Valve Changing Counter-Strike [Archive]

Varsity

08-12-2006, 12:37 AM

Uh-oh.

Soon, we'll be releasing the first in a series of updates to Counter-Strike: Source which will be focused on moving the core Counter-Strike gameplay forward.

...

The second facet of this release will be a completely reworked radar system. There will be a significant change to the aesthetics of the radar, but there are also some fairly significant gameplay ramifications to the new system. One example: when you look directly at an enemy for a long enough time for their name to appear on your screen, everyone on your team will be able to see that enemy in the radar. We're planning on releasing this first update in about two weeks.Read the entire update (http://www.steampowered.com/Steam/Marketing/message/718/), and view a screen of the HDR'ed de_train.

CS might be tired and stale, but it's important to remember that its players are, too. A lot of people are about to start getting very angry...

Mozgus

08-12-2006, 01:13 AM

CS might be tired and stale, but it's important to remember that its players are, too. A lot of people are about to start getting very angry...
Fuck those people. CS:S needs to stop following the same tired gameplay or else it will always lurk in the shadows of the innovative team based FPS games.

Fyd

08-12-2006, 01:20 AM

flinxz

08-12-2006, 01:26 AM

Is this a case of fixing what is not broken?

I played my share of the game and I agree that it did get stale (as stated above), however does it still not have a huge player population?

Heretic Machine

08-12-2006, 01:28 AM

Meh... anything that pisses off the twelve year old CS-boys is fine by me.

flinxz

08-12-2006, 01:48 AM

Meh... anything that pisses off the twelve year old CS-boys is fine by me.

I did not think of it like that.

Bring on the changes!!!

MAbans

08-12-2006, 02:03 AM

Doesn't seem too insane, its opening up a new dynamic of possibly people playing a scout position according to that statement. Cool. Seriously i think CS.S players will be open to the idea of the gameplay changes than cs 1.6 players.

With the introduction of the Havok Physics engine players now take cabinets and use them to block enterances or baracade themselves in to areas to keep hostages from getting rescued. I would like to see more fundmental changes to the game play in general but then again team fortress 2 is due out soon so that should be cool. Should be cool.

Captain Awesome

08-12-2006, 02:33 AM

Been playing CS since its first beta days and I love whats been done to it even up till now. I welcome what Valve wants to do to help it maintain a fresh style if possible.

People are going to bitch either way. They bitch if they don't update it and they bitch if they do.

Zeal

08-12-2006, 02:42 AM

Fuck Counter-Strike.

MasterEvilAce

08-12-2006, 02:44 AM

I am a CS:S player. I hate CS 1.6. I am open to the changes of CS:S. Anything that adds new elements to the game is a good thing. They tried it a few times but the whiny bitches always complained "WTF RIOT SHIELDS WTF"

etc.

People just want games to be too easy these days

Dr Quincy

08-12-2006, 02:59 AM

Radar changes are all well and good, but when are they adding the light sabres?

MrWonderstuff

08-12-2006, 03:02 AM

Fuck Counter-Strike.

Zeal. Eloquent post. Refined. Thoughtful. Insightful. Provacative. The scrawls of frustrated teenager.

Varsity

08-12-2006, 03:07 AM

Zeal. Eloquent post. Refined. Thoughtful. Insightful. Provacative. The scrawls of frustrated teenager.
Ever heard of ignore lists?

Fyd

08-12-2006, 03:29 AM

I loved shields dunno why people hate it, easy games are for easy minds, and people who plays css never change :) (i played since first beta and get bored with css)

saneman

08-12-2006, 03:44 AM

CS might be tired and stale, but it's important to remember that its players are, too.

With due respect to everyone else who has ever said anything at all on evilavatar.com, but that's about the coolest comment I've ever seen on this site. Still laughing.

Paranoia

08-12-2006, 04:24 AM

Hey that's cool. Now I know where most of my enemies will be camping/attacking.

And fuck those anti-CS losers!

Suicidal ShiZuru

08-12-2006, 04:32 AM

CSS is the only game I play regularly. Im good at it which adds to my enjoyment I suppose. To explain I hated it when I first started, I forced myself to get better at it and I play it every day now. I rarely play the regular maps and gametypes, they do get old fast. Surfing, fy, glass, climb, aim maps and others are fun fun fun fun! The massive amount of modded servers and custom maps makes the game never boring imo. As I said I hated it when I first started because I sucked. A lot of people seem to hate it because they suck and blame hit boxes and hackzers or whatever they pull out their asses. To each his own but CSS is the most diverse multiplayer FPS out.

About the assumption that most CS/S players are obnoxious kids, its pretty true if you play on shitty servers.

The radar is fairly useless unless you dont have audio or have no idea what youre doing, and for the record HDR looks like shit.

~Seems like everyone bashing CS in this thread has never even played it...

Majster Wichajster

08-12-2006, 04:38 AM

I'm all for it. It will also be helpful for the deaf since talking through the microphone and giving away their position is a tad hard for the hearing-impaired.

It's a like a living, writhing fetus that sentence above. Hopefully you get the gist of it.

Lunar Blue

08-12-2006, 05:39 AM

This goes for all multiplayer FPS games: people, a lot of em, get angry when you change stuff. Public players mostly don't even notice but clans, now there's a bunch of fucking crybabies. These guys don't realize that the effects nerf/boost everyones game, not just their clans. Afraid years of honing their ub3r1337 bunnyhoppinskilz0rz go in vain if even the tinyest of thing is altered. Take BF2 for example: the awful prone->crouch->jump->prone whoring is supposedly going to be taken out. This thing has taken a toll on bf2 since it's release and now that it's being removed finally, these guys are all tears cause honestly, that's where their "skill" lies in. Pressing their script button to make the player bounce and prone in mid air like a fucking narc in need of a fix.

I say go with the changes. And if on the side a few thousand bitches start crying, all the better.

Å®ÇTÌ¢ VåmÞ‡®Ë

08-12-2006, 06:59 AM

CS might be tired and stale, but it's important to remember that its players

As someone who plays CS:S on a regular basis, FUCK YOU..
Any game gets old and stale..
As for CS:S,go check Xfire and see what game is getting the #2 playtime..
Right under a game you pay a fee for..
If you goto shitty servers, with no admins who don't watch their servers yes you will find those ignorant asshats who love to try and ruin people fun..

I've always wondered why do Halo and CS get teh asshats more then anything..

I play on well admin'd servers or my clans pub :)
I don't have a problem with the "normal" CS:S players as I just ban most of them :)
on Topic:
As for changing the radar, who gives a shit..
ooo I can see someone on my radar if my teammate holds their cursor on them for a short ammount of time
Why wouldn't my teammate just KILL said enemy ??
Only thing radar is useful for is when a teammate, on a pub, that dies you can GUESS where they were..
Big deal..

As for adding HDR to de_train, oooo more crap I can turn off in train..
As for fixing the map, YEAH no more invisowalls blocking my shots :)
Other then that, I've waited how many months for an update that doesn't suck..

Guess I'll keep waiting, so many other things in this game need to get fixed and they add HDR.. :confused:

Slack3r78

08-12-2006, 07:00 AM

This thing has taken a toll on bf2 since it's release and now that it's being removed finally, these guys are all tears cause honestly, that's where their "skill" lies in. Pressing their script button to make the player bounce and prone in mid air like a fucking narc in need of a fix.
Jesus, that's still in the game? I haven't really played BF2 in months, but that's something Dice has been promising they were going to fix since before the first expansion came out.

F3nyx

08-12-2006, 07:16 AM

This is the "new gameplay"???? i never watch the radar!!! heheeh, its useless for me, in bf2 yes of course, but in css, for what? :O, i think css need a very big update and not this, more maps...., the gameplay is going to be the same, css = team deathmatch, i think css is dead.Uh, maybe they're trying to make the radar less useless and give people a reason to watch it? You think broken parts of the game should be left alone, rather than updated?

I rarely play the regular maps and gametypes, they do get old fast. Surfing, fy, glass, climb, aim maps and others are fun fun fun fun! The massive amount of modded servers and custom maps makes the game never boring imo.If you're a big fan of tremendously shitty custom content, you should start playing UT and its sequels, they've got that in spades.

As for changing the radar, who gives a shit..
ooo I can see someone on my radar if my teammate holds their cursor on them for a short ammount of time
Why wouldn't my teammate just KILL said enemy ??
Only thing radar is useful for is when a teammate, on a pub, that dies you can GUESS where they were..
Big deal..I'm amazed at how set in your ways you are. You can't conceive that a spotter could change the tactical situation. Think about this: your spotter sees the entire enemy team moving toward a chokepoint. Option A: He fires at them immediately, kills a few, and then gets killed himself by return fire. Option B: He acquires them all on radar and doesn't fire a shot. Your team now knows the exact position of all enemies for the rest of the game. They can now set up an extremely effective ambush and use the blips to hunt down survivors.

You're the epitome of the "old and stale" CS player that Varsity mentioned (and beautifully, might I add).

bean19

08-12-2006, 07:54 AM

<----Usually in the top 3 or #1 in any match and I have never used the radar except when looking for a dropped bomb while playing a T.

Lunar Blue

08-12-2006, 07:58 AM

Jesus, that's still in the game? I haven't really played BF2 in months, but that's something Dice has been promising they were going to fix since before the first expansion came out.

Hah, yeah it was "fixed". It takes like a second for the prone button to work again after being used. It didn't take long for people to notice that you can just get up from prone by pressing crouch, then just press prone again and there you go :rolleyes:

Draft

08-12-2006, 08:27 AM

How about they just leave regular CS alone and make CS2?

Logik

08-12-2006, 08:32 AM

I'm amazed at how set in your ways you are. You can't conceive that a spotter could change the tactical situation. Think about this: your spotter sees the entire enemy team moving toward a chokepoint. Option A: He fires at them immediately, kills a few, and then gets killed himself by return fire. Option B: He acquires them all on radar and doesn't fire a shot. Your team now knows the exact position of all enemies for the rest of the game. They can now set up an extremely effective ambush and use the blips to hunt down survivors.
I don't believe you install homing beacons just by looking at people. I'm sure it just blips their position at that moment and maybe follows them while they're in sight.

BloodPack

08-12-2006, 08:38 AM

bean19

08-12-2006, 08:54 AM

I use the radar a lot actually. It shows me where my teammates are guarding or rushing, and if they die then I know where the enemy is. What people dont realize is that FPS games are 70% strategy (be that using sound, map knowledge or radar) and 30% your accuracy.

Also I don't think there will be as large of an outcry as some people expect. I mean its not like Source is in CPL or other competitve events for money, that honor is still held by 1.6.

You are correct, and the thing is, I don't need radar to tell me what other people are doing because I can tell by sound and by map knowledge. The thing is, I generally play the strategies that pay-off the best. On offense, I take the route that is generally least defended and rush so that I can flank people and get "free" kills. On defense, I hold the most forward defensive position, get off a few well aimed shots and fall back to the next defensive position (modifying the places I defend based on the weapons I can afford and sometimes rushing to flank the attackers if they ignore a fast flank route or send a man solo down it). Both of these strategies work against large or small forces. The goal of CS is to minimize your exposure and maximize the enemies.

One thing you forgot is that in clan play everyone is using voice comm to indicate where the enemy is at anyway, and if you have a strat worked out then you generally know who is getting fired on and from what direction by the sound of the gunfire.

F3nyx

08-12-2006, 08:55 AM

I don't believe you install homing beacons just by looking at people. I'm sure it just blips their position at that moment and maybe follows them while they're in sight.If you're right, then yeah, this wouldn't be very useful. But the news post doesn't make it very clear, so I'm holding out hope :)

Carnisaur

08-12-2006, 09:41 AM

<----Usually in the top 3 or #1 in any match and I have never used the radar except when looking for a dropped bomb while playing a T.

It would be nice if the radar were a lttle more useful then, wouldn't it?

bean19

08-12-2006, 12:58 PM

It would be nice if the radar were a lttle more useful then, wouldn't it?

Not really. I don't guess I explained it well, but putting blips on there that aren't the bomb are really irrelevant as I already KNOW where the other players are unless they are camping, and then I know how to flush them out.

Still, I don't think the feature will hurt gameplay either. If it makes radar useful for people than more power to them, but I think it will more often result in people relying on the radar and then getting popped because they stopped moving to look at it.

KarmaGhost

08-12-2006, 12:59 PM

I was going to quote everyone dissing the radar update because they never use it, but there were too many. I think the whole point of updating the radar is so that you start using it again. If it's there and you don't use it, fine, maybe now you will.

Personally, I use it a lot. When using sound (and I mean truly using sound, no MP3s in the background), you can tell whether those footsteps are friend or foe by taking a peek at the radar blips.

kid cabelgo

08-12-2006, 01:01 PM

As someone who plays CS:S on a regular basis, FUCK YOU..
Any game gets old and stale..
As for CS:S,go check Xfire and see what game is getting the #2 playtime..
Right under a game you pay a fee for..
If you goto shitty servers, with no admins who don't watch their servers yes you will find those ignorant asshats who love to try and ruin people fun..

I've always wondered why do Halo and CS get teh asshats more then anything..

I play on well admin'd servers or my clans pub :)
I don't have a problem with the "normal" CS:S players as I just ban most of them :)
on Topic:
As for changing the radar, who gives a shit..
ooo I can see someone on my radar if my teammate holds their cursor on them for a short ammount of time
Why wouldn't my teammate just KILL said enemy ??
Only thing radar is useful for is when a teammate, on a pub, that dies you can GUESS where they were..
Big deal..

As for adding HDR to de_train, oooo more crap I can turn off in train..
As for fixing the map, YEAH no more invisowalls blocking my shots :)
Other then that, I've waited how many months for an update that doesn't suck..

Guess I'll keep waiting, so many other things in this game need to get fixed and they add HDR.. :confused:

So many things to mock.....must....control....smarmy....comments!

gah! I can't take it! I'll just leave you with this thought:

Generally, a person that spells their ridiculous moniker, be it some sort of Shadowy Lone Wolf or 420 Sniping Agent of the Nethers guy, using characters such as:

Å®ÇTÌ¢ VåmÞ‡®Ë

tends to equal:

Annoying CS Guy Who Yells At His Teammates With a Loud Microphone

On a side note, anybody up for some CS? My friends name is РűςςџΣǻ†εѓ42Ó

Majster Wichajster

08-12-2006, 01:09 PM

^ So true.

I guess that bean19 forgot that many people don't play in clans. Some don't pay attention to the radar when it matters and they can't guess where the enemy is. You know - blip, blip, no blip (shit, enemy).

Some don't even take the time to actually tell others where the fuckers are. This wil sort of remedy that.

bean19

08-12-2006, 01:27 PM

Okay, who wants some schooling?

I'll fuck you all up in CS:S right now.

51|RandoM

08-12-2006, 03:11 PM

Uh-oh.

Read the entire update (http://www.steampowered.com/Steam/Marketing/message/718/), and view a screen of the HDR'ed de_train.

CS might be tired and stale, but it's important to remember that its players are, too. A lot of people are about to start getting very angry...

I don't feel stale, nor does CS:Source.

I guess chess, checkers, and bridge are stale too.

You really want to see stale, go pay for some XBLA emulation of ancient games.

51|RandoM

08-12-2006, 03:14 PM

Fuck those people. CS:S needs to stop following the same tired gameplay or else it will always lurk in the shadows of the innovative team based FPS games.

I don't know how you equate the FPS game with the most players as 'lurk in the shadows'.

CS is a team based FPS game, fyi.

Lastly, CS stays while all of those other games peak, then fall off.

51|RandoM

08-12-2006, 03:20 PM

How about they just leave regular CS alone and make CS2?

Don't patch your client or your server, voila, your regular CS is left alone.

51|RandoM

08-12-2006, 03:25 PM

On the radar issue, I use it quite a bit.

Trying to flush out the last two guys? I can see where the rest of my team is on radar, so I pick a spot they're not.

People dying, but not calling for help, just watch for where the blips disappear.

Bomb plant? Don't rush to the same site as everybody else until you hear that it is indeed to correct one.

About to flashbang a room? Check your radar before you accidentally flashbang a teammate.

Hear footsteps coming, but can't see the target yet? Use the radar to see if it is a friendly.

Fyd

08-13-2006, 12:49 AM

Fyd

08-13-2006, 12:54 AM

I don't know how you equate the FPS game with the most players as 'lurk in the shadows'.

CS is a team based FPS game, fyi.

Lastly, CS stays while all of those other games peak, then fall off.

team based???? hhahaahah there is still people who think that in css plays a "team", ok yes, there is a team, but in regular servers, not match and no clan playing guys, no one plays like a team, and rush the enemy its not playing like team, for example, all Rainbow six games are team based but not css, css its a 30s match if any side rush well, or 2m match if there is someone who loves camp, and ct dont want to rescue hostages coz they prefer to find and kill that camper.

Å®ÇTÌ¢ VåmÞ‡®Ë

08-13-2006, 01:02 AM

So many things to mock.....must....control....smarmy....comments!

gah! I can't take it! I'll just leave you with this thought:

Generally, a person that spells their ridiculous moniker, be it some sort of Shadowy Lone Wolf or 420 Sniping Agent of the Nethers guy, using characters such as:

Å®ÇTÌ¢ VåmÞ‡®Ë

tends to equal:

Annoying CS Guy Who Yells At His Teammates With a Loud Microphone

On a side note, anybody up for some CS? My friends name is РűςςџΣǻ†εѓ42Ó

LOL
No actually I like people who complete objectives and play the game it was meant to be played, as in not playing CS:S like it's Q3..
About the only time I yell @ anyone is for:
TeamFlashing( is it really that hard to use them correctly?)
Or Tk/TD= watching your fire..mmmmm
(and I expect to get yelled @ when I do it to someone as well :) )
Anytime you wanna game lemme know, hell hop on my clans pub..

ServerIP: 63.209.35.192:27015
or look me up on Xfire: arcticvampire
I'm usually the guy that gets called a cheater because I listen for people..
As for bashing my name, ROFL, the examples you mentioned I am neither :)

@ fyd:
you need to find better servers, anyone can try to be Rambo( and there are tons of people that try),I'd much rather win then be 65-10 :)

MasterEvilAce

08-13-2006, 05:39 AM

I agree with 51|Random. The radar is entirely useful already.. people just don't seem to use it.

There IS strategy in CSS.. if you don't think there is, you're playing on a server with retarded.. in which case, it's usually "fire first" and you win.

There is also teamwork.. when playing with people who didn't just buy the game.

I play on servers taht have a community built up. Those are the servers with the team work and everything. If you call for backup, or call that you spot an enemy, teammates WILL join you.

If you tell everyone to "rush short A".. your team will join you, and you WILL come out victorious, usually

bean19

08-13-2006, 05:51 AM

Well i played since first beta....but i think css is dead, people plays all over and all over again the same boring and camping maps, dust, dust2, office, css is a team deathmatch, there is no strategy, you are skilled or not and anything else, the new radar system is not going to change nothing in css, the same gameplay

1. Playing classic maps does not make the game dead.

2. There are new maps ALL the time and people do play them. You just have to go to the right server.

3. If you played in clan play, you would see more team strategy. Name a pub FPS game where people use strategy as a team? Also, I've outlined really good personal strategy previously in this thread.

4. You are an idiot.

51|RandoM

08-13-2006, 09:03 AM

There is as much teamplay in CS as you go to the effort of creating. Most servers I play on I end up creating and running a squad of 3 or 4 players who back each other up, communicate via voice, and make our way through the map taking down every Rambo we meet.

"Experience may change during online play"

...especially if you make an effort to change it yourself.

Guy Mariano

08-13-2006, 09:44 AM

Okay, who wants some schooling?

I'll fuck you all up in CS:S right now.

Negative. By the way. How do you never use radar? I don't use it alot but there are obvious time that it is useful. It definetly helps you know if what you hearing is an enemy or your teamate.

bean19

08-13-2006, 12:35 PM

Guy - I shoot everything that moves in pub play with FF off. In clan play, I know where my teamates are. I do use the radar in public play - RARELY - when someone has dropped the bomb.

Shifteh

08-13-2006, 01:46 PM

I really love how it's cool to make fun of Counter-Strike online. Clearly you're all far above those who play it, with your elitist games and "I hate popular things!" attitudes. Bravo!

Personally, I could never get into Counter-Strike Source. It was like regular counter-strike, only with twice the lag, a tonne of un-needed changes, terrible gameplay ideas, and awful, awful additions (cans and barrels). There are deffinately two camps in CS. This will make that divide even wider.

bean19

08-13-2006, 03:25 PM

Shifteh - If you are getting lag on CS:S then you are running it at too high a resolution for your PC. The netcode is better than the original for most users (and not really that different in any case). What were the unnecessary changes and terrible gameplay ideas? Cans and barrels don't really do anything to gameplay one way or the other. However, FILE CABINETS YOU CAN SHOOT OVER in cs_office - those are rad.

There aren't two camps in CS. Pretty much everyone loves CS:S.

Varsity

08-14-2006, 07:09 AM

Somebody complaining about Source netcode? Don't worry, the link is here:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2325617804374182980

Å®ÇTÌ¢ VåmÞ‡®Ë

08-14-2006, 10:38 AM

Somebody complaining about Source netcode? Don't worry, the link is here:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2325617804374182980
THANK YOU

As for my net settings,it's just a test.. :|

Join your favorite server..

cl_cmdrate ( match this to your FPS)
cl_updaterate 100
rate 30000
net_graph 3

Then watch your choke & loss..
If you get choke & loss, try lowering your cmdrate/rate in small ammounts:)
This worked for me @ least