Of course Xbox 360 Outsells the Playstation 3 & Wii

[The Continental]

iTWire (http://www.itwire.com/) appears to be better able to look past press releases and marketing hype when reporting on holiday console sales (http://www.itwire.com.au/content/view/7481/52/).Online news reports are claiming that the Xbox 360 is outselling the PS3 and the Wii. Well, of course they are! It’s the only next-gen console that is actually on sale, the other two are only available for as long as the next shipment lasts, with no reprieve for the vast majority of users that want one until 2007. Of course there are, relatively speaking, plenty of PS3’s and Wii’s out there. Both companies are shipping in as many as they can, with reports of 125,000 to 175,000 PS3’s already out there (and with 10% of those reportedly on eBay), and Nintendo bringing in, at launch, four times as many Wii’s as Sony had PS3s.

But if you want to walk into a store and be guaranteed of buying a next generation games console, the Xbox 360 is the one you’ll find every time, because they got their production issues sorted out months ago, with Microsoft aiming to literally sell millions of Xbox 360s over the Christmas period.
10% of PS3's on eBay? I'd have figured closer to 20%.

[absolut taco]

iTWire (http://www.itwire.com/) appears to be better able to look past press releases and marketing hype when reporting on holiday console sales (http://www.itwire.com.au/content/view/7481/52/).
10% of PS3's on eBay? I'd have figured closer to 20%.

I thought 50%!

[DangerousDaze]

Does this really need a thread of its own? It was the only conclusion possible to the last thread on this subject.

[Heretic Machine]

I wish someone would give me a job for saying the stuff I post here. I do it several days in advance of places like iTWire.

[rjcc]

iTwire sucks. they're not "looking past hype", they're posting hypothetical numbers as fact. they pretty regularly post things that are just wrong, not quite on the level of the inquirer, but close.

[Deadend]

I thought the number of PS3s being sold to secondary sources was closer to 80%. But we will never know or be able to properly guess until we can see the game sales, as in theory every system that was bought for home use came with at least 1 game.

[J Arcane]

Does this really need a thread of its own? It was the only conclusion possible to the last thread on this subject.
I agree. But the problem that you and I are making here, is assuming common sense has anything to do with message board discussions. Man that thread was fucking stupid though, wasn't it?

[maja]

Bottom line is the 360 is selling no matter how you look at it. Big ups to Microsoft for playing their cards right.

[DangerousDaze]

Bottom line is the 360 is selling no matter how you look at it.Yup, coming in just behind PS2 sales last time I looked. The point is that the comparison in both of these ridiculous threads is between a system that is available in stores and two systems that aren't.

[DingBat]

You know, that line of reasoning is downright stupid. If two totally new consoles can't outsell the 360 in the first month of their release, then there are only two possible conclusions:

1. That these consoles should be worried.
2. That the manufacturers of these consoles didn't even bother to build enough to satisfy even modest demand.

So, they're either stupid or in trouble. Either one isn't very flattering.

[bapenguin]

Well...if the launch numbers released were correct...even if we go the high end with 150,000 PS3's available. On that day there were 22,000 systems on EBay. That puts it at about 15%.

[Heretic Machine]

You know, that line of reasoning is downright stupid. If two totally new consoles can't outsell the 360 in the first month of their release, then there are only two possible conclusions:

1. That these consoles should be worried.
2. That the manufacturers of these consoles didn't even bother to build enough to satisfy even modest demand.

So, they're either stupid or in trouble. Either one isn't very flattering.

They didn't bother? Are you one of these people who think that they didn't want to have more for launch? Let me tell you, they fielded every console they possibly could, but you can only build this shit so fast.

[EWolfmanD]

One of the problems with the last thread is that some people thought it was some kind of statement about which company would sell the most consoles overall. It's not. People were only examining the number of consoles sold over a specific period and were not predicting sells over the lifetime of the consoles.

I don't know whether the 360 outsold the other systems over however many days you want to pick, but it is at least plausible. And it's very likely that it will sell the most this holiday season, unless there is a huge amount of Wiis that come in.

Obviously the number of PS3s and Wiis sold right now are limited only by the number of units available. Everyone should be able to see that, even the fanboys for each side, and you really shouldn't bother getting into an argument with anyone claiming otherwise. It should also be obvious that every company wants to supply exactly the number of units that there is a demand for. Yes, it would be wonderful if there were more units available for launch, but that is unfortunately not the case. If anyone did make the argument that Sony wanted to release this small amount, then that would be a bit silly. The only reason they would want to do that is if they set the initial PS3 price to $3,000, which they didn't, unless you believe everyone selling PS3s on eBay are actually Sony agents. And if you believe that, your mind is an entertaining enough place that you really don't need a video game system or these forums.

How about we just agree that some people want a 360, some want a PS3, some want a Wii, some want some combination of all of them, that all three companies will probably do well this generation, and just go back to playing video games?

[Kamalot]

It is downright humorous that the only time the PS3 will ever be ahead of anything in sales is the two days it was out prior to the Wii launch.

PS3 - 3rd place FTW!

[independentcreator]

Does anyone actually know how many 360s were sold so far in November? ... ?

[imagecreature]

Well...if the launch numbers released were correct...even if we go the high end with 150,000 PS3's available. On that day there were 22,000 systems on EBay. That puts it at about 15%.

Some PS3 owners may be holding out til middle Dec. to sell. I talk with two PS3 owners in line getting a Wii and their thoughts were that the eBay market was flooded and waiting a little while would be a better move in order to get a higher price. Maybe individuals would be more worried about getting one.

[Draft]

Does anyone actually know how many 360s were sold so far in November? ... ?We won't know for sure until the November NPD comes out, which happens in early December. The results should be epic.

[Kamalot]

The results should be epic.
Is this a poke at the Gears of War effect?

[Draft]

Is this a poke at the Gears of War effect?Haha, unintentional. Basically, no matter what the sales results are, someone's getting owned and it will be fun to watch.

[J Arcane]

Hee hee hee. NPD. You're hilarious Draft.

[Zeal]

It's like Nintendo fans are going through withdrawals at this news. Let me go make a million other threads trying to spin this as not actually happening.

What the hell is wrong with you people. Seriously.

You know, that line of reasoning is downright stupid. If two totally new consoles can't outsell the 360 in the first month of their release, then there are only two possible conclusions:

1. That these consoles should be worried.
2. That the manufacturers of these consoles didn't even bother to build enough to satisfy even modest demand.

So, they're either stupid or in trouble. Either one isn't very flattering.

Since when is anyone allowed to utilize common sense here.

[Kelegacy]

The 360 will win this year, and probably next. With a high price tag and practically no game worth the 500 buck entry fee, and no new reasons until maybe spring, the PS3 is not an intelligent option for most gamers.

The 360 is overpriced, too, but if you can find a deal with free games, it's not as bad. Hell, I think the Wii is overpriced by about $50 or more.

Right now, if you must own one of the systems, the 360 is the best bet.

[Zeal]

I like the fact that you can turn on your 360 and just sit around and play free games all day. Most of the demos you can download have multiplayer Live play hosted by dedicated servers, and it's free. I mean, what the hell is that. Amazing.

You can download 3-4 Live demos and be busy for a few months.

It's like you could literally survive off demos alone.

[RMan]

So, they're either stupid or in trouble. Either one isn't very flattering.
Hehe, this is just such a funny thing I had to respond. I guess at the 360’s launch when it was being outsold by pretty much every major system including handhelds, MS was just stupid or in trouble, right? Anyone who actually thinks about the situation can plainly see that you can not judge demand based on the sales of a supply that doesn’t come close to meeting that demand (this is just as logical, IMO, as judging sales numbers before the system’s launch, unavailable systems don’t sell no matter what the reason is).

Tell you what, here’s an equally reasonable conclusion to make: If the PS3 sold 150K units in an average of 1 hour of availability, which is conservative, then over it’s suggested 10 years of viability it’ll conservatively sell over 13 billion systems. Nintendo’s numbers would be even higher, so MS should bow out right now, as long as we’re making stupid conclusions based on anecdotal data.

[Draft]

Hee hee hee. NPD. You're hilarious Draft.If you know of some other more accurate provider of sales data, please link it. Otherwise stfu.

[SnappyCrunch]

I like the fact that you can turn on your 360 and just sit around and play free games all day. Most of the demos you can download have multiplayer Live play hosted by dedicated servers, and it's free. I mean, what the hell is that. Amazing.

You can download 3-4 Live demos and be busy for a few months.

It's like you could literally survive off demos alone.

Welcome to what you've been able to do with a PC for years.

[OrangePulp]

Hehe, this is just such a funny thing I had to respond. I guess at the 360’s launch when it was being outsold by pretty much every major system including handhelds, MS was just stupid or in trouble, right? Anyone who actually thinks about the situation can plainly see that you can not judge demand based on the sales of a supply that doesn’t come close to meeting that demand (this is just as logical, IMO, as judging sales numbers before the system’s launch, unavailable systems don’t sell no matter what the reason is).

Tell you what, here’s an equally reasonable conclusion to make: If the PS3 sold 150K units in an average of 1 hour of availability, which is conservative, then over it’s suggested 10 years of viability it’ll conservatively sell over 13 billion systems. Nintendo’s numbers would be even higher, so MS should bow out right now, as long as we’re making stupid conclusions based on anecdotal data.

Haha, that was pretty good.

It is downright humorous that the only time the PS3 will ever be ahead of anything in sales is the two days it was out prior to the Wii launch.

PS3 - 3rd place FTW!

And I suppose you know this because you can see the future or something? Give it up Kamalot, you're not Nostradamus.

It's kinda sad that this had to be news.

[Loganrapp]

I like the fact that you can turn on your 360 and just sit around and play free games all day. Most of the demos you can download have multiplayer Live play hosted by dedicated servers, and it's free. I mean, what the hell is that. Amazing.

You can download 3-4 Live demos and be busy for a few months.

It's like you could literally survive off demos alone.

Hell, when I bought my 360 I was fully intending to sell it. When the market wouldn't give me a profit, I kept it. So I didn't have any games for the first couple of months.

What did I play? Geometry Wars, yo. I was set.

Welcome to what you've been able to do with a PC for years.


Wrong. You have to go looking for demos. Small difference, but it's all the difference. Having demos on the XBL network for console is very, very handy. Especially when you turn the console on and - hey - it's right there!

Again - small difference, but if you think it doesn't matter, you're dreaming. Convenience is everything.

[DingBat]

Hehe, this is just such a funny thing I had to respond. I guess at the 360’s launch when it was being outsold by pretty much every major system including handhelds, MS was just stupid or in trouble, right? Anyone who actually thinks about the situation can plainly see that you can not judge demand based on the sales of a supply that doesn’t come close to meeting that demand (this is just as logical, IMO, as judging sales numbers before the system’s launch, unavailable systems don’t sell no matter what the reason is).

Tell you what, here’s an equally reasonable conclusion to make: If the PS3 sold 150K units in an average of 1 hour of availability, which is conservative, then over it’s suggested 10 years of viability it’ll conservatively sell over 13 billion systems. Nintendo’s numbers would be even higher, so MS should bow out right now, as long as we’re making stupid conclusions based on anecdotal data.

You totally missed my point. My point was that if there ever was a point at which something new should be able to outsell it's competitors, it's at launch. Now, unless Sony was keeping the launch date secret from it's own manufacturing division, there really wasn't any excuse to come to the game with as few machines as they did.

Yah, yah, I know there weren't a lot of 360's at launch either. The difference there is: the 360 came out first. It didn't have any competition so it didn't matter as much how many shipped. And please, let's not have anyone suggest the 360's competition was the PS2.

[Zeal]

Welcome to what you've been able to do with a PC for years.
Oh is that why 99% of all PC games nowadays SUCK and the the market is DEAD.

[J Arcane]

If you know of some other more accurate provider of sales data, please link it. Otherwise stfu.
There are no accurate providers of sales data fuckstick. NPD and the rest are basically random samples of whatever retailers would actually give them data. Large numbers of retailers, be they large, small, or independent, aren't even covered by their numbers, even big ones like Wal-Mart.

The NPD being described as authoritative is the funniest damn thing I've seen in weeks.

[Kelegacy]

Welcome to what you've been able to do with a PC for years.
The 360 makes it incredibly easy, though. Like a PC for dummies.

[SnappyCrunch]

Oh is that why 99% of all PC games nowadays SUCK and the the market is DEAD.

Hahaha, that's why I love you, Zeal. So, so predictable.

[Loganrapp]

The 360 makes it incredibly easy, though. Like a PC for dummies.

Exactly. No one's going to dig around for it. But having it practically delivered to your doorstep? People're all over that.

[RMan]

You totally missed my point. My point was that if there ever was a point at which something new should be able to outsell it's competitors, it's at launch.
Only if demand is met by supply, which it has never been for any major system launch. Clearly it’s not in a developer’s best interest to hold off on launching such a product until all demand can be met, which is why these launches have played out as they always have. If you want to prove yourself, then name a system, ANY SYSTEM, that has outsold it's contemporaries in the first few weeks of their launch. Even if you could find one, which I doubt, it'd be far from common.
Yah, yah, I know there weren't a lot of 360's at launch either. The difference there is: the 360 came out first. It didn't have any competition so it didn't matter as much how many shipped. And please, let's not have anyone suggest the 360's competition was the PS2.
I don’t think you have a point here, MS didn’t ship so few units because they didn’t have competition, they shipped so few because they didn’t have them, same reason they all do. And as long as we’re ignoring launch dates and not keeping anything in context, why on earth can’t we compare the PS2’s sales numbers to the 360’s at launch? That’s precisely what you’re doing here, comparing sales of systems in limited supply to older, readily available systems.

[Draft]

There are no accurate providers of sales data fuckstick. NPD and the rest are basically random samples of whatever retailers would actually give them data. Large numbers of retailers, be they large, small, or independent, aren't even covered by their numbers, even big ones like Wal-Mart.

The NPD being described as authoritative is the funniest damn thing I've seen in weeks.What do you mean "the rest." They're it. They're accurate enough to be cited in analyst reports and sales press releases. As far as the game industry is concerned, NPD is the end all be all of sales data. Sorry, you lose.

[Kelegacy]

I'm a PS2 fan, and was a PS1 lover, too. But right now I care nothing for the PS3. People are always quick to jump on me when I defend Sony, call me a fanboy (pot vs. kettle). Right now I'm having a ton of fun with my 360. MS, love them or hate them, they created a console that is incredibly easy and fun to use (and not just the games).

Fanboys are, by definition, blind. I may defend Sony sometimes, but it's out of devil's advocacy, not corporate alliance. Trying to balance the scales in a frequently unjust community. I'm sure the PS3 will flourish into a great console, but right now I don't care. If it continues to lose exclusives, it will be even less relevant since you will always be able to get a 360 for far cheaper.

[J Arcane]

What do you mean "the rest." They're it. They're accurate enough to be cited in analyst reports and sales press releases. As far as the game industry is concerned, NPD is the end all be all of sales data. Sorry, you lose.
Heh heh. "Analysts". These would be the same sorts of guys who advices people to sell off their Google stock and invest in Yahoo. Yeah, I really pay any attention to "analysts".

And "end all be all"? What the fuck are you even babbling about here? NPD is far from the only pathetic attempt at a sales aggregate. Do you work for them or something? Your post reads like ad copy.

Whatever. You've got your fantasy world, like most gamers, and far be it for me to intrude.

[DingBat]

I don’t think you have a point here, MS didn’t ship so few units because they didn’t have competition, they shipped so few because they didn’t have them, same reason they all do. And as long as we’re ignoring launch dates and not keeping anything in context, why on earth can’t we compare the PS2’s sales numbers to the 360’s at launch? That’s precisely what you’re doing here, comparing sales of systems in limited supply to older, readily available systems.

Um, because it's supposed to be a "next generation" race?

But let's strip away all the BS. Do you think Sony is happy with the current situation?

[Rafer]

We won't know for sure until the November NPD comes out, which happens in early December. The results should be epic.

No kidding, someone even made a video (http://youtube.com/watch?v=QHUUIJi9t8c) for it. The anticipation for November NPD is enormous.

[KingGorilla]

I thought the number of PS3s being sold to secondary sources was closer to 80%. But we will never know or be able to properly guess until we can see the game sales, as in theory every system that was bought for home use came with at least 1 game.
World-wide, compiled from major sites like E-bay, Craigslist, etc. have said that about 16,000 have been on E-bay, and a lot fewer on Craig's List (a few thousand). You have to remember that E-bay instituted rules that a person needed 50+ sales to put a PS3 on auction. Most folks figured that they could open a new account and sell it. But the returns are not that great either, most going for 1000 dollars, IE most guys are making 300 bucks for standing in line for 5 days.

[RMan]

Um, because it's supposed to be a "next generation" race?
“Next generation” is an academic distinction that doesn’t matter much to the average consumer, retailers, or the developer’s bottom line. You want to ignore release dates and supply, yet the “next generation” title has significant meaning? Yea, I get it, you’re a MS superfan, just don’t try to pass it off as logic that others should be able to see.
Do you think Sony is happy with the current situation?
As far as system sales and demand, I’m not sure how they could have done better. As far as manufacturing, I’m sure all three system manufacturers would have like to have more units for their launch (again, this is pretty much always the case). I’d say MS and Sony both had tough times with their launch supplies, and Nintendo’s was relatively good, but I’m sure they’d have liked higher supplies. I'm sure both Nintendo and Sony knew they couldn't produce enough units to outsell available products (like the 360, PS2 or DS), and they know very well that, unlike what you suggest, a system's best sales period is NEVER in the few weeks after it's launch.

[Draft]

And "end all be all"? What the fuck are you even babbling about here? NPD is far from the only pathetic attempt at a sales aggregate. Do you work for them or something? Your post reads like ad copy.huh, and yet you still haven't linked any. Huh.

[phantomhitman]

is it too late to say "pwned in the face"?

[TheFlyingOrc]

Well...if the launch numbers released were correct...even if we go the high end with 150,000 PS3's available. On that day there were 22,000 systems on EBay. That puts it at about 15%.

If you do a "completed listings" search for PS3s on eBay, you'll find that there were 75,000 so far. With 13,000 still available to buy. That's 4 times your estimate - so we're at 60%.

[DingBat]

“Next generation” is an academic distinction that doesn’t matter much to the average consumer, retailers, or the developer’s bottom line. You want to ignore release dates and supply, yet the “next generation” title has significant meaning? Yea, I get it, you’re a MS superfan, just don’t try to pass it off as logic that others should be able to see.


Sorry, but you can't fling out a "fanbois" label and call it a day.

I think the average consumer clearly understands the difference between a PS2 and a PS3 or an XBox and a 360. MS and Sony better sure as hell hope so, anyway, or there's big trouble ahead for all of them.

You seem to have a lot invested in this. Are you sure you're not the superfan?

[RMan]

Sorry, but you can't fling out a "fanbois" label and call it a day.
Hehe, hey, the alternative is far less flattering. Your statements display a lack of understanding of the basics of supply and demand, as well as ignorance of the fact that this is how it works. The desire to slant everything in favor of MS leads me to believe you are a fanboy, but hey, maybe foolishness and ignorance is the problem and the slant towards MS is just a coincidence.

[Jart]

10% on ebay? There are currently 8,014 Systems up for grabs on ebay. There are 57,288 completed items. Thats over a THIRD of all systems sold in retail. Obviously some of those will be relists, but that is still far above 10%.

[J Arcane]

huh, and yet you still haven't linked any. Huh.
Pop quiz retard: Who does Nintendo go to for the sales numbers on their annual reports.

Hint: It isn't NPD.

[klwolf]

no crap the 360 is selling more because they have more available to purchase... DUH!!!