Fake Revolution Video Creator Speaks

[OSX]

A man, going by both Pablo and Psycol3er, claiming to have created the alleged video of Nintendo's Revolution, (http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2100&) or the Nintendo On as he named it, has released an explaination of his video and a message.

His message. (http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y132/minotaur64/Psyco3lerMessage.jpg)

A Warp Piper's rough translation (http://forums.warppipe.com/viewtopic.php?t=18305)

It is not about it being a "fake", its about a complaint. It (the video) is an attempt to not simply stay with my arms crossed before the sickening ocean of commerciality that is affecting the industry of videogames, especially my loving Nintendo (the only company that preoccupies itself with contributing new things). Commerciality forces companies to put out new consoles every 2 or 3 years with the only intent being to erase the limits (set by current consoles) for game developers. This does not allow game developers to let their imagination run wild and delight us (the gamers) with transcendent new games.

Personally, I think the guy has the right idea. The 360 unveiling left me with a sick feeling in my stomach, but his video instantly replaced that with real hope. Screw faceplates, I want games.

[OSX]

Here is a nice collection of his prior works. Mostly Nintendo related, mostly awesome.

http://forums.warppipe.com/viewtopic.php?t=18258&start=105

Courtesy DidYouLoseASock

[Draft]

Nintendo isn't any more innovative than Sony or MS. Unless you count giving Mario a watergun as innovation.

[Liquidize105]

Nintendo isn't any more innovative than Sony or MS. Unless you count giving Mario a watergun as innovation.
:rolleyes:

[Draft]

:rolleyes:Roll them right out of your skull for all I care. Nintendo's always been put on this innovation pedestal, but their as derivative and sequel happy as any other publisher.

[crackeriah]

Nintendo isn't any more innovative than Sony or MS. Unless you count giving Mario a watergun as innovation.
Let's see...what did Nintendo do first? Off the top of my head...

Hardware firsts: D-pad, analog thumbstick, shoulder buttons, rumble, handheld gaming.

Software genre firsts: 2d mario, 3d mario, 3d zelda.

Sony? Second with an optical drive, first with 2 analog sticks, first with backwards compatibility, and first with really good 3rd party relations.

Microsoft? First decent online service.

I think it's pretty obvious Nintendo has historically been the most innovative. Now, the Gamecube has been their least innovative system thus far, which might be why they're getting killed.

[EvilBob46]

Nintendo isn't any more innovative than Sony or MS. Unless you count giving Mario a watergun as innovation.

I thought the Nintendo DS was mighty innovative, especially in comparison to past handhelds and the more "if it ain't broke don't fix it, but be sure to have nice 3D graphics 'n stuff" PSP approach (not saying the later is a bad thing, btw).

[bapenguin]

Let's see...what did Nintendo do first? Off the top of my head...

Hardware firsts: D-pad, analog thumbstick, shoulder buttons, rumble, handheld gaming.

Software genre firsts: 2d mario, 3d mario, 3d zelda.

Sony? Second with an optical drive, first with 2 analog sticks, first with backwards compatibility, and first with really good 3rd party relations.

Microsoft? First decent online service.

I think it's pretty obvious Nintendo has historically been the most innovative. Now, the Gamecube has been their least innovative system thus far, which might be why they're getting killed.

I'm sorry, but take the fanboy blinders off. Most of those things listed...are blatantly wrong. Simply expanding on already existing ideas, doesn't make it a first.

[Liquidize105]

Hardware firsts: D-pad, analog thumbstick, shoulder buttons, rumble, handheld gaming.

Software genre firsts: 2d mario, 3d mario, 3d zelda.

Add tilt detection, touch screen, and the forthcoming revolution to that list.

I'd say Nintendo's trying pretty damn hard to do things different, even if they're not 100% successes.

I'm sorry, but take the fanboy blinders off. Most of those things listed...are blatantly wrong. Simply expanding on already existing ideas, doesn't make it a first.
Err no; going from single to duo thumbsticks, now that's expanding on already existing ideas.

[Crispy951]

wow...no matter what i think that guy has alot of good thoughts on how things are going nowadays. i feel dirty for having even watched 10 mins. of thaty MTV special

[Draft]

I'll give em the analog stick and the 3D platformer.

[Tricky Thumb]

"DRRRR NITENDO IS AWESOMZORZ", come on this is like one big Nintendo fanboy circle jerk. Lets be honest, m'kay? Nintendo has been covering up it's failings and shortcomings with this "creativity" bullshit. Or at least, the Nintendo fanboys are doing so.

Where was Nintendo when the online scene exploded?

Where was Nintendo when everyone switched to a disc format?

Where was Nintendo when everyone started acknowledging "older" gamers?

I love Nintendo just as much as the next gamer, but you know you're full of shit when you try to claim Nintendo "cares" or "tries" more/harder than any other console company. Now all you fankiddies can go crawl back under the Virtual Boy you came up from.

[Draft]

"DRRRR NITENDO IS AWESOMZORZ", come on this is like one big Nintendo fanboy circle jerk. Lets be honest, m'kay? Nintendo has been covering up it's failings and shortcomings with this "creativity" bullshit. Or at least, the Nintendo fanboys are doing so.

Where was Nintendo when the online scene exploded?

Where was Nintendo when everyone switched to a disc format?

Where was Nintendo when everyone started acknowledging "older" gamers?

I love Nintendo just as much as the next gamer, but you know you're full of shit when you try to claim Nintendo "cares" or "tries" more/harder than any other console company. Now all you fankiddies can go crawl back under the Virtual Boy you came up from.
Please, you're not helping. Attack the stupid arguements, not the stupid people.

[sTubbs]

Let's see...what did Nintendo do first? Off the top of my head...

Hardware firsts: D-pad, analog thumbstick, shoulder buttons, rumble, handheld gaming.

Software genre firsts: 2d mario, 3d mario, 3d zelda.

Sony? Second with an optical drive, first with 2 analog sticks, first with backwards compatibility, and first with really good 3rd party relations.

Microsoft? First decent online service.

I think it's pretty obvious Nintendo has historically been the most innovative. Now, the Gamecube has been their least innovative system thus far, which might be why they're getting killed.

For starters, the first console with an analog stick was the Atari 2600 - decades before Nintendo came out with the N64. As for handheld gaming, they did not come out with that concept either. Sure, they were the first to make the games interchangeable, but there were handheld gaming devices before the GB. As for the other features you mention, I guess you are right. But to paraphrase Einstein on the topic of relativity: 'Somebody else would have done it soon enough.' In other words, the industry would have evolved into those things anyhow, but kudos to Nintendo for doing them first.

Furthermore, the software accomplishments you mention make absolutely no sense. OF COURSE Nintendo was the first company to make 2D Mario, 3D Mario, and 3D Zelda games - they created the characters! I could say the same thing about Sega: 'first to make a 2D Sonic game' - holy shit! how innovative!

I could go on, but my point has been made. I love Nintendo, but this generation they have really disappointed me. I mean, they did not even put out a good Mario game. Mario Sunshine is no Mario Bros. 3, or Super Mario World, or Mario 64 - it does not even come close. They have consistently alienated third party developers, snubbed the online community, and released games at a trickling pace - many of which or nowhere near the quality of past efforts. I hope that their next console truly is a Revolution, but I am not holding my breath.

PS: Feel free to come forth with more supposed innovations. For the vast majority of them, I bet you that I could prove Nintendo did not do it first. Yes, they do commonly move outside of the typical console gaming spectrum, but that does not make them innovative, as much of the stuff they drag into the normal console world has been done elsewhere.

[Dragos]

From: Bill_Cauty | Posted: 4/9/2005 3:53:17 PM | Message Detail
That's it, I'm gonna unleash . . . THE LIST!


Nintendo invented the analogue stick - FALSE. The Atari 5200 offered an analog stick in 1982, and the Vectrex had one in 1983.

Nintendo invented shoulder buttons - FALSE. There is a version of an Atari 5200 joystick with shoulder buttons.

Nintendo made the first console with four joypad ports as standard - FALSE. The Atari 5200 again! It had four ports as standard for the first couple years, then Atari released a slimline version (similar to the PSOne or PSTwo), which cut out the second two as few games used them.

Nintendo made the first console with backwards compatibility - FALSE. The Atari 7800 was compatible with 2600 cartridges.

Nintendo made the first "real" handheld system with the Gameboy - FALSE. The Milton Bradley Microvision was a handheld system with games on interchangeable cartridges nearly ten years before the Gameboy in 1979.

Nintendo made the first 3D platformer with Mario 64 - FALSE. Jumping Flash on the Playstation came a good 18 months before it Mario 64.

Nintendo pioneered rumble features - YES and NO. There were certainly plenty of arcade games featuring force feedback through their controllers (be the controller a steering wheel, light gun or whatever) long before the N64, but the N64's rumble pack WAS the first official home console add-on to introduce feedback.

Nintendo invented handheld touchscreen gaming with the DS - FALSE. There have been plenty handheld touch-screen games on Palm Pilots, and the Game.com system had it years ago.

Just something I pulled off the land of idiocy a while ago...

[Tricky Thumb]

Please, you're not helping. Attack the stupid arguements, not the stupid people.

I know it would be better to have attacked the arguements, but I didn't feel like taking the time to do it this time. sTubbs did a far, far better job than I could have done.

Lets not forget that Nintendo has had some serious floppage before, such as the Virtual Boy. If you treat a company like they can do no wrong, touting them about as if they are the herald gods of ye old county, your pride is going to get burnt.

[Liquidize105]

So where the hell is the atari then?

Doing it first, doing it right, making it big, the right company to do it - nintendo's done 'em all. Doesn't mean I'm discrediting the other companies, but fraggin hell, nintendo's done a hell of a lot. Virtual boy? Tried and failed, fair enough. What do we get when nobody tries? We get an industry-wide dryspell.

I haven't played a nintendo game in at least 5 years, even then I tip my hat to them.

[LikeTheRazor]

OK, so I guess Atari is the most innovative console developer. I can't wait until the next Atari system comes out.

[if76]

Ok the analog joystick on the 5200 wasn't a thumbstick and it wasn't self-centering. It was generally considered to be a piece of crap.

Also although Jumping Flash was a great game, it's not a 3d platformer in the traditional sense but more of a first-person shooter with heavy platforming elements. You can't say that Ratchet and Clank, Jak and Dexter, Blinx or any of the hundreds of games like them drew any inspiration from Jumping Flash. They are, on the other hand, direct descendants of Mario 64.

[Tricky Thumb]

So where the hell is the atari then?

Doing it first, doing it right, making it big, the right company to do it - nintendo's done 'em all. Doesn't mean I'm discrediting the other companies, but fraggin hell, nintendo's done a hell of a lot.

I haven't played a nintendo game in at least 5 years, even then I tip my hat to them.

Doing it first - No, we have already come to the conclusion that this is a Nintend-boy lie.

Doing it right - No, Nintendo had to drop their system to $100 dollars to keep a respectable 3rd place in this last generation.

Making it big - Uh, erm, what? I think you're just spouting nonsense now.

Nintendo has done a hell of a lot? What about the PS1-PS2 transistion Sony has done? Has ANY other company kept the coveted "Best Selling" system for two generations in a row? Not that I can remember.

What about Microsoft? They are the ONLY company to do online the the best and be the most sucessful with it. Sure XBL could be better and it's getting better with the Gamer Cards, if someone joins my game on Project Gotham Racing 3 and they have 1 star they get a boot!

The truth of the matter is that people need to stop parading around for any one company.

Oh and what the fuck? How is Ratchet and Clank, a game in which has some light platforming elements with HEAVY, HEAVY action elements a "Direct decendant" of Mario 64?

[LikeTheRazor]

Of course Nintendo used to be big. Did you just conveniently forget their complete dominance in the SNES era? Did you even own an SNES?

And in the handheld arena, they are the definition of "Making it big."

[Major Scud]

ummmm....
"Nintendo has done a hell of a lot? What about the PS1-PS2 transistion Sony has done? Has ANY other company kept the coveted "Best Selling" system for two generations in a row? Not that I can remember."

how about a little thing called....GAMEBOY (best selling system of ALL TIME BAR NONE!)

ie: no I'm not a nintendo fanboy...I own a 2 DS's and wish I hadnt bought them, I have nothing to play on them cept gameboy games right now....I hope they release some games for it soon....

[Liquidize105]

Doing it first - No, we have already come to the conclusion that this is a Nintend-boy lie.

Doing it right - No, Nintendo had to drop their system to $100 dollars to keep a respectable 3rd place in this last generation.

Making it big - Uh, erm, what? I think you're just spouting nonsense now.

Nintendo has done a hell of a lot? What about the PS1-PS2 transistion Sony has done? Has ANY other company kept the coveted "Best Selling" system for two generations in a row? Not that I can remember.


You don't get it; success is not a direct result being the "best", it certainly doesn't justify it either. there's timing, context, marketing, a whole array of things that you, by taking my post apart, apparently are ignorant of.

And don't omit stuff that hurt your argument :rolleyes:

[Tricky Thumb]

You guys are being idiots.

This is not 1991, the SNES is ancient history and since then Nintendo has released two console systems since then and has not been the top company in the videogame industry. The PSP has already sold TWICE the amount of the DS, so I think your "Gameboy is the best selling system ever" claim is going to become less potent eventually as well.

See I'm not even AGAINST Nintendo. What I'm against is irritatingly ignorant people like the ones posting in this thread who have to subsitute smiley-faces for wit and brains for balls.

[Liquidize105]

Dude, I think you need a break.

[Tricky Thumb]

I think you need to give it a break.

[Liquidize105]

There's no ignorant people here, okay? People give dues when dues are deserved.

Nintendo has had a lot of firsts that are done right.

But one thing I really don't like, and something you did, is to personally name-call someone else for his/her comment. Keep in mind that you don't know these people. Labeling is too convenient.

[crackeriah]

This is not 1991, the SNES is ancient history and since then Nintendo has released two console systems since then and has not been the top company in the videogame industry.
...
What I'm against is irritatingly ignorant people like the ones posting in this thread who have to subsitute smiley-faces for wit and brains for balls.
This discussion is about INNOVATION, not sales or market dominance. And the PS2 has shown VERY LITTLE innovation over the PS1. PS2 has better graphics and can play DVDs, and that's about it. The Dualshock existed for the PS1 (as a response to Nintendo's thumbstick).

In terms of console hardware, very little has changed since the PS1. The PS2, XBox and GameCube are virtually interchangeable for that reason. XBox 360 and PS3 look poised to continue the trend...more processing power, better graphics, more fleshed-out online services, but nothing really new.

You have to give Nintendo SOME credit for not following the herd.

EDIT: Whoops, forgot the balls for ya. Here ya go:
OO

[Tricky Thumb]

Yeah, because the Virtual Boy, Jaguar, 3DO and Dreamcast all succeeded because they were innovative.

[TrackZero]

"DRRRR NITENDO IS AWESOMZORZ", come on this is like one big Nintendo fanboy circle jerk. Lets be honest, m'kay? Nintendo has been covering up it's failings and shortcomings with this "creativity" bullshit. Or at least, the Nintendo fanboys are doing so.

Where was Nintendo when the online scene exploded?

Where was Nintendo when everyone switched to a disc format?

Where was Nintendo when everyone started acknowledging "older" gamers?

I love Nintendo just as much as the next gamer, but you know you're full of shit when you try to claim Nintendo "cares" or "tries" more/harder than any other console company. Now all you fankiddies can go crawl back under the Virtual Boy you came up from.

You think online was innovative? LMFAO. PCs did it first, get over it. Nintendo simply misjudged the growth of it. They thought it would take another generation before it turned big. And technically, they DO have a broadband adapter for their console, developers simply didn't use it. So who should you blame there? The software developers who didn't write online games or the hardware manufacturer who made hardware to play online?

Nintendo stood by cartridges because there were no loading times. That turned out to be a mistake, true. Though personally I don't view it as that big a deal, considering most of the PS1 games used the optical media for was just pre-rendered movies anyways.

Older gamers? You mean, more mature titles right? Prehaps you've never bothered to play Eternal Darkness, Resident Evil 4 + Series, Splinter Cell Series, Bloodrayne, BMX XXX, Dead to Rights, Def Jam: Fight for NY, DRIV3R, Killer 7, Metal Gear Solid: Twin Snakes, Mortal Kombat Series, Geist, PoP 2, Hunter: The Reckoning, The Suffering, etc. I mean, damnit the list goes on. Just because you have kiddie games on a system DOESN'T mean it can't have mature titles as well, you just pretend they aren't there in your mind. This may also shock you, but older gamers often have more of an appreciation for gameplay mechanics than worrying about if there are enough boobies and guns to make them feel like a man (that's left for 15yr old PS2 gamers, or kids who play Xbox gore games to make them feel 'mature').

Considering it's the longest-standing company out of the big 3 (being in the business longer than the other 2 combined), obviously they're going to have more failures that stand out, as they've taken more chances over the years. It isn't fanboyism to take an objective (but fair look) at Nintendo as a company. It's conceeded that Nintendo does make mistakes, but they generally do care about the gameplay experience, keeping their properties alive and ensuring that people have fun with their systems. They simply aren't as focused on the bottom line ($$$) as Sony and Microsoft are, which is a good thing. If you don't like what they do, fine, but don't hate the company because they decide to do things differently.

[TrackZero]

You guys are being idiots.

This is not 1991, the SNES is ancient history and since then Nintendo has released two console systems since then and has not been the top company in the videogame industry. The PSP has already sold TWICE the amount of the DS, so I think your "Gameboy is the best selling system ever" claim is going to become less potent eventually as well.

See I'm not even AGAINST Nintendo. What I'm against is irritatingly ignorant people like the ones posting in this thread who have to subsitute smiley-faces for wit and brains for balls.

DS has outsold the PSP by twice the amount, not the other way around. I'm not going to post specific numbers on this AGAIN, since this would be about the 4th thread I'd have done so. Currently Nintendo has sold 5 million DSes worldwide, Sony hasn't reached half that, go hunting if you want more specifics. That's not even counting Gameboy sales. So please, stop being one of these 'irritatingly ignorant people' because you're wasting my time.

[thecrazyd]

Fuck sucess, I want good games that do things differently.

[Savok]

I think a little piece of everyone died when they first heard the Xbox 360's design was based on the "inhale".

As for Nintendo, well Evil Avatar is known for its anti-Nintendo bias. Fact is out of the Big 3 only Nintendo has the balls to make games like Wind Waker, even when it seemed everyone was against the game they pushed on. We need them in other words.

[LikeTheRazor]

Hey Tricky Thumb, I would like to know where you are coming from. What was your first console purchase?

[KDups]

I think a little piece of everyone died when they first heard the Xbox 360's design was based on the "inhale".

Heh, so true. I'm pretty excited about the thing, but their "inhale" design philosophy coupled with their "360 puts the gamer at the center" are kind of silly. Just say you thought it looked cool, and 360 sounds 357 more than the PS3. That would be enough for most of us.

[Heretic Machine]

Ok.. enough is enough...

Gimmcik =/= Innovation.

The DS isn't innovative in any way, shape, or form. If anything, it's a blatant demonstration of why Nintendo is not the leading "innovator" in the console market today. I bought it on the first day, and since then it has brought very little joy into my life. Thus far there have been no games that have come out for it which supply me with more fun or a terribly original experience, touch screen or not. I'm not saying the PSP is great or anything, but at least they're putting out games that are actually decent rather than crap that is simply trying to take advantage of the extremly limited (and often botched) possiblities of the touch screen.

Then there is the N64... which was my worst purchase EVER... and I happen to own both a Sega CD and a Virtual Boy. The Gamecube is alright, I like it better than my PS2, but it has a distinct lack of innovation with the exception of Animal Crossing. It's actually lagging behind because of the lack of online support, something that is actually really fun and useful. Instead they have GBA link ups and a badly designed secondary analog stick. This is not innovation, it's gimmicky.

EDIT: Oh, I'd just like to point out that the Dreamcast had been online support than the GC, and that's nearly a generation behind.

[Dragos]

So who should you blame there? The software developers who didn't write online games or the hardware manufacturer who made hardware to play online?


I blame the hardware company that failed to push the product and create a market for it, which would have given reason for 3rd parties to create online games, blaming 3rd parties for not wanting to blow money on setting up servers for a service that might not catch on due to lack of real support from Nintendo is stupid.

[Furious Wang]

I want faceplates AND games.

Oh, and I also want this argument to end. Its not like anyone with remote knowledge of the industry expects the Revolution to be a success or even to propel Nintendo past this next generation of consoles. The demographics are against them, gGamer preferences are against them, and they are Queer Eye for the Straight Guy out of game ideas.

Here's what you're gonna see on the Revolution:

1 Tired re-iterations of the same old standbye properties with better graphics, online mini-game functionality, and random design gimmick.
2 A handful of "innovative" games made by the big designer's 3rd-string teams that won't sell.

And that's it.

The *massive* design costs of tommorrow's games and the unique aspects of each system are going to prohibit the 3rd party cross platform development that we see today. Developers are going to flock to the easiest platform to develop for and that is handsdown the 360. Their PC like design will trump the Rev's weird controller PS3's untested tech and in-order processing.

Nintendo's fatal flaw was a misunderstanding of the market. They thought everyone wanted to play saturday morning cartoons and not movies. Well they were wrong. People DO want to play movies. The 16 - 35 demographic is much broader with more money to spend than the 8-16. And you know what else? Today's Saturday morning cartoons are much different than what Nintendo had thought. Now the kids all watch anime.

I have fond memories of Nintendo games, but their time has passed. Though the gaming idealists may hate to face the music, its game over for Nintendo no matter what they pull off for the Revolution.

[TrackZero]

I blame the hardware company that failed to push the product and create a market for it, which would have given reason for 3rd parties to create online games, blaming 3rd parties for not wanting to blow money on setting up servers for a service that might not catch on due to lack of real support from Nintendo is stupid.

It's no different than PS2's online strategy. All they released was the hardware. It's up to the developers to run the servers. The only reason their online system even worked is because their game sales were high enough for developers to feel comfortable in doing so.

I agreed they missed the boat because they misjudged how quickly online would become a factor, they're since correcting this mistake which you'll see at E3. Whereas Sony sounds like they're merely repeating their online "experience" thus far.

[Kelegacy]

I think a little piece of everyone died when they first heard the Xbox 360's design was based on the "inhale".

As for Nintendo, well Evil Avatar is known for its anti-Nintendo bias. Fact is out of the Big 3 only Nintendo has the balls to make games like Wind Waker, even when it seemed everyone was against the game they pushed on. We need them in other words.

I agree with you and TrackZero. (was wondering when Track would join the the fray :) ) We NEED Nintendo. I didnt fully realize that until the announcement of the Xbox360. The creator of this thread summed it up well: I felt a tad sick when i saw the 360. This Pablo guy is also pretty spot-on...each round we wipe the slate clean and start anew with basically the same goddamned shit. I am an instant fan of his arguements...they are totally valid. I'm 24 and have been playing games for 20 + years and I havent seen much in the way of evolution over the past decade. And now with this new round focusing more on resolution and graphics, it looks like we're mired in a turd bog.

I am a huge Sony fan, I enjoy my XBox to some extent, and I will always care about Nintendo because they seem to care about me. With that said, I see that Sony's success in the field hasn't been wholly good...hell, it brought Microsoft out of the woodwork. Their newest system is more of the same, with little to no innovation. It's basically the Xbox with a better CPU and other tech. I know the PS3 will probably be similar, but I want something new. Microsoft could have been a great contender...but they are trying to beat Sony by throwing huge swaths of money around--fighting fire with fire. Everyone knows that to fight fire, you need water or Halon gas. More fire will only cause the blaze to spread. It's moronic.

This water I'm talking about is something entirely new and different. I'm holding out that Nintendo's machine will truly be innovative--God knows we need it. I fear that I'm overshooting my hope margin though...innovation might just be queer new controllers. I'd like to see someone deviate from the norm and blaze a new trail for the future of gaming. I bet I'll still enjoy the MS and Sony machines...but how long can we aging gamers keep doing the same shit? Sony brought gaming into the mainstream...shouldnt someone capitalize on that audience by leading us over the mountain like the Pied Piper, blowing a different, mesmerizing tune on that pipe?

I sincerely hope the other two consoles do something different. Microsoft didnt win me over...in fact, i feel alienated. But here I am on Evil Avatar, home of the Xboys. I should know better by now than to say anything bad about them...but I don't. So tough shit.

[TrackZero]

I want faceplates AND games.

Oh, and I also want this argument to end. Its not like anyone with remote knowledge of the industry expects the Revolution to be a success or even to propel Nintendo past this next generation of consoles.

Thanks for speaking for me, even though I completely disagree with you. Save your 'sky is falling' speech for someone else. As long as Nintendo is still in business and making money, then they're still here. I have no delusions about them being #1, but I am interested in seeing what the Revolution has to offer and I refuse to speculate beforehand (especially cynically).

The video's author's point was that ALL of the current companies are sitting on their asses and he hopes that of them, Nintendo will pick up on the ideas he's shared and moved us forward to the next level. Since you just want your faceplates, fine, but there are other gamers who want something more than the mainstream pap we've been served these last few years.

[TrackZero]

I agree with you and TrackZero. (was wondering when Track would join the the fray :) ) We NEED Nintendo. I didnt fully realize that until the announcement of the Xbox360. The creator of this thread summed it up well: I felt a tad sick when i saw the 360. This Pablo guy is also pretty spot-on...each round the we wipe the slate clean and start anew with basically the same goddamned shit. I am an instant fan of his arguements...they are totally valid. I'm 24 and have been playing games for 20 years or more and I havent seen much in the way of evolution over the past decade or so. And now with this new round focusing more on resolution and graphics, it looks like we're mired in a turd bog.

I am a huge Sony fan, I enjoy my XBox to some extent, and I will always care about Nintendo because they seem to care about me. With that said, I see that Sony's success in the field hasn't been wholly good...hell, it brought Microsoft out of the woodwork. Their newest system is more of the same, with little to no innovation. It's basically the Xbox with a better CPU and other tech. I know the PS3 will probably be similar, but I want something new. Microsoft could have been a great contender...but they are trying to beat Sony by throwing huge swaths of money around--fighting fire with fire. Everyone knows that to fight fire, you need water or Halon gas. More fire will only cause the blaze to spread. It's moronic.

This water I'm talking about is something entirely new and different. I'm holding out that Nintendo's machine will truly be innovative--God knows we need it. I fear that I'm overshooting my hope margin though...innovation might just be queer new controllers. I'd like to see someone deviate from the norm and blaze a new trail for the future of gaming. I bet I'll still enjoy the MS and Sony machines...but how long can we aging gamers keep doing the same shit? Sony brought gaming into the mainstream...shouldnt someone capitalize on that audience by leading us over the mountain like the Pied Piper, blowing a different, mesmerizing tune on that pipe?

I sincerely hope the other two consoles do something different. Microsoft didnt win me over...in fact, i feel alienated. But here I am on Evil Avatar, home of the Xboys. I should know better by now than to say anything bad about them...but I don't. So tough shit.

Well put man!

[Heretic Machine]

What exactly do you people want? You keep saying you want something different, why don't you explain exactly what it is that you want? Different shit hasn't been tried because most of it is just that, shit. I'm twenty years old, and I'm still pretty pleased playing many games, as long as they have some minute amount of innovation or neatness (usually supplied by PC games), you guys seem to just want to scrap everything that's ever been done and just start from scratch. Well I hate to tell you this, but it an't happening, gameing is the way it is for a reason. It works, it's fun.

[Furious Wang]

Fact is out of the Big 3 only Nintendo has the balls to make games like Wind Waker, even when it seemed everyone was against the game they pushed on. We need them in other words.

Dear Savok,

Please let this go. Wind Waker was a great game - if you took out all the sailing. Unfortunately, the game would then be half as long.

Sailing around on a solid blue screen was not fun and definately no way to spend 20 hours of game time. Anyone who thinks otherwise was smoking mass amounts of kind bud while they played and probably would have enjoyed watching grass grow just the same.

The main problem gamers have with Nintendo is that Nintendo doesn't listen to gamers. Gamers say, "Give us another awesome Zelda game! You know, like OoT!" And Nintendo gives them a sailboat simulator with cartoon graphics. Gamers say, "Give us another awesome Mario game! You know, like Mario 64!" And Nintendo gives them a fireman simulator with a final level that's near impossible to beat (How many people actually got through that damn lava boat part, and how many tries did it take you?). Gamers say, "Give us online support so we can play awesome games like Smash Bros and Mario Kart and Mario Party and Metroid Online!" And Nintendo gives them a broadband adapter that works with what, 3 games?

"Give us more *good* mature games like Eternal Darkness or RE4" Silence

"How about 1st party Racing Sims or Licensed Sports games? You know, for grown ups" Silence

Come on guys, if Nintendo was doing the things Sony and Microsoft was doing, do you REALLY think either of them would stand a chance against the big N? People don't have some irrational hatred for Nintendo, they just don't have the foggiest clue why Nintendo acts the way it does against all evidence against it. Its like watching a child repeatedly walk into a wall when there's a door 2 feet to his right. The kid could eventually break a hole in the wall and walk right out, but its far more likely he'll give himself a concussion and pass out first.

[Heretic Machine]

Personally, my probelm with Wind Waker was that it was too much like OoT... The gameplay was almost exactly the same. I didn't want to play the same game all over again...

[Kelegacy]

What exactly do you people want? You keep saying you want something different, why don't you explain exactly what it is that you want? Different shit hasn't been tried because most of it is just that, shit. I'm twenty years old, and I'm still pretty pleased playing many games, as long as they have some minute amount of innovation or neatness (usually supplied by PC games), you guys seem to just want to scrap everything that's ever been done and just start from scratch. Well I hate to tell you this, but it an't happening, gameing is the way it is for a reason. It works, it's fun.

The PC has the most potential for gaming innovation, I think. But PC gaming is dying off, and anyone who doesnt believe me should look at the releases in the past two years. Only the big ones stand out...Half Life, WoW and Doom. RPGing has been reduced to MMO games and hack and slashers. Hell, last year there wasnt a single RPG that was released that I played, besides Beyond Divinity. The releases are at a trickle and though the PC gamer probably wont become extinct, they are becoming endangered.

As a PC gamer, i throw my dwindling PC mags around the bathroom in disgust...they have to add more and more advertisements to even make for a 40 page periodical. It sickens me, but it's the future. !Muerte a la revolucion!

[Heretic Machine]

Only the big ones stand out...Half Life, WoW and Doom.

City of Heroes
UT2004
Battlefield 1942
The Sims 2
Morrowind

These are all really great games that have come out over the past few years, and there are plenty of games coming out that have a lot to offer. I don't really understand what you mean by only the big ones stand out, however... That's what big games do, they stand out.

[Draft]

You guys who "felt sick" during the 360 announcement need to like, discover girls or something, cause damn.

[jacktion]

What exactly do you people want? You keep saying you want something different, why don't you explain exactly what it is that you want? Different shit hasn't been tried because most of it is just that, shit. I'm twenty years old, and I'm still pretty pleased playing many games, as long as they have some minute amount of innovation or neatness (usually supplied by PC games), you guys seem to just want to scrap everything that's ever been done and just start from scratch. Well I hate to tell you this, but it an't happening, gameing is the way it is for a reason. It works, it's fun.

Gaming is boring. We have games with mecha armor fighting demons with big guns, and war simulation games. We want something new. Why do 99% of games revolve around guns? Why does the movie industry have romances and comedies and war movies and sci-fi and etc. but all gaming has are killing games?(and racing and sports, yes I know) What if you made a game that wasn't about killing but you could just talk to people? What if games where used in schools to simulate moments in history? A fps recreation of George Washington crossing the delaware. Or you could sit in the back row during the signing of the Declaration of Independence? What about a National Geographic line of games where you are a cheetah trying to survive in Africa? Breed and hunt and raise your kids? What about the Clement Greenberg school of thought where games should be distilled down to the essence of a game. No artificial figurative recreations of people or guns, just using a controller to manipulate shapes and forms in an intuitively designed game?
Damn, we just want something new! Progress this industry forward! When you look at the first 30 years, no, 60 years of cinema, it was all pretty shitty with rare moments of genius. We are doing the exact same thing here and our grandkids are going to look back and say, "damn, why did they make and play the same lame crap over and over and over?" It would be nice if we would have the foresight, or hindsight, to skip this slow evolution and use our brains to jump ahead to the good stuff.

[fushi]

If Nintendo dumps Mario as a company mascot, then I'll believe in a revolution. I love almost every Mario game I've played, but I'm slowly growing tired of it. I'm tired of familiar worlds, characters, everything. I want something else and I want that something to DOMINATE. Yeah.

Enchant me, Nintendo, and I'll never let go. Fool me again and... I guess we can still be friends :)

Also, to everyone whining that EA is home to some Xbox maniacs: it's getting tired. Evil himself hardly ever posts anything anti-Nintendo anymore and when he does, then he does it for good reason. Same goes with most of the other frequent posters and administrators (that "no free online"-thing was lame though :) ). Most of the damage is usually being done by the pro-Nintendo people who defend the company with the same old (and fairly vague) facts. And when someone debunks these facts, then the pro-Nintendo crowd becomes defensive and starts bashing the other companies for no reason whatsoever and thus the heated discussions begin. Accusing someone of being a blind fanboy also helps a lot to keep the agression at bay :)

[Heretic Machine]

Gaming is boring. We have games with mecha armor fighting demons with big guns, and war simulation games. We want something new. Why do 99% of games revolve around guns? Why does the movie industry have romances and comedies and war movies and sci-fi and etc. but all gaming has are killing games?(and racing and sports, yes I know) What if you made a game that wasn't about killing but you could just talk to people? What if games where used in schools to simulate moments in history? A fps recreation of George Washington crossing the delaware. Or you could sit in the back row during the signing of the Declaration of Independence? What about a National Geographic line of games where you are a cheetah trying to survive in Africa? Breed and hunt and raise your kids? What about the Clement Greenberg school of thought where games should be distilled down to the essence of a game. No artificial figurative recreations of people or guns, just using a controller to manipulate shapes and forms in an intuitively designed game?

Everything you mentioned has been done, or is being built toward currently.

[Kelegacy]

City of Heroes
UT2004
Battlefield 1942
The Sims 2
Morrowind

These are all really great games that have come out over the past few years, and there are plenty of games coming out that have a lot to offer. I don't really understand what you mean by only the big ones stand out, however... That's what big games do, they stand out.

I dont want to get into a PC discussion in this thread, but what I meant is that I can name nearly all the good games in 2004 on two hands and have room to spare, but compared to the consoles they pale horribly. Quantity doesnt mean quality, but in this case the consoles released some great games and in large numbers of titles. I played Morrowind in 2002, when it came out. Most of the others you name are multiplayer games so where are the other genres? They are still around, but the selection is much thinner than it ever was.

PC gaming, though more powerful (tech-wise) than ever, has a declining library of games with each passing year. Europe seems to be the last hotbed of PC developers. I hope that they incubate and spread like a GOOD batch of herpes. Um...well you know what I mean. I want more stuff to play on my PC. I'd rather play games on my PC anyday, but the pessimist has to believe that PC gaming will suffer as the consoles bridge the gap.

[jacktion]

Everything you mentioned has been done, or is being built toward currently.

me want more

[Draft]

Gaming is boring. We have games with mecha armor fighting demons with big guns, and war simulation games. We want something new. Why do 99% of games revolve around guns? Why does the movie industry have romances and comedies and war movies and sci-fi and etc. but all gaming has are killing games?(and racing and sports, yes I know) What if you made a game that wasn't about killing but you could just talk to people? What if games where used in schools to simulate moments in history? A fps recreation of George Washington crossing the delaware. Or you could sit in the back row during the signing of the Declaration of Independence? What about a National Geographic line of games where you are a cheetah trying to survive in Africa? Breed and hunt and raise your kids? What about the Clement Greenberg school of thought where games should be distilled down to the essence of a game. No artificial figurative recreations of people or guns, just using a controller to manipulate shapes and forms in an intuitively designed game?The reason there's no crossing the delaware game is because it was slow, cold and boring.

But you go ahead with that shape thing. I'll play some Resident Evil 4.

[fushi]

You guys who "felt sick" during the 360 announcement need to like, discover girls or something, cause damn.
There are some of us who see videogames as a viable artform, i.e. something that can offer the player a new, captivating, aesthetic experience, rather than the pure joy of play. And these few see the HD era as a hindrance to creativity for reasons you know all too well. Of course I don't mean this as something black and white, but I'll admit one thing -- none of the currently shown Xbox 360 games interest me, Alan Wake being the only exception, but that could easily end up being a Max Paybe clone. Frame City Killer also looked kind of atmospheric and sublime, but that's about it.

Ugh, my reply is too vague. Sorry. I like girls, but I also enjoy transcending virtual realities.

[Draft]

There are some of us who see videogames as a viable artform, i.e. something that can offer the player a new, captivating, aesthetic experience, rather than the pure joy of play. And these few see the HD era as a hindrance to creativity for reasons you know all too well. Of course I don't mean this as something black and white, but I'll admit one thing -- none of the currently shown Xbox 360 games interest me, Alan Wake being the only exception, but that could easily end up being a Max Paybe clone. Frame City Killer also looked kind of atmospheric and sublime, but that's about it.

Ugh, my reply is too vague. Sorry. I like girls, but I also enjoy transcending virtual realities.You guys just... you do realize PC gaming has been "in the HD era" for like, a dozen years?

[Heretic Machine]

There are some of us who see videogames as a viable artform, i.e. something that can offer the player a new, captivating, aesthetic experience, rather than the pure joy of play. And these few see the HD era as a hindrance to creativity for reasons you know all too well. Of course I don't mean this as something black and white, but I'll admit one thing -- none of the currently shown Xbox 360 games interest me, Alan Wake being the only exception, but that could easily end up being a Max Paybe clone. Frame City Killer also looked kind of atmospheric and sublime, but that's about it.


What you said made no sence. You want an aesthetic experience that isn't pretty, and isn't made fun from gameplay. What the hell? I don't know what you're looking for, but it isn't a video game my friend.

[fushi]

You guys just... you do realize PC gaming has been "in the HD era" for like, a dozen years?
Yes, countless WWII shooters have proven that quite well. But the PC in itself is a very versatile platform which allows it to have a diverse selection of products. That and the ease of distribution of fan-made software (The doujin-shooters from Japan are a good example for this). Consoles do not enjoy such freedoms, although they might in the future,

[Kelegacy]

You guys who "felt sick" during the 360 announcement need to like, discover girls or something, cause damn.

I have always been able to keep my "geek tendencies" on the backburner, or in the closet while the rest of my life plays out. I was a highschool jock, had my share of young fillies during high school and college, drank myself down a road of sinful excess while pursuing my degree for 4 years. I always was embarrassed when my highschool girlfriend would tell her cheerleading squad that I like to read, write, and play videogames for fun. I would scream, "dont TELL them THAT!!" It was like I was trying to live two lives, keeping my personal enjoyment separate from my social existence. I was a sports-lover/player who enjoyed RPG's and fantasy books. I was a guy with a beautiful girlfriend who couldnt wait until she left for work so I could fire up some Soul Reaver or Star Ocean, watch some Star Wars, or crack open my Terry Goodkind book.

I've since moved on. My friends still don't enjoy gaming and shit like I do, so I come onto EvAv to find likeminded people...here I don't have to be the star shortstop, the funny drunk, or the good-looking guy who should "have a girlfriend/wife by now so he can give me lots of grandkids--oh why haven't you settled down by now??" No, I enjoy eeking out my "normal" existence, but here I can release my geek dreams and not feel icky. Or at least I thought I could.

[Savok]

Also, to everyone whining that EA is home to some Xbox maniacs: it's getting tired. Evil himself hardly ever posts anything anti-Nintendo anymore and when he does, then he does it for good reason. Same goes with most of the other frequent posters and administrators (that "no free online"-thing was lame though :) ). Most of the damage is usually being done by the pro-Nintendo people who defend the company with the same old (and fairly vague) facts. And when someone debunks these facts, then the pro-Nintendo crowd becomes defensive and starts bashing the other companies for no reason whatsoever and thus the heated discussions begin. Accusing someone of being a blind fanboy also helps a lot to keep the agression at bay :)

Missed the mini-scandel with BA then?

And y'know, I remember going through the same shit many years ago now, when the GC was the newest thing Nintendo had. Nintendo is dying, Nintendo has lost it, blah blah blah, next generation after and nothing's changed, Nintendo is still here, comfortably so.

Nintendo does what Nintendo wants to do, for richer or poorer, not pandering to some MTV demographic that requires EA Trax in every game they play.

And Wang, you're the same type of asshole bitching the last time around, you think you should be in charge of Nintendo as you know how best. What Nintendo does works for Nintendo, what makes them Nintendo, sorry they have their own ideas.

[Heretic Machine]

I've since moved on. My friends still don't enjoy gaming and shit like I do, so I come onto EvAv to find likeminded people...here I don't have to be the star shortstop, the funny drunk, or the good-looking guy who should "have a girlfriend/wife by now so he can give me lots of grandkids--oh why haven't you settled down by now??" No, I enjoy eeking out my "normal" existence, but here I can release my geek dreams and not feel icky. Or at least I thought I could.

Sounds like you have a pretty crappy existence... You're ashamed of being a geek? That's horrid. I revel in being a geek, and I'm really only interested in geek girls, which are more plentiful than most people think. Sure I don't fit in with most crowds, but I'm really really happy with my life most of the time. Dunno why anyone would want to be a closet geek...

[Furious Wang]

Gaming is boring.

I respect your opinion. You should stop playing games that you find boring.


Why do 99% of games revolve around guns?
This is America. America likes guns. Why do you hate America?

Why does the movie industry have romances and comedies and war movies and sci-fi and etc. but all gaming has are killing games?(and racing and sports, yes I know)

And RPGs and Action games and Adventure games and Horror games and war games and sci-fi games and games with romantic elements and games with comedic elements and puzzle games and games based on movies and killing games and non killing games.

What if you made a game that wasn't about killing but you could just talk to people?
They made that game already, it was called Shenmue and Animal Crossing.

What if games where used in schools to simulate moments in history? A fps recreation of George Washington crossing the delaware. Or you could sit in the back row during the signing of the Declaration of Independence? What about a National Geographic line of games where you are a cheetah trying to survive in Africa? Breed and hunt and raise your kids?

They do make educational games. How are you not aware of this? Here's one: How about a game where you're in the old west and you have to drive a wagon train with your family and supplies from the East Coast to the West Coast while hunting Oxen to extinction and dying of cholera?

What about the Clement Greenberg school of thought where games should be distilled down to the essence of a game. No artificial figurative recreations of people or guns, just using a controller to manipulate shapes and forms in an intuitively designed game?

Then you'd have an out of business company.

Damn, we just want something new! Progress this industry forward!
Uh it is progressing. Every genre has progressed far more over the past two generations than it ever did during the 8/16 bit days. New genres have emerged, hybrid genres have developed. Evolution is slow and steady by definition, but is currently proceeding at its fastest rate historically.


When you look at the first 30 years, no, 60 years of cinema, it was all pretty shitty with rare moments of genius.

Uh it still is. Unless you count Elektra and ilk as genius.

We are doing the exact same thing here and our grandkids are going to look back and say, "damn, why did they make and play the same lame crap over and over and over?"

Actually, they'll probably be playing Halo X with photo realistic graphics and VR interaction and having the time of their lives. Matter of fact, so will I.


It would be nice if we would have the foresight, or hindsight, to skip this slow evolution and use our brains to jump ahead to the good stuff.

Funny, you post this big long diatribe full of criticism, then use "nice if we would use our brains" but then don't offer a single idea. Not even a bad idea.

You video game idealists are obviously close to burning out and would do well to take a break and get hooked on some outdoor activities for a while.

[jacktion]

The reason there's no crossing the delaware game is because it was slow, cold and boring.

But you go ahead with that shape thing. I'll play some Resident Evil 4.

And this basically shows us the current divide in movies, too. There are the art films, and the hollywood megabusters. There are people who consider any movie with subtitles insufferable and boring. And there are people who would rather die than be made to watch "Armageddon". It is a slow process to build up a new medium until it has a nice balance of material. Games are pretty heavily weighted towards the brain-dead "armageddon" type games right now. We need more Katamari Damarcy and ICOs and Cubivores. And maybe even more out-there stuff that isn't around yet.
I mean when you consider that there is a huge market for movies where the people just talk and resolve issues, can't we have games like that? If people will pay to watch actors recite dialogue, wouldn't it be more fun to be in the movie taking part in the dialogue? Are guns really necessary for games to be good? It seems that anything people like to watch, they would like to do even more. Think about the market for Harlequin Romance games where aging housewives get romanced by Fabio-type men. We're talking billions. Yes, there are games out there that try new things, but not very often. Most recycle the same shit.

[Lint of Death]

Anyone else love Psychonauts? I think there should be more games like that one. I do not mean the same genre, but instead the sort of things its creators put into the game. A great story, tons of humor, a unique art style, insane attention to detail, and the essential creative gameplay. Almost every area in the game is extremely different from every other. And the psychic powers are rather unconventional: temporary invincibility at will, setting things on fire for the heck of it, and the varied uses for all the powers come to mind.

Pyschonauts isn't the only game that has these things, of course. Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door is another such game. And Viewtiful Joe. These games have great humor, distinctive gameplay, and lots of artistic creativity.

It seems like, in many ways, the developers are primarily responsible for innovation in gaming. While different and "innovative" console designs can help a lot, one will never have fun, unique games without good developers. I put innovative in quotes because a lot of it isn't exactly innovative, but simply different from the norm in some significant way; like the analog sticks that made console first person shooters viable, when they showed up on the N64. One could argue these control sticks are what made 3D truly viable at all. They're generally far better than a D-pad for that purpose.

But I digress. My point is that one cannot have innovation in games without developers that put energy into making innovative games. And the Psychonauts is an amazing game.

[fushi]

What you said made no sence. You want an aesthetic experience that isn't pretty, and isn't made fun from gameplay. What the hell? I don't know what you're looking for, but it isn't a video game my friend.
You are drawing far too many conclusions and I know that it's my fault :) So I'll try to explain, with my piss-poor English.

What I meant was that we do not need the HD-era to have good-looking, emotionally or otherwise captivating games. For example: I find ICO to be a genuinely "prettier" game than anything on the 360, mostly because the former has a very strong sense of style. Basically what I mean is that by making hollywood-styled realism overly important in how a game looks, developers are making more sameish games that are dull to look at and are losing touch with some of the more sublime aspects of gaming worlds. A real world example would be comparing a Bruckheimer movie with a movie by Fincher or maybe even Wong Kar-wai. I personally find the latter choices to be far more interesting.

As for the fun and your last sentence... you may be right. I enjoy games in which you can just run around not doing anything specific besides exploring to satisfy your curiosity. Doing something like that might not be fun, as it doesn't entail much gameplay besides running and looking (but it could!). So there.

[TrackZero]

Sounds like you have a pretty crappy existence... You're ashamed of being a geek? That's horrid. I revel in being a geek, and I'm really only interested in geek girls, which are more plentiful than most people think. Sure I don't fit in with most crowds, but I'm really really happy with my life most of the time. Dunno why anyone would want to be a closet geek...

Picking apart his reasons won't have any relevance. His point is he comes to EA to express his feelings on gaming and when he comments that he likes Nintendo, some little fuck comes along and tells him to get a girlfriend. His point being, he can get girls, that has nothing to do with liking or hating Nintendo.

(Note: You can replace 'Nintendo' with anything else related to gaming. Having a girlfriend has no relevance at all on your opinions on games. If it does, that's what's really sad.)

[Heretic Machine]

They made that game already, it was called Shenmue and Animal Crossing.

And The Sims, and Harvest Moon, and every hentai game ever.

[bapenguin]

I wonder when the SNES and Genesis were coming out (Turbo Graphix as well I suppose), and I wonder if the internet was at a state it's at today, if there were message boards filled with people saying the same things. ie We want something different, something that changes gaming etc. It would be interesting.

[Kelegacy]

Sounds like you have a pretty crappy existence... You're ashamed of being a geek? That's horrid. I revel in being a geek, and I'm really only interested in geek girls, which are more plentiful than most people think. Sure I don't fit in with most crowds, but I'm really really happy with my life most of the time. Dunno why anyone would want to be a closet geek...

Yup, i am torn between realities. Maybe closet geek is too strong a term...it's more like people around me aren't knowledgeable in regards to geek culture. I have no one to talk to about games and tech. There IS this one janitor at work, but that's about it. I also tried dating geek girls, but they didnt work out...too weird for me.

I fit in with the crowds, but my enjoyment of things "geek" falls on deaf ears around here. I live in Maine, and the horrid winters should make MORE people geekish. But nope. So by looking and listening to me outside of EvAv you'd be hard pressed to know I was into nerdy things. I dont keep my interests in the closet on purpose...i'm just waiting for someone around me that shares the same interests, yet DOESNT freak me out...and can balance technoshit with mainstream enjoyments (like beer, strippers, and baseball). (some geeks dont have a firm grasp on reality...and go a little overboard sometimes. I dont want to cosplay and wait in line for Star Wars....)

[Heretic Machine]

I enjoy games in which you can just run around not doing anything specific besides exploring to satisfy your curiosity.

I do too, those are my favorite games. I don't know why I'm the only one on this site that seems to know that they exist <.<

Picking apart his reasons have any relevance. His point is he comes to EA to express his feeling on gaming and when he comments that he likes Nintendo, some little fuck comes along and tells him to get a girlfriend. His point being, he can get girls, that has nothing to do with liking or hating Nintendo

Hey, I was just commenting on his post. I don't like self-hating geeks, or anyone in general who just wants to hide theirselves and go along in the world pretending to be something their not. It's a bad thing to do, not just for their own well being, but for the rest of society as a whole. Just wanted him to know that being a geek isn't something to hide, it's something that myself and many others are proud of.

[TrackZero]

I wonder when the SNES and Genesis were coming out (Turbo Graphix as well I suppose), and I wonder if the internet was at a state it's at today, if there were message boards filled with people saying the same things. ie We want something different, something that changes gaming etc. It would be interesting.

I don't believe that would have been an issue, since gaming back then wasn't exactly targeting the mainstream like it is now. Gameplay and content was more experimental and everyone still had 3D to eventually look forward to as an agreed 'cool thing'. Everything was still fairly new and kick-ass. Though I do remember as the time thinking Nintendo was putting out a lot of "super" versions of it's NES games just with better graphics. See what that led them to?

[Draft]

I have always been able to keep my "geek tendencies" on the backburner, or in the closet while the rest of my life plays out. I was a highschool jock, had my share of young fillies during high school and college, drank myself down a road of sinful excess while pursuing my degree for 4 years. I always was embarrassed when my highschool girlfriend would tell her cheerleading squad that I like to read, write, and play videogames for fun. I would scream, "dont TELL them THAT!!" It was like I was trying to live two lives, keeping my personal enjoyment separate from my social existence. I was a sports-lover/player who enjoyed RPG's and fantasy books. I was a guy with a beautiful girlfriend who couldnt wait until she left for work so I could fire up some Soul Reaver or Star Ocean, watch some Star Wars, or crack open my Terry Goodkind book.

I've since moved on. My friends still don't enjoy gaming and shit like I do, so I come onto EvAv to find likeminded people...here I don't have to be the star shortstop, the funny drunk, or the good-looking guy who should "have a girlfriend/wife by now so he can give me lots of grandkids--oh why haven't you settled down by now??" No, I enjoy eeking out my "normal" existence, but here I can release my geek dreams and not feel icky. Or at least I thought I could.
It was just a joke.

Look, I like you. I like discussing (usually arguing) with you. But saying the Xbox special made you sick was stupid, and I'm contractually bound to mock stupid comments.

[TrackZero]

.i'm just waiting for someone around me that shares the same interests, yet DOESNT freak me out...and can balance technoshit with mainstream enjoyments (like beer, strippers, and baseball). (some geeks dont have a firm grasp on reality...and go a little overboard sometimes. I dont want to cosplay and wait in line for Star Wars....)

Too bad I don't live down there K, we could hang. Though you'd have to swap baseball for hockey, it's a little too slow for me. ;)

[Heretic Machine]

Yup, i am torn between realities. Maybe closet geek is too strong a term...it's more like people around me aren't knowledgeable in regards to geek culture. I have no one to talk to about games and tech. There IS this one janitor at work, but that's about it. I also tried dating geek girls, but they didnt work out...too weird for me.

I fit in with the crowds, but my enjoyment of things "geek" falls on deaf ears around here. I live in Maine, and the horrid winters should make MORE people geekish. But nope. So by looking and listening to me outside of EvAv you'd be hard pressed to know I was into nerdy things. I dont keep my interests in the closet on purpose...i'm just waiting for someone around me that shares the same interests, yet DOESNT freak me out...and can balance technoshit with mainstream enjoyments (like beer, strippers, and baseball). (some geeks dont have a firm grasp on reality...and go a little overboard sometimes. I dont want to cosplay and wait in line for Star Wars....)

...You don't think geeks like beer and strippers? You, my friend, never went to college. Or at least never met the right people in college. Being a geek is at least 25% beer and strippers. Just ask anyone who has gone to E3.

As for waiting in line for Star Wars... that's not really that boreing. It's like a camping trip, but with geeks. I mean sure, not all geeks are great, there is actually a whole other level other them that just suck the fun out of life. Most of them are obssessed with anime these days, so it's really easy to avoid them.

But my suggestion to you would be to go find a local University or some such, and find out if there is a gaming club there. Or go to a comic book shop, and do the same. Both are good sources of geekness.

[jacktion]

I respect your opinion. You should stop playing games that you find boring.

I'm trying.

And RPGs and Action games and Adventure games and Horror games and war games and sci-fi games and games with romantic elements and games with comedic elements and puzzle games and games based on movies and killing games and non killing games.

Pretty much all those games are you with a gun, (or magic) killing monsters.

They made that game already, it was called Shenmue and Animal Crossing.

That's the problem, 2 games versus thousands of games with you killing monsters. Aren't we sick of killing monsters yet?

They do make educational games. How are you not aware of this? Here's one: How about a game where you're in the old west and you have to drive a wagon train with your family and supplies from the East Coast to the West Coast while hunting Oxen to extinction and dying of cholera?

Please. Our grandkids will go into class and put on their headsets as their teacher leads them through a photorealistic version of the civil war.

Then you'd have an out of business company.

Probably you're right. hah!

Uh it is progressing. Every genre has progressed far more over the past two generations than it ever did during the 8/16 bit days. New genres have emerged, hybrid genres have developed. Evolution is slow and steady by definition, but is currently proceeding at its fastest rate historically.

I am not so sure. By hybrid genres do you mean instead of killing zombies or nazis, we can now kill zombie nazis?


Uh it still is. Unless you count Elektra and ilk as genius.]

I guess I don't consider every movie ever made complete crap if that's what you are suggesting. I think some people would agree that there are some good ones out there.


Actually, they'll probably be playing Halo X with photo realistic graphics and VR interaction and having the time of their lives. Matter of fact, so will I.

Doesn't that seem depressing? I would put a lot of money down that our grandkids will not be playing Halo X. No more than we are watching a sequel to a D.W. Griffith movie.

Funny, you post this big long diatribe full of criticism, then use "nice if we would use our brains" but then don't offer a single idea. Not even a bad idea.

I was at least trying for bad ideas. Really? I had no ideas in there? shoot.

You video game idealists are obviously close to burning out and would do well to take a break and get hooked on some outdoor activities for a while.

You are probably right.

[Kelegacy]

And this basically shows us the current divide in movies, too. There are the art films, and the hollywood megabusters. There are people who consider any movie with subtitles insufferable and boring. And there are people who would rather die than be made to watch "Armageddon". It is a slow process to build up a new medium until it has a nice balance of material. Games are pretty heavily weighted towards the brain-dead "armageddon" type games right now. We need more Katamari Damarcy and ICOs and Cubivores. And maybe even more out-there stuff that isn't around yet.
I mean when you consider that there is a huge market for movies where the people just talk and resolve issues, can't we have games like that? If people will pay to watch actors recite dialogue, wouldn't it be more fun to be in the movie taking part in the dialogue? Are guns really necessary for games to be good? It seems that anything people like to watch, they would like to do even more. Think about the market for Harlequin Romance games where aging housewives get romanced by Fabio-type men. We're talking billions. Yes, there are games out there that try new things, but not very often. Most recycle the same shit.

Good point. Most people like XXX, Armageddon or other standard Hollywood blockbusters, but I revel in films like Sideways, Chinatown, the Graduate, and other movies that have some substance. I still enjoy mainstream stuff, but the huge market for drivel means that there's alot more of it.

The same can be said with books, games, and music. People fear taking chances because it means monetary losses and ridicule. Katamari and ICO are great examples of how different can be good. (but ICO didnt sell too well, sadly). Alot of music I listen to these days is the same studio-tailored bullshit. Fantasy, horror, sci-fi...it's cliched bullshit...but there's a rare gem every so often. We are a culture that loves to recycle ideas and entertainment and call it new, yet we cant seem to recycle our own refuse. Go figure. That just means we love trashy "new" things. yeah, that sums it up pretty much.

[fushi]

I do too, those are my favorite games. I don't know why I'm the only one on this site that seems to know that they exist <.<
Could you give me a few examples then? I'm not trying to be sarcastic, I just would like to know what you consider to be games of this.. er... way of gameplay.

All of this has actually made me wonder why I like certain types of games and dislike others. I don't mind shooting stuff or being generally agressive in games, actually, because I love the Mega Man franchise (yes!) and I play a lot of shooters, yet I despise almost every FPS except Half-Life 2, which was awesome. And I have yet to enjoy any multiplayer games except maybe Rollcage. Even Smash Brothers and Power Stone bored me.

[Achilles]

Fact is out of the Big 3 only Nintendo has the balls to make games like Wind Waker, even when it seemed everyone was against the game they pushed on. A cell shaded sequel to Zelda:OOT, a game that sold ~20 million units? Yes, how daring. It even played the same. There are plenty of good reasons for Nintendo to stay around and try to do better, but Wind Waker isn’t one of them. How about party games? Mario Kart, Mario Party and Super Smash Bros. are something that no other system has anything even close to. They’re games that little kids and non-gamers can play along with gamers, and they’re a social experience. Good stuff, and the best selling games on the system, I have no idea why Nintendo fans don’t mention these more.

[Heretic Machine]

Could you give me a few examples then? I'm not trying to be sarcastic, I just would like to know what you consider to be games of this.. er... way of gameplay.

First of all, why are you immediatly rejecting multiplayer games? What about MUCKs? MUCKs are all about exploring and talking to people, no fighting involved. As the the question about games, well there are the MUCKs, and then there are adventure games which in general have emphasis on exploration and plot/humor... Then there are traditional RPG's (Not J-RPG's, and not Nu*RPG's) and they have a big emphasis on exploration and interaction with the people and enviroment.

[Kelegacy]

It was just a joke.

Look, I like you. I like discussing (usually arguing) with you. But saying the Xbox special made you sick was stupid, and I'm contractually bound to mock stupid comments.

I know it was a joke. My ability to take and understand humor fails to be seen on an internet forum. "Sick" was a bad term. More like, a premonition for a stale horizon--that's what I felt. ;)

...You don't think geeks like beer and strippers? You, my friend, never went to college. Or at least never met the right people in college. Being a geek is at least 25% beer and strippers. Just ask anyone who has gone to E3.

But my suggestion to you would be to go find a local University or some such, and find out if there is a gaming club there. Or go to a comic book shop, and do the same. Both are good sources of geekness.

Yeah I went to college and did revel in my fellow geeks. But the thing is, I dont fit in too well with either crowd. I invited my entire Advanced Creative Writing class over to a party my apartment-mates and I were throwing...and it was like a clash of titans. After my friends and I were doing kegstands and I put the fifth gerbil up my ass (my party trick ;) ) they were a little freaked out. I finally left with them and we had a 2 a.m. breakfast at Denny's and indulged in literary discussions and other geek stuff . It's hard to find people with the same mixture of interests as I...i'm sort of bipolar in that respect. A person leaning too much in one direction turns me off, I think. I'm being torn between two opposing forces...people either dislike me for being too brutish or they dislike me for being too geekish. Aye, aye aye! Is there no place for the middleman, the person with refined tastes in different social "cultures"?

Too bad I don't live down there K, we could hang. Though you'd have to swap baseball for hockey, it's a little too slow for me.

Hey, i love all sports. European football (soccer) is the only organized sport I never really played in school, though I do respect it. I went to a hockey school (University of Maine...GO BLACK BEARS!!) so I developed a bloodlust for hockey there. Baseball is the sport I am best at and have played the longest...since I was old enough to hold a bat.

I'm gonna drop this "geek-in-the-closet" thing. I think I inadvertantly caused a thread derailment for a bit. Sorry.

[IndependentGMR]

Funny how this topic remained on the front page, only after it was proven false.

[crackeriah]

...and this thread is why Nintendo is still very relevant despite being third. Even if "revolution" ends up being a disappointment, Nintendo will live on in our hearts as an inspiration to the possibilities of gaming. Like Zorro.

Also, this thread is why EA is the best gaming forum on the web.

[cbs42]

Commerciality forces companies to put out new consoles every 2 or 3 years with the only intent being to erase the limits (set by current consoles) for game developers. This does not allow game developers to let their imagination run wild and delight us (the gamers) with transcendent new games.Yeah ok. The only reason we don't have more innovative games now is because we push the hardware up every few years. So, I guess if we just stuck with the NES hardware, we would have amazing games by now, right?

This dude (although an amazing artist) is so completely whacked in his analysis. It is the hardware improvements that ALLOW developers to pursue more lofty ideas, not RESTRICT them from doing so.

[mister_slim]

Oh and what the fuck? How is Ratchet and Clank, a game in which has some light platforming elements with HEAVY, HEAVY action elements a "Direct decendant" of Mario 64?
Maybe you should play Ratchet & Clank? The first one, where Insomniac somehow thought they were making a platform game and fucked up the controls? The Sunshine controls at least had a strafe button to go with the third-person shooting.
The *massive* design costs of tommorrow's games and the unique aspects of each system are going to prohibit the 3rd party cross platform development that we see today. Developers are going to flock to the easiest platform to develop for and that is handsdown the 360. Their PC like design will trump the Rev's weird controller PS3's untested tech and in-order processing.
Jesus, just fucking shut up. First, programming for the Rev is very similar to the GC, for one thing. And MS's magical solution, XNA Studio, is multiplatform. It can be used to develop for anything.
Nintendo's fatal flaw was a misunderstanding of the market. They thought everyone wanted to play saturday morning cartoons and not movies. Well they were wrong. People DO want to play movies. The 16 - 35 demographic is much broader with more money to spend than the 8-16. And you know what else? Today's Saturday morning cartoons are much different than what Nintendo had thought. Now the kids all watch anime.
First, I thought we were here because we like to play games. If I want a movie I'll watch some Stephen Chow, not Final Fantasy. But hey, if you want to think of the Xbox as an expensive DVD player feel free.
Second, have you noticed whose consoles all those FoxBox and Nick game spin-offs end up on? Have you perhaps heard of Pokemon?
Though the gaming idealists may hate to face the music, its game over for Nintendo no matter what they pull off for the Revolution.
Though the gaming retards... nevermind, I'm not sinking that low.
Please let this go. [Halo] was a great game - if you took out all the [cut 'n paste levels]. Unfortunately, the game would then be half as long.
True, very true.
I'm gonna drop this "geek-in-the-closet" thing. I think I inadvertantly caused a thread derailment for a bit. Sorry.
The thread would have been derailed either way, at least that was interesting and unpredictable.
Yeah ok. The only reason we don't have more innovative games now is because we push the hardware up every few years. So, I guess if we just stuck with the NES hardware, we would have amazing games by now, right?

This dude (although an amazing artist) is so completely whacked in his analysis. It is the hardware improvements that ALLOW developers to pursue more lofty ideas, not RESTRICT them from doing so.
You are also whacked in your analysis. Notice how all the innovative games show up for the launch of a new console? Oh, that's right, they tend to show up in the last half of the console lifespan. Notice how the Xbox and GC games have been getting better and better?

[Savok]

A cell shaded sequel to Zelda:OOT, a game that sold ~20 million units? Yes, how daring. It even played the same. There are plenty of good reasons for Nintendo to stay around and try to do better, but Wind Waker isn’t one of them. How about party games? Mario Kart, Mario Party and Super Smash Bros. are something that no other system has anything even close to. They’re games that little kids and non-gamers can play along with gamers, and they’re a social experience. Good stuff, and the best selling games on the system, I have no idea why Nintendo fans don’t mention these more.

Weren't around for the intial fallout were you? This was back when "GC is kiddie" was in full swing, entire forums were just flame wars and trolling. Then the cel shaded Zelda appeared and things got 10x worse, people were sending Nintendo fucking petitions. Nintendo responded with a polite "fuck off".

You're all forgetting Pokemon Snap as well, a sequel has the potential to be the greatest gaming experience ever made.

[bardockkun]

You're all forgetting Pokemon Snap as well, a sequel has the potential to be the greatest gaming experience ever made.

My god someone else that plays and remembers Pokemon Snap. I tell you there's no greater joy in the world than getting abunch of charmanders lined up to get an apple thrown at their head.

[Stryfe01]

Let's see...what did Nintendo do first? Off the top of my head...

Hardware firsts: D-pad, analog thumbstick, shoulder buttons, rumble, handheld gaming.

Software genre firsts: 2d mario, 3d mario, 3d zelda.

Sony? Second with an optical drive, first with 2 analog sticks, first with backwards compatibility, and first with really good 3rd party relations.

Microsoft? First decent online service.

I think it's pretty obvious Nintendo has historically been the most innovative. Now, the Gamecube has been their least innovative system thus far, which might be why they're getting killed.


How was Sony second with the optical drive for a console ? Who was first ? I thought it was Sony. remember they were developing the PS1 basically as a Nintendo partner until Nintendo shafted them.

Secondly let's not forget that Nintendo has been around longer so it's very unfair to compare feats. Especially since some things acredited to Nintendo could equally be acreditted to Sega and SNK.

Lastly Nintendo has been the biggest bully in the industry. It has done some shady ass things to developers and publishers over the years. Not to harp on them at all, but they are not as wholesome as some of you blindly see them as.

[Dirty Harry]

Does anyone else think that nintendo really screwed the pooch when it comes to netplay, its not like they released their system before online play was an important key?(what i mean is sony has an excuse, they do have online play, but its not very functional or user friendly because it was released when the idea was just budding, mircosft on the other hand grabbed the idea and ripped gamespys idea off.)

[Savok]

Hah, exactly. Get the game off rails, make it a proper world so that you can travel in cars and stuff, then dose it up to the eyeballs in atmosphere. Hell, stick it on the Revolution and give people a place to show off their best photos.

Instant classic.

[Savok]

First optical disc was CD-i I think.

[Dariath]

Nintendo needs to make this system big and make it the best. Otherwise they know they're done for. Competition will eat them alive if they mess up this next generation wars. I didn't like Gamecube much, just because it was so underutilized. Just me though.

I do know that if that video was legit, I'd be selling my kidney for it tomorrow.

[Heretic Machine]

How was Sony second with the optical drive for a console ? Who was first ? I thought it was Sony. remember they were developing the PS1 basically as a Nintendo partner until Nintendo shafted them

Sega had the Sega CD, then there was the Jaguar... I think even the Saturn came before the Playstation, but I could be wrong.

EDIT: Oh, and I completly forgot the CD-I. And ya, they weren't the second... They were like the fourth or fifth.

[bobbler]

How was Sony second with the optical drive for a console ? Who was first ? I thought it was Sony. remember they were developing the PS1 basically as a Nintendo partner until Nintendo shafted them.

Secondly let's not forget that Nintendo has been around longer so it's very unfair to compare feats. Especially since some things acredited to Nintendo could equally be acreditted to Sega and SNK.

Lastly Nintendo has been the biggest bully in the industry. It has done some shady ass things to developers and publishers over the years. Not to harp on them at all, but they are not as wholesome as some of you blindly see them as.

I believe SegaCD was first, then there was 3DO (I'm pretty sure I remember getting mine before PS1 came out) and probably another.

[Dirty Harry]

Sega had the Sega CD, then there was the Jaguar... I think even the Saturn came before the Playstation, but I could be wrong.

EDIT: Oh, and I completly forgot the CD-I. And ya, they weren't the second... They were like the fourth or fifth.
[00:34] Harry - "You know, funny thing about that mustache; it wrote me a letter....": The Sega Saturn , was released on November 22 1994, in Japan and May 1995 in the United States. The PlayStation first produced by Sony in the 1990s. It was launched in Japan on December 3, 1994, the USA on September 9, 1995 and Europe on September 29, 1995.

[bobbler]

Sega had the Sega CD, then there was the Jaguar... I think even the Saturn came before the Playstation, but I could be wrong.

EDIT: Oh, and I completly forgot the CD-I. And ya, they weren't the second... They were like the fourth or fifth.

Heh... CD-I... God I hated those Philips informercials late at night.

[Heretic Machine]

Heh... CD-I... God I hated those Philips informercials late at night.

You mean you didn't like... THE VOICE?!

BUT HOW COULD YOU RESIST MARKETING LIKE THIS? IT HAD MORE FMV GAMES THAN YOU COULD HANDLE!

[manu_pkp]

We're going really off-topic (thank goodness, that was mostly painful to read through), but I'll add one to the list - Amiga CD32 - a gaming console with a CD-drive in 1993.

[SBKidJamX]

My god someone else that plays and remembers Pokemon Snap. I tell you there's no greater joy in the world than getting abunch of charmanders lined up to get an apple thrown at their head.
What was great about Pokemon Snap was that they had these nifty little kiosks at Blockbuster where you could take your cartridge and actually print out little sticker sheets of pictures you'd taken. That was AWESOME. Sure, I probably looked like the biggest moron in the world holding my Snorlax sticker sheet but I didn't care, I couldn't wait to put those suckers into my official Nintendo Pokemon Snap strategy guide which had a designated area for putting stickers. Oh, what joy!

I've still got 'em, by the way.

[Derwin]

Is anyone as confused as I am where all the replies were suddenly gone and it turned into a completely different set of posts? It was at about 77 replies, I read them, reloaded, turned into 97 of them, and all 97 were different. Man what happened?

[jeffool]

No artificial figurative recreations of people or guns, just using a controller to manipulate shapes and forms in an intuitively designed game?

Yeah... Tetris is the best game ever, isn't it?

But this is why I hate working evenings. I miss all the good wars. Allow me to jump in with jacktion, TrackZero, and everyone else as if I were here hours ago. Games have become annoyingly stagnant. Sure people still make good games. I don't want to detract from the good games out there, those developers deserve their recognition. But it's time to raise the bar, and it's increasingly unlikely that higher resolutions, larger textures, or more polygons will do it. Sure this generation gave us internet play and mics as a normal things (via XBox Live and sure, SOCOM too,) but they were rarely used in gameplay and have been used in PC games for years. I mean, the best news so far of the next generation (as the X360 is all we know about,) is that console games will get mods. Mods took the internet over back when Doom was new. Hell, hacks before that, but that's when it gained steam. The HD-era of consoles is stillborn in the larger scheme.

Sure part of Pedro's plea is the fond rememberance we feel for Nintendo from our youth. Even if Nintendo 'tried' to bring new things to games like a 3d view (Virtual Boy,) and touch-screen, (though again computers did that for the 'mainstream' long ago too.) But despite the claims of everyone being "Nintendrones" the main fact that Pedro pointed out is that Nintendo isn't doing this. That's the problem. And I don't think it's specific to game players, either. As an "Attempting Developer" I regularly read many developer blogs. They not only often have good ideas, but are good people. Here's an interesting one I came across recently: http://www.costik.com/weblog/

Lemme quote:
In other words, maybe we're at a unique moment in history: a moment when the disatisfaction of the Old Farts meets the passion of the Young Turks, and the two can be brought together in a single strand, a challenge to conventional wisdom, a revolt against the established game order, to create a new independent movement based solidly both in the wisdom of the past and in aspirations for the future.


I'm being uncharacteristically optimistic, I know.

/edit:
Oh, and my crack about the "HD-era being stillborn?" I know that game resolutions have been higher for a long time. But what we (or at least I) am complaining about is what the title "HD-Era" represents. Just like how I (and others,) loved that analoguous Final Fantasy/PSP flash toon. The idea of media integration is on one hand attractive and convenient, and on the other offensive saying that game consoles "need" to play movies and music to be valid.

[Achilles]

Weren't around for the intial fallout were you? This was back when "GC is kiddie" was in full swing, entire forums were just flame wars and trolling. Then the cel shaded Zelda appeared and things got 10x worse, people were sending Nintendo fucking petitions.Sure I was around, but I don’t count those people as a market and I doubt Nintendo does either. If you try to play to the trolls on internet forums your game will sell 30,000 copies. By the time they showed Wind Waker they were already well into development, I don’t think any negative reaction could have gotten the thing canceled at that point. But if you notice, it certainly did change the look of the new Zelda game, and got Wind Waker 2 vanished even after it was announced.

About Pokemon Snap, I have in fact, caught them all.

[KDups]

BUT HOW COULD YOU RESIST MARKETING LIKE THIS? IT HAD MORE FMV GAMES THAN YOU COULD HANDLE!

I was more impressed with Polygon Man, Sony's hip, radical Playstation launch mascot back in '95. Poor guy, didn't make it past the first wave of games. I miss him.

[if76]

I think someone needs to release the phantom controller. It looked pretty cool

[Furious Wang]

How can you guys possibly think that better graphics are all the next generation has to offer? Because that seems to be the source of most of your complaints. More processor power means more than just better graphics, it means more characters on screen, more varieties of characters on screen, better AI, environment manipulation, realistic physics systems, larger worlds, more interaction I mean the list goes on and on.

[Deadend]

Games will keep on being the same ideas as long as those ideas keep selling. Games can be art, but art does not pay the bills, Madden does.

Katamari has been the closest thing to a innovative game in the past year, almost every other game in the past year is simply mixing up a old idea, isn't it kind of scary? Does it mean that everyone is out of ideas?

Wang, I think the fear about the graphics is that graphics will recive even more empasis and need even more processing power compared to things as they are now, and even more devlopment time. For a vague example of what I mean :

GameX uses 60% of the processing power of ConsoleX for graphics, and DevteamX spent 60% of their budget on graphics related things (artists and graphics programing) now on ConsoleX+1 GameX+1 has to have amazing detailed graphics, near photorealistic, which takes much more power, while the system has alot more.. it now needs 80% for graphics, and 90% of the money on the game was poured into the graphics.

I think there may be new ideas for games once someone proves that a new idea can make money, as it is business after all and most investors like to make safer investments.

[jeffool]

How can you guys possibly think that better graphics are all the next generation has to offer? Because that seems to be the source of most of your complaints. More processor power means more than just better graphics, it means more characters on screen, more varieties of characters on screen, better AI, environment manipulation, realistic physics systems, larger worlds, more interaction I mean the list goes on and on.
Exactly the complaint. It'll give us more of what we already have. My complaining isn't about more, and not necessarily about better. It's about different.

"My" complaining is laid in the idea that 733Mhz is plenty of processing power to make games that are vastly different from what we currently have as it is. Why can't I live out life in a sitcom world? Why can't I be a lion hunting for prey along edge of the jungle? Not because the current systems don't have three 3Ghz processors, Cell processors, or physics processors. But because games like that are too risky. The problem isn't the capabilities of the hardware, it's the willingness of publishers/developers to do something new with the hardware. That's one reason I'd like to see console manufacturers offer new hardware. Hopefully new ideas and games would result. And when it comes down to it, games are about interaction. So how we interact with games is obviously where innovation is needed. Controllers offer little interaction, and keyboard/mouse combos are only a step better.

And you say "more interaction," but how is that really happening? Grab, drop, lift, throw, shoot, run, walk, jump, duck. That's most games right there. (An oversimplification, but you get the idea. We're rarely creating more interactions with our games, just more examples of existing ones.)

/edited: for clarity.

[Borys]

105 comments about what? Fake commercial?

Nintendo really is a hate it or love it company.

[KDups]

Nintendo really is a hate it or love it company.

Eh, it's kinda been a rollercoaster of a thread. I'd say only about 1/2 of it was about Nintendo.

Interesting Sunday read though.

[Hellstorm]

Costik called Warren Spector an idiot or something there about. So +1 for Costik.
He then went out and trashed Iwata, then looking back he took back what he said and added that Iwata was for the most part correct. So -1 for Costik for jumping to conclusions and opening his mouth to get attention.
Then I went to his website and realized I and probably many of you, haven't played a single damn game he made. -1 for Costik.

Total score of Costik -1. You got a long way to go before you can even shine the shoes of the bottom of the barrel guys like Itagaki, Costik. But to his credit, I agree with him to a point and I am happy he is working on games for the N-Gage, of which probably no one will play. Have to hand it to him, he's consistant.

[BigJonno]

I'm all about killing monsters. I started out playing games about killing monsters and I'll probably still be playing games about killing monsters fifty years from now. Killing monsters is fun.

Thing is, I don't just want to kill monsters. I want interaction, story and character. To carry on the games as movies analogy, I want more games like subtitled Hong Kong movies; drama, comedy, romance and huge amounts of incredibly cool butt-kicking.

I want games to be customisable, both in an adaptive, emergent gameplay way and in an overt 'create your own stuff' way. For all the marketing BS, it seems that it's where MS is trying to go with the X360. Sure, it's probably because they look at something like Half-Life and realise that user-created content is a wonderful way to make huge amounts of money with relatively little effort, but as long as the eventual result is beneficial to me, the gamer, I don't give two tugs of a dead dog's cock about the motivations.

I also want games to look good. Anyone who can't admit that better visuals has been one of, if not the, prime motivating factor behind gaming advancement since its inception has got to take their head out of the sand before they suffocate. My first gaming experiences were on a Spectrum. I enjoy ASCII games and MUDs. I'm quite prepared to take a graphical quality hit in the name of great gameplay, but I don't see that as a reason not to push the boundaries of what games can do technically.

Innovation is overrated. It's why Nintendo's 'Revolution' is hopelessly misplaced. Until a great technological leap, comparable to going to 3D from 2D, comes along, gaming is all about evolution. We're not going to see loads of bold new genres as there aren't any, at least there aren't any that will see widespread acceptance, even among the gaming hardcore. Look at the DS. While some cry 'revolutionary,' the rest shout 'gimmicky.' Look at how much joypad design has homogenised recently. It's not because people are running out of ideas, it's that joypad design has pretty much reached it's pinnacle. Any great change from the current designs is just going to be ludicrous and impractical, look at the GC's controller and it's weird button layout.

Gaming doesn't need anything wildly different from what it has now, it just needs better. I look at the games that I have enjoyed this generation, consider their limitations and then marvel at what will be possible with the new round of consoles. The next-gen game that has me most excited so far is Oblivion, a fourth-generation sequel. I'm expecting the basic game to be pretty much like the last three, an open-ended fantasy RPG, but improved in every way. It's one step closer to the RPG Holy Grail of an ever-lasting adventure in a world that seems completely real. Of course, there won't be a need for any more fantasy RPGs at that point, but I won't really want to play anything else, either.

A last note on the 'inhale' thing. If you are going to pay not one, but two design companies for a design plus a load of arty-farty designer BS, you're going to squeeze every bit of usefullness out of that BS. You think they came back to MS with a design and said 'We think this looks pretty cool'?

[Savok]

Sure I was around, but I don’t count those people as a market and I doubt Nintendo does either.

But if you notice, it certainly did change the look of the new Zelda game, and got Wind Waker 2 vanished even after it was announced.

They either count or they don't.

For those craving something new, one of the last gods of PC gaming, Will Wright, is working on something called Spore....

[WileE.Coyte]

I would love to see some of the gaming collection's of some of these people jumping on the inovation bandwagon. The person who was saying "I want to be a lion or what not, and raise cub's", do you own A Dog's Life for PS2 or Mosquito, or are you just another hypocrite. I'm not trying to say this in a mean way, but honestly, have you played Mister Bones for the Saturn. Do you go out of your way to actually buy and find inovative and different games , or do you just fuel the mainstream like most gamers. Inovative games are out there. I'm more into inovative story's myself. Some of my favorites are Beyond Good & Evil, who can beat Jamican Rhino's, Legacy Of Kain, totally different take on Vampire's, and my all time favorite, Panzer Dragoon, I want to slap every Xbox owner who does'nt own Orta because I'll probally never get a sequal. Inovation just does'nt sell, wheather it's story or gameplay. Once and a while something will take off but that's how it work's in gameing. From the 2600 till now. We saw all these shooter clones,platforming clones, fighting clones, FPS clones , and now GTA clones, and we just have to wait for the next big thing.

[kokyunage]

Wow, haven't seen a 100+ post count thread around here in a while. Good job OSX :-) It's been a fun read.

[Savok]

As an LoK fanboy, you can't really put LoK's gameplay on a pedestal beyond the first Soul Reaver as anything special. Granted things picked up again in Defiance, it just wasn't polished enough.

And why they didn't use the fantastic voice session from the outtakes for that bit in the pit I'll never know. Instead going for something nearly devoid of emotion.

[WileE.Coyte]

As an LoK fanboy, you can't really put LoK's gameplay on a pedestal beyond the first Soul Reaver as anything special. Granted things picked up again in Defiance, it just wasn't polished enough.

And why they didn't use the fantastic voice session from the outtakes for that bit in the pit I'll never know. Instead going for something nearly devoid of emotion.

Were you refering to me? I agree but, I'm talking about Storywise, I love video game story's, LOK is more like a movie that I somewhat control. The story and cinematic's make the game, for me,that's not enough for most people. Some people are all about gameplay. LOK has one of the best story's and talented voice acting in any videogame.

[Heretic Machine]

I'm a big believer in the idea that a game needs excellent game play to be anything special. Stories don't cut it. If I wanted a great story, I could turn to many other sources dedicated to telling a story, all of which would probably be better. Then there are cinematics... yergh... As far as I'm concerned, "cinematics" ruined the past two generations of J-RPG.

[Savok]

Sometimes the best way to tell a story is via interaction. LoK for instance just wouldn't work any other way. Closest thing that could work is a comic, but then you lose the golden voice acting of Michael Bell (Raziel) and Simon Templeman (Kain) which quite simply is half the experience.

Sometimes the world itself tells the story, like in Morrowind, simply existing there is your own story set against an awesome, deep backstory.

[ÜberJumper]

This thread is so silly!

ps. Jacktion... I wholeheartedly agree that Zombie Nazi's would be AWESOME (http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showpost.php?p=27783&postcount=10).

[[HATE]MyLife]

Sega had the Sega CD, then there was the Jaguar... I think even the Saturn came before the Playstation, but I could be wrong.

EDIT: Oh, and I completly forgot the CD-I. And ya, they weren't the second... They were like the fourth or fifth.

Sorry to jump in so late, but I couldn't resist pointing out my beloved Turbo-Grafx 16 CD system. I went so far as to sell my entire NES collection in order to buy one. That was 1989 baby.

Sega CD was late to market and lame in comparison.

[Achilles]

They either count or they don't. True, I don’t think anyone counts them. But Zelda:WW had a negative reaction when it came out as well as just on the net. It sold less than a million in the US where OOT had sold over 3. That’s what affected the look of the new Zelda and the cancellation of Wind Waker 2. It wasn’t the internet trolls.