No Gears of War Demo Before Launch

[bapenguin]

The title says it all. So does Mark Rein on the official forums (http://gearsforums.epicgames.com/showpost.php?p=7822717&postcount=145).

I don't see any way we could do a demo before the game comes out. We've said that before. Demos take a long time to create and polish and we can't afford to get derailled like that if we want to have the game in stores by Thanksgiving. Given a choice of the game this year or a demo this year and the game next year I'm sure every one of you would rather have the game this year because you're already planning to buy it. No idea if we'll do a demo or not after the game ships. I know we have some very cool plans (not 100% solid so too early to give any specifics) for additional downloadable so that might take a higher priority than creating a demo.
In case you missed it, the official release date was announced today (http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15819).

So there you have it. Not good news for people wanting to try it out before launch, but from everything we've heard from E3 the game is solid.

[Zawath]

The game is so overhyped that it doesn't need a demo, people will buy it anyway. I'm sure Halo 3 won't have a demo either.

[absolut taco]

I can't imagine anyone being a fence-sitter over this title, so a demo is fairly useless. The only reason I want a demo is so I can play it before launch.

[Metal Jesus]

They don't need it.

You put out a demo if people are on the fence or you are trying to build up market awareness. This game won Best Game of E3, and millions of copies will probably be sold...without a demo.

[michaelwhite]

Who would have thought that cutting and pasting one level or one mission would be so hard? I've seen Half-Life mods with more technical flair than what some of these moles slide under the table.

[Kamalot]

Agreed. This game has enough positive hype that they don't need a demo. They WILL put out a demo 6-9 months after the initial release to re-invigorate sales.

Them's Microsoft Life marketing dudes be savvy.

[Harlan Hoyt]

I really do not understand why any company wouldn't put out a demo of their game on Live as soon as it's playable and not crashing. I mean, why not? I love playing demos of games -- with games costing $60 a pop, I think a runthrough with the demo or a rental is a must.

I think it's a shame that Gears of War isn't getting a demo. It's not a game I'm particularlly interested in, but I'd like to check it out. I won't be buying sight unseen, however.

Edit:
Agreed. This game has enough positive hype that they don't need a demo.
I don't really understand this thinking. If word of mouth is great, why not put out a demo and prove how awesome your game is? It can only help sales as far as I can see, and doing the opposite can only hurt. It seems like putting out a demo of a universally acclaimed game can only be a positive.

[michaelwhite]

I really do not understand why any company wouldn't put out a demo of their game on Live as soon as it's playable and not crashing. I mean, why not? I love playing demos of games -- with games costing $60 a pop, I think a runthrough with the demo or a rental is a must.

I think it's a shame that Gears of War isn't getting a demo. It's not a game I'm particularlly interested in, but I'd like to check it out. I won't be buying sight unseen, however.

I'd say it's near the same premise as to why some movies aren't viewed by critics before release.

[Harlan Hoyt]

I'd say it's near the same premise as to why some movies aren't viewed by critics before release.
Sure, but that only happens when movies are shit (Alone in the Dark or Gigli) or review proof (Pokemon or kids' movies). By all accounts, Gears of War is going to be awesome (if not my thing).

[michaelwhite]

CliffyB said Unreal 2 was awesome too.

[soco]

I don't really understand this thinking. If word of mouth is great, why not put out a demo and prove how awesome your game is? It can only help sales as far as I can see, and doing the opposite can only hurt. It seems like putting out a demo of a universally acclaimed game can only be a positive.

why not? if a company keeps hyping up a game, that's already on a lot of people's wish lists, and it's not as awesome as they claim, then suddenly everything falls apart. i've seen it happen to peple who tried the loco roco demo, among a few others. it's one of those things that goes both ways, and it's possible to skew the perspective by pulling out one of the worst portions of the game (obviously not willingly). with 360 games alone, a lot of my friends were really excited about several games in the past few months until they tried the demo. N3 for example.

[Whodaknown]

Who would have thought that cutting and pasting one level or one mission would be so hard? I've seen Half-Life mods with more technical flair than what some of these moles slide under the table.

Spoken like a man who has absolutely zero knowledge of game development. It's a little bit tougher than a cut and paste, but thanks for your input.

[Dag-Sabot]

CliffyB said Unreal 2 was awesome too.
yeahouch!
(at least 10 characters)

[michaelwhite]

Spoken like a man who has absolutely zero knowledge of game development. It's a little bit tougher than a cut and paste, but thanks for your input.

I know a bit more than you presume.

[Kamalot]

I think it's a shame that Gears of War isn't getting a demo. It's not a game I'm particularlly interested in, but I'd like to check it out. I won't be buying sight unseen, however.
I won't buy it sight unseen either. I'll either get it for a gift or rent it. If you aren't into buying games, sight unseen, then wait or rent it. If you wait, a demo will come out. I just downloaded the demo for Dead or Alive 4, a launch title. It isn't worth $60 to me, but I enjoy the demo and would end up paying $25 for the game. I'll wait for the price drop or to find it on sale somewhere someday.

Offering a demo before the game is available if preferable to consumers, but offering a demo 6 months after launch is better for the publisher and developer, if the game already has enough good press. It will revitalize interest after the initial sales surge dies off.

For games that do not have a lot of hype, releasing a demo prior to the game's release could convince people to pick it up.

I had no interest in Prey before the demo was released. In fact, I hadn't heard 2 words about it. Once I played the demo, I HAD to have the game.

I had moderate interest in Battle for Middle Earth. Once I played the demo, I realized that, while impressive, the game was not for me.

Ridge Racer actually sold me with the demo, months after the game's release.

While having a demo released months after the game isn't as good for consumers as before the game's launch, it is better than having no demo at all.

[Schnoogs]

Spoken like a man who has absolutely zero knowledge of game development. It's a little bit tougher than a cut and paste, but thanks for your input.

Amen to this post. People complain that games are too linear in gameplay and too segmented between levels. Then when the games buck that trend people complain that they cant be easily broken up for a demo.

Make up your mind people.

[Manzy]

I remember the Ninja Gaiden demo leaving a bleh taste in my mouth, but the final game being ridiculously awesome.

[Captain Awesome]

I'd say it's near the same premise as to why some movies aren't viewed by critics before release.


yes, because a movie "critic" is a perfect gauge for whats good or bad. Joel Siegel is a perfect example of how useless they are.

[Johan]

I agree with the numerous others who said a demo was unnecessary; in fact, with such a hyped game and such pent-up-demand for it, a demo could potentially be a risk, in that it might turn some people off if the gameplay isn't as tight as people hear/think/hope it will be (Manzy got at this point a bit)...

It sure looks awesome; I wish I were made of money.

[EternalGamer]

Amen to this post. People complain that games are too linear in gameplay and too segmented between levels. Then when the games buck that trend people complain that they cant be easily broken up for a demo.

Make up your mind people.


But Gears of War is NOT a sandbox games. It is incredibly linear from what I've seen. It's a series of rooms. And what the fuck was the E3 version if not a demo? They already have a demo for the game, very clearly... unless that wasn't actually running on 360s...

[Tricky Thumb]

The amount of people who'd have bought the game with a demo before launch are doubtfully enough to warrent the development cost and time.

[Achilles]

I really do not understand why any company wouldn't put out a demo of their game on Live as soon as it's playable and not crashing. I mean, why not?First of all in my experience games don't stop crashing till the week before they ship if they're lucky. Secondly, have you ever played a 'first playable' version of a game? They're not what you want to show off and it wouldn't be an accurate representation of the final game.

[danhoo]

I feel like every time I buy a game based on hype (which I've stopped doing), I've gotten burned. In most cases, the game itself was what I would consider a good game, but just not my cup of tea. Nowadays, I don't buy anything unless I've either rented it or played a demo first. But I am getting old and, thus, cheap.

[Schnoogs]

But Gears of War is NOT a sandbox games. It is incredibly linear from what I've seen. It's a series of rooms. And what the fuck was the E3 version if not a demo? They already have a demo for the game, very clearly... unless that wasn't actually running on 360s...

Just because they played it at E3 doesnt mean they had a demo that could be widely distributed. That was probably a production build of some sort.

[The Continental]

This isn't a big deal. It's a console game, and the beauty of console games lies in the ability to rent them. Rent it, if it sucks, don't buy it. If it's good, beat it then return it. :)

[Harlan Hoyt]

First of all in my experience games don't stop crashing till the week before they ship if they're lucky. Secondly, have you ever played a 'first playable' version of a game? They're not what you want to show off and it wouldn't be an accurate representation of the final game.
I'm not really arguing for the immediate release of E3 demos, or the tottering first steps towards playability. I do say, however, that Xbox Live is a powerful tool, and if you have a great game, there's no reason not to release a demo when you release the game.

I understand the "buck up sales six months down the road" argument, but I think it's a bit sketchy. The underlying assumption of that idea (releasing a demo might turn off people who might otherwise buy the game) seems so patently anti-consumer. Which, frankly, given the state of the industry, doesn't seem all that off base ...

At book stores, you can go and flip through books to your hearts content. Films are a bit different, since they cost a whole lot less. But the realm of film criticism (despite the hate it seems to engender here on EvAv) is a lot more mature than that of game criticism. I mean, the realms of 5-0 points on review scales are almost unused ... you have to make a game that simply won't boot to get anything below a four.

You can argue for renting, and I do rent games on occasion, but the places I rent games cost 5-10% of the total cost of the game. That's not a terribly consumer friendly fact, either.

I agree that sometimes demos can be detrimental to the companies that produce them ... but I still don't see that as a problem. If they release a demo of a game, and a sizable percentage of the people who would have bought a game based on hype play that demo decide that that game is not for them and end up not buying it (a game that you can't return, and can only resell for pennies on the dollar) ... how can that be bad? Game companies will have to start making games that people want to play, as opposed to making people want to play the games they make.

If games want to get out of the stagnant market they're in, this is the direction they have to move in. I think regularly releasing demos for games is the way that it should go. And I'm not even asking for a huge demo ... and hour, an hour and a half of game play -- a proof of concept more than anything.

At any rate, that's my opinion.

[Zacharai]

I remember the Ninja Gaiden demo leaving a bleh taste in my mouth, but the final game being ridiculously awesome.
Always a fear in game development, that the demo doesn't accurately reflect the strengths of a game. Prey's demo worked so well because you were able to see the initial abduction, portal technology, spirit-walking, and gravity manipulation. Really, the rest of the game was more of the same.

After GoW goes gold, they have a few options. If there are still some rare bugs, developers can work on patches for those. They can shunt the rest of the devs off to either create a demo (expanding their customer base months after release), or create downloadable content (milking existing customers). I'd go with option B, because it already has such good name recognition. Chances are, if you have gaming friends, someone is going to have it to show off.

[CrashCart]

And I'm not even asking for a huge demo ... and hour, an hour and a half of game play -- a proof of concept more than anything.Proof of concept? That can be about 15-30% of the entire game these days. ;)

[Harlan Hoyt]

Proof of concept? That can be about 15-30% of the entire game these days. ;)
Guess I've spent too much time playing Oblivion.

[CrashCart]

Guess I've spent too much time playing Oblivion.I was mostly poking fun at extremely short games like Prey (which I enjoyed while it lasted), where an hour and a half could practically give you half of the game. I do agree with your original point that a decently sized demo that can give you the feel for a game can be really nice to have. It's just too bad that some games are just too short to be able to offer anything sizable. Hopefully Gears of War won't be yet another fun, but way too short game.

[Watership]

I hope that Gears of War and Halo 3 and other big games don't have demos. Just so the xbox 360 boards can go fucking crazy whining about "Where's the demo!???" The fact that most of them play it once and never touch it again, and that developers have to stop normal development or slow it down, so they can make a stable demo, .. it all pisses me off.

When Major Nelson was getting death threats on his board and through email because the Prey Demo was 1 1/2 weeks later than the PC.. I sorta wished MS said.. "You know what? Fuck you all."

Why isn't this a problem on the pc community? perhaps because if they get a bug free demo, they'd be lucky. Perhaps its because console gaming is so many times bigger ... who knows.

[Dag-Sabot]

...death threats eh? Would that be so bad?

[Watership]

Always a fear in game development, that the demo doesn't accurately reflect the strengths of a game. Prey's demo worked so well because you were able to see the initial abduction, portal technology, spirit-walking, and gravity manipulation. Really, the rest of the game was more of the same.


Chromehounds demo was pretty horrible for showing the highlights of that game. I played it, and left thinking it was a horrible experience. It wasn't until playing it at friends house online that I started to see it's merits.

[Returner]

CliffyB said Unreal 2 was awesome too.

Unreal 2 sucked so much ass. Hopefully GoW won't be as bad.

[BrainDrain]

As much as I'd like to have a demo beforehand, it surely won't affect my decision to buy. It's been on my must-have list all year. I do agree that people get bent out of shape about demos. Saints Row is one demo that has changed my mind about buying it. I've gone from meh to hmm and am anxious to see how to final version turns out.

[Zanzibar]

Chromehounds demo was pretty horrible for showing the highlights of that game. I played it, and left thinking it was a horrible experience. It wasn't until playing it at friends house online that I started to see it's merits.

Was the Chromehounds demo ever released in the US?

[Mason]

Pre-launch demos and public betas disillusion your biggest fans before their wallets have left their pockets. It's weird that anyone still does them.

[Jack B]

As much as I'd like to have a demo beforehand, it surely won't affect my decision to buy. It's been on my must-have list all year. I do agree that people get bent out of shape about demos. Saints Row is one demo that has changed my mind about buying it. I've gone from meh to hmm and am anxious to see how to final version turns out.

Yeah, that's a good point. I believe the Chromehounds demo did a ton of damage to their sales. Word of mouth has started to overcome the reviews and the demo..., but the demo probably didn't help.

I had the same feeling about Saints Row as you did, but the demo was good enough to make me interested. It's still not a genre I'm into, but I loved the use of Dolby 5.1, the rag doll physics, voice acting in cut scenes... I probably couldn't see myself playing through single player, but after playing the demo, I'm intrigued enough to keep my eye on it for multiplayer...

The demo did raise my interest level.

[Jack B]

Was the Chromehounds demo ever released in the US?

Not yet. I wouldn't doubt they don't bother unless they add multiplayer only to the demo. That might work. Just skip the single player all together.

[Draft]

Pre-launch demos and public betas disillusion your biggest fans before their wallets have left their pockets. It's weird that anyone still does them.Or they get your fans so fucking amped up they practically trip over themselves to buy your game.

See Q3Test, or the 2 million copies of ZOE that were bought and them immediately resold sans MGS2 demo.

[Grifter]

What I find funny is we have all this talk about episodic content this and episodic content that blah...blah...blah, everyone seems to be ignoring a major publicity(sp?) opportunity. From the beginning of a games development a small team should be set aside for a couple months (after engine creation of course) to create a single level cliff hanger style demo that is not actually in the full game but a teaser introduction to get people hooked on the story and gameplay before the game is released, a minie prequel in a sense.

I understand the resources, time and money this may cost but it may get many more people interested in a game they weren't previously interested in and hopefully be a small incentive to create higher quality story lines and more indepth charecters for games in order to take advantage of this.

Imagine playing as the squad escorting the president in GRAW during the kidnapping and assault, being part of the end of the war Marcus was involved in leading to his arrest or maybe even playing as the terrorists in Rainbow Six Vegas during the assault of the casino. I don't think there is a better way of getting people intersted in a game or IP than getting them hooked on the story and/or charecters involved.

[Draft]

^^^good idea.

[Kamalot]

Yeah, that's a good point. I believe the Chromehounds demo did a ton of damage to their sales. Word of mouth has started to overcome the reviews and the demo..., but the demo probably didn't help.
I downloaded the Chromehounds demo and hated it. I know that there are a bunch out there on my friends list who play it constantly, but I am waiting for a multiplayer demo.

[Kamalot]

^^^good idea.
The video in your signature never gets old.

[Draft]

The video in your signature never gets old.There's secret bonus hilarity in there as well.

[Mason]

Or they get your fans so fucking amped up they practically trip over themselves to buy your game.

See Q3Test, or the 2 million copies of ZOE that were bought and them immediately resold sans MGS2 demo.
People were already insanely hyped about those games, though. And logically speaking, it's really hard to have a good demo for a bad game, while it's entirely possible to have a bad demo for a good game.

More often than not, though, it's a bad demo for a bad game which scares away the people who might've bought or rented it out of curiosity. This keeps people for wasting money, which is great, but it still really isn't helping the developers at all.

[Draft]

So? they're hyped for GoW too.

The E3 multiplayer demo garnered near universal acclaim. I don't think this is a case of them trying to flimflam you into buying GoW on hype alone. Instead, they're probably concentrating on polishing the game for retail, instead of pulling 10 people off whatever their normal job is to polish up an hour long section of it.

Demos rule. I bought Condemned for the PC on the strength of its demo. Never would have given the game a second glance had it not been for that demo.

[bapenguin]

But Gears of War is NOT a sandbox games. It is incredibly linear from what I've seen. It's a series of rooms. And what the fuck was the E3 version if not a demo? They already have a demo for the game, very clearly... unless that wasn't actually running on 360s...

They could have had the full version at E3...but only let people have access to certain sections. Most of it was Multiplayer at E3 anyway.

[Reanimated]

I'd say it's near the same premise as to why some movies aren't viewed by critics before release.



Sorry but all the critics who played Gears of War at E3 said it was awesome. Guess you'll have to find another thread to troll. You're done here.

[Cyrano]

Given a choice of the game this year or a demo this year and the game next year I'm sure every one of you would rather have the game this year because you're already planning to buy it.

Is it just me, or did this Bozo just say that every one of us is planning to buy his game? He sounds like an overconfident prick. I feel like not buying it just to prove him wrong.

[RMan]

Heavily marketed and hyped games like this will almost assuredly lose money by releasing a demo. Demos are used to create awareness, there aren’t many 360 owners that are unaware of the game, and since the 360 crowd is still pretty hardcore, they’ll often buy it anyway (I mean, it’s the best looking thing on the system, and graphics are most likely why they bought the system). Even with a great demo, you’re bound to disappoint many gamers that were just expecting something different or better, so there’s just little upside to doing it.

[theguido]

Remind me why we're supposed to care about this game so much? The depth of Epic's pedigree, if you can even call it that, is the Unreal and Unreal Tournament games--and now, for some bizarre reason more people care about this game than UT 2007, a kind of game that Epic has proven that they're good at. Why?

[Bishop]

That's a load of crap.......Why can't they put the E3 demo on XBOX Live Marketplace? That worked fine or so it seemed, I don't think that's asking for a lot by any stretch of the imagination.

Sorry if someone already posted something similar, but I just got off work (12 hour shift) and I haven't had a chance to read the other post.

[Bishop]

I downloaded the Chromehounds demo and hated it. I know that there are a bunch out there on my friends list who play it constantly, but I am waiting for a multiplayer demo.

Chromehounds reminded me of a game way-back-when call Omnibots, anyone else ever play that game? I found that the so-called mech designs were just better looking versions of the ones in Omnibots.

[MoJoBehaumat]

That's a load of crap.......Why can't they put the E3 demo on XBOX Live Marketplace? That worked fine or so it seemed, I don't think that's asking for a lot by any stretch of the imagination.

Sorry if someone already posted something similar, but I just got off work (12 hour shift) and I haven't had a chance to read the other post.

Should they? I mean why not let the hype machine keep on rollin? :p

[Mason]

Heavily marketed and hyped games like this will almost assuredly lose money by releasing a demo. Demos are used to create awareness, there aren’t many 360 owners that are unaware of the game, and since the 360 crowd is still pretty hardcore, they’ll often buy it anyway (I mean, it’s the best looking thing on the system, and graphics are most likely why they bought the system). Even with a great demo, you’re bound to disappoint many gamers that were just expecting something different or better, so there’s just little upside to doing it.
Yeah, exactly. I think it makes sense for A-list games to release a demo post-launch, just to convert some percentage of the undecided/curious into purchases before newer games hog all the attention. But pre-launch, all it does is disillusion the rabid fans and divert precious development resources.

Rise of Legends, for example, was a lot more highly anticipated before its weak first demo came out. The second demo was a lot stronger, but it's certain that the first one turned some people off.

[Schnoogs]

I've never seen more baseless arguments in one thread. Never underestimate this forums ability to over analyze an issue with baseless arguments.

I'll laugh when we all find out that their decision to not release a demo is based on them rushing to meet a release date and not because of some carefully planned out marketing strategy and analysis.

Certain individuals in this thread seem to think their decision is the result of careful consideration. More likely its because they can't afford to divert any resources because they put their foot in their mouth in regards to a release date.

[51|RandoM]

Pre-launch demos and public betas disillusion your biggest fans before their wallets have left their pockets. It's weird that anyone still does them.

Way true, especially for MMORPGs. Most of the ones I've beta tested have convinced me I do not want to waste money on the release version.

I don't buy the timing excuse for the demo, though. If your game is at least ok, make a demo. If you're really afraid it'll turn people off, don't release it till a week after you launch the game. The early buyers will have already jumped and you'll still reel in people on the fence.

[Limech]

As they said, creating demos take time. In their case, Bill Gates probably told them they have to release before PS3 or else. :)

Therefore, since they are already trying to deliver under tough deadlines, putting any time or resources on getting a demo approved by Xbox live Marketplace is crazy.

[RMan]

As they said, creating demos take time.
This is definitely true. However, they have stated that they may not have a demo, and that downloadable content may take precedent (if you know how these announcements work, 'may' most likely means 'will'). Clearly a demo is not a high priority, and from a purely financial standpoint it is wise.