IBM to Kids: Study Math & Science if You Want to Make Games

[The Continental]

IBM (http://www.ibm.com), in a recent community outreach endeavor, allowed middle school students into its New York microchip plant (http://www-03.ibm.com/press/us/en/pressrelease/20674.wss) which produces chips for Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo.East Fishkill, NY - 29 Nov 2006: IBM (NYSE: IBM) highlighted the deep science behind the latest video games and encouraged middle school students to pursue careers in math and science at an open house at the company’s $3 billion East Fishkill, New York, microchip manufacturing center (http://www.ibm.com/chips/), which produces the chips that power the latest systems from Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo.

IBM will distribute an education package, including print, video and other multi-media materials, to members of IBM’s On Demand Community (http://www.ibm.com/ibm/ibmgives/), IBM’s global volunteer initiative with nearly 80,000 employees and retirees, highlighting the technology behind the latest video game systems and encouraging students to embrace math and science education (http://www.ibm.com/ibm/ibmgives/grant/education/) at an early age. Educational sessions at East Fishkill were led by Dr. Michael Nelson, IBM’s director of Internet Technology and Strategy. “The introduction of next generation systems from the leaders in video gaming offers a unique opportunity to reinforce the importance of math and science education at the earliest possible age,” said Nelson. “Kids love gaming, and math and science make games possible.”

IBM has a strong history of encouraging students to study math and science so that they are prepared for future technical careers. Through numerous programs beginning in the pre-Kindergarten years through high school, IBM is reaching out to students and teachers to introduce math and science, support interest in these subjects, and encourage students to continue their studies."If you believe in yourself, drink your school, stay in drugs, and don't do milk, you can get work!"

[MajSheppard]

This is a no brainer article.

I just wanted to give props for the Mr. T TV funhouse quote.

[bean19]

It's actually not all that true though. Math is one of the least needed skills for game design as physics are the specialty of a certain type of coder. Most people won't need to learn this. Coders should as they may need to do physics, but other people will rarely need anything past high school math.

Learning science is a no-brainer because everyone should learn every area of science in my opinion as knowing the basic rules by which the universe operates is always helpful. Game designers should take advance studies. biology and psychology in order to understand living things better as most motivations stem from biological and/or psychological stimuli.

However, computer artists should focus on art classes, including the creation and study of art, as well as art history, architecture, and basically expose themselves to all forms of art and media.

Game designers should learn the basics of coding, art design, and should otherwise get a general education where they learn about everything BUT advanced math (well, beyond high school math anyway - a thorough understanding of Algebra, Geometry, and enough Calc to pass a Physics course - all high school subjects). They should also take communication, English (literature and writing - especially creative writing and the study of popular fiction), and psychology and drama courses (you can't write good characters or construct fun gameplay if you don't understand people).

[Johan]

Seems to me, like any business, it's a multi-disciplinary effort and approach that produces games.

And I don't think I would want to be a programmer, banging out code for hours on end. Bah.

[zorper]

An interesting statement from a company moving all of its engineering operations to India as fast it possibly can.

Our kids will need that Math and Science to get the french fries right.....

[alleycatsphinx]

Lies told to children are an international instition as old as time itself, keep the tradition alive.

[IrateRecluse]

The overwhelming majority of game makers, even programmers, don't often touch calculus, it's true. BUT there are number of other fields of math (combinatorial, probability, and discrete math) that are absolutely at the heart of game design itself. Hell - probability as a field of study essentially STARTED when people started studying how to win at poker and other games. If you want to explain WHY Ms. Pac-Man has good mazes, you're going to have to resort to the language of graph theory or some approximation of it (amongst other things).

And I disagree about what artists need to know. It's true that IF a person is honestly content with always being solely a pixel monkey who takes orders and poots out textures, then yeah, no math needed. But every single artist I've ever known has been keenly interested in contributing to game design too, and if all you know how to do is shove pixels around Photoshop, you'll be a net drag on your team as you make recommendations that don't take game design into account. If you need proof, go track down any game where the lead designer was an animator and, as a result, the player only accepts input between every gorgeous, frustrating, 15 second long animation sequence.

[WastelandDan]

Seems to me, like any business, it's a multi-disciplinary effort and approach that produces games.

And I don't think I would want to be a programmer, banging out code for hours on end. Bah.

Definitely true, science and math may produce the code that the game is built on but without artists, writers, and concept people we'd still be playing pong. Hell, at the Valve website itself they have a notice saying that if you want to apply for a job with them and there isn't a position open that fits into your specialty, send in your resume anyway and maybe they'll find a need for you.

[motor]

Don't underestimate how technical art and design is becoming in games. Being a really top notch animator is no long just about moving some bones around, as the amount of content needed is escalating we need animators and content artist to do an increasing amount of technical work. Artist routinely make shaders now, the requires some real understanding of math. Animators routinely create animation trees that blend dozens of animations based on the state of characters.

Designers are getting tools that becoming more and more like speciality programming languages. So they too need to become more techincal.

It's kind of hard to say what kind or level of math is best, but everyone should at least have trig, geometry, statistics and probability down cold. While that doesn't mean a person has to know calculus, learning calculus makes you really understand these "simpler" areas of math more fully.

It is very frustrating to talk to a designer that doesn't understand the math behind balancing a game...and they don't end up going far in the field.

[ElectricMonk]

It's actually not all that true though. Math is one of the least needed skills for game design as physics are the specialty of a certain type of coder. Most people won't need to learn this. Coders should as they may need to do physics, but other people will rarely need anything past high school math.

Learning science is a no-brainer because everyone should learn every area of science in my opinion as knowing the basic rules by which the universe operates is always helpful. Game designers should take advance studies. biology and psychology in order to understand living things better as most motivations stem from biological and/or psychological stimuli.

However, computer artists should focus on art classes, including the creation and study of art, as well as art history, architecture, and basically expose themselves to all forms of art and media.

Game designers should learn the basics of coding, art design, and should otherwise get a general education where they learn about everything BUT advanced math (well, beyond high school math anyway - a thorough understanding of Algebra, Geometry, and enough Calc to pass a Physics course - all high school subjects). They should also take communication, English (literature and writing - especially creative writing and the study of popular fiction), and psychology and drama courses (you can't write good characters or construct fun gameplay if you don't understand people).

It is completely true because without math and science games don't exist. So math and science do make games possible.

[bean19]

It is completely true because without math and science games don't exist. So math and science do make games possible.

My point is that the emphasis is misplaced, and I even outline how basic knowledge of math is important and a very strong knowledge of science is important to everyone. Reread my post.

I've taken lots of math and the truth is though people like motor talk about the need for it, the truth is that that applied math is easy and smart people who have graduated high school (at least from my generation) will already know it. Most of the higher maths are still hanging around because they are so important for engineering and physics. Statistics and probability are applied maths and are part of the curriculum for the most entry level of college math courses - business math. Learn your formulas and how to apply them practically and you've got it. A smart person with high school mathematics could have this explained to him or her in less than an hour or two of training at work.

However, engineers who tend to think in math will always think it is super important. I think that everyone should study human behavior and literature, but the truth is that engineers probably don't need that for technical jobs (though it would be helpful, just as math is useful for designers).

[OUX]

It is completely true because without math and science games don't exist. So math and science do make games possible.

True but creativity, the arch nemesis of math and science, is what makes them worth playing.

[Ailer]

True but creativity, the arch nemesis of math and science
That is a misconception. Creativity is abound in both, how else would we get some of the more interesting theories? In high school math and science however, you are correct.

[Switcher]

Don't do sleep, and don't forget to get 8 hours of drugs every night!

[bean19]

That is a misconception. Creativity is abound in both, how else would we get some of the more interesting theories? In high school math and science however, you are correct.

Agreed. Some of the things in science and math help you imagine concepts you couldn't otherwise understand - like a constantly expanding universe.

[ElectricMonk]

My point is that the emphasis is misplaced, and I even outline how basic knowledge of math is important and a very strong knowledge of science is important to everyone. Reread my post.

I've taken lots of math and the truth is though people like motor talk about the need for it, the truth is that that applied math is easy and smart people who have graduated high school (at least from my generation) will already know it. Most of the higher maths are still hanging around because they are so important for engineering and physics. Statistics and probability are applied maths and are part of the curriculum for the most entry level of college math courses - business math. Learn your formulas and how to apply them practically and you've got it. A smart person with high school mathematics could have this explained to him or her in less than an hour or two of training at work.

However, engineers who tend to think in math will always think it is super important. I think that everyone should study human behavior and literature, but the truth is that engineers probably don't need that for technical jobs (though it would be helpful, just as math is useful for designers).

I am an engineer and I do think in math so yes I guess I do think that math is super important.

But you're responding to the ea news title "learn your math to work on games" and I'm responding to the actual IBM article which states that video games would not exist without math.

You don't HAVE to be great at math to work in the games industry right now, but if you want to guarantee employment it will help more than anything.

[destoo]

One cool thing that was posted on the intranet last year is the opportunity of taking early retirement from IBM to go teaching math/science. I would have taken that offer, but I've been there 4 years, and still am tad too young for retirement.

[Pretzel]

You know, I don't expect every programmer to be a math genius, but it's damned frustrating working with a coder who doesn't have a good understanding of math.

At a previous job, they had promoted a guy with no math skills to lead coder. It was appalling to see the crap code he would write because he didn't understand the math he was using (from what I could tell, he basically got by by copying similar code from other parts of the program). One of the final insults was when he asked me to help him look over his son's highschool math homework. Not that I minded helping, I just couldn't believe the stuff he wasn't able to do.

If you're going to be a coder, please, please, please, study math. At the very least, it will make you more valueable as a coder, and give you a greater chance of getting a good salery.

[alleycatsphinx]

There is an over abundance of people with very myopic cultural knowledge in the games industry. Sure, you only need math and science, and perhaps art - but you don't need to know how to write, or to have read and understood literature or human nature, or traveled extensively - because these things are nonexistent in the games and game industry people.

If you focus strongly in math you can easily learn past calculus, and then use that in programming. Or you can learn photoshop, 3ds, maya, etc... and have no idea what a quaterion is. But, unless you are some kinda genius, you probably didn't have time to do much else besides master those things.

But yeah, this is in response to the EA title, which was somewhat mocking a strawman of the article. This critique is doubly removed =).

[Xerxes]

There is an over abundance of people with very myopic cultural knowledge in the games industry. Sure, you only need math and science, and perhaps art - but you don't need to know how to write, or to have read and understood literature or human nature, or traveled extensively - because these things are nonexistent in the games and game industry people.

Wait are you serious? Math and Science is all the industry needs.

I don't think math and science are the only studies to making game. Hell, normally I thought it was only math(business) and art(artist). And while not working in the industry just yet, I no that's not it. Thank gawd. Several writers/designers are getting around just fine in the industry. Producers are filled by people other than a lead programmer doing cause no one else is. Voice acting, sound engineers and music done by composers. Math was probably it in the infancy stages of gaming but you need a little more than that lately.

And about the people who read and understood literature or human nature, or traveled extensively. Games are interactive art and the storytelling would be stronger and knowledge and concepts can be borrowed from all sorts of literature. Human nature, that's AI as much as math is. The concept of taking cover is human nature. Or having a NPC team member bring you a med pack when your laying flat on your back but not dead yet. We need to get as much as possible from understanding human nature to get better AI. Traveled extensively wouldn't hurt for level design. Anything can compliment the process. Sure without the math for programming there just words on the pad but with them, things would still be sorta lame.

[bean19]

I recently shifted from a computer science degree to a computer information systems degree and I'm finally onto a general studies degree.

The curriculum I have had explained to me by developers on sites like Gamasutra and by speaking to them at E3 is a broad one with the emphasis I stated in my first post. The degree is important, but what is more important is having a good portfolio.

Now, if I wanted to be a coder, I think that higher maths MIGHT be useful, if you are doing physics. I've seen game code, and the only time I've seen anything that goes past basic algebra has been when physics were involved. That happens a lot now, and even though most of it is "already written" or can be learned through referencing books on it, a good coder should be able to make it from scratch or modify existing code intelligently. Additionally, coding is really a whole lot LIKE math, so being great at math can lead to excelling at code (especially since professors of coding courses are generally engineers who also think in math).

I agree that it is extremely important to coders and I haven't ever stated anything differently. My point is the one that Xerxes is making. . . game-development is not limited to jobs for programmers.

[Xerxes]

That's funny I was expanding upon your original point bean19.

[bean19]

That's funny I was expanding upon your original point bean19.

Yeah, I got that. I was clarifying my point.