Wii Perfect Platform for Adventure Games?

[Kefkataran]

Via digg (http://www.digg.com): Adventure Gamers (http://www.adventuregamers.com) has a really interesting article up about why the Wii could help lead to a new golden age for adventure games. From the full article (http://www.adventuregamers.com/article/id,666/):

Imagine a detective game on the Nintendo Wii: you knock on a door by flicking the controller forwards. You navigate inside by controlling a pointer on the screen. It's dark, so you grab your flashlight from your inventory, moving the controller as if it were the flashlight. You find a drawer and open it by drawing the controller towards you. Inside are traces of blood. You dab it for a sample to take to the lab later. You explore some more and find a cabinet that appears to have a hidden compartment. You pick up a fire extinguisher from the hall and smash it onto the cabinet like a hammer, splintering the wood of the cabinet and gradually breaking it. All you are really doing in each of these examples, of course, is moving a piece of plastic up and down in the air.

I really love the idea of adventure games on the Wii. I just hope some developers are willing to take the risk and do something like this.

[Tricky Thumb]

Full Throttle II on the Wii!

I'd void my bowls most powerfully if that ever came to be.

[Spigot]

I'd never thought about this, but you're right. The Wii would be great for a revival in classic adventure gaming. It's sad that you can barely get one good adventure game a year now. Roberta Williams and the Lucasarts Adventure crew, where have you gone?

[Cupelix]

Seriously, I would kill for someone to do this. Gabriel Knight 4, please!

[Kamalot]

I would die for Full Throttle II, but being dead I wouldn't be able to play the game. :(

I've long loved Adventure games. Looking around though, I've realized they aren't gone, but they exist inside other games now. Zelda is very much an adventure game, but with a heavy action bent. A lot of the same mechanics at work in adventure games are there. Games like Dreamfall and Indigo Prophecy are very much modern representations of Adventure games. The DS has the Trace Memory game, which is old-school adventure gaming and is exceptionally good. The DS also has another adventure game coming too, Hotel Dusk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0I6FWRNvSXU) which is looking exceptional.

I'd love to see a revival of classic-like adventure games, or even a way to play Sam & Max Hit The Road on the Virtual Console.

[gzsfrk]

I have to think that a game along the lines of "Under a Killing Moon" (starring the affable Tex Murphy) would be perfect on the Wii.

And I likewise echo the original posters sentiment--let's hope that some ambitious developers are willing to take risks on games like like this in the next-gen. Surely the success of titles such as Phoenix Wright can only help to embolden them?

Speaking of which... I hope Phoenix finds his way into a quality innovative Wii title as well. I'd love the chance to play a gameplay-enhanced version of my favorite Japanese Matlock. :)

[RMan]

I just hope some developers are willing to take the risk and do something like this.
I think it'll happen, now that companies are pushing online distribution the products can reach a far larger number of people at a lower price. I think adventure games just make no sense in the retail market, the experience is just to short to validate the a large retail price. Interestingly, players may be more open to it since many games are shorter these days, and with the proper distribution you could get a nice audience for adventure games that is very similar to TV and movies (low price validated by huge overall market penetration). Adventure games are also perfect for episodic releases.

[Mike Jones]

Did you see how awkward Zelda was? Not happening. Everyone who played it said it was difficult nevermind all this other stuff.

[Deadend]

Indigo Prophecy

I have been saying since I saw the Wiimote that Indigo Prophecy was supposed to be a Wii game.

[Spigot]

Did you see how awkward Zelda was? Not happening. Everyone who played it said it was difficult nevermind all this other stuff.
We get it. You think the Wii is stupid and you hate the Wiimote as an interface. Do you have to post what is basically the same batch of anti-Nintendo vitriol on every Wii news story?

Besides which, you didn't really do a good job refuting the claims of the article. Gotta try harder next time!

[Zacharai]

I have to think that a game along the lines of "Under a Killing Moon" (starring the affable Tex Murphy) would be perfect on the Wii.
...
Speaking of which... I hope Phoenix finds his way into a quality innovative Wii title as well.
Under a Killing Moon or another Gabriel Knight would be perfect. And I second the Phoenix suggestion -- I'd own all the Japanese imports of the Phoenix Wright games if I could, you know, speak the language.

[Kefkataran]

Seriously, I would kill for someone to do this. Gabriel Knight 4, please!

Oh hell yes. YES. That would fulfill the Wii's need for adventure games and adult content AND my need for a new Gabriel Knight game all in one fell swoop.

Did you see how awkward Zelda was? Not happening. Everyone who played it said it was difficult nevermind all this other stuff.

??? I'd imagine it'd be MUCH easier to make an adventure game than an action-adventure game like Zelda. Don't be silly.

[AversionFX]

This could be awesome for just about everything.

Beating a person with a wrench. Baseball. Throwing hand grenades in shooters. etc.

[Spigot]

Under a Killing Moon or another Gabriel Knight would be perfect. And I second the Phoenix suggestion -- I'd own all the Japanese imports of the Phoenix Wright games if I could, you know, speak the language.
QFT!

Maybe these games, and the upcoming C&C 3, could finally signify a resurgence in that lost art of FMV in adventure games! Bring on the cheesy sets and bad acting, I tell ya!

[Mike Jones]

??? I'd imagine it'd be MUCH easier to make an adventure game than an action-adventure game like Zelda. Don't be silly.


Yes..this seems very easy to do in every room or area you encounter and have it all work easily ;) . Zelda would be far less complicated.

Imagine a detective game on the Nintendo Wii: you knock on a door by flicking the controller forwards. You navigate inside by controlling a pointer on the screen. It's dark, so you grab your flashlight from your inventory, moving the controller as if it were the flashlight. You find a drawer and open it by drawing the controller towards you. Inside are traces of blood. You dab it for a sample to take to the lab later. You explore some more and find a cabinet that appears to have a hidden compartment. You pick up a fire extinguisher from the hall and smash it onto the cabinet like a hammer, splintering the wood of the cabinet and gradually breaking it. All you are really doing in each of these examples, of course, is moving a piece of plastic up and down in the air.

[Spigot]

As opposed to just flicking a button or control stick on a controller.

ARG! Why am I letting myself get dragged into this?

Kef, you take over.

[Sl1pstream]

They should port those new Sam & Max games. They won't though.

[Kefkataran]

Yes..this seems very easy to do in every room or area you encounter and have it all work easily . Zelda would be far less complicated.

I seriously don't see how any of the stuff described here could possibly be that difficult to control considering it's an adventure game and you're not going to be moving around or dodging enemies or anything. Quit being stupid.

[solinari6]

Isn't that Wii black and white game Sadness pretty much an adventure game?

Aha, here's the trailor (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ol1uiBU5cgQ&search=nibris) ... looks pretty adventure-y to me!

[Tricky Thumb]

If you've ever had the decency to play an adventure game on the PC (DotT, Full Throttle and Indiana Jones:SfA!) you could realize it's just a matter of making the Wii controller a mouse.

Very, extremely, indefinately easy.

[Spigot]

If you've ever had the decency to play an adventure game on the PC (DotT, Full Throttle and Indiana Jones:SfA!) you could realize it's just a matter of making the Wii controller a mouse.

Very, extremely, indefinately easy.
Just ask Pantsmonkey for a demonstration! :)

[YoungAlCapone]

Adventure and Survival Horror are two genres, or one genre I guess, that could really come to life on the Wii.

[JazGalaxy]

Yes..this seems very easy to do in every room or area you encounter and have it all work easily ;) . Zelda would be far less complicated.

Imagine a detective game on the Nintendo Wii: you knock on a door by flicking the controller forwards. You navigate inside by controlling a pointer on the screen. It's dark, so you grab your flashlight from your inventory, moving the controller as if it were the flashlight. You find a drawer and open it by drawing the controller towards you. Inside are traces of blood. You dab it for a sample to take to the lab later. You explore some more and find a cabinet that appears to have a hidden compartment. You pick up a fire extinguisher from the hall and smash it onto the cabinet like a hammer, splintering the wood of the cabinet and gradually breaking it. All you are really doing in each of these examples, of course, is moving a piece of plastic up and down in the air.

I'm completely baffled by how some people have no imagination.

Knock on door> switch inventory to fist icon. A FPS style fist comes out. Move conroller towards screen. A knocking noise rings out.

Flashlight>Switch inventory to flashlight icon. A Doom style flashlight comes out. Move it around replacing mouse-look with your hand motions.

Fire extinguisher> switch to your hand icon. move in over an object you can pick up, and the fist relaxes into an open hand. Move your controller at the screen. The Fire extinguisher is picked up.

Smash the glass> Your hand icon in the inventory is now replaced with a fire extinguisher icon, or a "loaded" icon. You move the fire extinguisher over to the glass case and thrust your controller at the screen. The glass is broken.

All movement during this is done with the left hand golfball analog controller.

How is that even remotely hard to conceive?

As for the comment a bout how you could do all tha twith a controller... the problem with modern games is that people have lost sight of the concept that it's nto what you do, it's how you do it. That's why a lot of new style adventure games became boring once the computer solved all the problems for you with hotspots and accessory charachters who tell you the solutions to problems.

[bKangy]

I'm getting a little bored of Wii news now. I get it, the Wii is the best control system for everything ever and will satisfy all of my desires. Something else please?

[CapnBob]

I'm getting a little bored of Wii news now. I get it, the Wii is the best control system for everything ever and will satisfy all of my desires. Something else please?

Wii will make coffee metal. Wii will make everything metal. Blacker than the blackest black times infinity.

[blackzc]

Did you see how awkward Zelda was? Not happening. Everyone who played it said it was difficult nevermind all this other stuff.


Do you remember the switch from an atari joystick to the nes D pad?, it was pretty tough. I am worried about it to though.

[PacoTaco]

You know what NES games really need Wii versions? Deja Vu, Shadowgate and Maniac Mansion... hell yeah.

[blackzc]

I retract my previous statment. :o

[Kefkataran]

Way to minimalize it to nothing, what the fuck do you think you are doing when you play games now? UH pushing a plastic button

He was actually quoting the article with that paragraph.

[JazGalaxy]

The thing is... all the great adventure game ideas someone could come up with using the Wii controller could also be done using an FPS style mouse and keyboard or even a gamepad. Vampire The Masquerade and The Elder Scrolls have both had engines capable of doing the ultimate adventure game.

The problem with adventure games isn't the controller, it's the fact that people don't want adventure games. And on top of that... sadly... our little scenario would probably play far more like:

You walk up to a door. A window with the large white letters "KNOCK ON DOOR (SHAKE CONTROLLER) appears on screen. You knock and enter. It's dark. the window comes back. "EQUIP FLASHLIGHT! (Shake controller). You equip your flashlight and a big green arrow points at a cabinet in the corner. BREAK GLASS! says the window. (Shake controller).

Games treat gamers like they're idiots, and gamers will complain unless games treat them like they're idiots.

[Rafer]

Indigo Prophecy

I have been saying since I saw the Wiimote that Indigo Prophecy was supposed to be a Wii game.

I'd disagree with that, Indigo Prophecy worked well with two analog sticks. It got rid of that conventional "hunt the pixel" style from adventure games, and moving a character with an analog stick is a lot more imersive than pointing to a spot on screen and watching a character pathfind their way there.

[Kefkataran]

The problem with adventure games isn't the controller, it's the fact that people don't want adventure games.

I completely disagree. I think the problem is more that there aren't enough skilled developers interested in making GOOD adventure games right now. If a great adventure game comes out, there's still hype, and the sales are still there. It's just a matter of that happening. The Wii could potentially challenge developers to do that. Probably not, sadly, but still.

[thenefariousone]

Oh yes - the control system is so great, that people will only talk about the control system and not the games! It could be a game about opening doors, but "because it's on the wii it will be cool! Imagine all the different ways you can open doors, close doors, and lock doors! Oh the possibilities! :rolleyes: "

The article basically talks about using the controller as a 3d mouse, and ignores the real question - the elephant in the room - why did the adventure games genre die in the first place?

The genre has gone away on the pc as well, where a mouse performs most of functions the wii controll system provides.

There's more to the story than the controller.


I'm getting a little bored of Wii news now. I get it, the Wii is the best control system for everything ever and will satisfy all of my desires. Something else please?

[thenefariousone]

and I disagree with your...ahm...disageement...

Market forces are at work here. Developers make games based movies, pokemon games and "generic hunting" games because that's what sells and what customers want.

The "there aren't enough skilled developers" arguement works across the board. Great games properly hyped, generally get good sales.

No secret “wii” ingredient required.

I completely disagree. I think the problem is more that there aren't enough skilled developers interested in making GOOD adventure games right now. If a great adventure game comes out, there's still hype, and the sales are still there. It's just a matter of that happening. The Wii could potentially challenge developers to do that. Probably not, sadly, but still.

[Deadend]

I'd disagree with that, Indigo Prophecy worked well with two analog sticks. It got rid of that conventional "hunt the pixel" style from adventure games, and moving a character with an analog stick is a lot more imersive than pointing to a spot on screen and watching a character pathfind their way there.

Use analog stick for movement of character. Wiimote functions for interactions as opposed to the 2nd analog stick.

[Metal]

Wii owners better hope so. It's going to suck for sports (outside of Nintendo's simplified versions) and fighting games.

[JazGalaxy]

Oh yes - the control system is so great, that people will only talk about the control system and not the games! It could be a game about opening doors, but "because it's on the wii it will be cool! Imagine all the different ways you can open doors, close doors, and lock doors! Oh the possibilities! :rolleyes: "

The article basically talks about using the controller as a 3d mouse, and ignores the real question - the elephant in the room - why did the adventure games genre die in the first place?

The genre has gone away on the pc as well, where a mouse performs most of functions the wii controll system provides.

There's more to the story than the controller.

I also don't understand how people don't get that interface is everything. I got a steering wheel for Forza on Xbox and the amount of enjoyment I had with that game increased by leaps and bounds even when, while playing with the wheel, I lost more frequently.

Ever play Dance Dance Revolution with a controller? Is it any fun?

Also... I think peopel give analot sticks way too much credit. In my opinion they're responsible for part of the downturn gaming has experianced in my opinion, with the focus being shifted from challenge to "experiance". They're simply not very precise and rely on you playing a genre they excell at to even function. (FPS, Racing, etc.)

[Roc Ingersol]

I completely disagree. I think the problem is more that there aren't enough skilled developers interested in making GOOD adventure games right now.
probably because the vast majority of adventure games sucked it.

[Doctor Setebos]

I also don't understand how people don't get that interface is everything. I got a steering wheel for Forza on Xbox and the amount of enjoyment I had with that game increased by leaps and bounds even when, while playing with the wheel, I lost more frequently.

Ever play Dance Dance Revolution with a controller? Is it any fun?

Also... I think peopel give analot sticks way too much credit. In my opinion they're responsible for part of the downturn gaming has experianced in my opinion, with the focus being shifted from challenge to "experiance". They're simply not very precise and rely on you playing a genre they excell at to even function. (FPS, Racing, etc.)QFT. I've got Donkey Konga and the game can be played with a regular GameCube controller. Before I obtained an extra set of bongos, someone would have to use the controller while playing two-player sets, and it just wasn't any fun. Sometimes, the interface is what makes an experience more entertaining.

[Roc Ingersol]

Wii owners better hope so. It's going to suck for sports (outside of Nintendo's simplified versions) and fighting games.
It would be pretty amusing to see all these esoteric games supported out of the box, while sports and fighting games are sending people back to the store for a dedicated peripheral.

[Roc Ingersol]

Sometimes, the interface is what makes an experience more entertaining.

And sometimes ... it's Gyromite.

[thecrazyd]

probably because the vast majority of adventure games sucked it.
The vast majority of every genre of games sucks.

[Talltale]

From what I hear of the game Sadness, it'll be a lot like this.

[Kefkataran]

Market forces are at work here. Developers make games based movies, pokemon games and "generic hunting" games because that's what sells and what customers want.

The "there aren't enough skilled developers" arguement works across the board. Great games properly hyped, generally get good sales.

And that's all I'm saying: a great adventure game, properly hyped, will get good sales. They aren't almost extinct because people don't want them no matter what -- it's because there aren't a lot of good developers working on good adventure games. It's why stuff like Indigo Prophecy and Dreamfall DO get hype (and fairly good sales). Adventure games, done right, still sell.

probably because the vast majority of adventure games sucked it.

Yup, although I think the same can be said of FPSes and RTSes and fighting games and platformers and sports games and so on.

[Xenkylm]

It would be pretty amusing to see all these esoteric games supported out of the box, while sports and fighting games are sending people back to the store for a dedicated peripheral.

Everyone forgets that if you turn the controller on its side, it's basically a normal two-button controller. I'd say that two buttons can't work in a fighting game, but i've played smash brothers so I'd have to disagree with myself.

[gzsfrk]

The thing is... all the great adventure game ideas someone could come up with using the Wii controller could also be done using an FPS style mouse and keyboard or even a gamepad.

This make absolutely no sense to me. You can also play a tennis game or a sword-fighting game using M/K or gamepad, but for some odd reason, Wii is pushing the option to do it with their Wiimote, and people seem excited about it. Wonder why that is? Maybe because it's something DIFFERENT with the potential to draw you more deeply into the game.

Here's something fun you can try: while going down the freeway sometime, sit really close to the windshield and then start pumping your arms back and forth really fast while simultaneously bouncing your feet on the floorboard as though you were running. Isn't that cool? Almost feels like you're running incredibly fast, doesn't it? Physical interaction CAN help to break down the barrier between the game and the player, thus contributing to the suspension of disbelief. Of course, that's not necessary in all games, but it can be quite effective in some.

The problem with adventure games isn't the controller, it's the fact that people don't want adventure games.

That's a broad, over-generalized statement. Lots of people would still gladly purchase adventure games. However, it IS a narrower audience than, say, the FPS, RTS, or RPG crowd. And there's (unfortunately) currently a mindset amongst the major players in the videogames industry that says "If a title doesn't have a good shot at becoming a blockbuster, what's the point in producing, marketing, manufacturing, and distributing it?" You can't tell me that LucasArts wouldn't have made a very tidy profit off of Full Throttle II, Sam and Max: Freelance Police, or a sequel to Day of the Tentacle. However, they could probably make as much or MORE money by investing that same amount of time and effort into the next generic Star Wars piece of crap, and it would be a lower risk.

There's a lack of good adventure games being released, not because demand for them dried up, but because videogames became a serious business. And in serious business, you ALWAYS end up seeing the gravitation towards lower risk, higher return... an area where adventure games, unfortunately, do not reside.

And on top of that... sadly... our little scenario would probably play far more like:

You walk up to a door. A window with the large white letters "KNOCK ON DOOR (SHAKE CONTROLLER) appears on screen. You knock and enter. It's dark. the window comes back. "EQUIP FLASHLIGHT! (Shake controller). You equip your flashlight and a big green arrow points at a cabinet in the corner. BREAK GLASS! says the window. (Shake controller).

You really have to use a little more imagination, as I likewise hope the developers will. True, you could just shake the controller to knock on the door. But what about a scene where a detective is investigating a murder and needs to get into a secret club in order to continue his investigation? He could hide in a corner in the alley and listen for a secret knock that you have to match in order to gain access. That's just one example--imagine if the Wiimote has a microphone in it--you might have to find a password to speak to the doorman as well. The possibilities are limitless.

Yes, you can do all that with a conventional gamepad and headset. But the potential for immersion is, I think, much greater when intuitive movement and even speech is introduced as a control scheme. And given what we've seen, I don't think any of that is outside the scope of what the Wii/mote will be capable of.

Games treat gamers like they're idiots, and gamers will complain unless games treat them like they're idiots.

Sorry... I didn't understand this in the least.

[Xenkylm]

Here's something fun you can try: while going down the freeway sometime, sit really close to the windshield and then start pumping your arms back and forth really fast while simultaneously bouncing your feet on the floorboard as though you were running.

so that was YOU I saw the other day?

[RMan]

Wii owners better hope so. It's going to suck for sports (outside of Nintendo's simplified versions) and fighting games.
Although I can understand the controller not working for traditional side-view fighting games (not a big loss), I see no reason why the controller wouldn't be supperior for many sports games (actually, I can't think of one that wouldn't be better). Take a shot at explaining WHY it won't be better for sports titles, just because Nintendo's first party sports titles are designed to be simple (it's not like they're going to try to compete with EA in that regard) doesn't mean all sports games using it have to be simple.

[Spigot]

I'm completely baffled by how some people have no imagination. <snip> How is that even remotely hard to conceive?
That is probably the best write-up about how the Wii could be used to add an entire level of interactivity into a now-stale genre.

As for the comment a bout how you could do all tha twith a controller... the problem with modern games is that people have lost sight of the concept that it's nto what you do, it's how you do it. That's why a lot of new style adventure games became boring once the computer solved all the problems for you with hotspots and accessory charachters who tell you the solutions to problems.
Oh, my comment about doing it with a controller wasn't meant to say that we should use a standard controller to play such a game. It was meant to illustrate the silliness of Mike's last statement, "All you are really doing in each of these examples, of course, is moving a piece of plastic up and down in the air."

As though moving the Wiimote around to perform these actions was somehow less mystical than flicking some sticks and pushing a button or three. I'm with you on this one, Mr. Jazzy G.

[Steele Johnson]

I have to agree. The Wii seems like it will open up a lot of creative possibilities when it comes to puzzle solving adventure games.

[Spigot]

Want to know what killed the Adventure genre? Myst.

More to the point, Myst clones. Myst came out and sold like hotcakes. Everyone and their dog had a copy.

So traditional point & click adventures became the slideshow variety that plagued the genre for most of the late 90's and early 2000's. Thankfully there have been a few non-Myst clones to come out, like Dreamfall, Syberia and... um... FarCry, but other than those few intrepid Sierra/Lucasarts-style games, most of the adventure genre is still wallowing in mediocre slideshow style pieces of drek.

It's interesting to note that there are still a lot of traditional adventure games being made and marketed in Europe and elsewhere. It's the North American market and developers that seem to have shied away from the genre as a whole. There was also a big push to get away from 2D adventure games and move into 3D which really didn't help things.

It does seem like there's a bit of an upswing of late, especially with Sam & Max on the way. Hopefully this, coupled with a lot of the general boredom with the regurgitated sequels of sequels amongst the gaming community will help spark a new interest in story driven adventure games and we'll see at least 2-3 of them a year instead of the 1 that tends to make it. Heck, the popularity of Phoenix Wright should be seen as a great sign, especially when the sequel (and hopefully Wii-related spin-offs) hits NA shores.

[thecrazyd]

FarCry is so an adventure game!

[Draft]

Shit article. If there is going to be an adventure game revival, it will be on the PC, you know, the system adventure game fans own. Like Lucasarts is all the sudden going to say, "you know, Full Throttle 2 just didn't make sense until... wagglewand!

[shnastybiznastic]

Shit article. If there is going to be an adventure game revival, it will be on the PC, you know, the system adventure game fans own. Like Lucasarts is all the sudden going to say, "you know, Full Throttle 2 just didn't make sense until... wagglewand!
Uhh, Adventure game fans't don't give a shit about PC gaming ever since it became online-multiplayer centric. If anything, putting games out for the lowest priced console with the most entrenched archetecture makes them more likely to develop for the Wii than the PC.

[Draft]

Uhh, Adventure game fans't don't give a shit about PC gaming ever since it became online-multiplayer centric. If anything, putting games out for the lowest priced console with the most entrenched archetecture makes them more likely to develop for the Wii than the PC.Then I guess the PS2 will host our theoretical adventure game revival?

[Skyelan]

Been reading a long time, and I guess this is a good a time as any to join in.. :o

Shit article. If there is going to be an adventure game revival, it will be on the PC, you know, the system adventure game fans own. Like Lucasarts is all the sudden going to say, "you know, Full Throttle 2 just didn't make sense until... wagglewand!

Which is why the DS has had one hugely popular (Pheonix Wright) adventure game, one lesser known but still popular (Another Code/Trace Memories) one, and 4 really good looking adventure games (Justice for All, Hotel Dusk, Touch Detective, and that one Hacker one) coming out in just a few months, right? Why adventure games have gotten a shot in the arm on the DS, right? Right?

Wii owners better hope so. It's going to suck for sports (outside of Nintendo's simplified versions) and fighting games.

Someone else already covered sports, but I'm gonna take a stab at fighting.

I can clear this up real quick: Preconceptions. We've yet to get a good example, so we're going to doubt. Who, before E3, thought Platformers would work on the Wii? Mario Galaxy was proclaimed by most to be the game of the show. Who thought sports games would work? Nintendo's WiiSports may be simple, but all someone like EA has to do is take the same controls and add depth, and BLAM: Sports game better than using buttons.

Hell, beyond FPS and to a lesser extent, racing, I can't remember any genres AT ALL that people actually thought would translate well. And I can totally understand why. It's trying to conform traditional examples to an un-traditional controller. They don't mesh. Anything made for it needs to be from the ground up.

This has happened plenty. I remember how many people thought 3D fighters would be lame, because they were applying the concepts of a 2D fighter. Now we have the likes of Virtua Fighter and Soul Calibur which are heavily praised. I'm sure most people thought the control stick would be crap for genres. How could a platformer work with this, how could a fighter work with this, what could it possible do for action games? And yet now it's everywhere.

While I can't say for sure that the controller WILL work for fighters, I think somewhere along the line, someone will make a brand new fighting franchise and concept designed entirely around the controller. DBZ, as much as I hate the DBZ franchise, seems like it's got the right idea. Exaggurated motions for silly super powerful moves. Sounds like fun, I think. But only time will tell.

[Draft]

Phoenix Wright is hugely popular the same way Ico was hugely popular, or Castlevania: SOTN was hugely popular- critically acclaimed, nothing spectacular sales wise. By your own estimation, the system will have about 6 adventure games within the next 6 months or so. So 6 in about 2 years. I think even the anemic PC game adventure market beats that output.

This article is nothing more than wishful thinking. The guy's pretty much saying, "like, the controller's weird, but it'd probably be pretty cool to play adventure games with!"

Could the Wii become the new bastion of adventure gaming? Sure. And the Xbox 360 could become the best thing to happen to 2D fighters since the Hadouken, and the PS3 could revitalize the turn based war game genre.

[Vagabondllama]

What really gets me with some people is that, instead of asking, "How can the Wii play this game/genre?", they ask, "How can the Wii play this game/genre using existing control schemes ?"

With a new system of controlling ,we should be moving into new ways of playing games; not converting traditional control schemes to a new controller.

[shnastybiznastic]

Phoenix Wright is hugely popular the same way Ico was hugely popular, or Castlevania: SOTN was hugely popular- critically acclaimed, nothing spectacular sales wise.
Oh for fucks sake, what do you want? Bestsellers or critically acclaimed? Give your opponents some frame of reference.

[Draft]

Oh for fucks sake, what do you want? Bestsellers or critically acclaimed? Give your opponents some frame of reference.ummm, what? I think my point was pretty clear- Phoenix Wright has many good reviews and is a message board favorite, but it never set the sales charts on fire, therefore I don't think it's a good example of a game that's going to set the development world on fire in a mad race to copy its success.

[thecrazyd]

ummm, what? I think my point was pretty clear- Phoenix Wright has many good reviews and is a message board favorite, but it never set the sales charts on fire, therefore I don't think it's a good example of a game that's going to set the development world on fire in a mad race to copy its success.
I am sure it did quite well for the development cost. Also note that part of the reason it didn't set the charts a flame is because they didn't make enough copies to meet the demand.

[Draft]

I am sure it did quite well for the development cost. Also note that part of the reason it didn't set the charts a flame is because they didn't make enough copies to meet the demand.I would imagine it did do well vs. dev costs. Probably did better on cell phones, considering there are 4 Phoenix Wright cell phone games versus 1 on the DS. So maybe cell phones are the perfect platform for adventure games?

[Skyelan]

ummm, what? I think my point was pretty clear- Phoenix Wright has many good reviews and is a message board favorite, but it never set the sales charts on fire, therefore I don't think it's a good example of a game that's going to set the development world on fire in a mad race to copy its success.

I'm sorry, what? It's certainly no Madden or GTA, but few games, even the extremely popular ones, 'set the charts on fire'. Pheonix DID, however, have very good sales. Good enough to have Capcom make another remake, good enough that Capcom was blown away at just how popular it was.

A revitilization is not selling to everyone, a revitilization is bringing a genre back into the limelight, and sparking interest in it from other groups.

DS is getting four really good looking (three of them have rep to back it up, either from franchise or company, and the other just looks like a cool concept), unique-from-one-another in the next few months. That's more than the PC gets in a year. Probably two years even. When was the last time you heard of a PC adventure game getting as much universal scores and hype as the Pheonix series?

I never said it was a revival, though. I just said that you're wrong that the PC would be where it happens. Current events say otherwise.

And you're simplifying the whole reason WHY Adventure games can get a huge kick in the pants from the Wii. 'Weird control scheme' isn't even considering how it adds immensely to the immersion of games that revolve around exploration. It's still only one part. There's also absurdly cheap development costs, meaning there's less risk on trying to make an adventure game. And digital distribution of games mean even cheaper development costs, and cheaper costs transferred to gamers, which means far more gamers are willing to take chances.

The DS is getting a lot of adventure games because of the control scheme. Two screens and mic input only make for more ideas that developers can imploment, as seen in Another Code. If development costs on the Wii are even CHEAPER, and the controller does lend itself to the genre, you bet your ass it'll see em, even if it's not a 'revitilization'.

Your counterpoints about other systems are inane, because unlike the Adventure/Wii comparison, those systems have nothing unique they can lend to the genre mentioned.

There's no reason whatsoever to believe the PC will spark a revitilization. That seems to be the main point.

And whoever told you about cellphones lied. It was originally a cult hit with three titles on the GBA in Japan, the fourth in the series coming out for the DS, but not as popular as it is now. DS is what sparked it's popularity.

Edit: Okay, my mistake, I guess all three GBA ones have been cell phone ported. However, I've yet to hear any popularity reports from them. The fourth one isn't likely to get brought over to cells, because it's ENTIRELY like the brand new fourth cases in Ace Attourney and Justice for All (and likely the third game when it comes here) where it utilizes the DS fully, rather than just touch screen control. Thus, it would be impossible.

[thecrazyd]

I would imagine it did do well vs. dev costs. Probably did better on cell phones, considering there are 4 Phoenix Wright cell phone games versus 1 on the DS. So maybe cell phones are the perfect platform for adventure games?
Those are ports of the previous GBA releases and are not localized here. I don't have numbers to back it up, but I would assume that the worldwide DS release beat the local Japan cell phone release. Also, how can you not see that the DS, or the Wii for that matter, does not have a more appropriate interface for Adventures? I am not saying it is gonna happen, but it would work out real well if it did.

[Draft]

You do a pretty good job of making the DS seem like a decent platform for adventure games. Not so much the Wii though >.>

btw Phoenix Wright sold 300 copies in the US in June, and the "greatest hit" re-release in Japan sold 30,000 copies, which like I said is decent, but not exactly earth shattering in the land of DS domination.

btw 2 like I said the article pretty much says, "new controller could maybe lead to a revitilization of the adventure genre. It could. maybe!!!" Doesn't offer any sort of arguement except that the wiimote is kind of like a mouse so that makes sense, right?!?!?

btw 3 Farenheit and The Longest Journey both got pretty hyped!

[thecrazyd]

The Wii has a point and click interface. How could that be bad for point and click adventure games?

[Skyelan]

You do a pretty good job of making the DS seem like a decent platform for adventure games. Not so much the Wii though >.>

btw Phoenix Wright sold 300 copies in the US in June, and the "greatest hit" re-release in Japan sold 30,000 copies, which like I said is decent, but not exactly earth shattering in the land of DS domination.

btw 2 like I said the article pretty much says, "new controller could maybe lead to a revitilization of the adventure genre. It could. maybe!!!" Doesn't offer any sort of arguement except that the wiimote is kind of like a mouse so that makes sense, right?!?!?

btw 3 Farenheit and The Longest Journey both got pretty hyped!

Not only the point and click comparison, but did you not see how it EXPRESSLY OUTLINED how you would be using items like they were actually in your hand? How is that not a good argument? How is it that actually picking up and using that can of spray paint on that rabid killer poodle is not a huge improvement over clicking the spray paint, clicking the poodle, etc?

For the record, I loved Fareinheit/Indigo Prophecy. ...Until the last stretch. I've never had so much buzz killing bullshit shovelled into my face in all my years of gaming. And I play contrived, pretentious J-RPGs all the time. Reviewers and gamers who played it all the way through instead of playing the first big chunk then reviewing it (Not a bash, common practice, and expected, I don't think anyone thought it could take such a sudden nose dive) seem to share that view.

Fareinheit isn't a good example of a great, refreshing adventure game, because even the best games are ruined by tripping up the ending with dues-ex machina, half hearted Matrix rip fights, and the single most forced, nonsensical romance ever to grace a game shoved in for good measure.

[destoo]

Not only the point and click comparison, but did you not see how it EXPRESSLY OUTLINED how you would be using items like they were actually in your hand? How is that not a good argument? How is it that actually picking up and using that can of spray paint on that rabid killer poodle is not a huge improvement over clicking the spray paint, clicking the poodle, etc?

I don't think it's a good improvement. Now not only will you need to find the can, poodle, and figure out you need to spraypaint.. but it'll fail if you're not spraying it with the right pattern or angle.

Ever played Woodruff and the Schnibble of Azimuth? Imaging having to learn to SAY the runes in addition to memorizing them (or even writing them down)

I'm not saying it's not interesting, but it looks like a whole new level of complexity that's being just tacked on adventure games. Similar to what someone else said earlier, let's wait and see how devs implement it in their games, and not debate about "how am I going to do that shoryuken with a wand.."

[Xenkylm]

let's wait and see how devs implement it in their games, and not debate about "how am I going to do that shoryuken with a wand.."

I agree, why waste time thinking when we can be waiting?

I dunno. A lot of the arguments against WiiAdventures (tm) sound like either a) Wii bashing for the hell of it (it's good sport, but moderation please), b) lack of imagination (can you seriously not see how this could possibly be done in a fun way), or c) just a general lack of trust in developers and game-testing ("my arm will get tired!").

Honestly, this is more a thread about how great it'd be to see adventure games become popular again. If they're done well, they're a lot of fun, and given the recent surges in episodic content, it's not really that far-fetched. Is the Wii the _only_ system that can pull this off? Clearly not. Can you do some fun stuff using it that you couldn't with a mouse or analog stick (all pantsmonkey posts aside)? Probably.

That's kinda it. Also, personally, I don't see how switching from button-combinations to literal movements makes things MORE complicated. Maybe more complicated to program, but thats why we pay for games, right?

***edit***
Destoo, that wasn't really supposed to be directed at you in particular, in case I hurt your feelings.

[thenefariousone]

The Wii has a point and click interface. How could that be bad for point and click adventure games?

It's not bad - but it's not a big deal considering how many point and click adventure games have been released on pcs.

Control scheme alone wasn't the only reason the genre has dried up.


I never said it was a revival, though. I just said that you're wrong that the PC would be where it happens. Current events say otherwise.

And you're simplifying the whole reason WHY Adventure games can get a huge kick in the pants from the Wii. 'Weird control scheme' isn't even considering how it adds immensely to the immersion of games that revolve around exploration. It's still only one part. There's also absurdly cheap development costs, meaning there's less risk on trying to make an adventure game. And digital distribution of games mean even cheaper development costs, and cheaper costs transferred to gamers, which means far more gamers are willing to take chances.

The DS is getting a lot of adventure games because of the control scheme. Two screens and mic input only make for more ideas that developers can implement, as seen in Another Code. If development costs on the Wii are even CHEAPER, and the controller does lend itself to the genre, you bet your ass it'll see em, even if it's not a 'revitilization'.

Your counterpoints about other systems are inane, because unlike the Adventure/Wii comparison, those systems have nothing unique they can lend to the genre mentioned.

There's no reason whatsoever to believe the PC will spark a revitalization. That seems to be the main point.



Actually Skyelan, your comparison is the one that's quite flawed.

Other console systems have mic input, and provide ways for cheap low cost development. Furthermore - there's nothing that either Nintendo or Sony are promising in terms of online distribution that Microsoft isn't already doing:

-Geometry Wars and Clone & Clyde on live arcade are examples of revitalizing old genres.
-Street Fighter 2 on live is a revitalizing of the 2d fighting genre.
-"Achievements" has made getting a high score in a game meaningful again.

The wii console provides unique opportunities for control, however with the superior processing power of the other two consoles, they could arguably create unique gameplay situations that the wii cannot.

The ps3 and xbox360 have enough power to conceivably do a really good voice activated adventure game for example. The idea being, instead of picking from a bunch of options to converse with a character, you say what you want, and the game responds in kind.

Don't get too caught up in the controller or drink too much of the Nintendo coolaid. Sony's done their fair share of over hyping too.



What really gets me with some people is that, instead of asking, "How can the Wii play this game/genre?", they ask, "How can the Wii play this game/genre using existing control schemes ?"

With a new system of controlling ,we should be moving into new ways of playing games; not converting traditional control schemes to a new controller.

Agreed.



I also don't understand how people don't get that interface is everything. I got a steering wheel for Forza on Xbox and the amount of enjoyment I had with that game increased by leaps and bounds even when, while playing with the wheel, I lost more frequently.

Ever play Dance Dance Revolution with a controller? Is it any fun?

Also... I think peopel give analot sticks way too much credit. In my opinion they're responsible for part of the downturn gaming has experianced in my opinion, with the focus being shifted from challenge to "experiance". They're simply not very precise and rely on you playing a genre they excell at to even function. (FPS, Racing, etc.)

Custom hardware (steering wheel/ddr pad/flight stick) is always better at a specific task than hardware made for multiple uses (gamepad/keyboard/ mouse). Just like graphics, custom controllers can make a good game better, but they can't make a bad game good.

Interface is not everything. A steering wheel won't make a racing game with bad collision detection physics or cheating AI fun. An FPS with dumb AI and terrible level design isn't fun - even if you jack into the matrix to control it.

[thenefariousone]

Although I can understand the controller not working for traditional side-view fighting games (not a big loss), I see no reason why the controller wouldn't be supperior for many sports games (actually, I can't think of one that wouldn't be better). Take a shot at explaining WHY it won't be better for sports titles, just because Nintendo's first party sports titles are designed to be simple (it's not like they're going to try to compete with EA in that regard) doesn't mean all sports games using it have to be simple.

Then perhaps you should try a little harder. In a thirty second span I came up with the following:

1)Boxing - isn't better with the wii, unless you think boxing with only one hand is fun. two wii controllers = two hands, but no movement of body or feet.

2)Hockey isn't any better.
3)Basketball isn't any better.
4)Soccer - ditto.
5)Badminton/tennis games? got me there.
6)Volleyball - nope.
7)Golf? Sure. Naturally, it's one of the few sports where you don't move and perform a task at the same time. Just like...
8)Baseball :)
9)Curling :)
10)Football - in certain situations yes, in others no.

Most sports really aren't as simple as they appear, and the wii doesn't simulate a person's complete body - only an arm+legs.

Most sports require two arms + two legs + upper/lower body controll to do anything useful. A regular controller works just as well if not better than the wii controller/nunchuk in the aforementioned examples, because it doesn't even pretend to be these things.

It's similar to having stylized graphics versus realistic graphics. The former provides much more room for error than the later.

[Xenkylm]

Then perhaps you should try a little harder. In a thirty second span I came up with the following:

1)Boxing - isn't better with the wii, unless you think boxing with only one hand is fun. two wii controllers = two hands, but no movement of body or feet.

2)Hockey isn't any better.
3)Basketball isn't any better.
4)Soccer - ditto.
5)Badminton/tennis games? got me there.
6)Volleyball - nope.
7)Golf? Sure. Naturally, it's one of the few sports where you don't move and perform a task at the same time. Just like...
8)Baseball :)
9)Curling :)
10)Football - in certain situations yes, in others no.

Most sports really aren't as simple as they appear, and the wii doesn't simulate a person's complete body - only an arm+legs.

Most sports require two arms + two legs + upper/lower body controll to do anything useful. A regular controller works just as well if not better than the wii controller/nunchuk in the aforementioned examples, because it doesn't even pretend to be these things.

It's similar to having stylized graphics versus realistic graphics. The former provides much more room for error than the later.

You have to hold two hockey sticks? You need your arms in soccer? And since when has any basketball game separated buttons for your left and right arms? You're right about the two hands/no legs thing, except that the nunchuck also has an analog stick (though you can still argue that you can't control each leg separately...)

Just because you can't imagine how they could turn the Wii controller into an exact analog of the actual game doesn't mean it wouldn't add anything to the experience. Put another way: imagine the game controls almost exactly the same way as other games (there are several buttons on the controller, which everyone always forgets), PLUS certain actions are handled by motions. If it's not your cup of tea, that's fine, but I can't imagine it'd be that hard to use that controller for a reasonable sports-game setup.

[Rook34]

I haven't read the whole thread yet, but I have to say a new Snatcher would blow the tits off a whore.

[Midda]

1)Boxing - isn't better with the wii, unless you think boxing with only one hand is fun. two wii controllers = two hands, but no movement of body or feet.

You know that both parts of the control have motion sensors, right?

[RMan]

1)Boxing - isn't better with the wii, unless you think boxing with only one hand is fun. two wii controllers = two hands, but no movement of body or feet.
Wow. Umm, go to an arcade sometime, most boxing games feature no movement and are all about the punching mechanics (of course, movement could still be done with the control pad on either controller).
2)Hockey isn't any better.
3)Basketball isn't any better.
4)Soccer - ditto.

All of which can use the left hand for movement and the wand for passing direction, like a mouse. I can see very easily how any of these could be better, and that’s not considering doing slowmo for Wii specific shot mechanics.
6)Volleyball - nope.
Movement with left, serves and returns with wand. Seriously, you are not even thinking about these, you spent 30 seconds imagining how a game could be done incorrectly, a developer (one worth anything) does not do that. Also, I'd love to hear how, in your opinion, Volleyball is significantly different than tennis.
10)Football - in certain situations yes, in others no.
Likely the only reason you gave this one marks above others is because a Wii football game has been announced.
Most sports really aren't as simple as they appear, and the wii doesn't simulate a person's complete body - only an arm+legs.
Which is still one arm or leg beyond a traditional controller.
A regular controller works just as well if not better than the wii controller/nunchuk in the aforementioned examples, because it doesn't even pretend to be these things.
Interesting, so the traditional controller is better for these games because it DOESN’T try to emulate better control? You should think about that a bit more, because it makes no sense.
It's similar to having stylized graphics versus realistic graphics. The former provides much more room for error than the later.
Hehe, that’s a big stretch. I suppose by your logic we should go back to the Atari joystick, or is that not simple enough for you?

[Rook34]

"..Brutally 'pooned!" - Kenny Blankenship, MXC

(In response to RMan's raping he gave to thenefariousone)

[Xenkylm]

Just to help clarify
http://www.fotothing.com/photos/2f1/2f109d4a305548984e9fa9ae716411b0.jpg

[RMan]

(In response to RMan's raping he gave to thenefariousone)
Hehe, thanks, he did make it a bit easy though.
Just to help clarify
That’s classic!
I just realized, with the boxing example I’d always thought that the dual wand setup would be best, but it occurs to me that using the wand for body mechanics would likely be more fun. The wand can be used to basically move the torso, allowing subtle or not so subtle turning, ducking, dodging, etc. (this is from a 3rd person through the back view, like punch out). Just like the picture supplied, the buttons can be used to punch, and how long the button is pressed would control the power when released. Allowing you to actually control body positioning and use the fighter movement to generate power punches or roll with punches would definitely make for a wicked cool experience (also couple that with an adrenaline bar for slowing time).

[Roc Ingersol]

The vast majority of every genre of games sucks.
Let me rephrase:
Adventure games tend to come in two flavors: good, and mind-numbing.

Even some of the games being held up as great in this thread are questionable.

I mean, Gabriel Knight? Are you guys just ignoring Gabriel Knight 3 or did you honestly suffer that interminable backwards logic and then convince yourself it was fun?


Oh, and turning the wiimote on its side does not obviate the questions about how well it can play sports and fighters out of the box. The control scheme for Double Dragon or Super TecmoBowl just won't cut it today.

[Kefkataran]

I mean, Gabriel Knight? Are you guys just ignoring Gabriel Knight 3 or did you honestly suffer that interminable backwards logic and then convince yourself it was fun?

Gabriel 3 was easily the worst of the series, but I still think it was a pretty solid game overall. Great for adventure genre fans, probably less so for people who only play the best of the genre. But I think the idea that adventure games are either "good" or "mind-numbing" can still be applied, as crazyd and I already said, to every genre. Games in that genre either suck or are enjoyable. That's... well, obvious.

[Spigot]

I liked Gabriel Knight 2. GK3 on the other hand...

[Xenkylm]

Oh, and turning the wiimote on its side does not obviate the questions about how well it can play sports and fighters out of the box. The control scheme for Double Dragon or Super TecmoBowl just won't cut it today.

Fair enough, but the nunchuck setup gives you access to four buttons (two on each hand), a four-direction control pad (on the wiimote), and an analog stick (on the nunchuck), PLUS two free-moving accelerometer-based controls. Stop forgetting about the buttons. Everyone forgets about the buttons. It drives me freaking nuts. That's why I made the picture. The controller has buttons. If you want buttons, buttons it has. Has buttons, it does.

[Furtive]

While off topic about what genres do and dont work I just thought I'd chime in with one little bit of information I remember reading during this years E3. The Wii still has 4 controller ports on it which will allow you to plug in standard Gamecube controllers. Wasn't it announced that fighting games such as the new Smash Bros will most likely use a standard controller?

Anyways back ON-Topic, I for one cant wait to see some adventure games on the Wii. A first person adventure like the Tex Murphy games would make my day.

[Zaro]

I want a sequel of Shadowgates.
I've like this game on the NES and the one on the N64 was good enough.

[Spigot]

I want a sequel of Shadowgates.
I've like this game on the NES and the one on the N64 was good enough.
Shadowgate was and still is one of my favourite NES games. I have the N64 version but never really spent much time with it.

A Wii version would rock my frickin' socks right off. Then I'd need to get a ladder to climb up to the niche hidden behind some rocks near a waterfall to get them back, but only if I have the shield to hide me from the dragon fire and even then I have to hope I find them before my torch burns out.