Sony Says Rival Xbox Not 'Future-Proofed'

[Evil Avatar]

Sony says rival Xbox not 'future-proofed' (http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20050518/tc_nm/gameexpo_sony_dc) is an article on Yahoo News with a few short quotes from Sony's game division CEO, Kazuo Hirai.

Sony Corp. on Tuesday said it would beat Microsoft Corp. in the battle of the next generation of video game machines with advanced technology that would outweigh its rival's early start with its Xbox 360.

Sony took the wraps off its PlayStation 3 game console on Monday and wasted no time in promoting the advantages of its new microchip, high-resolution graphics and next-generation DVD player.

"We want to pack everything in today and future-proof this as much as possible," said Kazuo Hirai, the head of Sony's U.S. game unit, in an interview.

"It's a box made of future technology as opposed to Xbox 1.5, which seems to be a combination of things available today," added Hirai, president and CEO of Sony Computer Entertainment America.

The PS3 will debut in 2006 while the Microsoft Xbox 360 will be out in time for the holidays this year.

[dr_qwandry]

let the flame war begin

[Heretic Machine]

Sony just got bumped back down to third on my list of next-gen console purchases. Good job!

[Borys]

I wonder what will Mason/ BabyJesus say now...

[Evil Avatar]

Sony just got bumped back down to third on my list of next-gen console purchases. Good job!

Funny. Sony is #1 on my "Must Have" list right now. But, I guess I should stay out of the "Who has the bigger RAM?" pissing contests since I already know I'll buy all three systems (and two Xbox 360's and two Playstation 3's).

I've pretty much already picked out my HDTV, now I just need some shelves for my home office so I can do a complete room shuffle and make space for the HDTV and two new console systems.

[Deadend]

Future Proof.... That means the PS3 will work IN THE FUTURE, so the systems should not break down, as you can't say it's future proof if it's broken.

I also dig the stab at the Xbox, 1.5 hoo boy, that was a good one, but they are off by 358.5. I hope MS starts talking shit, so that I can mock them as well.

[sTubbs]

Big words. Now all they have to do is sell the PS3 at the same price [or cheaper] than the 360. Personally, the PS3 is on the top of my list thanks to many reasons, but I have to wonder if Sony can possibly sell it at a competitive price. They have packed so much cutting edge the PS3 that I will be shocked if they can match MS in the coming price wars.

[saneman]

Console manufacturer says their system is better than their competitor's system. And the walls come crashing down.

It's always fun listening to the manufacturers hype up their systems compared to the others. It's kind of like watching the ridiculous excuse for political debate (both sides seem to lie through misdirection at the very least) only without the impending sense of armageddon. Sony in particular seem to be undisputed industry leaders in hyperbole (this in spite of their #1 position) and I really think Microsoft is going to have to put some serious R&D into their press releases. Sometimes it seems like they're really not trying. "three cores vs. one!" ?? Damnit, you need to give your chips a touchy feely name if you even want to play the same game as Sony, guys.

[Liquidize105]

Trash-talking! Trash-talking-talking!

My must-have: Animal Crossing DS, looks so cuuutte! :D That and a used copy of fight night 2.

[H.M._Murdock]

Is there anyone who can confirm this? (http://www.neowin.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=321672&st=0)

Here are the facts: Nvidia uses separate Vertex and Pixel Shaders, ATI uses a Unified Shader which does both Vertex and Pixel Shading using the same Shader. When Nvidia calculates performance, it totals both Vertex and Pixel Shaders running at peak efficiency. When ATI calculates performance, it totals the performance of the single unified shader (composed of both Pixel and Vertex shaders) at peak efficiency. So this means that in order to compare ATI's performance to Nvidia's, you would double the rated performance.

PS3:

CPU=0.25 TFlops

GPU=1.80 TFlops for both Pixel and Vertex Shaders

XBOX360:

CPU=0.18 TFlops

GPU=0.88 TFlops for Unified Shaders=1.75 TFlops for combined Pixel and Vertex Shaders

So the PS3 has a total theoretical of about 2 TFlops and XBox 360 has about 1.9 TFlops (counting Pixel and Vertex shaders separately, as thr PS3 does).

[Fonz]

Just got back from E3 today, Saw both Unreal 2007 and killzone on the 1080i projectors, everything in the xbox booth paled in comparison. If every game can take advantage of the hardware capabilities those techdemos, the ps3 is going to be clearly the superior machine. But then again you have those halo fan boys........

Btw murdock, not be a jerk or anything, but its also how well the cpu and gpu work in unison not just adding flops to the equation. You also have mainboard speeds that have yet to be explained.

[jeffool]

:deleted stuff missing here:

Even then, I'm not a fan of adding the processor speeds like that. What you actually get on the screen is all about the ratio. GPU is the icing, CPU is the meat.

/meat icing?
//yes.

/edited: because I'm a dumbass and can't read properly.

[Heretic Machine]

Just got back from E3 today, Saw both Unreal 2007 and killzone on the 1080i projectors, everything in the xbox booth paled in comparison. If every game can take advantage of the hardware capabilities those techdemos, the ps3 is going to be clearly the superior machine. But then again you have those halo fan boys........

I stopped being impressed by pre-rendered CG movies after the first one I saw. My cheapo laptop can display the same footage just as well.

[bobbler]

Interesting, I'm not quite sure though. You can only use the shaders as one thing at one time, meanwhile the shaders in the nvidia are seperate so they all can be used for what they are made. You use the 48 shaders as pixel shaders lets say, you cannot at the same time use them as vertex shaders -- so I'm not sure what they mean. With the nvidia, you can use the XX (or however many) vertex as vertex shaders while the XX pixel shaders are used as pixel shaders...

I couldn't find the topic at B3D to confirm, still looking though. If it is infact discussed at B3D, I imagine some thought has gone into it and their math is at least somewhat accurate.

[Deadend]

I figured the X360 was sliding scale, so you could have a Max of 48 shaders in use, 24/24 or 8/32. Same with the system RAM, PS3 is 256/256 while X360 is 512 shared.
To my mind, the X360 can do more graphically, in PURE graphics mode, it can throw more RAM at something, or it can drop the graphics quality for more RAM for other purposes.

Of couse, the PS3 is running at faster speeds, and both systems are waay diffrent than PCs or even current consoles.

All I know is the Revolution needs some crazy controllers if they want a chance.

[bobbler]

Let me correct something, again, that bothers me every time its posted.

Same with the system RAM, PS3 is 256/256 while X360 is 512 shared.

The PS3's GPU can dip from either bank of the 256mb without sweating.

You are correct about the GPU being a bit more 'flexible' when it comes to shaders than the PS3, though.

[kid cabelgo]

I think we all just need to get used to the fact that we're going to hear a lot of this sort of trash talking from either side until both systems are finally out.

In the meantime, Nintendo will quietly put out another great console that will have some great, innovative games and do very poorly in sales.

[Beelzebud]

Does Sony have a time machine, or a hype machine?

I'm going with the second choice.

[Furious Wang]

I think Sony is way overestimating the integration speed of future tech into the average household. Top of the line elite hardware is not going to put Sony into the black, especially when they need to make profits off of it. What percentage of households have hdtv right now? How many have two? What percentage in 5 years? Remember when all TV broadcasts were supposed to be HD by the year 2000? Hdtv may be making inroads, but I doubt the two screen tech will be usable by many people and thus not used by developers. Next next gen for sure though.

And BlueRay Video? Demand for aa new video format is a decade off for sure. People are still buying DVD players for christsakes. Cassette to DVD was a leap both quality wise and cool factor wise. DVD to Blueray isn't as significant (Especially with the large majority of films still not being done with HD Cameras). You won't see much of a quality increase on a blueray version of Raiders of the lost Ark. Older films are about as def'd up as they can get. Of course, you can store whole seasons of television shows on one disk, but that alone won't sell a format. Count Blueray as dead on arrival. By the time every home in the US has a HDTV, every movie made is being done with HD cameras, and DVD player saturation has reached 2-3 per home a new format will be out that will make Blueray look like cassette video.

Now, I'm not saying it won't sell because of this, but it just doesn't need so much. And I imagine that Sony will be watching the markets and wno't hesitate to slash features to drop prices if it needs to. However, Sony's unending lust for proprietary formats has clouded their judgement in the past...

[aversion2k]

Xbox 1.5!!! HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!
I cant belive big companys like this resort to the name calling of each others consoles.
I can't wait till they start with the hair pulling and scratching :)

[Furious Wang]

Microsoft: "Well better Xbox 1.5 than PoS3 HA!"

[Vandenh]

Sony isn't even on my buy list. I just can't deal with companies who blatantly lie in your face.

Anyway.. yeah some tech sites have claimed that the ATI GPU in 360 actually has more power than the NVidia one. It will be interesting to see the real numbers once people get their hands on it. Almost all graphics specialists I know (and I know quite a few) seem to be more impressed with the versatility of the ATI GPU. This of course might lead to easier to develop games for 360.

[Dirty Harry]

Sony isn't even on my buy list. I just can't deal with companies who blatantly lie in your face.

Anyway.. yeah some tech sites have claimed that the ATI GPU in 360 actually has more power than the NVidia one. It will be interesting to see the real numbers once people get their hands on it. Almost all graphics specialists I know (and I know quite a few) seem to be more impressed with the versatility of the ATI GPU. This of course might lead to easier to develop games for 360.
So where are they blatantly lying to your face?.

(I'm waiting for a valid response)

[Morratut]

Sony have lied in your face by showing you pre rendered stuff and trying to pass it off as gameplay footage. They are spin doctors. Lying to the public saying this is what our games will look like. It's just not true.

The hype on the PS3 will die down and the truth will be out when you hear developers speaking out about the differences between hardware and the games start coming out.Even if the PS3 is slightly more powerful i'll still be buying the 360 due to it having a solid online plan. :)

[Buddha Lotus]

Is anyone else already bored with this stuff?

[Vandenh]

>Is anyone else already bored with this stuff?

Yes.. time to move on.

Anyway...Morratut replied for me :) Couldn't have said it better.

[Buddha Lotus]

>Is anyone else already bored with this stuff?

Yes.. time to move on.

Anyway...Morratut replied for me :) Couldn't have said it better.


Well.. I mean.. we have a LONG way to go. I cant (cant speak for everyone else) keep up this level of anger that long.

I mean I dont really have a personal stake in either companies or console.. I dont gain anything if one fails. I just want some games. I dont care about teams or sides.

[H.M._Murdock]

Did anyone else catch a rather misleading error in this article?

"It's a box made of future technology as opposed to Xbox 1.5, which seems to be a combination of things available today," added Hirai, president and CEO of Sony Computer Entertainment America.
[...]
The U.S. software giant said the Xbox does rely heavily on existing hardware technology, but Microsoft's software expertise will make it easier for developers to create games and keep costs under control.

I somewhat doubt Microsoft was talking about the 360, but the article sets it up as if Microsoft was validating Sony's statement. Friggen liberal media. ;)

[Stryfe01]

The pne thing everyone keeps forgetting is that none of this PS3 stuff is running on actual hardware. Neither is the Xbox 360, the only thing with the 360 is that they are on Alpha Kits, wheras PS3 is on "mock" hardware. I will be buying both, but please dead the fanboyism...this is what i hate about gaming culture now.

[bapenguin]

Both machines are going to have their own things...and again it'll come down to games. I can't WAIT to see the Live integration this gen. Just playing Forza yesterday, really shows me the devs are starting to realize live's full potential. When you go to pick a race in SP, it will seamlessly download the online scoreboards for that track. You can see who has the top time in the WORLD and what it is. After you are done with the race, your time is entered, and you can see where you are ranked. Want to further your career online? Pick the online career, pick your car class, and you are off to the races against other human opponents.

THIS is what I want to see more of in the future, seemless online integration. I hope ALL 3 CONSOLES can do shit like this...cuz frankly...it's just fucking cool.

[TRiLoGY]

The pne thing everyone keeps forgetting is that none of this PS3 stuff is running on actual hardware. Neither is the Xbox 360, the only thing with the 360 is that they are on Alpha Kits, wheras PS3 is on "mock" hardware. I will be buying both, but please dead the fanboyism...this is what i hate about gaming culture now.

Well said :)

[Dirty Harry]

Sony have lied in your face by showing you pre rendered stuff and trying to pass it off as gameplay footage. They are spin doctors. Lying to the public saying this is what our games will look like. It's just not true.

The hype on the PS3 will die down and the truth will be out when you hear developers speaking out about the differences between hardware and the games start coming out.Even if the PS3 is slightly more powerful i'll still be buying the 360 due to it having a solid online plan. :)
anyone who could not tell that the video was pre-rended is a moron. Anyways, i know that its pretty much futile to attempt a serious discussion about sony because everyone was fooled with their obviously rendered video. They also did not say, this was real time footage of the game did they?, if you can provide me a link saying that they did then yes, they are spinning what they are touting.

/me looks at the majority of this room right HERE.

[Orphiuchus]

"Future proof" has to be the worst saying in the biz. Nothing is future proof, thats all there is to it.

[bapenguin]

Ballmer responds to this. Article at the top of the page.

[Hellstorm]

Xbox 1.5. God I love Sony. +1 PS3

[Ernst_Jager]

Hell no Sony isn't going to admit they were pulling the wool over the media's eyes. Most gamer's realize the Killzone 2 footage (along with almost everything else) was CGI but the general mob hasn't a clue. This was and should be about games...not short CGI movies. Until they can show me why the PS3 is superior to the 360 with actually game footage I couldn't give a rats ass about them.

And this whole 'future-proof' thing. When the PS3 actually comes out won't most of what they have be current tech? They claim the 360 is using present day hardware. I doubt any of us have 3 core CPU's and a custom ATI gpu with 48 pipelines.

I also totally agree 100% with Furious Wang about Blu-Ray. I still see people rent VHS movies when DVD's are all rented out. Does Sony really think that in a year or two people will really care enough to spend $$ to buy new slighty better tech? I would like to see the estimated numbers of the % of households with a HDTV. Your average consumer would rather have a new car/house then a $3,000+ home theater setup.

[Orphiuchus]

Your average consumer would rather have a new car/house then a $3,000+ home theater setup.

Hell, my car isn't even worth half what it would cost me to get a average quality HDTV. I'm playing the next gen on my old TV unless I can pick up a 20+ inch HDTV for 300 bucks sometime here.

[Rakael]

Well.. I mean.. we have a LONG way to go. I cant (cant speak for everyone else) keep up this level of anger that long.

I mean I dont really have a personal stake in either companies or console.. I dont gain anything if one fails. I just want some games. I dont care about teams or sides.

That is probably the most reasonable statement I have heard in a while. Thank you.

[Furious Wang]

anyone who could not tell that the video was pre-rended is a moron. Anyways, i know that its pretty much futile to attempt a serious discussion about sony because everyone was fooled with their obviously rendered video. They also did not say, this was real time footage of the game did they?, if you can provide me a link saying that they did then yes, they are spinning what they are touting.

/me looks at the majority of this room right HERE.


If you think Sony didn't know what they were doing, then I've got a Phantom to sell you.

[CrysDark]

I think Sony is way overestimating the integration speed of future tech into the average household. Top of the line elite hardware is not going to put Sony into the black, especially when they need to make profits off of it. What percentage of households have hdtv right now? How many have two? What percentage in 5 years? Remember when all TV broadcasts were supposed to be HD by the year 2000? Hdtv may be making inroads, but I doubt the two screen tech will be usable by many people and thus not used by developers. Next next gen for sure though.

And BlueRay Video? Demand for aa new video format is a decade off for sure. People are still buying DVD players for christsakes. Cassette to DVD was a leap both quality wise and cool factor wise. DVD to Blueray isn't as significant (Especially with the large majority of films still not being done with HD Cameras). You won't see much of a quality increase on a blueray version of Raiders of the lost Ark. Older films are about as def'd up as they can get. Of course, you can store whole seasons of television shows on one disk, but that alone won't sell a format. Count Blueray as dead on arrival. By the time every home in the US has a HDTV, every movie made is being done with HD cameras, and DVD player saturation has reached 2-3 per home a new format will be out that will make Blueray look like cassette video.

Now, I'm not saying it won't sell because of this, but it just doesn't need so much. And I imagine that Sony will be watching the markets and wno't hesitate to slash features to drop prices if it needs to. However, Sony's unending lust for proprietary formats has clouded their judgement in the past...


I see all these claims and no evidence to back them up.

The penetration of HDTV is much higher than you belive, when the cut off happens (next year to 2 years I bevlive) 56-60% of people are going to buy a new HDTV
Source: http://news.designtechnica.com/article6934.html


Demand for a new AAA video format being a decade off. I reject this based on the tendancy for America to nearly always go for the Bigger, Better, Faster consumer product.


Do you really think sony and the Blu-Ray consortium hasn't done all this reasearch themselves. If they discovered the market would not be ready in 10 years, they would have held off. But the millions they spent in research has showed that the market is ready for a new Medium.

Please from now on back you claims up with facts instead of praticipating in baseless bashing of a console that specs wise is superior than the X360.

Sony wins round one, Specs War. There machine is more powerfull (The Cell Is Real) Source: http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20050425/104149/

Round 2: The console that is the Most Dev Friendly: Undecided, not enough evidence yet.

Round 3: Game Quality, won't know this till 2-3 years into release.

[Kelegacy]

Is anyone else already bored with this stuff?

I'm bored with Xboys getting all fired up and fanatical when some positive news is released for the Xbox1.5, but angry and hateful (and anal) when something positive is released about the PS3. Damn. All i have to do is enter bapenguin's successive newsposts about the Xbox and see the blind hippy love, but enter a PS3 thread and I'm assaulted by mudslinging and whitehot idiocity by the same people.

It's pretty sad, really. Do yourselves a favor and buy all the systems. It's not like Sony fucked your girlfriend while you were at work. You guys seem to see evil phantoms whenever Sony is mentioned.

Dumb.