Xbox 360 specs leaked!

[Borys]

Another day, another Xbox 360 "leak". This time it's about specs and the new Live service. Without a further a do:

Xbox Live, 2 types:

Xbox Live Silver (no subscription required)
Xbox Live Gold (subscription benefits)

Features for Gold service
* Also for Silver
# Also for Offline

- Seamless transition to Xbox Live account from Xbox to Xbox 360
- Access to MMOs (additional fees may apply) *
- Free Xbox Live weekends *
- Multiplayer online gameplay
- Avatar for gamer profile * #
- Motto for gamer profile * #
- Personalized look for Xbox System Guide * #
- Offline achievments * #
- Online achievements *
- Access to other players' Gamer cards via Live *
- Cumulative gamer score * #
- Location/language profile * #
- Reputation *
- Enahnced matchmaking using above
- Skill level matchmaking
- Gameplay style profile (casual, competitive, etc.)
- Recent players list *
- Free and premium download game content *
- Free and premium downloadable movies, music, tv *
- Downloadable demos/trailers *
- Microtransactions *
- Custom playlist in every game * #
- Play music from portable devices * #
- View images from digital camera * #
- Strem media from Windows XP * #
- Interactive screen savers * #
- Track info for CDs * #
- Communication with voice, video or text *

Now for the hardware specs a.k.a. numbers:


1. Support for DVD-video, DVD-Rom, DVD-R/RW, CD-DA, CD-Rom, CD-R, CD-RW, WMA CD, MP3 cd, JPEG photo CD
2. All games supported at 16:9, 720p and 1080i, anti-aliasing
3. Customizable face plates to change appearance
4. 3 USB 2.0 ports
5. Support for 4 wireless controllers
6. Detachable 20GB drive
7. Wi-Fi ready

Custom IBM PowerPC-based CPU
- 3 symmetrical cores at 3.2 GHz each
- 2 hardware threads per core
- 1 VMX-128 vector unit per core
- 1 MB L2 cache

Custom ATI Graphics Processor
- 500 MNz
- 10 MB embedded DRAM
- 48-way parallel floating-point shader pipelines
- unified shader architecture

Memory
-512 MB GDDR3 RAM
- 700 MNz DDR

Memory Bandwidth
- 22.4 GB/s memory interface bus bandwidth
- 256 GB/s memory bandwidth to EDRAM
- 21.6 GB/s frontside bus

Audio
- Mulitchannel surround sond output
- Supports 48khz 16-bit audio
- 320 independent decompression channels
- 32 bit processing
- 256+ audio channels


There! They are pretty legit - confirmed by people in the know at Gaming-Age Forums to be 100% "real and final" *and* furiously deleted from every thread at TeamXbox.

mkelehan has provided a link (http://www.gamesarefun.com/news.php?newsid=4844) from Gamesarefun (http://www.gamesarefun.com/) regarding this information. And chimes in with the following.

The technical specs are great and all, but the Live stuff has me really excited. Letting every system owner download content and have a Friends list, regardless of whether or not they pay for Live play, is a great idea.

sTubbs has also provided a link (http://www.engadget.com/entry/1234000267042765/) to the specs courtesy of Engadget (http://www.engadget.com). It looks like the Gamesarefun site is getting the living tar pounded out of it, so thanks for the additional link. - Everlost_MI

[Franjo]

That is sexy. Especially:
2. All games supported at 16:9, 720p and 1080i, anti-aliasing

[Taco]

No bundled keyboard and mouse?

/I suck

[fushi]

Another day, another Xbox 360 "leak".
Oh no, are you saying they did this on purpose??? :confused: :confused: :confused: :eek:

Seriously though, this is quite impressive, especially the fact that there's a Live version without subscription. People should check the Gaming-Age forums right now, there's quite a bit of info about the MTV event floating around. And the forums are a mess too, at the moment.

[Pureboy]

Sounds great. I'm excited about this, especially what the PS3 will have to compete with this, knowing that MS spent a generation just fleshing out a good online infrastructure.

[Reanimated]

48-way parallel floating-point shader pipelines


HOLY SHIT!

Isn't ATI's next gen PC card going to have 24 pipelines?

48 pipelines OMGWTF BATSHIT INSANE.

[zangster]

For any of those anti-Xbox/MS people out there about to comment angrily about the Xbox 360...pause for just a moment and pretend there are no other video game consoles out there and this isn't being produced by Microsoft and tell me with a straight face that those numbers and features aren't sexy.

[bobbler]

Lookin good. The Live! stuff is a pleasant surprise -- If I understood right... The basic Live service is free?

[PIPBoy3000]

I remember hearing about a possible PPU (physics processing unit). Nothing listed here, I see.

Three CPUs is pretty amazing processing power . . .

[Toxic Fuzz]

I find microtransactions extremely non-sexy.

[Triprotic]

detatchable 20GB drive..... hmmmm... i wounder.....

[falak]

OMGWTFBBQLOLLERSKATES!!!ELEVENTYBUFFER_OVERFLOW

The new live service looks shit hot. I especially like the offline/online achievements. And no subscription? I knew it!

I need something from Sony and big N!

Roll on E3!

Don't get carried away... don't get carried away...

EDIT: I find 512mb of RAM very sexy...

[sTubbs]

Damn, I just submitted this, but when I returned to the main page, it had magically appeared thanks to Borys. Anyways, these specs look fairly plausible, especially considering their rampant deleting from Team XBOX.

Several things please me about these specs. One is the standard Wi-Fi capabilities, which I have been desperately wanting; two is the 512 megs of RAM [remember, console RAM is typically faster than PC RAM, and is also dedicated]; and three is the fact that all games will supposedly support not just 720p, but also 1080i, and with sweet anti-aliasing to boot. I also hope that those 48 pipelines are true. If they are, this thing will be a shading machine.

The only bad thing I can see is that it looks like the upper tier Gold Live has to be purchased if you want to seamlessly transfer your old account. Obviously, this is a devious attempt to by MS to pilfer more money. However, I can not see how this would be that much more expensive than Silver Live, as the only other difference is that Gold Live has more customizable matchmaking abilities. I guess we shall see how true this stuff is come Thursday.

After seeing these specs, I am very interested in what Sony has to offer. While they do have the extra time to come through with a more powerful device, it is questionable on whether or not they do. In any case, Sony is not exactly known for building elegant hardware, so unless they manage to build their first easy to design for console, MS will probably have an edge. Shit, this hype machine is getting way too out of hand already. I can no longer resist the dark side, and with E3 around the corner, I am ready to explode. Hell, even the MTV gig on Thursday has me bouncing around like a kid on Christmas morning.

[Toxic Fuzz]

PIPBoy3000, the third core on the processor will essentially act like a PPU. Anyways, utilizing multiple cores on processors is a much more elegant solution than having to buy a new physics card. Only time will tell to see how well PhysiX does compared to multi-core CPU's or even offloading the physics processing to the GPU.

[Taco]

May I point out, listed as only available in the gold version of live:

- Multiplayer online gameplay

So if you don't pay you can only play MMRPG's? Which will have their own monthly cost. Not saying its a bad thing, but it doesn't look free to me. Could be misunderstanding it though.

[bobbler]

I don't think the PPU was ever going to be in the xbox2, it was just going to fully supoprt the Novodex api.

That was my understanding at least...

[Borys]

Damn, I just submitted this, but when I returned to the main page, it had magically appeared thanks to Borys.

Borys > sTubbs

:)

[LilAbner]

Can't wait to see how Sony keeps pretending that MS doesn't exist. This is a tall fucking order to beat, but of course it's all about the games.

[zangster]

The only bad thing I can see is that it looks like the upper tier Gold Live has to be purchased if you want to seamlessly transfer your old account.

I think I saw on the Gaming Age forums that all current Live accounts would roll over into Gold accounts. That'd be damn fine.

[InstaPete]

May I point out, listed as only available in the gold version of live:

- Multiplayer online gameplay

So if you don't pay you can only play MMRPG's? Which will have their own monthly cost. Not saying its a bad thing, but it doesn't look free to me. Could be misunderstanding it though.

From what it looks like to me, you need to get Gold to play multiplayer games, except on "Free Live Weekends", which could be an occasional thing, like when the cable company gives you HBO for the weekend, or every weekend, which would be pretty badass.

I realllllllllllllllllly like the idea of a universal semi-Live that everyone has access to. This is the stuff that I'm really excited about for the next-gen Xbox.

[Draft]

Wow, MS just turned Live up to 11. Looks like Xbox 360 is going to be the multiplayer console of choice.

[bapenguin]

OMGWTFBBQLOLLERSKATES!!!ELEVENTYBUFFER_OVERFLOW



Now that's some funny shit. If you could have fit Strawberry Pussy Pants into that, I would have had to give you a cookie.

This model is looking pretty good for live, especially if the "Gold" subscription is just the current live sub.

[Plac1d]

Some one needs to explain this to me: 3 symmetrical cores at 3.2 GHz each.

If it's what I'm thinking about.. there's no way in Satan's hell the PS3 "cell chip" is three times greater in CPU power. Again, that was just a rumor.

[ElectricMonk]

this system looks insane. it's like the best qualities of xbox + the best qualities of the ps2 rolled in one. i'd like to see sony's specs now.

i think its pretty crazy how the general gamer opinion has swung from "ms sucks" to "ms will destroy sony" so quickly. good for ms marketing.

[Furtive]

Sexy numbers indeed. I'm very curious to see what these Free Live Weekends are all about. If they are every weekend thats just awesome. I think its funny though that when Nintendo said their online services would be free everyone said thats just not possible but now that MS has offered semi-free service its a very plausible idea. Either way Sony and Nintendo have their work cut out for them.

[Taco]

Pre-release console hype never fails. It only didn't worked for MS last go round because Sony trumped them by over a year(i think) and of course it was their first. I'm sure people will be impressed by the PS3 specs whether it is declared the paper launch winner or not.

[Borys]

I don't want MS to destroy Sony but looks like there's no other way :(

ONE CONSOLE FUTURE

Xbox 3, nothing else.

"Who needs a PC or Playstation?"

[Deadend]

Ok, MS now has my attention.

The 20gb detachable HD has me very intrigued, as a portable Mp3 player sounds great.

Looks like this could be a beast of a system, but it does not act as a blender or toast bread for me.

[KNOTE]

the controller is really nice, too. sort of a perfect blend between Duke ergonomics and Akebono size. No more broken glass for ABXY. The triggers are improved and the black and whites are now like the R1, R2 on the dual shock.

*or so i've heard*

[crackeriah]

I'm very curious to see what these Free Live Weekends are all about. If they are every weekend thats just awesome.
I think it's weird that weekends would be free, but weekdays would cost. It seems like they would want it the other way around.

You provide the "free" service when you have the lowest load (like weekdays at 4:00 in the morning), not when you have the highest load (Saturday night). Cellphone companies know this, and I suspect Microsoft does too.

[Everlost_MI]

Damn, I just submitted this, but when I returned to the main page, it had magically appeared thanks to Borys.

FYI, it was Borys, mkelehan then sTubbs who submitted in that order the story/scoop. In any case, thanks to all three of you for pouncing on this story.

[fitbabits]

Holy fuck, Batman! In-fucking-SANE. I love the Xbox Live tiered service idea and the GPU (if confirmed) is boggling my mind. I was going to get one anyways, but if these specs are confirmed later this week (and the launch line-up is as impressive as these specs), I will be camping out at my local EB come November.

[Kelegacy]

Eh, the Nintendo DS already pwns the XB360!!! ;)

Actually, numbers are all fine and dandy and they ARE exciting to see, but right now my PC is 10 times more powerful than my PS2 but i play that machine more than the rig i am typing on now. Ironic how that works, eh? Like people have already said, it's all about the gaming goodness. Now we just need companies to take advantage of the specs and make great games...and not go out of business because of the high cost of developing or charging us 70 bucks a game.

I have a fear of 60-70 dollar games. I fear I will forced into putting on an eyepatch and sailing the digital seas, if you know what I mean.

[Kelegacy]

Oh, and for the record:

Kelegacy + lobotomy - natural good looks = stubbs

Kelegacy - masculinity + 30 lbs of corn-filled turd = Borys

Thus:

Kelegacy > Borys and stubbs

:) I love you guys

[gamecaptor]

So are they using regular DVD as the media format of choice? I thought they were going to be HD-DVD?

[Borys]

FYI, it was Borys, mkelehan then sTubbs who submitted in that order the story/scoop. In any case, thanks to all three of you for pouncing on this story.

Me > all

:)

BTW I edited some URL errors in the story.

[fitbabits]

So are they using regular DVD as the media format of choice? I thought they were going to be HD-DVD?

Yup, plain vanilla DVD. Rather that than the added expense of manufacturing HD-DVD, I reckon.

[mkelehan]

So are they using regular DVD as the media format of choice? I thought they were going to be HD-DVD?

Nope, dual-layer DVD. As it turns out, very few games will need to have more than 9GB available at any given time, and those that need more than 9GB over the course of the whole game can still ship on two discs.

[Last of the Red Hot Mamas]

I thought they were going to be HD-DVD?

November is way too early to release an HD-DVD console and keep the costs at a reasonable level. Anyway HD-DVD is pretty much dead -- the HD-DVD guys are currently in talks with the Blu-Ray guys to come up with a unified format, and if "informed sources" are to be believed, whatever format emerges from those talks will basically be Blu-Ray with a few relatively minor modifications.

[falak]

it does not act as a blender or toast bread for me.
Ah, they're working on that, apparently. The M.Home or M-Home, or something. Fridges that talk to Wal-Mart, etc. A motherbrain that profiles your favourite type of cheese. Reminds me of that simpsons episode with Pierce Brosnan.

I heard the 360 uses DVD.

[KDups]

The Xbox 360 is officially the worst kept secret in the gaming industry. Of course MS did very little to crack down, but damn have they kept the ball rolling since late last year.

They certainly know how to create a buzz.

[Last of the Red Hot Mamas]

The 20GB hard drive sounds weird. I was under the impression that one of the things that drove up the cost of the Xbox was the 10GB drive, since drives that small are so uncommon these days that MS pretty much has to get them specially made. Wouldn't 20GB drives have the same problem? Obviously they can offset the costs by charging extra for the drive (which they couldn't do with the original Xbox), but is MS really saving any money by going with 20GB drives instead of, say, 40 or possibly even 80?

[Kelegacy]

I heard that we are all living in a Matrix-like world but our bodies are all mass stored in a giant Cosmic Wal-Mart. Ol' Roy dogfood? That was my grandfather.

Low Prices. Always. :)

[fitbabits]

The 20GB hard drive sounds weird. I was under the impression that one of the things that drove up the cost of the Xbox was the 10GB drive, since drives that small are so uncommon these days that MS pretty much has to get them specially made. Wouldn't 20GB drives have the same problem? Obviously they can offset the costs by charging extra for the drive (which they couldn't do with the original Xbox), but is MS really saving any money by going with 20GB drives instead of, say, 40 or possibly even 80?

I get the feeling that the hard drive will not be the standard off-the-shelf variety - didn't MS sign a deal with a storage manufacturing company some time ago? Perhaps this is related?

[Zanzibar]

Wi-Fi built-in?? Does that mean that Halo 2 LAN parties will merely consist of plugging in your 360 near other 360s? No cables?

For that matter, does the 360 even have a standard network port?

[fitbabits]

I heard that we are all living in a Matrix-like world but our bodies are all mass stored in a giant Cosmic Wal-Mart. Ol' Roy dogfood? That was my grandfather.

Low Prices. Always. :)

Yet another leak? :eek:

[KNOTE]

The 20GB hard drive sounds weird. I was under the impression that one of the things that drove up the cost of the Xbox was the 10GB drive, since drives that small are so uncommon these days that MS pretty much has to get them specially made. Wouldn't 20GB drives have the same problem? Obviously they can offset the costs by charging extra for the drive (which they couldn't do with the original Xbox), but is MS really saving any money by going with 20GB drives instead of, say, 40 or possibly even 80?

my guess is that portable mp3 players like the ipod have driven down the cost and power of small-form hard drives considerably. the cost associated with the original was that it was large, pc based, and required a large expensive power supply. i still wish they went with the huge flash cards myself, but having a hard drive is nice.

my big question is: will this thing be quieter than the jet engine/sheet metal grinder xbox 1? I mean, we have to live with these things.

[Last of the Red Hot Mamas]

I get the feeling that the hard drive will not be the standard off-the-shelf variety - didn't MS sign a deal with a storage manufacturing company some time ago? Perhaps this is related?

That was probably for memory cards. If it's not a hard drive I don't see why they'd use the word "drive." And I might be wrong, but I don't think it's really possible at this point to get 20GB of solid-state memory for a halfway reasonable price, and solid-state memory is the only alternative I can think of.

my guess is that portable mp3 players like the ipod have driven down the cost and power of small-form hard drives considerably. the cost associated with the original was that it was large, pc based, and required a large expensive power supply.

I hadn't actually considered that. 20GB still seems stingy though, particularly if that's the only option available.

[fitbabits]

my big question is: will this thing be quieter than the jet engine/sheet metal grinder xbox 1? I mean, we have to live with these things.

My Xbox has always been really quiet - unlike my PS2, which sounds like a demented cat with a hairball when it's accessing data from the game disk.

[fitbabits]

That was probably for memory cards. If it's not a hard drive I don't see why they'd use the word "drive." And I might be wrong, but I don't think it's really possible at this point to get 20GB of solid-state memory for a halfway reasonable price, and solid-state memory is the only alternative I can think of.

I think you may have a point there. See KNOTE's post above, though, for a better idea of what I was trying to convey. Time will tell, I suppose... Roll on Thursday.

Edited for spelling of KNOTE's name.

[happycat]

Is there any news on whether the 360 will be able to run XBOX games?

[sTubbs]

Is there any news on whether the 360 will be able to run XBOX games?

None so far. The fact that MS has remained silent on the issue, and has side stepped any questions regarding it, makes me think that it will not be a feature of the 360. I guess that they just could not get it to work on the new hardware. While I understand that this would disappoint some, it does not affect me in the least. Tradtionally, I have gone totally out with the old and in with the new during a new console release.

[Adewade]

The hard-drive is detachable - so the capacity to buy an upgrade in storage space seems to already be implemented, purposely. It'd be a good way to make some money off pirated software, by having the pirates buy special Xbox harddrives...

[Zanzibar]

Is there any news on whether the 360 will be able to run XBOX games?

At this point, my guess is that Microsoft will have a team of programmers working on backwards-compatibility...for a price.

MS has tried to make fully-functional backwards-compatibility with Xbox, but haven't been 'entirely successful.' They're probably 90% of the way there, but as with everything, it's the last 10% that's the hardest and most time-consuming. The cost-effectiveness of making it happen at launch just wasn't there.

After the system ships, probably a lot of the programming team will spend time ironing out the last 10%, and they'll probably offer it as a semi-low-cost download for the 360. Would you pay 20 bucks to play all your old games on the new system? For those who already own an Xbox, maybe not. But those whose first MS console is the 360 might want to play Halo 1.

[ghost]

I don't want MS to destroy Sony but looks like there's no other way :(

ONE CONSOLE FUTURE

Xbox 3, nothing else.

"Who needs a PC or Playstation?"

Isn't it a bit early to say that, seeing as we haven't gotten any hard data on the PS3 or Revolution specs yet?

Although these specs are sweeeeeet....

[ElectricMonk]

hmm if that's true about the hd-dvd vs blu-ray sony's trump card could be the ability to play blu-ray videos.

[Deadend]

If the Xbox 360 controls are wireless, having LAN parties will be harder, as signals would overlap. But, if there are good games for it, I may buy one.

Also, who said the hard drive will be PC sized? I heard a old rumor about the HD functioning as a MP3 player. Which would imply a small drive, laptop size at largest. Also a high price.

I still don't care about backwards compatibility, as I don't own any Xbox games.

[KDups]

Is there any news on whether the 360 will be able to run XBOX games?

Like everyone has said, nothing official. However one of these leaked stories said that the 360 w/hard drive will be backwards compatible while the HD-free 360 won't. No clue if that's true, but it sounds possible.

[if76]

I know it's random but no one has talked about loading times. With all this RAM and an "optional" hard-drive we're talking about a huge bottleneck from the DVD player to the RAM. Sure the CPU can access the RAM at incredible speed but the speed of a DVD player is finite and I don't feel like waiting for a 512MB (and that's just for the system RAM) DVD transfer everytime I load up a level.

[Last of the Red Hot Mamas]

If the Xbox 360 controls are wireless, having LAN parties will be harder, as signals would overlap. But, if there are good games for it, I may buy one.

It wouldn't be that much harder -- just make sure everyone is set to a different channel. The Wavebird has sixteen, you could probably do more (although I find it a bit unlikely any game would support more than sixteen players via LAN).

[Morrolan]

If that detatchable HD doubles as a portable MP3 player, I am DOWN. That would be a feature that could justify a purchase at launch price, for me. 600 dollars Canadian? Hell, there are just-MP3 players, at 20 gigs, that cost more than half of that, and I get a XB360 in the deal? It's still expensive as all shit, but I'm starting to lose my "wait 6 months no matter what" resolve.

I'm also very happy that my current live subscription will carry over. I'm also DAMNED excited that it will now have a free option.

Anyway, I really think that MS might have this one in the bag. PS3's power is all theoretical, and I don't care what Sony says to the contrary, it will be an asspain to code for. With all those features, standard online play, the earlier launch, more conventional architecture, some really great developers in their pocket, and Rockstar's contract with Sony now ended... I don't know. I just don't know.

I'd really like to see how much this fucker will cost to build, though. The silver live service has already proven that MS is trying to make this one very customer friendly, so I guess that means this will be debuting at a normal price point. Obviously they will be selling it at a loss. But I'd like to know how MUCH of a loss. Because, Christ, if those numbers are correct... doesn't this thing give the uber-servers of today a good run for their money?

[Plac1d]

Wi-Fi built-in?? Does that mean that Halo 2 LAN parties will merely consist of plugging in your 360 near other 360s? No cables?

For that matter, does the 360 even have a standard network port?
No, it means that Halo 3 LAN parties will merely consist of plugging in your 360 near other 360s.

[Last of the Red Hot Mamas]

Anyway, I really think that MS might have this one in the bag. PS3's power is all theoretical, and I don't care what Sony says to the contrary, it will be an asspain to code for.

How much more difficult could it be to code for than this? Sure, the Cell is an unknown quantity (sort of), but from what I've read elsewhere, if these specs are correct, the Xbox 360 will have the equivalent of six different processors. That's not going to be a walk in the park.

[XenonCJ]

d00dz!! I've done d1d a 360 when I saw doz specs 4 the xbox360! th3y PWN!!

I have to say... I think these specs must be a hoax...

[Pumped'Up]

these specs look old already.

512MB ram will be sub-par in a year.

[XenonCJ]

What the hell are "MNz"?

[LilBunnyFuFu]

One thing that I have heard from the inside of MS that the article didn't have was the detachable penis/vagina. I know that has to be true, because something this sexy just has to be humped on a daily basis.

wow.chicka.wow.wow

I woke my grandmother up at 1:00am just to tell her the specs.

[bone_matrix]

these specs look old already.

512MB ram will be sub-par in a year.

Well, considering the Xbox only has 64 MB ram and is enough to do some great graphics and games, 512 is damn sweet.

(http://gear.ign.com/articles/306/306618p1.html)

[CrysDark]

If this thing has a detachable mp3 player as the hard-drive addon. Me=$old

[MosBen]

I'm surprised nobody has asked this, but maybe I'm just dumb: 10mb of video memory? Isn't that a bit low by modern standards? Go easy on me guys...

[raVen]

Has anyone seen the leaked Perfect Dark Zero screenshot (http://www.activewin.com/xbox/articles/2005/3.sht ml)? It looks positively lame, considering the specs of this beast.

Btw I can't believe how appealing the 360 is from this information, it feels a little like Christmas.

[Spigot]

Comparing console specs to your PC specs tends to be a bit misleading. If nothing else, you've got a standard hardware set to develop for.

My question on this (forgive me for not reading all 7 pages of comments as it's past my bedtime)...

Is the 360 going to be backwards compatible? I've read things that say, 'yes', and things that say, 'no'.

If it is, then I could actually see myself getting a 360 soon-ish. I would have my big library of Xbox games to play while I wait for the library on the 360 to mature (plus I LOVE the idea of free Live... forking out the $100 Canadian for the 12 month subscription just hasn't seemed worth it to me).

If it's not, I'm not too keen on having TWO big consoles hogging what little space I have in my entertainment system. My Cube and PS2slim are so tiny... I don't want to have two gigantic MS systems stressing the support beams on my basement ceiling...

EDIT: Ok. I just saw that at least 3 people asked this, so never mind. I'll still leave my reasons why I like backwards compatibility. I'd be able to sell/trade-in/give away my Xbox 1.

[Varsity]

Apart from memory and peripherals, that's faster than my PC right here, and a console to boot! Holy crap!

[KDups]

Has anyone seen the leaked Perfect Dark Zero screenshot? It looks positively lame, considering the specs of this beast.

That shot was proven fake, just a modified HL2 shot. And a poor one at that.

[sTubbs]

That shot was proven fake, just a modified HL2 shot. And a poor one at that.

Right on - you beat me to it. Considering that shot would look right at home on the current XBOX, it is pretty easy to dismiss. I highly doubt that any of the screens or movies we have seen of next generation games are taken from real time game play. Until someone is standing in front of a TV with a controller and actually playing, I will continue to view everything next gen with as much skepticism as possible, but that is becoming increasingly hard as the tidal of wave of hype continues to grow.

[raVen]

Ah, well that's a relief. I assumed it was real because the people that got to play multiplayer PDZ and were interviewed on gamertagradio didn't seem so fussed on the visuals.

[sTubbs]

Ah, well that's a relief. I assumed it was real because the people that got to play multiplayer PDZ and were interviewed on gamertagradio didn't seem so fussed on the visuals.

Another obvious way to tell it was fake would be the fact it was not in widescreen HDTV. Correct me if I am wrong, but it seems to me that it would be weird of MS to brag about bringing in the 'HD era' only to display their games on a basic 4:3 television at the unveiling of their next gen console.

[Rommel]

Sweet merciful christ. I know I have been down on Nintendo since... alright a long fucking time, but I am beginning to see things there way. There is no way they can produce a machine that can compete with DeepBlueBox here, so why try? I loathe their "Let's make toys instead of video games!" approach, but some people dig it and it certainly gives them something to do besides failing miserably sheer power comparisons. A completely different, noncompetitve direction is a good idea for them. Also, I am terribly frightened this thing will launch me out an air lock.

[riposte101]

How much more difficult could it be to code for than this? Sure, the Cell is an unknown quantity (sort of), but from what I've read elsewhere, if these specs are correct, the Xbox 360 will have the equivalent of six different processors. That's not going to be a walk in the park.


XNA was created to resolve issues like these.

[riposte101]

Right on - you beat me to it. Considering that shot would look right at home on the current XBOX, it is pretty easy to dismiss. I highly doubt that any of the screens or movies we have seen of next generation games are taken from real time game play. Until someone is standing in front of a TV with a controller and actually playing, I will continue to view everything next gen with as much skepticism as possible, but that is becoming increasingly hard as the tidal of wave of hype continues to grow.

I've seen unreal 3 engine in real time on my pc. Let me dispell all of your skepticism and tell you that it looks amazing.

[baz]

XNA was created to resolve issues like these.

It might help, but its still going to require a lot of changes from the way games are currently programmed. Splitting your program into multiple threads is just going to add an extra level of complexity.

Still these problems will be solved, and we don't need to worry, we just get to sit back and play kick ass games. I'm going to go the revolution/xbox 360 combo I reckon, those two should compliment each other nicely.

[Morratut]

These specs look awesome. However i'm trying to not get suckered in by the specs. I'm very jaded since the PS2.

I can't wait to see this baby go power extreme for halo 3 and ninja gaiden 2 :D

[Ervin]

10MB embedded ram on the GPU, someone asked. Well, that's the first use of it as far as I know - it's like a huge on-chip cache for the GPU, and it you looked at the bandwith, it's 10x as much as current high end video cards have! The rest of the memory comes then from the much much slower system memory, 512MB of that, shared between the 3 CPUs and 1 GPU. So, unless there's some serious bottlenecks to the main memory, the graphics portion of xbox360 will absolutely trounce anything on the market currently,

Embedded ram is something BitBoys dreamed of and were going to use on their vaporware cards...

[bapenguin]

It might help, but its still going to require a lot of changes from the way games are currently programmed. Splitting your program into multiple threads is just going to add an extra level of complexity.

Still these problems will be solved, and we don't need to worry, we just get to sit back and play kick ass games. I'm going to go the revolution/xbox 360 combo I reckon, those two should compliment each other nicely.

Not if XNA does the threading automagically.

[baz]

Not if XNA does the threading automagically.

XNA seems like a beefed up DirectX, so unless it contains a complete game engine that you can just plug your game logic in, you are going to have to implement multi-core support in your engine. So mainly a problem for dudes like Epic/ID to sort out I guess. They are going to have to sort it out for the PC as well, with all the new dual core CPUs coming out.

Something like doing the physics 1 frame ahead of your graphics or something, so one core can be handling physics code, while the other deals with graphics, and maybe a third one with networking and whatnot. Still you can't draw the graphics till you've done the physics calcs, so its not like you instantly double the speed anyway.

Not sure what the best way to split a game up would be though, I'm just thinking out loud. I'm a software engineer, but nothing to do with games :(

[*Legion*]

The 10MB of embedded video RAM exists to speed up antialiasing calculations.

It was revealed last month that the Xbox 360 would have some embedded video RAM just for that purpose. (http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=22828)

[Last of the Red Hot Mamas]

This comes from another forum which will currently remain unnamed. The guy is supposedly working on Condemned (he claims to be, anyway) so he presumably has some knowledge of these things:

I love that the games have a minimum spec of 720P with AA> That alone will have me preordering the first day I can.

You will like what will be shown at e3 then. Though keep in mind at e3 most games will be shown on alpha hardware which has about 1/4 the fill rate of the final hardware, so framerates/AA will not be great.

Those specs, as far as the cpu/gpu go, are accurate. You'll note it does not mention the optical drive speed. This is because the optical drive speed sucks. The hardware is a fucking Aurora spyplane fueled through a bendy straw.

I guess that sorta gets back to the RAM bottleneck issue if76 mentioned way back on page 6. Either we're going to get long loading times or developers are going to be holding back on how much of that RAM they actually use.

[Varsity]

XNA seems like a beefed up DirectX, so unless it contains a complete game engine that you can just plug your game logic in, you are going to have to implement multi-core support in your engine.
It is a complete game engine and more.

On the one hand, this is a great deal for gamers. On the other, even with game sales and Live! Gold subscriptions taken into account I really can't see the 360 pulling a profit with these sort of hardware and services for the prices people have been quoting. Microsoft will lose a lot of money - but they can afford to, and what's more they can afford to keep doing so until the competition have been choked out of the market.

[sTubbs]

This comes from another forum which will currently remain unnamed. The guy is supposedly working on Condemned (he claims to be, anyway) so he presumably has some knowledge of these things:

I love that the games have a minimum spec of 720P with AA> That alone will have me preordering the first day I can.


You will like what will be shown at e3 then. Though keep in mind at e3 most games will be shown on alpha hardware which has about 1/4 the fill rate of the final hardware, so framerates/AA will not be great.

Those specs, as far as the cpu/gpu go, are accurate. You'll note it does not mention the optical drive speed. This is because the optical drive speed sucks. The hardware is a fucking Aurora spyplane fueled through a bendy straw.

I guess that sorta gets back to the RAM bottleneck issue if76 mentioned way back on page 6. Either we're going to get long loading times or developers are going to be holding back on how much of that RAM they actually use.

As far as I know, the DVD drive will be 12x speed. While not absolutely top of the line [16x is], it should be plenty to prevent a bottleneck. I could see there being a problem if MS threw in a 4x or 6x or something along those lines, but 12x should work nicely.

PS: Yes, I know that is a lot of quoting just for my 3 sentence post.

[Rakael]

Does anyone else get the feeling that some of the doom and gloom "consoles will kill PC" people may finally be right?

That fucking thing is just SCARY!

[Roc Ingersol]

Screw marketing, go engineering.

Them are sexy numbers, and sexy multiplayer promises.

Here's to hoping that MS and Sony keep neck-to-neck this generation, so gamers keep reaping dividends like these.

[Last of the Red Hot Mamas]

It is a complete game engine and more.

Could you elaborate on this?

[Dirty Harry]

some say the ps3 will be faster due to it being released later than the xenon.

[[HATE]MyLife]

some say the ps3 will be faster due to it being released later than the xenon.

Some had better say something concrete that would make me want to wait for another "Emotion Engine" marketing gimmick pretty soon, 'cause the 360 is actually complete (or very nearly), functional and sounding pretty damned good.

[atariv8]

Since the HD won't be in every Xbox I doubt developers will use it much. I would put up with an "install" to the HD if it meant it would open up the pipe to the rest of the machine. Haven't they learned from all the other failed add-ons?

[Varsity]

Could you elaborate on this?
No, but I'm sure Google could. ;)

[[HATE]MyLife]

Q: What tools do developers get with XNA?
A: XNA tools will include DirectX and the High-Level Shader Language (HLSL), XACT, PIX and the Xaudio API, in addition to other development tools such as Visual Studio.

Q: Will developers be required to use every XNA tool?
A: All XNA tools are à la carte, meaning developers can use the parts and pieces they need to get their job done. These tools will allow developers to focus on writing the code that truly differentiates their games, and stop wasting time writing code just to get the basics up and running.

Doesn't quite sound like a game engine to me. Sounds a lot more like middleware.

[snubber]

Dizzamn. I'm now sold if all games really support 1080i. I got an older HD RPTV that only support 1080i, no 720p. I was bummed when I thought minimum Xbox would be 720p, and a lot of games wouldn't do 1080i. My friend who's developing an xbox2 game says they are only doing up to 720p, so I'm guessing it won't be required for the software devs to support 1080i, but it's the Xbox2 hardware itself that will upconvert as needed, which is AWESOME (saves me having to buy a convertor).

Saving my pennies now.

[Achilles]

My friend who's developing an xbox2 game says they are only doing up to 720p, so I'm guessing it won't be required for the software devs to support 1080i It may seem counter-intuitive but 720p is actually a higher resolution than 1080i. It’s very possible that your friend is making a game that will support both but saying he can’t do 1080p. You should probably ask him direct if his game supports 1080i.
Edit: ah nevermind, I should read more closely, you were talking about upconverting.

Also: these leaked specs are astounding.

[bobbler]

One thing worthy of noting is that the CPUs going into the next gen consoles can't be compared apples to apples versus the x86 cpus in your PCs, they are entirely different beasts. One takes a simplistic approach (transistor and archetecture wise) and relies more heavily on the compiler (and ends up with lots of wasted cpu cycles at times) and the other adds transistors to order instructions n such ondie (and end up costing more) - even in the x86 world, mhz to mhz comparisons don't tell you much (athlon64 2.4ghz vs P4 3.8ghz). The GPUs however, for the most part, can be compared directly to the ones we got (just different features, but they could most likely just pop one of those on a card and sell them for the PC if they were so inclined, and not bound by contracts).

Another thing of note... This generation of consoles will probably have the biggest differences between early games and late generation games (compared to previous generations of consoles). So thats another thing to look forward to. (between the in order compilers getting better and multithreaded programming becomming more common, there will be a lot of extra headroom to take advantage of over time)

[eir3678]

Am I the only one questioning why Microsoft would use a PowerPC chip in their console? This is NOT an x86 chip and is basically incompatible with everything written for the original Xbox if my assumptions are correct. It would seem to make very little sense for Microsoft to rewrite all their software so that it compiles on a PowerPC chip. Not to mention I've yet to hear of a triple-core processor from IBM. Last I checked they were still working on perfecting the dual-core 970MP and it was nowhere near running stable at 3.2GHz. There's also the price factor: IBM's high level PowerPC chips are extremely expensive. The only consumer machines to use IBM PowerPC chips are Apple's G5 machines, which require water cooling to even reach 2.5GHz on a 970 (non-dual core). I could be wrong. I could have missed some announcement from Microsoft on PowerPC chips. But these specs don't make sense to me.

[mister_slim]

MyLife']Doesn't quite sound like a game engine to me. Sounds a lot more like middleware.
MS has been pushing XNA as an analog to Visual Studio, IIRC. Asset management and tools. Definitely not an engine.

[WileE.Coyte]

I'm not saying that these specs are fake, but I could swear I read them a few days ago. I was searching for Xbox 360 info and somebody had written what they thought were going to be the technical specs of Microsoft's new hardware. I've tried in vain to find the sight again but I can't. What I remember of them is almost exactly what is written in the article. Have to wait and see.