The Press II: Sony Impressed Everyone

[Borys]

Another day another bunch of articles focused on the E3 expo. The tone hasn't changed that much - Sony comes as a clear winner with Microsoft behind and no Nintendo in sight.

First comes LA Times (http://www.latimes.com/) with these words:

An audience of more than 2,000 was mesmerized Monday by the console's visceral, movie-like graphics as it showed off a game called "KillZone." By Tuesday morning, "KillZone" and PlayStation 3 were the talk of the annual trade show, known as E3, which runs through Friday at the Los Angeles Convention Center.

So game enthusiasts rely heavily on a machine's buzz to determine which to buy. Microsoft tried to preempt its rivals by releasing details of its next-generation console, Xbox 360, Thursday in a prime-time show on MTV.

The move gave Microsoft headlines leading up to E3, but industry watchers said Sony stole the show with its eye-popping demos and copious technical details of its PlayStation 3, slated for release in spring 2006.Next is GamePro.com with an article "Xbox 360 Versus PlayStation 3--Consumer Console Versus Gamer Console" (http://www.gamepro.com/sony/ps3/games/features/45328.shtml):

While techno-geeks can ponder forever the potential ramifications of the specs, Sony spoke most clearly through its impressive demos (both tech and also of actual games), showing the potent console at work. Make no mistake: the PlayStation 3 is utterly superior in graphics to the Xbox 360 from what has been shown.

...

Still, in the end Sony stole the attention for the day. Microsoft's spark was clearly fizzling when it made its surprise announcement toward the end of its press event about working together with Square Enix& to bring Final Fantasy XI (of all games, one that's already been released on PC and PS2) on the 360. Comparing that to the announcement of Final Fantasy XII being released on the PlayStation 3 (not to mention Metal Gear Solid 4 and Devil May Cry 4), it seems Japanese developers are still holding their cards closer to Sony.Don't shoot the messenger.

[Evil Avatar]

While techno-geeks can ponder forever the potential ramifications of the specs, Sony spoke most clearly through its impressive demos (both tech and also of actual games), showing the potent console at work. Make no mistake: the PlayStation 3 is utterly superior in graphics to the Xbox 360 from what has been shown.

Sony didn't show any real games, did they? Didn't they just show CGI stuff? People mentioned to me yesterday that the Killzone 2 footage wasn't in-game (Though it does look like it was using in-game models.).

[Borys]

Evil uhh... can I edit that now?
The whole GamePro part goes out Reuters part comes in?

[Evil Avatar]

Evil uhh... can I edit that now?
The whole GamePro part goes out Reuters part comes in?

I'm not sure what you are asking. If you have another story to submit about the same topic, just submit another story with a short quote and I'll approve it, these are pretty relevant.

[A-Team]

Sony didn't show any real games, did they? Didn't they just show CGI stuff? People mentioned to me yesterday that the Killzone 2 footage wasn't in-game (Though it does look like it was using in-game models.).
From what we've been hearing, the footage shown at Sony's press conference was not CGI footage. As with the video footage, others have told us that most if not all of the screenshots surfacing for the PS3 games are actual in-game shots and are not rendered (aka the Tekken shots I linked in the DOA4 post).

*Edited: I'm the worst journalist in the world because I have failed to differentiate between CGI footage and in-game footage.

Oh wait... this isn't true because I'm almost sure that I said that's what I had heard, not what I was actually reporting.

[Evil Avatar]

From what we've been hearing, the footage shown at Sony's press conference was not CGI footage. As with the video footage, most if not all of the screenshots surfacing for the PS3 games are actual in-game shots and are not rendered (aka the Tekken shots I linked in the DOA4 post).

I think Killzone 2 will rock either way. ;)

[Rafer]

Strange, when I watched the PS3 presentation on gamespot, I thought the SquareEnix guy just said that Final Fantasy XII would be playable on the PS3 using backwards capability.

[Zawath]

From what we've been hearing, the footage shown at Sony's press conference was not CGI footage. As with the video footage, most if not all of the screenshots surfacing for the PS3 games are actual in-game shots and are not rendered (aka the Tekken shots I linked in the DOA4 post).

It was CGI. There are many sources that confirm it. Even the developers of Killzone said in an interview that the video was CGI.

[Borys]

I'm not sure what you are asking. If you have another story to submit about the same topic, just submit another story with a short quote and I'll approve it, these are pretty relevant.

I see, IMO it would be stupid to have 2 similiar newspost one after another so I won't change or submit anything.

Why did you edit the most important thing (comparing 360 to Dreamcast) from the LA article out? I can understand changing my title but not the "meat" cutting.

It isn't available on-line, that's the problem.

[A-Team]

It was CGI. There are many sources that confirm it. Even the developers of Killzone said in an interview that the video was CGI.
Post them then ;).

[Furious Wang]

Sony didn't show any real games, did they? Didn't they just show CGI stuff? People mentioned to me yesterday that the Killzone 2 footage wasn't in-game (Though it does look like it was using in-game models.).

It was all CGI, guys. Unreal 2K7 and Fight Night were the only real-time videos. Its been confirmed over and over again.

Sigh...Sony made tools out of all the lazy journalists out there and tools are meant to be used.

[sTubbs]

Fuck. How can so many supposedly 'professional' websites be overlooking the fact that the PS3 presentations were PRE FUCKING RENDERED. There is absolutely no proof that what Sony showed would actually be possible. I sure as hell hope that it is, but writing off the 360 based on some CG movies is just plain idiotic. Yes, the real time Fight Night and UT2007 demos looked good, but better than the 360 stuff? Nope. Personally, I am leaning towards the PS3 right now, but this 360 bashing is just plain bullshit [especially since the 360 stuff is running on alpha hardware that is 1 to 2 thirds weaker than the final system].

[Adam Blue]

Did Sony really become the clear winner? While the system specs are pretty nice, the multi-core deal has never really been officially explained(but I guess we'll see the explaination come non-CGI footage). While the 360 is supposedly inferior on paper, it offers more for the hardcore gamer.

I'm easily more impressed with the 360. I'll be buying both systems anyway, but Live! is a whole other fucking universe to play in.

[WileE.Coyte]

Me and a friend were talking about this today, If that was ingame footage of killzone there would'nt even have been a press conference. All Sony would have to do is line people up to play a 1 min demo of Killzone, even if that demo was 15 seconds playable,"Sony press conference", There, that's all you need to know. We probally would have seen the first E-3 riot. The headlines would have read Microsoft pulls out of E 3, Revolution cancelled, The big N hopes to gain ground on handheld front. It would be no contest. Why can't anyone play it, because you CAN'T play it. If Sony deliver's on that, I'll gladly print this out, send a video to Evil Avatar of me eating my own words(while playing Killzone 2).

[A-Team]

It was all CGI, guys. Unreal 2K7 and Fight Night were the only real-time videos. Its been confirmed over and over again.

Sigh...Sony made tools out of all the lazy journalists out there and tools are meant to be used.
I was used without giving my consent then. One person says one thing and then another person steps up and says the complete opposite.

It's not about being a lazy journalist, it's about not knowing who to believe sometimes. I doubt you'd understand that though, so I'll leave it at that.

[carneconcarne]

This is how Sony wins. This is how they won last round. Microsoft tried to grab the mass audience by pandering to the MTV crowd, most of whom won't have enough money to buy a console without mom or dad's help. They didn't come out with any jaw dropping videos, just good solid numbers that most people don't understand.

In comes Sony, with a shit-ton of pre-rendered BS and slick visuals. "The system will look this good!" Same thing they did with the PS2. So the mainstream media sees this, says, "Wow, that's better than that shitty perfect dark footage xbox showed." And it gets printed in the mainstream media, where the majority of console gamers get there tech news.

Most people are not gamers, and most people don't read up-to-the-minute e3 gossip. Sony knows that, and by demonstrating the amazing mpeg playback prowess of the PS3, has made some significant gains in this next race, even among people who should know better (here).

[H.M._Murdock]

Why do they even bothering comparing Sony's demo videos with Microsoft’s actual games? Sony's videos aren't real! They pulled this kind of BS last time and I can't believe so many people are falling for it all over again. I know that Sony's presentation was, so I have gathered, way better than Microsoft’s, but they draw solid conclusions on hardware capabilities from that?

The PS3 is launching next spring. What launch games did they show? Does anyone really think there are going to be that much better than the Xbox 360 launch games? All the games for the “launch window” period are rushed. For the 360 it looks like many were moved to the 360 at the last minute. Unfortunately, that’s the vast majority of what MS showed and they certainly are paying the price for it now.

Perhaps, if they had know so many in the press were so gullible they would have made their own tech demo’s showing the theoretical capabilities of the 360, as Sony filled their conference with, and less screaming individuals, hokey phrases, and celebrities there would be less of the feeling (in a few outlets of the press) that the 360 is some kind of gimp compared to the PS3.

[Heretic Machine]

...People still read GamePro?

[Evil Avatar]

Why did you edit the most important thing (comparing 360 to Dreamcast) from the LA article out? I can understand changing my title but not the "meat" cutting.

Because we link to news articles on other pages, we don't quote the entire article verbatim.

[A-Team]

Fuck. How can so many supposedly 'professional' websites be overlooking the fact that the PS3 presentations were PRE FUCKING RENDERED. There is absolutely no proof that what Sony showed would actually be possible. I sure as hell hope that it is, but writing off the 360 based on some CG movies is just plain idiotic. Yes, the real time Fight Night and UT2007 demos looked good, but better than the 360 stuff? Nope. Personally, I am leaning towards the PS3 right now, but this 360 bashing is just plain bullshit [especially since the 360 stuff is running on alpha hardware that is 1 to 2 thirds weaker than the final system].
The 360 bashing is getting a bit out of hand, but that still doesn't explain the confusion (my confusion to be more specific) between the CGI-rendered material and the actual in-game material being presented. The street can and does go both ways... it's just a matter of trying to differentiate between the two directions.

It all boggles my mind, that's for sure. As I said in my first post under this thread, that's what I heard, not exactly what I beleived.

[Borys]

Fuck. How can so many supposedly 'professional' websites be overlooking the fact that the PS3 presentations were PRE FUCKING RENDERED. There is absolutely no proof that what Sony showed would actually be possible. I sure as hell hope that it is, but writing off the 360 based on some CG movies is just plain idiotic. Yes, the real time Fight Night and UT2007 demos looked good, but better than the 360 stuff? Nope. Personally, I am leaning towards the PS3 right now, but this 360 bashing is just plain bullshit [especially since the 360 stuff is running on alpha hardware that is 1 to 2 thirds weaker than the final system].

Oh man, ease up on the hate, will you?

This how it was supposed to be. Sony shows CG, CG is more impressive, Sony wins in the eyes of casuals.

You think they give a fuck about Killzone being CG or not?

[Borys]

Because we link to news articles on other pages, we don't quote the entire article verbatim.

Ok, my bad.
Besides isn't quoting the whole article a copyrights infrigment?

[A-Team]

Oh man, ease up on the hate, will you?

This how it was supposed to be. Sony shows CG, CG is more impressive, Sony wins in the eyes of casuals.

You think they give a fuck about Killzone being CG or not?
He makes a good point though, but I'm not sure what sites he's talking about. There hasn't been a single E3 post on my site that says whether or not X is/isn't CGI material. We've posted various screenshots (rendered and in-game) and footage (CGI, in-game, and presentation), but none of them have been marked in such a detailed fashion.

Ok, my bad.
Besides isn't quoting the whole article a copyrights infrigment?
If you don't have the expressed consent of the individual who produced the material, then it's copyright infringement.

[Reanimated]

This is exactly why MS is fucking stupid. They should've had a CG reel of footage that would be "representative" of the final products. Instead they show a bunch of horse shit running on 1/3rd power alpha kits while Sony is showing CG and tech demos.

[jonaz.dk]

Well I guess Sony's "WOW the crowd with prerenders" tactics worked perfectly..
Some press and alot of gamers will be fooled by this.. and Sony can laugh all the way to the bank.

I'm not saying that the actual level of visuals in Killzone 2 and MotorStorm are totally unachiveable. To some extent they could be achived.. but only after a few more years of engine developement. Certainly NOT after only 2 months of PS3 devkit availability.

Heads up to Microsoft for playing a fair game for a change. And actually showing real titles running on actual hardware.. underpowerd alpha devkits even.

[Heretic Machine]

This is exactly why MS is fucking stupid. They should've had a CG reel of footage that would be "representative" of the final products. Instead they show a bunch of horse shit running on 1/3rd power alpha kits while Sony is showing CG and tech demos.

Ya, but then we'd be bitching that we didn't get to see real in-game footage from anyone.

[Switcher]

I agree with Borys, as long as whoever showed the prettiest stuff, regardless of weather is was achievable or god forbid playable, will always win. I mean, weren't Doom 3 and Half-Life 2 both voted best in show, even when no one had ever played them?

It's kinda disspointing all these "Who won E3 articles???" is taking into account the next-gen stuff only, I would imagine the quality of the games they had onhand and playable would be a better gauge.

[Borys]

This is exactly why MS is fucking stupid. They should've had a CG reel of footage that would be "representative" of the final products. Instead they show a bunch of horse shit running on 1/3rd power alpha kits while Sony is showing CG and tech demos.

That's quite a shocker IMO. After all those years of showing photoshopped Xbox1 screenshots MS is being honest and it backfires on them greatly.

In similiar news Nintendo finally learned to photoshop their images! The new Zelda shots are in 1024 x 768 and anti-aliased.

[zorper]

So the lessen here is only bring CGI to E3?

[Liquidize105]

Hey, it's business. May the sneakier win.

I hope nintendo comes in and blows all of them up to kingdom.

[bobbler]

Heres an interesting tidbit...

In a recent post on the Voodoo Extreme message boards, Epic Games' Vice-President and long-time gamer Mark Reign gave his two cents on the PS3 movies presented at Sony's press conference yesterday in Culver City, California. Here's what he had to say:

In addition to the Sony demos being shown by Phil Harrison, the Epic and EA presentations were the only third party portions actually running on the PS3 in real-time. But most of those movies, which I probably watched three or four during rehearsals for the event, look very achievable and some were probably rendered on the actual box but in non-real-time. When a system is year away, heck even with a system is six months away, it is reasonable to expect the power of the dev kits would still only be a fraction of the power of the final system.

I know we'll certainly be able to achieve much more on the final box than we were able to show in our demo after working with the early dev kit for only ~2 months. As Tim mentioned our demo only really showed off the power of RSX and then still we're talk about an RSX that's nowhere near as fast as the final one will be. When we get home from E3 we'll also start diving seriously into the power of the cell processor. This is a very powerful system!

Sony's cell demos were extremely cool and inspiring but are totally achievable, and over time even surpassable, by third developers like us because, as Tim Sweeney said, the development environment is made up of parts we're already intimately familiar with: OpenGL, NVIDIA graphics, Linux, and PowerPC. Think about Epic's experience, for example. We rock on NVIDIA hardware. We have been doing OpenGL since Unreal 1. We regularly ship our games on Linux and we've won several Macintosh Game of the Year awards including a special World-Wide Design Award directly from Apple for UT2004. We're going to be able to kick serious *expletive deleted* on PS3, and so are a lot of our licensees and other 3rd party developers, in a way that wasn't remotely possible on past consoles.

I should add that we're in a similar position for Xbox 360. It's also made up of parts we're intimately familiar with. My point is that developers are going to be able to get SO MUCH MORE power out of these consoles than they ever could in the past and so much closer to the raw power of the components. The next generation is just going to be AMAZING!!! Next-gen games will be a huge leap forward over current gen. Can you tell I'm excited?

[Switcher]

To be honest, although it's only just begun, this E3 does actually seem kinda boring...well, at least compared to last year. We already knew the majority of what MS would be showing...except the lack of the DreamCast port of Perfect Dark Zero seems kinda suspicious. And while the things Sony was showing were cool...it was basically composed of sequels to games that started back on the PS2, or even PSOne.

I mean...where are those big secret games that we usually get? The only one I can think of is Neversoft's Gun, or Criterion's Black. And both of those just seem to be fancy FPS.

There is a rumor that tomorrow, Nintendo might show some additional Revolution, or some other info directly from the show floor. Although I don't see how that's possible at this point, it was spurred on by some cryptic quotes on Nintendo's official website. But I'm not giving my hopes up.

[Zawath]

There is Alan Wake, which is going to be one of the most interesting games of the event.

[A-Team]

And here we are bitching about Sony's use of CGI footage when stuff like this is starting to surface.

http://www.satori.org/blog/archives/000270.html

The war is on baby!

[Vandenh]

If 360 is indeed a "consumer" console, than Sony is f*cked. MS wins the next gen war.

Still funny that people call it the Killzone "game" :) Oh welll.. the hype will die down and reality will settle in. I find the whole thing rather funny now...

[rein]

You know... ..all of this pointing out that only the Epic and EA demos were real time is pointless.. .both of those demo's were rock solid. All I know is that I was not prepared to buy both this generation and now I probably will... ...damn them both for making such good systems. Nintendo is a given for the novelty.

[Kelegacy]

And here we are bitching about Sony's use of CGI footage when stuff like this is starting to surface.

http://www.satori.org/blog/archives/000270.html

The war is on baby!

Haha, what a bunch of tools.

[sTubbs]

And here we are bitching about Sony's use of CGI footage when stuff like this is starting to surface.

http://www.satori.org/blog/archives/000270.html

The war is on baby!

That is one of the main reasons I am leaning towards Sony, despite my previous rant. Even though they are being just as sneaky as they were with the PS2, they still seem more mature and professional than MS. One way that I agree with the GamePro article is that the 360 does seem aimed at broader audience, and is trying [too hard in my opinion] to capture the *cool* crowd with a lot of flash and pizzazz. Meanwhile, Sony seems to be relying on the fact that they ARE going to maintain a large lead throughout the next generation. Case in point: MS thought they were brilliant in getting FFXI on to the 360. Sony, on the other hand, is getting FFXII on the PS3. Now tell me, what game is more likely to move consoles in Japan?

[zorper]

Good post A-Team. Thanks for bringing us back to reality an reminding us who we are talking about.

[Com_Gaunt]

Who cares who wins the Next-gen war? There are gonna fucking awesome games that will kick major ass!!! wohoooooo!! Just start saving kiddies and you can buy both!!! The question: "Who wins the Next-gen war?" pales in significance to "What's for dinner tonight?" or "What are the chances of the wife giving me some later on this evening?" in my opinion...

[bapenguin]

Again...does it matter who won the "press conference"?

That's not going to influence the consumer, it'll be the commercials and marketing and the reviews of the SYSTEMS when they are launched.

[A-Team]

Good post A-Team. Thanks for bringing us back to reality an reminding us who we are talking about.
Whoa, I didn't say anything about anyone about anything. I was just showing you all what else was going on in our friendly little world. :cool:

[Zawath]

That is one of the main reasons I am leaning towards Sony, despite my previous rant. Even though they are being just as sneaky as they were with the PS2, they still seem more mature and professional than MS. One way that I agree with the GamePro article is that the 360 does seem aimed at broader audience, and is trying [too hard in my opinion] to capture the *cool* crowd with a lot of flash and pizzazz. Meanwhile, Sony seems to be relying on the fact that they ARE going to maintain a large lead throughout the next generation. Case in point: MS thought they were brilliant in getting FFXI on to the 360. Sony, on the other hand, is getting FFXII on the PS3. Now tell me, what game is more likely to move consoles in Japan?

Microsoft made Square their eternal slave. FFXI won't be the only FF game released on the Xbox 360 console, XII will surely be released on it aswell.

[A-Team]

Microsoft made Square their eternal slave. FFXI won't be the only FF game released on the Xbox 360 console, XII will surely be released on it aswell.
I wouldn't go THAT far with the whole FFXI ordeal. There is no way Square Enix will jump the Sony ship with all of the games coming out on the PS2 (FFXII, Dragon Quest VIII, etc.). They may hook MS up with more titles, but their home is and will continue to be with Sony.

[ChrisJohnson]

Sony didn't show any real games, did they? Didn't they just show CGI stuff? People mentioned to me yesterday that the Killzone 2 footage wasn't in-game (Though it does look like it was using in-game models.).

FWIW The Epic demos and something EA showed off was all in-engine, not-pre-rendered.

Also several smaller demos provided by SCEE (mainly ophysics demos and showing off the Cell processing power and such) were also live. The other interesting thing to note is that those demos were rendered using the Cell only; there was no rendering through the nVidia part at all (although the Epic and EA demos were using nVidia's GPU, IIRC).

[MosBen]

I don't have time to read all these comments, so please forgive me if it's been mentioned, but this Sony hype machine is getting really annoying to me, or rather, people's reactions to it. Listen, MS is releasing a system in six months and it looks really good. Sony's releasing a system in at best a year, but probably at least a year and a half in the US. Of *course* it's going to have a bit better hardware than the 360, and of course that's going to result in a bit better graphics, but it's not going to be an unbelievable difference. Look at the current generation. Yeah, there are some Xbox games that look pretty damn good, but the PS2 is still putting out games that though perhaps not quite as good as the Xbox, are hardly anything to sneeze at.

The difference just isn't going to be that big, especially since most of the games are going to be multiplatformers that will be designed for the lowest common denomenator, which looks to be the Xbox this time. There's just no such thing as a revolutionary leap in gaming, it's entirely evolutionary. Games coming out now are pretty much the same level of increased quality over games from a year ago as those latter games are over games from two years ago.

Again, in six months I'm going to be playing some pretty as hell games on the 360 and it will be fun. A year later I'll probably be playing some games on the PS3 that look pretty as hell and it'll be fun too. Will they look better than the 360's launch lineup? Probably about a year better.

Edit: As to why Sony would show prerendered footage, well, I think looking at the reactions from the show I think it's pretty clear.

[Mason]

Borys, Sony's cock has seen a lot of action lately, so I think it'll be okay if you take it out of your mouth for a while.

I'm not anti-Sony. I'll buy a PS3 the second a really good game comes out for it. But you are still acting like a total fanboy, and it is still annoying. Nobody's "won" E3, the only mildly interesting thing Sony showed was FF stuff that has nothing to do with the PS3.

If either company had put out a thousand HD TVs with their next-gen consoles and let everyone in the hall play demos of these launch titles, then they would've won the show. But showing nothing more than fabricated CG scenes is disappointing to everyone except two groups: rabid fanboy console partisans, and lazy disinterested pseudo-gaming journalists. Your posts keep on involving one group linking to the other. It makes the world a stupider place.

[Draft]

I'd like final confirmation of what is and isn't FMV before passing judgement.

If Mark Rein is right, and everything but UT2007 and Fight Night was CG, then MS is sitting pretty and we're in for a grand console war, the likes of which haven't been seen since Sega does what Nintendon't.

If Mark Rein is off and the PS3 is already pumping real time graphics like the Killzone presentation, MS is in trouble.

[VYPUR]

LIVE! will be reason enough for me to get a 360!

[Nath5000]

Whoever says that someone else won over someone else at e3, Congrats, your a complete victim of marketing. Im going to withhold judgements until i hear developers actually say "while porting this game over to the Other console, we could boost the graphics because of the greater capability". To make the assumption that that will happen completely based off of the brainwashing marketing that all of the companies are trying to let you believe, means little. It just shows that one company is better at planting their marketing goal in your head than another and is better at marketing their strategy and message that focuses on their strengths better than the other.

[Offworlder]

If Mark Rein is right, and everything but UT2007 and Fight Night was CG, then MS is sitting pretty and we're in for a grand console war, the likes of which haven't been seen since Sega does what Nintendon't.


The Rein quote is probably about as close to confirmation as we're going to get. If the Killzone 2 footage were in fact real and in-game, I suspect Sony would've been quite clear about it. Instead, they've masterfully obfuscated what it really is.

So I agree. We are in for a spectacular console war. Woo!

What amazes me is how eagerly so many gamers want to pledge allegiance to one side or the other. The truth is, we're all on the side of the consumers. We all stand to benefit the most when the big guys are forced to compete and innovate.

So stop being hype monkeys. Especially you "journalists" for chrissakes.

[Heretic Machine]

I wouldn't go THAT far with the whole FFXI ordeal. There is no way Square Enix will jump the Sony ship with all of the games coming out on the PS2 (FFXII, Dragon Quest VIII, etc.). They may hook MS up with more titles, but their home is and will continue to be with Sony.

Square may be a crappy developert these days, but they're not stupid. They'll go where the money is, and they know they need to start making ties with everyone instead of just latching onto one console, no matter how successful. If the PS3 started failing (it won't) then I'm positive they'd shift major support towards the 360.

[BabyJesus]

And here we are bitching about Sony's use of CGI footage when stuff like this is starting to surface.

http://www.satori.org/blog/archives/000270.html

The war is on baby!


Yep, all the information in a blog MUST be true.. Because, well, it's a blog.

I watched the XBOX conf video today, looked good to me.. I just love the Borys, yes the Borys, scouring the net to prove how anything but the XBOX is better. I'm personally surprised he hasnt dug up an article where someone calls the Phantom better..

I personally think that the PS3 and XBOX 360 look pretty comparable gfx power wise, depending on how much power their CPU can actually dish out that is. I also have my doubts that Sony will be able to push that system for the same price or lower than XBOX 360. The thing is MS has been getting closer to Sony's "great" games lineup and they always have live which Sony is wayyy behind the curve on. Another thing to remember is since the Sony console is so far away, thier specs are probably subject to change.

I don't care reallym the only console that has me questioning why is the Revolution. Which looks like complete and total ass in every aspect. Old Nintendo games to download? Whoop-de-doo. Aren't you all tired of Nintendo resting on thier tired old laurels?

[Balthasar]

I'm not saying that the actual level of visuals in Killzone 2 and MotorStorm are totally unachiveable. To some extent they could be achived.. but only after a few more years of engine developement. Certainly NOT after only 2 months of PS3 devkit availability.

Heads up to Microsoft for playing a fair game for a change. And actually showing real titles running on actual hardware.. underpowerd alpha devkits even.

A few things:
1)How do you know about programming on the PS3 so extensively that you can tell us defintively that it would take "years" of development to achieve what was being displayed at E3? Really, now.

2)What do you mean Microsoft played "fair?" Their whole console strategy has been based around getting the jump on Sony, whenever they would decide to release the PS3. And then there's the whole "Halo 3 on PS3 launch day" thing. If we're talking about "fair," as if they are subject to some rules, than Microsoft thus far has been more cunning, overall (MTV, ourcolony.net, which I think was overblown, as I knew few people that ever talked about it, and never felt compelled to visit it myself). The reason Sony has landed such a blow is because they were able to effectively compare tech numbers with what was talked about with the X-box to make their system sound significantly better. As gamespot said, unless any of us here are actual game programmers for these systems, none of us know which numbers are important, and which aren't. But whatever numbers Microsoft thought would wow gamers, the PS3 can do better. Getting beat at their own game is what that is.

[ChrisJohnson]

One reason why the E3 showing of XBox369 games on the floor is due to the fact that they're not showing on XBox360s.

They're running on G5s, which can only hold a single GeForce 6800 Ultra or an ATI Radeon X800 XT, which forced the resolution on the games down. (http://www.anandtech.com/tradeshows/showdoc.aspx?i=2420) (See Page 5 for the info) Which to me screams both "okay, so they WILL look better" and also "more smoke and mirrors." Which one is more important is up to the beholder.

But in the end, E3 is a marketing show, and almost anyone from a console maker to a developer to everyone else, blowing smoke and using slight of hand to get the most out of the show as possible. I can't think of a single E3 launch ceremony that DIDN'T have pre-rendered or extremely questionable "in engine" demos designed to make people drool, even if they weren't 100% real. Nature of the business... nature of any business really; it's PR. Get over it, and look forward to what we have in store from all the players.

P.S. The article also has a nice look at the XBox360 controllers (which are wired rather than wireless, due to them being on G5s), and they look really sweet. They're practically Dual Shocks, but with the left thumbstick and the D-pad switched around.

[Balthasar]

Again, in six months I'm going to be playing some pretty as hell games on the 360 and it will be fun. A year later I'll probably be playing some games on the PS3 that look pretty as hell and it'll be fun too. Will they look better than the 360's launch lineup? Probably about a year better.


Did Sony actually say the PS3 is being released as late as november or december? I suspect it will be out sooner than that (of 2006, that is). But you make it sound like the PS3 putting out graphics a "year" better than the XBox's isn't significant.

[Heretic Machine]

Did Sony actually say the PS3 is being released as late as november or december? I suspect it will be out sooner than that (of 2006, that is). But you make it sound like the PS3 putting out graphics a "year" better than the XBox's isn't significant.

I believe the PS3 will be released in Spring... so it's only going to be a few months after the 360.

[sTubbs]

I believe the PS3 will be released in Spring... so it's only going to be a few months after the 360.

My guess is that the spring release will be in Japan, and that the PS3 will be available elsewhere in the fall, just like they did with the PS2 and Playstation. The reason for this is that the CELL chip is not even entering production util 2006. Thus, trying to manufacture the millions of consoles necessary in time for a worldwide spring release will indefinitely lead to shoddy hardware. Then again, Sony is no stranger to shoddy hardware, so this would not surprise me.

[A-Team]

Yep, all the information in a blog MUST be true.. Because, well, it's a blog.

I watched the XBOX conf video today, looked good to me.. I just love the Borys, yes the Borys, scouring the net to prove how anything but the XBOX is better. I'm personally surprised he hasnt dug up an article where someone calls the Phantom better..

I personally think that the PS3 and XBOX 360 look pretty comparable gfx power wise, depending on how much power their CPU can actually dish out that is. I also have my doubts that Sony will be able to push that system for the same price or lower than XBOX 360. The thing is MS has been getting closer to Sony's "great" games lineup and they always have live which Sony is wayyy behind the curve on. Another thing to remember is since the Sony console is so far away, thier specs are probably subject to change.

I don't care reallym the only console that has me questioning why is the Revolution. Which looks like complete and total ass in every aspect. Old Nintendo games to download? Whoop-de-doo. Aren't you all tired of Nintendo resting on thier tired old laurels?
No one said it was true, so should I bother reading what you wrote now?

Square may be a crappy developert these days, but they're not stupid. They'll go where the money is, and they know they need to start making ties with everyone instead of just latching onto one console, no matter how successful. If the PS3 started failing (it won't) then I'm positive they'd shift major support towards the 360.
I was looking at from a "how it stands now" point of view, which in turn kept me from taking sides on the next-gen debate.

In a sense, you're right. Square is going to go where the money is regardless of their history with Sony. I don't see such a drastic move happening for at least a few more years, but I do suspect that their move to bring FFXI to the Xbox 360 gives them a chance to test the waters. If all goes well and they can get the sales they want, then maybe we'll see an even split between the PS3 and 360 for new Square games.

Or maybe I'm just getting my hopes up.

[A-Team]

Did Sony actually say the PS3 is being released as late as november or december? I suspect it will be out sooner than that (of 2006, that is). But you make it sound like the PS3 putting out graphics a "year" better than the XBox's isn't significant.
I thought one of the slides during the unveiling said Spring 2006, but I could be wrong.

[Kelegacy]

Square may be a crappy developert these days, but they're not stupid. They'll go where the money is, and they know they need to start making ties with everyone instead of just latching onto one console, no matter how successful. If the PS3 started failing (it won't) then I'm positive they'd shift major support towards the 360.

FF on the Xbox? BLASPHEMY!!


What amazes me is how eagerly so many gamers want to pledge allegiance to one side or the other. The truth is, we're all on the side of the consumers. We all stand to benefit the most when the big guys are forced to compete and innovate.

I've been trying to say this for awhile, but it's still fun to see people defend their favorite companies. If Sony announced that the PS3 could transform into an automaton and satisfy your every sexual desire, the Xbox fans would say "Ugh, well we have Halo--oh and Sony eats babies" and if Microsoft announced that the 360 could be unfolded and used as a bicycle, Sony fans would say "Final Fantasy, MGS and GTA, bitches. Oh and Microsoft eats babies."

There are only a few defenders of Nintendo on this site though, which is sad. I hope the Revolution's revolutionary feature is that when you open the box for the first time, it sprouts legs, rips from it's own packaging, and destroys the Xbox and PS3 on your entertainment center with a mini photon gun. Or, it bangs it to death like the Fruit Fucker.

[A-Team]

FF on the Xbox? BLASPHEMY!!
That's probably the best way to put it. If Square Enix decides to pump out games for consoles, more power to them. Publishers like EA have been pumping out games for every platform on earth for years on end, yet we have quite a few people out there that get flustered over the fact that they may soon have to share the "wealth" that was once exclusive to Sony's brandname.

[BabyJesus]

No one said it was true, so should I bother reading what you wrote now?

You certainly didn't say it wasn't. You just brought it up.

Don't want to read what I wrote, good for you, tool.

[Cpt.Justice]

So uh...is FFXII now a PS3 game or was that a misprint? Making it a PS3 game would be a genius marketing move but I'm really sick of waiting for that damn game.

[ChrisJohnson]

People DEFINITELY take this shit WAY too seriously.

[Nath5000]

So uh...is FFXII now a PS3 game or was that a misprint? Making it a PS3 game would be a genius marketing move but I'm really sick of waiting for that damn game.

No people in here are mistaken. FFXII is still a ps2 game.
As far as next gen goes, xbox will be the only console with a next gen final fantasy game, even if its only a tweaked old gen ps2 game...

Still though, my guess is that FFXIII or the next next gen kingdom hearts or something or whatever square enix decides to make could potentially end up on both consoles.

[Chandler]

It would be utterly mindblowing and one of the best moments in history if Square's huge delay of FF12 was because they were porting it to PS3...can you imagine all the FMVs being real-time!! :O :O :O


but yeah anyways its being released soon for Japan (like within a couple months) and it'll be a winter release for us

and I seriously doubt SquareEnix will release their main FF series on any other platform than PS3, it just makes sense since they don't really port games much (aside from ff11/ff7/ff8). I can see the main ff series on PS3, and the other games (Tactics/Mana/Crystal Chronicles) go on 360/revolution.

[Draft]

If 360 gets a Vagrant Story or Parasite Eve game, I'd be ecstatic.

[mister_slim]

There are only a few defenders of Nintendo on this site though, which is sad. I hope the Revolution's revolutionary feature is that when you open the box for the first time, it sprouts legs, rips from it's own packaging, and destroys the Xbox and PS3 on your entertainment center with a mini photon gun. Or, it bangs it to death like the Fruit Fucker.
I guess I'm a Nintendo defender. I'm glad I can just continue to enjoy Nintendo, while the "It's all about the games" and "It's all about the graphics" claims play musical chairs.

[Heretic Machine]

I've been trying to say this for awhile, but it's still fun to see people defend their favorite companies.

That's because on the internet gamers have a voice, we can reject stuff like this and speak our mind. This allows EVERYONE to become more educated with the gaming press deciding to spread hype, like passing off pre-rendered Killzone footage as actual gameplay. In times past we didn't have this voice, and it brought a lot of negativity down upon us. Think what you want, but the fanboy wars do have positive effects on our lives, and the industry.

[A-Team]

You certainly didn't say it wasn't. You just brought it up.

Don't want to read what I wrote, good for you, tool.
I wouldn't have expected any less of a response from you oh good sir.

I did however read what you posted and I'll agree with you on a couple of points. The first of which is the price ordeal between Microsoft and Sony. I know everyone is saying it's too early to tell where the two will go as far as prices, but I can't see Sony trying to price lower than Microsoft just because of a later market debut. People like us will go with the console that we feel gives us the better bang for our buck because saving up an extra $100 or so isn't as much of a deal as people make it out to be.

The other point you firmly established is the whole Revolution thing. Although I'm quite impressed with the design thus far, I must say that I'm quite skeptical about the support they'll receive once it goes live. I cherish games like Zelda and Mario, but I will not pass my money in Nintendo's direction just to see the Revolution join my GameCube in the closet (which is where it's been since the weekend I purchased it).

Just so there's no confusion, I'm not taking sides with anyone and am waiting anxiously to see what all three companies have to offer in terms of games. The spec sheets have yet to sway my decision, but hopefully the next two days will offer up enough information to at least get me thinking as to which console to go after.

[Mason]

That's because on the internet gamers have a voice, we can reject stuff like this and speak our mind. This allows EVERYONE to become more educated with the gaming press deciding to spread hype, like passing off pre-rendered Killzone footage as actual gameplay. In times past we didn't have this voice, and it brought a lot of negativity down upon us. Think what you want, but the fanboy wars do have positive effects on our lives, and the industry.

No, there's a rational and an irrational way to behave. The rational perspective is to hope that every console out there is a great value and has a whole slew of great games. Even if you only buy one console, after all, what does it hurt you if someone else is playing something different and having fun with it? If a time traveler gave a PS4 to my next door neighbor when I was a child, I still would've had fun with the old NES. Logically speaking, what someone else is playing has no effect on the enjoyment you get from the games you own.

But you see, people suffer from an irrational behavior known as cognitive dissonance. To most people, the ideas "I am a shrewd, well-informed person who makes good choices" and "There's some other console/OS/religion/CPU/nation which might be at least as good as mine, if not better in some ways" are in direct conflict. And to resolve that conflict, you can either 1) accept the fact that the world is a really complex place, and value judgments can have many facets, and even decisions that turn out rather poorly don't necessarily mean that you're a foolish person, or 2) deride that "other" as a worthless piece of crap and exalt the virtues of the option you chose without so much as a pause of unbiased consideration, because really, what kind of an idiot wouldn't immediately see the vast benefits of whatever it was you chose?

People tend to go for number two. Go figure.

But it gets really old, really terribly old, and we're pretty much stuck with it the rest of our lives, because humanity in general isn't wising up at a very encouraging rate. Marketing, in fact, is purely designed to convince people that the product purchasing decisions they make most certainly do reflect heavily on them as persons. A population which has so internalized this message that they consider bickering about product choices as a form of leisure is ill. Deeply and fundamentally.

[Buddha Lotus]

I think what allot of peopel are having problem with teh XBOX 360 is that it has a bunch of "CRAP" on it (not my word) that has nothing to do with gaming.

I have read in allot of blogs, usenet.. etc that many many people were put off that Microsoft had a bunch of xbox "fanboys" right below the screen... and that all that instant messaging and music and media stuff that has nothing to do with games was very lame and useless.

[Spigot]

That "FFXII for the PS3" line really grabbed my attention. I couldn't find anything on the net to confirm it and according to Gamespot's E3 roundup it's still a PS2 game, so I'm breathing a little easier. Sure, it'd be great if it was PS3, except that I'd have to try to sell a kidney to buy one to play FFXII.

Sigh.

[A-Team]

That "FFXII for the PS3" line really grabbed my attention. I couldn't find anything on the net to confirm it and according to Gamespot's E3 roundup it's still a PS2 game, so I'm breathing a little easier. Sure, it'd be great if it was PS3, except that I'd have to try to sell a kidney to buy one to play FFXII.

Sigh.
Here's what the fact sheet says:

FINAL FANTASY XII

Developer: Square Enix Co., Ltd.
Publisher: Square Enix, Inc.
Platform: PlayStation®2 computer entertainment system
Genre: RPG
Rating: RP (Rating Pending)
North American Release: TBD

It'll hit the PS2 first, but I'm not sure when.

[Syrinx]

I think what allot of peopel are having problem with teh XBOX 360 is that it has a bunch of "CRAP" on it (not my word) that has nothing to do with gaming.

This is actually something that I like about the new Xbox. I have a modded Xbox so I can run XBMC to access all my music in other rooms. It will be nice to have access to all my stuff out of the box. Especially if I can stream audio from a windows PC while playing a game.

[KNOTE]

Ok, I was at E3 yesterday and I saw both what sony and ms were showing. Nintendo's booth was a ghost town. Sorry Ninty fans, but the DS was not a show stopper. Neither was Zelda, though it looks to add to the already massive gameplay mechanics of wind waker.

Anyway, it comes down to this: Sony showed videos of conceptually what their guys will think their ps3 titles could look like. They showed 0 real time footage running on actual ps3 hardware. Now, this really payed off for them because apparently games "journalists" think that is better than actually seeing what developers have built. I disagree.

Now at the MS booth, the 360 games looked good but only Gears of War had graphics that you've never even dreamed of. The rest looked really really good, but were not pants-wetting. Now this tells me that next gen development has a really steep learning curve. Artistic talent is going to matter almost more than anything. Especially for characters. Everyone can build an engine that does good lighting/physics and all that poop. And it helps average stuff look great.

Aside from the graphics pissing contests, there was almost 0 new gameplay shown at E3 this year. Maybe a handful of titles like Condemned, Kameo. Even Okami, which i had high hopes for seemed to be just about smashing pots with your wolf's head. It's basically Zelda gameplay with a cool visual style. Shadow of the Colossus wasn't that impressive either, sadly. It's a sword-brawler on horseback with nice art direction now. But almost everything else was war, drive, shoot.

And all of the AAA games were shown behind closed doors or in theaters with 2 hour waits. So lame. Oh and rockstar didn't let anyone get into their booth without a press appointment.

Hey rockstar: you suck. If you're afraid to let the public play your games, don't show up. It's E3 for crying out loud. And the rest of you, if you're going to use theaters, make the demos shorter and the capacity larger. I'm looking at you Call of Duty 2 people! 5 public allowed in every 25 minutes!??? ARRRG.

[MosBen]

Again, not enough time to fully catch up, but to the people saying that it's going to be released in the Spring, well I'll bet that's Spring Japan release. Microsoft is making a point of talking about how closely their release dates for the big three markets are, but I don't hear any of that out of Sony (though with a release still a year away that's to be expected). Anyway, without any evidence to the contrary I'm going to assume that the historical precedent will hold true and that Sony will release in Japan first and the US around six months later. They'll also really want to hit the Christmas season in the US if possible, so I'm betting late fall '06 for a US release.

[erasmus]

But it gets really old, really terribly old, and we're pretty much stuck with it the rest of our lives, because humanity in general isn't wising up at a very encouraging rate. Marketing, in fact, is purely designed to convince people that the product purchasing decisions they make most certainly do reflect heavily on them as persons. A population which has so internalized this message that they consider bickering about product choices as a form of leisure is ill. Deeply and fundamentally.

Well said, Mason, good post. But hey, I still like to see the fanboys fight it out, until it degenerates into pure namecalling. And it's fun to make predictions over who's going to rock our gaming worlds.