XB360 HD DVD To Be Cheapest On The Market

[FallenStar]

GameDaily Biz (http://biz.gamedaily.com/industry/feature/?id=13461) has an article on Microsoft releasing the cheapest HD DVD player for the 360.

With Toshiba's HD DVD players setting consumers back $400-500 or more and Blu-ray players costing as much as $1000, Microsoft has vowed that its Xbox 360 HD DVD add-on will be the cheapest hi-def movie player available when it ships later this year.

[rein]

File this under duh! It's an add-on. I would expect it to be cheaper than a full fledged HD-DVD player. Factor in the cost of the 360 and not so much.

[Deadend]

but if it's a USB add-on, how long would it take for it to be cracked?

[Freak705]

Call me an utter tard if you wish, but what resolution does HD-DVD play at? 720p? Right now, I couldn't care less about it, but maybe later this year or after I'll finally be upgrading TV's to a cheap/small LCD HDTV for my 360, because playing it on this:

http://media.pixpond.com/enm8tz.jpg

really isn't doing any justice to the 360's power :p And yes, that really is what I play it on. :(

[JazGalaxy]

Call me an utter tard if you wish, but what resolution does HD-DVD play at? 720p? Right now, I couldn't care less about it, but maybe later this year or after I'll finally be upgrading TV's to a cheap/small LCD HDTV for my 360, because playing it on this:

http://www.inventorysource.com/images/db/t_DB6413-TE.jpg

really isn't doing any justice to the 360's power :p

YOu know you can buy a VGA adaptor and play the 360 on the very computer screen you're using to type this, correct?

[Freak705]

Yeah, but no place around here seems to sell that, and my folks have serious issues about ordering stuff over the internet. They're exteeeemely paranoid about being duped over credit card number exchanges and stuff, so buying over the internet won't work. Besides, I'd rather save a little and buy a bigger TV than my monitor :)

Anyways, down the road, if this add-on wasn't too much, I would definitely consider buying it. That's one thing I appreciate Microsoft for doing. They didn't shove a format, that is quite limited right now, down my throat *cough Sony + BluRay cough*

[Deathbane27]

They're talking about the combined price of a 360 with the HD-DVD addon being cheaper, right? :p


but if it's a USB add-on, how long would it take for it to be cracked?

What do you mean? What would the point be?

[StarGypsy]

Just thought I would toss this out Freak incase you ever find the cables.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.asp?Submit=Suggested&Description=24-211

Its what I'm using for my 360. My wife ordered it for me so she could get the tv back.

[TrackZero]

What do you mean? What would the point be?

If it's cracked, you could use it on your PC instead is what he's saying.

[RMan]

Yea, not sure how it could be more deceitful, I know there are many MS fans here, but come on, this is absurd. We know the BR players will be $500 at the end of the year (if you can get one) and unless they’re giving the 360 away for free, the cost of the thing is the 360+add-on. By my math, if it’s at $200 it’ll be $100 more than the comparable PS3, not sure how that’s a value. Even the cheapest configuration would be $100 more than the mythical $400 HD-DVD player they mention. I think the Sony and MS crap-o-meter is now at the same level.

[SMES]

my folks have serious issues about ordering stuff over the internet. They're exteeeemely paranoid about being duped over credit card number exchanges and stuff, so buying over the internet won't work.

Nothing personal, but I'm glad I didn't have your 'Tard parents.

[Freak705]

I was looking at this as a TV to get maybe later this year:

http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?sku_id=0665000FS10064895&catid=23518&logon=&langid=EN#

Customer reviews seem to be pretty positive, and I'd love to see my 360 on a bigger screen in HD. I've heard that upscaling regular DVD's to HD can be less than satisfactory, so if MS released it at a reasonable price, but more importantly if there actually GOOD movies for the format (Hitch and Stealth? No thanks!), then it would be something worth looking forward to.

Of course, if a full boxset of the entire Star War saga came out, complete with deleted scenes from ANH, TESB and ROTJ, then I would automatically be sold :D I'm a Star Wars whore :)

Anyways, I like the stance that MS took because they didn't force HD-DVD on me. I don't have an HDTV, I don't think current games need anything more than the standard DVD-9's right now, and I'd rather not have the price of a console be driven up for a feature that doesn't need to be in there, aside from the fact that it will help push a new format onto consumers when it isn't needed. That's why I don't care the price of the expansion + the 360 might be more than the PS3. The people that want it can have it, and those that don't (which is the majority of consumers) can upgrade to it when they want. Hell, maybe if the PS3 followed a similar model, I might have passed on the 360 and gone for the PS3 instead.

[donkeydrop]

Call me an utter tard if you wish, but what resolution does HD-DVD play at? 720p? Right now, I couldn't care less about it, but maybe later this year or after I'll finally be upgrading TV's to a cheap/small LCD HDTV for my 360, because playing it on this:

http://media.pixpond.com/enm8tz.jpg

really isn't doing any justice to the 360's power :p And yes, that really is what I play it on. :(

HD-DVD can output up to 1080p resolution (and yes, PS3 haters to the contrary via component cables). Major Nelson just had a podcast with the MS HD-DVD guys about how this add on will work.

[Hemalin]

So when will we be seeing the Blu-Ray add-on for the 360?

[Freak705]

I actually listened to that podcast, but I just had it on in the background while I was playing something on the 360. It's the one where he addresses that the HD-DVD can have playbeck better than BluRay in some cases, isn't it? Anyhow, not to be a complete Sony basher, I think that the initial wave of any new product can have it's fair share of problems. Even the 360 was notorious for the red lights of death last November and afterwards, but I still bought one a few months later.

Anyhow, to get back on topic, is 1080p for HD-DVD a full 1080p signal, or is it just being upscaled from 720p?

[donkeydrop]

So when will we be seeing the Blu-Ray add-on for the 360?
MS has been working on Blu-ray in general in case it wins the format war, but their real interest is in pushing their own video compression format VC-1. So far neither side is biting and all the existing releases on both HD-DVD and Blu-ray use MPEG-2 or h.264. Since they pretty much know Sony isn't going to want to pay them license fees they're using this add-on to give HD-DVD a boost.

[donkeydrop]

I actually listened to that podcast, but I just had it on in the background while I was playing something on the 360. It's the one where he addresses that the HD-DVD can have playbeck better than BluRay in some cases, isn't it? Anyhow, not to be a complete Sony basher, I think that the initial wave of any new product can have it's fair share of problems. Even the 360 was notorious for the red lights of death last November and afterwards, but I still bought one a few months later.

Anyhow, to get back on topic, is 1080p for HD-DVD a full 1080p signal, or is it just being upscaled from 720p?

Actually it's one or two after the one you mentioned. It was people from the same group, but the ones actually working on the add-on.

It should be full 1080p; part of the HD-DVD standard requires it. Of course you have to have a TV that actually displays a real 1080p signal; some claim to but actually just do some software tricks on what is effectively a 1080i picture.

[Freak705]

Gotcha. I'm actually gonna go and download that podcast then. Thanks :p

[fahrvergnugen]

Not just VC-1, but they want their framework for programming menu systems and the like to be the winner in this war. Menus for bd-roms are done in Java, from my understanding, while hd-dvd menus can be written in .net.

Anyhow, to get back on topic, is 1080p for HD-DVD a full 1080p signal, or is it just being upscaled from 720p?

It's a full 1080p signal, downsampled to 1080i or 720p as needed. No HD-DVD player on the market right now can output 1080p, as far as I'm aware.

What will really make/break the 360's hd-dvd capabilities for me is whether or not the damn thing will load a movie in less than 2 minutes.

[Deadend]

So, if the drive will be $200 for the 360, does that mean the prices on the drives are inflated at this point?

Eh, whatever, I don't care about HD-standards as for the most part, the HD concept seems to be trying SO DAMN HARD to be DOA. From the poor selection of things to watch on HD, to the inflated prices for inflated pixel count, to the lack of selection.

I swear there is a higher variety in HD-TVs than things to watch on them.

[fahrvergnugen]

So, if the drive will be $200 for the 360, does that mean the prices on the drives are inflated at this point?

If anything, they're underpriced. The Toshibas seem to be 2.5Ghz P4's with a gig of RAM, 256MB of flash space, and red hat linux.

http://geekswithblogs.net/lorint/archive/2006/04/21/75795.aspx

[Xerxes]

$100 is the magic number, $299 is a slap in the face.

[Freak705]

$100 would be amazing, but I think ~$200 would be more realistic.

[Goronmon]

$100 would be amazing, but I think ~$200 would be more realistic.Agreed........

[saneman]

MS has been working on Blu-ray in general in case it wins the format war, but their real interest is in pushing their own video compression format VC-1. So far neither side is biting and all the existing releases on both HD-DVD and Blu-ray use MPEG-2 or h.264. Since they pretty much know Sony isn't going to want to pay them license fees they're using this add-on to give HD-DVD a boost.

Not that I pay too much attention to it all, but I was under the impression that (a figure greater than or equal to 1) HD-DVD releases used VC-1.

[BrokenSymmetry]

As far as I know, all current HD-DVD releases in the US use VC-1.

http://www.enterprisenetworksandservers.com/monthly/art.php?2173

[soco]

they all support identical video formats. MPEG2, H.264/MPEG-4 AVC, and VC-1. currently all blu-ray discs are using mpeg2 and all hd-dvd players are using vc-1, at least that's my understanding.

however, HD-DVD have some more hefty requirements of their players like requiring a network adapter and two decoders, so that they can display two streams at the same time.

the menus for HD-DVD don't have any real microsoft owned IP in them. it's just normal web technologies like javascript, html, smil, and css... that doesn't mean that folks won't be licensing some version of windows ce for IE and the devices though :D

at the moment, bluray discs still haven't been dual layer and thus have less space than most of the HD-DVD discs (25GB vs. 30GB). the dual tuners allow for nifty space saving things like streaming a PIP video and what not, but the addition space in blu-Ray could be used to get around that.

i wouldn't be surprised if MS and Toshiba team up and retail this for under 100$, or at least in a bundle, since both would be getting royalties for every disc sold. (MS for VC-1, and Toshiba for the format and production of HD-DVD)

defer to the great internet oracle, wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_DVD).

[atariv8]

What's cool about HD-DVD is that you can use the old DVD standard for authoring if you want. To author for Blu-Ray is a whole new ball of wax and it doesn't accept the old authoring standard. I guess ignorance would be best for me with these new formats so I wouldn't have to post a show and then also author the DVD...

I love having the choice to upgrade or not. The only reason I'd get one this year is if a game I wanted used the format. Otherwise I'll wait for BR and HD-DVD to hash it out. If BR wins, I'll buy the 360 BR add-on in a few years. Sony lost the Betamax/VHS wars with a higher quality product so history isn't on their side this time.

[absolut taco]

Call me an utter tard if you wish, but what resolution does HD-DVD play at? 720p? Right now, I couldn't care less about it, but maybe later this year or after I'll finally be upgrading TV's to a cheap/small LCD HDTV for my 360, because playing it on this:

http://media.pixpond.com/enm8tz.jpg

really isn't doing any justice to the 360's power :p And yes, that really is what I play it on. :(
That TV goes pretty well with the worthless digital camera you have. ;)

[Roc Ingersol]

USB HD-DVD drives will be hitting the street pretty close to the 360's drive anyway, and they won't be much more than $150 or so. I'm sure microsoft was planning on a $50 price cut this holiday season anyway. So they'll just eat 50 or 60 bucks on their first-party drive to keep 360 premium + HD-DVD cheaper than the PS3 tard pack.

I'd be surprised if MS's software update for HD-DVD support didn't imply Blu-Ray support. The drive's just coughing up a datastream over USB, and the video codecs are the same. There's really no reason the 360 couldn't support USB blu-ray the day those hit the market.

[saran_js]

It's already stated by MS, that all processing and whatever else that goes on in a HD-DVD player will be done on the xbox360 itself, so basically speaking, the add-on is just a basic HD-DVD drive possibly the same HD-DVD that goes in to Toshiba's laptops. So how much did they say they were going to charge this for ?

I suppose that MS would probably put in some lame ass hardware dongle that prevents this add-on from being plugged in to some PC or something.

[TyphoidMarty]

Call me an utter tard if you wish, but what resolution does HD-DVD play at? 720p? Right now, I couldn't care less about it, but maybe later this year or after I'll finally be upgrading TV's to a cheap/small LCD HDTV for my 360, because playing it on this:

http://media.pixpond.com/enm8tz.jpg

really isn't doing any justice to the 360's power :p And yes, that really is what I play it on. :(
Looks like a picture from Ghost Hunters. Look at the poltergeist evidence - striking!

[51|RandoM]

Call me an utter tard if you wish, but what resolution does HD-DVD play at? 720p?

HD-DVD is neither a codec, nor a decoder, nor an output device, it is a storage medium.

In other words, it doesn't determine the resolution, whatever is stored on the HD-DVD determines the resolution. Then, whatever your decoder and ultimate display device supports determines the resolution you actually see.

People need to get it through their heads that these new mediums are there to provide larger storage on a single disc, and to push DRM down the throats of consumers, not to magically enable us to suddenly receive HD content.

There is no reason you couldn't put HD content onto a DVD. You'd need a playback device that could decode and output the content, but given that, it'd work just fine. PC can do that today, and have been able to for ages.

[Mr.Condescension]

So, basically, the 360 HD-DVD add-on could be anywhere from $100-$400. Hmmm.... Sounds like we still don't have a clue what it's going to cost. I wouldn't be surprised if it's $300 so that core 360+HD-DVD = Premium PS3. That way they can not lose too much money, but still claim they're the same price as the PS3 in their marketing. Too bad it won't have HDMI in any case.

[Zanzibar]

Can any of these people add? Unless you get a Core X360 for $299 and an HD-DVD drive for $100, that's the only fuckin' way that it'll be the cheapest on the market. $200 means they'll STILL be paying $500, which doesn't save any money.

It better not be $200.

[Mr.Condescension]

Can any of these people add? Unless you get a Core X360 for $299 and an HD-DVD drive for $100, that's the only fuckin' way that it'll be the cheapest on the market. $200 means they'll STILL be paying $500, which doesn't save any money.

It better not be $200.

The thing is they never say that the 360 plus the HD-DVD add-on will be cheaper than anything in the podcast. They say the HD-DVD add-on will be cheaper than other HD-DVD players on the market. It seems pretty unlikely the 360 HD-DVD combo will be cheaper than $500.

[absolut taco]

The thing is they never say that the 360 plus the HD-DVD add-on will be cheaper than anything in the podcast. They say the HD-DVD add-on will be cheaper than other HD-DVD players on the market. It seems pretty unlikely the 360 HD-DVD combo will be cheaper than $500.
Perhaps there is a 360 price drop the same time the HD player launches.

[RMan]

Can any of these people add?
I think when you get as much money as MS you can afford a rose-colored calculator that adds only the numbers you want it to. I'm sure they'll be using that same calculator when they declare that the 360 has turned a profit.

[Freak705]

HD-DVD is neither a codec, nor a decoder, nor an output device, it is a storage medium.

In other words, it doesn't determine the resolution, whatever is stored on the HD-DVD determines the resolution. Then, whatever your decoder and ultimate display device supports determines the resolution you actually see.

People need to get it through their heads that these new mediums are there to provide larger storage on a single disc, and to push DRM down the throats of consumers, not to magically enable us to suddenly receive HD content.

There is no reason you couldn't put HD content onto a DVD. You'd need a playback device that could decode and output the content, but given that, it'd work just fine. PC can do that today, and have been able to for ages.Thanks, and I know I said treat me like an utter tard, but I'm not. It was a fair question, and Sony has been pushing 1080p on Bluray as much as Kaz Hirai said "RIIIIIIDGE RAAAACER!" at E3.

And since there's been a couple replies on my picture, it's a webcam that is many years old that I bought off of my friend for about $3. Plus it's dark down here in my basement. And I don't own a digital camera. *cough*

[saran_js]

Thanks, and I know I said treat me like an utter tard, but I'm not. It was a fair question, and Sony has been pushing 1080p on Bluray as much as Kaz Hirai said "RIIIIIIDGE RAAAACER!" at E3.

And since there's been a couple replies on my picture, it's a webcam that is many years old that I bought off of my friend for about $3. Plus it's dark down here in my basement. And I don't own a digital camera. *cough*

geez...do yourself a favour and get some light back in that room, and you can most definitely get a new webcam for almost nothing which gives a much better picture than what you currently hae.
:D