PS3 Backwards Compatibility Problems [Archive]

bapenguin

11-13-2006, 07:16 AM

While no where near as bad as the Xbox 360 "backwards compatibility" it looks like the Playstation 3 isn't without fault. IGN is reporting (http://ps3.ign.com/articles/745/745506p1.html) that somewhere around 200 PS2 titles are having issues on the PS3.Japan's Cnet.com reports backwards compatibility problems for over 196 PlayStation 2 titles. This figure counts multiple versions of the same game (budget versions, limited editions, etc.) as a single entity and includes the full range of problems, from simple sound issues to more dramatic freezing issues.

In response to these issues, Sony's PR department pointed out that it, from the start, expected backwards compatibility to be less than 100%. It was also good enough to point out that some people can put up with playing games that lack sound.

At least they can fix this. When was the last time we got a 360 BC update? I guess they finished overdelivering on that.

Heretic Machine

11-13-2006, 07:17 AM

I'm curious as to which games are having problems.

torrefaction

11-13-2006, 07:20 AM

Honestly, the BC update really wasn't that long ago. Especially considering they delivered more than usual last time. I think it's a bit early to complain about the lack of another update, personally.

Gorvi

11-13-2006, 07:20 AM

It'd be nice to see what the list of games that aren't working is. Also, maybe an actual reason why they're not working.

Nite_Moogle

11-13-2006, 07:21 AM

Wasn't Sony just putting a copy of the PS2 chip on the system board until they had their software emulation straightened out?

Wyrm

11-13-2006, 07:22 AM

Regardless of opinions on BC, why the hell can't Sony just say "we're sorry and it's being worked on."? Why do they have to be so god damned arrogant and pretentious?

fitbabits

11-13-2006, 07:22 AM

I'm curious as to which games are having problems.
GT4, Tekken 5, Onimusha: Dawn of Dreams, Devil May Cry and Silent Hill 2 are some of the bigger games to experience problems, although the list will shrink as Sony releases updates for the PS3 that fix any reported issues. Source - C & VG (http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=149064?cid=OTC-RSS&attr=CVG-General-RSS).
The cynical side of me wants to think that GT4 is not working on purpose, thereby 'forcing' people to stump up for GT HD!

jeffool

11-13-2006, 07:23 AM

I think it's a bit early to complain about the lack of another update, personally.It's never to early to complain about lack of Psychonauts or Spidey 2!

Roc Ingersol

11-13-2006, 07:26 AM

Seriously.
Psychonauts, SM2 and D&D Heroes are the only games I fire up my original xbox for.

soco

11-13-2006, 07:27 AM

although there are quite a few on Sony's list that crash, most of them are minor issues like sound problems, skipping video, etc. some other games don't work because of peripheral issues, such has any HDD game (FFXI) and Guitar Hero 1/2 (no PS button on guitar, which could easily be corrected by Sony)

at least Sony let's people try the games instead of making people wait until they lock it (which starts all sorts of conspiracy theories).

Serapth

11-13-2006, 07:28 AM

In response to these issues, Sony's PR department pointed out that it, from the start, expected backwards compatibility to be less than 100%.

Funny... I never remembered hearing it like this in the past.

Maybe it was said in the 4th dimension, which since I dont have a PS3, I cant access.

51|RandoM

11-13-2006, 07:30 AM

Regardless of opinions on BC, why the hell can't Sony just say "we're sorry and it's being worked on."? Why do they have to be so god damned arrogant and pretentious?

...if you read arrogant and pretentious out of what their PR rep said you really need to lighten up.

silv

11-13-2006, 07:32 AM

Given that a good portion of the BC is being done *in hardware* it may be harder to fix than a simple software bug.

Blade

11-13-2006, 07:33 AM

The only game I've tried with BC on my X360 is Tony Hawk's Underground 2.

And it had oodles of slowdown not present when running on the original system.

rjcc

11-13-2006, 07:39 AM

At least they can fix this. When was the last time we got a 360 BC update? I guess they finished overdelivering on that.

It wasn't that long ago, we are due for another one right about now based on when they've been coming out, but its not like its been six months or something.

bapenguin

11-13-2006, 07:40 AM

...if you read arrogant and pretentious out of what their PR rep said you really need to lighten up.

Actually IGN said the same thing. (that it was an arrogant response)

Skampy

11-13-2006, 07:41 AM

BIG SUPRISE!, PS2 had its fair share of problems playing PS1 games. Its no suprise that PS3 is having trouble with PS2 games. Perfect Backwards compatibility is a dream that simply won't happen ever. Microsofts Backwards compatibility just makes me more angry than anything. There is a limited list of xbox games that run on 360 and even some of them run like garbage. I played san andreas on 360 and the game ran and looked like poopoo. The only possible good alternative is the Wii arcade although that could fail miserably also. Who are the winners here? nobody nuff said.

Kamalot

11-13-2006, 07:45 AM

Sony's PR department pointed out that it, from the start, expected backwards compatibility to be less than 100%. Oh really? I seem to remember Sony saying that PS3 would be 100% backwards compatible. In fact, they ended up throwing mud at Microsoft saying something to the effect of, 'if you can do backwards compatibility right, then don't do it at all.'

IGN reports that the PS3 will be "100% backwards compatible," and that "all legacy titles played on the system will be displayed at high-definition resolutions," similar to the Xbox 360's BC upscaling (http://www.joystiq.com/2006/03/15/ps3-press-conference-it-begins/)Why am I not shocked to find that around 200 games don't work?

Edit: I love how they suggest users simply play games without sound. What are we supposed to do, use the non-existent custom soundtrack function of the PS3?

51|RandoM

11-13-2006, 07:46 AM

Actually IGN said the same thing. (that it was an arrogant response)

Guess that settles it then, since IGN is always right. :p

Mdot23

11-13-2006, 07:49 AM

am i the only one who doesn't really care about BC?

Balthasar

11-13-2006, 07:49 AM

Actually IGN said the same thing. (that it was an arrogant response)
To be fair, the only inference we could have that the response to the BC issue was arrogant was the IGN paraphrasing of the statement. Not like it should matter anyway. The PR rep could have said "we're so sorry out BC isn't 100% perfect forgive us pretty please?" and it wouldn't change the fact that some of these games aren't working properly.

51|RandoM

11-13-2006, 07:49 AM

Why am I not shocked to find that around 200 games don't work?

because anybody with realistic expectations would expect some very small percentage of the entire catalog to not work 100% correctly, just as Sony stated a looooong time ago?

IrishWhiskey

11-13-2006, 07:49 AM

Posted by Skampy
I played san andreas on 360 and the game ran and looked like poopoo.

"Poopoo"? Really? Thats what you're going with???

Johan

11-13-2006, 07:51 AM

Backwards compatibility is bullshit on all the systems...because it's not 100%, and many games have issues. The 360 was/is especially egregious in this regard, as far as I'm concerned, but all three systems have issues with BC and are not playing it straight with consumers.

Want 100% backwards compatibility? Buy an old system....or emulate on your pc....or download old games which are (or will be) digitally distributed.

I'm still waiting for more BC titles on the 360....but I'm not holding my breath; just my nostrils. :(

anakin876

11-13-2006, 07:54 AM

It (sony PR) was also good enough to point out that some people can put up with playing games that lack sound.

Ha ha ha. Even Pong had sound! Sure, some people can put up with playing games without sound - them and the deaf people will sure enjoy BC on the PS3. Like Kamalot posted - Sony promised 100% BC and upscaling for everything - and that's been one of the points brought up time and again by the fanboys in their battles. It sounds to me like the hype machine is breaking down - now that release is upon us the realities of how consoles work are seeping in. I actually heard a radio commercial saturday promising "movie like" graphics from the PS3....which is oddly reminiscient of what Sony claimed for the PS2 back before it came out.
Good times.

EternalGamer

11-13-2006, 07:55 AM

I'll be patient. But this better be fixed within the first six months. This is the whole reason I sold my PS2.

Johan

11-13-2006, 07:59 AM

I'll be patient. But this better be fixed within the first six months. This is the whole reason I sold my PS2.

Might want to buy it back...

I think we are forever doomed to have stacks of old consoles around for the titles we hang onto (I have an N64 and an original Xbrick).

IrishWhiskey

11-13-2006, 08:04 AM

Ultimately this problem is understandable, and the 360 certainly has problems of its own.

But it feels like there was supposed to be a trade off. The 360 has limited compatibility, but its games get upscaling and anti-aliasing and look better in HD. The PS3 has worse looking PS2 games, but full compatibility. Its the hardware versus software emulation tradeoff. Yet now Sony has gone from upconverting and promises of nearly full compatibility, to neither. All I really care about is GH2. That better get that one fixed fast.

I wonder if the Wii will be the only fully backward compatible system. I'm referring to Gamecube games, although you could look at the Virtual Arcade as proof that they are well ahead of their competition.

Reanimated

11-13-2006, 08:06 AM

That's a shitload of games. And it doesn't even do upscaling for old games like the 360 does, despite the fact that sony originally promised that it would.

bapenguin

11-13-2006, 08:11 AM

Remember...the whole BC thing is very new to consoles. Really the PS2 was the first one to do it in a LONG time.

51|RandoM

11-13-2006, 08:14 AM

That's a shitload of games. And it doesn't even do upscaling for old games like the 360 does, despite the fact that sony originally promised that it would.

Shitload is relative. Are you aware how many titles in total have been created for the PS2? Of those 200, many are duplicates of the same title, and many of them are still playable with only minor glitching.

:p

Klunka

11-13-2006, 08:15 AM

Remember...the whole BC thing is very new to consoles. Really the PS2 was the first one to do it in a LONG time.

my new PC plays all my old PC games perfectly

sorry, had to do that

The system hasn't been released to the public a week yet and we're already concerned over backwards compatibility. Give it some time, they'll work out a lot of the kinks. There are much more pressing PS3 issues to be had.

IrishWhiskey

11-13-2006, 08:16 AM

My first experience with BC was with the Game Boy. When they upgraded to smaller, more powerful systems, even new games cartridges with color, they made sure that your old toaster size Game Boys Tetris Cart would still work.

Even when they moved to the SP and DS, it was all good. Generations of products with full BC. This is why I'm giving props to Nintendo on this issue, and am guessing the Wii won't have the same problems with Cube compatibility.

.

Serapth

11-13-2006, 08:20 AM

http://greatdealssoftware.stores.yahoo.net/pl.html

PS:T for 17.96$. Cheapest deal I could find on the net ( thanks to froogle ).

JediSanf

11-13-2006, 08:22 AM

Serapth

11-13-2006, 08:27 AM

So, just for the record. 266 total working games on the 360 is better than 196 PS2 games that don't work?

Just a small point, but shouldnt that read "196 PS2 games that don't work so far?

Food Nipple

11-13-2006, 08:29 AM

I heard that the PS2 hardware that Sony put into the PS3 is the same as the chips in the slim PS2, which cannot play Tekken 5 etc. I think that the list of games that has issues on the PS3 is the same as the list that has issues playing in a slimline PS2.

Morangie

11-13-2006, 08:29 AM

...if you read arrogant and pretentious out of what their PR rep said you really need to lighten up.
[Sony PR] was also good enough to point out that some people can put up with playing games that lack sound.
What do they have to do to finally break through your denial? Only the most blinded fanboy can say Sony aren't arrogant.

Shitload is relative. Are you aware how many titles in total have been created for the PS2? Of those 200, many are duplicates of the same title, and many of them are still playable with only minor glitching.
This figure counts multiple versions of the same game (budget versions, limited editions, etc.) as a single entity

51|RandoM

11-13-2006, 08:30 AM

my new PC plays all my old PC games perfectly

sorry, had to do that

There are any number of old PC games that won't play perfectly, or at all on new PC systems, you just don't play any of them.

Johan

11-13-2006, 08:31 AM

http://greatdealssoftware.stores.yahoo.net/pl.html

PS:T for 17.96$. Cheapest deal I could find on the net ( thanks to froogle ).

Hey...thanks for the info...are you in the right thread with this? ;)

51|RandoM

11-13-2006, 08:31 AM

What do they have to do to finally break through your denial? Only the most blinded fanboy can say Sony aren't arrogant.

I didn't say they weren't arrogant. I said their response wasn't arrogant. Only the most blinded sony-hater can't tell the difference.

Furthermore, I don't tend to anthropomorphosize(sp?) business entities. They might have an arrogant manager, or managers, or CEO, or whatever, but I wouldn't say the entire company itself is arrogant.

DangerousDaze

11-13-2006, 08:34 AM

Oh really? I seem to remember Sony saying that PS3 would be 100% backwards compatible. In fact, they ended up throwing mud at Microsoft saying something to the effect of, 'if you can do backwards compatibility right, then don't do it at all.'

Why am I not shocked to find that around 200 games don't work?

Edit: I love how they suggest users simply play games without sound. What are we supposed to do, use the non-existent custom soundtrack function of the PS3?
I see. So IGN say X=true, then later they say "X=false" and the blame lies with Sony. Nice logic, Mr. Spock.

Sony may have said they were 100% BC (I'm not ruling it out) but I can't find a statement to that effect, and since the link you gave us eventually points to a blank IGN page it doesn't look like you can either.

What I did find on IGN was this (http://uk.ps3.ign.com/articles/624/624605p1.html) (June, 05):Backwards compatibility is also on the cards in the latest interview. Referring to the means of backwards compatibility used in the PS3, Kutaragi reveals, "We use a combination of hardware and software." While Kutaragi won't specify what hardware components are being brought over from the PS2 to the PS3 (the specs don't seem to reveal anything), he hints that some hardware solutions were required in order to max out compatibility due to the fact that some PS2 games do things with the hardware that are not theoretically possible.Wherever software is involved there's going to be difficulties. The 100% quote was about Microsoft. Sony said that MS will be effectively killing the XBOX if the X360 comes out with less than 100% compatibility. I disagree with that statement, btw, but I wanted to add it for balance purposes.

DD

Morangie

11-13-2006, 08:38 AM

I didn't say they weren't arrogant. I said their response wasn't arrogant. Only the most blinded sony-hater can't tell the difference.
Saying people wouldn't mind playing the games without sound isn't arrogant? They must be the same people who would buy the PS3 even if it didn't have any games available.

Venkman

11-13-2006, 08:39 AM

B.C. is one of those things that everyone bitches about, but nobody uses nearly as much as they say they do. When I get an Xbox 360, I'll be getting Xbox 360 games. Same for a PS3. Why buy a new system to play your old games? Damn.

51|RandoM

11-13-2006, 08:43 AM

Saying people wouldn't mind playing the games without sound isn't arrogant? They must be the same people who would buy the PS3 even if it didn't have any games available.

It isn't arrogant at all. There are plenty of people who game without the game sounds. If I had a dollar for every person I played CS with who didn't hear me sneaking up behind them because they were listening to the latest album, I'd have a lot less kills in CS.

They're just pointing out that some of the problem games are still playable.

I guess I'll just chalk this up to half empty/half full.

Yeti2005

11-13-2006, 09:11 AM

It isn't arrogant at all. There are plenty of people who game without the game sounds. If I had a dollar for every person I played CS with who didn't hear me sneaking up behind them because they were listening to the latest album, I'd have a lot less kills in CS.

They're just pointing out that some of the problem games are still playable.

I guess I'll just chalk this up to half empty/half full.

I think that's one of the most funny posts I've read in a long time. You should really work in PR / Marketing because you have a knack for spin.

Kamalot

11-13-2006, 09:12 AM

Of those 200, many are duplicates of the same titleAccording to the article, none.

This figure counts multiple versions of the same game (budget versions, limited editions, etc.) as a single entity

This means that multiple versions of a game are counted as 1 out of the list of 200 incompatible games.

Kamalot

11-13-2006, 09:14 AM

It isn't arrogant at all. There are plenty of people who game without the game sounds.
This is very funny. Could you also write up a version of your response as it would appear if Microsoft or Nintendo suggested you play older games without sound?

Serapth

11-13-2006, 09:16 AM

It isn't arrogant at all. There are plenty of people who game without the game sounds. If I had a dollar for every person I played CS with who didn't hear me sneaking up behind them because they were listening to the latest album, I'd have a lot less kills in CS.

They're just pointing out that some of the problem games are still playable.

I guess I'll just chalk this up to half empty/half full.

WOW man, just wow.

Kind of thing I expect from the Eran Hawke's of the world, not from you.

Kamalot

11-13-2006, 09:18 AM

WOW man, just wow.

Kind of thing I expect from the Eran Hawke's of the world, not from you.
Now, that is humor.

Eran one day said something along the lines of, 'if you believe something you make it true.' :D

Klunka

11-13-2006, 09:22 AM

There are any number of old PC games that won't play perfectly, or at all on new PC systems, you just don't play any of them.

True, but there are ways to make nearly anything work on the PC that anyone can do without add-ons or waiting for patches. Besides, there's not nearly enough PC fanboy-ism on this site!

QueeG-Servo

11-13-2006, 09:24 AM

Backwards Compatability = Non-issue for me.

Kamalot

11-13-2006, 09:24 AM

I see. So IGN say X=true, then later they say "X=false" and the blame lies with Sony.
It does look like IGN took down the page. Considering the entire Joystiq article was comprised of information coming from other sites that were present at a Sony press event, it is highly unlikely that someone fabricated the whole thing. Here's what I've been able to dig up...

Harrison also revealed that the PlayStation 3 will be fully backwards-compatible from the start. Its worldwide launch in November -- which will include Australia -- will be supported by one million units available per month. (http://play.tm/wire/click/842248)

Edit:

Here's another one.Concerning backwards compatibility, Harrison said that PSOne and PS2 games will in fact see "optimizations" when played on the PS3, but details on exactly what those are will need to wait until later. (http://ps3.ign.com/articles/697/697725p1.html)

The games are optimized to have no sound. :D

deckard47

11-13-2006, 09:54 AM

Backwards compatibility is key for me, as I've never owned a PS2. Do any of you know where we can get the full list of games that don't work, instead of a partial list?

agentgray

11-13-2006, 10:06 AM

I'm curious as to which games are having problems.
All the ones that will be availabe for download?

Capn Crunch

11-13-2006, 10:49 AM

On the one hand I don't think that 200 games out of the huge library of PS2 games is that much, especially considering that a lot of these will be wacky Japanese dating sim games that no one here has ever heard about. (Strawberry Panic! Strawberry panic! (The first limited edition), anyone?)

On the other hand, some of the games on the list are surprising. I haven't looked through the entire list yet, but here are a few that surprised me so far.
God of War
Front Mission (all)
.Hack
God Hand
Resident Evil (many)

Hopefully they will prioritize games like these. I've also noticed that a lot of games that aren't working are Best of collections that run under emulation themselves (like Sega Ages, Koei collection, etc.) so it's no biggie there. Anyway, take care all.

Kelegacy

11-13-2006, 10:53 AM

rein

11-13-2006, 11:22 AM

I'm a bit disappointed that there this many games on the list. I hope they can find a fix for some of them since I do like the backward compatibility part of the system. I had planned to trade in my PS2, but I guess I will keep it a bit longer.

Kamalot

11-13-2006, 11:44 AM

Are we going to have another forum crackdown on trolls soon? Look at Kamalot's posting history and tell me he's not one. Subscriber or not. Every damn Sony thread this site creates, he's there in full force.

He's on my block list but idiots keep quoting (feeding) him, so I have to endure his crap evermore.
If you wish to discuss the contents of my posts, I'd be happy to talk to you. If you wish to ignore me, but then speak ill of me, then one has to wonder who the troll really is.

Johan

11-13-2006, 11:52 AM

If you wish to discuss the contents of my posts, I'd be happy to talk to you. If you wish to ignore me, but then speak ill of me, then one has to wonder who the troll really is.

This merits quoting, so ALL can see it!

If you're going to ignore someone...then IGNORE THEM; don't rip 'em and keep 'em blocked. Block them and ignore them. If others quote them, tough! Block the whole damn site, then!

Hemalin

11-13-2006, 11:55 AM

So PS3 still has better BC than the 360 has after a year? Good enough for me.

Johan

11-13-2006, 11:57 AM

So PS3 still has better BC than the 360 has after a year? Good enough for me.

If better means a larger percentage of BC titles from their previous library, then I would absolutely agree with you.

Kelegacy

11-13-2006, 12:03 PM

This merits quoting, so ALL can see it!

If you're going to ignore someone...then IGNORE THEM; don't rip 'em and keep 'em blocked. Block them and ignore them. If others quote them, tough! Block the whole damn site, then!

What would I discuss with him, Johan? Everything I've wanted to say, I have. He knows how I feel about his posts, and he knows he is guilty of it all. He's not going to change.

He ruins threads, pure and simple. That's why he's blocked. He does little else but troll Sony threads. And when he's called on it he acts like he's surprised. "Who, me?"

Since blocking him my own posts have been much better. But it still makes me angry when people quote him and I see him doing his patented Sony attacks in yet another thread. He's a grown man, why can't he act that way?

Bottom line: Don't feed the trolls. Kamalot hates Sony, so be it. Don't pay him any heed, because he's not going to change. What he says is irrelevant and is only uttered out of his perpetual Sony apathy.

Kamalot

11-13-2006, 12:09 PM

What would I discuss with him, Johan? Everything I've wanted to say, I have. He knows how I feel about his posts, and he knows he is guilty of it all. He's not going to change.

He ruins threads, pure and simple. That's why he's blocked. He does little else but troll Sony threads. And when he's called on it he acts like he's surprised. "Who, me?"

Since blocking him my own posts have been much better. But it still makes me angry when people quote him and I see him doing his patented Sony attacks in yet another thread. He's a grown man, why can't he act that way?

Bottom line: Don't feed the trolls. Kamalot hates Sony, so be it. Don't pay him any heed, because he's not going to change. What he says is irrelevant and is only uttered out of his perpetual Sony apathy.
I am always willing to debate ideas.

My posts have been on-topic. Stomping your feet, calling names and pointing fingers because you don't like me, or my views, isn't a good way to convince me of your argument. It also does nothing to belittle me, but boy-oh-boy, the things it does for your image.

EternalGamer

11-13-2006, 12:10 PM

Serapth

11-13-2006, 12:14 PM

Balthasar

11-13-2006, 12:15 PM

It does look like IGN took down the page. Considering the entire Joystiq article was comprised of information coming from other sites that were present at a Sony press event, it is highly unlikely that someone fabricated the whole thing. Here's what I've been able to dig up...
Fully backwards-compatible does not mean that every game will work on it perfectly. I think everyone here at EA who posts actively knows this, so trying to construe this comment as anything but seems disingenuous.

The games are optimized to have no sound. :D
If that's not trolling, I don't know what is.

Johan

11-13-2006, 12:16 PM

Hopefully, in several months, when all the systems are readily available and out there...hopefully some of the insanity will subside.

I'm also not a big fan of blocking, because others will invariably quote people, and it is frustrating at that point. I had Mike Jones, Chang3, and some other whosit blocked at one point or another, but gave up as they were always quoted. Plus, if I wanted to respond to them, I had to unblock them. It just didn't work.

Maybe EternalGamer has the best idea...and it will hopefully be better in several months.

Hey pot...

You shouldn't involve yourself with pot...it's illegal! ;)

Everyone knows about you Canadians and your genetically-modified, super-strengthened BC weed...intended to weaken America for your eventual takeover of our beer, weed, timber, coal and video game industries! ;)

Kamalot

11-13-2006, 12:29 PM

Fully backwards-compatible does not mean that every game will work on it perfectly. I think everyone here at EA who posts actively knows this, so trying to construe this comment as anything but seems disingenuous.Here is another example of IGN's 100% comment.

With E3 approaching, Sony changed their tact by informing us that the PS3 would be 100% backwards compatible - IGN reported this news straight from the PS3 conference. (http://gaming.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=5402)At some point, someone from Sony at an official press event told IGN that PS3 would be 100% backwards compatible. It was reported on several sites, as evidenced previously. Lots of people read IGN so the expectation was set.

Honestly, it does not matter, because it never came true. Just like in the same press event we were told about a worldwide launch in November, which included Europe and Australia. That never came true either.

If that's not trolling, I don't know what is.It was a joke. That's why it came with one of these... :D

How can anyone think that playing without sound is an option, unless they are hearing-impaired to begin with. I'd still like to see people's reactions if Microsoft announced backwards compatibility for original Xbox games, such as Panzer Dragoon Orta, without sound. Or maybe Nintendo lets you download Virtual Console games, but who needed to hear that Mario theme song...again!

It is downright COMICAL!

BlackPete

11-13-2006, 12:42 PM

How can anyone think that playing without sound is an option, unless they are hearing-impaired to begin with. I'd still like to see people's reactions if Microsoft announced backwards compatibility for original Xbox games, such as Panzer Dragoon Orta, without sound. etc...

I just wanted to say that I'm hearing impaired and even I agree with that -- while I don't have perfect hearing I still enjoy sound and music in games. Especially games with deep bass.

I've known deaf people without a trace of hearing who STILL cranks up the subwoofer, because they enjoy the vibrations the bass sends out -- it feels more immersive that way, even if they can't hear it. I must say that I'm guilty of the same thing ;) (Hands up everyone who cranks up the volume during Gears of War...)

No matter how you spin it, saying that people don't mind games without sound is just plain moronic.

Kamalot

11-13-2006, 12:44 PM

I just wanted to say that I'm hearing impaired and even I agree with that -- while I don't have perfect hearing I still enjoy sound and music in games. Especially games with deep bass.

No matter how you spin it, saying that people don't mind games without sound is just plain moronic.
You bring up some interesting thoughts concerning turning up the bass. How will the hearing-impared be affected by the lack of rumble in the PS3?

Kelegacy

11-13-2006, 12:55 PM

I try not to respond to the Sony news on this site very often anymore, Kel, you should have already learned better too.

Sony has been doing enough stupid things on their own to warrant criticism without people exagerating it, but exagerate they do, nonetheless. The pile on in any Sony related topic here is ridiculious and if Kamalot doesn't start it, I guarantee you someone else here would, so it is not just him. Sometimes it gets the better of me also, but it is best to just ignore the Sony related threads altogether and go to a different website (like even Neogaf or 1up).

Are you endorsing going to other sites to get better Playstation coverage?

I have no problem with Sony crap, because I know they're getting what they deserve on a certain level. And I've had my share of being a broken record on things 360 game related (though GoW has satiated my hunger for now). But to just slam for the sake of slamming, and to do so all the time? That's called trolling. If I go into a 360 thread about...oh, I don't know--Viva Pinata--and say, "The 360 sucks." Well, that's on topic because it's about the 360, but it does NOTHING to further the forum conversation. I've intentionally disrupted the entire thread by spouting off something to get others riled up. That's Kamalot's shtick. He even tries to be coy by posting Sony news that is thinly veiled (like the Genji review--although I didn't see him attempt to post the IGN Resistance review :rolleyes: ). I can tolerate people like Reanimated and gang, because their infrequent enough when compared to trolls as a whole (lately, anyway). But Kamalot...I don't hate him, I just despise his posting habits. And his hypocrisy. For instance, he makes fun how ugly a PS3 game is while heralding something far less graphical on the Wii. Makes no sense to me. Again, he might be a good person capable of decent conversation, but it's hard to fathom based on his incessant Sony bashing.

Sony deserves criticism, just as every company who does something stupid should, but every stinking thread? It's tiring. Heck, he even makes Sony jabs in threads that have nothing to do with Sony. Does this man talk about anything but Pokemon and how bad Sony is?

I'm normally anti-censorship, but Kamalot is the exception to the rule. I already know what he's going to say just by the Sony thread(s) of the day. When you're become that predictable, it says a lot about your post integrity.

BlackPete

11-13-2006, 12:58 PM

You bring up some interesting thoughts concerning turning up the bass. How will the hearing-impared be affected by the lack of rumble in the PS3?

Heh to be honest I don't think that's an issue specific to hard-of-hearing or deaf people; it's one that affects everyone in general. I enjoy rumble when it's properly used. I don't enjoy it when it's used all-the-friggin-time like in Halo.

Just about the only thing that I can think of that would make a difference is this: Game designers may focus more on audio cues (little beeping if you get close to something), instead of using the rumble (like in Zelda) to indicate that you're near something important. Deaf/hard-of-hearing people may have trouble with those type of games (I know that I sometimes have trouble in games like, oh, Thief or System Shock, etc...)

Beyond that... it's pretty much a "shrug" really.

torrefaction

11-13-2006, 01:33 PM

Heh to be honest I don't think that's an issue specific to hard-of-hearing or deaf people; it's one that affects everyone in general. I enjoy rumble when it's properly used. I don't enjoy it when it's used all-the-friggin-time like in Halo.

Just about the only thing that I can think of that would make a difference is this: Game designers may focus more on audio cues (little beeping if you get close to something), instead of using the rumble (like in Zelda) to indicate that you're near something important. Deaf/hard-of-hearing people may have trouble with those type of games (I know that I sometimes have trouble in games like, oh, Thief or System Shock, etc...)

Beyond that... it's pretty much a "shrug" really.

Actually, I really think this is a bigger deal than I initially thought. It was when I was playing Saints Row multiplayer. There's no rumble when you get hit, just some red on the screen. If you're focused on aiming, you may not notice it. It really ended up seeming like a big deal to me, and bothered me endlessly.

BlackPete

11-13-2006, 02:07 PM

Actually, I really think this is a bigger deal than I initially thought. It was when I was playing Saints Row multiplayer. There's no rumble when you get hit, just some red on the screen. If you're focused on aiming, you may not notice it. It really ended up seeming like a big deal to me, and bothered me endlessly.

Hmm that's a good point.

Now that I think about it... I did notice that in PC FPS games, quite often I don't realize how close to death I really am. In console games, the controller would slowly pulsate like a heartbeat when you reach critical level. I notice that a lot more than some red tint on the screen.

I'm basically a believer in the "more info = good" mantra as long as it's meaningful. That's a pretty good example of how rumble (as well as sound and graphics) all can be used intelligently.

Balthasar

11-13-2006, 02:08 PM

Here is another example of IGN's 100% comment.

At some point, someone from Sony at an official press event told IGN that PS3 would be 100% backwards compatible. It was reported on several sites, as evidenced previously. Lots of people read IGN so the expectation was set.
Do those games not play on the PS3, or do they play, but with glitches? This was the same issue we saw with the PS2. When I hear 100% BC or "fully" BC, I know they mean that they are likely using some kind of hardware solution. But we all know the hardware or software solution are not actually perfect, so saying the system is backwards compatable and saying it plays all older games perfectly are pretty much two different things. I mean, if you want to pretend you didn't understand that before hand, you're more than welcome to go on a tirade about how you're not going to be able to play games you don't own with a system that you have no intention of buying.

It was a joke. That's why it came with one of these... :D
So anytime you say anything, regardless of content or context, as long as you use a smiley, it's automatically not trolling?

How can anyone think that playing without sound is an option, unless they are hearing-impaired to begin with.
I don't know how anyone can begin to attack or defend the comment without seeing the actual quote.

II Comrade II

11-13-2006, 02:39 PM

Given that a good portion of the BC is being done *in hardware* it may be harder to fix than a simple software bug.
The only reason its done in the hardware is because Sony said they will put the emotion engine into PS3's until the software is able to do the emulation. So they could send the software update the consoles that have the chip into them along with the consoles w/o the chip.

Kamalot

11-13-2006, 03:35 PM

Do those games not play on the PS3, or do they play, but with glitches? This was the same issue we saw with the PS2. When I hear 100% BC or "fully" BC, I know they mean that they are likely using some kind of hardware solution. But we all know the hardware or software solution are not actually perfect, so saying the system is backwards compatable and saying it plays all older games perfectly are pretty much two different things. I mean, if you want to pretend you didn't understand that before hand, you're more than welcome to go on a tirade about how you're not going to be able to play games you don't own with a system that you have no intention of buying.
Are you suggesting that when someone says ‘100% backwards compatible’ or ‘fully backwards compatible’ we are to expect 200 games not to work? I don’t know where you come from but where I live, ‘100%’ and ‘fully’ mean something else.

I’ll also have you know that I do own a PS2 along with a healthy selection of titles for it, so please tell me again how I won’t be able to play games I ‘don’t own.’ :p

Hemalin

11-13-2006, 03:44 PM

I’ll also have you know that I do own a PS2 along with a healthy selection of titles for it, so please tell me again how I won’t be able to play games I ‘don’t own.’ :p
Why do you care anyway? You can play your PS2 games and you have no intention of ever buying a PS3 so what does it matter what its BC is like?

Kamalot

11-13-2006, 03:49 PM

Why do you care anyway? You can play your PS2 games and you have no intention of ever buying a PS3 so what does it matter what its BC is like?
:D

Thanks for knowing my mind so well. I've stated on many occasions that I would be happy to buy a PS3, provided a few criteria concerning price and killer exclusive games get hit.

You'll also find I am intensely concerned when one of the game companies says one thing and does something else (Nintendo's Wii DVD playback comes to mind as does Microsoft's early statement that every 360 would ship with a hard drive).

Serapth

11-13-2006, 04:01 PM

:D

Thanks for knowing my mind so well. I've stated on many occasions that I would be happy to buy a PS3, provided a few criteria concerning price and killer exclusive games get hit.

You'll also find I am intensely concerned when one of the game companies says one thing and does something else (Nintendo's Wii DVD playback comes to mind as does Microsoft's early statement that every 360 would ship with a hard drive).

The funny thing is, there were literally hundreds of threads mad mouthing Microsoft for releasing the harddrive-less Xbox 360, yet almost nothing bashing the Wii. Its so very obvious this site is nothing but *** fanbois! :rolleyes:

Kamalot

11-13-2006, 04:04 PM

The funny thing is, there were literally hundreds of threads mad mouthing Microsoft for releasing the harddrive-less Xbox 360, yet almost nothing bashing the Wii. Its so very obvious this site is nothing but *** fanbois! :rolleyes:
I think with that particular issue, Wii not playing DVDs, nobody really cares. It is a shame that the feature was pulled (especially since its announcement was so prominent) but everyone buying a Wii already has the ability to play DVDs. I think that's why there wasn't more of an outcry over it.

I'm not making excuses for Nintendo. If they announced the damn thing is gonna play DVDs, then it should sure as hell play DVDs. If not, then don't announce it.

Microsoft has NO excuse for not shipping a hard drive with every console, especially after they made such high-profile announcements about it.

Serapth

11-13-2006, 04:22 PM

Microsoft has NO excuse for not shipping a hard drive with every console, especially after they made such high-profile announcements about it.

... isnt "giving you the option of saving 100$ upfront" a pretty good excuse? ;)

EDIT: Dont get me wrong, I dislike the core. But then, im not poor either. Making a system affordable to more people should be viewed as a good thing, but nobody took this perspective. Yet then ( and no offence to everyone here ), if you have the time and resources to surf and post at a gaming site, you probrably arent in dire straights land so this feature wont appeal to you.

Kamalot

11-13-2006, 04:25 PM

... isnt "giving you the option of saving 100$ upfront" a pretty good excuse? ;)

EDIT: Dont get me wrong, I dislike the core. But then, im not poor either. Making a system affordable to more people should be viewed as a good thing, but nobody took this perspective. Yet then ( and no offence to everyone here ), if you have the time and resources to surf and post at a gaming site, you probrably arent in dire straights land so this feature wont appeal to you.
That's a good reason for shipping without a hard drive, provided you haven't already made public announcements that every Xbox 360 would ship with a hard drive. :D

Edit: While I'm not a fan of the core, I can understand those without an extra $100 to spend may pick up the core system. My beef is more about corporate lying.

OrangePulp

11-13-2006, 04:46 PM

I play games without sound. Mute the sound, put on a good album. Especially when backwards compatability is concerned; I've played FFT so much that I pretty much know every sound that every weapon and spell is going to make (in my defense, there aren't many), so why not put on something that's more enjoyable to listen to on a purely audible perspective?

Not to say that I never listen to the audio in games; muting the sound on a game is the exception rather than the rule. But then again, I didn't see anything pointing to which specific games run without sound. I could see it being a big issue if it was in some of the really big titles, but for all we know, it could be for something like Barbie Horse Adventures.

I'd like to see a complete list of the games that aren't fully compatable, as well as what specifically is wrong with them, before I make judgements.

Hemalin

11-13-2006, 07:21 PM

:D

Thanks for knowing my mind so well. I've stated on many occasions that I would be happy to buy a PS3, provided a few criteria concerning price and killer exclusive games get hit.

You'll also find I am intensely concerned when one of the game companies says one thing and does something else (Nintendo's Wii DVD playback comes to mind as does Microsoft's early statement that every 360 would ship with a hard drive).
I'll ask again. Why do you care about BC? By the time there are "killer" exclusives and the price drops I'm sure BC will be ironed out. Until then what does it matter to you?

KingGorilla

11-13-2006, 08:01 PM

... isnt "giving you the option of saving 100$ upfront" a pretty good excuse? ;)

EDIT: Dont get me wrong, I dislike the core. But then, im not poor either. Making a system affordable to more people should be viewed as a good thing, but nobody took this perspective. Yet then ( and no offence to everyone here ), if you have the time and resources to surf and post at a gaming site, you probrably arent in dire straights land so this feature wont appeal to you.
60 bucks. If you get a 256 MB card, assuming. But then again factoring in batteries, that brings the 360 price up to 430...so add 30, you are saving 90.

On second thought, let's just say it like it is, neither package ships as complete hardware, and you are going to end up buying after market crap any way.

But to the topic at hand, the lists I have seen of the PS2/1 games that are not fully functional, are rather minimal. If 20 or so games are not playable at launch, that seems art par with the Back Compat the PS2 gave.

Johan

11-13-2006, 08:04 PM

I'd like to know WHO gave this thread FIVE STARS!

Haha! Oh boy...

I'll throw my two cents in there...maybe lower it a bit.

Kamalot

11-13-2006, 08:15 PM

I'll ask again. Why do you care about BC? By the time there are "killer" exclusives and the price drops I'm sure BC will be ironed out. Until then what does it matter to you?Are you so sure backwards compatibility will be ironed out? How do you know these companies aren't just telling you that so you buy their products today?

Once you buy the console, there is NO INCENTIVE for the parent company to implement any more backwards compatibility, unless consumer backlash is an incentive.

I'm still waiting for Psychonauts, Panzer Dragoon Orta and GunValkyrie to show up on the 360's backward compatibility list.

Hemalin

11-13-2006, 08:22 PM

Are you so sure backwards compatibility will be ironed out? How do you know these companies aren't just telling you that so you buy their products today?

Once you buy the console, there is NO INCENTIVE for the parent company to implement any more backwards compatibility, unless consumer backlash is an incentive.

I'm still waiting for Psychonauts, Panzer Dragoon Orta and GunValkyrie to show up on the 360's backward compatibility list.
You still haven't answered my question. Why do you care?

Johan

11-13-2006, 08:29 PM

You still haven't answered my question. Why do you care?

The same could be asked of you...

The same could be asked of you...

The same could be asked of you...

STOP! ;) Please!!

Hemalin

11-13-2006, 08:36 PM

The same could be asked of you...

The same could be asked of you...

The same could be asked of you...

STOP! ;) Please!!
Welcome to the discussion Johan. It's nice to see you're being your usual self and doing nothing for the discussion.

Johan

11-13-2006, 08:41 PM

Welcome to the discussion Johan. It's nice to see you're being your usual self and doing nothing for the discussion.

I aim to please!

And I thought a discussion involved TWO or more people...seems to me you're talking to a virtual wall, repeating the same thing over and over! ;)

Balthasar

11-13-2006, 08:44 PM

Are you suggesting that when someone says ‘100% backwards compatible’ or ‘fully backwards compatible’ we are to expect 200 games not to work? I don’t know where you come from but where I live, ‘100%’ and ‘fully’ mean something else.
Does the article state 200 games don't run on the PS3, or that 200 games are operating with glitches (such as stuttering frame-rate and no sound)?

I’ll also have you know that I do own a PS2 along with a healthy selection of titles for it, so please tell me again how I won’t be able to play games I ‘don’t own.’ :p
I don't know, how many games on that list do you actually own? Actually, that was a stupid question, because you're going to just say whatever you need to not look wrong. I guess the better question is, exactly when did you intend on buying a PS3?

Hemalin

11-13-2006, 09:11 PM

Does the article state 200 games don't run on the PS3, or that 200 games are operating with glitches (such as stuttering frame-rate and no sound)?
According to this (http://ps3.ign.com/articles/745/745439p1.html) article the 200 games include problems with sound, virtual memory card, michrophone-compatible games, and USB peripherals. Some of the sound issues seem to involve not being able to send audio over HDMI.

And I thought a discussion involved TWO or more people...seems to me you're talking to a virtual wall, repeating the same thing over and over!
It's Kamalot, you're always talking to a wall.

Balthasar

11-13-2006, 09:16 PM

According to this (http://ps3.ign.com/articles/745/745439p1.html) article the 200 games include problems with sound, virtual memory card, michrophone-compatible games, and USB peripherals. Some of the sound issues seem to involve not being able to send audio over HDMI.
Oh, I know that. It was a rhetorical question for Kamalot. He's trying his hardest to not understand the clear and obvious distinction between saying the PS3 had full BC and saying all of the games work perfectly on it. Which again doesn't matter, because he didn't want a PS3 anyway.

Watership

11-13-2006, 09:44 PM

While no where near as bad as the Xbox 360 "backwards compatibility" it looks like the Playstation 3 isn't without fault. IGN is reporting (http://ps3.ign.com/articles/745/745506p1.html) that somewhere around 200 PS2 titles are having issues on the PS3.

At least they can fix this. When was the last time we got a 360 BC update? I guess they finished overdelivering on that.

I get that the ps3 does backwards compatibility better than the 360, but i think that shit microsoft is getting because of it is unfounded. And heres why: The fault with Microsoft's xbox backwards compatibility lies not with the 360, but with a business decision made in 1999 where MS let Nvidia keep ownership over the Xbox GPU. That's it. If MS owned their own GPU, they would have slapped it into the 360, and none of this would be an issue.

So MS could have said.. "Ohwell" And left it alone. Instead, they built a code team dedicated to making these games work with emulation. A significant code project that has given 30 percent of the library to backwards compatibility.

Its completely true that ps3 BC is absolutely better than the 360 BC. I'm not debating that. It is however a good thing that at least they attempted it, and with upconverting resolutions, something that the ps3 does not do.

Ultima Thulian

11-13-2006, 10:11 PM

http://i118.photobucket.com/albums/o110/ultima13/heston.jpg

............

Ifire

11-14-2006, 04:46 AM

According to this article it sounds a lot worse

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&pubid=968163964505&cid=1163502486337&col=968705899037&call_page=TS_News&call_pageid=968332188492&call_pagepath=News/News

"But Sony Computer Entertainment spokesman Satoshi Fukuoka said some of the 8,000 older games weren't working properly on PS3, making the wrong sounds or images, and some couldn't be played at all."

"Fukuoka said the problems in playing the older games were not a glitch and had been expected. Sony announced the problem on its Japanese Web page Nov. 11, the day when the PS3 went on sale to lines of eager fans at Japanese retailers."

The fact that they are now claiming it was expected and not a glitch is not very encouraging. Does that mean they will not be persuing compatibility further?

bapenguin

11-14-2006, 04:54 AM

60 bucks. If you get a 256 MB card, assuming. But then again factoring in batteries, that brings the 360 price up to 430...so add 30, you are saving 90.

On second thought, let's just say it like it is, neither package ships as complete hardware, and you are going to end up buying after market crap any way.

But to the topic at hand, the lists I have seen of the PS2/1 games that are not fully functional, are rather minimal. If 20 or so games are not playable at launch, that seems art par with the Back Compat the PS2 gave.

You can do shit like this all day with numbers. The bottom line is "can I play games right out of the box". If the answer is yes than that's the price.

KingGorilla

11-14-2006, 04:58 AM

But BA, you have to admit, a wireless controller...and a pair of damn energizers was a shitty thing to do.

But at the task at hand...has Nintendo disclosed any of the inevitable Back COmpat issues? There are bound to be some with the change in media that they are doing.

Balthasar

11-14-2006, 06:12 PM

You can do shit like this all day with numbers. The bottom line is "can I play games right out of the box". If the answer is yes than that's the price.
If that's the only part of the experience you care about, then I agree. If you bought the console solely to play games, and the console has everything you need to play those games, then that's it. But we can't pretend there is no such thing as a "hidden cost." And it's not unique to consoles either. You don't rent an apartment without considering utilities, you don't buy a house without considering repairs, and you most certainly don't go to a college without considering cost of living and textbooks, so I don't see why it should be different here.