opinion. There are more PS3's in scalpers hands then there are in gamers hands and it's almost like it hasn't even launched yet.

[Citizen Philip]

In my opinion: The PS3 is priced fairly for what it is offering, whether or not what it is offering is of value to a consumer is personal choice. I don't believe the average consumer wants to make a choice between HDD/BR currently, because the lack-of-value is evident on either side. A large number of stupid greedy people and companies assumed that because of the cost, they could get even more money with ridiculous bundles or price-jacking on Ebay: both of which were dumb ideas. I believe 4 digit prices is the unspoken rule, as long as cost is below that, it's fine.

As far as gaming, it offers what I would expect for a launch: not much. As HD stations and TVs become more common the value will be more apparent. I believe by this time next year (XMAS season) we will get a cleaner and better view: we can find out whether the Wii is a lost-cost fad/pipe dream or a revolutionary machine, how the HDD/BR conflict goes and additional titles for the 360 and PS3: as well as whatever tweaks are offered for online play and what have you. 2007 will be an interesting Christmas.

[Yeti2005]

Great news. Hopefully this will disuade people from doing this next time something like this launchces. This totally fucked up an already fucked up launch in my opinion. There are more PS3's in scalpers hands then there are in gamers hands and it's almost like it hasn't even launched yet.

Making money off a scarce item is not a sin. I bought the PS3 originally for my self then decided to sell it to make some money for Christmas presents but then the price dropped out on ebay. I've actually tried to sell it at retail cost to people at work (who some of them are hardcore gamers) and there were no offers. Scalpers may have a lot of the PS3 but from my experience there aren't a lot of gamers who want them.

[Rook34]

It's not only that the console is overpriced. The nature of the launch is killing them.

I was at an EBGames looking for a Wiimote, and I saw 4 people ask about a Playstation 3. They were told they would have to buy a bundle - System, 2 games, 4 reservations, and an extra controller. None of them took the deal.

On a side note, I also keep on hearing arguments about how $600 isn't much for a blu-ray player. but what if you just want a gaming system? Should gamers really pay so much more for one? I'm a big fan of the toaster-that-works-as-a-fax-machine argument: such additions are cool, but if I just want toast, I'm not going to shell out the extra money for such features. The same applies to the PS3.

Bundling is illegal and it should be reported (At least it is in stores, I think). Anyway, I work currently at an EbGames and we've never done that and have been told not to just in case anyone was thinking it.

Additionally, we've had 3 PS3's returned because of that very reason. One guy was at least honest enough to say it - that he didn't have the time or knowledge to ebay it and he really needed his money back. Fair enough. On the flipside though, we have sold _all_ our PS3's. They typically last a few hours.

[Steele Johnson]

The console needs more exclusives that are a "must have" before I even think of picking up this Blu-Ray player.

[51|RandoM]

The console needs more exclusives that are a "must have" before I even think of picking up this Blu-Ray player.

Most of us are in that boat, I'd think.

[DaXIthR]

Anyone remember when Bill Gates said that 640K RAM would be enough to run any program....?

Right underneath that should be his comment that Sony's first 10 million PS3 would sell themselves.

[Grimmjow]

I thik that the majority of PS3's tha tare being return are the ass hats who couldn't make money off of eBay. I personally think that the ps3 is priced like it should be with everything that it has, yeah its forcing buyers to buy everything @ once. Thats maybe the 1 other thing 360 has against ps3 is OPTIONS. buy stuff now to upgrade later but am i the only one who sees it you paying more in the long run to add stuff to your 360 or am i just being CRAZY!!

[Slack3r78]

So how do you think the PS3 is overpriced exactly? $100 more (for the equal model now) for a BluRay player isn't exactly ripping you off there. Sure, the 60GB model is $200 more than the 360, but you get a hard drive 3 times the size of the 360's plus built in WiFi which costs an extra $100 if you want MS's official add-on. When the PS3 has the games to support it, it will sell. Point being, if you can afford to drop $400 on a game console, $500 for some added functionality isn't exactly a huge deal.
Overpriced relative to their competition, which is gaming hardware, not movie players. Microsoft currently has a 25-50% price advantage, comparing the premium unit to either of the PS3 units. That is significant.

I really don't see how Sony is anything but at Microsoft's mercy at the moment. Microsoft has a huge price advantage already but that's not the full story. The full story is that Sony is losing nearly $300 a unit right now while Microsoft is making a healthy profit on each unit sold. This means that Microsoft could essentially drop the price of the 360 $50 to $100 at any time without hurting themselves, while Sony is pretty much stuck where they are. This would further extend Microsoft's pricing advantage, making the PS3 nearly double the price of the 360.

I really think that'd be a killing blow to Sony, and it's why I'd be surprised if Microsoft didn't drop the price on the 360 after the holiday season is over.

[Syrinx]

I thik that the majority of PS3's tha tare being return are the ass hats who couldn't make money off of eBay. I personally think that the ps3 is priced like it should be with everything that it has, yeah its forcing buyers to buy everything @ once. Thats maybe the 1 other thing 360 has against ps3 is OPTIONS. buy stuff now to upgrade later but am i the only one who sees it you paying more in the long run to add stuff to your 360 or am i just being CRAZY!!

I'm not interested in an HD format player right now and I have absolutely no need for wireless on my console. How am I paying more?

[Kamalot]

I'm not interested in an HD format player right now and I have absolutely no need for wireless on my console. How am I paying more?
I have no need for a risky HD format. Who's to say Bluray will be around in 3 years. It could easily go the way of UMD or Betamax.

[Grimmjow]

I'm not interested in an HD format player right now and I have absolutely no need for wireless on my console. How am I paying more?

im stating that of a person who plans on purchasing those items (ie. wireless adapter,hddvd addon) theres alot of people who don't have the option to run wires all through there house so therefore wireless comes to the rescue. As far the as external hddvd drive, some people like to see that as a cheap alternative to purchasing a standalone player by it self.

[Syrinx]

im stating that of a person who plans on purchasing those items (ie. wireless adapter,hddvd addon) theres alot of people who don't have the option to run wires all through there house so therefore wireless comes to the rescue. As far the as external hddvd drive, some people like to see that as a cheap alternative to purchasing a standalone player by it self.

I bolded the important pieces from your post. The whole point is it's about having options. Not being forced to purchase things you don't want that, in the end, really aren't about games.

[Slack3r78]

im stating that of a person who plans on purchasing those items (ie. wireless adapter,hddvd addon) theres alot of people who don't have the option to run wires all through there house so therefore wireless comes to the rescue. As far the as external hddvd drive, some people like to see that as a cheap alternative to purchasing a standalone player by it self.
How many non-hardcore gamers have you met that actually care about that stuff?

I've yet to find one, myself.

[Bugsplatter]

So how do you think the PS3 is overpriced exactly? $100 more (for the equal model now) for a BluRay player isn't exactly ripping you off there. Sure, the 60GB model is $200 more than the 360, but you get a hard drive 3 times the size of the 360's plus built in WiFi which costs an extra $100 if you want MS's official add-on. When the PS3 has the games to support it, it will sell. Point being, if you can afford to drop $400 on a game console, $500 for some added functionality isn't exactly a huge deal.

It's real simple Gorv... i dont NEED the wifi.. my hub is by my cable outlet which, conveniently, is near my TV and my Xbox. I need wifi to reach my laptop and my PC. I also don't NEED the 60 GB drive, although at this point with the new movie service it would be useful.

However i do NEED (for me atleast) an online service stuffed full of demo's with tons of downloadable games and excellent multiplayer support and a large catalogue of games.

PS3 may eventually have all those things, but right now it's a real iffy purchase even if priced equally to 360. If FFXIII was sitting on the shelf next to the PS3 and exclusive, then my will might crack. Not till then.

[Grimmjow]

How many non-hardcore gamers have you met that actually care about that stuff?

I've yet to find one, myself.

actually i know a couple, ie. router upstairs cant run cable through house. wireless to the rescue. yeah it may be a cheap laternative but look @ how much you invested in overall there for its not that cheap, just follow the same suite as PS3 just another color.

EDIT: you don't have to be a hardcore gamer to fine a easily solution for your home setup.

[Slack3r78]

actually i know a couple, ie. router upstairs cant run cable through house. wireless to the rescue. yeah it may be a cheap laternative but look @ how much you invested in overall there for its not that cheap, just follow the same suite as PS3 just another color.

EDIT: you don't have to be a hardcore gamer to fine a easily solution for your home setup.
Wireless is easily and cheaply solved for those that actually need it. I can see people finding it to be a convenience, but I've yet to talk to anyone that actually considered it a selling point for the system.

[92miata]

Right now it doesn't make sense for people to buy a PS3 for games. Like I said before, it lacks the novelty of being the first next gen system that the 360 had last year. That being said, if I see a 60GB model in a store, I'm snatching it up. I'd still like to play Resistance, I actually want a BluRay player, the PSOne downloads interest me, and come February, Virtua Figher 5 and Oblivion will be out, with more good games coming in the next few months.


i rented resistance and have it now. it is pretty impressive but it is not as good as gears of war. i don't regret getting the ps3 but i sure COULD have waited.

[Gorvi]

It's real simple Gorv... i dont NEED the wifi.. my hub is by my cable outlet which, conveniently, is near my TV and my Xbox. I need wifi to reach my laptop and my PC. I also don't NEED the 60 GB drive, although at this point with the new movie service it would be useful.

However i do NEED (for me atleast) an online service stuffed full of demo's with tons of downloadable games and excellent multiplayer support and a large catalogue of games.

PS3 may eventually have all those things, but right now it's a real iffy purchase even if priced equally to 360. If FFXIII was sitting on the shelf next to the PS3 and exclusive, then my will might crack. Not till then.

I see your point. For me, the WiFi is a must. Any next gen (meaning HD capable) console I buy will be in my livingroom which is a good distance from where my PC. Running a wire through my apartment is not an option for me, so the wireless would be very usefull. Same with the BluRay, I have a 65" HDTV, it would be pretty damn nice to finally hit the higher resolution for movies on something other than the channels I get from my cable provider. Of course, all this would be a moot point if I didn't know I was going to be buying the console anyway for games that I want. Honestly, if the PS3 exclusives don't interest you and those for the 360 do, the 360 is the right choice. For me, the 360 would cost more w/games I'm less interested in, but I realize that's not the way it is for everyone.

[Grimmjow]

Wireless is easily and cheaply solved for those that actually need it. I can see people finding it to be a convenience, but I've yet to talk to anyone considered it a selling point for the system.

i never said it was a selling point of a system, all im stating is that it's nice to have it THERE instead of me having to pay an addition piece, ie. the price of the PS3 is exactly what it should be and priced well for what it offers.

[Grimmjow]

i rented resistance and have it now. it is pretty impressive but it is not as good as gears of war. i don't regret getting the ps3 but i sure COULD have waited.


of course its no gears of war but it is a great game none the less. My only gripe is the low res textures besides that im good to go. if you had final hardware for a year or 2 then exclusive games will all loook like gears of war.

[Slack3r78]

i never said it was a selling point of a system, all im stating is that it's nice to have it THERE instead of me having to pay an addition piece, ie. the price of the PS3 is exactly what it should be and priced well for what it offers.
My counterpoint was that the PS3 is priced where it is because Sony decided to throw the kitchen sink into the PS3. This makes the PS3 considerably more expensive than its competition due to features which, while nice, aren't really selling points for a considerable segment of their target market.

[Wolvie]

Honestly, I thought the PS3 would be going like gang busters despite the price. But I guyess there are more people out there with the 'fuck-that-it's-too-expensive' attitude I have. Like I've said a million times before, I'll get back to the PS3, Christmas '07.

[JediSanf]

I think one reason why online sales are slowing is because many people (parents) got screwed over buying xbox360's for more than they wanted to spend and are now simply willing to wait retail out.

And then there's people like me who want one, can't find it anywhere (seriously, how are you guys this lucky? This is why I don't win the holiday giveaways.), and refuses to reward asshatery by taking a PS3 off ebay/craigslist.

[UglyPimp]

I was in Best Buy a few days ago and noticed the 360 is now coming with a free copy of one of the Need for Speed games. Not sure if this is a holiday bundle or not, but I wonder if this might be Microsoft's responses to the Wii's pack-in.

[Grimmjow]

I was in Best Buy a few days ago and noticed the 360 is now coming with a free copy of one of the Need for Speed games. Not sure if this is a holiday bundle or not, but I wonder if this might be Microsoft's responses to the Wii's pack-in.

if thats the case the yshould have put in a better game like Kameo or something.

[Vanthar]

I think someone has already touched on this but the PS3 sales may seem like they are slowing because no one thinks you can get it anywhere. I'm sorry to point out to you all but the real mainstream media, as in radio and tv, still report it sold out everywhere. Radio stations here are giving one away every now and then and they say they get ridiculous amounts of calls about it. I think you all are predicting doom and gloom for no good reason. Yeah the current entry problem is price, but there are still plenty of people ready and willing to pay for it.

[UglyPimp]

if thats the case the yshould have put in a better game like Kameo or something.

Yeah, I love racing games but in no way consider the Need for Speed series good (except for Hot Pursuit, that was great). Still, it's at least something I guess. Funny enough, the Best Buy in Pleasonton CA (where I was) had about 200 360's on the floor up and down the isles where the Playstation 3 and Wii were sold out. Looks like they're trying to sell them pretty hard.

[Grimmjow]

Yeah, I love racing games but in no way consider the Need for Speed series good (except for Hot Pursuit, that was great). Still, it's at least something I guess. Funny enough, the Best Buy in Pleasonton CA (where I was) had about 200 360's on the floor up and down the isles where the Playstation 3 and Wii were sold out. Looks like they're trying to sell them pretty hard.


Best Buy In santa monica, CA had them right in front of the door when you walk in. so you had to look @ it.

[Hagetaka]

Hum,

Isn't this what a lot of us expected anyways (sans the effect on Ebay)? I for one, am not suprised. Still the fact that they are selling as many consoles as they are with the games they have, is quite telling of how many Sony consumers there really are. Keep livin the dream, guys. I'm sure Sony won't dissapoint too much more.

[sanitystream]

Only one person in this thread (a couple pages back) has brought a dose of the REAL WORLD into this thread, and that was the article about inflation seeing the largest jump in 20 years. You must then also consider the fact that the housing bubble is starting to show serious signs of popping and crashing around the country. Housing prices in one of the hottest markets around, San Diego, just saw their biggest drop on record, and that kind of thing is starting to happen in other cities around the country as well.

see: http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/business/20061213-1141-bn13housing.html

The point is, a lot of people have been taking money out of their house equity to pay for things like HDTVS, plasma screens, and game consoles. As those people now watch the value of their homes start to decline - and in some cities, crash - they are definitely going to pull back on consumer spending. The fact is, in the real world outside this whole fanboy debate, the level of consumer debt is at the highest level it as EVER BEEN IN AMERICAN HISTORY. Consider that. Consider that Walmart has been reporting sales declines as compared to 2005, which has never happened to Walmart before (they've always seen sales growth every year).

All of this tells me the average American consumer may have finally tapped themselves out and are finally reaching the end of their consumer spending spree (which, coincidentally, started around the same time the housing bubble got rolling). You can't safely rack up debt while your house is losing value.

This may well be a factor in the PS3's troubles and the Wii's success. I'd say right now the higher-income Americans can still afford a PS3, but that's not mass market appeal, and even those with deeper pockets may pull back when they see their McMansion's lose value.

[Wyrm]

I live in a fair sized city and the big walmart near where I live has 10 of each kind in stock nearly all the time. I asked the guy that ran the games part how they'd been selling and he said a few people would pick one up every day and then return it the next day. He said he wasn't sure why, but I can make a few assumptions.

I even have a friend who has plenty of cash who picked one up, played two of the games, and promptly returned it. His main complaint was that he had just paid 600 bucks for two games he could play on his 360 (though he did kind of like Resistance, and I'm aware it's not for 360, his statement was that there are other shooters to play) and they really weren't all that impressive. I reminded him that it was launch and that things would get better, and he reminded me that these things will probably be on the shelf in a few months, and if the price doesn't drop drastically, they'll still be everywhere. Touche.

[saneman]

Anyone remember when Bill Gates said that 640K RAM would be enough to run any program....?

Nobody seems to remember (http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,1484,00.html).

[Flatpicker]

I wonder how this is going to affect developers in 07.
If the Sony launch fails to put enough units in homes, we may start hearing about how publishers are moving their titles to 360 and Wii for Xmas 07.
Then you get a vicious circle of "no killer apps, no interest in the PS3, No interest in the PS3, no killer apps.

If I were Sony, I'd be throwing huge money at Graff to make a quick GOW3 for 07.

[SPBTooL]

I thik that the majority of PS3's tha tare being return are the ass hats who couldn't make money off of eBay. I personally think that the ps3 is priced like it should be with everything that it has, yeah its forcing buyers to buy everything @ once. Thats maybe the 1 other thing 360 has against ps3 is OPTIONS. buy stuff now to upgrade later but am i the only one who sees it you paying more in the long run to add stuff to your 360 or am i just being CRAZY!! Don't for get that the prices will also drop over time too. Prices will also drop when better versions come out. IE: If MS ever releases a bigger HDD the current one will get cheaper.

[antoniogaud]

I have seen 3 PS3's 'in the wild' so far, but not one Wii. My family is hunting down Wii like crazy... lots of my (older) relatives want one.

[UglyPimp]

The fact is that Sony does have enough loyalty to sell its system without a stellar library. There's a dirth in interest because of the retail versus ebay situation. It will pan out, and Sony will be back on the up-and-up. Just how far up remains to be seen, but I doubt we'll see Sony take a significant hit in console sales this generation. Just because they're competing with stronger competition this time does not mean they've lost the foot hold. For the love of god, it's only the beginning of their launch.

[wyeast]

I have seen 3 PS3's 'in the wild' so far, but not one Wii. My family is hunting down Wii like crazy... lots of my (older) relatives want one.
Just yesterday I was at Costco - saw a whole pallet-ful of PS3 bundles (60gb + 1 game and 1 extra controller, I think) - maybe 12-15 units? I was a little surprised to see that many of them just sitting around.

No wonder the Ebay poachers are languishing with unsold PS3's.

[Grimmjow]

Don't for get that the prices will also drop over time too. Prices will also drop when better versions come out. IE: If MS ever releases a bigger HDD the current one will get cheaper.

well thats true with about any electronic device. I want to see how MS is going to do the whole HD thing IF they even do it.

[Balthasar]

Only one person in this thread (a couple pages back) has brought a dose of the REAL WORLD into this thread, and that was the article about inflation seeing the largest jump in 20 years. You must then also consider the fact that the housing bubble is starting to show serious signs of popping and crashing around the country. Housing prices in one of the hottest markets around, San Diego, just saw their biggest drop on record, and that kind of thing is starting to happen in other cities around the country as well.

see: http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/business/20061213-1141-bn13housing.html

The point is, a lot of people have been taking money out of their house equity to pay for things like HDTVS, plasma screens, and game consoles. As those people now watch the value of their homes start to decline - and in some cities, crash - they are definitely going to pull back on consumer spending.
It's not just people mortgaging their house, though. People are relying on credit cards to fund their purchases in record numbers, which is probably more responsible for our economy having recovered somewhat in the last two years than anything else. Anyway, this issue will quickly veer into a political debate, but needless to say, a lot of people are not managing their money well.

[Kamalot]

I think someone has already touched on this but the PS3 sales may seem like they are slowing because no one thinks you can get it anywhere. I'm sorry to point out to you all but the real mainstream media, as in radio and tv, still report it sold out everywhere. Radio stations here are giving one away every now and then and they say they get ridiculous amounts of calls about it. I think you all are predicting doom and gloom for no good reason. Yeah the current entry problem is price, but there are still plenty of people ready and willing to pay for it.
So, your argument is that many people are willing to pay for the PS3, yet your only evidence is the number of people who call into a radio show to obtain a free one?

Your argument holds no water. How can a large number of people trying to obtain a product for FREE show the willingness of people to pay $600 for the product?

Perhaps all those people calling into the radio station are attempting to get something for free, maybe even to sell it on eBay.

[Grimmjow]

So, your argument is that many people are willing to pay for the PS3, yet your only evidence is the number of people who call into a radio show to obtain a free one?

Your argument holds no water. How can a large number of people trying to obtain a product for FREE show the willingness of people to pay $600 for the product?

Perhaps all those people calling into the radio station are attempting to get something for free, maybe even to sell it on eBay.


well anybody is willing to do just about anything for free, especially when they can make a profit off it it, so they think...

[Mandafarian]

Does anyone else foresee the PS3 being Dreamcasted?

I'm sure it's just my lack of liking Sony at all that sees this as a probable event...

but I just don't understand how a console could survive with low sales, meaning (smart) developers will go to the consoles that are selling, and then won't the PS3 lose it's exclusives and ultimately be DC'd?

[Kamalot]

well anybody is willing to do just about anything for free, especially when they can make a profit off it it, so they think...
Right. People are willing to call a radio station to get a free product. Are those same people willing to pony up $600 for the same product?

Utilizing demand for a free product to indicate that the demand is healthy for a $600 product is lunacy.

[Kamalot]

Does anyone else foresee the PS3 being Dreamcasted?No.

Dreamcast had a slew of great games for it. It even launched with Soul Calibur, a game that is, to this day, without equal. Dreamcast was home to games more graphically impressive than anything else on the PS2.

Dreamcast had every reason to survive on its merits alone but was killed by marketing hype form the competition.

PS3 couldn't be farther from the Dreamcast.

[Gorvi]

No.

Dreamcast had a slew of great games for it. It even launched with Soul Calibur, a game that is, to this day, without equal. Dreamcast was home to games more graphically impressive than anything else on the PS2.

Dreamcast had every reason to survive on its merits alone but was killed by marketing hype form the competition.

PS3 couldn't be farther from the Dreamcast.

You seem to be willing to view the Dreamcast with rose tinted glasses. While Soul Calibur was a great game, it was an arcade port. There were some great niche games for the DC, but it wasn't killed by marketing hype. It was killed by 1) No support from EA (and a lot of other 3rd parties didn't because of this) and 2) People's lack of faith in SEGA consoles due to their previous mistakes with the SEGA CD, 32X, and Saturn. You're right that the PS3 isn't the Dreamcast, it has it's own set of problems very similiar to what the XBOX faced last gen.

[Balthasar]

Dreamcast had every reason to survive on its merits alone but was killed by marketing hype form the competition.
Oh, it was all Sony's doing? It had nothing to do with the performance of the Saturn?

[hotdrop]

im returning mine today or tomorrow. I was hoping to make a cople bux off it but by the time it got it, it was worthless.

[Kamalot]

Oh, it was all Sony's doing? It had nothing to do with the performance of the Saturn?
There were other competitors aside from Sony.

Gorvi is right on several points too. Dreamcast didn't have EA support which is bad in the eyes of the mainstream sheep. But lack of faith in Sega was completely Sega's doing and has nothing to do with the actual Dreamcast itself. The Dreamcast had enough right about it to stand on its own merits.

That is still a FAR different story from the PS3. While Sega was coming off a terrible tail spin of 32X, Gamegear, Nomad, Saturn while entering the Dreamcast's life; Sony is riding exactly the opposite. Sony is coming off of the PS2 high, which was the most successful console ever.

More and more the PS3 looks like the Saturn, not the Dreamcast. Saturn was overpriced and difficult to program for. The internal teams at Sega were able to do amazing things on the Saturn, but most teams just ended up making sloppy ports of Playstation games for it, and the quality showed. Multiple processors in the Saturn were tricky to work with and difficult to obtain great performance from.

Sounds a lot like the PS3 to me.

[antoniogaud]

WHAT?!? You are returning it? What do you mean it is worthless? You can play Resistance and Motorstorm (import) and BluRay!!

[fitbabits]

WHAT?!? You are returning it? What do you mean it is worthless? You can play Resistance and Motorstorm (import) and BluRay!!
Just a guess, but that may well be why he thinks it's worthless. :)

[Gorvi]

There were other competitors aside from Sony.

Gorvi is right on several points too. Dreamcast didn't have EA support which is bad in the eyes of the mainstream sheep. But lack of faith in Sega was completely Sega's doing and has nothing to do with the actual Dreamcast itself. The Dreamcast had enough right about it to stand on its own merits.

That is still a FAR different story from the PS3. While Sega was coming off a terrible tail spin of 32X, Gamegear, Nomad, Saturn while entering the Dreamcast's life; Sony is riding exactly the opposite. Sony is coming off of the PS2 high, which was the most successful console ever.

More and more the PS3 looks like the Saturn, not the Dreamcast. Saturn was overpriced and difficult to program for. The internal teams at Sega were able to do amazing things on the Saturn, but most teams just ended up making sloppy ports of Playstation games for it, and the quality showed. Multiple processors in the Saturn were tricky to work with and difficult to obtain great performance from.

Sounds a lot like the PS3 to me.

I agree, the Saturn is a much better comparison. I think the PS3 will fare better than the Saturn though, it just has more developer support and a much stronger name than SEGA did at the time. Don't get me wrong, I think in worldwide sales, the 360 will still probably end up having an edge in the end this generation, just not by a huge margin. This is probably the best thing that could happen to the industry as it'll force both MS and Sony to come out swinging full throttle next gen. Both consoles can survive very well as the 360 will probably be the console of choice for those with a more western set of tastes while the PS3 will cater to those that enjoy the more traditional Japanese games. It should be an interesting generation.

[Mandafarian]

Just a guess, but that may well be why he thinks it's worthless. :)

QFT. :cool:

[TheFlyingOrc]

I agree, the Saturn is a much better comparison. I think the PS3 will fare better than the Saturn though, it just has more developer support and a much stronger name than SEGA did at the time. Don't get me wrong, I think in worldwide sales, the 360 will still probably end up having an edge in the end this generation, just not by a huge margin. This is probably the best thing that could happen to the industry as it'll force both MS and Sony to come out swinging full throttle next gen. Both consoles can survive very well as the 360 will probably be the console of choice for those with a more western set of tastes while the PS3 will cater to those that enjoy the more traditional Japanese games. It should be an interesting generation.

OR one of them could die and then have to compete only with Nintendo, while I could buy only 2 systems to play all the games I wanted, AND there would still be competition in the industry.

[Phades]

Am I the only one who thinks these "I saw a PS3 sit on a shelf for 4 days" comments is full of crap? I don't buy it. If it DID "sit on a shelf" it's because it was in a back room and nobody knew they had it. If there was a retail unit advertised as being in stock at any major store it'd be gone within a few minutes.

[LycoLoco]

Am I the only one who thinks these "I saw a PS3 sit on a shelf for 4 days" comments is full of crap? I don't buy it. If it DID "sit on a shelf" it's because it was in a back room and nobody knew they had it. If there was a retail unit advertised as being in stock at any major store it'd be gone within a few minutes.
I think you're overestimating the power of the PS3. People just don't have the $700 needed to buy a PS3 and a game (after tax), especially not when those games are garbage.

[Gorvi]

OR one of them could die and then have to compete only with Nintendo, while I could buy only 2 systems to play all the games I wanted, AND there would still be competition in the industry.

As much as I hate to say it, Nintendo hasn't been real competition in the home console market since the SNES. You could argue the N64, but it'd be a little bit of a stretch. If one of the big 2 now (MS or Sony) go away, we're more than likely looking at getting royally screwed over by whoever's left. Whether that's through ridiculous micropayments, overpriced badly made hardware, or what, I don't want to know. I don't see Nintendo changing their entire strategy just because one of the others went away.

[fitbabits]

Am I the only one who thinks these "I saw a PS3 sit on a shelf for 4 days" comments is full of crap? I don't buy it. If it DID "sit on a shelf" it's because it was in a back room and nobody knew they had it. If there was a retail unit advertised as being in stock at any major store it'd be gone within a few minutes.
Um, there's no big conspiracy or lie here. I've seen them available, in broad daylight, and no-one appeared interested.

And how do you explain the fact that PS3s are now going for retail on eBay?

[TheFlyingOrc]

As much as I hate to say it, Nintendo hasn't been real competition in the home console market since the SNES. You could argue the N64, but it'd be a little bit of a stretch. If one of the big 2 now (MS or Sony) go away, we're more than likely looking at getting royally screwed over by whoever's left. Whether that's through ridiculous micropayments, overpriced badly made hardware, or what, I don't want to know. I don't see Nintendo changing their entire strategy just because one of the others went away.

This is stupid, and both your mom and face are dumb. Nintendo not being competitive recently doesn't have anything to do with this generation - competition exists to keep companies from "existing on brand alone" a la Sony.

The reason competition is beneficial is it makes innovation a requirement - the major arguments for this are Live and the Wiimote. I fail to see how this benefit of competition would fade away if there were 2 competitors instead of 3. Surely you wouldn't think 19 consoles would benefit anyone?

[Balthasar]

That is still a FAR different story from the PS3. While Sega was coming off a terrible tail spin of 32X, Gamegear, Nomad, Saturn while entering the Dreamcast's life; Sony is riding exactly the opposite. Sony is coming off of the PS2 high, which was the most successful console ever.
Well, that's definitely true. Independent of anything else Sega had done, the Dreamcast was a worthy console for the last generation.

More and more the PS3 looks like the Saturn, not the Dreamcast. Saturn was overpriced and difficult to program for. The internal teams at Sega were able to do amazing things on the Saturn, but most teams just ended up making sloppy ports of Playstation games for it, and the quality showed. Multiple processors in the Saturn were tricky to work with and difficult to obtain great performance from.
Did the Saturn have more than one processor? I didn't remember this. I'm trying to recall why I stopped buying games for my Saturn when I owned that and a broken PS1 at the same time (I literally had to flip my PS1 upside down for it to read discs properly).

[TheFlyingOrc]

(I literally had to flip my PS1 upside down for it to read discs properly).

How did you figure that out?

[Chameleo]

yeah yeah doom and gloom for sony. no one's buying their consoles etc. the price on craigslist and ebay has dropped to almost retail yadda yadda yadda.

sony will still sell the most consoles this generation.

and i'm not even a sony fan.

[Gorvi]

This is stupid, and both your mom and face are dumb. Nintendo not being competitive recently doesn't have anything to do with this generation - competition exists to keep companies from "existing on brand alone" a la Sony.

The reason competition is beneficial is it makes innovation a requirement - the major arguments for this are Live and the Wiimote. I fail to see how this benefit of competition would fade away if there were 2 competitors instead of 3. Surely you wouldn't think 19 consoles would benefit anyone?

Ok, so you considered the Gamecube a viable competitor last gen? You could have honestly told someone "Yeah, sure, go buy a GC as your only console, you'll be totally happy with the flow of games you'll get."? And, yes, Nintendo not being competitive recently has everything to do with this generation. They're content to be in second place by the looks of things. And I mean second place as a game console, as in the number of titles most gamers are interested in. I couldn't see any real gamer having the Wii as a primary console, and Nintendo seems happy with that. That's a less than competitive attitude there. They've said they're not going up against MS or Sony directly, they're catering to a different market. I will gaurentee you that if either MS or Sony go away, you will see one big tech flashy console where a lot of your hardcore will go, and Nintendo will still play their fun angle.

[fitbabits]

yeah yeah doom and gloom for sony. no one's buying their consoles etc. the price on craigslist and ebay has dropped to almost retail yadda yadda yadda.

sony will still sell the most consoles this generation.

and i'm not even a sony fan.
Denial is often the first stage of recognizing guilt. Followed by remorse.

[Serapth]

Denial is often the first stage of recognizing guilt. Followed by remorse.


I thought it was a river in africa?

[Lothair]

yeah yeah doom and gloom for sony. no one's buying their consoles etc. the price on craigslist and ebay has dropped to almost retail yadda yadda yadda.

sony will still sell the most consoles this generation.

and i'm not even a sony fan.

I'm a big fan of this method of argument: you start by listing perfectly valid forms of evidence and dismising them with a "bah" (or in this case, an also acceptable "yadda yadda yadda,") without bothering to explain why this evidence should be disregarded. Then, make a sweeping statement. At this point, a weaker person would offer some form of evidence, but instead, just say "I am not a Sony fan." Once people discover that you are not a Sony fan, they are sure to see the obvious wisdom of you opinion over their so called "facts."

[Dag-Sabot]

I'm a big fan of this method of argument: you start by listing perfectly valid forms of evidence and dismising them with a "bah" (or in this case, an also acceptable "yadda yadda yadda,") without bothering to explain why this evidence should be disregarded. Then, make a sweeping statement. At this point, a weaker person would offer some form of evidence, but instead, just say "I am not a Sony fan." Once people discover that you are not a Sony fan, they are sure to see the obvious wisdom of you opinion over their so called "facts."Geez Lothair, nice dissection, bravo. Broad steady strokes of the logic-scalpel.

[Balthasar]

How did you figure that out?
I want to take credit for it, but I actually was told by a guy in my high school who described the same issue that I was having. I don't know why it didn't occur to me, given that I had already noted on my own that the laser eye seemed recessed in the drive. It was a first-gen model, so I guess it was probably made with some flaw that involved not tightening that portion of the unit. Regadless, I clicked my heals once my games started working for more than 15 minutes at a time and almost never looked back to my Saturn (except for when Mega Man 8 came out).

[Tyrant]

yeah yeah doom and gloom for sony. no one's buying their consoles etc. the price on craigslist and ebay has dropped to almost retail yadda yadda yadda.

sony will still sell the most consoles this generation.

and i'm not even a sony fan.

"...but I AM a psychic! Call 1-900-CON-PSYC for a reading today! Only 3.99/minute!"

[grammatoncleric]

yeah yeah doom and gloom for sony. no one's buying their consoles etc. the price on craigslist and ebay has dropped to almost retail yadda yadda yadda.

sony will still sell the most consoles this generation.

and i'm not even a sony fan.

....flashback to 1996

yeah yeah yeah doom and gloom for nintendo. they lost their cd partnership with sony, sony thinks they (HA!) can make a better system with more support. the n64 controller is weird and it turns off some people. blah blah blah.

n64 will still sell the most consoles this generation.

and i'm not even a nintendo fan.

[TheFlyingOrc]

Ok, so you considered the Gamecube a viable competitor last gen? You could have honestly told someone "Yeah, sure, go buy a GC as your only console, you'll be totally happy with the flow of games you'll get."? And, yes, Nintendo not being competitive recently has everything to do with this generation. They're content to be in second place by the looks of things. And I mean second place as a game console, as in the number of titles most gamers are interested in. I couldn't see any real gamer having the Wii as a primary console, and Nintendo seems happy with that. That's a less than competitive attitude there. They've said they're not going up against MS or Sony directly, they're catering to a different market. I will gaurentee you that if either MS or Sony go away, you will see one big tech flashy console where a lot of your hardcore will go, and Nintendo will still play their fun angle.

The gamecube and 64 having no games is what I like to call a myth. I own 34 gamecube games - I don't like ONE of them. Curse you, Star Fox Adventures! :mad: :mad: :mad:

It's very simple. I have an interest in the PS3 failing. If the PS3 fails, their games will go to the 360, I will purchase a 360, and I will play the franchises I've been not playing not owning a PS2.

[TheFlyingOrc]

I'm a big fan of this method of argument: you start by listing perfectly valid forms of evidence and dismising them with a "bah" (or in this case, an also acceptable "yadda yadda yadda,") without bothering to explain why this evidence should be disregarded. Then, make a sweeping statement. At this point, a weaker person would offer some form of evidence, but instead, just say "I am not a Sony fan." Once people discover that you are not a Sony fan, they are sure to see the obvious wisdom of you opinion over their so called "facts."

If I see 2 more excellent posts like this from you, I will buy you a subscription, no lie.

[Johan]

If the PS3 fails, their games will go to the 360, I will purchase a 360, and I will play the franchises I've been not playing not owning a PS2.

I actually think it would be better for the industry and for consumers if one of the big three got out of the hardware side of things.

If that were to happen, developers could focus on fewer platforms, which would make games more likely to be optimized for particular systems, and result in fewer 'dumbed down' ports. Developers could also take more risks, as the base for consoles would be condensed into two platforms, and would be larger as a result. Fewer platforms would also make development cheaper.

Also, consumers wouldn't have to plunk down over a grand just to get in the door of all three systems (each has games that are exclusive and enjoyable...it's over a grand to get the hardware for all three). Additionally, perhaps we wouldn't have the rush to release the next system that we had this generation, with the 360 and PS3 both seeming to release before they were 'ripe,' and with developers suffering economically as a result of the small console base for each platform.

It's happened before, and it's sure to happen again (companies getting out of hardware in gaming) and I wouldn't mind seeing Sony give up the hardware side of things.

[Karmakin]

I agree with Lothair as well. I enjoy these debates, no matter what side you're on. But one should acknowledge and at least try to counter arguments from the other side.

That's just no fun. It turns from a debate to a screaming match.

[TheFlyingOrc]

I agree with Lothair as well. I enjoy these debates, no matter what side you're on. But one should acknowledge and at least try to counter arguments from the other side.

That's just no fun. It turns from a debate to a screaming match.

YOU TURN DEBATES INTO A SCREAMING MATCH!

o

[pacman]

It's not only that the console is overpriced. The nature of the launch is killing them.

I was at an EBGames looking for a Wiimote, and I saw 4 people ask about a Playstation 3. They were told they would have to buy a bundle - System, 2 games, 4 reservations, and an extra controller. None of them took the deal.

On a side note, I also keep on hearing arguments about how $600 isn't much for a blu-ray player. but what if you just want a gaming system? Should gamers really pay so much more for one? I'm a big fan of the toaster-that-works-as-a-fax-machine argument: such additions are cool, but if I just want toast, I'm not going to shell out the extra money for such features. The same applies to the PS3.

I completely agree :D

[Thenetcase]

So how do you think the PS3 is overpriced exactly? $100 more (for the equal model now) for a BluRay player isn't exactly ripping you off there. Sure, the 60GB model is $200 more than the 360, but you get a hard drive 3 times the size of the 360's plus built in WiFi which costs an extra $100 if you want MS's official add-on. When the PS3 has the games to support it, it will sell. Point being, if you can afford to drop $400 on a game console, $500 for some added functionality isn't exactly a huge deal.

You do realize that 90% of the people in this country don't even HAVE an HDTV... like me. I'd like one, but there are a lot more interesting things to buy right now.
Also the miniscule difference in quality between HD and BluRay is rediculous. why would I pay so much more for a BluRay player when I can get the same damn thing on an HD DVD? Please.... that argument is weak.

I don't want or need a BluRay player. Therefore the PS3 is a PIECE OF OVERPRICED SHIT! Got that? Good.

If I wanted a BluRay player, I would go buy one. I wouldn't buy a PS3. :)

[Karmakin]

YOU TURN DEBATES INTO A SCREAMING MATCH!

o


:p

Everybodies a smartass.

[archon]

Sony's gonna get raped.

[moron]

Did anyone actually look for examples?

http://www.ebgames.com/gs/ps3/ps3_signup.asp
http://www.gamestop.com/gs/ps3/ps3_signup.asp
- can't buy PS3 online

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=5303667
- PS3 out of stock

http://www.bestbuy.com/site//olspage.jsp?id=pcmcat106600050030&type=category
- PS3 not available

http://www.amazon.com/Sony-Computer-Entertainment-PS3-PlayStation/dp/B0009VXAM0/sr=8-1/qid=1166661251/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1_s9_rk/103-9104241-2108656?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&s9r=8a5801be0d117bc7010d3a74224705dc
- none available from Amazon, only from scalpers for ridiculous prices

Sounds to me like the entire premise of the original articles is invalid.

Cheers

[Fartacus]

Am I the only one who thinks these "I saw a PS3 sit on a shelf for 4 days" comments is full of crap? I don't buy it. If it DID "sit on a shelf" it's because it was in a back room and nobody knew they had it. If there was a retail unit advertised as being in stock at any major store it'd be gone within a few minutes.

Go ahead. Don't buy it, your beliefs don't alter fact. There have been PS3's on the shelf at Fry's Electronics in Austin that have been visible for days without selling. There are no Wiis to be had here, unfortunately.

[Dracula-X]

Did anyone actually look for examples?

http://www.ebgames.com/gs/ps3/ps3_signup.asp
http://www.gamestop.com/gs/ps3/ps3_signup.asp
- can't buy PS3 online

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=5303667
- PS3 out of stock

http://www.bestbuy.com/site//olspage.jsp?id=pcmcat106600050030&type=category
- PS3 not available

http://www.amazon.com/Sony-Computer-Entertainment-PS3-PlayStation/dp/B0009VXAM0/sr=8-1/qid=1166661251/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1_s9_rk/103-9104241-2108656?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&s9r=8a5801be0d117bc7010d3a74224705dc
- none available from Amazon, only from scalpers for ridiculous prices

Sounds to me like the entire premise of the original articles is invalid.

Cheers
Well done, well done. </close thread>

[Vanthar]

Did anyone actually look for examples?

http://www.ebgames.com/gs/ps3/ps3_signup.asp
http://www.gamestop.com/gs/ps3/ps3_signup.asp
- can't buy PS3 online

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=5303667
- PS3 out of stock

http://www.bestbuy.com/site//olspage.jsp?id=pcmcat106600050030&type=category
- PS3 not available

http://www.amazon.com/Sony-Computer-Entertainment-PS3-PlayStation/dp/B0009VXAM0/sr=8-1/qid=1166661251/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1_s9_rk/103-9104241-2108656?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&s9r=8a5801be0d117bc7010d3a74224705dc
- none available from Amazon, only from scalpers for ridiculous prices

Sounds to me like the entire premise of the original articles is invalid.

Cheers

you win the thread

[Thenetcase]

So I called a few local places.....

Everyone except Wal-Mart has them instock.

When I say everyone...

EB Games = 5 in stock
Gamestop = 2 in stock
EB Games #2 = 3 in stock
EB Games #3 = 1 in stock
Target = 2 in stock
Best Buy = 4 in stock
CompUSA = 1 in stock

--------
So ... just because online places don't have them... :)

Oh yeah and most of those places are still having trouble keeping the xbox360 in stock and none of them had Wii's

-TNC-

[fitbabits]

Did anyone actually look for examples?

http://www.ebgames.com/gs/ps3/ps3_signup.asp
http://www.gamestop.com/gs/ps3/ps3_signup.asp
- can't buy PS3 online

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=5303667
- PS3 out of stock

http://www.bestbuy.com/site//olspage.jsp?id=pcmcat106600050030&type=category
- PS3 not available

http://www.amazon.com/Sony-Computer-Entertainment-PS3-PlayStation/dp/B0009VXAM0/sr=8-1/qid=1166661251/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1_s9_rk/103-9104241-2108656?ie=UTF8&s=videogames&s9r=8a5801be0d117bc7010d3a74224705dc
- none available from Amazon, only from scalpers for ridiculous prices

Sounds to me like the entire premise of the original articles is invalid.

Cheers
You do know that there's a whole world outside of online shopping, right? Bricks-and-mortar stores, for example. Which, as TNC has pointed out, often carry items which are out of stock online.

[moron]

You do know that there's a whole world outside of online shopping, right? Bricks-and-mortar stores, for example. Which, as TNC has pointed out, often carry items which are out of stock online.

You do know that the whole premise of this article was that there was an online glut of PS3 stock:

The high price of the PlayStation 3, along with the retail practice of bundling the console with software, has lead to a glut of stock online, claims tracking firm NotifyWire.

Which a cursory glance around shows is BS.

Cheers

[moron]

Or if we go to the original source:

http://www.notifywire.com/ProductInfo.aspx?PID=7
http://www.notifywire.com/ProductInfo.aspx?PID=3

"Currently there is no availability."

Cheers

[fitbabits]

You do know that the whole premise of this article was that there was an online glut of PS3 stock:
Cheers
Oh, I know that. After all, I posted the news. However, the topic evolved into a debate over whether one could buy the PS3 online or in a store. Some said no, some said yes. Turns out you can. Reading the whole thread FTW. Magic.

[fitbabits]

Or if we go to the original source:

http://www.notifywire.com/ProductInfo.aspx?PID=7
http://www.notifywire.com/ProductInfo.aspx?PID=3

"Currently there is no availability."

Cheers
Or if I wanted to pad my post count by adding another post instead of editing the one I already made which referenced the above links, I could just do this:

Oh, I know that. After all, I posted the news. However, the topic evolved into a debate over whether one could buy the PS3 online or in a store. Some said no, some said yes. Turns out you can. Reading the whole thread FTW. Magic.

[fitbabits]

Or if we go to the original source:

http://www.notifywire.com/ProductInfo.aspx?PID=7
http://www.notifywire.com/ProductInfo.aspx?PID=3

"Currently there is no availability."

Cheers
Oh, and Cheers.

[Rotting]

Right now it doesn't make sense for people to buy a PS3 for games. Like I said before, it lacks the novelty of being the first next gen system that the 360 had last year. That being said, if I see a 60GB model in a store, I'm snatching it up. I'd still like to play Resistance, I actually want a BluRay player, the PSOne downloads interest me, and come February, Virtua Figher 5 and Oblivion will be out, with more good games coming in the next few months.

I was at the local EB today and they have had stock for about a week now. There is just nobody in there buying them.

There are also four people at my place of work offering to sell boxed (unopened) PS3s for the same price that they paid at the store and there are no takers.

I think the asking price is just too high even if you can get it at the MSRP. Once they get some killer apps and lower the cost I'm sure this situation will quickly change.

[Johan]

Oh, and Cheers.

fitbabits; new and improved! Now with more bits and occasional fits! ;)

We probably don't want to take anyone whose screen name is "moron" too terribly seriously! :)

BTW: I'm getting tired of people tearing into the reds. They're not freaking pinatas, and they're not perfect. Pay them a salary from your own pocket so they can do this full time and then you can bitch at them, eh?! Otherwise, they're moderating a terrific site and deserve a bit of elbow room... :p

And no, I'm not kissing up. I've had my share of pissing matches with several of them. I'm just tired of the same old song and dance crap tossed in their digital faces... :p

[moron]

Or if I wanted to pad my post count by adding another post instead of editing the one I already made which referenced the above links, I could just do this

Right, because EA post count obviously has so much relevance to ones ability to fact check postings before they make them.

Cheers

[Serapth]

Ebay seems to think the demand for PS3's has fallen to basically MSRP or less...

Wii's on the other hand are selling at a 50% markup...

http://www.netsalesman.com/ps3ebay.jpg

[fitbabits]

Right, because EA post count obviously has so much relevance to ones ability to fact check postings before they make them.

Cheers
Right, because reading the whole thread before posting seemingly random information on a topic which has evolved from the first post is totally, like, super-relevant.

Magic.

[fitbabits]

BTW: I'm getting tired of people tearing into the reds. They're not freaking pinatas, and they're not perfect. Pay them a salary from your own pocket so they can do this full time and then you can bitch at them, eh?! Otherwise, they're moderating a terrific site and deserve a bit of elbow room... :p
Sniff...

These are real tears, Johan... Not your crocodile variety.

[Serapth]

Notice how all of them are less then MSRP, or at MSRP, or otherwise have zero bids? These are all on sales that end in one minute.

The lack of bids is just as telling as the prices.

[Johan]

Sniff...

These are real tears, Johan... Not your crocodile variety.

Probably from getting smacked in the face by idiots with nothing better to do than harass and harangue anyone with a red name or an OP, too!! :o

Moron (the screen name...NOT fitbabits! ;)): Ending every single post with "cheers" regardless of the content of your post is really Orwelllian of you, where words no longer mean anything approximating what they were formerly understood to mean.

Use cheers if you mean to be respectful or considerate or sociable...not after EVERY DAMN POST...even the ones that are rude and obnoxious.

I guess I'll say "regards" the next time I cuss someone out...you know, out of habit, as a closer to the whole thing. Like a bow on top.

*axiom: Never step between a moron and his intended target...;)*

[fitbabits]

Probably from getting smacked in the face by idiots with nothing better to do than harass and harangue anyone with a red name or an OP, too!! :o
Heh, there's that on occasion, but I've developed a thick skin since the early days of my redness when I made some poor calls and failed to live up to the lofty expectations of such a wonderful community.

I think I speak for all reds when I say there's nothing we'd rather be doing than taking care of the EvAv community, be it through the Holiday Giveaway (how soon some people forget) or some other method.

[silv]

So how do you think the PS3 is overpriced exactly? $100 more (for the equal model now) for a BluRay player isn't exactly ripping you off there. Sure, the 60GB model is $200 more than the 360, but you get a hard drive 3 times the size of the 360's plus built in WiFi which costs an extra $100 if you want MS's official add-on. When the PS3 has the games to support it, it will sell. Point being, if you can afford to drop $400 on a game console, $500 for some added functionality isn't exactly a huge deal.

When the PS3 has games to support it, the 360 will be cheaper.

[Kamalot]

When the PS3 has games to support it, the 360 will be cheaper.
You know, I never considered this before.

Xbox 360 will always have more titles available and will always be a better deal. They have the ability to slash prices since it costs them less to make it, always keeping the value ahead of PS3.

Brilliant move on Microsoft's part.

[Pumped'Up]

I'd gladly pay retail for the Premium PS3...but I've been to many stores, often, and none to be found...

[BlackPete]

Right, because EA post count obviously has so much relevance to ones ability to fact check postings before they make them.

Cheers

I admire your brilliance in choosing a name that's so well-fitting :cool:

[BlackPete]

On my company's internal classified ads, I see quite a few people posting ads for either a 20GB or 60GB PS3s, and there's hardly ever any takers. They all basically the same thing: "I thought I'd post this ad here before I take it back to the store..."

There's also quite a lot of posts saying "WTB: Wii! I'm a bad dad, must get one for xmas..."

I'm almost tempted to email them asking how much they'd pay for mine :D (Not that it's for sale, mind you)

[Chameleo]

I'm a big fan of this method of argument: you start by listing perfectly valid forms of evidence and dismising them with a "bah" (or in this case, an also acceptable "yadda yadda yadda,") without bothering to explain why this evidence should be disregarded. Then, make a sweeping statement. At this point, a weaker person would offer some form of evidence, but instead, just say "I am not a Sony fan." Once people discover that you are not a Sony fan, they are sure to see the obvious wisdom of you opinion over their so called "facts."

i just have faith in all 100 million of those people who bought PS2s to buy PS3s. I also have faith in the majority of Japanese developers staying with the Sony brand.

I hope I'm wrong, but I can't see Sony losing this gen and having all the business going to MS - especially the Japanese titles.

at worst we'll have an east/west split - the eastern games being on the PS3 and the western on the x360.

and i punched out that post real quick because i was in a rush and REALLY tired of reading all these negative comments about sony. MAN its been like... a freakin YEAR of negative comments about playstation. it was just an "opposite" reaction i guess.

here in vancouver we can't find ANY consoles in the stores - well there are xbox 360s (and with a great bundle too - i think its like 3games + the premium console for 499 CAD).

but no ps3s or wiis.


(i secretly hope the Wii will beat PS3 in Japan - DS vs PSP all over again... *fingers crossed*)

"...but I AM a psychic! Call 1-900-CON-PSYC for a reading today! Only 3.99/minute!"

hehe! i liked that response! but i have no zinger to reply with. : (

....flashback to 1996

yeah yeah yeah doom and gloom for nintendo. they lost their cd partnership with sony, sony thinks they (HA!) can make a better system with more support. the n64 controller is weird and it turns off some people. blah blah blah.

n64 will still sell the most consoles this generation.

and i'm not even a nintendo fan.

cept the public forums for discussing this stuff were really limited. good comparison tho.... : )

[Gorvi]

When the PS3 has games to support it, the 360 will be cheaper.

So you're saying there's going to be a price drop in February when Virtua Fighter 5 comes out?

[Chameleo]

So you're saying there's going to be a price drop in February when Virtua Fighter 5 comes out?

since when is virtua fighter 5 "games to support it"?

thats just one game - if its a wicked-awesomme-fighting game; i accept it as one "game" to support the ps3. maybe 2 if u love resistance (but if u like resistance u should have a 360 b/c there are a lot more shooter options on there...)

i count "games" to support the PS3 when there are at least 5 - 10 titles i want for the machine.....

[mrbandersnatch]

The PS3 needs some graphically/gameplay heavy titles that actually look better than the 360 versions otherwise its going to sink (even in Japan). I can well see this gen going to Nintendo, with Microsoft showing strongly in the EU/US. Its quite possible the PS3 will be a total flop. In order to succeed it also needs to compete DIRECTLY with the 360 on price to have a reasonable chance but can Sony even aford to take that kind of loss per unit?

Personally - unless the PS3 shows a title that is graphically superior (and *significantly* so) to the 360 version by next Christmas then my next console WILL be the 360.

[Chameleo]

The PS3 needs some graphically/gameplay heavy titles that actually look better than the 360 versions otherwise its going to sink (even in Japan). I can well see this gen going to Nintendo, with Microsoft showing strongly in the EU/US. Its quite possible the PS3 will be a total flop. In order to succeed it also needs to compete DIRECTLY with the 360 on price to have a reasonable chance but can Sony even aford to take that kind of loss per unit?

Personally - unless the PS3 shows a title that is graphically superior (and *significantly* so) to the 360 version by next Christmas then my next console WILL be the 360.

i think the japanese are big enough tech geeks to keep the ps3 afloat in japan.

though the recent dominance of the DS speaks otherwise.

[Gorvi]

since when is virtua fighter 5 "games to support it"?

thats just one game - if its a wicked-awesomme-fighting game; i accept it as one "game" to support the ps3. maybe 2 if u love resistance (but if u like resistance u should have a 360 b/c there are a lot more shooter options on there...)

i count "games" to support the PS3 when there are at least 5 - 10 titles i want for the machine.....

Well, in the month or 2 after that you'll have Lair, Motorstorm, Heavenly Sword, and Mercenaries 2, and that's only til the end of March. Plus other mutliplatform games like Oblivion, R6 : Vegas, GRAW2, Bladestorm, Armored Core 4, Assassin's Creed, The Darkness, Virtua Tennis 3, Haze, etc...

From all indications the PS3 will have a much better first year than the 360 had as far as software goes, by far (partially due to the multiplatform games, obviously). Right now it's a newly launching console, anyone expecting a full robust library of games barely a month after launch is an idiot. It'll get there, but it doesn't happen overnight.

[Fartacus]

The PS3 needs some graphically/gameplay heavy titles that actually look better than the 360 versions otherwise its going to sink (even in Japan). I can well see this gen going to Nintendo, with Microsoft showing strongly in the EU/US. Its quite possible the PS3 will be a total flop. In order to succeed it also needs to compete DIRECTLY with the 360 on price to have a reasonable chance but can Sony even aford to take that kind of loss per unit?

Personally - unless the PS3 shows a title that is graphically superior (and *significantly* so) to the 360 version by next Christmas then my next console WILL be the 360.

You'll be avoiding PS3 for quite a long time then. The PS3 is lacking in the GPU department compared to the 360, and time will not fix that.

[Kamalot]

i just have faith in all 100 million of those people who bought PS2s to buy PS3s. I also have faith in the majority of Japanese developers staying with the Sony brand.
Are you a clergyman? That's a lot of faith you got there. With all that faith you've got, you sound like a man of the cloth, or a 64-bit-era Nintendo fan. They had a lot of faith that all those people that owned a Super Nintendo would buy an N64.

All the evidence points to PS3 doing poorly this generation, handing the throne to either Microsoft or Nintendo. 3rd party support is also fleeing Sony like rats from a sinking ship.

But hey, some people believe all kinds of things. :)

[Gorvi]

All the evidence points to PS3 doing poorly this generation, handing the throne to either Microsoft or Nintendo. 3rd party support is also fleeing Sony like rats from a sinking ship.

But hey, some people believe all kinds of things. :)

Care to back this up with some evidence of games being canceled for the PS3? Going mutliplatform when a console hasn't built up an install base yet is a lot different than 'fleeing like rats from a sinking ship'.

[Kamalot]

Care to back this up with some evidence of games being canceled for the PS3? Going mutliplatform when a console hasn't built up an install base yet is a lot different than 'fleeing like rats from a sinking ship'.
Sure

“A lot of the developers I know are waiting out on the first round [of PS3 development] and focusing on handhelds; they’re creating DS and PSP titles because that’s actually a much simpler migration from the current-gen,” (http://www.younewb.com/index.php/2006/11/28/developers-holding-off-on-ps3-development/)

*************

'For us, the PlayStation 3 is a risk' - Koyama

"There won't be enough consoles at launch. Few consoles mean few software sales. We need to wait three or four years. Maybe 2009-2010 is a good time to release a game for the PS3." (http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=18699)

*************

In a new interview the CEO from Atari Bruno Bonnell has said that the company will not be releasing any PS3 games this year. Apparently, they want to wait and see if the PS3 is worth developing for before the company invests any money. (http://www.gwn.com/news/story.php/id/10037/title/Atari_CEO_Confirms_No_PS3_Games_This_Year.html)

*************

Compared to the support other companies are getting AND the support Sony had for the PS2, this news is very disheartening. I'll admit, this isn't developers fleeing like rats from a sinking ship. It is more like business being skeptical of PS3 as a viable business platform (http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/ps3/namco-ps3-games-must-sell-500k-for-profit-218215.php). These stories don't even take into account the companies that are making the switch from PS3-exclusive titles to cross-platform ones either, like you mentioned above. Even if you don't believe that developers are skeptical of the PS3, this is more evidence that simple faith.

To compare, please find similar statements from developers or publishers that state they will not be developing games for the Wii or 360.

Any time a developer comes around and says that they AREN'T making something for your console, it is a damn bold statement.

[SPBTooL]

BTW: I'm getting tired of people tearing into the reds. They're not freaking pinatas, and they're not perfect. Pay them a salary from your own pocket so they can do this full time and then you can bitch at them, eh?! Otherwise, they're moderating a terrific site and deserve a bit of elbow room... :p Great! Now I'm going to have to go name one of my pinatas fitbabits. Hmm, maybe the dancing baboon.

[fitbabits]

Great! Now I'm going to have to go name one of my pinatas fitbabits. Hmm, maybe the dancing baboon.
Wait, you can name your own Pinatas? Awesome! I'm going to have an EvAv garden in that case.

[Gorvi]

Sure

“A lot of the developers I know are waiting out on the first round [of PS3 development] and focusing on handhelds; they’re creating DS and PSP titles because that’s actually a much simpler migration from the current-gen,” (http://www.younewb.com/index.php/2006/11/28/developers-holding-off-on-ps3-development/)

*************

'For us, the PlayStation 3 is a risk' - Koyama

"There won't be enough consoles at launch. Few consoles mean few software sales. We need to wait three or four years. Maybe 2009-2010 is a good time to release a game for the PS3." (http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=18699)

*************

In a new interview the CEO from Atari Bruno Bonnell has said that the company will not be releasing any PS3 games this year. Apparently, they want to wait and see if the PS3 is worth developing for before the company invests any money. (http://www.gwn.com/news/story.php/id/10037/title/Atari_CEO_Confirms_No_PS3_Games_This_Year.html)

*************

Compared to the support other companies are getting AND the support Sony had for the SP2, this news is very disheartening. I'll admit, this isn't developers fleeing like rats from a sinking ship. It is more like business being skeptical of PS3 as a viable business platform (http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/ps3/namco-ps3-games-must-sell-500k-for-profit-218215.php). These stories don't even take into account the companies that are making the switch from PS3-exclusive titles to cross-platform ones either, like you mentioned above. Even if you don't believe that developers are skeptical of the PS3, this is more evidence that simple faith.

To compare, please find similar statements from developers or publishers that state they will not be developing games for the Wii or 360.

Any time a developer comes around and says that they AREN'T making something for your console, it is a damn bold statement.

The first article, from YouNewb, is actually a pretty good read and it makes sense. I really don't see the negative in that. The second, from SNK/Playmore is from February, and really, are they (SNK) really all that relevant anymore? I'd say the same about Atari, what was the last worthwhile product they put out? The 360 right now has the advantage of being a very easy console to produce simultaneously with the PC, therefore making development a less risky endeavor. And the Wii, well, it's last gen hardware with a new interface that Nintnedo's done a good job of releasing development tools for. Being skeptical is natural, but the PS3 will do fine. The PS3 and the 360 will end up being pretty neck and neck this gen worldwide, I really don't see any indication of things turning out differently.

[fitbabits]

The first article, from YouNewb, is actually a pretty good read and it makes sense. I really don't see the negative in that. The second, from SNK/Playmore is from February, and really, are they (SNK) really all that relevant anymore? I'd say the same about Atari, what was the last worthwhile product they put out? The 360 right now has the advantage of being a very easy console to produce simultaneously with the PC, therefore making development a less risky endeavor. And the Wii, well, it's last gen hardware with a new interface that Nintnedo's done a good job of releasing development tools for. Being skeptical is natural, but the PS3 will do fine. The PS3 and the 360 will end up being pretty neck and neck this gen worldwide, I really don't see any indication of things turning out differently.
You're beginning to sound a wee bit desperate, Gorvi.

[Kamalot]

The second, from SNK/Playmore is from February, and really, are they (SNK) really all that relevant anymore? I'd say the same about Atari, what was the last worthwhile product they put out?
Now you are treading on thin ice.

The PS2's strength wasn't in its technical capibilities, but its HUGE library. Sure, the PS2 library is full of totally shit titles, but those titles fill out the shelf. People buy crummy or niche titles.

The moment that you start discounting a developer, you are playing Sour Grapes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sour_grapes).

Sour grapes is the false denial of desire for something sought but not acquired; to denigrate and feign disdain for that which one could not attain.

For success, EVERY developer is important.

[Gorvi]

Now you are treading on thin ice.

The PS2's strength wasn't in its technical capibilities, but its HUGE library. Sure, the PS2 library is full of totally shit titles, but those titles fill out the shelf. People buy crummy or niche titles.

The moment that you start discounting a developer, you are playing Sour Grapes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sour_grapes).

For success, EVERY developer is important.

I don't think discounting Atari would be called sour grapes. Really, I wouldn't miss them if they went away all together. And SNK? You really think the shitty fighting games they put out these days help any console? You're right, the PS2's success was because of it's library, but it's the good to great games that carried it, not the perpetual list of shitty throw away shelf filler. Niche games like Trapt (http://www.1up.com/do/gameOverview?cId=3142205) are what carried the PS2, not shit like Driver (http://www.1up.com/do/gameOverview?cId=3143414).

[fitbabits]

I don't think discounting Atari would be called sour grapes. Really, I wouldn't miss them if they went away all together. And SNK? You really think the shitty fighting games they put out these days help any console? You're right, the PS2's success was because of it's library, but it's the good to great games that carried it, not the perpetual list of shitty throw away shelf filler. Niche games like Trapt (http://www.1up.com/do/gameOverview?cId=3142205) are what carried the PS2, not shit like Driver (http://www.1up.com/do/gameOverview?cId=3143414).
You do know that SNK are responsible for more than "shitty fighting games", right? Metal Slug, anyone?

And the original Driver (http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/psx/driver?q=driver) was awesome!

[Gorvi]

You're beginning to sound a wee bit desperate, Gorvi.

Not really. I have no real investment in any console. While I plan on buying a PS3, I doubt I'd have much trouble getting most of my money back selling it on eBay if I'm not happy with it. I have no problem with that at all. I'll buy a 360 if the games I want are there with no issue. I just don't see the PS3 to be the failure some on here think it to be.

[Gorvi]

You do know that SNK are responsible for more than "shitty fighting games", right? Metal Slug, anyone?

And the original Driver (http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/psx/driver?q=driver) was awesome!

SNK of old was great. SNK now, not so much. Same with Driver, the first one was good, but the next 2? Bleh.

[Kamalot]

I very much enjoy Test Drive Unlimited. It expands the genre of racing games in new and exciting ways. Bravo Atari!

I rented the Dragon Ball Z fighting game for Wii. Never having seen an episode of the show, I had no idea what I was in for. The game is WILDLY fun! So many of my friends loved it, that I just bought the damn game. Crazy fun!

Poo-poo developers all you want, but you just discounted a developer that sold two games for a non-Sony system. That means Atari, Microsoft and nintendo got a slice of my dough.

Edit:
Ms. Kamalot likes the Metal Slug series of games. We used to play them on the original Xbox together. Nothing like laying down some cover fire for your spouse. :D I'll probably pick up the full collection for Wii.

[Balthasar]

You do know that SNK are responsible for more than "shitty fighting games", right? Metal Slug, anyone?

And the original Driver (http://www.metacritic.com/games/platforms/psx/driver?q=driver) was awesome!
Let's not forget Samurai Showdown. Man, did I love that series.

[Balthasar]

Heh, there's that on occasion, but I've developed a thick skin since the early days of my redness when I made some poor calls and failed to live up to the lofty expectations of such a wonderful community.
When did you go Commie again?

[normyk]

SHOCKED! I am absolutely SHOCKED!
I wandered over to the Toys'r'Us this morning to see if the rumors of a vast shipment of Wii and PS3 were true. Everybody was asking for Wii (what a shock) but there were none to be found and they had no idea when more would arrive. So I asked about the PS3. "Oh, we have those." I got about as far as "Is it..." before she said "Sixty gig."
Apparently there is no shortage (or interest) at the local Toys'r'Us (and since there is no interest there is no forced bundling).
It was at the Sawmill Rd store in Dublin, Ohio in case anybody cares at all.

[Rotting]

SHOCKED! I am absolutely SHOCKED!
I wandered over to the Toys'r'Us this morning to see if the rumors of a vast shipment of Wii and PS3 were true. Everybody was asking for Wii (what a shock) but there were none to be found and they had no idea when more would arrive. So I asked about the PS3. "Oh, we have those." I got about as far as "Is it..." before she said "Sixty gig."
Apparently there is no shortage (or interest) at the local Toys'r'Us (and since there is no interest there is no forced bundling).
It was at the Sawmill Rd store in Dublin, Ohio in case anybody cares at all.


Yeah man as I said earlier, same thing in my town. PS3s have been readily available at the local EB (Waterloo, Ont) for the last week.

Wiis on the other hand... :(

[EvenStephen7]

I work for a major videogame retailer, and all of our stores in the district can't get rid of the PS3's to save our lives. And the ones I have sold are being returned after people either (a) changed their minds and got a 360 ( 5 people did this), or (b) found a Nintendo Wii instead ( 3 people did this). The rest are defective. But still, to have people that plunked down money for this excitedly and over the course of a few weeks have a complete 180 in opinion? I've been telling every customer we have them, EVERY customer...people just ask for the Wii instead.

Sony has one helluva uphill battle...

[Gilius Thunderhead]

I hope I'm wrong, but I can't see Sony losing this gen and having all the business going to MS - especially the Japanese titles.

at worst we'll have an east/west split - the eastern games being on the PS3 and the western on the x360.
but no ps3s or wiis.


True - MS wont get the Japanese titles. However, at this point, it is looking like Nintendo will. This distrust in Sony is already evident. Has anyone noticed which console DQIX is coming out on? It is a DS exclusive. Now, tell me, who here was expecting that to hit the PS3, like most of Square's RPG's? Hell, I was mulling over buying a PS3 for it, before I decided I could get both a 360 and Wii for a little over the price of the PS3, and that with games.

[Tyrant]

For every week leading up to the one before this one or two weeks ago, Future Shop and Best Buy's Canadian site would typically put up 30-ish consoles on Tuesday and Wednesday. They used to sell out in minutes.

Today and yesterday, Best Buy and Futureshop's online stores put up about 770 PS3s a various times of the day, but the thing about each bunch of consoles they put up(a minimum of 30 each time) was that it took at least an hour for them to sell out.

The Wii on the other hand, had 120 consoles for sale yesterday morning and it sold out in 5 minutes. For some reason, there have only been spurts of 5 or 6 consoles since then from Best Buy and Futureshop.

It looks as though the overall hype and demand has shifted from the PS3 to the Wii, although said initial demand for the PS3 may have been driven more by profiteers.

[Tyrant]

I didn't know whether I should bother making a new topic about this, but Futureshop.ca apparently put up 1000 60gb PS3s about 3 hours ago and there's still 500 left. So if any Canadians here are looking for one, here's your chance. Otherwise, I must also ask why they haven't released 1000 Wiis as well. ;_;

[Zechs01]

I was in a mall in SD a week ago and went into Planet X games and Ebgames and eb had 4 60gbs PS3 and planet X had 3 60gbs (I think planet X is affiliated with gamestop not sure though)