Could History repeat itself for the Wii?

[bapenguin]

Gameworld Network (http://consoles.gwn.com/articles/article.php/id/764/p/4/) takes a look at past motion based input devices like the PowerGlove (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_Glove) and the Sega Activator (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sega_Activator) in relation to Nintendo's upcoming Wii. What's the one thing all the devices have in common? They aren't very accurate.

If you look these three examples, you will notice a common thread among them: all three failed largely because of imprecise input. While interest in the Wii at this year’s E3 was staggering, and most of the people who played it thought it was great fun, the largest complaint was that the controls were too imprecise. Technology has improved greatly in the past decade, so that’s not to say that Nintendo can’t iron out the kinks in the next few months, but history is not working in Nintendo’s favor here.
Of the few people I talked to that actually got to play the system that was the number 1 complaint I heard, the input system simply isn't accurate...yet.

Thanks Joystiq (http://www.joystiq.com) for the tip.

[Blade]

The other big complaint is... even if it is accurate, some of the games (Red Steel) won't be taking advantage.

[ZephidsEmbrace]

I hadn't heard that at all, but that's a bit of a letdown. If it's still imprecise when it comes out, that's one thing that could prevent me from buying a Wii. I kind of doubt that it'll be a huge problem by release, but if they were having problems at E3 I guess we'll have to see how it goes.

[EternalGamer]

The reports I read were that some of the games had a huge problem with precision whereas others did not. This seems to be a software issue for the most part. I expect it to get worked out over time.

[JazGalaxy]

Isn't this an arcticle for the sake of saying something negative about Wii?

"This just in! If first national bank was going to be robbed, this is how it might happen. Cue the video!"

[Sloth]

Well I've played many shooting games at arcades and I have to say that innaccurate motion sensing is the biggest letdown with these types of games. It is very frustrating to have to compensate for an inaccurate sensor.

[Abednigo]

It's interesting that they are comparing this 2006 device with peripherals that came out what...20 years ago? Yeah, they wouldn't have improved at all since then.

[bapenguin]

Isn't this an arcticle for the sake of saying something negative about Wii?

"This just in! If first national bank was going to be robbed, this is how it might happen. Cue the video!"

Well I think the article is good for bringing up a discussion about the similarities of the devices. I don't think they are saying the Wii WILL be bad or fail or anything, but they are saying - "here's what happened with similar devices"

[RMan]

Although perhaps accuracy was a problem, the conclusion that that's why these things failed is pretty silly. They failed primarily because they were 3rd party controllers, and retrofiting games with a new controller for which the games were not designed is clearly a problem (and that's if you ignore the fact that users have to buy them seperately, resulting in a naturally smaller userbase). I can't think of a single non-standard/3rd party controller that didn't have games designed for it that was a success.

[Abednigo]

Although perhaps accuracy was a problem, the conclusion that that's why these things failed is pretty silly. They failed primarily because they were 3rd party controllers, and retrofiting games with a new controller for which the games were not designed is clearly a problem. I can't think of a single non-standard/3rd party controller that didn't have games designed for it that was a success.

And let's not forget the pivotal role the Power Glove played in The Wiz starring Fred Savage. ;)

[Khash]

The Wii needs to go beyond just replacing button presses with movement.

[xcalibur]

The Wii pointer is accurate.


-X

[dudemarky]

Don't worry about the accuracy. After playing it at E3, I didn't see any issues with accuracy. There are plenty of control tweaks that developers are surely considering like sensitivity, but there isn't a think wrong with the hardware.

[cannedpasta]

If it's so inaccutare, what's with all the third-party support?

[Grimgrock]

If it's so inaccutare, what's with all the third-party support?


My thoughts exactly.

[Phanto]

They should have or they are fixing that before the launch, so we can expect a more accurate system/gameplay with the controller.

[Rook34]

If it's so inaccutare, what's with all the third-party support?

Not only that, but would Nintendo release a system where it's main selling point was flawed? I think not.

[Worldcrafter]

I suspect that any inaccuracy issues there may be are purely software related. Early reports were the system was overly sensitive, and that means a developer has lots of data to work with, and can interpret the player's movements more accurately. If people were saying the Wii required very broad movements to register, then we'd have a problem, because you can't make hardware more sensitive to movement, no matter how much software you write.

At any rate, most reports I've heard from people who have used the Wii seem to indicate the controls are going to work fine. I think this can only become more true as developers get better acquainted with the hardware.

[Worldcrafter]

Not only that, but would Nintendo release a system where it's main selling point was flawed? I think not.
Heh. Some would probably point you in the direction of the Virtual Boy.
I really liked the VB and still enjoy playing it to this day.

[Ernst_Jager]

I think in idea it is great, but in use it will fail. How many of you play games with friends or have kids that push and pull on you while you are playing? Everytime someone bumps your arm or causes you to move your hand it would potentially mess up the controls. I can already see two kids getting super pissed at one another for messing them up on the last lvl of a game because of this motion control.

[Worldcrafter]

I think in idea it is great, but in use it will fail. How many of you play games with friends or have kids that push and pull on you while you are playing? Everytime someone bumps your arm or causes you to move your hand it would potentially mess up the controls. I can already see two kids getting super pissed at one another for messing them up on the last lvl of a game because of this motion control.
I don't know how it is when you play with a control pad, but if my arm gets knocked around while playing a game, I'm likely to screw up. That hasn't stopped me from playing.

[Achilles]

Of the few people I talked to that actually got to play the system that was the number 1 complaint I heard, the input system simply isn't accurate...yet.From the developer interviews that I’ve read the controller is very accurate. However people’s hand movements and the way the inputs are tossed out there (it’s like a button that’s always on) make it so hard to read correct inputs, and avoid inadvertent inputs, that they have to make their games so they only accept very obvious gestures, which would lead it to looking inaccurate.

So the mechanism is accurate, but because of the way it works, the developers need to make it inaccurate or you couldn’t play the game.

[TDub301]

Well, it's true that that makes it easier to make another player mess up, but kids already get in fights about that with our current peripherals.

That being said, I think Nintendo would be very stupid to release their new system hyping up the wiimote so much then letting it have terrible accuracy. Other people commented that some games were playing well and some weren't, so this must mean that it's up to the software developer to make the wiimote accurate. Nintendo almost always puts out quality products that work great, so I'm sure any mistake in hardware wouldn't be made, they have too much time to fix any kinks before the wii is released (unlike Microsoft and Sony who seem to not notice glitches in their hardware until after it's been out for a few months). Although, I can see the magazine and internet reviews now of many games stating how good the game could have been if the developers just made the game with better control for the wiimote, it's definitely going to be a hurdle for any game developer (probably not as big as the PS3 dev kit hurdle, though).

[protocol_image]

Unfortuenately, I have bad inside-scoop news about the precision of the Wii controller. A good friend of mine works for a studio that is working on multiple Wii titles. Just about a week ago, he informed me that if you play in a room with windows (or any reflective surfaces), the input gets WAY screwed up. He even said that in one test he was performing, he had a glass bottle on the table in front of him, and it would pick up the bottle every so often.

He mentioned that Nintendo was hoping to add bluetooth to help resolve the times where the Wiimote gets "lost", but then E3 happened, and the spot that once had the bluetooth now contains the speaker. So, who knows what's going to come of all this.

It's kinda funny, because so many early reviewers that were granted private access to play with the system, did so in plain black rooms. No wonder the controls felt tight and responsive then.

[Zanzibar]

I suspect that any inaccuracy issues there may be are purely software related. Early reports were the system was overly sensitive, and that means a developer has lots of data to work with, and can interpret the player's movements more accurately. If people were saying the Wii required very broad movements to register, then we'd have a problem, because you can't make hardware more sensitive to movement, no matter how much software you write.

At any rate, most reports I've heard from people who have used the Wii seem to indicate the controls are going to work fine. I think this can only become more true as developers get better acquainted with the hardware.
Worldcrafter FTW!! This is EXACTLY what our programmers are saying. It's better to have too much data than too little, and 'too much' is what the Wii is giving us. Our programmers are happy campers.

[RMan]

Yea, I've seen few accuracy complaints, seems well within the margin of error for this type of thing I think. I think it is being said for the sake of a bad Wii comment, but doesn't seem to be an effort to attack it, more like a lack of anything better to talk about, and let's people reminisce on these old devices. I can still remember them pimping the activator, and trying to make it look like fun with a fighting game (I think they were using SFII). It looked so not fun, or remotely competitive (and this was when people were fairly uncompromising about their control in SFII), I just couldn’t see people getting beyond that to find any technical issues with the device itself.

[EternalGamer]

That might be a good reason that it wouldn't be good for long term aiming (like in Prime 3), but I think most developers will realize this. I know Prime 3 still has the the traditional lock on scheme you an use. The innovation and fun in the controller comes in those periodical gestures, like thrusting forward and pulling back to rip off an enemies shield in Prime. Games that overuse the pointer might be a problem, but again, that's a problem with the way its being implemented.

On a related note, I think it totally kicks ass that the pointer basically means you have a build in light gun for the system for games like House of the Dead or Virtua Cop. I want a Compilation of those Sega shooters. That would be a blast with a friend and I imagine the Wii remote has to be a hell of a lot better than those damn DC light guns. Those things were terrible. You hear me Sega? I want a House of the Dead Trilogy. You don't even have to brush up the graphics or anything. Hell throw the Virtua Cop games and Confidential Mission in for good measure. Now that's a product that would be worth full price.

[jacktion]

Jeez, I hadn't heard that it was imprecise. I heard only good things about it. You must have been reading some hater threads. It looked like some games were early and kind of rough so maybe that's what you are talking about. From the videos that I saw the pointer goes exactly where you point so maybe this remote device will be more dependent on the user's skill than a crude system like a control pad analog stick. If you have bad hand coordination and shaky hands then it might be imprecise but if you practice and are good you can have real skill-based control that is deep and intuitive. It is really too early to say though. This sounds like an article that just wants to bash the wii.

[Achilles]

Worldcrafter FTW!! This is EXACTLY what our programmers are saying. It's better to have too much data than too little, and that's what the Wii is giving us.So Nintendo noticed it was too sensitive and throttled it back without giving developers access to it? I bet Nintendo first party games will have access to it if their track record is any indication. Just about a week ago, he informed me that if you play in a room with windows (or any reflective surfaces), the input gets WAY screwed up. He even said that in one test he was performing, he had a glass bottle on the table in front of him, and it would pick up the bottle every so often.If that's the case than that's a huge problem. I'd expect that most developers would abandon any use of the IR sensor after launch (using only the tilt and poximity sensors).

[RMan]

However people’s hand movements and the way the inputs are tossed out there (it’s like a button that’s always on) make it so hard to read correct inputs, and avoid inadvertent inputs, that they have to make their games so they only accept very obvious gestures, which would lead it to looking inaccurate.
I could definitely see that being an initial problem. Gestures are not used much, and 3D gestures have little precedent and the vast majority of designers have likely done nothing like it. It’d definitely be challenging to accurately incorporate many gestures and have them adapt to multiple play styles, but certainly not a difficult hurdle in the grand scheme of a game’s development. I’d say at launch Nintendo may be one of the few companies to nail such elements, but it won’t take long for everyone else to produce good results I think (heck, they may make/have an API for that, gesture recognition could certainly be abstracted in such a way, and would produce a much more cohesive experience across multiple games).

[mkelehan]

You know what else they all have in common? They weren't made by Nintendo. Nintendo's only forays into motion sensing gaming, that I can recall, are Kirby Tilt n' Tumble and Wario Ware Twisted. And they worked, let's see... flawlessly.

[tombofsoldier]

Well hopefully Nintendo can fix this in time, if the Wii ends up as another virtual boy Nintendo just might end up going the way of Sega.

[protocol_image]

If that's the case than that's a huge problem. I'd expect that most developers would abandon any use of the IR sensor after launch (using only the tilt and poximity sensors).

The scary part is, that sure sounds probable. What gods can we pray to, so that this doesn't become a reality???

[laggerific]

It's interesting that they are comparing this 2006 device with peripherals that came out what...20 years ago? Yeah, they wouldn't have improved at all since then.

Unfortunately they are comparing that aged tech with modern tech and finding modern tech has a lot of the same issues...so those problems are still unfortunately relevant today.

I have a lightgun that works like the wii controller for aiming at HDTVs...it is far from accurate and mainly works when aiming in relation to where you had previously aimed, as opposed to being able to aim arbitrarily.

[Watership]

All this 'speculation' about accuracy problems will be moot about 1 week after the device is launched. Developer reports, 5 mins usage reviews and the glowing promises that this technology is giving will all come down to about 200,000 people playing with it for an extended period of time, then coming into the forums to complain/rave about it.

[Zanzibar]

So Nintendo noticed it was too sensitive and throttled it back without giving developers access to it? I bet Nintendo first party games will have access to it if their track record is any indication.
Sorry, my statement may have been unclear. I said 'it's better to get too much data than too little, and that's what the Wii is giving us' - but I meant the Wii is giving us 'too much,' not 'too little.' We've got PLENTY of data to work with. Our programmers haven't complained at all about the amount of telemetry they're getting from the Wiimote.

[Achilles]

Sorry, my statement may have been unclear. I said 'it's better to get too much data than too little, and that's what the Wii is giving us' - but I meant the Wii is giving us 'too much,' not 'too little.' We've got PLENTY of data to work with. Our programmers haven't complained at all about the amount of telemetry they're getting from the Wiimote.Ah! Well that's much better then. Your statement really did sound like you were getting too little data. It's good they let you handle the data yourselves instead of putting it out of reach. On top of that I read Worldcrafter wrong as well, he was giving a hypothetical about them not giving enough info.

[easi]

2 news posts side by side. Both about the Rev. One positive, one negative. Why does the negative get 3x the replies?

And why couldn't you just let the Rev bask in the feelgood for a day?

[GammaLeak]

My guess is that if a given game requires a lot of precision, that's going to be more difficult for the developer (not impossible, though), and if the game really only requires "broad" movements then that will be easier for the developer.

For instance: Really precise FPS titles are, I think, going to be harder for the developers to get right. On the other hand, stuff like Nintendo's tennis game will be much easier to get right.

Another problem that I think is going to manifest itself is that games that require a lot of precision may also be physically tiresome to play with the wiimote. I could be wrong, though...

[soco]

negative posts in general tend to get more comments, in most places. unless it's about something no one cares about ;)

i read quite a few articles pointing out the problems with sensitivity, and others with variou control complaints back around E3. i've also read some (rumours?) about how there might be problems in smaller room setups and with halogen lights in the rooms. i think one of the biggest problems is that many of the people at E3 didn't really get a lot of time with the devices, so it's possible they just didn't have time to get used to it.

the biggest control killer i've seen so far is for Metroid, and the fact that you have to move the pointer to the side of the screen to cause it to scroll, which means that for FPS like games, someone could possibly come from behind and kill you before you can even get to turn around and shoot them.

however, i don't think it's the lack of sensitivity that would cause it to fail, if it actually fails. i think it'll be human laziness. when i come home from a long day at work, i don't generally wanna flail my arms around for hours on end. maybe i'm just lazier than most?

[F3nyx]

2 news posts side by side. Both about the Rev. One positive, one negative. Why does the negative get 3x the replies?

And why couldn't you just let the Rev bask in the feelgood for a day?You're surprised that negativity gets more attention? Have you ever watched the news? :confused:

You seem a little paranoid of bias. Also, if you're so hot and bothered over Wii news, you should probably get used to the new name.

[31 Flavas]

Well I think the article is good for bringing up a discussion about the similarities of the devices. I don't think they are saying the Wii WILL be bad or fail or anything, but they are saying - "here's what happened with similar devices"Bap, not to be a troll or anything... but where was counter article when the PSP came out? Every competitor to the GameBoy failed to gain any foot hold because they had bad battery life, high price tags, were physically very large. Sony decided those were not enough problems and decided to throw in $40-$50 game price tags, load times, and high game development costs to the PSP, as well.

Those three reasons alone, PSP's extra problems not withstanding, killed all of Nintendo's competiton. But there was no "could history repeat itself" (or "here's what happened with similar devices") article with the PSP... Just OMG, a *SONY* handheld _-)*drool*(-_

Outside of fans' posting their opinions on forums you don't ever see Nintendo's competition being critiqued. And now that the it looks like "history could repeat itself" with Wii being just as popular as the DS (i.e. Ungodly fan interest at E3). It's time to dig up some dirt on Nintendo and go to the presses.

[AzN.Homeboy]

Don't know if it's been mentioned, but the reason the Power Glove and Activator failed was because they were not the main form of control. They were gimmicky add-ons that few (if any) games supported well.

[bapenguin]

Bap, not to be a troll or anything... but where was counter article when the PSP came out? Every competitor to the GameBoy failed to gain any foot hold because they had bad battery life, high price tags, were physically very large. Sony decided those were not enough problems and decided to throw in $40-$50 game price tags, load times, and high game development costs to the PSP, as well.

I remember plenty of articles saying that the PSP would fail. I also remember seeing articles on how it was going to be "different" this time and they would compete with Nintendo. I don't know what you are implying.

[Siraris]

I'm a bit baffled by the responses in this thread. People complaining about a negative Nintendo thread, when nothing being said is negative whatsoever. It's not like Nintendo is getting any negative press whatsoever this generation. With the way things work, Nintendo could announce that baby lambs are killed to make the gyroscopes for the Wii controller, and no one would care.

As for the article, I can't help but agree. In 20 years of gaming, I've seen dozens of peripherals come out and promise the world and not work. This is why I'm not going all bonkers over the Wii because I feel it's a "been there done that" sort of thing. I got my panties in a knot about the power glove, and the power pad, and all the other newfangled inventions, and in the end they didn't work. With friends of mine who went to E3 echoing the same sentiments that were shown in the OP - that the controller was really cool, but it was innacurate and frustrating at times - I'm not going to throw blind faith behind Nintendo at this point. If it comes out, and it's flawless, huzzah I'm getting one.

Just because people are skeptical that something totally unproven may not work, doesn't mean they are being negative; they are being realistic.

[Goronmon]

I can sum up this article in one statement.

"If the Wii sucks, it won't do well."

Maybe if there was some actual data or reasons besides decade-old technology and the assertion about complaints regarding "imprecise controls" I would find this article useful at all.

[Stormwatcher]

The scary part is, that sure sounds probable. What gods can we pray to, so that this doesn't become a reality???
I call that Bullshit. People played the wii on an e3. LOTS of lights blinking EVERYWHERE.

Big bowl of bullshit.

[Neosho]

I call that Bullshit. People played the wii on an e3. LOTS of lights blinking EVERYWHERE.

Big bowl of bullshit.

I don't think it's the lights that cause problems...something about the IR signal not transmitting clearly through glass or off glass reflections or something. You know how you can turn a TV on by pointing the IR using remote and a mirror? Well...think about that when you're trying to pick up the location/movement of the Wiimote on a static reciever.

[RMan]

Just because people are skeptical that something totally unproven may not work, doesn't mean they are being negative; they are being realistic.
Actually, although it may not be intentional, it is not by any means a level-headed look at the Wii. It barely mentions the fact that these other devices were not standard, and did not have remotely adequate software support, and places the blame for their failure on the one thing that might end up bad in the Wii. It doesn't compare to the analog stick or touch screen which were standard devices and did work. Failing to compare to the more similar devices because they weren’t failures is precisely what makes it a negative article, it’s not realistic as you suggest.

[31 Flavas]

I remember plenty of articles saying that the PSP would fail. I also remember seeing articles on how it was going to be "different" this time and they would compete with Nintendo. I don't know what you are implying.Oh comon there were no 5 page articles compairing the PSP to failed products.

We had articles listing pros and cons maybe a paragraph detailing the battery life may not be optimal, but then you got 5 pages of good stuff.

[xcalibur]

This thread is overflowing with misinformation and errant speculation.


-X

[xcalibur]

the biggest control killer i've seen so far is for Metroid, and the fact that you have to move the pointer to the side of the screen to cause it to scroll, which means that for FPS like games, someone could possibly come from behind and kill you before you can even get to turn around and shoot them.


Last I checked, spinning 180' with a gamepad wasn't exactly lightning fast.


-X

[bapenguin]

Oh comon there were no 5 page articles compairing the PSP to failed products.

We had articles listing pros and cons maybe a paragraph detailing the battery life may not be optimal, but then you got 5 pages of good stuff.

Well I don't control the content for the entire internet...i'm not sure why you attacked me like it was my fault that someone did an article on the Wii.

[F3nyx]

With the way things work, Nintendo could announce that baby lambs are killed to make the gyroscopes for the Wii controller, and no one would care.LOLing at this bit.

Anyway, good post. I too am reserving judgement on the Wii until I get to try the controller with a suitable (i.e., not Red Steel) game.

This thread is overflowing with misinformation and errant speculation.


-XHmm... you double posted, you signed your posts outside a forum signature, and you insulted everyone in the thread without noting actual instances. Thank god your grammar and spelling are up to snuff, else we'd have to give you some kind of award.

[31 Flavas]

Well I don't control the content for the entire internet...i'm not sure why you attacked me like it was my fault that someone did an article on the Wii.Well, i'm sorry if it looked like I attacked the messanger. I was attacking the article, pointing out, you'd never get something like this created for any of the competiton. When they certainly could! It just woudn't get them good press like a good Wii (Nintendo) bash would.

[Wyrm]

I've been pretty lucky in my guessing about consoles thus far. I told everyone around me that would listen that the DS would outsell the PSP by a landslide. I predicted the PSP would fail.

Well, I'm crossing my fingers and predicting that the Wii will be this generation's run away success. My guess? They beat out both competitors in sales.

[GabeCube]

For the record -

Having been at E3 and played with the controller, I can safely say that SOME games had a quirky response to the input - Red Steel being the main culprit. But Zelda and Mario were surprisingly responsive. I'd say more precise than a mouse. There was a sequence in Mario Galaxy where you zoom in space and little star fragments fly by around you. You could use the Wii controller to pick them up - and even though they came fast and very spread out, I managed to get pretty much all of them.

Not only that, but the system has an almost magical ability to filter out smaller, undesired movements. When I wanted, I managed to hold the cursor without moving one single pixel (even though I was playing standing up, in the middle of the usual E3 madness).

Metroid Prime took a bit more getting used to, mostly because the pointer was used for the main movement of the character (in this case, spinning) and we all played this game with a different setup. But it was still very playable. As mentioned previously, you CAN use the aim lock feature like before.

[xcalibur]

Hmm... you double posted, you signed your posts outside a forum signature, and you insulted everyone in the thread without noting actual instances. Thank god your grammar and spelling are up to snuff, else we'd have to give you some kind of award.

re: double post
So? I guess I missed the "internet forum posting rules" class in college.

re: signing posts
see above

re: insulted everyone
How is making an observation considered "insulting" anyone? Sensitive much?


-X

[Nimos]

I remember a time when people here were from sceptical to totally negative in regards to the DS control method...

[Cubfan]

Oh comon there were no 5 page articles compairing the PSP to failed products.

We had articles listing pros and cons maybe a paragraph detailing the battery life may not be optimal, but then you got 5 pages of good stuff.

There was plenty of skepticism, plenty of doubt prior to the release of the PSP. The difference is that people were OK with it. For whatever reason, people don't seem to allow this same level of criticism when it comes to Nintendo. If there's an article/post that could be construed in any way of putting Nintendo/Nintendo products in a negative light, people get very defensive. Myself, I have no idea if the Wii will be the bee's knees when it's eventually released or if it'll fail, but I will admit that it is not out of the realm of possibility that it won't meet all our expectations. We'll see.

[31 Flavas]

Well, I'm crossing my fingers and predicting that the Wii will be this generation's run away success. My guess? They beat out both competitors in sales.While I hate Microsoft for a varitiey of reasons, I do like the premise of the Wii60 campain. I mean honestly, the two of us share interest in video games, so why can't we stop judging each other and just enjoy video games togehter. "Why can't we be friends?"

[Abednigo]

2 news posts side by side. Both about the Rev. One positive, one negative. Why does the negative get 3x the replies?

And why couldn't you just let the Rev bask in the feelgood for a day?

I wouldn't take it so personal. Just wait until there are 30 threads a day about Halo 3, and 29 of them are how it will "change the face of gaming forever!" Yawn. ;)

[soco]

Last I checked, spinning 180' with a gamepad wasn't exactly lightning fast.


the people writing the articles seemed to think it was slower than a gamepad. some thought it was awkward because whereas the mouse and gamepad move the entire view, the view in this case only moves when you move the cursor to the edge, other times you're leaving the screen where it's at and pointing and firing. if you need more potential problems spelled out with this scenario, i'd be glad to oblige. :D

doesn't mean they won't fix it, or that people won't get used to it, just what some people who tried it have said.

[EternalGamer]

I am skeptical of the report that states that the remotes are easily interfeared with by windows or other objects. If it was the case that they were that problematic, don't you think we would have heard about it at E3? I mean, here you have a venue where HUNDREDS of videogame monitors, crazy neon lights etc. and dozen of of Wii remotes are all being used simultaneously and there didn't seem to be hardly any problems of that sort reported. And monitors are reflective surfaces. Are you telling gme the remote was able to stand up in the crazy atmosphere of E3 with all this going on, yet my glass of water on the table is going to cause it to malfunction? That doesn't seem to make much sense.

Regardless, though, it won't be a big problem for me. I do my gaming on a projector in a room that is completely dark. The only windows are the sky lights and some very high (15 feet in the air) on the back wall. Certainly none of those would get in the way. Certainly it would be pain for those having to deal with that issue, but probably not much bigger than the one non-HDTV people face when trying to play dark 360 games like Kong or the cave and nighttime sequences in Oblivion.

[solinari6]

Regardless, though, it won't be a big problem for me. I do my gaming on a projector in a room that is completely dark. The only windows are the sky lights and some very high (15 feet in the air) on the back wall.
Ouch! You are aware of the IR Sensor bar that you have to place on top of your TV, right? That's going to be tough to do with a projector. I suppose you can hang it on the wall above the picture, but it ain't going to look pretty! :(

[Rafer]

I'm still optimistic, it sounds like to me people at E3 didn't have enough time to get used to the controls. Doesn't anyone remember how strange using a mouse+keyboard to control an FPS was the first time. I remember when Quake first came out you couldn't use the mouse to look up by default because it was too confusing for people, you had to hold down a key to look around. The WASD thing to a while to evolve.

[xcalibur]

the people writing the articles seemed to think it was slower than a gamepad. some thought it was awkward because whereas the mouse and gamepad move the entire view, the view in this case only moves when you move the cursor to the edge, other times you're leaving the screen where it's at and pointing and firing. if you need more potential problems spelled out with this scenario, i'd be glad to oblige. :D

doesn't mean they won't fix it, or that people won't get used to it, just what some people who tried it have said.


"Options", my friend, "Options". :)


-X

[ECM]

I'm still optimistic, it sounds like to me people at E3 didn't have enough time to get used to the controls. Doesn't anyone remember how strange using a mouse+keyboard to control an FPS was the first time. I remember when Quake first came out you couldn't use the mouse to look up by default because it was too confusing for people, you had to hold down a key to look around. The WASD thing to a while to evolve.

This was exactly the issue. Most people at E3 had no idea how to use the wand and were unable to do things like nail enemies with arrows in Zelda and pick off stars in Mario Galaxy. Hell, I had absolutely no problems while the person I was with looked like she was having a seizure and kept asking me "how are you doing that?!" as I ran through the Mario and Zelda demos in no time. If anything, the wand was too sensitive at E3, but it certainly was anything but innacurate or imprecise. Lousy article and/or lousy gamers.

[IndependentGMR]

I hate to sound like a Nintendo fanboy, but I doubt they would invest so much into a technology that was imprecise. They're basically banking their future in the home console market on this new way of playing. Why would they risk it, if the device wasn't accurate enough? I'm hoping the problems stem from early versions of software, not the controller itself.

[EternalGamer]

Ouch! You are aware of the IR Sensor bar that you have to place on top of your TV, right? That's going to be tough to do with a projector. I suppose you can hang it on the wall above the picture, but it ain't going to look pretty! :(


No problems, there. The Wii comes with an extra long sensor cable (and if nothing else I'm sure I"ll be able to buy an extendor of some type). I use the projector on a pull down screen. I can easily mount the sensor ontop of the pull down screen's metal casing, running the wire up the wall in a concealed place. Trust me man, I've got it covered. When I bought and set up this projector I was specifically arranging things for Wii's release day. I have even cleared out a huge space right behind the projector that is perfect for any type of crazy antics and gestures I need to do. :)

[31 Flavas]

There was plenty of skepticism, plenty of doubt prior to the release of the PSP. The difference is that people were OK with it.Right, people were OK that the PSP critisims were not heavily published. I mean it was going to advance portable gaming 10 fold!

If it did make it to print, you'd have had Sony fans derailing that critisim as harshly back them. The PSP was going to be a revolution! Optical media 1.8 GIG storage! Movies, Music, Emulators! Not to mention how advanced its games were over the DS and GBA. Oh Sony fans wouldn't let you get away with an entire 5-10 page article detailing the PSPs problems or comparing it to failed products.

For whatever reason, people don't seem to allow this same level of criticism when it comes to Nintendo.All i'm asking is that the same criticism be leveled at the competition.

You realize this is where we got Evil Avatar's (in)famous quote from, right? He was rabidly defending the PSP from criticism from Nintendo fanboys who were shining the light of day on the PSP problems.

[IndependentGMR]

I'm still optimistic, it sounds like to me people at E3 didn't have enough time to get used to the controls. Doesn't anyone remember how strange using a mouse+keyboard to control an FPS was the first time. I remember when Quake first came out you couldn't use the mouse to look up by default because it was too confusing for people, you had to hold down a key to look around. The WASD thing to a while to evolve.

That's so true. The first time I played a PC FPS, the control took some getting used to. Now, I would take a mouse & keyboard over a standard gamepad any day.

[Achilles]

All i'm asking is that the same criticism be leveled at the competition.Would you say that there were no articles published criticizing the PS3 or the 360? You seem to be hung up on the PSP, those articles existed back then too, it's just harder to go back and find them than it is the more obvious PS3 criticism that we see every day. Maybe you don't notice it because you're especially sensitive about criticism against Nintendo, but it doesn't mean there were no articles criticizing the PSP.

[Worldcrafter]

Ouch! You are aware of the IR Sensor bar that you have to place on top of your TV, right? That's going to be tough to do with a projector. I suppose you can hang it on the wall above the picture, but it ain't going to look pretty! :(
Wrong. You can put the bar above or below the TV/projector image. Pretty easy.

[EternalGamer]

Wrong. You can put the bar above or below the TV/projector image. Pretty easy.


I'm curious about how the set up will work, though. because my pull down screen, when it is all the way down, is still about 3 1/2 feet in the air. I don't think I could set the sensor bar on the ground unless it allows you to put in the distance and exact dimensions of the TV. Regardless, I'll get it working somehow. Placing it on top of the metal casing seems like the best way and it would be out of the way.

[Nessus]

Unfortuenately, I have bad inside-scoop news about the precision of the Wii controller. A good friend of mine works for a studio that is working on multiple Wii titles. Just about a week ago, he informed me that if you play in a room with windows (or any reflective surfaces), the input gets WAY screwed up. He even said that in one test he was performing, he had a glass bottle on the table in front of him, and it would pick up the bottle every so often.

He mentioned that Nintendo was hoping to add bluetooth to help resolve the times where the Wiimote gets "lost", but then E3 happened, and the spot that once had the bluetooth now contains the speaker. So, who knows what's going to come of all this.

It's kinda funny, because so many early reviewers that were granted private access to play with the system, did so in plain black rooms. No wonder the controls felt tight and responsive then.


The controller still features Bluetooth. Maybe not in the function you're describing, but Sonic Wildfire, the drum demo, and Excitetruck did not use the pointer at all.

[Worldcrafter]

I'm curious about how the set up will work, though.
Yeah. Unless you can have some space between the bottom of the screen and the sensor a number of people are going to have to come up with creative mounting solutions. Luckily for me, my projector setup has a table surface just below the image that I think will work perfectly.

[Achilles]

Yeah. Unless you can have some space between the bottom of the screen and the sensor a number of people are going to have to come up with creative mounting solutions. Luckily for me, my projector setup has a table surface just below the image that I think will work perfectly.I hear that at least for Red Steel you have to point the controller at the bar in order for it to work correctly. If your screen's 3 feet tall than the center would be 1 1/2 feet from where you're pointing the controller (as would be the case with Eternal Gamer) I wonder if the calibration would work correctly if you just calibrated it by pointing to the center of the screen instead of the bar.

[Nintendo Revolution]

My conclusion is most of the problems with the accuracy is software based. After playing a good deal of the Wii at E3, I really don't understand why others can't reach this conclusion. Some of the games played like Super Mario Galaxy and Wii Sports were suprisingly intuitive, whereas games like Red Steel and at some points, Metroid Prime 3, where lacking. It's also worth noting that games that used the accelerometer had almost no problems as far as I could tell, hardware wise anyway.

And if you want to throw the Virtual Boy into the mix, just keep in mind that while that was being developed, the Ultra 64 was also in development, and backed completely by Shigeru Miyamoto's work. If I am not mistaken, he created nothing for the Virtual Boy. Why would that be? Was Nintendo skeptical of the product from day one? Regardless, at this time Nintendo tried a similar third piller approach, but Gunpei's creation was flawed from the beginning. If you apply this situation to now, where the DS, GBA and the Wii stand, Miyamoto and Nintendo are fully backing the Wii (as well as many 3rd party companies) and the success of the GBA and DS are carrying their own momentum.

[t3kl3r]

Heh. Some would probably point you in the direction of the Virtual Boy.


This was more of an experimental system though. Not their flagship hardware.

I can already see two kids getting super pissed at one another for messing them up on the last lvl of a game because of this motion control.

Hey, at least when they start beating each other up they'll be getting exercise.

[Mr.Condescension]

I'm curious about how the set up will work, though. because my pull down screen, when it is all the way down, is still about 3 1/2 feet in the air. I don't think I could set the sensor bar on the ground unless it allows you to put in the distance and exact dimensions of the TV. Regardless, I'll get it working somehow. Placing it on top of the metal casing seems like the best way and it would be out of the way.

I would be surprised if there wasn't some sort of calibration on the games or system. You'd just have to set it wherever in front of you and then point at dots on the screen in order to calibrate where the screen is located and what its dimensions are. NW,NE,SE,SW,Center.

I hear that at least for Red Steel you have to point the controller at the bar in order for it to work correctly. If your screen's 3 feet tall than the center would be 1 1/2 feet from where you're pointing the controller (as would be the case with Eternal Gamer) I wonder if the calibration would work correctly if you just calibrated it by pointing to the center of the screen instead of the bar.

I too had heard that one problem with the interface was that you're not actually pointing at the screen at all, but rather you point at the sensor bar, wherever it is. I hope that is not the case come launch, because it could ruin the direct feedback of pointing a gun at the enemy, etc. If you aim at a sensor instead of the TV isn't it really just a mouse that you can hold in the air? (like the difference between a wacom tablet and a wacom cintiq display....one you interface with one thing while looking at another, the other you interface directly with the display device)

[EternalGamer]

I would be surprised if there wasn't some sort of calibration on the games or system. You'd just have to set it wherever in front of you and then point at dots on the screen in order to calibrate where the screen is located and what its dimensions are. NW,NE,SE,SW,Center.



I too had heard that one problem with the interface was that you're not actually pointing at the screen at all, but rather you point at the sensor bar, wherever it is. I hope that is not the case come launch, because it could ruin the direct feedback of pointing a gun at the enemy, etc. If you aim at a sensor instead of the TV isn't it really just a mouse that you can hold in the air? (like the difference between a wacom tablet and a wacom cintiq display....one you interface with one thing while looking at another, the other you interface directly with the display device)

I was imagining that the sensor would be getting info from the actual video output signal. Anyone remember those Namco lightguns for the original Playstation? You have to actually plug it into the Yellow RCA cable and then run the cable from that connector to your TV. It was quite a bit more accurate than those flash type guns on the old Nintendo and the D.C. I wouldn't think it would matter whether you were pointing at the sensor, but rather that the sensor sends info to the video output relative to where you move it. So if you point it it say, 6 inches up from the sensor, it transfers that to the video image as 6 inches up on the video output, if that makes sense. It can be all relative to the sensor, but that doesn't mean it would correspond directly or that you would have to be pointing directly at it.

[Setzer_83]

At E3 most of the games played well. There weren't any problems with the controller not being precise enough. The only problem we had was standing too close to the tv, and receiver, playing red steel, that made the controller to sensitive and jumpy.

[KSmitty]

Well call me cautiously optimistic.
A) we would have heard alot more complaints if the controls we total crap
B) there would be alot less 3rd party support if the control was crap
C) as fanboy-ish as this may sound the remote is totally new way for most to play so its probably going to take some getting used to.
I don't have my hopes set super high (way too bitter in general for that), but I am looking forward to the system and hope it does well.

@Eternal gamer
It is possible to mount the bar on your wall. There are dozens of types of wall mounts even some that can be set up so as to be 'invisible'. And if you really don't care, hell, just throw some velcro tape on there and stick it to the wall. :D

-K

[EternalGamer]

Definitely can't put it on the wall beneath the projector. There is a door there (the screen comes down over the door so you have to raise the screen to go in and out of the room). However, I can easily just set it on top of the pull down screen. There is about a 5 " wide flat surface, and I'll just run the cord up the wall (in a discret place). The only possible snag is if the cord isn't long enough, but hopefully there will be cord extensions offered.

[thecrazyd]

Definitely can't put it on the wall beneath the projector. There is a door there (the screen comes down over the door so you have to raise the screen to go in and out of the room). However, I can easily just set it on top of the pull down screen. There is about a 5 " wide flat surface, and I'll just run the cord up the wall (in a discret place). The only possible snag is if the cord isn't long enough, but hopefully there will be cord extensions offered.
Also, the cord is crazy long. Have you seen the pics? You may not even need an extension.

[EternalGamer]

Yeah, but I'd have to run it a total of about 20 feet, so it could be a problem (12 feet to the wall then up the wall about 7 feet). I'm beginning to worry now that the cord won't be long enough and I"m sure it will have a proprietary end. And sure companies make controller extensions, but who the hell is going to make a "Wii sensor extension cable" especially since most people, as you point out wont need one.

[bapenguin]

I really hope I can get the Wii to work in my theater as well. I'll need about 25-30 feet for the sensor cable as well from my equipment closet to the screen. But once it's in place I won't have to worry about moving it or anything.

[Rook34]

Heh. Some would probably point you in the direction of the Virtual Boy.
I really liked the VB and still enjoy playing it to this day.

I was waiting for that. Wario woods and Mario Tennis FTW!! ...But that's about it for it.

The virtual boy was good, but it gave some people headaches. Those people are weak and frail, and weren't meant for videogames. :D

[EternalGamer]

I really hope I can get the Wii to work in my theater as well. I'll need about 25-30 feet for the sensor cable as well from my equipment closet to the screen. But once it's in place I won't have to worry about moving it or anything.


I'm pretty sure something will work out. If nothing else, there will probably be some sort of homebrew fix somebody comes up with a la wire splicing. But I cannot WAIT to play Wii Tennis with friends on my 86" screen. All I need are a couple of light gun games and the purchase of the will be justified for those two things alone regardless of great franchise games.

[Mason]

I think the larger problem is when motion controllers are used for purposes at which other control mechanisms are superior. D-pads, analog sticks, and buttons are perfect at their specific roles, and trying to use a motion controller to mimic those roles will always make the motion controller feel slow and inaccurate.

This is why some of the Wii games seemed horribly unimpressive to me. Mario Galaxy, for example, seems to have you triggering things with certain controller motions, which is just a shallow button metaphor. Even if the controller/software are really great at reading that input, it only takes a few instances of a player having a (sloppy and imprecise) motion mis-read to convince that player that she'd probably be happier pressing a button.

The games that use screen aiming seem far more acceptable, since console controllers don't really have any form of absolute position input. Let's hope Wii devs figure out early on to can the lazy metaphorical control schemes, because on top of being boring and shallow, they'll also make the controller feel inaccurate, regardless of its technical merits.

[Chameleo]

anyone still talking about those 'leaked' Wii specs which EvAv was reporting for the stone-cold truth?

because i've seen a bunch of articles shouting HOAX!!

[GabeCube]

This is why some of the Wii games seemed horribly unimpressive to me. Mario Galaxy, for example, seems to have you triggering things with certain controller motions, which is just a shallow button metaphor.

Not true at all, at least where Mario Galaxy is concerned. Off the top of my head, there were two instances where the controller was put to great use. In one case, you had to "grapple" Mario to shiny blue dots that attracted him while floating in space. There were several around, and you had to aim and "fish" them to proceed.

A little less interesting was the concept of "slingshoting". It gets thrown around a lot in the game, even in one of the boss fights. Basically, Mario gets "stuck" on webs or some weird sticky plants and you "pull" him so he gets thrown far away. You could argue that this could be done with a secondary analog stick (as it has in other games), but it worked surprisingly more intuitive this way.

It should also be noted that Miyamoto mentioned that part of the concept of this "interactive cursor" was to encourage people to play Mario Galaxy with two people.

[MAbans]

I think what people are completely over looking is the the bigger implications of what the Nintendo Wii has done for Big N. NES came out and the big selling point was R.O.B.. How many games were for that? But people saw it as potentially being a cool thing bought it and then saw how many other cool games they had. People have stigmatized Big N into being a Kiddie system thanks to MS & Sony and most of us well informed gamers know that just isn't the truth. Nintendo made and continue to make great games. So even if you do buy the Wii for the "gimmick" of the wiimote you may just end up sticking around to play other games that are.. Well just good.. To counterpoint this article's arguement, Nintendo HAS done it and was VERY successful; the result is the industry we have now.