Wii: Madden Demonstration

[score]

For all you Madden fans out there, Just found this at The Revolution Lifestyle (http://theboard.zogdog.com/index.php?automodule=blog&blogid=11&) :

A 9 minute long video demonstrating Madden 07 for the Wii (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xi03Fm9u8J4&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fgonintendo%2Ecom%2F) .

[phantomhitman]

its madden, on the wii, now you can be just as retarded as the game.

[MoJoBehaumat]

Hey hope its easier to remember movment instead of button smashing...

no worries about a thing
cause every little things, ganna be alright

[Mike Jones]

Well this pretty much confirms what I thought about Wii. Bad graphics and horrible control for sports games. That looked absolutely horrible. Somehow that is more intuitive that a regular controller?

[Xenkylm]

Well this pretty much confirms what I thought about Wii. Bad graphics and horrible control for sports games. That looked absolutely horrible. Somehow that is more intuitive that a regular controller?

Which part fails the Mike Jones Intuitive Test (c)? The part where you throw the ball by making a throwing motion? Or the part where you point at players and tell them where to go instead of remembering button combos for audibles?

/granted, the "shake the controller to break a tackle" thing sounds ominous.

[soco]

Well this pretty much confirms what I thought about Wii. Bad graphics and horrible control for sports games. That looked absolutely horrible. Somehow that is more intuitive that a regular controller?

the graphics didn't bother me, but i actually started thinking the same thing about the control. i was thinking, how is this easier or more fun when you're just doing gestures. i guess it might be easier for people who had actually played football, but i've played sports games for some sports i've never really played.

that was kinda the beauty of some of the earlier games, is that you didn't need to know so much about them. god i loved some of the early console sports games that were complex enough to add some bit of challenge, but were simple enough that you needn't have ever played the sport.

[Mozgus]

that was kinda the beauty of some of the earlier games, is that you didn't need to know so much about them. god i loved some of the early console sports games that were complex enough to add some bit of challenge, but were simple enough that you needn't have ever played the sport.
Nintendo World Cup and Tecmo Bowl are probably my two favorite sports games of all time.

[phantomhitman]

Hey hope its easier to remember movment instead of button smashing...

You lost me, I thought they took out the button mashing fighting sequences in Madden in 1984 :confused:

[bapenguin]

I actually thought the graphics looked pretty good. Better than I was expecting anyway. The only thing about the control scheme is it'll be a lot slower to do things. Not only because you'll have to relearn the controls but because the actual motions of doing things takes longer.

[benig]

who said horrible graphics? The game looks great. Very clean.

[Heretic Machine]

Just thought I'd point this out: The whole thing about the Wii controller being more "intuitive" has always been bunk. Eight year olds don't have a problem with a traditional controller after spending an hour with it, they have always been perfectly intuitive. The draw of the Wii-mote is that it is different, and more interactive. It is a new experience, that opens up a different kind of game, much like a lightgun.

[MoJoBehaumat]

You lost me, I thought they took out the button mashing fighting sequences in Madden in 1984 :confused:

You obviously havnt seen me play ;)
but seriously when you are trying to get in the inzone or go for that int, I tend to hit every button possible :D

[Goronmon]

who said horrible graphics? The game looks great. Very clean.That would be Mike Jones, one of our new resident trolls. He especially likes to troll on Wii threads.

Actually, thanks for mentioning it, I had taken him off ignore a couple days ago and forgot to redo it.

[destoo]

The only intuitive interface is the nipple. After that, it's all learned.
-Bruce Ediger

And even at that.. some specialists say it's not even intuitive.

Will the wii controller mimic real life? yes. Will it be easier to learn? not sure.. but I'm willing to try.

[Crittias]

That would be Mike Jones, one of our new resident trolls. He especially likes to troll on Wii threads.

Actually, thanks for mentioning it, I had taken him off ignore a couple days ago and forgot to redo it.

How do you put someone on an ignore list?

[Goronmon]

How do you put someone on an ignore list?1. Click on the name.
2. View Public Profile
3. Select Add to Ignore List on the right side of ths screen near the top.

[claws]

Eight year olds don't have a problem with a traditional controller after spending an hour with it, they have always been perfectly intuitive.
If you have to spend an hour with it, it ain't intuitive. What they mean is that your 72 year old grandmother could come over, pick up the wii controller, and come fairly close to playing a game with it. In that sense, it's much more intuitive than any conventional controller.

[MoJoBehaumat]

how many 72 year old women gamers does anybody here know???
I bet a total of less that 2

[claws]

I actually thought the graphics looked pretty good. Better than I was expecting anyway. The only thing about the control scheme is it'll be a lot slower to do things.
Yeah, for some reason I expected it to look bad, but you're right - it's pretty, and very smooth. Loading times don't seem too bad either!

[Sinistar]

Intersting that no one else noted that it's also playing 16x9. I thought Wii wasn't supposed to support HD sets, at least initially?

[emperordahc]

The ingame graphics looks like Madden on the XBox or Gamecube, and the menus are obviously placeholders. ("Lo" out of "Loading" was hidden, etc.) I don't know what everybody's griping about.

ESPN NFL still sits happily in my XBox.

[emperordahc]

Intersting that no one else noted that it's also playing 16x9. I thought Wii wasn't supposed to support HD sets, at least initially?
16x9 has nothing to do w/ HD. Goldeneye on the N64 (and a good chunk of Rareware's other games) had widescreen options. (I still play Goldeneye on mine at 16x9.)

As far as HD, the Wii supports 480p, but "supposedly" nothing higher.

[claws]

how many 72 year old women gamers does anybody here know???
I bet a total of less that 2
Maybe, but don't tell me it wouldn't be cool to have your ass kicked on Mario Kart by Granny Doris.

Besides, if online games were dominated by pensioners rather than grubby, hate-filled, potty-mouthed 9 year olds, they might be more fun :)

[AniAko]

EA making a crappy game doesn't speak for the quality of the platform it's on. This is no different than making a shitty control scheme on a regular controller. And since when is Madden a testament to anything more than the money hungry suits at EA?

[MoJoBehaumat]

I would kick the shit out of Granny Doris and her synthetic hip on Mario Kart...
at least I better or all hope will be lost

[crashedout]

Looked pretty limited to me, ableit it is an early version. Limited plays, and the passing seemed like the gesture just replaces a button press...what is the point? Not impressed yet....

[Mr.Green]

how many 72 year old women gamers does anybody here know???
I bet a total of less that 2
72 years old is pushing it a bit but if it makes it easier and especially more fun for my 38 year old wife then that'll be great. Gaming isn't too complicated when you really have an interest for it and you dedicate yourself to it, but for her to just spend a little time with her man and his precious hobby it is a bit overwhelming.

[Lon Lon Rabbit]

Besides, if online games were dominated by pensioners rather than grubby, hate-filled, potty-mouthed 9 year olds, they might be more fun :)

I dunno, some of those old ladies have pretty foul mouthes... (http://oghc.blogspot.com/)

[Mike Jones]

Looks Like Madden Gamecube to me. Shouldn't it look better?

http://i.i.com.com/cnet.g2/images/2006/127/932733_20060508_screen007.jpg

[MoJoBehaumat]

acctually............
it does look exactly like the cube version...hmmmmmm

[EternalGamer]

I think EA is overdoing it with the gestures. They need to keep it simple. Make the passing a actual passing motion and make the ball go further the harder you throw. That makes sense to anybody. And maybe make it to where you can point the pointer at a reciever to target them. Everything else is just confusing and unintuitive. It can be more intuitive and fun, they just have to implement it properly. This looks like it's trying WAY too hard.

[Steele Johnson]

Which part fails the Mike Jones Intuitive Test (c)? The part where you throw the ball by making a throwing motion? Or the part where you point at players and tell them where to go instead of remembering button combos for audibles?

/granted, the "shake the controller to break a tackle" thing sounds ominous.

nice one lol

[danhoo]

I think EA is overdoing it with the gestures. They need to keep it simple. Make the passing a actual passing motion and make the ball go further the harder you throw. That makes sense to anybody. And maybe make it to where you can point the pointer at a reciever to target them. Everything else is just confusing and unintuitive. It can be more intuitive and fun, they just have to implement it properly. This looks like it's trying WAY too hard.

Agreed. This is my big fear about the Wii. That some 3rd party developers, in attempts to "distinguish" their games, toss in a badly thought-out Wii controller scheme at the last minute that just isn't intuitive and fun. People see this and start to blame the controller instead of the game implementation. Bad things follow.

[Morratut]

I wasn't convinced of the Wii controller before I saw this video. Now my fears have been realised. :(

At this moment in time i'm in the camp of mse/keyb and controller.

[Kamalot]

Looks Like Madden Gamecube to me. Shouldn't it look better?Since when was anyone praising the graphical capabilities of Wii? If you want the same game but slightly better looking, look to the PS3 or 360. If you want new, unique ways of playing, look for Wii.

If you want both, get a Wii60 or a PSWii.

[TheBrainKills]

I think EA is overdoing it with the gestures. They need to keep it simple. Make the passing a actual passing motion and make the ball go further the harder you throw. That makes sense to anybody. And maybe make it to where you can point the pointer at a receiver to target them. Everything else is just confusing and unintuitive. It can be more intuitive and fun, they just have to implement it properly. This looks like it's trying WAY too hard.

Um.. did you watch the video? That is what they did, they have used the acceleration as a control of lobing, regular or bullet passing as he demonstrated. You use the D pad to determine what receiver to target and throw the ball, how much easier can it get. You can not use the pointer to target because that would be way too hard and slow under gameplay situations. It looked very intuitive but I think that there will be a learning curve to master it.

I have never bought a Madden game but I will be after seeing this footage, the graphics look good, the animations look smooth, and the controls look intuitive.

Of course we will wait for the game to be released and see what the response is.

[Mike Jones]

Since when was anyone praising the graphical capabilities of Wii? If you want the same game but slightly better looking, look to the PS3 or 360. If you want new, unique ways of playing, look for Wii.



So the controller tacks on the extra 150$ . It's a freaking Gamecube peripheral. Bottom Line.

[midrael]

Actually, and I get the feeling I'm alone on this, but that looked pretty fun to me. I don't own a single Madden game, because they've never interested me. That, however, seemed pretty entertaining to me. The control scheme certainly seemed simple enough to me. I'm not a big sports game fan, nor a huge fan of EA in general, but it piqued my interest. I'm pretty sure that's the point of the Wii in general is to broaden the market.

[pavlovscow]

Well this pretty much confirms what I thought about Wii. Bad graphics and horrible control for sports games. That looked absolutely horrible. Somehow that is more intuitive that a regular controller?

I've been criticizing EA's Madden Wii game since I saw it at E3. In about 10 minutes, a normal gamer can come with ways to make the Wii experience awesome for Madden. Yet, it seems that the creative geniuses at EA can only imagine using the Wii controller to mimick game movement.

[Kamalot]

So the controller tacks on the extra 150$ . It's a freaking Gamecube peripheral. Bottom Line.
I'd rather pay an extra $150 for a system that allows new and fun ways of gaming, built-in wireless, the ability to play 20 years of games than have to pay an extra $350 for a system that plays the same games I already have but looks better.

But hey, if all you are looking for is upgraded graphics, I'm sure some company will be happy to take your money.

[Goronmon]

Please stop replying to Mike Jones when he makes comments like that. He repeats most of his posts almost word for word from previous trolls, and I wouldn't be surprised if he copied the trolls from other people from other boards before that.

Plus, I can't ignore him if everyone quotes him. :p

[Siraris]

This is what I was worried about with the Wii. I thought with a game like Madden, it would be cool if you could use the controller to allow you to perform motions from the game. Watching this video, it just seems like a total gimick to me. The graphics actually look really impressive, but how are the motions that you use to pass, hike, or shake off a tackle any improvement on gameplay? Because I can flick the controller back to hike, and flick it forward to throw? That just seems like a gimicky way to hit the A button.

If people don't get what I'm saying, I apologize, as it's hard to verbalize the motions I"m thinking of, but this just seems silly. Red Steel sounds like what I was thinking of for the Wii, where you swing the sword around like you would a real sword. This isn't realistic at all, it just seems "gimicky" That's the only word I can think of, and what I was worried most about with the Wii. Gimicky controls != better gameplay. When I think of controls that add immersion, I think of the power pad, or the Gun-Con.

It may just be this particular game, but I'm not that impressed. I also agree with bap that it seems to be slower to do the motions and whatnot, which is going to be a HUGE deal when you're about to be tackled, or if you're playing a game like Call of Duty where you're about to be killed and you need to reload or shoot.

[Gamasutra Podcast]

I actually thought the graphics looked pretty good. Better than I was expecting anyway. The only thing about the control scheme is it'll be a lot slower to do things. Not only because you'll have to relearn the controls but because the actual motions of doing things takes longer.
I fear that for the first round of third-party Wii titles, we will see an awful lot of poor interface choices regarding the Wiimote's velocity sensing / position and motion tracking capabilities. Like on the DS, most developers are intrigued by novel interface schemes. But some perhaps miss the point that the underlying ethos of the input device is intuitive control.

As some posters have noted, the measure of this is rather subjective. But in my book, if it interferes with game play, or I have to think about it too much, or fiddle with the remote too much, it ain't intuitive. I hope it won't take more than one or two software cycles to figure out how to use these features to their best effect...

Heck, this isn't anything new. Back in the day, my buddies and I used to include meatspace body checking in NHL '93 as part of the game play experience. The rule was, you could only check your couchmate when your on-screen avatar checked an opponent.

Enforcement and penalties to rule violations were loose as a wingman's teeth, to say the least. :D

(Looking back in the posts, I more or less restated danhoo's post with more florid grammar. /* tip of hat to danhoo... */ )

[Mike Jones]

I'd rather pay an extra $150 for a system that allows new and fun ways of gaming, built-in wireless, the ability to play 20 years of games .


You have to pay to play those 20 years of games so it's alot more than $150. PS3 is compatible with PS2 and PS1 so you only buy the game once unless they have made an NES / SN / GC / N64 adaptor that I haven't heard about that is free with the Wii you lose :D

[Ondo]

Just thought I'd point this out: The whole thing about the Wii controller being more "intuitive" has always been bunk. Eight year olds don't have a problem with a traditional controller after spending an hour with it, they have always been perfectly intuitive.
My first real video game was Super Mario Bros., and I always jerked the controller upwards when I pressed the jump button. That's all the evidence I need that the Wii controls could be more intuitive.

[Kamalot]

You have to pay to play those 20 years of games so it's alot more than $150. PS3 is compatible with PS2 and PS1 so you only buy the game once unless they have made an NES / SN / GC / N64 adaptor that I haven't heard about that is free with the Wii you lose :D
Wii will play any GameCube games I have. I never owned the earlier Nintendo consoles, so I don't have a stockpile of old games like you do.

I bet the cost of Wii plus a very large back catalog of virtual console games will be cheaper than any model of the PS3.

[NeoSuplex]

I don't think the controls are all that Gimiky really. They could be more intuitive for sure (It seems like it'll be too hard to choose recievers when your hand is cocked into a pass... Why not just pass at them?) but This isn't really a game you can compare to Red Steel. Football isn't played with a Sword, Gun, and you don't even alwys have a ball in your hand (Even if you did, you don't Swing or Point it). Raising the 'Arm' for an interception, Snapping your 'Feet' in diffrent directions to juke... those seem like very intuitive uses of the accelerometer. Really the only things I'm not sure about are not just using the Analog Stick for normal running, the "Choose before the play goes" passing and the "HEY! I'm doing this one!" pointer based play selection. Everything else seems like it could be solid... we'll have to wait and see.

But don't automaticly hear Gestures and groan. When properly used and implemented, they fit well. I cant wait to run a passing play with the main remote tucked back while I juke with the Nunchuck before lowering my hand out of passing position and deciding to run it.

[Goronmon]

You have to pay to play those 20 years of games so it's alot more than $150. PS3 is compatible with PS2 and PS1 so you only buy the game once unless they have made an NES / SN / GC / N64 adaptor that I haven't heard about that is free with the Wii you lose.Wii will play GC and all the others are cartidges. And the NES and SNES were around long before the PS1. Quit being stupid.

[Siraris]

Wii will play any GameCube games I have. I never owned the earlier Nintendo consoles, so I don't have a stockpile of old games like you do.

I bet the cost of Wii plus a very large back catalog of virtual console games will be cheaper than any model of the PS3.

I can understand a lot of peoples rationals for buying things, but not this one. You can download every single NES/SNES/Gameboy game ever made onto your computer and emulate it for free, and you have been able to do this for years now. Hell, you can do genesis, neo geo, intelivision, atari, etc. etc.

Why would you want to PAY money for these games? My friend has his X-Box filled with emulators, and although some games are fun to play every once in a while, I'd never pay money for them anymore. Most of the ones I played, I couldn't even believe that in one point in time I enjoyed playing them. Games have come such an incredibly long way since NES, and with all the great games that are out now, I'm curious why the idea of playing 20 year old games interests you?

And I just want to clarify, I'm not saying that these games don't bring back a lot of great memories, it's just compared to todays games, the graphics are awful, the controls are usually frustrating, and the gameplay is a bit lacking. Playing SNES games aren't bad, but anything before then is pretty toretureous.

[Kamalot]

I can understand a lot of peoples rationals for buying things, but not this one. You can download every single NES/SNES/Gameboy game ever made onto your computer and emulate it for free, and you have been able to do this for years now. Hell, you can do genesis, neo geo, intelivision, atari, etc. etc.

Why would you want to PAY money for these games? My friend has his X-Box filled with emulators, and although some games are fun to play every once in a while, I'd never pay money for them anymore. Most of the ones I played, I couldn't even believe that in one point in time I enjoyed playing them. Games have come such an incredibly long way since NES, and with all the great games that are out now, I'm curious why the idea of playing 20 year old games interests you?
I could say the same things about movies. Sure, I know people who download movies off of bittorrent all day long. Why on earth would you want to PAY to watch something. Sure, a movie is fun to watch, but you probably won't watch it much more than once, why bother paying for it.

How about music? People have LONG been able to download music online without having to pay for it. Why bother paying for music, that's crazy talk!

Or why bother making yur bed in the morning, you're just gonna mess it up again when you go to bed at night.

Maybe I am okay with paying for things that I use/enjoy becuase it is the RIGHT thing to do?

[Siraris]

I could say the same things about movies. Sure, I know people who download movies off of bittorrent all day long. Why on earth would you want to PAY to watch something. Sure, a movie is fun to watch, but you probably won't watch it much more than once, why bother paying for it.

How about music? People have LONG been able to download music online without having to pay for it. Why bother paying for music, that's crazy talk!

Or why bother making yur bed in the morning, you're just gonna mess it up again when you go to bed at night.

Maybe I am okay with paying for things that I use/enjoy becuase it is the RIGHT thing to do?

There's a difference, you cannot buy NES games anymore through most retail chains. I don't think they even sell them used at Gamestop anymore. You can buy DVD's, and music from retail stores, whether or not it's Itunes or Best Buy. If a DVD is too old, it loses it's Copyright and it becomes part of the public domain. There are websites where you can go and download movies like that.

So, at this point, I could be wrong, but I don't think you're breaking any laws by downloading NES games, since you cannot purchase them redily in the store. I am not saying you should download a GBA emulator, or a DS emulator, or a PS1 emulator, since you can still find those games in stores, but does anyone really expect a customer to search for weeks or months to find a copy of a game that isn't even new?

And to be honest, I think making your bed is utterly ridiculous. What's the point of waking up, making your bed, going to work, and coming home to a made bed? Not only are you going to get it messy later, but who the hell is going to see it nice and made unless you have someone over who you are trying to impress with your nicely made bed? I've always felt that making ones bed was one of the silliest things you could do.

[Kamalot]

There's a difference, you cannot buy NES games anymore through most retail chains. I don't think they even sell them used at Gamestop anymore. You can buy DVD's, and music from retail stores, whether or not it's Itunes or Best Buy. If a DVD is too old, it loses it's Copyright and it becomes part of the public domain. There are websites where you can go and download movies like that.

So, at this point, I could be wrong, but I don't think you're breaking any laws by downloading NES games, since you cannot purchase them readily in the store. I am not saying you should download a GBA emulator, or a DS emulator, or a PS1 emulator, since you can still find those games in stores, but does anyone really expect a customer to search for weeks or months to find a copy of a game that isn't even new?

And to be honest, I think making your bed is utterly ridiculous. What's the point of waking up, making your bed, going to work, and coming home to a made bed? Not only are you going to get it messy later, but who the hell is going to see it nice and made unless you have someone over who you are trying to impress with your nicely made bed? I've always felt that making ones bed was one of the silliest things you could do.
I am sorry, but you are wrong about downloading NES games. Even if you can't buy the game in the store, someone holds the rights to that game.

People like to play older games. If they didn't, PS3 wouldn't be able to play PS2 or PS1 games and there wouldn't be emulators. By the very fact of suggesting I use an emulator, you are validating that some people like to play older games.

If you haven't noticed, lots of companies re-package their older games and sell them for newer systems. This is akin to being to buy older movies on DVD. When Casablanca was filmed, there was no DVD distribution, but the copyright holders continually re-sell older movies on new formats.

What you are seeing now is the digital distribution of older games on newer consoles.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of emulation, provided it is done legally. What you are suggesting though, is stealing. I know you don't have any moral qualms about lying(* (http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16802&page=1&pp=300)), but learning you endorse stealing is new to me.

[EternalGamer]

And that's not to mention the backwardness of his justification. He says that there is a difference between downloading songs and music because those media are readily available for purchase. Therefore (his argument goes) making them available in the store makes downloading them for free unacceptable. But then when companies are proposing the release older games to make them readily available, he says that it isn't a great idea precisely because they are not the same as those other media in that they are not readily available. Circular logic at its finest.

[Kamalot]

And that's not to mention the backwardness of his justification. He says that there is a difference between downloading songs and music because those media are readily available for purchase. Therefore (his argument goes) making them available in the store makes downloading them for free unacceptable. But then when companies are proposing the release older games to make them readily available, he says that it isn't a great idea precisely because they are not the same as those other media in that they are not readily available. Circular logic at its finest.
Oh snap! I was too dizzy to catch that. :D

Thanks!

[divinechaos]

I thought I read somewhere that a lot of the downloadable games will have updates graphix and xtras. To me, thats a good reason to buy those games again. As for those who criticize the graphics, I know that the Rev isn't a graphical powerhouse but wait till the first party titles come out. Its fuckin Madden people... that game NEVER looked good.

[Siraris]

And that's not to mention the backwardness of his justification. He says that there is a difference between downloading songs and music because those media are readily available for purchase. Therefore (his argument goes) making them available in the store makes downloading them for free unacceptable. But then when companies are proposing the release older games to make them readily available, he says that it isn't a great idea precisely because they are not the same as those other media in that they are not readily available. Circular logic at its finest.

I said that it is different downloading music and movies if they are readily available online or in the store, than if they aren't available. It's more likely that I can sign onto iTunes and find some obscure track that I'm looking for, than if I'm looking for some obscure video game, like Doki Doki Panic. I can't go walk into Best Buy, pick up a copy of Doki Doki Panic, take it up to the front counter and pay for it. I doubt that I could go to a store in Japan and do that either. So let's say I really want to play the game, what do I do? Search endlessly online to buy it from someone else, hope to find it at a garage sale, download an emulator and the game, or just never play it?

I also highly doubt that Kamalot is the boyscout that he paints himself out to be. He links to the thread where I claim that lieing is not black and white, there are grey areas, and that sometimes I condone lieing, but I am a bad person for saying this. I then say that I think it's ok if you download old games you cannot buy in a store, or in any other place online, and he says "Oh, I am a big fan of emulation when it is done legally". I'm sorry, I doubt there's anyone out there who says they are a fan of emulation, but doesn't download games that people still own the rights to. Obviously I cannot prove it in Kamalots case that he has downloaded emulated games that are not part of the common domain, but I'm willing to bet the odds are over 99% that he has, just like everyone else. Hell, I'd be willing to bet that Alberto Gonzalez has illegally downloaded MP3's on his computer, or a burned DVD he got from a buddy.

I shouldn't have even started this discussion, as it will just be an attack on me because I believe that not everything is cut and dry. So I'll return to the real question I had; why are you so interested in buying 20 year old games, that are extremely outdated, especially with the plethora of games you could buy today?

[divinechaos]

I shouldn't have even started this discussion, as it will just be an attack on me because I believe that not everything is cut and dry. So I'll return to the real question I had; why are you so interested in buying 20 year old games, that are extremely outdated, especially with the plethora of games you could buy today?

As for me, I love it when I play a game that I played years ago with my friends. A lot of of it has to do with memories but the games are also fun as hell. In the last 3 months i bought MK3, Street Fighter 2, Killer Instinct, Pokemon Yellow, Battletoads and Contra 3. I haven't played Hogan's Alley or Duck Hunt so I'm DYING to buy the Rev JUST to play those games.

I think you are discrediting old school video games only because they have outdated graphics and maybe don't follow your standard of "fun video games"? Just wondering, did you grow up with the NES or are you from a much newer generation of gaming?

[Kamalot]

So I'll return to the real question I had; why are you so interested in buying 20 year old games, that are extremely outdated, especially with the plethora of games you could buy today?
Some music is great, no matter how old it is.
Some movies are great, no matter how old they are.
Some games are great, no matter how old they are.

[Siraris]

As for me, I love it when I play a game that I played years ago with my friends. A lot of of it has to do with memories but the games are also fun as hell. In the last 3 months i bought MK3, Street Fighter 2, Killer Instinct, Pokemon Yellow, Battletoads and Contra 3. I haven't played Hogan's Alley or Duck Hunt so I'm DYING to buy the Rev JUST to play those games.

I think you are discrediting old school video games only because they have outdated graphics and maybe don't follow your standard of "fun video games"? Just wondering, did you grow up with the NES or are you from a much newer generation of gaming?

I'm in no way discrediting old school games. I just replayed through FF1 for the first time since it came out for the original NES. I started playing games about 21 years ago (Intelivision and PC, and then NES). I have some of my fondest memories from back then, although most happen to be from PC games, as that was the majority of my gaming experience (Kings Quest, Police Quest, Space Quest, Heros Quest, etc. etc.).

I just played some older games the other night, as I said, and they just didn't do anything for me. My friend loves to break out Yars Revenge and play it, and I think it's the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen. I STILL don't get that game. We were playing different shooters (with ships, not FPS :P), some action games, etc. Many were painful for me to look at, the controls were frustrating, and it just wasn't that great of an experience. As I said, I have no problem playing SNES games, but before that, it's difficult. I actually replayed Space Quest 1 a year ago, and I beat it in maybe 25 minutes without any guide. It just wasn't an enjoyable experience. Gaming was in its infancy, and there were a LOT of rough edges. I'll never want to give up the memories, but the games themselves just leave a lot to be desired in my book.

There are so many games that I want to play that have come out in the past year or two, why do I want to play games that are decades old? If I want to play a game of Donkey Kong, I can download it and play it a few times on an emulator and remember the good old days.

We also have no clue what games will be available to download, do we? We have no clue the prices as well. Nintendo has been re-releasing this stuff for years. You can buy old school collection games on X-Box, PC, Gamecube and PS2, you can buy old Nintendo games for your GBA or DS, you can buy one of those Joystiq thingies that you hook up to your TV and allow you to play old Atari games, and you get like 15 games for 10 bucks. Why do I need another way to buy ancient games, that I'll play once in a blue moon? It just doesn't make sense to me when most people don't have enough time to play the games that are out today, AND they have the option to download the ROM's for free and play every once in a while (even though I'll get flamed for encouraging "stealing" and "copyright infringement".

[Kamalot]

...you can buy one of those Joystiq thingies that you hook up to your TV and allow you to play old Atari games, and you get like 15 games for 10 bucks. Why do I need another way to buy ancient games, that I'll play once in a blue moon?
Those little joystick things sell amazingly well. Last holiday season, those little joysticks outsold all console sales, combined. Nintendo has never made a joystick you can plug into your TV. Wii fills that role for them.

I've never seen the purpose of the little joysticks, but apparently a lot of people like them. I don't like the idea of having to hook something up to my TV (projector) every time I want to play. With Wii, I'll have it hooked up all the time anyway.

[NeoSuplex]

Siraris... You're saying it's OK to get Emulators for Old Games that you can't get legally.

Nintendo is making it so that you can get these games legally.

By your own logic, once VC is it's no longer acceptable to use Emulation to purchase these games. So are you critisising VC for making it unaccptable to play these games for free or for trying to make money off of their IPs? Or is it something else? I'm really trying to understand here...




Yeah, I misspelled critisising. Ask me how much I care.

[EternalGamer]

I shouldn't have even started this discussion, as it will just be an attack on me because I believe that not everything is cut and dry. So I'll return to the real question I had; why are you so interested in buying 20 year old games, that are extremely outdated, especially with the plethora of games you could buy today?

Hey man, I don't really care whether or not you want to play virtual console games. It is definitely not the biggest draw of the Wii for me (though I think it's a nice bonus). I was just pointing out that your logic was circular (and still is).

[Siraris]

Siraris... You're saying it's OK to get Emulators for Old Games that you can't get legally.

Nintendo is making it so that you can get these games legally.

By your own logic, once VC is it's no longer acceptable to use Emulation to purchase these games. So are you critisising VC for making it unaccptable to play these games for free or for trying to make money off of their IPs? Or is it something else? I'm really trying to understand here...


Yeah, I misspelled critisising. Ask me how much I care.

I think that once VC comes out, depending on prices, people should not use emulation to play games that they can readily get off the VC (if they have a Wii). I say depending on prices because if Nintendo charges $15 bucks for the original Mario, I'll vomit. But if they charge $2.50 for the game, or $5 (at most) then whatever, if you really like Mario that much, then grab it for $5 instead of getting it for emulation.

The point is, some games you will not be able to find anywhere, so how can you be expected to not use emulation? I don't think anyone believes that every single game ever made for NES or SNES or whatever other systems are available on the VC, will be available for purchase. Does that mean I should just say, "Man I love game x, but unfortunately I cannot purchase it anywhere, so I'll just never play it again"? I think that's absolutely ludicrous to make someone do that just because they can't find it for purchase.

My point is, if something is readily available for purchase, and you want it, go buy it. If something is not readily available - such as right now when the VC is not out and you cannot buy NES carts anymore - you should be able to go out and download an emulator to play your favorite games. After the VC comes out, it's a morality issue, and no one has any control over that.

[bitwise]

There's a difference, you cannot buy NES games anymore through most retail chains.

Really? I thought Nintendo was still releasing original NES games for the GBA at US$20 a pop. I can certainly understand if people don't think 20 bucks is a reasonable price to pay, but quit talking like these games are abandonware. I could walk down to my local Fry's and find a copy of the original metroid on the shelf tommorow if I felt like it.

Also, part of the virtual console's entire purpose is to create a "retail chain" for those old properties. Since those old games have a very difficult time competing for actual shelf space at retail outlets, the virtual console gives them a place to go. I'm sure many rights holders for older NES and SNES games who aren't willing to commit a lot of money to placing their games on the shelves will be quite eager to purchase distribution on the virtual console.

What happens when that time comes? Will your friend stop pirating those games? If he does, then I suspect he really was doing it because he would be willing to pay if the option was available. In that case, I couldn't really fault the guy for doing so, since those games are not available in any other way. But if he doesn't, then it's quite disingenous of you to use the abandonware argument to justify pirating those games. No moral high ground to be claimed that way.

Also, the virtual console is an exciting prospect to someone like me, who develops games in sort of a one-man-studio. It requires a huge capital investment to get discs or cartidges pressed for your game, and it's only likely to sit on the shelf at a retail outlet for a few months if you're lucky. The virtual console (and things like xbox arcade) are great ways for the little guy to get his stuff out there in a way that he can actually afford. If only I didn't have to use Visual C to program xbox arcade games... bleh...

[NeoSuplex]

Gotcha...

What's all this then?

I can understand a lot of peoples rationals for buying things, but not this one. You can download every single NES/SNES/Gameboy game ever made onto your computer and emulate it for free, and you have been able to do this for years now. Hell, you can do genesis, neo geo, intelivision, atari, etc. etc.

Here we can clearly see you questioning the value of VC based on stealing. Let me repost the question in a diffrent manner. What does theft have to do with the inherent value of something? I can understand how you don't think it's worth buying. I don't think SFII is worth buying on XBLA (and it has nothing to do with how much I suck at it...). But where does theft come into the picture?

Rejected rewordings: "Are you an idiot?", "Are you a fuggin' idiot?", "You are an idiot.... ?"

[EvoG]

Actually, and I get the feeling I'm alone on this, but that looked pretty fun to me. I don't own a single Madden game, because they've never interested me. That, however, seemed pretty entertaining to me. The control scheme certainly seemed simple enough to me. I'm not a big sports game fan, nor a huge fan of EA in general, but it piqued my interest. I'm pretty sure that's the point of the Wii in general is to broaden the market.

No friend, not alone.

The last Madden game I played religiously was Madden '91 for the Genesis (http://www.eidolons-inn.net/segabase/GMD-MaddenNFL91%28U%29_box.jpg). Never again...I honestly haven't touched a football game since, and what you just said is exactly what I've been rather incredulously expounding about the Wii version, and that I will be getting after seeing this video...my first football game in 15 years. :eek:

Being a graphics whore myself, I think Wii Madden looks great. While its hard for me to get past poor or clearly 'dated' graphics, there's a point where it no longer becomes a hinderance, and this easily falls into that category (I mean RE4 on GC people...come on). So play in this case trumps the clear graphic superiority of Madden 07 on the 360.