Playstation 3 Unveiled!

[Morrolan]

GameSpot (www.gamespot.com) has complete coverage. (http://www.gamespot.com/news/2005/05/16/news_6124681.html?q=1&tag=gs_hp_topslot_click)
And without further ado, here's your snippet:
Out of the box, the PS3 will have the capability to support seven Bluetooth controllers. It will also have six USB slots for peripherals--four up front and two in the back.

Sony also laid out the technical specs of the device. The PlayStation 3 will feature the much-vaunted Cell processor, which will run at 3.2 Ghz, giving the whole system 2.18 teraflops of overall performance. It will sport 256mb XDR main RAM at 3.2 Ghz, and have 256MB of GDDR VRAM at 700mhz.

I'm past the point where I believe that sticking numbers side by side will show relative power. Show me a PS3 exclusive taking full advantage of the hardware, and looking as good as, or better than, Gears of War. THEN I'll be impressed.

Editor's Note: Thanks bobbler, sTubbs, A-Team, and Plac1d for their submissions on this.

[bobbler]

CPU: Cell Processor
PowerPC-base Core @3.2GHz
1 VMX vector unit per core
512KB L2 cache
7 x SPE @3.2GHz
7 x 128b 128 SIMD GPRs
7 x 256KB SRAM for SPE
* 1 of 8 SPEs reserved for edundancy
total floating point performance: 218 GFLOPS

GPU: RSX @550MHz
1.8 TFLOPS floating point performance
Full HD (up to 1080p) x 2 channels
Multi-way programmable parallel floating point shader pipelines

Sound: Dolby 5.1ch, DTS, LPCM, etc. (Cell-base processing)

Memory:
256MB XDR Main RAM @3.2GHz
256MB GDDR3 VRAM @700MHz

System Bandwidth:
Main RAM 25.6GB/s
VRAM: 22.4GB/s
RSX: 20GB/s (write) + 15GB/s (read)
SB: 2.5GB/s (write) + 2.5GB/s (read)

System Floating Point Performance: 2 TFLOPS

Storage: HDD - Detachable 2.5" HDD slot x 1

I/O: USB: Front x 4, Rear x 2 (USB2.0)

Memory Stick: standard/Duo, PRO x 1
SD: standard/mini x 1
CompactFlash: (Type I, II) x 1

Communication: Ethernet - 10BASE-T, 100BASE-TX, 1000BASE-T) x 3 (input x 1 + output x 2)

Wi-Fi: IEEE 802.11 b/g

Bluetooth: Bluetooth 2.0 (EDR)

Controller:
Bluetooth (up to 7)
USB2.0 (wired)
Wi-Fi (PSP)
Network (over IP)

AV Output
Screen size: 480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i, 1080p
HDMI: HDMI out x 2
Analog: AV MULTI OUT x 1
Digital audio DIGITAL OUT (OPTICAL) x 1

Disc media: CD, PlayStation CD-ROM, PlayStation2 CD-ROM, CD-DA, CD-DA (ROM), CD-R,CD-RW, SACD, SACD Hybrid (CD layer), SACD HD, DualDisc, DualDisc (audio side), DualDisc (DVD side), PlayStation2 DVD-ROM, PLAYSTATION3 DVD-ROM, DVD-Video, DVD-ROM, DVD-R, DVD-RW, DVD+R, DVD+RW

Blu-ray Disc: PLAYSTATION3 BD-ROM, BD-Video, BD-ROM, BD-R, BD-RE

PS1 and PS2 backwards compatibility is kinda snazzy. That was one thing I was actually kinda worried about (not a big deal either way though).

[TheEpicOfTyler]

That is as ugly as sin.

That being said, I can't wait. :)

[sTubbs]

Interesting to see that this is indeed considerably more powerful than the 360. 2.18 teraflops is absolutely fucking MASSIVE. I have to question Sony's wisdom in calling the graphics processor a 'Reality Synthesizer' though - it brings up to many memories of the 'Emotion Engine'.

[IndependentGMR]

I'm looking forward to all of the next-gen consoles, but I pray that Sony will change that controller. It looks aweful.

[EvilBob46]

Looks good to me...but together with the XBOX 360 design it's painfully obvious that this isn't exactly the era of sexy console designs.

[bapenguin]

HDMI, 1080p...hot damn. Not sure about the design...the controller...fugly.

[sTubbs]

I'm looking forward to all of the next-gen consoles, but I pray that Sony will change that controller. It looks aweful.

I don't care how it aesthetically pleasing it is, but DAMN that thing looks uncomfortable.

[Morrolan]

If I remember correctly, wasn't MS touting a single terraflop? Now, I have no idea what a flop is, but I'm thinking that 2.18 of them is better than 1.0.

Oh-ho! The wheels are turning, now!

[crazyfrazee]

Yeah, looks like the ps3 tops the 360?

[sTubbs]

I just saw that a next gen GTA was also confirmed for the PS3. That alone means that this console will be in my TV room.

[Savok]

Who the hell calls anything a Teraflop?

Either way, the backwards compatible will be nice if I ever pick one up.

[Deadend]

2 HDMI out... hmmm, and it looks like it had 3 RJ--45 connectors, or none, as there were what appeared to be 2 USB ports on back, 2 HDMI, a standard AV out from PS1/2, a big AC in.

I do not like the controller, it's also bluetooth, and bluetooth mice/keyboards have a delay on them, compared to regular wireless and wired.

7 controllers... what the hell? that just seems odd, but what with the 2 HDMI out and a standard AV, maybe the system is powerful enough to have a 7 person deathmatch output onto 3 TVs... yeah, right.

[Morrolan]

And yes, there has never been controller which looked as rediculously terrible as that PS3 controller. Granted, I'm newschool, but if the original XBox controller is Paris Hilton (nasty,) then that thing is Rosanne (super-nasty.)

Seriously. I don't believe that there has ever been a human being with hands large enough to have thumbs resting on the sticks and finger resting on the shoulder buttons. Unless, of course, that thing is much smaller than I'm thinking, in which case the shape will make it terribly awkward. Just a monstrosity. I actually suspect that it's a fake, snuck in with legit stuff somehow.

[TrackZero]

If I remember correctly, wasn't MS touting a single terraflop? Now, I have no idea what a flop is, but I'm thinking that 2.18 of them is better than 1.0.

Oh-ho! The wheels are turning, now!

It's one thing to claim theoretical performance, another to deliver it. I'll worry about how the games look once the systems are out.

[A-Team]

It's no problem.

[TrackZero]

And yes, there has never been controller which looked as rediculously terrible as that PS3 controller. Granted, I'm newschool, but if the original XBox controller is Paris Hilton (nasty,) then that thing is Rosanne (super-nasty.)

Seriously. I don't believe that there has ever been a human being with hands large enough to have thumbs resting on the sticks and finger resting on the shoulder buttons. Unless, of course, that thing is much smaller than I'm thinking, in which case the shape will make it terribly awkward. Just a monstrosity. I actually suspect that it's a fake, snuck in with legit stuff somehow.

You know, with the way those handles jut out....I wonder if you could jab both a persons eyes out with one gouge of that thing.

[crashedout]

Remeber this is Sony, they tend to over-inflate their CPU power...remember the PS2? That being said, HDMI at 1080p and 1000TX is very interesting. Why two HDMI though? And that controller, you can say a lot about MS but their hardware has good ergonomics, why would I want to play with a boomerang? The games will tell the truth, lets see them and then decide.

[moron]

So much for leaving a game case, temporarily placing a DVD while you change discs, etc. on top of PS3. That dome is a case of aesthetics over function. Also, I think that it would be better to call this system "Spiderman 3" with the font choice they went with.

=)

The controller is also butt IMHO.

So where does the hard drive go exactly?

Cheers

[A-Team]

So much for leaving a game case, temporarily placing a DVD while you change discs, etc. on top of PS3. That dome is a case of aesthetics over function. Also, I think that it would be better to call this system "Spiderman 3" with the font choice they went with.
Oh... my... lord.

I was JUST talking with someone about that, except I said it was the Spiderman 2 font (same thing right?).

I guess I'm not insane after all.

[crashedout]

A couple more things:

1080p: no tv is speced to take that as an input yet, this must mean that new sony tv's will change that.

Blu-Ray: Supposed to come with the next version of DD and DTS, the PS2 had trouble outputing regular DD in games, what about now?

[baz]

That dome is a case of aesthetics over function.

Maybe, but it could have to do with the bad ass amount of hardware they are packing in, and a cooling system or something.

It looks good enough to go in my messy ass lounge anyway. So shit, it looks like I'm going to have to get all 3...

[sTubbs]

Does anyone have a line on the price yet? With those components, I find it very hard to believe Sony will be selling this thing at 300 dollars. Mind you, if MS comes out tonight and says that is what the 360 will be selling at, Sony will have no choice but to follow suit.

[Dr.Finger]

I hope and pray that that isn't the final controller for the PS3

[Kelegacy]

i love the USB slots and the support for a huge number for controllers. I dont know if i really like the design--okay, i think it's kinda ugly, and the 360 actually looks better in this round--but hot damn! It looks like with the games coming out for this thing, MS will have to rely on more than Halo to take even a tiny lead. GTA? I'm there. MGS? I'm there. And those specs...jesus christ. I cant believe the backwards compatability with their 2 previous systems. That's ill and a fuckin godsend. Talk about massaging the shoulders of the consumer. Awesome. And the thing is supposedly easy to develop for? Thank the heavens, YES!

I'm going to leave now. The pessimist in me was expecting something totally crap, that they'd actually hand MS the crown with an inferior product.

I was wrong. (for now)

[falak]

Remember, they're planning on mass producing the processors, so they eventually won't cost as much. As for the rest, who knows?

[Kelegacy]

did i miss something? Where is the controller pic? I havent seen/cant find it.

[the_ham_dog]

URL to the controller pic?

[A-Team]

Controller pic:

http://www.filerushnews.com/gallery/album176/aaf

Posting the official PR now. I'll let you all know when it's done.

[CrysDark]

The price will be free with 20 referals

[bobbler]

I'm sort of surprised by the controller, PS1 and PS2 controllers (DS1/2) were two of my favorite controllers of all time. That controller reminds me of one of those third party DS2 ripoff controllers.

The console itself looks good enough for me. Sexy stuff.

[A-Team]

The price will be free with 20 referals
Make that 120ish referals, the number that keeps on growing thanks to EA folks like you and me. :eek:

Before anyone hops on my back, I was only kidding around. The referals are important, but getting the news out there (to me) is evenly as important.

[Kelegacy]

jesus, i need to hold that controller in my hands in order to NOT scoff at it. It doesnt look good...Fuck, the S and Wavebird blow this out of the water, at first look. And second.

Are these just renders? I know the system WILL look like this, but are they real pictures or CG?

[mulligan]

From GameSpot

To show off the PlayStation 3's graphical brawn, Sony showed several game demos, including an Unreal 3 tech demo of what appeared to be Unreal Tournament 2007. In what must come as a relief to developers, Epic Games' Tim Sweeney was on hand to vouch for the PS3, saying it was "easy to program for" and that Epic had received its first PS3 hardware two months ago. He proved the tech demo was real time by showing it again and by manipulating the camera and zooming in.

i dont know what microsoft has under wraps, but if they planning for halo 3 to do ANY damage as billy wants it, they have to pull something out of their inmensurable deep pockets to top this... but as we stand in this very moment, here.. at the end of all things.. sony will dominate this generation again...


or i could be wrong :p

[falak]

The RSX is more powerful than two GeForce 6800 Ultra video cards, which would cost roughly $1,000 total if purchased today. Holy fucking shit. How much ARE these machines going to cost? The money's in the software, I guess...

[Savok]

Hey do they have anything that ISN'T a sequel?

[ElectricMonk]

i'm curious to see how these specs really stack up to the xbox360. eventually we'll have more complicated specs released, specifically for it's gpu. you notice that the gpu is 1.8 of those tflops and the cell processor just being .2. so the cell isn't responsible for the extra numbers at all.

[Hieremias]

The only thing that surprises me is how little RAM there is. And I have the same complaint with the Xbox 360. I don't get it, why such massive processing power but only 256 or 512mb RAM? I have a full gig on my PC today, and these consoles are supposed to last for, what, 5 years? Will 256 or 512mb be enough 5 years from now? And given how cheap RAM is, why handicap the machine like this?

The Xbox's mere 64mb is what killed it, it's what ruined all those concurrently developed Xbox/PC titles (Deus Ex 2, Thief 3, Kotor). Such a small amount of memory seriously limited the size and detail of environments that developers could create. So why didn't they learn from this mistake?

Everything else about both of these machines is very impressive. It'd better be, this hardware has to stay current for five years. I just don't understand why they wouldn't include more system memory. It's not like the RAM is the expensive part of the machine.

[Offworlder]

The support for all these HD modes is nice and all... but unless Sony requires the games to use these modes, ala the X360, I doubt you're going to see many games take advantage. And the potential for 1080P, while lovely, is about as likely to be used in a game as Jonathan Frakes mating with a banana...

http://digilander.libero.it/navearchimede/figure/banana.htm

Er...um....

[kathode]

Sounds like a beast, but that's honestly one of the ugliest controllers of all time.

[Syrinx]

i'm curious to see how these specs really stack up to the xbox360. eventually we'll have more complicated specs released, specifically for it's gpu. you notice that the gpu is 1.8 of those tflops and the cell processor just being .2. so the cell isn't responsible for the extra numbers at all.

That was the same question I had. What would the system performance for the X360 be if you included the GPU performance?

[kizke]

That controller makes baby Jesus cry.

[Derwin]

I remember first seeing the Nintendo 64 controller and being like "holy crap only a hermaphrodite alien could hold that" ...who knows, maybe we'll still like it. I gotta hold it, and I have pretty big hands so alot of stuff is comfortable to me.

...and I thought the same exact thing with the Spiderman font. That's the first thing I actually looked at.

[bobbler]

i'm curious to see how these specs really stack up to the xbox360. eventually we'll have more complicated specs released, specifically for it's gpu. you notice that the gpu is 1.8 of those tflops and the cell processor just being .2. so the cell isn't responsible for the extra numbers at all.


That was the same for the xbox2, same sort of ratio at least.

The xbox2's cpu's pump out 115.2gflops, the rest is from the gpu, for a combined 1tflop.

[mixuk]

The Cell alone can do 0.218 teraflops. The RSX (gpu) can do 1.8 teraflops. And they simply combined the values, so it's not "real" processing which can be used in anyway you want.

[Stryfe01]

Looks ok. Sorry not impressed by the preview games. Give me something other than sequels to look at. This feels rushed at it's core. I really don't think MS will gain that much of a lead if Sony launches in March..So I see no need to rush this.

[Derwin]

Looks like the PS3 was made to go underneath the XBox 360. Could there be provocative, forbidden love going on?

[Savok]

An update on the controller. According to my mother, it's bigger then you think, the large moon shape is so it fits around waist, the prongs are arm rests.

It all makes sense now.

[yerok]

just submitted this as a news item, not sure if I did it right though... Found this on MSNBC, looks like a script didn't embargo the news correctly.

^THE FOLLOWING MATERIAL IS EMBARGOED FOR RELEASE AT 10:30 p.m. EDT
At a Monday evening news conference, Microsoft unveiled further details on upcoming games.
It plans to have between 25 and 40 games available for the Xbox 360 by the end of the year, including ''Final Fantasy XI,'' a sequel to the wildly popular Japanese role-playing game. Microsoft also said Electronic Arts, the world's largest video game publisher, would be releasing a lineup of games, including ''Madden NFL.''
The company said it would not release pricing details until late summer or fall, but said ''Xbox 360'' would be backward compatible with approved games for the original Xbox.

[bobbler]

Final Fantasy XI is on PS2, its an MMO..

FFXII is coming to PS2 already, so who knows what that is talking about.

[Rommel]

Holy crap, can this be the truth? I suspect that MS will be scrambling once they have digested this. Power was their claim to fame this generation... does anyone else think they might up the specs on their own machine hearing this?

Also, where do you see the new controller?

[megatron666]

The only thing that surprises me is how little RAM there is. And I have the same complaint with the Xbox 360. I don't get it, why such massive processing power but only 256 or 512mb RAM? I have a full gig on my PC today, and these consoles are supposed to last for, what, 5 years? Will 256 or 512mb be enough 5 years from now? And given how cheap RAM is, why handicap the machine like this?

The Xbox's mere 64mb is what killed it, it's what ruined all those concurrently developed Xbox/PC titles (Deus Ex 2, Thief 3, Kotor). Such a small amount of memory seriously limited the size and detail of environments that developers could create. So why didn't they learn from this mistake?

Everything else about both of these machines is very impressive. It'd better be, this hardware has to stay current for five years. I just don't understand why they wouldn't include more system memory. It's not like the RAM is the expensive part of the machine.
You have a gig of ram in your pc but how much ram do you have on your video card? That's what really matters for graphics. Your gig of memory on your pc is going to everything that is running. (i.e. windows, itunes, firefox, etc.) That's why you need so much ram for your pc. But with a dedicated console, all you are doing is playing games (or watching a dvd I guess). You don't need nearly as much ram.

It looks to me that the PS3 has 256M of video ram and another 256M of system ram. That seems fine to me. $500 video cards right now have 256M of ram so it seems that the PS3 will have a top of the line video card in it. Plus, if need be, I'm sure developers will be able to dip into the system ram if they have to.

Also, in an earlier post someone asked what FLOPS means and who uses this term (i.e. teraflops). FLOPS stands for FLoating-point Operations Per Second and people who stress test supercomputers use the term.

http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/F/FLOPS.html
http://www.top500.org/lists/2004/11/

[Draft]

From GameSpot



i dont know what microsoft has under wraps, but if they planning for halo 3 to do ANY damage as billy wants it, they have to pull something out of their inmensurable deep pockets to top this... but as we stand in this very moment, here.. at the end of all things.. sony will dominate this generation again...


or i could be wrong :pYes, maybe you should wait till MS actually reveals the damn thing (MTV doesn't count) before discounting them from the console race. Have you seen Gears of War? Which is basically UT2007? Running on the Xbox 360?

Jesus, fanboys :mad:

[mister_slim]

That was the same question I had. What would the system performance for the X360 be if you included the GPU performance?
1 teraflop. You think MS doesn't know how to spin numbers? I wonder what the Revolution numbers will be. I hope Nintendo doesn't even bother with the silly bigger flop contest.

Looks to me as though the controller is the same size and layout with smaller thumbsticks. Any sign of triggers?

[Odwalla]

Holy crap, can this be the truth? I suspect that MS will be scrambling once they have digested this. Power was their claim to fame this generation... does anyone else think they might up the specs on their own machine hearing this?

Microsoft isn't like easily impressed fan-boys. They're not going to panic and scrap the 360 just because of some bullet points in a presentation that is naturally biased, since it was given by the manufacturer.

Even if they are reactionary panic-mongers they can't just change the 360's specs at a moment's notice. The 360 is what it is. The dev kits are out, the engineering has taken years, developers are entering the later stages of development for launch titles (games have to be done by August to be tested, certified, and in boxes by Thanksgiving), and be certain that to make the XMas sales season there is a factory over in the Pacific rim that is already spitting out finished 360s. It would be impossible for Microsoft to change the 360 now. That window closed probably a year or so ago.

Besides, Microsoft has XBox Live 2. Nothing in Sony's presentation really led me to believe that they have anything on par with Live. Maybe, *MAYBE* GT5 will have multiplayer, but I doubt it.

[bapenguin]

i think it's pretty hard to compare the numbers right now. It's like comparing an Intel and AMD processor.

[ElectricMonk]

That was the same for the xbox2, same sort of ratio at least.

The xbox2's cpu's pump out 115.2gflops, the rest is from the gpu, for a combined 1tflop.

well i figured that the xbox2 would be including the gpu numbers. the xbox 2 is using some next-gen ati chip though, which is based on a bunch of evolved directx standards. no details are known about the RSX programmable capabilities at this time, so there is massive opportunities for numbers that don't align depending on these details.

if the rsx shader programming is designed oddly it may not be possible to get full performance or even near. it might end up being exactly like the ps2, it'll take devs 3 years before they figure out how to use it properly.

[bobbler]

I can't imagine this is much of a surprise to anyone that the PS3 is a bit more powerful than the xbox360 (I'm sure microsoft knew this too, they're fine with it) -- there have been reports from devs here n there. Accept it, but now be ready for the same "How can anyone play stuff on xbox360, the graphics suck" type garbage that the xbox people gave the ps2 fans.

Remember, system power doesn't exactly mean a whole lot. Xbox was superior in power to ps2/gamecube, but that didn't really change much. Its all about the games.

[bobbler]

well i figured that the xbox2 would be including the gpu numbers. the xbox 2 is using some next-gen ati chip though, which is based on a bunch of evolved directx standards. no details are known about the RSX programmable capabilities at this time, so there is massive opportunities for numbers that don't align depending on these details.

if the rsx shader programming is designed oddly it may not be possible to get full performance or even near. it might end up being exactly like the ps2, it'll take devs 3 years before they figure out how to use it properly.

Ugh... Don't even start with that.

Its an nVidia GPU, it supports direct x just like ati chip does (direct x is a different section of microsoft, its in their best interest to support anyone who wants to accept directx). The numbers have nothing to do with what api they support, anyways. If you believe the specs of the xbox360, then you have to believe those of the ps3, its the same amount of marketing fudgery going on.

I was wondering if this would start... People fully accepting the xbox360 numbers but not on the PS3.

[sTubbs]

i'm curious to see how these specs really stack up to the xbox360. eventually we'll have more complicated specs released, specifically for it's gpu. you notice that the gpu is 1.8 of those tflops and the cell processor just being .2. so the cell isn't responsible for the extra numbers at all.

I too, am skeptical. I am hoping that we will soon get to see some unbiased head to head action comparing these two beasts side by side. I am not exactly a tech head, so a lot of these numbers have no real meaning to me - I am basically in the 'bigger is better' crowd. In any case, I think that the games will generally look very similar for quite some time until the true secrets of each console is unlocked. What I do know for sure is that I will be getting both the PS3 and 360 without a doubt. Now I just have to see what Nintendo will serve up tomorrow morning.

[ElectricMonk]

well there's also the whole anti-aliasing thing too. the xbox360's edram aa solution (http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/8111/Xbox-360-Graphics-Chip-Patent/) that should make things a bit prettier. even on the released ps3 shots there is no aa.

not sure how much it will matter if you're running at 1080i though

[Hieremias]

You have a gig of ram in your pc but how much ram do you have on your video card? That's what really matters for graphics. Your gig of memory on your pc is going to everything that is running. (i.e. windows, itunes, firefox, etc.) That's why you need so much ram for your pc. But with a dedicated console, all you are doing is playing games (or watching a dvd I guess). You don't need nearly as much ram.

It looks to me that the PS3 has 256M of video ram and another 256M of system ram. That seems fine to me. $500 video cards right now have 256M of ram so it seems that the PS3 will have a top of the line video card in it. Plus, if need be, I'm sure developers will be able to dip into the system ram if they have to.

Also, in an earlier post someone asked what FLOPS means and who uses this term (i.e. teraflops). FLOPS stands for FLoating-point Operations Per Second and people who stress test supercomputers use the term.

http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/F/FLOPS.html
http://www.top500.org/lists/2004/11/
I have 256mb on my vid card, equal to this PS3--but then I don't expect this vid card to last me five years. And it's only a Radeon 9600XT.

Anyway, I heard all these same arguments five years ago. "Without Windows you don't need so much RAM." Sounds nice, but in reality the Xbox's small amount of memory ended up being a bottleneck. Warren Spectre himself said "What we wouldn't have given for 128mb of RAM." (Granted, it was part of his "please don't judge me for my shitty Deus Ex sequel" apology, but still...) I guess I don't know enough about the engineering, but I just don't understand why they handicap these systems like this. Just watch, in a few years PC elitists will be pointing at the lack of RAM in the next-gen systems to explain why concurrently developed titles have severely limited or barren environments. It's certainly a legitimate complaint with the current generation of systems, I don't understand why they're making the same mistake again.

[mondain98]

Fucking curved? That's the dumbest thing I've ever seen for a console that's supposed to integrate with an existing home audio/video world that lives on flat surfaces. Way to screw up and look stupid, Sony.

[WileE.Coyte]

I was reading the posts, before the article, and was thinking oh boy, the controler fanboy's are at it again. I'm sorry, that thing is the dumbest looking controler i've ever seen. I hope that's some kind of rushed model, and THEY CHANGE IT! My Lord is that hideious. On the specs part, I cast a weary eye on Sony when it comes to technical abilities, are there going to be armed U.N. Gaurds outside the Chinese manufacturing plant to make sure the Chinese military does'nt seize them to put in their missle guidance system's?

[Balthasar]

Looks ok. Sorry not impressed by the preview games. Give me something other than sequels to look at. This feels rushed at it's core. I really don't think MS will gain that much of a lead if Sony launches in March..So I see no need to rush this.

So what were the original IP Microsoft carted out to generate excitement over the Xbox 360? Surely you don't mean Perfect Dark Zero (which, if you know Rare, probably won't make it for launch--actually, if you're excited about PD0, you better hope it won't make the launch). I'm guessing Halo 3 has absolutely nothing to do with it too, so perhaps you can enlighten me?

[Balthasar]

In any case, I think that the games will generally look very similar for quite some time until the true secrets of each console is unlocked.


Hahaha, not if those Perfect Dark Zero screens are any indication of the early batch of Xbox 360 games.

What I do know for sure is that I will be getting both the PS3 and 360 without a doubt. Now I just have to see what Nintendo will serve up tomorrow morning.

Lucky you. Both consoles intrigue me greatly, but I will probably sit on my hands for a few months after both of these are released, so I don't get stuck with the "wrong console" for 400 bucks.

[sebastard]

why is everyone yammering on about the specs? Didn't anyone else watch those 2 videos at the bottom of the article??

That Killzone footage made me piss my pants, and Motor Storm looks bonkers. I'm not sure if I want an Xbox 360 anymore, or if I want to wait for this thing..

[Cubfan]

yeah I thought it was just the predictable 'the console and controller designs suck ass' when in fact both would be perfectly acceptable... but damn that controller does look goofy. The console looks damn good though, if not entirely practical in design.

[Balthasar]

I can't imagine this is much of a surprise to anyone that the PS3 is a bit more powerful than the xbox360 (I'm sure microsoft knew this too, they're fine with it)

Perhaps you don't come here often. Well over a month ago, there were easily 5 different speculative threads in the span of one week talking about how the Xbox 2 had a more powerful processor than Cell, despite the fact that Microsoft borrowed chip tech from IBM. A bunch of other really asinine predictions.

there have been reports from devs here n there. Accept it, but now be ready for the same "How can anyone play stuff on xbox360, the graphics suck" type garbage that the xbox people gave the ps2 fans.

Hahaha, not here man. Outside of the few Nintendo fanboys, it seems to be predominantly Microsoft "fans." I expect more of what has been happening in this thread--complete denial of Sony's specs, not three days after completely blind acceptance of Microsoft's specs.

[Morrolan]

The only thing which looked even remotely in-game was the Killzone footage. And that looked A-GODDAMNEDMOTHINGHUMPING-MAZING. The beginning, up until the view locks into the player's perspective, is undeniably jaw-dropping, but I guess that could be spiffied up. But the rest? It would be harder. And even that looks absolutely stunning.

The ball is in your court, MS. Good serve, but it's been returned. Take another swing. You had better have something that is as immediately astounding as the new Killzone footage.

As to the rest of it, it's completely throwaway. There is no way to tell if it's real in-engine footage, so why even bother getting excited? Killzone was the only thing that showed gameplay.

[mulligan]

did you see the *REAL* UT2007 RUNNING REAL FUCKING TIME shots on the ps3?


fanboy my ass..

[Kelegacy]

So what were the original IP Microsoft carted out to generate excitement over the Xbox 360? Surely you don't mean Perfect Dark Zero (which, if you know Rare, probably won't make it for launch--actually, if you're excited about PD0, you better hope it won't make the launch). I'm guessing Halo 3 has absolutely nothing to do with it too, so perhaps you can enlighten me?

No shit. Sequels are abound. Pointing out that "fault" with Sony and not Microsoft is a flaw in and of itself. I for one am glad for a GTA sequel, cant get enough of that!

I can't imagine this is much of a surprise to anyone that the PS3 is a bit more powerful than the xbox360 (I'm sure microsoft knew this too, they're fine with it) -- there have been reports from devs here n there. Accept it, but now be ready for the same "How can anyone play stuff on xbox360, the graphics suck" type garbage that the xbox people gave the ps2 fans.

Haha, so true! I have had it with people dismissing great games on PS2 because they "look like poop". It's their loss. But no, if Sonyboys do any of that yammering next round, the Xboys will use the same defense..."graphics dont mean everything", which is TRUE, but you didnt see them saying that this round. Face it, fanboys who look at systems INSTEAD of games are retards. They should be lining up so I can smack them in the mouth.

[Kelegacy]

The only thing which looked even remotely in-game was the Killzone footage. And that looked A-GODDAMNEDMOTHINGHUMPING-MAZING. The beginning, up until the view locks into the player's perspective, is undeniably jaw-dropping, but I guess that could be spiffied up. But the rest? It would be harder. And even that looks absolutely stunning.

The ball is in your court, MS. Good serve, but it's been returned. Take another swing. You had better have something that is as immediately astounding as the new Killzone footage.

As to the rest of it, it's completely throwaway. There is no way to tell if it's real in-engine footage, so why even bother getting excited? Killzone was the only thing that showed gameplay.

I think that if hardware limitations on the PS2 werent so restrictive, you would have seen more of a "Halo-killer" from Killzone. Maybe this round Killzone can become more of the game it was hyped to be.

[XenonCJ]

Ok, forgive my ignorance, but how is the PS3's ONE 3.2Ghz CPU faster than the THREE XBox360 3.2Ghz CPUs???

[Nessus]

I just look at Killzone 2 screens, then look at Perfect Dark 0 screens. No comparison.

And I'm not even a Sony fan.

[Morrolan]

To be fair, PD0 looks not-so-great. Look at Gears of War, then look at Killzone 2. That's a fairer compairison.

[bobbler]

Ok, forgive my ignorance, but how is the PS3's ONE 3.2Ghz CPU faster than the THREE XBox360 3.2Ghz CPUs???


Easy. PS3's Cell has 7 cores in it (1 is disabled or used for ecc, not sure which, heard a couple different stories on it, regardless 7 usuable cores) instead of 3 like xbox360's.

[Balthasar]

Ok, forgive my ignorance, but how is the PS3's ONE 3.2Ghz CPU faster than the THREE XBox360 3.2Ghz CPUs???

Speed is not as important as you think (notice the specs sites like HardOCP focus on the most are not processor speed). If you look at Intel and AMD chips, you will see that AMD processors run quite a bit slower than Intel chips, while producing performance at or (according to some) above the performance of Intel chips. And to extend the comparison a bit further, PowerPC chips in Apple computers have been "lagging" behind AMD and Intel, if you think Ghz are the most important determinant to cpu performance. Yet neither processor compare to the ability of the PowerPC chip to handle video and animation and music.

[KDups]

Well I'll say that I'm a big fan of the front-loading DVD drive. So slick, I've always loved those over the trays. That controller though? Looks like a Sidewinder. Batman's Sidewinder.

Can't wait to play these things.

[Kagger]

"How can anyone play stuff on xbox360, the graphics suck" type garbage that the xbox people gave the ps2 fans.

I know some obnoxious xbox fanboys, who are literally blind to games' Half-Life sucked bad graphics, xbox is sooooo much more powerful than ps2, piece of ****"

It's just gonna be funny to see them lose the lack of argument they already had...

[XenonCJ]

Easy. PS3's Cell has 7 cores in it (1 is disabled or used for ecc, not sure which, heard a couple different stories on it, regardless 7 usuable cores) instead of 3 like xbox360's.I don't see 7 cores, I see 7 SPEs... Whatever those are.

It clearly says on the spec sheet:
"CPU: Cell Processor
PowerPC-base Core @3.2GHz"

Notice the lack of an "S" on the end of the word "processor".


Last I checked, the XBox360 uses 3 PowerPC-base CORES @3.2GHz... Am I wrong?

[Thenetcase]

Meh.. I have to admit.. as much as I don't like sony... that crap is looking pretty freaking nice. And fast. With the physics engine hardcoded... just like I've always wanted. yeeeeeah. nice.

[Phades]

Specs? I don't really care. I'd like to see a real-time demonstration of a next-gen game from any company. All of those videos were unexciting except for the Killzone one. That one still looked like CGI but I'd love for it to be in-game..... I seriously doubt it though. Regardless, I think Sony did a better job on the initial impression than MS did.

[Lexicon]

I don't see 7 cores, I see 7 SPEs... Whatever those are.

It clearly says on the spec sheet:
"CPU: Cell Processor
PowerPC-base Core @3.2GHz"

Notice the lack of an "S" on the end of the word "processor".


Last I checked, the XBox360 uses 3 PowerPC-base CORES @3.2GHz... Am I wrong?

Yes. The cell processor is a bit of a different animal then standard pc processors, but without getting into too much depth the SPEs are seperate specialist cores that work with the main core to process data. So assuming there isnt anything funny going on with Sony hype, the PS3 processor takes the Xbox 360 processor out behind the woodshed. Not that power alone determines the best console.

A bit of info follows:

The Cell processor consists of a general-purpose POWERPC processor core connected to eight special-purpose DSP cores. These DSP cores, which IBM calls "synergistic processing elements" (SPE), but I'm going to call "SIMD processing elements" (SPE) because "synergy" is a dumb word, are really the heart of the entire Cell concept.

[bobbler]

Each SPE is essentially a different core.

An SPE is like a core, it runs a thread on its own, independant of the other SPEs, has its own 'cache', etc.

I don't have much faith in you understanding it; we've had discussions about CPUs n such before in the PhysiX thread, you totally disregarded logic there, so I can't imagine you'll accept it here.

[Hewie]

3.2ghz/2.18 teraflops isn't far off from the projected 4.0ghz/2.56 teraflops Sony leaked back in February.

I'm excited.

[Adam Blue]

And I thought the 360 specs were effin' insane. Would there really be a big difference in graphics? I'm speaking from the devs point of view. I just don't see 360 getting Quake 4 and Raven skipping straight to Quake 5 for PS3, using a engine made in 2008.

And what's withy the dome top? I put things on my systems. I got My DC controller on my Dreamcast, my Street Fighter gamepad and Gradius on my PS2, a bunch of dust on my Gamecube, and a fucking sperm-whale on my XBox. That's right, a fucking sperm-whale.

[Hellstorm]

+1 PS3
-1 X360
and
? Rev for me.

Sony will be the first to rule 3 generations in a row.

[dr_wily]

uhh i have a wavebird on my gc

this whole multi processor thing is gettin a little crazy, but please people dont compare.

both systems are probably tuned specifically to handle the exact 60 fps on the tv resolution etc, compared with pcs that run wierder/higher resolutions, background applications/services, and a more ad hoc memory architecture.

[Mason]

Fucking curved? That's the dumbest thing I've ever seen for a console that's supposed to integrate with an existing home audio/video world that lives on flat surfaces. Way to screw up and look stupid, Sony.

I'd be willing to bet that the heat output of this generation's consoles will be sufficient that you wouldn't be able to stack things on them anyways.

[MentallyInept]

Ok... I have just spent the last 3 hours of my life looking at the footage/information about the PS3. And here's my take:

1. Raw Power. PS3 twice the processing power of the X360. That's the way it is. It makes me sad to say this as I was completely floored by the supercomputer specs that *** showed only a few days ago. Sony 1, MS 0.

2. The Games. ALL OF THE FOOTAGE THAT THEY SHOWED AT SONY'S PRESS CONFERENCE WAS IN GAME. Except the FFXII CG SquEnix showed. People are having a hard time realizing this because the graphics are going to be just that good in the next generation. That's not to say the X360 graphics are going to suck. They aren't. But, seeing Killzone, MotorStorm, Fight Night Next Gen, etc... *** has some big shoes to fill. Until I see the X360 in game footage this is going to Sony as they seem to be AHEAD of *** in terms of development. Once again this is a tentative score. Sony 2, MS 0.

3. The Controller. This is going to be a huge debate until people actually get their hands on the PS3 and the X360 controllers AND the design is finalized for the PS3. In case you didn't look closely, they were using PS2 controllers in the tech demos. To me, that says that the PS3 controller design is still being tweaked. Take the DS for example. People saw that thing last year and its rounded design was scoffed at heavily. Then the release version was made quite a bit sexier. BUT, as it stands right now, MS wins this category. Sony 2, MS 1.

4. Online. Sony gave quite a bit of vague information about thier network, but they clearly indicated a global network is in the works, possibly very similar to that of Xbox Live. The PS3 showed potential in this area but MS was the only one to get online right THIS generation. Sony is the one with the shoes to fill in this area. Sony 2, MS 2.

5. Tilt. Dispite the scores being even coming into this area, this is where I share my personal feelings about the systems. All in all, Sony has my money at this point. Reason? I really was much more impressed by the raw power by Sony, and quite frankly, they have the developers. Final Fantasy is going to be on PS3, Metal Gear Solid 4 will be on PS3, Tekken 6 will be on PS3. Halo is good, but is only one game. Sony 3, MS 2.

There's how it stands to me.

Don't like it? Convince me otherwise and back up your claims.

[Balthasar]

this whole multi processor thing is gettin a little crazy, but please people dont compare.

both systems are probably tuned specifically to handle the exact 60 fps on the tv resolution etc, compared with pcs that run wierder/higher resolutions, background applications/services, and a more ad hoc memory architecture.

Uh, what? It's very easy to compare, because these two systems are infact not tuned for 60 fps on standard resolution televisions. They both tuned specifically for HDTV, with the PS3 (and I'm pretty sure the Xbox 360) going up to 1080p, which translates to 1920 x 1080.

I'm sorry PC gaming is dying a slow death right before your very eyes. :(

[Achilles]

Don't like it? Convince me otherwise and back up your claims. All I’ve got to say is don’t accept Sony’s numbers and tech demos at face value. They had supposed in-game footage for Tekken for the PS2 as well and it looked much better than anything that came out on that system, especially the Tekken Tag which didn’t even manage to be a launch title. Maybe their stuff really is this great but Sony is the master of spin and marketing so it’s going to take me seeing a machine not hooked up to a computer, and someone playing these games for me to believe it. I know that's unfair since they're still a year out and there's no reason they should have playable games yet, but I'm willing to wait a year before I see what their system can really do.

On the other hand I'll be down there soon so I'll be able to check out their set-up, who knows maybe they'll have the thing running playable demos and sitting on a glass table.

I'd like to see Killzone running especially. That team seemed really talented and did a lot with even the PS2. And the Killzone tech demo looked amazing. If it really is representative of the game I'm glad they decided not to do the bizarre head bob when reloading weapons this time around, it was very disorienting.

[Morrolan]

I'm buying both. I'll be buying the 360 for support from Bioware, Team Ninja, Bungie, Bethesda and others. I'll be buying a PS3 for support from Sqeenix, Rockstar, Namco, Capcom and others. I'll be buying a 360 for its online capabilities and its ability to act as a media center. I'll be buying a PS3 for some really great looking games.

In the end, I think Sony came out the clear winner in this year's Keynote Wars. Not only did they have more to 'wow' the crowd with, they also managed to keep some dignity, without having morons spinning on their heads, or huge gorilla/man football players looking uncomfortable on stage. I'm sad that the 360, the platform which seems as though it might actually be able to bring modding to the consoles, seems to be slightly less powerful than the PS3, which seems to be nothing more than a generic hardware upgrade. Gears of War was the only thing shown that was up to snuff with some of the PS3 media we saw.

Ah well. I'm going to bed.

[WileE.Coyte]

.

5. Tilt. Dispite the scores being even coming into this area, this is where I share my personal feelings about the systems. All in all, Sony has my money at this point. Reason? I really was much more impressed by the raw power by Sony, and quite frankly, they have the developers. Final Fantasy is going to be on PS3, Metal Gear Solid 4 will be on PS3, Tekken 6 will be on PS3. Halo is good, but is only one game. Sony 3, MS 2.

There's how it stands to me.

Don't like it? Convince me otherwise and back up your claims.

I, was more impressed by the PS3 than the 360 too and they'll more than likely get my money this round. There's one tilt factor that *** has in it's favor though. Pure console History.

Atari vs Intelivision & Coleco winner Atari
Nes vs Sega Master system winner NES
SNES vs Genisis & Neo Geo winner SNES
PS vs N64& Saturn winner PS
PS2 vs Dreamcast& Xbox& Gamecube winner PS2

All these systems except for the Saturn, Dreamcast, and Genisis are superior to the best selling platform of it's time. Somehow the inferior console has always won the console wars. How ,I don't know. A lot of people did'nt know that the SMS was heads and tails above the NES in specs. I guess you could take off the NEO because it was so expensive, but that's still 4/5. There's some more console's I was too lazy to add, but the outcome is the same. Maybe it's different now, but I think it's worth at least half a tilt.

[president_fred]

This is very impressive. I will be buying all three regardless of what nintendo's console is like simply for the first party games. I think I will pick up a PS3 at launch but I will hold off on the 360 until MS confirms backwards compability or if there is a no b/c then I will wait for a price drop. Looks like I will be pickin up the Xbox last, simply because Live just isn't enough of a draw for me (i prefer single player games) and I will have plenty of good games to catch up on 1-1.5 years after launch. Still both consoles are very impressive if we choose to take both companies (not just MS) presentations at face value.

[crashedout]

Since the PS2 launch and I have not trusted any Sony presentations. I too will wait until I can see the games. However I will buy a 360 on launch, MS has not let me down and the media center features justify the cost initally. I will pick up a PS3 after the first price drop or if Sony/Toshiba reach an agreement and their new standard is in the PS3.

[joruussuun]

I am a huge Nintendo fan, but own an Xbox also (and PS2 at one point that I gave to my friend). But damn I have to admit that watching Sony's Press Conference impressed me. Microsoft's was a little dissapointing in comparison.
I know I will still end up picking up all three though... can't wait to see Nintendo's Press Conference, they usually have the best ones...

[Borys]

This controller is fucking stupid. The worst I have ever seen, what the hell...

Otherwise, PS3 = instabuy.
Unreal Engine 3, GTA, DMC4, Killzone 2 and tons of more?

How could anybody resist?

[XenonCJ]

Each SPE is essentially a different core.

An SPE is like a core, it runs a thread on its own, independant of the other SPEs, has its own 'cache', etc.

I don't have much faith in you understanding it; we've had discussions about CPUs n such before in the PhysiX thread, you totally disregarded logic there, so I can't imagine you'll accept it here.Oh yeah I remember, you we're the wanna-be fanboi who did nothing but latch onto buzzwords and call it God.

I'll look for answers elsewhere... You can keep looking at advertisments for "specs".... k thx

[Rakael]

I am SICK and FUCKING TIRED of this "your such a fanboy!" name calling FUCKING BULLSHIT!

If that is all you have as an argument, then please just shut the hell up and let the adults talk. We all have preferences, and yes some of us are even fanboys, but just because some one argues against your preference for system X does NOT make them a fanboy of system Y.

/rage

I myself, like most reasonable people, will end up with all 3 consoles (unless Nintendo really drops the ball). There will be good games that justify the purchase of each one. If someone wants to only buy one, that is their fault, but I will not sit around and yell "fanboy" at them. I have better fucking things to do.

[Savok]

To add to that, anyone who spells fanboy, "fanboi" will die a most painful death in my purges.

[Furious Wang]

449$ price tag for this system, folks. You'll be paying a premium for all those extra flops.

Anyway, to me these specs dont seem "orders of magnitude" above the 360 as some were saying. Better yes. But not exponentially.

As for the whole multiple ethernet outlets, if the rumors of PS3 being distributed computing compatible with other systems on the net, maybe you'll have one cord for the info sharing and one for game data. Not a best guess by far, just quick speculation.

Oh, and all of the videos shown were cgi. None of them were in-game (to whoever said they were) except for the Unreal 2007 one. Color me unimpressed.

[president_fred]

I myself, like most reasonable people, will end up with all 3 consoles
Ain't that the truth. Have you ever considered a career in the clergy. Judging by your post you seem fairly well placed to "save lost souls" alternatively if that fails "purge the unclean".

[XenonCJ]

I am SICK and FUCKING TIRED of this "your such a fanboy!" name calling FUCKING BULLSHIT!

If that is all you have as an argument, then please just shut the hell up and let the adults talk. We all have preferences, and yes some of us are even fanboys, but just because some one argues against your preference for system X does NOT make them a fanboy of system Y.

/rage

I myself, like most reasonable people, will end up with all 3 consoles (unless Nintendo really drops the ball). There will be good games that justify the purchase of each one. If someone wants to only buy one, that is their fault, but I will not sit around and yell "fanboy" at them. I have better fucking things to do.Wow I love it! Nothing better that getting under another FANBOI's skin =) bwahahahahhahahahahhahahaha

And how is buying ALL 3 Consoles "reasonable"? I dare say "MOST REASONABLE PEOPLE", own 1 or zero consoles of any particular "console generation". Buying all 3 (or more) is a waste of money if you ask me. Guess I'm not reasonable?

[Rakael]

Guess your a fucktard who just throws around the term fanboi (with your Aviril Lavenglish) because you really have nothing better to say.

Assclown.

[bobbler]

...
As for the whole multiple ethernet outlets, if the rumors of PS3 being distributed computing compatible with other systems on the net, maybe you'll have one cord for the info sharing and one for game data. Not a best guess by far, just quick speculation.
...

PS3 has a 2 port hub in it. 1 port in + 2 port hub/switch.

[president_fred]

I dare say "MOST REASONABLE PEOPLE", own 1 or zero consoles of any particular "console generation". Buying all 3 (or more) is a waste of money if you ask me.
That is your opinion and you are entitled to it but you realise you are saying this on a website which is generally frequented by and catered to a specialist audience. One that enjoys videogames and would if the opportunity arose leap at the chance of owning all three consoles. What you are doing is tantamount to going on a fishing forum and saying "well yeah, you could fish I guess and own more than one rod, but shit isn't it a waste of money?". I think most people here are enthusiasts and therefore try to get as much out of their hobby as possible, even if some people consider it a waste of money. I personally consider cars a waste of money but that is because I have no interest in them. Go figure.

[XenonCJ]

That is your opinion and you are entitled to it but you realise you are saying this on a website which is generally frequented by and catered to a specialist audience. One that enjoys videogames and would if the opportunity arose leap at the chance of owning all three consoles. What you are doing is tantamount to going on a fishing forum and saying "well yeah, you could fish I guess and own more than one rod, but shit isn't it a waste of money?". I think most people here are enthusiasts and therefore try to get as much out of their hobby as possible, even if some people consider it a waste of money. I personally consider cars a waste of money but that is because I have no interest in them. Go figure.Uhm exactly dude... He said REASONABLE PEOPLE, not VIDEOGAME ENTHUSIASTS. Thanks for playing Capt. Obvious.

[XenonCJ]

Guess your a fucktard who just throws around the term fanboi (with your Aviril Lavenglish) because you really have nothing better to say.

Assclown.As the Fanboi calls me names, for calling people names... Irony is kind of ironic sometimes....

[Rakael]

Ain't that the truth. Have you ever considered a career in the clergy. Judging by your post you seem fairly well placed to "save lost souls" alternatively if that fails "purge the unclean".


Haha! I like that idea. Be like something out of Warhammer 40k.

[[HATE]MyLife]

As the Fanboi calls me names, for calling people names... Irony is kind of ironic sometimes....

Hey dude? Anyone who uses the code name of a gaming system as a login name and calls someone ELSE a fanboy, is a hypocrite and a moron.

[Balthasar]

I, was more impressed by the PS3 than the 360 too and they'll more than likely get my money this round. There's one tilt factor that *** has in it's favor though. Pure console History.

Atari vs Intelivision & Coleco winner Atari
Nes vs Sega Master system winner NES
SNES vs Genisis & Neo Geo winner SNES
PS vs N64& Saturn winner PS
PS2 vs Dreamcast& Xbox& Gamecube winner PS2

All these systems except for the Saturn, Dreamcast, and Genisis are superior to the best selling platform of it's time. Somehow the inferior console has always won the console wars.

Why is this always such a mystery for everyone? All the so-called "winners" of each generation did it by having the best or "most noteworthy" games on their system. It was about games with each and every system.

[mister_slim]

Oh yeah I remember, you we're the wanna-be fanboi who did nothing but latch onto buzzwords and call it God.

I'll look for answers elsewhere... You can keep looking at advertisments for "specs".... k thx
Bobbler knows his stuff, you don't. If you can't be bothered to do your own research, don't dismiss the people who have. Essentially, shut up.

[megatron666]

I have 256mb on my vid card, equal to this PS3--but then I don't expect this vid card to last me five years. And it's only a Radeon 9600XT.

Anyway, I heard all these same arguments five years ago. "Without Windows you don't need so much RAM." Sounds nice, but in reality the Xbox's small amount of memory ended up being a bottleneck. Warren Spectre himself said "What we wouldn't have given for 128mb of RAM." (Granted, it was part of his "please don't judge me for my shitty Deus Ex sequel" apology, but still...) I guess I don't know enough about the engineering, but I just don't understand why they handicap these systems like this. Just watch, in a few years PC elitists will be pointing at the lack of RAM in the next-gen systems to explain why concurrently developed titles have severely limited or barren environments. It's certainly a legitimate complaint with the current generation of systems, I don't understand why they're making the same mistake again.

I, too, have 256M on my card. It is an Nvidia 5700. Also, I don't think this card will hold out for 5 years. But, then again, neither will my Athalon 2.7. But lets separate our pc from our console. They really are different animals.

You asked why there is so little ram on the newer consoles. The simple answer is, because they wanted to keep the price down. But let's look at it a little closer.

It seems to me that there is more than 10x more total ram on the ps3 as there is on the ps2. (This is an estimate. I could be off by some.) On the xbox, there is about 8x more total ram. I say total because, like I posted earlier, some system ram could probably be substituted for video ram.

I think if you aproach any developer and say, "Ok, you can use 8x more memory now then you used to be able to." They will jump with joy. Will they be ecstatic 5 years from now with the current memory standard? No. But then you just release another console and all is well again.

And don't forget, these developers are pretty smart. Just look at God of War on the ps2. Fantastic. And this is on a 5 year old system with just about no memory at all. So, I wouldn't be too concerned with what these systems have right now. The games will be pretty awesome.

By the way, how many programs have you written? I'm not trying to be mean, just illistrating a point. Maybe you shouldn't be so critical until you walk a few miles in thier shoes.

And before you ask me, I have my masters in computer science. I've have written, and presented, a paper to the ACM in Atlanta and just graduated with my thesis on using evolutionary algorithms in a realistic 3d environment. Again, I'm not trying to be mean, just objective.

[XenonCJ]

Bobbler knows his stuff, you don't. If you can't be bothered to do your own research, don't dismiss the people who have. Essentially, shut up.Oh OK - WOW since you say so, HE MUST BE AWESOME... Espicially since he belittles someone just asking a question, that really proves how big he, and now you, are in comparrison to us little people.

Not that you have ANY idea who I am what-so-ever.

[XenonCJ]

MyLife']Hey dude? Anyone who uses the code name of a gaming system as a login name and calls someone ELSE a fanboy, is a hypocrite and a moron.Yeah except I've been using this name since 1993. So fuck off.

[Savok]

Not that you have ANY idea who I am what-so-ever.

I'll bite, who are you?

[president_fred]

Thanks for playing Capt. Obvious.
Touché. extra words filler

[mister_slim]

Oh OK - WOW since you say so, HE MUST BE AWESOME... Espicially since he belittles someone just asking a question, that really proves how big he, and now you, are in comparrison to us little people.

Not that you have ANY idea who I am what-so-ever.
You're the guy who doesn't understand the benefits of specialized processors. That's enough for me.