EU Stepping into the Blu-Ray vs. HD-DVD War

[bapenguin]

Evil Avatar reader civil_dead sent me a link to a Yahoo News Article (http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060809/tc_afp/euusjapanitcompanycompetitionsonytoshiba;_ylt=As2M kNQlg3Z4.FL0naeeTzWSxLEF;_ylu=X3oDMTBjMHVqMTQ4BHNl YwN5bnN1YmNhdA--) that talks about the European Union looking into Sony and Toshiba in regards to the next gen format war.According to Stephen Kinsella with law firm Sidley Austin in Brussels, the commission is seeking to find out whether the companies are trying to impose their formats on movie studios and computer makers with exclusivity contracts.

This whole format war is such a mess. All for the almighty $.

[GrinR]

Yeah! God, I swear I fucking hate the $.


:rolleyes:



It sure is better when there's no competition over it.



:rolleyes:

[fitbabits]

Evil Avatar reader civil_dead sent me a link to a Yahoo News Article (http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060809/tc_afp/euusjapanitcompanycompetitionsonytoshiba;_ylt=As2M kNQlg3Z4.FL0naeeTzWSxLEF;_ylu=X3oDMTBjMHVqMTQ4BHNl YwN5bnN1YmNhdA--) that talks about the European Union looking into Sony and Toshiba in regards to the next gen format war.

This whole format war is such a mess. All for the almighty $.
Not just for the almight dollar - it's for the hearts and minds of entertainment connoisseurs everywhere.

[Johan]

What irritates me is that, like the vast majority of mainstream consumers, I'm quite happy with my DVDs and don't feel any great compulsion to move to either format; definitely not to the extent that the VHS to DVD move encouraged my tech-adoption and spending on DVDs. I just don't care enough about HD yet to want to bother, and the whole thing just irritates me a bit.

I understand many of y'all on this site own HD sets and have oodles of $$$$$ to spend on adopting the latest/greatest techie gear. I don't begrudge you that option, and I'm glad for you, but I don't have the cash and I don't see a real benefit, for the typical individual, in either format...definitely not enough to justify the expense, at least.

[Kamalot]

I can think of many other things to spend $500 on instead of a new movie player, so I can spend more on re-buying my movies all over again.

You can go on a cruise for $500.

[bapenguin]

It sure is better when there's no competition over it.

There's a fine line between competition and standards. And when the consumers suffer the competition is no longer good and there should be a standard. And this is a shining example.

[Tolkoto]

I really wish they would just both go away.

[Franjo]

I'll stick to hearing the Cobra Kai Sensei say "Sweep the Leg!" on dvd for a long time to come thanks.

[SexualChoc]

Can't the EU fuck off? Sticking their nose in where it's not there business. Let the consume decide who 'wins' when they buy it or not. One has more disk space, one can play existing DVD movies. Which do you want?

[Norse]

I can think of many other things to spend $500 on instead of a new movie player, so I can spend more on re-buying my movies all over again.

You can go on a cruise for $500.

And you think a cruise is worth more money than a movie player that will be yours for more than 2-weeks?

[tombofsoldier]

I know that monopolies are bad, but Europe just seems to go over the fucking edge with this investigation crap. You'll notice that most of the time they are investigating foriegn countries as well.

[MajSheppard]

At least the EU is doing what the U.S. Government won't in standing up for the little guy.

[51|RandoM]

Not just for the almight dollar - it's for the hearts and minds of entertainment connoisseurs everywhere.

...which is just the shortest path to their $.

[absolut taco]

Can't the EU fuck off? Sticking their nose in where it's not there business. Let the consume decide who 'wins' when they buy it or not. One has more disk space, one can play existing DVD movies. Which do you want?
Blu-ray players can't play DVDs? When the fuck did this happen?

[GrinR]

There's a fine line between competition and standards. And when the consumers suffer the competition is no longer good and there should be a standard. And this is a shining example.

A standard decided upon by whom? The (elected) government? The (unelected) "industry standards committee"?

I prefer the standard to be decided by the consumer to either of those options. If you don't like the selection - don't buy. It's that simple. As many others have stated in the past BR/HDDVD threads, DVD is plenty good.

The use of the word "suffer" in this case I believe is a reach. Consumers aren't suffering from lack of either of these technologies. You could build a significantly better case for consumers suffering from the lack of HDTV standardization and proliferation than BR/HDDVD.

Put another way, if both formats failed and never saw the light of day - what percentage of consumers would "suffer" for lack of it?

[GrinR]

At least the EU is doing what the U.S. Government won't in standing up for the little guy.

The "little guy" can't afford a BluRay player.

[Eric_T_Cheng]

It sure is better when there's no competition over it.



:rolleyes:

Halliburton?

[Khash]

Blu-Ray players can play everything. How else is the PS3 going to play PS1/2 games?

[Norse]

Blu-ray players can't play DVDs? When the fuck did this happen?

Well it didn't happen. All BR and HDDVD players read DVD's. The only difference is that HDDVD players do it natively while BR players need an additional red laser to read DVD's I think.

[GrinR]

Halliburton?

Save that noise for a different thread. We're talking about next-gen DVD formats here. Geez, and people say I'm one-note. :rolleyes:

[bapenguin]

A standard decided upon by whom? The (elected) government? The (unelected) "industry standards committee"?

Yes some sort of standards comittee. I don't care if they are elected or not elected.


Put another way, if both formats failed and never saw the light of day - what percentage of consumers would "suffer" for lack of it?

Well it depends how you define consumer. If consumer are people that bought the product...that would be 100% would suffer.

If the products never saw the light of day we wouldn't be having this discussion.

[absolut taco]

Well it didn't happen. All BR and HDDVD players read DVD's. The only difference is that HDDVD players do it natively while BR players need an additional red laser to read DVD's I think.
That explains the $1000 / $500 difference! :rolleyes:

[GrinR]

Yes some sort of standards comittee. I don't care if they are elected or not elected.

The standards commitee then becomes the kingmaker. This happens ALL THE TIME. Is it good for the consumer? Sometimes, sometimes not. What's always good for the consumer? Open competition - VHS over betamax, DVD over DIVX and laserdisc, audio cassette over 8-track, and so on. (Note: please let's not get into the ancient argument about betamax, laserdisc or 8-track quality) The settling BY consumers of the DVD-+R foolishness is an excellent example - consumers didn't want to pick, so drives began to support both by default.

If you buy it, they will bow to you. If you don't, it's dropped. Vote with your wallet.

Well it depends how you define consumer. If consumer are people that bought the product...that would be 100% would suffer.

If the products never saw the light of day we wouldn't be having this discussion.

This is a spurious argument and you know it. Hardly anyone has a BluRay or HD-DVD player at this point. What's it's market penetration, a fraction of a fraction of a percent? Weep for those who bought DIXV players, or minidisc players, (or PSPs... *cough*) - nascent standards strangled in the crib by consumer spending savvy.

The answer to the question is: If both standards vaporized, a small selection of the AV afficianado market would cry in despair because they wouldn't be able to spend more thousands on their shockingly expensive home theaters.

I'll save my tears for something worthy.

[Majster Wichajster]

They won't get my dollars!

I won't get them too... :(

[XenonCJ]

Anyone who buys HDDVDs are dumb.

[XenonCJ]

Anyone who buys BluRay DVDs are dumb.

[Schnoogs]

Yeah! God, I swear I fucking hate the $.


:rolleyes:



It sure is better when there's no competition over it.



:rolleyes:

Competition between manufacturers is fantastic...competition between standards is horrible.

[Citizen Philip]

I see no value for my money in either format. They can go eat Mr T's balls, as far as I am concerned.

Thumbs down. Wee-wease the wions!

[Schnoogs]

I see no value for my money in either format. They can go eat Mr T's balls, as far as I am concerned.

Thumbs down. Wee-wease the wions!

If there was one format I would see extreme value. But until the dust settles I'm staying clear away from both.

I have a 1080p LCD and a 720p projector that are jonesing for some HD movies. Its too bad we're not in the same position we were when DVD was released. One format with multiple manufacturers fighting for our dollar. I guess we should feel lucky that at least one format in our lifetimes was done right from day one.

What ever happened to SACD vs DVD-Audio??? ;) ;)

[Roc Ingersol]

What ever happened to SACD vs DVD-Audio??? ;) ;)
Same thing that happened to S-VHS and ED-Beta.

[Schnoogs]

Same thing that happened to S-VHS and ED-Beta.

Forever relegated to niche segments.

[GrinR]

If there was one format I would see extreme value. But until the dust settles I'm staying clear away from both.

I have a 1080p LCD and a 720p projector that are jonesing for some HD movies. Its too bad we're not in the same position we were when DVD was released. One format with multiple manufacturers fighting for our dollar. I guess we should feel lucky that at least one format in our lifetimes was done right from day one.

What ever happened to SACD vs DVD-Audio??? ;) ;)

If you have a good upscalar, you'll get a lot of milage out of your setup. I know I do. The difference between my 360/PS2/Toshiba DVD player and my OPPO HD upscaling DVD player is certainly noticeable. $150-200 and my whole library is rarin' to go.

[Schnoogs]

I'm forced to upscale now via my HTPC. Looks good on the 37" TV. Doesnt look good on the 120" DLP projector image.

Upscaling is certainly nice but pales compared to true HD. You cant fake detail that was never in the source to begin with.

[KidCactus]

I can think of many other things to spend $500 on instead of a new movie player, so I can spend more on re-buying my movies all over again.

You can go on a cruise for $500.
Why would you have to re-buy your movies? Would your DVD's stop working all of a sudden?

[GrinR]

I'm forced to upscale now via my HTPC. Looks good on the 37" TV. Doesnt look good on the 120" DLP projector image.

Upscaling is certainly nice but pales compared to true HD. You cant fake detail that was never in the source to begin with.

True that - but consider the costs! True HD is going to run you a minimum of what? $400? Just to have the ability? Then to re-buy or buy HD-DVD content? Cha-chinnnng!

Under 200 to get a nice picture is hard to argue with, unless you're really swimming in discretionary income.

[Schnoogs]

Why would you have to re-buy your movies? Would your DVD's stop working all of a sudden?

Why buy an HD player to play your old DVDs??? The whole idea is you buy the new player and then buy the HD versions of your favorite movies (which you most likely already own on DVD).

Sure you can play your old DVDs until you replace them but ultimately you're gonna want the HD version...why watch Star Wars on crummy DVD when it will be out in 1080p splendor!!

[Schnoogs]

True that - but consider the costs! True HD is going to run you a minimum of what? $400? Just to have the ability? Then to re-buy or buy HD-DVD content? Cha-chinnnng!

Under 200 to get a nice picture is hard to argue with, unless you're really swimming in discretionary income.

I agree...there arent many cheap pathways to having a true HD theater setup so any extra life out of our DVDs is a good thing.

I'm in an awkward spot in which I've already spent a LOT on a projector so not getting HD movies almost makes my projector seem like a collosal impulse buy.

I'm already $$$$$$ in the hole...eventually I will need to jump onto some formats bandwagon to get the most out of my current display investment.

[Kamalot]

And you think a cruise is worth more money than a movie player that will be yours for more than 2-weeks?
Why yes. In the grand scheme of things, a cruise is much nicer than a movie player. If someone was going to give you a device, that plays movies, or a free cruise, which would you take?

Besides, I alreay have several devices that play movies. It isn't worth $500-$1000 for another one.

[KidCactus]

Why buy an HD player to play your old DVDs??? The whole idea is you buy the new player and then buy the HD versions of your favorite movies (which you most likely already own on DVD).

Sure you can play your old DVDs until you replace them but ultimately you're gonna want the HD version...why watch Star Wars on crummy DVD when it will be out in 1080p splendor!!
Personally I would never buy a HD-DVD/Blu-ray version of a DVD I already own, even though I love HD.

[Kamalot]

I'm in an awkward spot in which I've already spent a LOT on a projector so not getting HD movies almost makes my projector seem like a collosal impulse buy.I'm in the same boat you are in. I have a kick-ass HD projector. Games look freakin sweet on it, but so do regular DVDs. I enjoy a regular DVD on my projector anyway. Would I enjoy an HD version more? You bet. $500-$1000 more? Hell No!

[Schnoogs]

Why yes. In the grand scheme of things, a cruise is much nicer than a movie player. If someone was going to give you a device, that plays movies, or a free cruise, which would you take?

Besides, I alreay have several devices that play movies. It isn't worth $500-$1000 for another one.

I agree with you...a cruise could be so theraputic for the mind and soul. I've been working 60+ hour weeks lately...a cruise would do so much more for my moral over the next few months than a movie player.

[Mr.Condescension]

Well it didn't happen. All BR and HDDVD players read DVD's. The only difference is that HDDVD players do it natively while BR players need an additional red laser to read DVD's I think.

I believe both blu-ray and HD-DVD use blue lasers for HD discs and red lasers for DVDs and CDs. They both use blue lasers so they can pack more data on to the discs. A red laser isn't fine enough.

Personally I would never buy a HD-DVD/Blu-ray version of a DVD I already own, even though I love HD.

I would re-buy some of the movies I already own on DVD, just as I did with VHS, but probably not all of them. I will probably buy a few classic favorites on blu-ray and then buy future movies in blu-ray. As of 6-12 months ago I stopped buying DVDs simply because I'd rather wait for them in HD.

[Dracula-X]

I believe both blu-ray and HD-DVD use blue lasers for HD discs and red lasers for DVDs and CDs. They both use blue lasers so they can pack more data on to the discs. A red laser isn't fine enough.
BD players use a single blue-violet laser diode to read CD/DVD/BD (produced by Nichia or Sony)

HDDVD players have separate red and blue laser diodes, although manufacturers should be adopting blue-violet lasers for their units as well, if they haven't already (I'm not aware of any at the moment).

[Savok]

Man I'm so glad the EU is here to make everything better like they always do.

[Kamalot]

I will probably buy a few classic favorites on blu-ray and then buy future movies in blu-ray.
What happens when HD-DVD wins the format war? What will you do then? ;)

[BlackPete]

And you think a cruise is worth more money than a movie player that will be yours for more than 2-weeks?

Fo' shizzle.

As others already pointed out, a cruise is far better for soothing the mind and soul (er... sorry to rip that line). You've got photos, awesome memories of exotic places, and an overall feeling of well-being.

I know I'd much rather have that over memories of vegging out on a couch stuffing my mouth full of doritos, my face dimly illuminated by the sickly glow of a TV screen.

[BlackPete]

What happens when HD-DVD wins the format war? What will you do then? ;)

He switches to UMD? ;)

[Savok]

Cruises have other people on them, therefore they are inferior to everything except sports events, which have even more people and sports on top of it.

[Dracula-X]

Cruises often have viral and bacterial outbreaks these days.

I'll take the couch & movie, thanks.

If you're a fan of Legionnaires' disease, more power to you. :)

[Hemalin]

So when's my Blu-Ray/HD-DVD combo player coming out?

[Schnoogs]

So when's my Blu-Ray/HD-DVD combo player coming out?

Soon...cant remember the brand but theres a combo coming out soon

[baz]

A standard decided upon by whom? The (elected) government? The (unelected) "industry standards committee"?

I prefer the standard to be decided by the consumer to either of those options. If you don't like the selection - don't buy. It's that simple. As many others have stated in the past BR/HDDVD threads, DVD is plenty good.

The use of the word "suffer" in this case I believe is a reach. Consumers aren't suffering from lack of either of these technologies. You could build a significantly better case for consumers suffering from the lack of HDTV standardization and proliferation than BR/HDDVD.

Put another way, if both formats failed and never saw the light of day - what percentage of consumers would "suffer" for lack of it?

I agree with what you are saying here 100%, but isn't that just what the EU is trying to achieve? Let the consumer choose the best tech, keeping movie exclusives out of it. The only way the best product will win is if you can get the same movies on both formats. Otherwise one has to be massively better than the other to overcome a users movie preference.

[Savok]

The EU is trying to achieve what it is always trying to achieve, control over something. They don't care what it is, it could be the colour of lint for all they care, it's a chance to pass some more laws and play God.