PS3 shipments below forecast

[Jukey]

From the article (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15854413/)...
Research indicated that Sony's initial unit numbers for its launch weekend in North America were in the range of 125,000 to 175,000, including some of the 15,000 units SNE was sending to retailers for interactive kiosks

So much for the promises of 400,000 units at launch!

Editor's Note: Looks like Evil's source was right.

[Adam Blue]

Like I said, this should have been an online only thing. Rushes and lines for 125,000 units? What a fucking joke.

[TheBrainKills]

"Sony spokesman Dave Karraker Wednesday reiterated Sony's goal of shipping 1 million PS3s to the United States, and 2 billion globally, by year end."

2 Billion Doh

[Sony King]

Because every other company has kept up with their promises right? :rolleyes: Typical how people try to find something bad to say about SOny, but hey I guess that's how people are when your at top, they just try and try to bring you down, sad really :(

[Philly Rampage]

Because every other company has kept up with their promises right? :rolleyes: Typical how people try to find something bad to say about SOny, but hey I guess that's how people are when your at top, they just try and try to bring you down, sad really :(

They rag on Microsoft when they did that too. Are they not supposed to bring it up?

[resikel]

One of my brother-in-law was shopping at a newly open BestBuy in L.A. today when he stumble on a second shipment of PS3 there; 30 PS3 came in, of which he bought one.

[Codicier]

Because every other company has kept up with their promises right? :rolleyes: Typical how people try to find something bad to say about SOny, but hey I guess that's how people are when your at top, they just try and try to bring you down, sad really :(

Hmm new guy with the tag Sony King. I wonder if he'll become a productive board member... :rolleyes:

Or maybe he'll be the opposite of productive member....what was that word again? Started with a t and ended with a roll....

[31 Flavas]

Oh so this is just an isolated incident, "Sony King", right?

It has nothing to do with the multitude of other promises Sony has broken, right? Like... SPRING 2006, or geez, WORLD WIDE LAUNCH on Nov 17? Or what, built in standard Wifi and 2 port Gigabit ethernet switch, 2 HDMI connections, 7 controller connections...

[OUX]

Because every other company has kept up with their promises right? :rolleyes: Typical how people try to find something bad to say about SOny, but hey I guess that's how people are when your at top, they just try and try to bring you down, sad really :(


BWA HA HA! Look at his name!

[Sony King]

They rag on Microsoft when they did that too. Are they not supposed to bring it up?
I am new here so I don't know about what happened here with MS, but from the other forums, no one cared whether MS met up with their numbers. I expect this though, Sony is in the lime light right now, even though the fanboys hate to admit they have their eyes on Sony. They are there to watch Sony's every step, hoping that they might make a misstep.

[BlackPete]

I am new here so I don't know about what happened here with MS, but from the other forums, no one cared whether MS met up with their numbers. I expect this though, Sony is in the lime light right now, even though the fanboys hate to admit they have their eyes on Sony. They are there to watch Sony's every step, hoping that they might make a misstep.

You're right, you are new here :D

You missed out on all the fun and games around here during the 360 shortage last xmas.

[31 Flavas]

You'll quickly find that this place is equal-oppertunity bashing.

Sony's been fucking up a whole lot though... so they're going to get a boat load of bashing.

[Orosco]

Another botched Sony launch. Did they learn after the PS2? Nope. Will the PS4 have a shitty, low unit launch? You bet.

And Sony King? Jeez, I had seen some bad usernames, but this one seems pretty "special". With a name like that, Welcome to Hell.

[Sony King]

Oh so this is just an isolated incident, "Sony King", right?

It has nothing to do with the multitude of other promises Sony has broken, right? Like... SPRING 2006, or geez, WORLD WIDE LAUNCH on Nov 17? Or what, built in standard Wifi and 2 port Gigabit ethernet switch, 2 HDMI connections, 7 controller connections...
We will make worlds so beautiful that it will fade the line in between reality and gaming. We are going to reach 1 billion people. Sound funny to you?

BWA HA HA! Look at his name!
OMGZ ROFLCOPTOR

[bapenguin]

125,000 is pitiful. And they tried to rag on Microsoft for only having 350,000 on launch day.

[Philly Rampage]

I am new here so I don't know about what happened here with MS, but from the other forums, no one cared whether MS met up with their numbers. I expect this though, Sony is in the lime light right now, even though the fanboys hate to admit they have their eyes on Sony. They are there to watch Sony's every step, hoping that they might make a misstep.

I don't know what forum you go to, but even if you glance at any news site or paper, you can tell that people care about it last year. Hardcore kinda care.

O, Sony already has a bunch misstep (I'm sure other people would gladly point what they are) but not providing enough units for launch won't matter one bit in the long run. Although, if the 360 hits 10 million by this year, I might change my statement on that.

[Codicier]

I think Eran Hawke just found a new best friend. :p

[Sony King]

Another botched Sony launch. Did they learn after the PS2? Nope. Will the PS4 have a shitty, low unit launch? You bet.

And Sony King? Jeez, I had seen some bad usernames, but this one seems pretty "special". With a name like that, Welcome to Hell.
Did MS learn how NOT to lose money after losing 4-5 billion dollars on the Xbox 1? Nope, look at how much they are losing on the 360, even they are sticker shocked.

Did Nintendo learn from N64 and GC that people are tired of kiddy crap? No, my proof, Wii, just the name alone.

And don't get my name twisted, yes I am a fan of Sony, but I am not a "blind fanboy". I own a 360 and I play it on a regular basis, I own a PS3, and I love it. Soon I will buy a Wii.

[Rook34]

Did MS learn how NOT to lose money after losing 4-5 billion dollars on the Xbox 1? Nope, look at how much they are losing on the 360, even they are sticker shocked.

Did Nintendo learn from N64 and GC that people are tired of kiddy crap? No, my proof, Wii, just the name alone.

And don't get my name twisted, yes I am a fan of Sony, but I am not a "blind fanboy". I own a 360 and I play it on a regular basis, I own a PS3, and I love it. Soon I will buy a Wii.


You are aware how much MORE sony is losing on their PS3, right?

Oh and as *cough* you *cough* should know judging by yours, a name means nothing in regards to kiddy crap or not.

[Sony King]

You are aware how much MORE sony is losing on their PS3, right?

Oh and as *cough* you *cough* should know judging by yours, a name means nothing in regards to kiddy crap or not.
Yes I am aware, and I also am aware that it is no where near 6-7 billion (total amount of money MS has lost on the Xbox franchise).

[Paranoia]

We will make worlds so beautiful that it will fade the line in between reality and gaming. We are going to reach 1 billion people. Sound funny to you?


Did you know what that "reach 1 billion people" comment meant, Mr.Sony is King ?

[Sony King]

Did you know what that "reach 1 billion people" comment meant, Mr.Sony is King ?
First of all it is Sony King, not Sony is King.

And that is a very vague question, pretty smart on MS behalf (not really)

Reporter (turns out you guys didn't meet your 1 billion mark)

MS (why we meant that 1 billion people would have seen a picture of the 360)

Reporter (.....)

MS ( :D )

[Mister Pie]

Didn't some news just come out recently staying that due to some new fabrication methods, MS is now making money for each 360 sold? If so, that's pretty significant.

[Jack B]

Because every other company has kept up with their promises right? :rolleyes: Typical how people try to find something bad to say about SOny, but hey I guess that's how people are when your at top, they just try and try to bring you down, sad really :(

With a name like Sony King, my guess is you would have tossed a few grenades Microsoft's way last November, but since you just joined EvAv today, you missed all the fun. Bad timing I suppose.

[Paranoia]

First of all it is Sony King, not Sony is King.

And that is a very vague question, pretty smart on MS behalf (not really)

Reporter (turns out you guys didn't meet your 1 billion mark)

MS (why we meant that 1 billion people would have seen a picture of the 360)

Reporter (.....)

MS ( :D )

No different from:

Reporter (Was that PS3 Killzone realtime?)
Sony (Yes)
Reporter (Really?)
Sony (Well, right now it runs at 5 fps, but I can assure you its real time)
Reporter (....)
Sony ( :D )

[Jack B]

Did MS learn how NOT to lose money after losing 4-5 billion dollars on the Xbox 1? Nope, look at how much they are losing on the 360, even they are sticker shocked.

Did Nintendo learn from N64 and GC that people are tired of kiddy crap? No, my proof, Wii, just the name alone.

And don't get my name twisted, yes I am a fan of Sony, but I am not a "blind fanboy". I own a 360 and I play it on a regular basis, I own a PS3, and I love it. Soon I will buy a Wii.

I knew Mike Jones would come back eventually. :D

Oh, good. You own a 360. What's your 360 gamertag? You can enter it in your sig or your profile. Join the fun.

[Sony King]

With a name like Sony King, my guess is you would have tossed a few grenades Microsoft's way last November, but since you just joined EvAv today, you missed all the fun. Bad timing I suppose.

I like Sony man, I like their electronics, they have proven their worth to me. I am not a fanboy though. I own 360 as well, and yes I used to play it everyday (before I got my PS3). So don't confuse me for a fanboy.
No different from:

Reporter (Was that PS3 Killzone realtime?)
Sony (Yes)
Reporter (Really?)
Sony (Well, right now it runs at 5 fps, but I can assure you its real time)
Reporter (....)
Sony ( :D )
But it is still real time now isn't it? It would still be playable. Yes it would be choppy like hell, but it would still be real time. Sony never said it was going to run at 60 FPS now. So you are trying to compare a totally different case, but thanks for trying :)

[NACIONAL]

Sony King?.... well that is just absurd!, prepare your sight ... a lot of shit is going to fly by...

[Sony King]

I knew Mike Jones would come back eventually. :D

Oh, good. You own a 360. What's your 360 gamertag? You can enter it in your sig or your profile. Join the fun. What is it?
Who the hell is Mike Jones?


And my gamer tag is King Cobra Xe, for all you who think I am a fanboy there is my proof.

[Jack B]

Sony King?.... well that is just absurd!, prepare your sight ... a lot of shit is going to fly by...

It's like a bullseye. I think I'll rename myself Mr. Microsoft or Nintendo God, that's subtle.

[NACIONAL]

But it is still real time now isn't it? It would still be playable. Yes it would be choppy like hell, but it would still be real time. Sony never said it was going to run at 60 FPS now. So you are trying to compare a totally different case, but thanks for trying :)

Your idea of "Real Time" amuses me!!!!

[gman]

5 FPS playable.. Come on mate be serious. If Half Life 2 or Gears of War ran at 5FPS the reviewers and consumers would have a field day.

Sony F**ked up the Ps3 launch.

They are an arrogant company and always have been.

Yes they used to make decent TV's but even they have stopped using their own tubes in favor of Philips tubes and LCD componants.

If Ken K hadn't been such a total ass in his comments at E3 in 04, 05 and this year this flaming wouldn't be an issue. However the arrogance that they will sell BILLIONS and the consumer will pay $600+ for a games machine is folly.

The PS3 won't ever become mass market until it drops to sub $299 and then only really mass market when it hits $199 the known impulse price point.

The launch titles are mediocre (so where the Wii's and the 360's) and the next wave isn't much better.

The hardware is actually worse then the 360 ( I work in the game industry so I have first hand knowledge) and the overall architecture is flawed.

Say what you want about Nintendo and MS but at least they have delivered on their hardware promises..

[Jack B]

Who the hell is Mike Jones?


And my gamer tag is King Cobra Xe, for all you who think I am a fanboy there is my proof.

That's not proof. It's a gamertag. And it certainly doesn't prove you are or are not a fanboy. Your posts over time will speak volumes.

All, I can say is, you're in for a lot of fun around here with a name like Sony King. It's like the Johnny Cash song, "Boy Named Sue". You're starting off on the wrong foot and will have to prove yourself to be objective for quite a while.

I doubt anyone on EvAv is going to assume you aren't a Sony fanboy without you proving otherwise. Good luck.

[Jack B]

I own 360 as well, and yes I used to play it everyday (before I got my PS3). So don't confuse me for a fanboy.

What was the last game you purchased on the 360 and when did you play it last?

[Sony King]

5 FPS playable.. Come on mate be serious. If Half Life 2 or Gears of War ran at 5FPS the reviewers and consumers would have a field day.

Sony F**ked up the Ps3 launch.

They are an arrogant company and always have been.

Yes they used to make decent TV's but even they have stopped using their own tubes in favor of Philips tubes and LCD componants.

If Ken K hadn't been such a total ass in his comments at E3 in 04, 05 and this year this flaming wouldn't be an issue. However the arrogance that they will sell BILLIONS and the consumer will pay $600+ for a games machine is folly.

The PS3 won't ever become mass market until it drops to sub $299 and then only really mass market when it hits $199 the known impulse price point.

The launch titles are mediocre (so where the Wii's and the 360's) and the next wave isn't much better.

The hardware is actually worse then the 360 ( I work in the game industry so I have first hand knowledge) and the overall architecture is flawed.

Say what you want about Nintendo and MS but at least they have delivered on their hardware promises..
Nintendo KNEW not to make any promises, with a system no that much more powerful then an Xbox 1 how can you expect them to brag?

MS touted their console as the Jesus to gaming. Did you ever hear Peter Moore's little comment about the launch games, saying that God himself would have picked them out?


And about the PS3 hardware, I would like to know WHAT company you work for, because as far as I know the PS3 has a higher peak point of performance then the 360. And the architecture is "NEW" not flawed.


And about the 5 FPS, can you show me were I said it would be a great game at 5FPS? I said that it would be choppy, but it would still be REAL TIME. AS in you know, the machine is pumping it out. You know it doesn't have to be at 30 FPS to be classified as "real time".


What was the last game you purchased on the 360 and when did you play it last?
COD3, and not to long ago

[Rook34]

Yes I am aware, and I also am aware that it is no where near 6-7 billion (total amount of money MS has lost on the Xbox franchise).

Better be careful about the numbers you throw around here or someone might ask for proof...

That was actually me asking for proof. Soooo...where is it?

[Dag-Sabot]

Sony King?.... well that is just absurd!, prepare your sight ... a lot of shit is going to fly by... Heavy lies the crown.. and what not. The fact that people still defend SONY as a source "Quality" electronics, make me want to laugh but i just get sad instead, because i feel bad for them.

[NACIONAL]

And about the PS3 hardware, I would like to know WHAT company you work for, because as far as I know the PS3 has a higher peak point of performance then the 360. And the architecture is "NEW" not flawed.

You should make some research... overall the developers are saying: that in terms of performance, 360 and PS3 are almost identical, giving the PS3 a slight advantage in the long run... but remember that advantage blurs when the 360 is quite better to program for....

[Sony King]

Better be careful about the numbers you throw around here or someone might ask for proof...

That was actually me asking for proof. Soooo...where is it?
http://www.videogamesblogger.com/2006/10/13/microsoft-lost-126-billion-launching-the-xbox-360.htm

http://theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=26497

add them together you get about -5 to-6 billion dollars

You should make some research... overall the developers are saying that, in terms of performance, 360 and PS3 are almost identical, giving the PS3 a sligth advantage in the long run... but remember that advantage blurs when the 360 is quite better to program for....
And it will become visible once again when the 360 reaches its limits.

[Jack B]

COD3, and not to long ago

Yeah, I'd say tonight click here (http://live.xbox.com/en-US/profile/profile.aspx?GamerTag=King+Cobra+Xe) would be not too long ago... :D

Just above you said, you "used" to play the 360. Get your story straight. I should ease up though, because I just looked at your profile and you were born in 1989. Yikes. You're the two years younger than my daughter.

[Sony King]

Yeah, I'd say tonight click here (http://live.xbox.com/en-US/profile/profile.aspx?GamerTag=King+Cobra+Xe) would be not too long ago... :D
So you don't believe me?

[Paranoia]

And about the 5 FPS, can you show me were I said it would be a great game at 5FPS?

Can you show us PS3 Killzone running in REAL TIME at 5fps?

[Sony King]

Can you show us PS3 Killzone running in REAL TIME at 5fps?
Can you show me were I said Killzone was real time?

[Jack B]

So you don't believe me?

You said, you "used" to play the 360 before you got your PS3. I said, get your story straight.

[Disgustipated]

I guess Bill Gates was right when he mentioned rounding errors.

[Paranoia]

Can you show me were I said Killzone was real time?

Sure.


And about the 5 FPS, can you show me were I said it would be a great game at 5FPS? I said that it would be choppy, but it would still be REAL TIME. AS in you know, the machine is pumping it out. You know it doesn't have to be at 30 FPS to be classified as "real time".


:D

[Sony King]

You said, you "used" to play the 360. I said, get your story straight.
Used is past tense is it not? And I think I can safely say that I am not playing my 360 right now. So ether way, I am still right, so hah! :p

[Jack B]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sony King
Can you show me were I said Killzone was real time?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paranoia
Sure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sony King
And about the 5 FPS, can you show me were I said it would be a great game at 5FPS? I said that it would be choppy, but it would still be REAL TIME. AS in you know, the machine is pumping it out. You know it doesn't have to be at 30 FPS to be classified as "real time".


OK, good start. That's the 2nd time in this thread you goofed on your story.

[Rook34]

http://www.videogamesblogger.com/2006/10/13/microsoft-lost-126-billion-launching-the-xbox-360.htm

http://theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=26497

add them together you get about -5 to-6 billion dollars


And it will become visible once again when the 360 reaches its limits.

Fair enough.

I think things will turn around for them though. I am quite pleased with my 360 and even my wife is, which is..unheard of. She's as much a gamer as my goldfish is normally.

[Sony King]

Sure.



:D
Way to take things out of content. I was telling another member that whether it was running at 30 FPS or at 5 FPS it would still be real time, Never did I say, "well man your stupid because the trailer at E3 WAS real time and it ran at 30 FPS" see the difference?

Fair enough.

I think things will turn around for them though. I am quite pleased with my 360 and even my wife is, which is..unheard of. She's as much a gamer as my goldfish is normally.
I used to have pet goldfish, but they died :(

[Jack B]

Used is past tense is it not? And I think I can safely say that I am not playing my 360 right now. So ether way, I am still right, so hah! :p

You wanted us to believe something that wasn't true and you know it. "I used to play my 360 before I got my PS3" doesn't mean you "used" to play it, but that was 10 minutes ago.

[31 Flavas]

We will make worlds so beautiful that it will fade the line in between reality and gaming. We are going to reach 1 billion people. Sound funny to you?Peter More, right? That guy is a douche. We've already trashed him. If you want to heckle a MS fanboy, Evil Avatar is your guy. Says Microsoft is going to have 10 million 360's sold by year end. But we all know that's a crock of shit.

You want me on the defensive? Start bringing up Nintendo quotes.

Edit: Yea... 360 not 460....

[Captain Awesome]

125,000 is pitiful. And they tried to rag on Microsoft for only having 350,000 on launch day.

I was about to say. I'd like to know the percentage of those actually being used compared to the ones on ebay ;)

[Sony King]

You wanted us to believe something that wasn't true and you know it.
Oh yeah, you caught on to me, I totally wanted you guys to think that I was a total fanboy because I only played my PS3. I mean after all you are supposed to treat your posts on the intertron like the bible. Dam it, and I would have gotten away with it if it weren't for you medaling kids :mad:

You wanted us to believe something that wasn't true and you know it. "I used to play my 360 before I got my PS3" doesn't mean you "used" to play it, but that was 10 minutes ago.
Dude you do know that when you go on xbox.com you are considered to be "signed on". Just refresh your friends list and if anyone is looking at your profile it will say you were on 1 minute ago.

[31 Flavas]

Yes I am aware, and I also am aware that it is no where near 6-7 billion (total amount of money MS has lost on the Xbox franchise).Wow... 17 posts already. Personally I hope you stick around. You'll have a lot of fun here, even if you take a lot of flack for defending Sony.

Edit: Yea... You'll not You've...

[NACIONAL]

And it will become visible once again when the 360 reaches its limits.

Which will also be the limits for the PS3..... god damnit!.. are you listening to me?????...

The PS3 was relased 1 year after the X360, but that doesn't mean that the hardware specification is 1 year newer... you know?, the only reason for the delay is Blu-Ray.....

[Paranoia]

125,000 is pitiful. And they tried to rag on Microsoft for only having 350,000 on launch day.

Don't forget the rag on the 2 SKUs and "TRUE HD" support. :D

[KamaItachi]

Oh my, this thread will keep me happy for aaaaaaaages.

[Rook34]

Wow... 17 posts already. Personally I hope you stick around. You've have a lot of fun here, even if you take a lot of flack for defending Sony.

Yeah, I have a feeling the majority of his posts will all be defending himself.

Good luck to you, kid.

[Sony King]

Which will also be the limits for the PS3..... god damnit!.. are you listening to me?????...

The PS3 was relased 1 year after the X360, but that doesn't mean that the hardware specification is 1 year newer... you know?, the only reason for the delay is Blu-Ray.....
Blu-ray diode to be exact, and you really can't say any of this since first of all, you haven't worked with the PS3. (expecting someone to randomly post "I work with it and it sucks") You act as if I were a noob at these things, trust me, I know my fair share when it comes to this, I know the good and bad of Sony and the PS3, just like I do for the Wii and 360.

Yeah, I have a feeling the majority of his posts will all be defending himself.

Good luck to you, kid.
Kid? Um thanks, I guess....

[Jack B]

Originally Posted by Sony King
We will make worlds so beautiful that it will fade the line in between reality and gaming. We are going to reach 1 billion people. Sound funny to you?

You're late to the party. We beat the crap out of this comment long ago. And for your information "reach" is a marketing term. It's not the same as "sell 360's to 1 billion people".

Here is the definition of "marketing reach (http://searchwebservices.techtarget.com/sDefinition/0,,sid26_gci214417,00.html)".

"In Internet marketing, reach is how many different people visit a Web site to see an ad and also what percentage of these people fall into the audience to which an ad is targeted."

It has to do with getting ads in front of people who could buy your product. China alone has 1 billion people. USA has 300 million. Europe 600 million. India 1 billion, Australia, South Africa etc.

He never said, "sell" he said "reach". They will "reach" 1 billion people.

[NACIONAL]

Oh my, this thread will keep me happy for aaaaaaaages.

tell me about it!... its 00:15 in here... I have to work tomorrow really early (I have to be up and ready at 5:00 am)... please Sony King, have some compassion!

[Banacek]

The average IQ of EA members has really dropped in the past few weeks. Where did these people come from?

[DudeWheresMyXbox]

Gotta love how people like "Sony King" continue to mangle an otherwise-uninteresting Microsoft claim from E3 2005 of trying to help grow the industry to include a billion gamers.

Given that you're still in grade school, Sony King, it might help if I express this with a multiple choice question. ;)

Which of the following claims did not appear on a public trade show presentation slide in the past two years?

1. "100% backwards compatible" (PlayStation 3)
2. "Spring 2006" (PlayStation 3)
3. "Worldwide launch" (PlayStation 3)
4. "We will sell 1 billion consoles" (Xbox 360)

[NACIONAL]

Blu-ray diode to be exact, and you really can't say any of this since first of all, you haven't worked with the PS3. (expecting someone to randomly post "I work with it and it sucks") You act as if I were a noob at these things, trust me, I know my fair share when it comes to this, I know the good and bad of Sony and the PS3, just like I do for the Wii and 360.

I'm a developer you know????... I know what I'm talking about, don't let my horrid grammar stand in the way of the truth! :D

You know what?, I'm done with this.. I have to sleep.

[rein]

Damn guys, I don't want to be the one taking up for Sony King but leave him/her alone. I don't see you giving PXG360 that kind of shit just because he has 360 in his name. Besides Jack you said it yourself, he is like your daughters age. He isn't going to stand a chance going toe-to-toe with you.

As far as Sony's shipped numbers. Really pitiful, but I got mine. :D

[Talltale]

>Pulls up his chair and popcorn.<

[Sony King]

tell me about it!... its 00:15 in here... I have to work tomorrow really early (I have to be up and ready at 5:00 am)... please Sony King, have some compassion!
Compassion to what?

Gotta love how people like "Sony King" continue to mangle an otherwise-uninteresting Microsoft claim from E3 2005 of trying to help grow the industry to include a billion gamers.

Given that you're still in grade school, Sony King, it might help if I express this with a multiple choice question. ;)

Which of the following claims did not appear on a public trade show presentation slide in the past two years?

1. "100% backwards compatible" (PlayStation 3)
2. "Spring 2006" (PlayStation 3)
3. "Worldwide launch" (PlayStation 3)
4. "We will sell 1 billion consoles" (Xbox 360)


Hahah look at me I am cool because I think I'm better then someone in high school :)

I can't belive an Xbox fan of all fans would rag on Sony on the BC issue. Hey only 200 of them have issues, at least its only 200 out of 8000 that have issues, can you bring up the number of Xbox1 games that the 360 can play? Please do so I want to see how many places are taken by Barbie games :)

[Rook34]

It's funny how the there's no place better than the internet where one can find examples of the laws of nature in action. The strong stay and the weak get eaten.

[Sony King]

Damn guys, I don't want to be the one taking up for Sony King but leave him/her alone. I don't see you giving PXG360 that kind of shit just because he has 360 in his name. Besides Jack you said it yourself, he is like your daughters age. He isn't going to stand a chance going toe-to-toe with you.

As far as Sony's shipped numbers. Really pitiful, but I got mine. :D
PXG 360 is one of my best friends, I met him on wii60. Seriously next time he gets on tell him his good ole freind Sony King has gotten into another brawl lol. Trust me though I can take up my own, I don;t care how old they are, the older the faster they fall.

>Pulls up his chair and popcorn.<
Can I have some plzz?

[Paranoia]

Gotta love how people like "Sony King" continue to mangle an otherwise-uninteresting Microsoft claim from E3 2005 of trying to help grow the industry to include a billion gamers.

Given that you're still in grade school, Sony King, it might help if I express this with a multiple choice question. ;)

Which of the following claims did not appear on a public trade show presentation slide in the past two years?

1. "100% backwards compatible" (PlayStation 3)
2. "Spring 2006" (PlayStation 3)
3. "Worldwide launch" (PlayStation 3)
4. "We will sell 1 billion consoles" (Xbox 360)

Additions:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Wzmf0ChL24

[Disgustipated]

Wow, I hope I wasn't that fucking stupid when I was in high school

Oh, wait.

[Rook34]

Can I have some plzz?

NO! NO SOUP FOR YOU! :D

[31 Flavas]

Damn guys, I don't want to be the one taking up for Sony King but leave him/her alone. I don't see you giving PXG360 that kind of shit just because he has 360 in his name.Forgive me, if I'm already supposed to know PXG360, sorry I don't.

As far as I can tell though, "Sony King" is getting trashed here because he's being a douch and accusing of not bashing Microsoft.... WE BASH FUCKING MICROSOFT HERE.

If PXG360 started an account here and crapped up a thread up accusing us of not bashing Sony ... ... He'd get the same shit thrown at him.

[Sony King]

Wow, I hope I wasn't that fucking stupid when I was in high school

Oh, wait.
Tell me about your life story plz


NO! NO SOUP FOR YOU! :D

Awww, :(

Forgive me, if I'm already supposed to know PXG360, sorry I don't.

As far as I can tell though, "Sony King" is getting trashed here because he's being a douch and accusing of not bashing Microsoft.... WE BASH FUCKING MICROSOFT HERE.

If PXG360 started an account here and crapped up a thread up accusing us of not bashing Sony ... ... He'd get the same shit thrown at him.
So I assume that you guys like throwing shit, does this mean that you guys are monkeys?

[Disgustipated]

Tell me about your life story plz




Awww, :(


So I assume that you guys like throwing shit, does this mean that you guys are monkeys?

They like to eat it more. People around here are fucked.

[Jack B]

Damn guys, I don't want to be the one taking up for Sony King but leave him/her alone. I don't see you giving PXG360 that kind of shit just because he has 360 in his name. Besides Jack you said it yourself, he is like your daughters age. He isn't going to stand a chance going toe-to-toe with you.

As far as Sony's shipped numbers. Really pitiful, but I got mine. :D

Thanks Rein. You're right. The name set me off... He's actually pretty good though for 17 years old. :)

He'd have been fine if he just hadn't called himself Sony King. PXG360 is very mild in comparision. We have about 8,000 members, that may be the number one "most likely to be a fanboy name" winner.

Sony King is hilarious. Burger King would have been better.... Like I said, massive bullseye.

[TheDancinMan]

Now, in an attempt to get up onto, oh, let's say, the topic at hand...

Yeah, Sony's launch numbers are terrible. 400,000 was going to be bad, 200-250,000 was going to be awful, but 125-175,000? Pathetic. There's no going around this one, if these numbers are true. It doesn't matter who is launching a system here, I mean, 125-175,000? Damn...


But, since I have to mention the other topic...

Sony King, doesn't matter who you're backing, what your user name is, what games you bought and when you played them. This is a thread on the dissapointing PS3 launch, not the dissappointing 360 launch. Remember, you only get one first impression.

Don't start a crusade unless you're willing to get crucified.

[michaelwhite]

Did someone say "troll"?

[SiggieMAN]

Blu-ray diode to be exact, and you really can't say any of this since first of all, you haven't worked with the PS3. (expecting someone to randomly post "I work with it and it sucks")


I work with it and it sucks


:rolleyes:

[Sony King]

Did someone say "troll"?
You did right now...

I work with it and it sucks


:rolleyes:
OMGZ Really?

[tombofsoldier]

I smell Mike Jones 2.0. Hey Sony King, shills usually get banned here.

Regardless I'm not really surprised by all of this. Launch #s are usually lower than projected, so how is this any different? Did anyone really expect "its like plugging into the Matrix" Sony to deliver better than MS?

[Sony King]

I smell Mike Jones 2.0. Hey Sony King, shills usually get banned here.

Regardless I'm not really surprised by all of this. Launch #s are usually lower than projected, so how is this any different? Did anyone really expect "its like plugging into the Matrix" Sony to deliver better than MS?
Um, I am not Mike Jones, is he a resident Sony fan?

[Disgustipated]

Did someone say "troll"?

No, I didn't call for you, get back in your fucking corner.

[Zeal]

Um, I am not Mike Jones, is he a resident Sony fan?
Names like that get you shot around this side of town...

My advice...wear some green.

::throws down Microsoft gang logo with hands::

[Dag Nasty Evil]

Um, I am not Mike Jones, is he a resident Sony fan?

Hahaha, it's like Mike Jones fucked Kaz Hurai and had forum troll!

[gman]

Nintendo KNEW not to make any promises, with a system no that much more powerful then an Xbox 1 how can you expect them to brag?

MS touted their console as the Jesus to gaming. Did you ever hear Peter Moore's little comment about the launch games, saying that God himself would have picked them out?


And about the PS3 hardware, I would like to know WHAT company you work for, because as far as I know the PS3 has a higher peak point of performance then the 360. And the architecture is "NEW" not flawed.


And about the 5 FPS, can you show me were I said it would be a great game at 5FPS? I said that it would be choppy, but it would still be REAL TIME. AS in you know, the machine is pumping it out. You know it doesn't have to be at 30 FPS to be classified as "real time".



COD3, and not to long ago
Nintendo KNEW not to make any promises, with a system no that much more powerful then an Xbox 1 how can you expect them to brag?

I expect them not to brag and they didn't. But they did deliver an innovative gaming platform and controller, to which Sony ripped the concept..

MS touted their console as the Jesus to gaming. Did you ever hear Peter Moore's little comment about the launch games, saying that God himself would have picked them out?

And maybe God himself would have picked them out.. I guess you may also believe John Lennon when he said that the Beatles where also bigger than Jesus.. Ah well

And about the PS3 hardware, I would like to know WHAT company you work for, because as far as I know the PS3 has a higher peak point of performance then the 360. And the architecture is "NEW" not flawed.

I work for one of the top 3 shall we say (to avoid flaming). We have a LOT of PS3 and 360 dev units. The PS3 may have a "temporary higher peak performance" however it has a much LOWER memory limit and texture memory limit, and globally it's general operating power it lower than a 360. It also has a few issues regarding the way you write to the cell processors via the GPU and HDD. This is why you get games like Tony Hawk running smoothly on the 360 and not on the PS3.

I have no doubt that in two or three years in the 5 or 6 generation of titles the PS3 will come into it's own. However the 360 is still a more powerful price of kit and is easier to work with.

What you will find in the next 2-3 years in publishers will port the 360 code to the PS3 and release.. It will be substandard, the FPS will be slower and in most cases the texture resolution will be lower. Just look at the great white hope of "Dark Kingdoms" and "Genji" so much was written about those titles as a launch title and they just don't deliver.


And about the 5 FPS, can you show me were I said it would be a great game at 5FPS? I said that it would be choppy, but it would still be REAL TIME. AS in you know, the machine is pumping it out. You know it doesn't have to be at 30 FPS to be classified as "real time".

Yeah on this point you're really biting yourself. It may be choppy but it runs in real time.. at 5FPS it's not playable nor would any publisher with a sane mind release it..

[Shodan2020]

Because every other company has kept up with their promises right? :rolleyes: Typical how people try to find something bad to say about SOny, but hey I guess that's how people are when your at top, they just try and try to bring you down, sad really :(

Hey fanboy, do us all a favor and eat a dick so we don't have to hear pro-Sony mewlings as Sony screws up yet again with the PS3.

[SuperMonkeyFighter2]

The bottom line was pointed out several times already ... this launch was an embarresment. What will it be remembered for?

Say all you want about how much money MS lost on their consoles, or how much you don't care for the name Wii ... it does not change the fact that this has been a DISMAL launch thus far.

So, go on and point out other console's shortcomings .... like how MS under delivered on backward compatibility, or how underpowered the Wii is ... while you're at it toss in the failure of Sega's 32X and how the Atari Jaguar wasn't really a 64bit system. Doesn't alter this launch one bit.

[rein]

Hey fanboy, do us all a favor and eat a dick so we don't have to hear pro-Sony mewlings as Sony screws up yet again with the PS3.

Shodan, thanks for contributing. I'm not sure what we would have done if we had missed that bit of wisdom you added to the thread. Keep up the good work.

[rein]

The bottom line was pointed out several times already ... this launch was an embarresment. What will it be remembered for?

It will be remembered as Sony launching the successor to the PS2. No matter how things turn out a year or two from now the PS3 is nothing more than that. It does it's job really well too. It shows a lot of evolution in the PS line of product. If Sony can get it together more people will see that.

[Vandenh]

>I own a PS3, and I love it

Nuff said...

[Talltale]

Can I have some plzz?

Sure, I think you deserve it. :)

[Dag-Sabot]

The bottom line was pointed out several times already ... this launch was an embarresment. What will it be remembered for?What is giant historic crabs, Alex.

[Zanzibar]

Funny. I got into this thread late. I looked at it from the front page, saw 90 replies, and said 'Wow, I wonder what this discussion is about.' Clicked on it, scrolled down a few, and saw Sony King's first contribution:

Because every other company has kept up with their promises right? Typical how people try to find something bad to say about SOny, but hey I guess that's how people are when your at top, they just try and try to bring you down, sad really

And then, I knew why there were 90 replies.

They have enjoyed their time at the top. But they've gotten soft, arrogant, and greedy. They didn't believe that people will look elsewhere. They took their loyal supporters for granted. And now that there's a viable alternative, people will jump ship.

(I was talking about Sony, not the GOP, by the way.)

[RevGored]

Sony King - Stop fucking posting.

Other than that, I agree with the topic of this thread, which is that Sony shipped below thier initial forecast for Playstation 3 consoles. I would like to own one at this time, but there is no software in which I am very interested, and the price tag is, in my own opinion which I am in no way propagating on anyone else, a touch too high for me.

Also, Sony King - Stop fucking posting.

[Opty]

Apparently Sony King can invalidate user's posts based on the fact they don't work for a company that makes PS3 games and/or has programming access to the PS3. Well, using that idealogy the majority of the internet's posts (including yours, Sony King of Homecoming) are invalidated since none of them have worked on creating a game/system.

[Royal Fool]

Oh, lord.

EXTRA LETTERS

[Slack3r78]

Did someone say "troll"?
This officially wins the award for the most hilariously ironic post of the week.

That said, at least you were just crazy. This kid is just delusional.

[Zeal]

Oh please, that guy is just a plant.

Kinda like half of us who have been assigned to post here.

[Evil Avnovice]

I guess this begs the question: Is Sony really going to provide enough units for the second batch? I'd be surprised if those also fell victim to ebay.

Off topic: Why do I keep missing these classic EvAv threads? :( It looks like a party was going on in here. :D

[JimmyDanger]

Aah - it's times like this that I really regret that live in a different timezone - and like, try to work for some of the day - and I miss great throwdowns like this.

I'm relatively new (but currently devoted to) this site - and while at first I thought many people were pro MS, pro - Nintendo, pro - Sega - what I discovered is that - unlike most gaming sites and forums I tend to frequent - the average age of the posters on this site is a wee bit older.

And thank god for that. Finally a site where gamers who actually give a fuck about games, and the industry - venting, recommending, advising, and interacting.

We've been through a couple of dozen or so launches, heard next-gen bandied about since the NES (and a lot of my gaming love still lies in the 8-bit era - as much on pcs/home computers back then) - we remember the US$99 magic price point - and we've seen giants rise and fall.

Let me tell you kids - and I really start to sound lke an old man when I'm saying "kids" - Sony King, and your brethren (and I know I was offended as fuck getting called a "kid" at 17) - history repeats.

No early adopters buying games = no magic price point = no mass market acceptance.

I'm probably a bit more hardcore than the other 99 million people who bough a PS2. In fact I'd dare say that most everyone who posts in these here pages is more hardcore than 99 million of the people who bought a PS2. And dare I leap to a conclusion that we also buy more games than 99 million people who bought a PS2 and hell - 98% of whatever console you care to name.

I bought launch price PS1. A SNES, and imported MD before that - and back in 95 - with Nintendo arrogant as hell (and basically denying that optical media played any part in the future of console gaming, maybe after being burnt a bit with the Famicom FDD - but still being greedy) - and Sega just releasing too many damn short term propositions (MegaCd,32x,Saturn - within 2 1/2 years) - Sony was the dark horse I wanted to see come through.

Hell - apart from Wipeout, Tekken and Ridge Racer (all very fn and innovative - 11 years ago) - launch was poop. Sony was the first to really do the "bad launch" (ie. no first party) because they didn't have a studio. Instead they bought Psygnosis. No Super Mario World or Revenge Of Shinobi here - but with all the word of Square and Capcom jumping on board to develop "nextgen" games - free of profit prohibitive licenses/exclusive deals Nintendo placed on the for the last 10 years - Sony was the one to back for the fresh games. This industry needed a shae up, and the old leaders nedded to get off their high horses and let everyone in.

And they achieved success - after a couple of years - the magic price point - and suddenly a mainstream acceptance of video gaming in the lounge room. They offered more than a console to play games - a standalone cd player for the lounge room - or even kids bedroom, with no stereo - only a TV required (and of course we can't ignore the mass chipping/piracy issue across much of Europe and definitely in Australia - we were one of the first countries to legalise chipping - though it's on/off - and the cases have been raised by Sony AND MS in the past 4 years - I don't support "aarr matey" personally) .

Suddenly from the bedrooms - the console emerged. Sony had taken CD + videogame - and merged it into mainstream acceptance. Well - they provided the platform - it was the FF7's and RE's and Crash Bandicoots, Turismo's (a bit after year one) - that had provided the arsenal.

Nintendo woke up to themselves - Sega woke up to themselves.
But Sony - with their install base - kept the devs, and the mass market - the $199 impulse buy nongamer - never bought a console before the PS1 "cause it wasn't cool" market.

And Sony sledged the Dreamcast like you wouldn't believe. I was playing fucking Unreal Tournament on a dialup with not too much lag in fucking Australia - and Sony were claiming they were gonna have their own internet with PS2. I - at the time - and a lot of you may shamefully admit you did too - bought up all their hype.

And what did I fucking get? From Space Channel 5 to fucking kessen? Even on a PS1 - 2 scale UmJammerLammy to fucking PaRappa2? FFX was a grave fucking disappointment for me (FF7+ FF8 minus anything remotely novel or interesting = but they did this!) and I know many will disagree.

I didn't get my Matrix plugin or PS2 internet that Ken promised me. So then after helping develop the DC, with the slaying of Sega (in USA/Europe virtually) - MS entered the fold. No internets Ken, but I got an Xbox - and then a fucking game and a control pad for gratis for MS as a thankyou when they lowered the price - which I've never fucking seen before in this industry.

So I've got a 360 and a broadband connection. I like switching from "hardcore" to "casual" games playing online, I like the fact that - as a gamer - I've moved on from 5, 10,15 years ago in my total gaming experience. I love my retro - but if that was my only thing I had - gaming'd be a much more occassional, nostalgic part of my life.
There's so many great albums, films, novels and sequential artworks vying for my attentions - I don't need to relive rehashed experiences. I want my fucking hoverboard and virtual headset! (eventually).

So I'm not flying Sony's flag at the moment. They don't need or deserve my dollar right now. And as far as HiFi - I'll take Samsung/Pioneer for video/audio over their overpriced gear any day right now. My trinitron was great, but since they removed the interlacing, they've sorta been behind on that game.

I don't think any long term gamer could really say anything resoundingly positive about Sony right now without putting aside a lot of grievances. But for all those playing devil's advocate - I hope Sony are listening.

[Exodus]

It won't matter. For all of the ps3's woes, price tag, like the ps2 that debut'd at what? 550$ canuck dollars? then 6 months later went down to 300?

as soon as the big titles come for it where will people stand then?

I could simply take screenshots now of all the hate that's going on and I am by far not a huge sony fan or some crap and do prefer the 360 simply because microsoft brought about xbl, something that should've been introduced when games like doom were even had mp but alas didn't.

Big titles hit the ps3, the tunes are going to change, the tune people are going to sing will be quite a bit different a year from now. It happens all the time.

EDIT:

And play your own music in games, god I always wanted that, fuck YAH

[rein]

Aah - it's times like this that I really regret that live in a different timezone - and like, try to work for some of the day - and I miss great throwdowns like this.

I'm relatively new (but currently devoted to) this site - and while at first I thought many people were pro MS, pro - Nintendo, pro - Sega - what I discovered is that - unlike most gaming sites and forums I tend to frequent - the average age of the posters on this site is a wee bit older.

And thank god for that. Finally a site where gamers who actually give a fuck about games, and the industry - venting, recommending, advising, and interacting.

We've been through a couple of dozen or so launches, heard next-gen bandied about since the NES (and a lot of my gaming love still lies in the 8-bit era - as much on pcs/home computers back then) - we remember the US$99 magic price point - and we've seen giants rise and fall.

Let me tell you kids - and I really start to sound lke an old man when I'm saying "kids" - Sony King, and your brethren (and I know I was offended as fuck getting called a "kid" at 17) - history repeats.

No early adopters buying games = no magic price point = no mass market acceptance.

I'm probably a bit more hardcore than the other 99 million people who bough a PS2. In fact I'd dare say that most everyone who posts in these here pages is more hardcore than 99 million of the people who bought a PS2. And dare I leap to a conclusion that we also buy more games than 99 million people who bought a PS2 and hell - 98% of whatever console you care to name.

I bought launch price PS1. A SNES, and imported MD before that - and back in 95 - with Nintendo arrogant as hell (and basically denying that optical media played any part in the future of console gaming, maybe after being burnt a bit with the Famicom FDD - but still being greedy) - and Sega just releasing too many damn short term propositions (MegaCd,32x,Saturn - within 2 1/2 years) - Sony was the dark horse I wanted to see come through.

Hell - apart from Wipeout, Tekken and Ridge Racer (all very fn and innovative - 11 years ago) - launch was poop. Sony was the first to really do the "bad launch" (ie. no first party) because they didn't have a studio. Instead they bought Psygnosis. No Super Mario World or Revenge Of Shinobi here - but with all the word of Square and Capcom jumping on board to develop "nextgen" games - free of profit prohibitive licenses/exclusive deals Nintendo placed on the for the last 10 years - Sony was the one to back for the fresh games. This industry needed a shae up, and the old leaders nedded to get off their high horses and let everyone in.

And they achieved success - after a couple of years - the magic price point - and suddenly a mainstream acceptance of video gaming in the lounge room. They offered more than a console to play games - a standalone cd player for the lounge room - or even kids bedroom, with no stereo - only a TV required (and of course we can't ignore the mass chipping/piracy issue across much of Europe and definitely in Australia - we were one of the first countries to legalise chipping - though it's on/off - and the cases have been raised by Sony AND MS in the past 4 years - I don't support "aarr matey" personally) .

Suddenly from the bedrooms - the console emerged. Sony had taken CD + videogame - and merged it into mainstream acceptance. Well - they provided the platform - it was the FF7's and RE's and Crash Bandicoots, Turismo's (a bit after year one) - that had provided the arsenal.

Nintendo woke up to themselves - Sega woke up to themselves.
But Sony - with their install base - kept the devs, and the mass market - the $199 impulse buy nongamer - never bought a console before the PS1 "cause it wasn't cool" market.

And Sony sledged the Dreamcast like you wouldn't believe. I was playing fucking Unreal Tournament on a dialup with not too much lag in fucking Australia - and Sony were claiming they were gonna have their own internet with PS2. I - at the time - and a lot of you may shamefully admit you did too - bought up all their hype.

And what did I fucking get? From Space Channel 5 to fucking kessen? Even on a PS1 - 2 scale UmJammerLammy to fucking PaRappa2? FFX was a grave fucking disappointment for me (FF7+ FF8 minus anything remotely novel or interesting = but they did this!) and I know many will disagree.

I didn't get my Matrix plugin or PS2 internet that Ken promised me. So then after helping develop the DC, with the slaying of Sega (in USA/Europe virtually) - MS entered the fold. No internets Ken, but I got an Xbox - and then a fucking game and a control pad for gratis for MS as a thankyou when they lowered the price - which I've never fucking seen before in this industry.

So I've got a 360 and a broadband connection. I like switching from "hardcore" to "casual" games playing online, I like the fact that - as a gamer - I've moved on from 5, 10,15 years ago in my total gaming experience. I love my retro - but if that was my only thing I had - gaming'd be a much more occassional, nostalgic part of my life.
There's so many great albums, films, novels and sequential artworks vying for my attentions - I don't need to relive rehashed experiences. I want my fucking hoverboard and virtual headset! (eventually).

So I'm not flying Sony's flag at the moment. They don't need or deserve my dollar right now. And as far as HiFi - I'll take Samsung/Pioneer for video/audio over their overpriced gear any day right now. My trinitron was great, but since they removed the interlacing, they've sorta been behind on that game.

I don't think any long term gamer could really say anything resoundingly positive about Sony right now without putting aside a lot of grievances. But for all those playing devil's advocate - I hope Sony are listening.

Great post. I do not agree with everything you said, but good job putting it out there. BTW, Sony was the first to announce the price drop of the PS2 before the Xbox. Remember that? lol.

[Evil Avatar]

125,000 is pitiful. And they tried to rag on Microsoft for only having 350,000 on launch day.

It has been a while, but didn't Microsoft do a worldwide launch with 1 Million units worldwide? 350k was only for the USA.

Sony launched with something like 80k in Japan and 125k in the USA.

No one knows how many Nintendo launched with. I'm guessing (from some reports I've read) about 700k with the other 700k to ship between now and Christmas.

[51|RandoM]

Another botched Sony launch. Did they learn after the PS2?


Oh wow, another person under the mistaken assumption that Sony intended to release the PS3 at this time.

Hint: If microsoft hadn't pronounced the xbox dead on arrival and switched to the 360 for their second attempt, PS3 wouldn't be shipping.

The PS3 is a rush job, no doubt about it, but please don't be so dim as to think they planned it as a rush job on purpose.

[Evil Avatar]

But it is still real time now isn't it? It would still be playable. Yes it would be choppy like hell, but it would still be real time. Sony never said it was going to run at 60 FPS now.

It has already been revealed several times that the Killzone movie was not real time.

Sony has flat out not shown anything from the game since then, I can only imagine because it looks nothing like that demo.

Oddly, Gears of War comes pretty damn close to that demo in some places.

[Evil Avatar]

The launch titles are mediocre (so where the Wii's and the 360's) and the next wave isn't much better.

To be fair, the Wii did launch with Zelda which is one of their top-selling brands. Microsoft didn't manage that and neither did Sony.

Microsoft's system launch wasn't spectacular, but it was extremely well rounded.

GUN, Quake 4, Call of Duty 2, Kameo, Perfect Dark Zero, Project Gotham 3, Condemned and wasn't Ghost Recon available pretty close to launch or at launch?

[Evil Avatar]

http://www.videogamesblogger.com/2006/10/13/microsoft-lost-126-billion-launching-the-xbox-360.htm

http://theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=26497



For future reference... nothing posted on theinquirer.net can be considered proof of anything. And linking to some other little-known blog on top of that rag certainly doesn't bode well for your arguement.

[Exodus]

close if you mean within 6 months of launch, yah ;)
but some of those titles were available from launch day the line up wasn't purely solid but it was good enough to say they had a line up that had varying games that people could play and enjoy, but like any console out the door, the good games don't truley come til second round from the developers

[LilEvilFish]

*falls into the forum, brushing snow off of his shoulders*

Sorry I'm late, had to get the flame retardent suit back from the cleaners! Does anyone need it right now... oh.

[Cavalier]

So that analyst (http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20832) who said, the other week, that only 200k units would turn up was right?

What's the world coming to :)

[Evil Avatar]

So that analyst who said, the other week, that only 200k units would turn up was right?

What's the world coming to :)

Yes, because if you read the article he was using projections provided by some of the top retailers and not just pulling numbers out of his ass like those people normally do.

He also said that Nintendo would only sell about 1.2 Million systems between launch and Christmas.

[51|RandoM]

To be fair, the Wii did launch with Zelda which is one of their top-selling brands. Microsoft didn't manage that and neither did Sony.


Zelda is a gamecube game that has been polished for the Wii. Not only that, but you'll be able to play it on gamecube very soon.

The better 360/PS3 launch titles aren't titles that exist and/or are playable on Xbox/PS2.

I don't see a good Wii original game in the Wii launch. Monkey Ball could be, though, now that I really think about it. I always loved that series on cube, hopefull the new one is even better. I could see it making great use of the new control scheme.

[Royal Fool]

Zelda is a gamecube game that has been polished for the Wii. Not only that, but you'll be able to play it on gamecube very soon.

The better 360/PS3 launch titles aren't titles that exist and/or are playable on Xbox/PS2.
That's true. Sony and Microsoft wish they could so easily grab a game from "last-gen", slap it on their next-gen console and have it sell as crazy as Twilight Princess most likely has by now.

Microsoft sort of did it with Kameo (and maybe Perfect Dark Zero?), however.

[DangerousDaze]

"Analyst predicts analyst's prediction was correct". Who'd a thunk it?

Meanwhile, did anyone really think Sony was going to deliver the numbers? What's important is whether they can maintain and increase supply going forward.

DD

[Heretic Machine]

Zelda is a gamecube game that has been polished for the Wii. Not only that, but you'll be able to play it on gamecube very soon.

The better 360/PS3 launch titles aren't titles that exist and/or are playable on Xbox/PS2.

I don't see a good Wii original game in the Wii launch. Monkey Ball could be, though, now that I really think about it. I always loved that series on cube, hopefull the new one is even better. I could see it making great use of the new control scheme.

Wii Sports. It comes with the system, and offers hours of replayable entertainment. Zelda, though it shouldn't be a system seller. I've heard from Lekon and others that Rayman is excellent. Elebits comes out in December. Trauma Center is getting a lot of good reviews. Excite Truck is getting a lot of good reviews. As well, it looks like the Wii is going to have a good first quarter for 2007. That makes for a great launch.

Of course, if you have the means, the 360 is the better option at the moment because of it's head start and heavily polished online integration.

[JimmyDanger]

Great post. I do not agree with everything you said, but good job putting it out there. BTW, Sony was the first to announce the price drop of the PS2 before the Xbox. Remember that? lol.

Yep. And I remember (very well as an adopter who paid PS2 launch price for a launch PS1 - well 750$AU vs. $700 au rrp anyway) Sony doing nothing. Ha Ha. Our cutting edge bleeding price tech that was underpriced because it was the matrix tech is now %20 cheaper. Suck eggs.
Sure it forced MS into a price drop - that was inevitable - and when the strategy was to bleed MS - who were spending something like %50 more per unit to produce the more powerful, HDD, broadband enabled units than Sony's quality laser PS2's. But MS responded how?

Like any other console maker forced into that corner (look how cheap Dc's got when PS2 launched ...ditto Genesis/MD - SNES, and eventually N64 - PS1) - they dropped their price - but did the unthinkable. Reward their early adopters with actual SKu product, not demo discs or gimmicks.

Many people forget that. Not me. But obviously Sony. If they drop the PS3 price within 6 months and send all you PS3 early adopters a game and a Sixaxis - I'll be fucking championing and clapping Sony no end.

Just haven't seen it though.

[the soUL TRAder]

Hey EV and the gang.....

First time poster, long time lurker.
Or "long time" as in three months since I stumbled on the Podcast.
But, hey, in the gaming universe, that makes me an expert right?

I first must say, Bravo on the news page, always filled with the freshest, first; absolutely the news page is reason I kept coming back, keep it up.

Next, even though I've done some "troll-bashing" over at xbox.com since the XBL beta, I respect all gamers and the games they play, and truely hope those who got a PS3 and Wii are gaming it up as I blather on.

Finnally, I never really expected to post in a multi-console forum, even here, in EAs, where I always found significantly more civility in all the fanboy soldiers than the other sites. But, mostly because I can't seem to agree with many other gamers and sometimes it....well..."gets messy"..so I try to not start none.

And, than.............in "snuck" Sony King.
Of all the #4 posts, in all the threads about bad Sony business, on all the forums full of trolls (no offense to most of you, just the "non-posters"), on all the information nets across the universe, into >>>>>>>http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21335<<<<<<<<
walks temptation I couldn't ignore.

Sony King, I just want to say, to come in here, PEONic, and jump all over some of the community, when you're trying to defend a giant Sony thud, well, let me just say...
You're "1337" dude!

Anyway, to get to the facts of the matter, while the small PS3 launch numbers will look bad across the HyperGlobalMegaNet, it will actually be good for Sony to get these small numbers out so they can learn of potential problems, refine manufacturing and , most importantly............GET some GAMES.
The bad news is, the race is heating up and they are still at the gate.

The 360 is by no means perfection, IMO, but concidering my "gaming profile"
(tactical shooter/sports fan)
it was a "no brainer" to get the system.
My part of the 5.0 games attach rate is:
CoD2, TW06, GRaW, ES:Oblvn, Chromehounds, SC:DA, RS:V
and Bioshock is the game I most hope to live long enough to play.

While I'm not sure, I hope the Wii gives me good reasons for a $199 purchase. It would be great if it were that "party system" to pull out when friends are around, especially non gamers.

The PS3 is just a bigger question mark, but I'm not gonna loose too much sleep over it, when there are enough Games and BR movies I want to get, i'll sure give it a look. And, of course, if they had a "must play" exclusive than more thought might be spent.
Not looking likely till after a price drop, so that helps.

However, I have done some research and I'd like to say to call the 360 architecture "limited" in comparison to the PS3 is completely wrong.
The PS3 might have a bigger power base, it's in the classic design, and, so it's limited by the classic limitations.
The unique 360 design will allow devlopers to do things with the eDram and XNA that can't be done on "classic" designs

In the end, that means very good to great developers will be able to make good to great games on the PS3, but some good developers may make mediocre games and mediocre ones will be left out.
On the 360 medicore to good developers will make good to very good games and very good ones will make great games. And great developers will gome over the top with the hammer of awsome+1.

But that's probably nothing more than fanboy dreaming, but at least it's not FanbiosNarcosis.......Good luck with that Sony King.

And I am out.
Good gameplay for all!

PS....can anybody point me in the direction of the story on resoulution being the fourth most important aspect of TV visual quaility, thanks in advance.

[JimmyDanger]

Hey EV and the gang.....

First time poster, long time lurker.

Lots of loverly stuff.

However, I have done some research and I'd like to say to call the 360 architecture "limited" in comparison to the PS3 is completely wrong.
The PS3 might have a bigger power base, it's in the classic design, and, so it's limited by the classic limitations.
The unique 360 design will allow devlopers to do things with the eDram and XNA that can't be done on "classic" designs


!


A classic design?

Now I may be getting old and all, but what do you kiddies mean when you talk about a classic design?

This didn't quite clear it up for me.

Dpad Technical analysis of PS3/X360 (http://dpad.gotfrag.com/portal/story/35372/?spage=1)

Not a negative article by any means for either console. But relevant.

Please show me some serious pieces that deal with this "classic" design, so I better understand it. Maybe Nintendo or Sega could shed some light on "classic" design - as Sony's only having it's third go round, and to me at the moment, it looks a lot like their last one. (But hopefully not their last)

[vivafletcher]

Way to take things out of content. I was telling another member that whether it was running at 30 FPS or at 5 FPS it would still be real time, Never did I say, "well man your stupid because the trailer at E3 WAS real time and it ran at 30 FPS" see the difference?


I used to have pet goldfish, but they died :(

Early reports indicate the goldfish committed suicide rather than be owned by you. :eek:

[MrMeatshake]

http://www.videogamesblogger.com/2006/10/13/microsoft-lost-126-billion-launching-the-xbox-360.htm

http://theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=26497

add them together you get about -5 to-6 billion dollars


And it will become visible once again when the 360 reaches its limits.

i hate this guy.

[Dirty Harry]

i hate this guy.
I FEEL INTENSE <3 FOR THIS USER.

[morose]

Why are people feeding the troll? :)

[bapenguin]

Oh wow, another person under the mistaken assumption that Sony intended to release the PS3 at this time.



Exactly..the intended to release it in the Spring of 2006. :)

[f1sh3r]

I am new here so I don't know about what happened here with MS, but from the other forums, no one cared whether MS met up with their numbers. I expect this though, Sony is in the lime light right now, even though the fanboys hate to admit they have their eyes on Sony. They are there to watch Sony's every step, hoping that they might make a misstep.

yes the news is full of stories about stabbings and shootings while attempting to get a ps3. bask in that limelight sony.

[GunnyMo]

So this means ebay prices should go up? :D

[Sony King]

Early reports indicate the goldfish committed suicide rather than be owned by you. :eek:
:(


i hate this guy.
Please tell me something else and I'll pretend that I care :)


Why are people feeding the troll? :)
Why would people NOT feed the troll?

[webrunner]

Both Sony and Microsoft's XBox Division backpedal, lie, and stretch the truth as marketing ploys.

But Microsoft's XBox division doesn't treat their customers like a nuisance they have to deal with. They don't, for instance, say major hardware defects are a side-effect of having a beautiful machine that you have to live with (remember the PSP button fiasco?). They don't lie through their teeth about EVERYTHING even when it would be better if they didn't.

[Lunar Blue]

I'm not saying this day was worse than average but god damn, it will get better when someone shoves the ban hammer up Sony Kings rectum!

[Sony King]

I'm not saying this day was worse than average but god damn, it will get better when someone shoves the ban hammer up Sony Kings rectum!
Shut up, you know you love me :)

[dirtbag]

Why are people feeding the troll? :)

Seriously -- a simple news post became Sony Troll's ticket to tons of attention. Maybe I should make a new avatar called "Micro$oft Whore", so I can get my fair share :o

[31 Flavas]

Hey EV and the gang.....

First time poster, long time lurker.
Or "long time" as in three months since I stumbled on the Podcast.
But, hey, in the gaming universe, that makes me an expert right?Certainly is a heck of a first thread to make your appearance in, but hey... you've gotta start somewhere. Welcome to the club.

[Dag-Sabot]

Can i change my name to: MicroHARDuberpwnzr2000-King?

[jspeak32]

Shut up, you know you love me :)

Ok, so far everyones been discussing what sony did wrong, what microsoft did wrong, etc. etc.
But the #1 thing that should only matters to gamers is the end-user experience.

Sony King, you said you are playing your PS3 now, and you "used" to play your 360. I'm assuming this is because you are having a more enjoyable experience with the PS3.
I own a 360, so you need not tell me why you enjoyed it (I'm assuming you did), I'm sure our reasons are the same.
But I want to know about your ps3 experience. What have you enjoyed about it thus far? I'm not talking about future enjoyment, but NOW enjoyment. That includes the games, not just what the console can do (now, not later). I'm guessing the experience is pretty enjoyable since it sounds like you havent touched your 360 since you've purchased a ps3.

[Reanimated]

What happened to the evav troll banning policy?

[Banacek]

What happened to the evav troll banning policy?

It's on a holiday, stuffing it's face with turkey and gravy.

[the soUL TRAder]

Certainly is a heck of a first thread to make your appearance in, but hey... you've gotta start somewhere. Welcome to the club.

Thanx for the welcome Flavas.

It's a plan really, as SonyKing draws all the attention, I can quietly look for a spot to fit in.


A classic design?

Now I may be getting old and all, but what do you kiddies mean when you talk about a classic design?

This didn't quite clear it up for me.

Dpad Technical analysis of PS3/X360 (http://dpad.gotfrag.com/portal/story/35372/?spage=1)

Not a negative article by any means for either console. But relevant.

Please show me some serious pieces that deal with this "classic" design, so I better understand it. Maybe Nintendo or Sega could shed some light on "classic" design - as Sony's only having it's third go round, and to me at the moment, it looks a lot like their last one. (But hopefully not their last)

When I said "classic" I was being nice, it's really just old.
And yes I know theCell is supposed to be super-duper, but that really enhances performance, it isn't a radical change in architecture.
But when you're not trying to make a gaming machine, you need to keep that old design so it runs like a PC.

Unified Shader Arch and eDram are things you try when you ARE making a game machine, even if it makes it less adept at general computing, and potentially will be able to be refined more to help developers make fun games and do it easier.

In the end, I think this will be a "golden gen" of gaming, especially because of how strong the community is around it.

[gpryu]

Going back to the original topic for a second... this is the exact paragraph from the article on MSN as of two minutes ago:

'McNealy said his research indicated that Sony's initial unit numbers for its launch weekend in North America were in the range of 125,000 to 175,000, including some of the 15,000 units SNE was sending to retailers for interactive kiosks.'

The first part of this paragraph was left of the original quote. Of particular interest are the words 'his research'... which means this is the analyst's personal research of which we have no idea how we came to this conclusion. And we all know how often these guys get it right, right?

Not to say the Sony (or anyone's) direct PR line is to be belived either, but I would tend to think the numbers this guy is spewing aren't quite right. Especially since reorders have already shipped according to Gamestop, Sony PR AND people on these forums.

[Jack B]

PS....can anybody point me in the direction of the story on resoulution being the fourth most important aspect of TV visual quaility, thanks in advance.

I don't have a link handy, but the ranking was for broadcast TV and Movie viewing, not specifically console or PC games. Console/PC games would have a different ranking where resolution/frame rate etc. play a somewhat more important role. Even then it would depend on what type of game, if it had FMV etc.

Hope this helps. If you search old posts here you might find the thread.

[Tel Prydain]

Going back to the original topic for a second... this is the exact paragraph from the article on MSN as of two minutes ago:

'McNealy said his research indicated that Sony's initial unit numbers for its launch weekend in North America were in the range of 125,000 to 175,000, including some of the 15,000 units SNE was sending to retailers for interactive kiosks.'

The first part of this paragraph was left of the original quote. Of particular interest are the words 'his research'... which means this is the analyst's personal research of which we have no idea how we came to this conclusion. And we all know how often these guys get it right, right?

Not to say the Sony (or anyone's) direct PR line is to be belived either, but I would tend to think the numbers this guy is spewing aren't quite right. Especially since reorders have already shipped according to Gamestop, Sony PR AND people on these forums.

Greetings, possible shill – and welcome to Evil Avatar.

Other reports state similar numbers, which are obtained from querying retailers on how many units they sold. Please note: the numbers are Launch numbers, and are not likely to count re-orders.

Thanks for playing!

[the soUL TRAder]

I don't have a link handy, but the ranking was for broadcast TV and Movie viewing, not specifically console or PC games. Console/PC games would have a different ranking where resolution/frame rate etc. play a somewhat more important role. Even then it would depend on what type of game, if it had FMV etc.

Hope this helps. If you search old posts here you might find the thread.

Thanks, and thanks for the clairification.
I couldn't find the exact link either, but I narrowed it to:
Contrast ratio
Latency
colour
resolution
I imagine color especially might be more important in gaming than broadcast/movies.

[Tel Prydain]

Sometimes I wonder if the blog sphere (EvAv, Joystiq, etc) are not really a cluster-fuck of shills, all attempting to sway the other shills into looking at their parent products.
8000 shills – all posting at once.

Evil Avatar: Shilling With Attitude!

[gpryu]

Two points to that:

-If other reports, factual reports (not analyst or PR shill, to use your word) exist, where are they? Why haven't the game sites or other news sites picked up on them? So far, there has been a bunch of analyst speculation, some vague sales reports from Gamestop and the PR lines that horrifically one sided to whatever camp is spewing them. All the arguments in the world are not going to change whatever the actual number is; problem is, as far as I can tell, no one has it. All anyone has are guesses, both of the wild and educated variety. I just wanna know what it is, not what some analyst thinks it is so the topic can die and stops being news :)
My reason for responding is the original quote left off the first three words of the paragraph, which changed the entire thing from fact to a single analysts opinion, and does change the scope of the debate.
While it doubtful (OK, more like nigh impossible) that 400K PS3 went out at launch, I'd also say it's doubful less than half that number went out.

-The quote on the last post was priceless. Probably accurate as well, sad as it may be.

[JimmyDanger]

Two points to that:

-If other reports, factual reports (not analyst or PR shill, to use your word) exist, where are they? Why haven't the game sites or other news sites picked up on them?

Here you go -
There's one -

Jolt UK - PS3 sales as low as 125,000 in U.S.? (http://www.jolt.co.uk/index.php?articleid=7534)

Or maybe this...

NextGenWars - Console sales by system - worldwide (http://www.nexgenwars.com/)

More to the point - have any reputable news sites reported than Sony shipped their 400k - or have hard figures - data isn't availabe yet - because I haven't seen that. Rest assured though - this isn't some conspiracy. Sony underdelivered...

[Yeti2005]

While it doubtful (OK, more like nigh impossible) that 400K PS3 went out at launch, I'd also say it's doubful less than half that number went out.

Why do you think it's doubtful half the number went out? I don't think Sony has been very honest with consumers lately (spring launch, global launch, 100K in Japan, 120 fps games, all launch titles 1080p, etc.)

[51|RandoM]

Why do you think it's doubtful half the number went out? I don't think Sony has been very honest with consumers lately (spring launch, global launch, 100K in Japan, 120 fps games, all launch titles 1080p, etc.)

I don't see it that way at all. I see it as sony continually not making their forecasts. If a meteorologist makes a string of bad predictions, you don't say he isn't being honest, you say he is a bad meteorologist. Well, sony is doing a piss poor job when forecasting their production schedule.

If you think they've been lying over and over again on purpose, start up a lawsuit.

Fact of the matter is that the typical videogamer had no idea what the real launch dates were, what the projected shipdates were, nothing. What they know is what their gamestop guy tells him about when they can preorder.

Sony overpromised and underdelivered. :p

[Yeti2005]

I don't see it that way at all. I see it as sony continually not making their forecasts. If a meteorologist makes a string of bad predictions, you don't say he isn't being honest, you say he is a bad meteorologist. Well, sony is doing a piss poor job when forecasting their production schedule.

If you think they've been lying over and over again on purpose, start up a lawsuit.

Fact of the matter is that the typical videogamer had no idea what the real launch dates were, what the projected shipdates were, nothing. What they know is what their gamestop guy tells him about when they can preorder.

Sony overpromised and underdelivered. :p

I can't tell if you're a Sony die hard or just naive.

[Citizen Philip]

Did I miss anything?

-A new console is released.
-It is very hard to find.
-It doesn't have many titles.
-It could use some work, problems have been found.
-It may take a number of months before any games, or the unit itself is worth picking up.

If not, I'm going to roll over and go back to sleep, if you snort and kick up another hissy fit, I'm dumping your ass outside the front door.

[Tel Prydain]

-The quote on the last post was priceless. Probably accurate as well, sad as it may be.

Why, thankyou! :D

To clarify, I don’t think that you really are a shill.

You are one of several first time posters who have popped up in this thread – just in time to write an articulate and fair post that could be considered damage control for Sony.
It’s kinda sad that the ‘impartial’ posts are actually more ‘suspect’ then the bland fan-boy rants (no shill would be so obvious).

Evil Avatar
Fanboys Vs Shills: FIGHT!

[JimmyDanger]

I don't see it that way at all. I see it as sony continually not making their forecasts. If a meteorologist makes a string of bad predictions, you don't say he isn't being honest, you say he is a bad meteorologist.

Are you fucking serious man?

You'd compare some guy who makes predictions based on moving clouds, winds, storms and pressure readings, based on a multitiude of sources, from satellite photos to barometer readings hundreds of km's away -

To a company that's designing, producing and marketing a product? Their own product?

(not to mention the product isn't up in the sky - or maybe it is)

So by this definition Sony aren't dishonest, just a bad company?

C'mon - you're 12 aren't you?

[gpryu]

'Doubtful' in the sense that when the number has been cut by large amounts (see: Japan launch quantity being cut and European launch delay), they've been forthright with the info (granted, sometimes it is at the last minute, but it's always happened in advance of launch). To not say it, and having the facts prove it to be the case later, would be disastrious from a PR standpoint methinks. Whereas, if you pony up the bad news upfront, you'll get some grumbling but (usually) won't piss anyone off that bad. I seem to recall the same grumbling last year with 360, and likewise with the PS2. And we've all seen how well both seem to have done since then, right?

I think Citizen Phillip has said it best: it's a hardware launch, shit happens. On the 360, there were short supplies and 1-2 games (COD 2 and Gotham) worth buying. The Wii: short supply, one little game named Zelda and updates that brick the hardware at some limited level (to what degree, no one knows... can't be more than 1% though). PS3? Short supply and one (Resistance), possibly two (Madden, if you like football) titles worth a damn.

Nothing has changed, and continueing to debate the point is, well, pointless. Going back to the original point, my only reason for leaping into the fray vs lurking is the initial quote that sparked the 150-odd responses left off a bit of info that changes the debate from fact to one man's interpretation of what we believe to be facts, except we do not know where the info is coming from

(BTW, to answer Tel, it's my first post simply because I tend to lurk unless I have a point to make. I noticed that no one else picked up on the missing words in the quote, so hear I am :)

[Evil Avatar]

I just have to laugh at the idea of some company shill posting here on Evil Avatar.com. We see through that fanboy stuff in about 4 seconds (and usually end up banning those user ID's) and if you are stupid enough to PAY someone to post to my forums what you really should be doing is asking me about our advertising rates - since they are probably cheaper than paying someone to post here.

Sony King... the Playstation 3 launch was a complete disaster and no amount of fanboy trolling can change that fact. In a year if Sony continues their history of getting AAA quality exclusive titles it might be a nice system for hardcore gamers to own, but the simple fact is that it will never be as successful as the Xbox 360 or the Wii as long as they have a $600+ sticker price.

The average consumer just doesn't pay that. Check your history books, the bulk of all Playstation systems were sold at the $99.00 price point and the bulk of all Playstation 2 systems were sold at the $149.00 price point.

[GunnyMo]

I just have to laugh at the idea of some company shill posting here on Evil Avatar.com. We see through that fanboy stuff in about 4 seconds (and usually end up banning those user ID's) and if you are stupid enough to PAY someone to post to my forums what you really should be doing is asking me about our advertising rates - since they are probably cheaper than paying someone to post here.



So can we get that sexy banhammer shot for ol' shilly gpyru above? The guy couldn't be a more obvious shill. :D

[Exodus]

I just have to laugh at the idea of some company shill posting here on Evil Avatar.com. We see through that fanboy stuff in about 4 seconds (and usually end up banning those user ID's) and if you are stupid enough to PAY someone to post to my forums what you really should be doing is asking me about our advertising rates - since they are probably cheaper than paying someone to post here.

Sony King... the Playstation 3 launch was a complete disaster and no amount of fanboy trolling can change that fact. In a year if Sony continues their history of getting AAA quality exclusive titles it might be a nice system for hardcore gamers to own, but the simple fact is that it will never be as successful as the Xbox 360 or the Wii as long as they have a $600+ sticker price.

The average consumer just doesn't pay that. Check your history books, the bulk of all Playstation systems were sold at the $99.00 price point and the bulk of all Playstation 2 systems were sold at the $149.00 price point.

Well put, not really much to say after that ;D

[Zanzibar]

I don't see it that way at all. I see it as sony continually not making their forecasts. If a meteorologist makes a string of bad predictions, you don't say he isn't being honest, you say he is a bad meteorologist. Well, sony is doing a piss poor job when forecasting their production schedule.

Oy.

'Our plan is to ship 400,000 units for launch in the US. That has not changed.'

How many times were these words uttered by Kaz/Ken/Harrison/random Sony rep? And at what point before launch were they STILL SAYING IT? A week? 10 days?

Seriously, RandoM, are you trying to suggest that these guys, in continuing to portray their launch production targets as still viable, were telling the truth when they kept up their portrayal 10 days before launch? Were they completely out of touch with their production lines, who could have told them in a PHONE CALL that their targets were unreachable?

Thus, they're either lying, or completely incompetent. There is no third choice.

(EDIT: Come to think of it, I guess 'both' would be a viable third option.)

Another Edit: Read this article, (http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/business/technology/16037639.htm) where Sony COO Jack Tretton finally admits, ON LAUNCH DAY, that they will miss their 400,000 number by 'tens of thousands.' Well, somehow, Jack's fuzzy math skills made him think of using 'tens of thousands' instead of 'hundreds of thousands.' I wonder why that is. Care to apologize for him, too, RandoM?

Yet another edit: Kaz Hirai, a month before launch, saying 400,000 units for the US. (http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4019&Itemid=2)

And, here he is again, 2 WEEKS before launch. Again, 400,000. (http://www.videogamesblogger.com/2006/11/06/sonys-kaz-hirai-cannot-even-give-his-begging-son-a-ps3.htm)

[Chameleo]

i have no idea why some die-hards are SO adamantly against calling the company Sony collective liars.

because thats what they are. they're keeping up the preface of "targets"; they may be "targets" for Sonyboy, but they know they're unattainable - they just aren't admitting it.

and yeah, comparing a meteorologist to sony corporate suits is just wrong. one is a scientist, and the other is a salesman - one who uses logic, the other uses smooth talk and deception for their job. They are not predicting anything - they have hard numbers - they must, or their accounting department would be in tatters; they just refuse to release them because it would hurt the company image too much.

and i can't blame them; they are trying to sell a product here...

[Sony King]

Ok, so far everyones been discussing what sony did wrong, what microsoft did wrong, etc. etc.
But the #1 thing that should only matters to gamers is the end-user experience.

Sony King, you said you are playing your PS3 now, and you "used" to play your 360. I'm assuming this is because you are having a more enjoyable experience with the PS3.
I own a 360, so you need not tell me why you enjoyed it (I'm assuming you did), I'm sure our reasons are the same.
But I want to know about your ps3 experience. What have you enjoyed about it thus far? I'm not talking about future enjoyment, but NOW enjoyment. That includes the games, not just what the console can do (now, not later). I'm guessing the experience is pretty enjoyable since it sounds like you havent touched your 360 since you've purchased a ps3.
Well I am going to get Viva Pinata soon, so I got a reason to play my 360 more. I've already passed Resistance for the 2nd time and I am in love with it. Thats the game that gave me my PS3 experience, and I loved it. I would pay more for it if I had to, but maybe that's just me.

[kickmybum]

OMG, why is everyone arguing with this 12 year old?

[Mashidar]

Well after returning from my drive up and back from Toledo for the holiday's I ran into why sony makes it money really from the general consumer. A family member of mine was talking with me about how he really wanted to get a playstation 3.

I asked him what did he like about it, he went on to tell me that he was at the store playing a demo of a game, not sure what game, but he said the graphics smoked the 360 in his eyes and plus it was a sony system so it looked wonderful.

He knows nothing of system defects, if/when they happen. He knows nothing about launch numbers, before or after. He knows Ebay is a place to get one for alot of money, this tells me that even people that don't follow games know ebay is the ticket for the PS3. All he had to go on was a demo he played and the fact that he thought the 360 looked like crap.

So I asked him what about the 360 he didn't like. He told me that he rented a system from the video store up the road and played about 10 games, and they all looked really poor at home. I looked over his tv, a nice 36" TV, and informed him that his set does not have the ability to output in HD. It was just a normal CRT unit that he was playing his 360 on.

Now if I would of said nothing to him, he might of just bought a PS3 and took it home and been upset with the fact that it would look nothing like the demo unit he played. And I told him when he's in my neck of the woods to come over and i'll show him how the 360 looks in HD. Funny too that a game he loved on the xbox was kill.switch and he never heard of Gears of War, something some say GoW is like.

I guess the overall point of this ramble is this family member could be viewed as the general, uninformed consumer. They see the sony name, and the demo units and right away think it's the best thing ever without ever looking into the details of each system. Also i'm going to assume the general public will not know anything really about HDTV's and how to setup there new sets with there video game systems in order to get the best picture possible.

I don't know, I just know there are more uninformed than informed and after the last few days I just think sony is going to do just fine in the long run, and the 360 will do fine as well. This holiday season it will really come down to how the people that sell the systems present them to the customers. Assuming there happens to be PS3's and Wii's to sell against the 360.

I spent a good three hours pointing out this site, and a number of other sites for him to read through that had news and information about all the systems so that way at least he will have a better understanding of what goes on in the video game market besides what's at a demo station.

[Jack B]

Oy.

'Our plan is to ship 400,000 units for launch in the US. That has not changed.'

How many times were these words uttered by Kaz/Ken/Harrison/random Sony rep? And at what point before launch were they STILL SAYING IT? A week? 10 days?

Seriously, RandoM, are you trying to suggest that these guys, in continuing to portray their launch production targets as still viable, were telling the truth when they kept up their portrayal 10 days before launch? Were they completely out of touch with their production lines, who could have told them in a PHONE CALL that their targets were unreachable?

Thus, they're either lying, or completely incompetent. There is no third choice.

(EDIT: Come to think of it, I guess 'both' would be a viable third option.)

Another Edit: Read this article, (http://www.kansas.com/mld/kansas/business/technology/16037639.htm) where Sony COO Jack Tretton finally admits, ON LAUNCH DAY, that they will miss their 400,000 number by 'tens of thousands.' Well, somehow, Jack's fuzzy math skills made him think of using 'tens of thousands' instead of 'hundreds of thousands.' I wonder why that is. Care to apologize for him, too, RandoM?

Yet another edit: Kaz Hirai, a month before launch, saying 400,000 units for the US. (http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4019&Itemid=2)

And, here he is again, 2 WEEKS before launch. Again, 400,000. (http://www.videogamesblogger.com/2006/11/06/sonys-kaz-hirai-cannot-even-give-his-begging-son-a-ps3.htm)

Zanzibar, I'd say the odds are Sony did know while making some of those statements, but in their defense, I don't think they would have been lies at the time they said them. I can't be sure, but here's why I would defend their statements.

Some contributing factors, as to why Sony wasn't lying.

1 - We're not 100% sure they only shipped 200k +/- PS3's.
2 - Although, they likely shipped the 200k units via container ship (ie 6 weeks transit time) they could have had the extra 200k units produced and capable of shipping via air cargo, which has less than 2 weeks transit time.
3 - Some press comments are delayed, although this is unlikely...

We can't know for sure, but my guess is they could have met the 400k unit estimate, but decided not to incur the significantly larger cost to ship via air cargo. In that case, they wouldn't have been lying. They just changed their mind...

Microsoft did ship some units via air cargo. Sony may still do the same and ship some units via air cargo, but they're already taking such a large loss on each PS3, they may decide to take their lumps and deal with the shortages.

We'll see. That would be a big disappointment to fans wanting a PS3 for the holidays. I'm sure Sony has a tough choice of container ship or air cargo. Here's to hoping they reward fans with air cargo.

[gpryu]

So can we get that sexy banhammer shot for ol' shilly gpyru above? The guy couldn't be a more obvious shill. :D
Interesting... I'm the shill for pointing out the quote that started this was missing text that changes the scope of the statement.

Then acknowledging a seperate post stating all system launches (360,PS3 and Wii) have had hiccups.

Right.

[the soUL TRAder]

I actually think Sony's silence is telling:

If they sold more than the 360, they would have said so by now to make themselves look better.

So, while it may be more than 175,000 units that hit the streets, it's almost a bet it's not more than 250,000-275,000.

Obviously, Sony kept "touting" the 400,000 so the SonyKings could post that it's still more than the 360 had in the US at launch.

However, I could believe, very easily, that this whole launch was a fake.
Simiply a way to generate hype during the important holiday season, keep some consumers hoping that they can still get one soon, and simply have 200-500,000 units on the market, working in "real-world"s, giving them a chance to "beta-test" the units, and make any changes before they ramp production to 100%.

[Shodan2020]

I'm not saying this day was worse than average but god damn, it will get better when someone shoves the ban hammer up Sony Kings rectum!

Rectum? Let's hope it kills him. :)

[KingGorilla]

Well, "launch" according to the industry extends to damn near March, doesn't it?

[51|RandoM]

I can't tell if you're a Sony die hard or just naive.

neither. What I am is somebody who has actually worked in and around big business for 20+ years and am familiar with grandiose plans and tight production schedules being repeatedly shattered by the fickle finger of fate.

I am also somebody who doesn't anthropomrphosize giant corporations. Sony isn't out to get me.

I am also somebody who hasn't forgotten all of the good things that came out of Sony just because of the string of mistakes they've made this generation.

I guess there just isn't enough hatorade to go around for all of us. :p

[51|RandoM]

Are you fucking serious man?

You'd compare some guy who makes predictions based on moving clouds, winds, storms and pressure readings, based on a multitiude of sources, from satellite photos to barometer readings hundreds of km's away -

To a company that's designing, producing and marketing a product? Their own product?

(not to mention the product isn't up in the sky - or maybe it is)

So by this definition Sony aren't dishonest, just a bad company?

C'mon - you're 12 aren't you?

Jimmy, yes I do. A cold front isn't any more predictable than the availabilty of a critical part that is manufactured by some other company.

Case in point: laser diodes. There was a shortage, Sony clearly did not expect a shortage, and therefor it put a dent in their production lines.

...and no, I don't think Sony is purposely dishonest(well, there is marketing and then there is marketing, but everybody is in that club). Sony is made up of a lot of people, I'm pretty sure they're not all on the same page, at the same time, every single moment.

No, I'm not 12, I've matured past that to the point that I don't think of corporations as humungous entities with a single hive-mind, bent upon my destruction. Looks like you haven't, though. :p

[51|RandoM]

Interesting... I'm the shill for pointing out the quote that started this was missing text that changes the scope of the statement.

Then acknowledging a seperate post stating all system launches (360,PS3 and Wii) have had hiccups.

Right.

Just ignore gunnymo, he has a really bad case of big fish-little pond syndrome at the moment. He'll either grow out of it quickly or he'll end up a disgruntled little fish.

The anti-sony clique is very distrustful of anything remotely resembling a logical, objective viewpoint when it comes to Sony's actions as a compnay. Usually they'd say fanboy or troll, but shill has been catching on lately.

Unless you can ignore all of the good stuff that has come from Sony and assume that all of the bad stuff is part of an ongoing plan to make their users unhappy while emptying their wallets, you're obviously a fanboy, troll, shill, or some combination of the three.:rolleyes:

[OUX]

Hey Random, not trying to troll or anything but with your 20+ years of experience do think Sony should have launched now or pushed it back till they could actually hit some of their numbers?

[Major Dan]

Sony should have bit the bullet and launched next spring '07 when they actually had some units to sell. I have finally gotten to play one, Motorstorm, and that game does like good, but so does Excite Truck for the Wii, racing games can look very good easier then other games it seems. But I see the potential and I still plan on getting one, but once the price drops. I think Sony will have to do this soon to keep selling them though, so I think the price will drop next spring-summer.

[klwolf]

the PS3 launch was a joke. They couldn't even come up with half of what they promised North America. I tried to get my hands on one but I guess waiting in line 4 days in advance just wasn't enough to beat all the people that wanted to buy them to sell them :-( but I got a Wii a couple days later and I think that I enjoy that much more than I would a PS3 after playing it :-)

[dirtbag]

I guess waiting in line 4 days in advance just wasn't enough

I'm curious -- where do people get 4 free days to just stand in line? If I was taking 4 days off from work, I'd rather be chillin' with my 360 than standing outside waiting to get mugged.

[Johan]

Sony should have bit the bullet and launched next spring '07 when they actually had some units to sell.

I agree; they would have been better off from a p.r. standpoint, an 'available games' standpoint, developers would have been happy to have a larger base to sell to, and consumers would have actually had a greater shot at the thing.

Oh well.