Nintendo To Launch New System

[Jetherik]

Yahoo News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/japan_nintendo_dc) reports that Nintendo is going to launching a new game console system next year. Here is a snippet:
Nintendo has said that Revolution will be ready for wireless Internet gaming and be backward-compatible with the current generation GameCube, which is now in third place in the console market behind Sony's PlayStation 2 (PS2) and the Xbox.

The new console will be powered by a chip developed by IBM (NYSE:IBM - news) code-named "Broadway" and a graphics processor from ATI Technologies Inc. (Toronto:ATY.TO - news) code-named "Hollywood."

Revolution will use 12 cm optical discs and be about the size of three DVD cases stacked together, the Nihon Keizai said.

This seemed to come out of the blue.

[Montgomery_Python]

Portable? Not so much a feature for these platforms but, OMG TEH XBOX IS HUEG!

[OSX]

Gee Whillikers Batman, my sarcasm meter just blew up...

[Savok]

Not that out of the blue, there's a news bit saying the same thing lower down.

[TrackZero]

Still interesting that it was earlier confirmed that the revolution would be able to play DVDs and had a dual-layer format, now it's being said that it's discs will be 12cm. Prehaps Nintendo means it'll be able to play DVDs, but the games native format will still be the smaller disc...dual layered? Weirdness.

[sTubbs]

I still do not see how that size can be anywhere near correct. Unless Nintendo has invented some new insane cooling method, there is no way I can see for them to put in enough muscle to even come close to what 360 has and what the PS3 will probably have. I am not saying that specifications are everything, I am just not expecting this thing to be representative of next gen power unless Nintendo ships each console with a meatlocker to play it in.

[Savok]

Stubbs, compare the size of the Xbox to the GC. Now look at RE4.

[TrackZero]

I still do not see how that size can be anywhere near correct. Unless Nintendo has invented some new insane cooling method, there is no way I can see for them to put in enough muscle to even come close to what 360 has and what the PS3 will probably have. I am not saying that specifications are everything, I am just not expecting this thing to be representative of next gen power unless Nintendo ships each console with a meatlocker to play it in.

Don't forget how Tiny the cube (without it's many attachments) is to the Xbox and PS2 (original). Very tiny and lightweight by comparison, with hardware better than the PS2 and still good enough to be in the same graphics generation as the Xbox. I don't doubt they'll be able to do it. Their PR rep made the claim publicly, so I'm sure they've actually seen some running prototypes at this point.

[if76]

I could see it being so small but not with a harddrive. Personally I think having one will be very important to this next generation considering how slow DVD's are to read the large amount of RAM that will need to be filled up. Loading times are already long enough.

[TheEpicOfTyler]

12cm is the size of a DVD, rougly.

[Savok]

Nintendo has always hated loading times, they'll of worked out something.

[TrackZero]

I could see it being so small but not with a harddrive. Personally I think having one will be very important to this next generation considering how slow DVD's are to read the large amount of RAM that will need to be filled up. Loading times are already long enough.

I'd agree and disagree with that one. Nintendo's still trying to force the issue of keeping the media size small so developers use it conservatively. When I think of all the gamecube games I have, I can't think of a single one with any loading time issues whatsoever. Nintendo's forcing developers to keep their game data compressed and only use what's necessary.

Prehaps giving too large of a media size is part of the problem. I mean, if I give someone 8 gigs to dump textures and maps into, do you really think they're going to bother to compress/re-use anything? So that means there's going to be a lot more data getting accessed on that disc all the time that isn't necessary (which explains some of the xbox and ps2 load times on games). Edit: I should have mentioned as well that there's only so much RAM on those consoles, but far more capacity on the media, hence the loading issue. Whereas the NGC has less RAM, but on a system memory to media size ratio, it's better off.

Though overall I think there's benefits and negatives to both types of game media. Unfortunately I can't trust a developer to properly use all the space given on a DVD, they just waste it. At the same time, Nintendo is forcing a developer to be stingy usually means far less voice acting/movies in games.

So who's to take the blame for loading times? Developers or the console manufacturers?

Thoughts?

[sTubbs]

Don't forget how Tiny the cube (without it's many attachments) is to the Xbox and PS2 (original). Very tiny and lightweight by comparison, with hardware better than the PS2 and still good enough to be in the same graphics generation as the Xbox. I don't doubt they'll be able to do it. Their PR rep made the claim publicly, so I'm sure they've actually seen some running prototypes at this point.

First off, 3 DVD cases is a hell of a lot smaller than the GameCube. The GC is 160 cubic inches. Three DVD cases are 60 cubic inches. So, the Revolution is going to be far less than half the size of the GC.

Secondly, the GC was running at 485 mHz. To put it bluntly, you could keep that cool enough by blowing on it. Fast forward to the 360 which has 3 cores, each running at over 6 times the power of the GC - and that is not even considering the massively improved video card power and increased RAM. Some experts have already raised concerns that the 360 might run into cooling problems, and it is in a box many times the size of the proposed Revolution. Even if the Revolution came out with the power of a current gaming PC, it still could not be properly cooled in a box that size with currently available methods.

I do not doubt that Nintendo has thought this through, I just do not see how they can make the Revolution as beastly as the 360. I sincerely hope that they have found a way, however, as the new technology needed would be a huge boost to gaming in general, as cooling is one of the biggest foreseeable problems as systems become more powerful.

[TrackZero]

First off, 3 DVD cases is a hell of a lot smaller than the GameCube. The GC is 160 cubic inches. Three DVD cases are 60 cubic inches. So, the Revolution is going to be far less than half the size of the GC.

Secondly, the GC was running at 485 mHz. To put it bluntly, you could keep that cool enough by blowing on it. Fast forward to the 360 which has 3 cores, each running at over 6 times the power of the GC. Some experts have already raised concerns that the 360 might run into cooling problems, and it is in a box many times the size of the proposed Revolution. Even if the Revolution came out with the power of a current gaming PC, it still could not be cooled in a box that size with currently available methods.

I do not doubt that Nintendo has thought this through, I just do not see how they can make the Revolution as beastly as the 360. I sincerely hope that they have found a way, however, as the new technology needed would be a huge boost to gaming in general, as cooling is one of the biggest foreseeable problems as systems become more powerful.


Maybe the revolution is that it's cooling system somehow keeps it just above absolute zero? ;)

[sTubbs]

Maybe the revolution is that it's cooling system somehow keeps it just above absolute zero? ;)

That is exactly what I thought after I completed my post, but when I went back to edit that thought in, you had already spoken it. If Nintendo does indeed manage to pull of true next generation power in a box that size, it would indeed be a revolution. But while a tiny console with beastly power would be a slick and cool addition to the gaming world, I hope that is not all Nintendo is planning. Quite honestly, I would not care if consoles were twice the size that they currently are as long as quality games continued to come out. I am very intrigued by what Nintendo could have up its sleeve with this new machine.

[bobbler]

You seem to forget DTR laptops are just as tall as the Revolution will be and can run P4s which create as much heat as the console CPUs, regardless of being 3.2ghz tricores. Ghz don't really equate to heat, its core complexity/voltage/amps/thermal seapage/etc that cause the heat. You can have a very cool cpu that can run at 2ghz that takes 5watts and barely requires a heatsink the size of a quarter. The cores going into the consoles are less 'complex' and probably designed with thermals in mind.

Its just about efficient use of heatpipes and blower fans instead of the vertical fans, its not unheard of.

[if76]

Quite honestly, I would not care if consoles were twice the size that they currently are as long as quality games continued to come out. I am very intrigued by what Nintendo could have up its sleeve with this new machine.

I'm glad someone said this. I really don't know what the big deal is about console size. Ok I understand that Japanese people live in small houses, but it's not like the xbox is gonna take up a whole closet. I couldn't ever imagine the size of a machine having any place in my decision to buy (unless it's portable).

[Kagger]

Is revolution coming out next Christmas?

[Draft]

Its just about efficient use of heatpipes and blower fans instead of the vertical fans, its not unheard of.Yes, a fast dual (or more) core CPU with a modern graphic card (ie- faster than a 6800 or X800XL) in a case the size of a mac mini is unheard of.

[sTubbs]

Is revolution coming out next Christmas?

Well, this article is pointing to the middle of next year, but that is probably for Japan. So, yeah, I would expect it late fall / early winter 2006 elsewhere.

[mkelehan]

Nintendo has always hated loading times, they'll of worked out something.

They have, and they've been great about it. Think of all the load times in first-party GC games. Donkey Kong Jungle Beat is the last one I played, and it has NO load times. Smash Bros. has next to none (literally none if you set the stage to random), Mario and Zelda don't have any... and the DVD drive in the Rev will certainly be faster than the GC one, just by virtue of being released a few years later. Add in the fact that physically larger discs equals faster load times (data written closer to the edge loads faster), and I think we're in a good place.

I just hope Nintendo shows the thing off next week...

[bobbler]

Yes, a fast dual (or more) core CPU with a modern graphic card (ie- faster than a 6800 or X800XL) in a case the size of a mac mini is unheard of.

You don't seem to be understanding this. You can't compare the CPUs in PCs to the stuff going into the consoles -- they are made with the size of the box in mind and they are far less complex than a dual core athlon 64 or p4 (they will suck up less juice, creating less heat). (for example, the '9' cores of the Cell require the same amount of transistors as a dual core athlon 64). The power requirements for the GPUs are probably no worse than that of a 6800 or x800XT (90nm vs 130 helps).

Its not some miracle of modern science here folks...

I have a feeling the dvd case example was mearly for the height, and not directly for the entire size, though.

[mister_slim]

Maybe the revolution is that it's cooling system somehow keeps it just above absolute zero? ;)
The Revolution is superconductors! Nintendo is geniuses!

That would be awesome though.

[Draft]

You don't seem to be understanding this. You can't compare the CPUs in PCs to the stuff going into the consoles -- they are made with the size of the box in mind and they are far less complex than a dual core athlon 64 or p4 (they will suck up less juice, creating less heat). (for example, the '9' cores of the Cell require the same amount of transistors as a dual core athlon 64). The power requirements for the GPUs are probably no worse than that of a 6800 or x800XT (90nm vs 130 helps).

Its not some miracle of modern science here folks...

I have a feeling the dvd case example was mearly for the height, and not directly for the entire size, though.I think I understand it as well as you do, unless you're some sort of engineer. And I'm not saying it's a miracle. I am saying, at this point in the history of technology, no one's crammed that much fast gear into a teeny tiny case.

[bobbler]

no one's crammed that much fast gear into a teeny tiny case.

I'll give you that. But a lot of that has to do with the fact that this hardware is new -- there will be dual core laptops in the next 6 months, etc.

It will be impressive, but I think any solid PC company (dell, apple, sony, etc -- any company that makes small (fast) laptops), with that goal in mind, could do the same with the parts.

Someone else mentioned about the size being sort of moot, and after thinking about it for a bit, I entirely agree. I don't really understand why nintendo is really trying to make them smaller -- as long as the xbox1 stays about the biggest size they get (which wasn't that huge, really), size doesn't really seem like that big of deal.

[fushi]

Concerning size... I honestly admit, that I enjoy if the console and it's controllers are in proportion. The PSTwo looks weirder to me than the original PS2.

[bapenguin]

Hmm...think Laptops. They are pretty thin, so it is possible. You won't get the same kind of high end graphics...but maybe engineering figured something out.

[Jetherik]

There is a new technology for hard drives that is coming out. Check out the June issue of Maximum PC page 19 that discusses the new hard drive tech. Basically Hitachi and Toshiba have aligned the magnetic particles perpendicular, instead of horizontal. Hard drives can become smaller, and have larger storage capacity at the same time. Maybe they plan on using similar tech.

[B_Money]

You seem to forget DTR laptops are just as tall as the Revolution will be and can run P4s which create as much heat as the console CPUs, regardless of being 3.2ghz tricores. Ghz don't really equate to heat, its core complexity/voltage/amps/thermal seapage/etc that cause the heat. You can have a very cool cpu that can run at 2ghz that takes 5watts and barely requires a heatsink the size of a quarter. The cores going into the consoles are less 'complex' and probably designed with thermals in mind.

Its just about efficient use of heatpipes and blower fans instead of the vertical fans, its not unheard of.

My guess would be liquid cooled, either with water or with something with better thermal properties.

[Heretic Machine]

I'm glad someone said this. I really don't know what the big deal is about console size. Ok I understand that Japanese people live in small houses, but it's not like the xbox is gonna take up a whole closet. I couldn't ever imagine the size of a machine having any place in my decision to buy (unless it's portable).

I've always felt exactly the same. It's just more dumb ass reasons fanboys can come up with to hate the XBOX, and it's that kind of ridiculous crap that makes me hate the console community today.

[dr_wily]

Maybe the revolution is that it's cooling system somehow keeps it just above absolute zero?

--heh and if you drop it itll friggin explode in a wash of liquid nitrogen and getcha like the t-1000