EA Advises Sony to Address PSP Failings

[fitbabits]

Next Generation (http://www.next-gen.biz) is reporting that David Gardner, EA's head of development, has fired a broadside at Sony for their PSP failings.

You can read the article here (http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3617&Itemid=2).

The firm's VP and COO of worldwide studios told UK trade paper MCV, "I don't think Sony can afford to sit back. They still have things they can do with the price and performance of the machine, things that they need to address."

EA says it has shifted its handheld priorities since DS began pulling away from PSP. "There's no doubt that EA has historically bet more on PSP," said Garner. "I think we were excited by the technology, but the consumers have proven that actually what they want is fun.
Yowza!

[fitbabits]

"I think we were excited by the technology, but the consumers have proven that actually what they want is fun."
Would it be pre-emptive to draw the same conclusion about Xbox 360 versus PS3? :)

[Rirath]

I still like my PSP, I still use my PSP for on-the-go anime and a couple of games... but my DS does get a whole lot more usage. Mega Man Powered Up and Hot Shots Golf is about the only thing left for me these days. Tempting to trade it in when Wii comes out, but I'll probably hang on to it. Homebrew isn't what it was, but it's still fun.

Anyone know what the going rate is at Gamestop?

[sanatos]

They thought people didn't want fun why again?

[Kelegacy]

Would it be pre-emptive to draw the same conclusion about Xbox 360 versus PS3? :)
That conclusion is invalid until the machine is actually out. It's like me hating my son for being a goddamn asshole teenager, despite him not even being born yet.

[destoo]

That conclusion is invalid until the machine is actually out. It's like me hating my son for being a goddamn asshole teenager, despite him not even being born yet.

Well, at least you know he'll be getting good genes, right? :rolleyes:

[Rirath]

Ya know, one of the reasons I think the DS has more favor with me than the PSP doesn't have to do with any sort of 'fun', it's the games themselves being different than what I can already get on my consoles. My favorite PSP games are largely the type you don't see on the PS2, the oldschool types. While I love Hotshots Golf, Ridge Racer, Need for Speed, Burnout Revenge... direct ports kinda killed the PSP. Every game needed to be 3d, rather than unique. It really did focus on being a portable Playstation.

I could see the DS dying the same death if every game would have kept to that same "stylus tech demo" trend it followed for the first 6 months or so. Thankfully, it didn't. We quickly got actual handheld games while the PSP never quite broke free. It keeps trying to be a console rather than a portable. The most exciting game coming up for me is Ultimate Ghosts 'n Goblins.

[jeffbax]

They thought people didn't want fun why again?
Cause EA has no imagination to make the games for DS :eek:

[Vandenh]

>most exciting game coming up for me is Ultimate Ghosts 'n Goblins.

That will be awesome ;)

The PSP has failed because Sony sadly has marketted it as a lifestyle device and a media player instead of going all out on the games front. Technically it is a stunning machine (except for the UMD and Memory stick options) so developers should be able to make amazing games. Sadly most of them have opted for a quick port since they know the PSP owner is almost certainly a PS2 fan as well and wants his old games on PS2. The DS crowd is probably more the gamers who want new games and/or other types of games. I personally love my DS because I can fold it, no loading and nice long battery life. :)

The problem for Sony is also that the DS leaves an amazing impression on a lot of people. The more DS machines there are in the world the more people will be impressed ("Wow.. what is that you are playing?")... while the PSP is usually "oh. It is a portable PS2".

IMHO the future of PSP died last year... nothing can really help it pull closer to the DS anymore. The tech also ages badly... other devices are/will become much better at the media functions. Only the screen is totally awesome (but for how long).

[Kelegacy]

The PSP has some promising things on it now and in the future that intrigue me. However, the price is the big thing keeping me from ever owning one. When it gets down to the DS's price range, I'll get one.

[Paranoia]

Ya know, one of the reasons I think the DS has more favor with me than the PSP doesn't have to do with any sort of 'fun', it's the games themselves being different than what I can already get on my consoles.

Now that is ridiculous.

If you put variety of games on a DS but lack the FUN then what is the point of playing it?

[Atepsflame]

I've never had a signiture before but that little statement about fun over technology was just too good to pass up.

[Borys]

Would it be pre-emptive to draw the same conclusion about Xbox 360 versus PS3? :)

Why would you?

The only conclusion I can draw is that you can't really overcome a monopoly even with a stronger and superior product like Sony failed with the PSP.

MS failed with Xbox vs PS2 and they probably will fail with Xbox 360 especially since it is:

a) lagging behind Xbox 1 sales in the same timeframe by about 300K units
b) missing the whole "We will sell 10M units before PS3 launches!" idiocy
c) missing even half of that idiocy
d) still non-existant in Japan
e) and hardly noticeable in Europe

Oh well, third time is the charm, right Xbox 7200 ?

[Heretic Machine]

I have to wonder if this guy is going to have a job by the end of the business day...

[soco]

i still think at least a small part of the DS success has come from it being the 'in' device to have, and not because of it's games. i have both, and love them both, although i admit my PSP gets a little more play, especially with Loco Roco and my emulators :D

[Kamalot]

That conclusion is invalid until the machine is actually out. It's like me hating my son for being a goddamn asshole teenager, despite him not even being born yet.
There is a lot of evidence to support the notion that the PS3 is a lot like the PSP. The parent company has a history, the emphasis is less on games and more on movies. With your unborn child, there is nothing with which you can predict qualities, aside from the parents. I suppose if the parents are assholes, you stand a higher chance of producing an asshole teenager.

With the PS3, it has been conceived as an idea, brought to life as dev kits and is in the hands of developers the world over, some of whom are giving up on it.

Your analogy is way off, despite what you want to think.

[soco]

MS failed with Xbox vs PS2 and they probably will fail with Xbox 360 especially since it is:

<snip>


:confused: huh, what? you should check up on some of those as you got some wrong. e isn't even a fact.

[Goronmon]

The only conclusion I can draw is that you can't really overcome a monopoly even with a stronger and superior movie player like Sony failed with the PSP. Fixed ;)

asjkldjkasg

[Savok]

It's like jocks beating up other jocks, you can't help but smile.

[Kelegacy]

There is a lot of evidence to support the notion that the PS3 is a lot like the PSP. The parent company has a history, the emphasis is less on games and more on movies. With your unborn child, there is nothing with which you can predict qualities, aside from the parents. I suppose if the parents are assholes, you stand a higher chance of producing an asshole teenager.

With the PS3, it has been conceived as an idea, brought to life as dev kits and is in the hands of developers the world over, some of whom are giving up on it.

Your analogy is way off, despite what you want to think.

Dude. If we want to go by history the PS3 will be the best selling console ever. Don't kid yourself.

The games that have been cancelled haven't been the titles that will make or break the console. It is always upsetting when a game has to be cancelled, but games are cancelled on every platform. This is nothing new, but it's just getting a lot of press lately. If you want to judge the PS3 before the system has even taken a breath, you'd be foolish. We've seen many people on this site eat crow before. It's time you ate yours. (though you'd deny you ordered any when the waiter brought it to you)

Oh no, Frame City Killer was cancelled! The 360 is doomed.

[KidCactus]

I think we were excited by the technology, but the consumers have proven that actually what they want is fun.
I just don't understand why the PSP hinders EA from making FUN games on the PSP. Other developers do.

[Doctor Setebos]

Would it be pre-emptive to draw the same conclusion about Xbox 360 versus PS3? :)I was thinking PS3 versus Wii, myself, but that's jus the fanboy in my talking. :D

[Hellstorm]

Would it be pre-emptive to draw the same conclusion about Wii versus everyone else? :)
Fixed for future accuracy.

[Barrapa]

PSP is dying off because Sony intentionally crippled most of its features. It is a great device, but Sony's support for it has been criminal.

[51|RandoM]

Would it be pre-emptive to draw the same conclusion about Xbox 360 versus PS3? :)

Not for a red name on this site, no. :)


I think you might make a more valid comparison with the Wii vs. the 360, though.

I don't know what EA is really asking for here. The PSP is out, make some damn games for it already, lol.

[The Letter 3]

:confused: huh, what? you should check up on some of those as you got some wrong. e isn't even a fact.
Ah yes, to be young and confused on Evil Avatar...

Here's the deal. There's a reason why Borys calls himself "Cap'n of Xbox Death Squad." Don't argue, don't reason, and sure as hell don't look at him with a funny squint. Just let him fight "the man" and sleep peacefully at night, knowing that he'll never let MS steal your soul.

[Borys]

:confused: huh, what? you should check up on some of those as you got some wrong. e isn't even a fact.

I *think* it is 1M shipped in 9 months. That's way, way below US shipped numbers. Prove me wrong please.

[bapenguin]

a) lagging behind Xbox 1 sales in the same timeframe by about 300K units
b) missing the whole "We will sell 10M units before PS3 launches!" idiocy
c) missing even half of that idiocy
d) still non-existant in Japan
e) and hardly noticeable in Europe

a) yes. and it should be at this time.
b) It could...though I think it's going to just miss it. This holiday season will prove interesting that's for sure.
c) No. Actually it's over the 5 million mark by now. At least it was back in June. (http://gamerscoreblog.com/team/archive/2006/07/20/536283.aspx)
d) Yes.
e) No. 1.3 million in Europe as of June is pretty good.

[Reebdoog]

Perhaps if EA made decent PSP games they would make money.

[The Letter 3]

I don't know what EA is really asking for here. The PSP is out, make some damn games for it already, lol.
EA is deftly saying, "We can't make a game worth shit for the PSP so it must be Sony's fault." Give me a fucking break. The PSP is just like the Gameboy and all of its incarnations - a portable game console. If I remember right, the Gameboy had a few fun games, didn't it?

[Kamalot]

Dude. If we want to go by history the PS3 will be the best selling console ever. Don't kid yourself.

If we also use history as an indicator, Bluray will fail compared to HD-DVD.

Also, if we use history as an indicator, you'll see that any company on top of the gaming pile has come down. Sega fell. Nintendo fell. Atari fell. Sony will too, especially if they continue on their self-destructive behavior streak.

Take a look at the PSP, a technological marvel that is hobbled by optical media and a corporation more interested in selling you movies all over again than selling you games.

You can believe what you want, but comparing the PS3 to an unborn child is wrong.

[Hellstorm]

a) yes. and it should be at this time.
b) It could...though I think it's going to just miss it. This holiday season will prove interesting that's for sure.
c) No. Actually it's over the 5 million mark by now. At least it was back in June. (http://gamerscoreblog.com/team/archive/2006/07/20/536283.aspx)
d) Yes.
e) No. 1.3 million in Europe as of June is pretty good.

a) A system should be lagging behind the previous generation in comparable time frame? This has never happened in the industry before, AFAIK. So that is a good thing... riiiiight.
b) Not going to happen, step out of Moore's "lucid dream" for once. PD0 was supposed to be the next Halo, MS said so.
c) SHIPPED not sold. Nintendo is the only company that actually reports sold units.
e) Link?

[The Letter 3]

You can believe what you want, but comparing the PS3 to an unborn child is wrong.
This can only spiral downward into an argument over abortion.
Borg abortion!

You heard it here first.

[Kamalot]

There's a reason why Borys calls himself "Cap'n of Xbox Death Squad."
Ahh! I always thought the Xbox Death Squad was a bunch of Xbox-ridin' cowboys that would swing through town leaving destruction in their wake and that Borys was their leader, king of all Xbox fans! ;)

[Salesmunn]

Over all else, the DS's main advantage is price. Price of games and of the system.

[Hellstorm]

To defend EA, the game company, outside of maybe 2-4 games have actually made money on the PSP. The cost of development versus actual money made off sales is really low. NPD July rankings based on dollars generated has a total of ZERO PSP games in the top 25. Even the Xbox and GC managed 1 game, the DS 4+.

At this point, you can't make money off the PSP. Sony just doesn't understand the portable market.

[Kelegacy]

If we also use history as an indicator, Bluray will fail compared to HD-DVD.

Also, if we use history as an indicator, you'll see that any company on top of the gaming pile has come down. Sega fell. Nintendo fell. Atari fell. Sony will too, especially if they continue on their self-destructive behavior streak.

Take a look at the PSP, a technological marvel that is hobbled by optical media and a corporation more interested in selling you movies all over again than selling you games.


I don't care if Blu-Ray fails. I am not buying a PS3 to play movies. I didn't buy a 360 to watch DVDs. They are nice additions, but I can do without.

Your history lesson about lightning not striking thrice is accurate. It could happen, but to compare the 360 to the PS3, predicting a flimsy sort of doom before the machine is on shelves (and is still about 3 months away) is silly.

[Borys]

Ahh! I always thought the Xbox Death Squad was a bunch of Xbox-ridin' cowboys that would swing through town leaving destruction in their wake and that Borys was their leader, king of all Xbox fans! ;)

Wow, that's so wrong.

[bapenguin]

a) A system should be lagging behind the previous generation in comparable time frame? This has never happened in the industry before, AFAIK. So that is a good thing... riiiiight.
b) Not going to happen, step out of Moore's "lucid dream" for once. PD0 was supposed to be the next Halo, MS said so.
c) SHIPPED not sold. Nintendo is the only company that actually reports sold units.
e) Link?

a) has it? Do you have proof of that? I'm fairly certain the first 6 months of the PS2s life the PS1 outsold it (this was in part due to shortages).
Edit: to add to this point: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation)The PSone (also PSOne, PS one, or PS1), launched in 2000, is Sony's smaller (and redesigned) version of its PlayStation video game console. The PSone is about one-third smaller than the original PlayStation (38mm × 193 mm × 144 mm versus 45 mm × 260 mm × 185 mm). It was released in September 2000, and went on to outsell all other consoles—including Sony's own brand-new PlayStation 2—throughout the remainder of the year.
b) Why not? You don't think they'll sell 3 or 4 million units this holiday? 50% of all sales occurs during this time. This has nothing to do with PD0.
c) This argument has been played to DEATH.
e) All that info came from the financial report released by MS, linked above.

[fitbabits]

Not for a red name on this site, no. :)


I think you might make a more valid comparison with the Wii vs. the 360, though.

I don't know what EA is really asking for here. The PSP is out, make some damn games for it already, lol.
Awesome! My little missive had the desired effect. :D

[Kamalot]

I don't care if Blu-Ray fails. I am not buying a PS3 to play movies. I didn't buy a 360 to watch DVDs. They are nice additions, but I can do without.
Sony's BIG selling point for PS3 is that it is an inexpensive Bluray player. They aren't in it for the game any more, they are in it for the movies. They are using PS3 as a way to get Bluray players into people's homes, a lot like how they used the PlayStation name in order to sell people an iPod killer, the PSP (http://www.1up.com/do/feature?cId=3142637).

Sony WON'T come in 1st place with the PS3 for a good number of reasons. The primary reason they won't end up in 1st is because they admitted that 1st place isn't what they are interested in (http://www.engadget.com/2006/06/03/sony-not-so-concerned-with-market-share-ah-that-explains-it/).

Go ahead and save this thread so you can come back in 2009 and remember that I called it.

My original point still stands: Yes, you can compare the PSP's success (or lack thereof) to the upcoming PS3. They both show a similar approach and philosophy to the market from their parent company, Sony.

Fitbabits is right.

[Kamalot]

Wow, that's so wrong.
But funny, no?

[Hellstorm]

a) has it? Do you have proof of that? I'm fairly certain the first 6 months of the PS2s life the PS1 outsold it (this was in part due to shortages).
Edit: to add to this point: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation)
b) Why not? You don't think they'll sell 3 or 4 million units this holiday? 50% of all sales occurs during this time. This has nothing to do with PD0.
c) This argument has been played to DEATH.
e) All that info came from the financial report released by MS, linked above.

a)XBox - 2.55 million (XBox was at 3.1 million through 12 months)
X360 - 2.21 million

[Kelegacy]

a) has it? Do you have proof of that? I'm fairly certain the first 6 months of the PS2s life the PS1 outsold it (this was in part due to shortages).
Edit: to add to this point: (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation)
b) Why not? You don't think they'll sell 3 or 4 million units this holiday? 50% of all sales occurs during this time. This has nothing to do with PD0.
c) This argument has been played to DEATH.
e) All that info came from the financial report released by MS, linked above.
Bap, I don't think he means the 360 vs the Xbox currently. I thought he meant the 360 is selling worse than the Xbox did when it first came out. Of course, there is no Halo to help sales.

If that is not what he was talking about, then nevermind me.

[jacktion]

There are a lot of parallels between the upcoming Wii, PS3 battle and the ongoing DS, PSP battle. It is not unreasonable to compare them and wonder if the similarities will continue in terms of sales. I guess we'll know in about two years.

Someone asked what it was about the PSP that stopped EA from adding "fun" to the games like it did for the DS. I guess the answer would be that it is a matter of design. The central focus of the PSP is a totally awesome gigantic screen and a really kickass processor. Sony basically said that "if we just cram enough power behind a big enough screen then we can't lose!" They didn't really think much beyond that. They just thought that he with the most power wins, even though this has been disproven time and time again, most recently with Sony's own PS2.
The central focus of the DS is the interface. It really rotates around its multiple ways of letting the consumer control things. Nintendo didn't spend a lot of energy on the processor/guts. The screens are small and pretty ordinary, besides the touchscreen. But I guess the key point of the DS is the software. It has some crazy kickbutt games. They are completely new and original and it has all types.
Now I don't know if the interface has precipitated the great software, or if Nintendo has just pushed for these games but the end result is lots of games that people want to play.

[Kamalot]

There are a lot of parallels between the upcoming Wii, PS3 battle and the ongoing DS, PSP battle. It is not unreasonable to compare them and wonder if the similarities will continue in terms of sales. I guess we'll know in about two years.

Someone asked what it was about the PSP that stopped EA from adding "fun" to the games like it did for the DS. I guess the answer would be that it is a matter of design. The central focus of the PSP is a totally awesome gigantic screen and a really kickass processor. Sony basically said that "if we just cram enough power behind a big enough screen then we can't lose!" They didn't really think much beyond that. They just thought that he with the most power wins, even though this has been disproven time and time again, most recently with Sony's own PS2.
The central focus of the DS is the interface. It really rotates around its multiple ways of letting the consumer control things. Nintendo didn't spend a lot of energy on the processor/guts. The screens are small and pretty ordinary, besides the touchscreen. But I guess the key point of the DS is the software. It has some crazy kickbutt games. They are completely new and original and it has all types.
Now I don't know if the interface has precipitated the great software, or if Nintendo has just pushed for these games but the end result is lots of games that people want to play.You make a lot of good points. One other I'd like to add is that, since the DS is much less powerful, it costs a lot less to make games for it. When games cost less to make, developers can take more risks. A low budget game does not need to sell as many copies to turn a profit. A low budget game that sells well, makes a lot more profit.

The PSP is much more expensive to develop for. PSP games rival that of PS2 games but are build on hardware that is different enough that developers can’t simply use PS2 tools. Developers and publishers are much less likely to take a risk on PSP games, hence a platform full of ports and console hand-me-downs.

This same philosophy extends directly onto the Wii and PS3. Wii is much less expensive to develop for, providing developers and publishers with the freedom to take risks. PS3 is more expensive to develop for than ever; quite possibly the most expensive platform ever for developers. What developer or publisher is going to spend 20 million dollars on an unknown title with little-to-no guarantee on a return?

[Mason]

I read this a lot more as EA firing a warning shot in regards to the PS3. There isn't a heck of a lot that Sony can do to fix the PSP, other than remove all barriers to homebrew, drop the price, and get some more quality games out. A lot of developers are risking a lot of money on the assumption that the PS3 will be another PS2, though, and Sony's various setbacks and PR listlessness haven't made that seem like a particularly safe assumption.

3rd-party developers have been the driving force behind each PS platform, and yet given the media-centric designs of the PSP and PS3 it would be fair to note that Sony might have taken that support for granted, to some extent. My money says that Sony's momentum will still carry them through all of this, but there will probably be a reputation hit with American and European developers.

[bapenguin]

Bap, I don't think he means the 360 vs the Xbox currently. I thought he meant the 360 is selling worse than the Xbox did when it first came out. Of course, there is no Halo to help sales.

If that is not what he was talking about, then nevermind me.

Yeah I got that after is second post. Except he proved himself wrong with his second post on that topic. 3 million in 12 months for the XBox and 5 million in 9 months for the 360.

[Reanimated]

High price and shitty games causes low unit sales...

Looks like PS3 is equally fucked.

[soco]

the DS sold worse than the GBA for some limited time in their respective sales histories, but that's because the DS wasn't shipped in quantities as high as the GBA, much like the 360. even then, the GBA was still outselling by significant amounts in some months after the DS was released. surprise! it means nothing!

had the DS and the 360 shipped in higher quantities those wouldn't even be issues -- especially the 360 which came in right before christmas and had a much higher demand than the supply. it could've possibly have sold 1 million consoles in the US alone in just that month.

what's more important regarding the sales, is similar to the PS2 launch, many people didn't buy the consoles until some of the games they wanted got released. you can expect bumps, like that of Oblivion in the US and DOA4&N3 in Japan. the same happened with the DS when games like Nintendogs got released.

problem is finding running totals for all of these older consoles on the internet is incredibly difficult, but if you feel like digging you can find a few articles here and there that mention specific time frames.

[Hellstorm]

Yeah I got that after is second post. Except he proved himself wrong with his second post on that topic. 3 million in 12 months for the XBox and 5 million in 9 months for the 360.

Uh, no I didn't.

[Dag-Sabot]

Ahh! I always thought the Xbox Death Squad was a bunch of Xbox-ridin' cowboys that would swing through town leaving destruction in their wake and that Borys was their leader, king of all Xbox fans! ;)
-not to mention the king of the half-baked [WWII] allegory.

[Metal Jesus]

I would love to see Sony release a next version or redesign of the PSP. There is so many little things that could easily be improved to make it great.

[fitbabits]

I would love to see Sony release a next version or redesign of the PSP. There is so many little things that could easily be improved to make it great.
I fear it's too late for even that, especially with Sony being stretched to the limit financially by the PS3.

[Jack B]

Uh, no I didn't.

Uh, explain yourself then.

[51|RandoM]

High price and shitty games causes low unit sales...

Looks like PS3 is equally fucked.

Tell us about your experiences playing shitty PS3 games.

[51|RandoM]

Over all else, the DS's main advantage is price. Price of games and of the system.

Maybe in general, but I don't think specifically for your typical person here. I favored the DS over the PSP because it had the games I wanted to play, and looked like it would continue to have more of the games I wanted to play than PSP did. You could price the PSP at $15 and the DS at $350 and I'd still have the DS instead of the PSP.

I've always thought the PSP was a nifty piece of hardware, but without a good library it would just be a dusty paperweight for me.

[UnderHero5]

Wait... what "fun" games have EA made/published on the DS?
All I can think of is crappy ports of their decent PSP games.

EA will go where the numbers are. Simple as that. They don't care about which system is more "fun"... they care about which one has sold more and has more potential buyers.

Also, I think it's a bit pointless to speculate who will win in the upcoming console wars. Heck, before both were out I definitely thought the PSP would give the DS a run for it's money. How wrong I was. Speculation is pointless in the gaming industry. Things change way too fast.

[Kelegacy]

Tell us about your experiences playing shitty PS3 games.
Ohh snap!!

[EternalGamer]

I read this a lot more as EA firing a warning shot in regards to the PS3. There isn't a heck of a lot that Sony can do to fix the PSP, other than remove all barriers to homebrew, drop the price, and get some more quality games out. A lot of developers are risking a lot of money on the assumption that the PS3 will be another PS2, though, and Sony's various setbacks and PR listlessness haven't made that seem like a particularly safe assumption.

3rd-party developers have been the driving force behind each PS platform, and yet given the media-centric designs of the PSP and PS3 it would be fair to note that Sony might have taken that support for granted, to some extent. My money says that Sony's momentum will still carry them through all of this, but there will probably be a reputation hit with American and European developers.


This is exactly what my first thought was. Especially with Ubisoft, EA's largest rival, focusing so heavily on the Wii. EA is letting Sony know that they aren't afraid to jump ship and Sony they better get their act together.

[Salesmunn]

Maybe in general, but I don't think specifically for your typical person here. I favored the DS over the PSP because it had the games I wanted to play, and looked like it would continue to have more of the games I wanted to play than PSP did. You could price the PSP at $15 and the DS at $350 and I'd still have the DS instead of the PSP.

I've always thought the PSP was a nifty piece of hardware, but without a good library it would just be a dusty paperweight for me.

$150 nowadays is throw away money when you're taking gaming into consideration. You can buy a DS and never play it without any guilt, easy to take that chance.

We're also considering all the new DS Lite sales as new DS owners, where most I'm sure traded in their Phat DS for the Lite. No way to track that though.

I have both and love them both. Tekken DR is awesome and ACWW is one of the greatest games ever made. Only wish the online play was more stable and the chat didn't suck.

[Kamalot]

Tekken DR is awesome.
I was reading EGM where they review Tekken for the PSP, claiming you can get a whole 3 hours of battery with the game.

[AntB]

I was reading EGM where they review Tekken for the PSP, claiming you can get a whole 3 hours of battery with the game.

I don't know, my psp can go without charge for 2 days with about 4 hours of game play and an unspecified amount of music play.

[Camalot]

I was reading EGM where they review Tekken for the PSP, claiming you can get a whole 3 hours of battery with the game.

People always complain about the PSP battery life but I am always having recharge my DS. I just recently got Loco Roco and have been playing that on the PSP, battery life seems ok. I also got Brain Age recently, so I have been playing that alot but I am always having to recharge the battery on the ds. I think I have to charge it every 4 or 5 hours.

At least with the PSP you can play it while its charging. Sure you can play the DS while its charging but its annoying because the spot where you plug in the adapter (Old DS) is in the way for playing brain age.

[EternalGamer]

I don't know, my psp can go without charge for 2 days with about 4 hours of game play and an unspecified amount of music play.


See I couldn't deal with that. I charge my DS up, and it's good for a week or so at least to flip on whenever I want it. The other problem is the PSP's fragility. The clamshell design makes the DS perfect for travel. I think it really was a brilliant move of Nintendo to think "Hey, we got this clam shell thing, why not use that extra real estate to toss another screen on it." The interface on the DS overall is just brilliant.

All those games like Nintendogs, Electroplankton, the BrainGames and Sudoku make it accessible to anyone. They literally just have to point to and touch the thing they want to do, or write or draw it. It's instantly intuitive to anyone. My mom has not let go of my DS since I came back on this visit. She's 56 years old and hasn't played a game since Pac-man on the 2600. That's what Nintendo's design allows. Everybody knows how to use a stylus. She would never touch a PSP.

[EternalGamer]

People always complain about the PSP battery life but I am always having recharge my DS. I just recently got Loco Roco and have been playing that on the PSP, battery life seems ok. I also got Brain Age recently, so I have been playing that alot but I am always having to recharge the battery on the ds. I think I have to charge it every 4 or 5 hours.



You might want to time the difference in the battery life. Maybe you have an defective DS battery? Mine always got at least 10+ hours for anything. The Lite gets ove twice that.

[Eran Hawke]

[qoute]I think we were excited by the technology, but the consumers have proven that actually what they want is fun.[/quote]Oh Damn. Backhand to Sony.

There isn't any good way to spin this. Good thing I opened my eyes and left my Sony fanboy nature behind.

PSP has beed a joke. I'm sorry I got mine.

[Rirath]

You could price the PSP at $15 and the DS at $350 and I'd still have the DS instead of the PSP.

Oh, come on... :rolleyes:

[UnderHero5]

You might want to time the difference in the battery life. Maybe you have an defective DS battery? Mine always got at least 10+ hours for anything. The Lite gets ove twice that.
Twice that?
Not to argue, but you might want to time that.
Unless you're using the absolute lowest brightness setting and have the volume turned all the way down, playing pictochat, there's no way you're geting 20 hours from your DS Lite battery.

I own a DS and a DS Lite and they get very similar battery life when your Lites brightness is near the highest (I have mine just below brightest) and volume more than half way up.
About 8 - 10 hours.
Still a lot more than the PSP, but saying is gets 20 hours is simply a lie.

My friends and I usually get together every weekend and marathon DS Lite games for 6+ hours. At least one of us has to recharge durring that time unless we've just come off a full charge.

Of course, my PSP only gets maybe 4-5 hours average.

[EternalGamer]

Twice that?
Not to argue, but you might want to time that.
Unless you're using the absolute lowest brightness setting and have the volume turned all the way down, playing pictochat, there's no way you're geting 20 hours from your DS Lite battery.

I own a DS and a DS Lite and they get very similar battery life when your Lites brightness is near the highest (I have mine just below brightest) and volume more than half way up.
About 8 - 10 hours.
Still a lot more than the PSP, but saying is gets 20 hours is simply a lie.


Yes, I use the 2nd from the lowest setting most of the time. It's plenty bright enough and way brighter than the original DS, still. Even the lowest setting is brighter than the original, and according to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ds_lite) it gets up to 19 on that setting. The only time I find it anywhere near necessary to turn up the brightness is when I am outside in the daylight. Inside the house, especially in darker settings, the brighter settings absolutely kill my eyes.

[ECM]

Would it be pre-emptive to draw the same conclusion about Xbox 360 versus PS3? :)

Unless the 360 starts getting truckloads more Japanese support, all signs point to 'no.'

[jacktion]

I think it's a bit pointless to speculate who will win in the upcoming console wars. Heck, before both were out I definitely thought the PSP would give the DS a run for it's money. How wrong I was. Speculation is pointless in the gaming industry. Things change way too fast.


I don't think your story so much illustrates a universal lack of utility regarding speculation and hypotheses as it does a specific lack of salient propriety involving said individual's predictive acumen. Sorry dude.

[Kamalot]

Unless the 360 starts getting truckloads more Japanese support, all signs point to 'no.'
What does the 360's Japanese support have to do with comparing the PSP/DS to the PS3/Wii?

:rolleyes:

[cppcrusader]

i still think at least a small part of the DS success has come from it being the 'in' device to have, and not because of it's games. i have both, and love them both, although i admit my PSP gets a little more play, especially with Loco Roco and my emulators :D

Except that the DS became the 'in' device because of its games. The PSP was marketed as and expected by many to be the 'in' device. It was for a short time after its release, but many have discovered that its library and capabilities don't back that up well enough.

[Kamalot]

I don't think your story so much illustrates a universal lack of utility regarding speculation and hypotheses as it does a specific lack of salient propriety involving said individual's predictive acumen. Sorry dude.
Sam: I really admire Flint's business acumen.
Max: Please, Sam, don't use the word "acumen" again.

[51|RandoM]

Oh, come on... :rolleyes:

I'm serious. It is all about the games. Look how much I had to pay just to play chromehounds!

now sure, if the psp was $15, I'd probably have one laying around somewhere, but I'd be gaming on my DS. If the DS was priced at $350, I would've bought one the moment Advance Wars DS was released.

Still having trouble understanding EA giving sony a hassle about the PSP when the only thing the PSP is seriously lacking is a solid library of software, that stuff that EA is responsible for creating, you know?

People aren't happy with how they've made it harder for the homebrew crowd, but if there were plenty of great new games to play, homebrew wouldn't have the same draw it does currently, imho.

[Serapth]

Unless the 360 starts getting truckloads more Japanese support, all signs point to 'no.'


... capcom, square, namco, team ninja, from, mistwalker....

Yeah, shitty dev support in japan. As to Japanese buying it, really who gives a shit in the end. If they "win" Europe and North America, they pretty much win. As a trend, gaming is one a downward spiral in popularity in Japan both in the arcades and at home.

Besides... wtf does that have to do with this conversation?

[Serapth]

Except that the DS became the 'in' device because of its games. The PSP was marketed as and expected by many to be the 'in' device. It was for a short time after its release, but many have discovered that its library and capabilities don't back that up well enough.


Besides, the last things publishers want is more homebrew. Shit, its already close to dreamcast easy to pirate PSP games... do they want it to be made easier for pirates?!?!

[shnastybiznastic]

Besides... wtf does that have to do with this conversation?
Well, it's a reply, to a statement, made in a thread, which I guess you could call a sort of online conversation. ;)

[Mason]

This is exactly what my first thought was. Especially with Ubisoft, EA's largest rival, focusing so heavily on the Wii. EA is letting Sony know that they aren't afraid to jump ship and Sony they better get their act together.
'Tis true. Sadly most of the bad decisions regarding the PS3 are long since chiseled in stone. If EA was going to throw its clout around on the PSP/PS3, they're many years too late.

On the other hand, Sony would seem pretty safe in calling their bluff. Like EA is really going to fail to multiplatform something. :rolleyes: Or let its developers take the risks necessary to make great DS/Wii titles. Pure fantasy.

[RMan]

Ouch. Yea, I expected this kind of reaction from publishers, but not quite this early and not really from EA (well, in retrospect I guess they have little to lose, neither Sony or MS is going to snub them). I do think this is less about the PSP and more about the PS3 and 360, an extension of the complaints about increased costs of HD development. The publishers in the industry are often going to be upset that MS and Sony have made this generation about high production values, and then dropped the responsibility of paying for it on the shoulders of the publishers, like the DS vs. PSP they can clearly see in the next generation that they have a choice (you’d likely not see these kinds of attitudes if there was no choice). I’m sure some of you would think I’m reading too much into this, but I think it’s a good sign no matter how far you take the implications. Games should be about fun, and the technology should be the means to the end, not the end.

[antoniogaud]

The only conclusion I can draw is that you can't really overcome a monopoly even with a stronger and superior product like Sony failed with the PSP. MS failed with Xbox vs PS2 and they probably will fail with Xbox 360 especially since it is:Oh well, third time is the charm, right Xbox 7200 ?

Did an Xbox touch you in your private space? Such hate...

[Serapth]

'Tis true. Sadly most of the bad decisions regarding the PS3 are long since chiseled in stone. If EA was going to throw its clout around on the PSP/PS3, they're many years too late.

On the other hand, Sony would seem pretty safe in calling their bluff. Like EA is really going to fail to multiplatform something. :rolleyes: Or let its developers take the risks necessary to make great DS/Wii titles. Pure fantasy.


Well, EA shunned the Dreamcast in a big way, and look what happenned to it. EA shunned Live support for years and that sure didnt help Microsoft with the first generation Xbox. EA gave only token support to the Gamecube.

They have more clout then you give them credit for. In many cases, no EA support in North America would be like no Capcom or Namco support in Japan. Not going to kill a console outright, but sure as hell is going to hurt.

[31 Flavas]

You could price the PSP at $15 and the DS at $350 and I'd still have the DS instead of the PSP.Oh, come on... :rolleyes:It's not like it's a lie or anything.... The Japanese are playing up to 28,000+ yen for the DS Lite at retail stores when its MSRP is only 16,800 yen. They are doing it WEEK AFTER WEEK and buying 100,000+ DS Lite per week.

28,000 yen ~~ $240 USD
16,800 yen ~~ $144 USD

[Shifteh]

I think we were excited by the technology, but the consumers have proven that actually what they want is fun.

EA in a nutshell, folks.

[Mr.Condescension]

I'm sorry, but I just don't get this at all. Everyone makes out the handheld console war to be a victory for Nintendo on par with the PS2's victory over the GC. The PSP has sold 20 Million units worldwide, and the DS has sold 22 Million worldwide. Considering you have to factor people upgrading from regular to lite that would mean more people probably currently own PSPs than DSs. The PS2 sold against the GC in better than a 4:1 ratio! PSP to DS is more like 1:1. The current best selling game in Japan is a PSP game, after all. All Sony needs to do to sell more units is to lower the price and get more big (original) titles out. I really think it's too early to call this race.

As for the comparison of the PSP vs DS to the Wii vs PS3 or 360 vs PS3 there's one key ingredient that people are forgetting. In the handheld market the PSP has to fight uphill against a decade or more of Nintendo domination. In the Console market the Wii and the 360 have to fight an uphill battle against a decade or more of Sony domination. That is an important distinction to make when analysing market trends.

[ElPresidente]

I think we were excited by the technology, but the consumers have proven that actually what they want is fun.

And the PSP stopped you from making fun games how EA? Fun isn't possible on the PSP. Lumines is crap. Loco Roco stupid. </sarcasm>

The central focus of the DS is the interface. It really rotates around its multiple ways of letting the consumer control things. Nintendo didn't spend a lot of energy on the processor/guts. The screens are small and pretty ordinary, besides the touchscreen. But I guess the key point of the DS is the software. It has some crazy kickbutt games. They are completely new and original and it has all types.

Now I don't know if the interface has precipitated the great software, or if Nintendo has just pushed for these games but the end result is lots of games that people want to play.

I don't know if I agree with that. I think the interface has allowed for some funky ideas that wouldn't be possible without the stylus but some of the best games on the system can function just as well without touchscreen functionality. The New Super Mario Bros, Advanced Wars: Dual Strike, Castlevania: Dawn of Sorrow (the touch screen use in that game is one of the weakest "me too" uses of the screen I've seen), Mario Kart DS, Animal Crossing: Wild World, etc.

Personally I hunger with more games with limited touch screen use. I really do. It is a pain in the arse as far as I'm concerned and is not conducive to comfortable play.

You make a lot of good points. One other I'd like to add is that, since the DS is much less powerful, it costs a lot less to make games for it. When games cost less to make, developers can take more risks. A low budget game does not need to sell as many copies to turn a profit. A low budget game that sells well, makes a lot more profit.

Now I think we're getting closer to the mark. A lot closer.

However I don't think it is the whole of the story (I'm not going to profess to knowing what the rest of the story is, I'll just sit here and pass judgement on the thoughts of others like the arrogant SOB I am. :D ) as a lot of the games that are popular amongst the casual gaming public have been some of the most derivative.

I think it is more likely that the DS is currently doing better as a games machine not because the development costs of the system compared to the PSP encourage risk taking in game development I think they just encourage game development period.

Yeah, shitty dev support in japan. As to Japanese buying it, really who gives a shit in the end. If they "win" Europe and North America, they pretty much win. As a trend, gaming is one a downward spiral in popularity in Japan both in the arcades and at home.

It still bamboozles me that people don't get this. Yes. Japan is an important market but it is not the only market and it is not a bigger market than the rest of the world combined.

Fear the gamer otaku squad. :D

[RMan]

The PSP has sold 20 Million units worldwide, and the DS has sold 22 Million worldwide.
Hehe, that’s if you compare Sony’s units shipped numbers to Nintendo’s sales numbers. Around here, and I’m sure elsewhere, there are a lot of PSPs on shelves, which does not a sale make.
The current best selling game in Japan is a PSP game, after all.
Do you have a link for that?
All Sony needs to do to sell more units is to lower the price and get more big (original) titles out.
That’s all, eh? Although lowering the price would help, and is in their control, the games have been the problem with the system and losing support from companies like EA is precisely the problem. Get some big titles, that’s pretty much the solution for any system to be a success, but it’s far easier said than done.
In the handheld market the PSP has to fight uphill against a decade or more of Nintendo domination.
Yea, but before it’s release most comments believed it’s decade or more of extreme console dominance and general portable device dominance would allow Sony to crush their competition. Nintendo’s heritage is only being talked about as a big factor now because they beat Sony. It certainly didn’t stop the PS1 from beating the N64, I’d say Sony fans or those confused by what happened should simply realize that the system+games offered a better experience, period. Happened with the N64/PS1, PS2/Xbox, DS/PSP, it’s really nothing new. If only techies bought games then perhaps the system with the fastest components would always win, but thankfully that’s not the case.
In the Console market the Wii and the 360 have to fight an uphill battle against a decade or more of Sony domination.
Well, even to look at it from that angle, I think you’d have to be seriously underestimating the name Nintendo has in gaming history. For gamers over 20ish, Nintendo still has a VERY strong name, and with their back catalogue being able to inspire a tremendous amount of nostalgia, I’m really not sure Sony’s recent dominance trumps Nintendo’s overall heritage.
I think it is more likely that the DS is currently doing better as a games machine not because the development costs of the system compared to the PSP encourage risk taking in game development I think they just encourage game development period.
This is true, but lower costs do indeed increase risk taking. The higher the costs, the less games get made, and the less developers get to make them. The first to get knocked off the list are those that don’t have a proven IP/concept to pitch, that’s the way it is. The higher the costs, the more it only makes sense for the established games.
It still bamboozles me that people don't get this. Yes. Japan is an important market but it is not the only market and it is not a bigger market than the rest of the world combined.
Sure, but in some cases it’s discussed that winning a territory is all that matters, IOW, if you win NA by 51% and Europe by 51% and lose Japan by 90%, you are not winning 2:1. Also, Japan is a major force as far as trend setting and development, especially when 2 of the 3 console systems are made there. Winning hearts in Japan is more powerful than most other territories because of this.

[31 Flavas]

I'm sorry, but I just don't get this at all. Everyone makes out the handheld console war to be a victory for Nintendo on par with the PS2's victory over the GC. The PSP has sold 20 Million units worldwide, and the DS has sold 22 Million worldwide.Sorry, the PSP has shipped 20 million worldwide. If you take actual SALES numbers from MediaCreate (~3.5 million) and NPD (~4.7 milllion) and assume 5 or 6 million SOLD PSP in Europe (on 6.6 million shipped) you come out to 13-14 million PSP _actually_ sold worldwide. You can use the same method to verify Nintendo's number too.

22 million vs 14 million is a big difference.... and Nintendo still has Pokemon Diamond/Pearl and FF III to wheather... There is going to be an ever

Considering you have to factor people upgrading from regular to lite that would mean more people probably currently own PSPs than DSs. The PS2 sold against the GC in better than a 4:1 ratio!If you want to drag out statistics, here are some to chew on. Life to Date in Japan the PSP has sold 3.6-3.7 million units. Year to date the DS Lite alone has sold 3.5 million, DS/Lite together have sold 3.9 million. The Life to date sold numbers on DS+Lite in Japan are now over 10 million units.

PSP to DS is more like 1:1. The current best selling game in Japan is a PSP game, after all.So I heard, SD Gundam G Generation. 150,000 units, first week since forever they get a game in the Top 10 since all the other DS games have been crowding the crap out. Lets see... how many other DS games are on the top 10? Oh 5? And geez... it looks like Brain Age 2 is going to be the second DS game in the 3 million units sold club next week. How many games does Sony have in even the 1 million units sold club? Only 2? And thats worldwide? The DS has 13 by now just in Japan... with a handful in the 2 million sold club and 1 already in the 3 million unit sold club. While Nintendogs has sold 7 million copies worldwide....

The PSP is a brilliant device, but just brought to market *way* to early and hobbled by lack of focus and bad management.

All Sony needs to do to sell more units is to lower the price and get more big (original) titles out. I really think it's too early to call this race.They need to focus of the damn thing on games instead of letting their Music and Movies deparments try to sell shit on it as well. They need to stop fucking with the firmware and forcing its install with new games. The games won't sell if the firmware upgrades kill supposed features of the system.

If EA one of your biggest supporters back hands you and tells you to get your shit togheter, you better listen. They won't continue to support a sinking ship forever, no matter how "cool" you are with the rest of the world.

As for the comparison of the PSP vs DS to the Wii vs PS3 or 360 vs PS3 there's one key ingredient that people are forgetting. In the handheld market the PSP has to fight uphill against a decade or more of Nintendo domination.And by all means tripped and fallen face first into the pavement just like every other competitor that ever tried to crush GameBoy under a technological superiority foot. If anyone would just make a modest unit, with good battery life, and a focus on games... They make a good first impression and could probably get Nintendo to sweat a bit! As it is Nintendo iss on the beach sipping on mai tai's.

In the Console market the Wii and the 360 have to fight an uphill battle against a decade or more of Sony domination. That is an important distinction to make when analysing market trends.And if Sony keeps acting like idiots, that mountain domination is just going to disappear because few people will program for their system anymore. While Nintendo has been schmoozing with the developers and gathering customer/fan interest. Unless Sony gets its act together Nintendo could just walk right in.

[Mr.Condescension]

Do you have a link for that?

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=10442

That’s all, eh? Although lowering the price would help, and is in their control, the games have been the problem with the system and losing support from companies like EA is precisely the problem. Get some big titles, that’s pretty much the solution for any system to be a success, but it’s far easier said than done.

You act as though Sony doesn't have big titles in the pipe already, such as LocoRoco, GTA: Vice City Stories, Lumines 2, Ratchet and Clank. I think the real test will be in 2007 with FFVII: Crisis Core, Devil May Cry, Silent Hill Origins, and MGS Portable Ops.

I admit, the remaining line-up for 2006 isn't incredibly strong, but my point is that with 20 million on shelves (and the bulk of that has to have sold, otherwise they wouldn't build and ship more... shipped vs. sold is a pretty crappy argument) that's still a considerable install base for less than 2 years into the machine's lifespan, and all they need is one killer app and they're right back into the fight. It's nothing like the last console generation where there was no way anyone was going to dethrone Sony 2 years into launch.

This is true, but lower costs do indeed increase risk taking. The higher the costs, the less games get made, and the less developers get to make them. The first to get knocked off the list are those that don’t have a proven IP/concept to pitch, that’s the way it is. The higher the costs, the more it only makes sense for the established games.

The difference in development cost between the two handheld systems, while measurable, isn't as large as people seem to think.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6155650.html

Average Development Costs for non-budget titles:

PSP = $541,000
DS = $342,000
PS2 = $1.2 million

I guess 50% more is alot, but it's less than half the total of making a PS2 game.

[Mr.Condescension]

Sorry, the PSP has shipped 20 million worldwide. If you take actual SALES numbers from MediaCreate (~3.5 million) and NPD (~4.7 milllion) and assume 5 or 6 million SOLD PSP in Europe (on 6.6 million shipped) you come out to 13-14 million PSP _actually_ sold worldwide. You can use the same method to verify Nintendo's number too.

Those numbers don't look at all credible. I find it highly unlikely that there are are 7 Million PSPs just sitting on shelves somewhere. Do you actually have links to any of this? No one manufactures and ships stockpiles of hardware in case it's needed. It's wasteful and expensive to do so. Also no store is going to ask for new stock if they haven't sold through their last shipments. If they shipped that many units they probably sold at least 90% of the stock.

edit: Also, even if it is a 14:22 ratio as you suggest, which seems highly doubtful, that's a hell of alot better than both Nintendo and Microsoft did COMBINED last console generation vs. Sony. 14:22 isn't great, or even necessarily good, but it's certainly not "put a fork in 'er, she's done".

[RMan]

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=10442
You fell for my trap :). Ok, even in the page you listed, the total sales for DS games in the top ten is more than the PSP, look one week back, and you get this…
http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=10354
Which is obviously way worse for your argument. If you read the text in the link you supplied, it also doesn’t bode well for hardware sales. Essentially, what you supplied was likely one of the PSP’s more shining moments, and it’s still losing, significantly. I’m not sure how that’s supportive unless you cherry pick stats, which is not analytical.
You act as though Sony doesn't have big titles in the pipe already, such as LocoRoco, GTA: Vice City Stories, Lumines 2, Ratchet and Clank.
I’m not ignoring what they have, just saying it’s not cutting it with regards to their competition.
..that's still a considerable install base for less than 2 years into the machine's lifespan, and all they need is one killer app and they're right back into the fight.
Sure, but again, that’s far easier said than done, and with more developers leaning towards the DS I just don’t think they’ll be able to pull it off. Certainly not impossible, but the safe bet is clearly on the DS.
It's nothing like the last console generation where there was no way anyone was going to dethrone Sony 2 years into launch.
Hehe, I’m not so sure, but whatever. I think the PS2’s lock was far less obvious then than it is now, and I think the DS/PSP contest will play out similarly.
The difference in development cost between the two handheld systems, while measurable, isn't as large as people seem to think.
Ehh, those figures seem pretty reasonable to me, but I’m not sure how that really changes anything. You’re still asking developers to pay more for a system that has less of a userbase, and likely sells more units of IP/port style games. It’s hard to see how it’d be attractive to most developers.

[ElPresidente]

This is true, but lower costs do indeed increase risk taking. The higher the costs, the less games get made, and the less developers get to make them. The first to get knocked off the list are those that don’t have a proven IP/concept to pitch, that’s the way it is. The higher the costs, the more it only makes sense for the established games.

I'm certainly not disputing that it does allow greater risks to be taken but what I'm saying is that the DS is not riding on the back of those risky titles but on the back of those established franchises and genres. Electroplankton, as cool as it is, is not exactly a mass appeal title.

Sure, but in some cases it’s discussed that winning a territory is all that matters, IOW, if you win NA by 51% and Europe by 51% and lose Japan by 90%, you are not winning 2:1. Also, Japan is a major force as far as trend setting and development, especially when 2 of the 3 console systems are made there. Winning hearts in Japan is more powerful than most other territories because of this.

For 'gamers' sure. But the casual market who make up the majority of game buying public world-wide simply don't care enough about games to pay attention to that sort of thing. First person shooters, for instance, are one of the biggest selling genres in the market and that is certainly not due to the work of Japanese developers.

Japan is important, sure... but it is not the be all and end all which is all I'm saying.

[31 Flavas]

Those numbers don't look at all credible. I find it highly unlikely that there are are 7 Million PSPs just sitting on shelves somewhere. Do you actually have links to any of this?MediaCreate numbers are Japanese numbers, they are very accurate. English media create website. (http://www.m-create.com/eng/e_ranking.html) The Japanese side of their site has more numbers and info, but it is of course in Japanese. The MagicBox (http://www.the-magicbox.com/topten.htm) compiles the weekly numbers and provides some of the stats in English.

NPD of course provides the US numbers, cubed3.com (http://www.cubed3.com/news/5531) provided June's numbers.

And the EU shippment numbers come from Sony's July 24th financial reports.

I posted actual numbers in this thread (http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15481&page=3&pp=10).

No one manufactures and ships stockpiles of hardware in case it's needed. It's wasteful and expensive to do so. Also no store is going to ask for new stock if they haven't sold through their last shipments. If they shipped that many units they probably sold at least 90% of the stock.Accumulated shipment numbers for Japan according to their Financial Report was 5.20 million units and they've only sold 3.6 million PSP in Japan, so they have 1.6 million PSP unsold in Japan. Accumulated shipments for North America, again according to their financial statement were 8.17 million units NPD June said only 4.7 million units sold... so there for 3.47 million PSP are unsold in america.... So right there you have 5 million unsold PSP.

Sorry, but the numbers don't lie. And you can't say that the NPD numbers are wildly increadibly inaccurate since Japan + NPD + EU numbers add up just fine to Nintendo's announced 22 million worldwide number.

Sony has a huge stock piles of PSPs just sitting all over the world. The only reason I can see why they keep shipping more is to keep up apprearances that they arn't doing "that bad". Else its arrogence...


14:22 isn't great, or even necessarily good, but it's certainly not "put a fork in 'er, she's done".Oh PUHLeaze... The xbox has a 1 million unit worldwide lead over the GameCube and "everyone" considers the Gamecube "dead". This is an 8 million unit lead! Put a fork in 'er, she's done already.

[RMan]

I'm certainly not disputing that it does allow greater risks to be taken but what I'm saying is that the DS is not riding on the back of those risky titles but on the back of those established franchises and genres. Electroplankton, as cool as it is, is not exactly a mass appeal title.
Other than trying to bash the DS, why would you ignore Nintendogs, Brain Age, Trauma Center, as well as others to talk about Electroplakton. Nintendogs and Trauma Center are clearly not low budget, but are also far from established franchises and genres. Brain Age is clearly a risky, relatively low budget project that has been wildly successful. Sure, the DS gets sales from established franchises and genres (as all systems do), but is also getting a greater boost from the unconventional titles than perhaps any other system we’ve seen, and it’s having a significant impact on the system’s success.
First person shooters, for instance, are one of the biggest selling genres in the market and that is certainly not due to the work of Japanese developers.
Hehe, sure, and it’s easily the biggest genre not influenced by the Japanese, so what. If you think not getting Japanese support for the Xbox didn’t hurt it, then you are very, very wrong. In the end, be it the PSP, Xbox, or any other system, to not get the support of the Japanese developers is a serious blow, period. If you lose Japan, you lose money and developers, which loses more money worldwide, the only way it evens out is if your competition fails similarly in other equally important territories.

[ElPresidente]

Other than trying to bash the DS, why would you ignore Nintendogs, Brain Age, Trauma Center, as well as others to talk about Electroplakton. Nintendogs and Trauma Center are clearly not low budget, but are also far from established franchises and genres. Brain Age is clearly a risky, relatively low budget project that has been wildly successful. Sure, the DS gets sales from established franchises and genres (as all systems do), but is also getting a greater boost from the unconventional titles than perhaps any other system we’ve seen, and it’s having a significant impact on the system’s success.

I'm not here to bash the DS. Four months ago and it might have been a safe assumption but after going through many months of "Why oh why I did I buy a DS" I think it is more than safe to say that as far as games go the DS is the better purchase out of Nintendo's offering and the PSP. At the start the PSP had the edge but as time has gone on and the DS's offerings have become better while the PSP's offerings have become... well not worse... more like non-existent. ;)

I still stand by my point though, as far as the general games consumer is concerned the whole stylus thing has not lead to better games. There are exceptions of course but there are a lot of games that could have got by sans touch screen. Brain Training is an exception to the rule, not one that proves it as far as I'm concerned.

Hehe, sure, and it’s easily the biggest genre not influenced by the Japanese, so what. If you think not getting Japanese support for the Xbox didn’t hurt it, then you are very, very wrong. In the end, be it the PSP, Xbox, or any other system, to not get the support of the Japanese developers is a serious blow, period. If you lose Japan, you lose money and developers, which loses more money worldwide, the only way it evens out is if your competition fails similarly in other equally important territories.

It is a blow but not the end of the world. In non-Japanese nations the biggest. Of course not getting Japanese support for the 360 hurt it, the point I am making is that you can gain a lead in every other region bar Japan and come out on top. Yes, it needs to be a significant lead in those other regions but it is not the death of a system.

I am not here to bag Japanese developers or the Japanese market. I am simply trying to say that success in one market does not translate into world wide success. Dunno why people get so put out by that. :P

[Mason]

Well, EA shunned the Dreamcast in a big way, and look what happenned to it. EA shunned Live support for years and that sure didnt help Microsoft with the first generation Xbox. EA gave only token support to the Gamecube.

They have more clout then you give them credit for. In many cases, no EA support in North America would be like no Capcom or Namco support in Japan. Not going to kill a console outright, but sure as hell is going to hurt.
EA just isn't an ideological company, though. They snub platforms if they don't think that they can make a profit on them, and that's the end of it. If Sony can't sell enough PS3s to provide a reasonably attractive install base, then EA jumping ship on them will be just another twist in the (highly improbable, IMHO) downward spiral. More effect than cause. But we agree that if, say, Madden '07 fails to materialize for the PS3, it won't be a good year for Sony.

[RMan]

I still stand by my point though, as far as the general games consumer is concerned the whole stylus thing has not lead to better games. There are exceptions of course but there are a lot of games that could have got by sans touch screen. Brain Training is an exception to the rule, not one that proves it as far as I'm concerned.
Hehe, well, then I’d have to say nothing will prove the touch screen’s worth to you, because all that do will be declared as exceptions to your rule. Although I haven’t played Trauma Center, Nintendogs and BA are clear examples of games that would be shadows of the experiences that they are if not for the touch screen.
Dunno why people get so put out by that. :P
I think your likely misreading the posts and making assumptions that people are talking about winning at any degree. Often I think when people seem ‘put out’ as you say they’re talking about a whomping in Japan, like the Xbox generally receives. In that case, as already discussed, you need a similar whomping in another influential region(s) to make up for it. Many like to “call the game” if Japan is lost so significantly, and that may bug you, but it’s still a huge blow that’s as pretty good reason to make the declaration (although it’s clearly never truly over till it’s over).

[ElPresidente]

Hehe, well, then I’d have to say nothing will prove the touch screen’s worth to you, because all that do will be declared as exceptions to your rule. Although I haven’t played Trauma Center, Nintendogs and BA are clear examples of games that would be shadows of the experiences that they are if not for the touch screen.

I think you're misunderstanding what I'm trying to say. I'm not saying that the touch screen can't deliver fantastic and unique gaming experiences. You'll note I raised Electroplankton earlier. I'm just saying that I don't think the reason for the DS's commercial success can be put down to the unique play experiences the touch screen can offer. No, I'm not a big fan of the touch screen but that's irrelevant to my point. I'm just trying to say the system is winning commercially because it has more good games and their existence is not solely dependant on the DS screen and more due to the fact that there are simply being more good games being released on the system.

I think your likely misreading the posts and making assumptions that people are talking about winning at any degree. Often I think when people seem ‘put out’ as you say they’re talking about a whomping in Japan, like the Xbox generally receives. In that case, as already discussed, you need a similar whomping in another influential region(s) to make up for it. Many like to “call the game” if Japan is lost so significantly, and that may bug you, but it’s still a huge blow that’s as pretty good reason to make the declaration (although it’s clearly never truly over till it’s over).

I am simply speaking against the earlier comment by Borys and just the general attitude (not necesarily in this thread or even this website but this pervading attitude amongst gamers saying that no Japan ergo means loss. It is a blow but not a defining point. We keep looking at this market as gamers and it isn't gamers that define success it is the casual consumers as they make up a much larger portion of the gaming market in terms of dollars spent than those people who take their gaming seriously.

[sol740]

I really, really wanted a PSP when they first came out but couldn't justify the cost. Now I'm glad I made that decision as every friend I know that purchased a PSP has since traded it in, minus one. I think hes stubborn. Lumines was awesome, and I hear Liberty Cities was cool, but all the talk around the circle, and the office is about the DS. Personally I can't stand the design. Its absolutely hideous, but I'm almost convinced. Though a $99 PSP might swing my attention.

[RMan]

I'm just saying that I don't think the reason for the DS's commercial success can be put down to the unique play experiences the touch screen can offer.
Well, no one thing makes a system what it is, but for your information, I would absolutely not have bought the DS if not for the touch screen. IMO, without the touch screen there's no reason for the dual screen, and without that, it's no better than my SP. If that were the case, it’d have gotten few exclusives and I don’t see how it’d have garnered my interest. All the games I have enjoyed on the DS benefited greatly from the TS, and even the ones that clearly could be done without it (Advance Wars) were better because of it, and most wouldn’t have been good enough for me to play it otherwise (Brain Age). I think it’s commercial success beyond it’s competition is clearly due to the TS, you can choose to view it differently, but to save some time, in my mind it’s very clear, without the TS, the DS wouldn’t hold a candle to what it is with it (I own an SP, and that’s how I feel about it now).

[31 Flavas]

Hehe, well, then I’d have to say nothing will prove the touch screen’s worth to you, because all that do will be declared as exceptions to your rule. Although I haven’t played Trauma Center, Nintendogs and BA are clear examples of games that would be shadows of the experiences that they are if not for the touch screen.As well as Kirby, Meteos, Magnetica, Lost Magic, Big Brain Academy, as well as Metroid Hunters to name a few more.

In other games where the touch screen isn't nearly so integral, it's really handy for what it allows. Such as in NSMB, Animal Crossing, Advance Wars: DS, Phoenix Wright, ect. Espically menu access. Sure you can click your way over or move a free motion pointer to the right options, but with touch screen, you just tap the selection you want.

I think you're misunderstanding what I'm trying to say. I'm not saying that the touch screen can't deliver fantastic and unique gaming experiences. You'll note I raised Electroplankton earlier. I'm just saying that I don't think the reason for the DS's commercial success can be put down to the unique play experiences the touch screen can offer.The DS's features (dual screens, touch screeen, microphone) allow for a variety of new gameplay options and even non-game applications. In otherwords, it just flat out allows new stuff to happen. The newest non game out in Japan is "Shaberu! DS Oryouri Nabi" which translates to Talk! DS Cooking Navi. It's a digital cook book basicly. Which gives you step by step instructions for preparing and cooking the meals. But since your hands are going to be busy it uses the microphone for input as well. Don't know how to peel the potato? Just say "Show me!" Finished with the step? Say "Ok!" Need a timer? Say "Timer! 5 minutes!" "start!". And the touch screen makes it real easy to find and select a meal or increase/decrease number of people to be served.

This "game" is selling like hot cakes. Sure you *could* do the same thing with the PSP, but it'd be a lot less convenient and less "fun". A lot of the Japanese view the games with touch input that you are dismissing in the same way. Sure, I could be doing this same thing on the PSP, PS2, or GC, with "real" controls, but it's a lot more fun and convenient with the dual screens and touch screens controls or, for that matter, just certain parts of the game touch controlled or optional touch controls.

Does this mean the PSP would be selling better with touch screen? I dunno, but it would certainly provide for new games and game ideas, in additon to the already established "standard" games. A developer could use the touch input or not it's their decision, but the option is there! Maybe next game or just this one place in a current game could benifit.... If the games catch on and be come popular who knows...

[ElPresidente]

31 Flavas, I'm not criticising the touch screen nor am I saying it does not allow for unique gaming experiences (esp when combined with other features like the microphone), I'm just saying I don't think it is the reason for its success. That's all I'm saying, nothing more. People disagree and that's cool, I've got no proof, its just my thoughts. However I'm just talking about the reasons for the DS's success nothing further.

[31 Flavas]

31 Flavas, I'm not criticising the touch screen nor am I saying it does not allow for unique gaming experiences (esp when combined with other features like the microphone), I'm just saying I don't think it is the reason for its success. That's all I'm saying, nothing more. People disagree and that's cool, I've got no proof, its just my thoughts. However I'm just talking about the reasons for the DS's success nothing further.Well, I tried to be level and not attack in that post, but I guess I still game off pretty agressive. Don't blame you really...

All I'd like to just present evidence to the contrary, that's all. That the touch screen has been an integral reason for it's success along with all the other reasons "GameBoy" has always been a success (affordable, compact, good battery life, etc..)