Wii Specs Revealed in Full [Archive]

fitbabits

07-31-2006, 10:49 AM

TheUnknownSoldier sent me an email this morning with a link to Maxconsole (http://www.maxconsole.net). Not just any link, oh no, this link contained full and detailed specs of Nintendo's Wii!

Check out the full list here (http://www.maxconsole.net/?mode=news&newsid=8802).

The Wii Hardware

- Nintendo Wii’s ‘Broadway’ CPU operates at 729MHZ with a maximum bandwith of 1.9gbyte/sec.
- Nintendo Wii’s ‘HollyWood’ GPU is clocked at 243MHZ, the internal memory of it includes 3mb of embedded graphics memory and 24megabytes of high speed main memory.
- 64megabytes of GDDR3 (MEM2) as the external main memory. Just like the internal memory, it can be accessed from the CPU and GPU with a maximum bandwidth of 4gbytes/sec and can also store programs in the MEM2.
- The GPU of the Wii is identical to the GC’s but it is on average 1.5X faster.

Wii's Optical Disc Drive

- Opitcal Disc Drive (ODD) supports single and dual layer Wii disks, discs eject with software or button and the maximum read speed is the equivalent of DVDx6.
- Two main disc types supported the single sided 12cm single sided 4.7gb and the double sided 8.51 GB. Nintendo GC discs also supported. Some of the capacity of the discs are used by the system and games can not use full disc space.
- Inserting a disc will start the Wii console, even if it was already in an off state. Pressing the eject button will change the console to an on state to take out the disc also.
Not a huge leap forward technologically speaking, but who says better hardware equals better games?

Khash

07-31-2006, 10:54 AM

Not a huge leap forward technologically speaking, but who says better hardware equals better games?
Sony... ZING!

SexualChoc

07-31-2006, 11:00 AM

It's all jargon really. The better hardware comment really sums it up. I'll base my opinion on the games, and to a lesser extenet, the controller.

UnderHero5

07-31-2006, 11:06 AM

Good. Hopefully it will be $200 bucks!
I really don't care what my games look like as long as they are fun and run at a playable speed. The GCN was a very capable machine, looks like the Wii will be just as capable.

I can't wait!

Ernst_Jager

07-31-2006, 11:07 AM

But lesser hardware doesn't equal better games either. For me I would prefer good hardware AND good games. Because if you have a good game, good graphics would only make it better.

megaman

07-31-2006, 11:10 AM

Not a huge leap forward technologically speaking, but who says better hardware equals better games?

Different versions of the same game can be better on the more powerful consoles :rolleyes:

Manzy

07-31-2006, 11:12 AM

That's pretty weak. I'll still be buying it though, if only for Super Mario Galaxy and Super Smash Brothers Brawl. I'm just glad it will be relatively cheap, if I had to pay 600 just to play those two games I would be pissed.

fitbabits

07-31-2006, 11:13 AM

But lesser hardware doesn't equal better games either. For me I would prefer good hardware AND good games. Because if you have a good game, good graphics would only make it better.
Good point, well made.

I guess it's six of one and half-a-dozen of the other. We all know that Nintendo's main aim is to provide the gamer with new and unique gameplay experiences , not high definition gaming or forcing a proprietary storage format on their loyal fans.

score

07-31-2006, 11:15 AM

- The GPU of the Wii is identical to the GC’s but it is on average 1.5X faster.

Thats a kicker. What the jack have Nintendo been up to with Ati for the last 5 years if all we're getting is the same GPU with a faster clock speed?

If this is true (as it likely is) then it sucks big time. I wasnt expecting xbox360 or ps3 graphics but a newer gpu with some new effects would have been nice....

Manzy

07-31-2006, 11:15 AM

C'mon guys. I just read the article.
"Anonymous Wii Developer?"

I wouldn't jump on this boat quite yet.

bean19

07-31-2006, 11:16 AM

This is really disappointing. . . All of these parts are already slower than the minimum parts you could buy for the most economy PC now (without buying used parts). Seriously, did they get a deal on old unsold chipsets from 2003 or something?

You guys realize that games will never be able to look better than original Xbox games on the Wii? I mean, I guess I knew this already, but it still annoys me.

fitbabits

07-31-2006, 11:17 AM

C'mon guys. I just read the article.
"Anonymous Wii Developer?"

I wouldn't jump on this boat quite yet.
Did you also read this:

*UPDATE* The dev mailed us and said he was shocked to see all these cries of 'fake', so he provided some more info to show he's not bluffing...

Broadway CPU

Broadway is Wii's CPU. Broadway functionality and specifications are as follows.

• Operating speed: 729 MHz
• Bus to main memory: 243 MHz, 64 bits (maximum bandwidth: 1.9 gigabytes/sec)
• 32-kilobyte 8-way set-associative L1 instruction cache
• 32-kilobyte 8-way set-associative L1 data cache (can set up 16-kilobyte data scratch pad)
• Superscalar microprocessor with six execution units (floating-point unit, branching unit, system regis
ter unit, load/store unit, two integer units)
• DMA unit (15-entry DMA request queue) used by 16-kilobyte data scratch pad
• Write-gather buffer for writing graphics command lists to the graphics chip
• Onboard 256-kilobyte 2-way set-associative L2 integrated cache
• Two, 32-bit integer units (IU)
• One floating point unit (FPU) (supports single precision (32-bit) and double precision (64-bit))
• The FPU supports paired single floating point (FP/PS)
• The FPU supports paired single multiply add (ps_madd). Most FP/PS instructions can be issued in
each cycle and completed in three cycles.
• Fixed-point to floating-point conversion can be performed at the same time as FPU register load and
store, with no loss in performance.
• The branch unit supports static branch prediction and dynamic branch prediction.
• When an instruction is stalled on data, the next instruction can be issued and executed. All instructions
maintain program logic and will complete in the correct program order.
• Supports three L2 cache fetch modes: 32-Byte, 64-Byte, and 128-Byte.
• Supports these bus pipeline depth levels: level 2, level 3, and level 4.
Reference Information: Broadway is upward compatible with Nintendo GameCube’s CPU (Gekko).

Hollywood GPU

Hollywood is a system LSI composed of a GPU and internal main memory (MEM1). Hollywood is clocked at 243 MHz. Its internal memory consists of 3 megabytes of embedded graphics memory and 24 megabytes of high speed main memory.

Hollywood includes the following.
• Graphics processing unit (with 3 megabytes of eDRAM)
• Audio DSP
• I/O Bridge
• 24 megabytes of internal main memory
• Internal main memory operates at 486 MHz.
Maximum bandwidth between Hollywood and internal main memory: 3.9 gigabytes per second
• Possible to locate a program here
Reference Information: Hollywood is similar to Nintendo GameCube’s Flipper and Splash components.

External Main Memory (MEM2)

Wii uses 64 megabytes of GDDR3 (MEM2) as external main memory. Like internal main memory, MEM2 can be accessed directly from Broadway and the GPU at high speed and has a peak bandwidth of 4 gigabytes/sec. Programs can also be placed in MEM2.

Reference Information: Nintendo GameCube ARAM is used as auxiliary memory for the DSP. The CPU and GPU did not have direct access to it.
I don't recall any of that information being widely available outside of the development community.

Serapth

07-31-2006, 11:18 AM

If these are infact the specs, the rumour of it being "slightly more powerful than an Xbox" seem to be true.

Thoughts RMan? ;)

Manzy

07-31-2006, 11:22 AM

Did you also read this:

I don't recall any of that information being widely available outside of the development community.

True, but it's also plausible for some tech junkie to pull it out of his ass for kicks, right? I mean I know there's people that would waste their time on hoaxes.

TheBrainKills

07-31-2006, 11:22 AM

bean19: Yes we all know that comparing a PC to a game specific console is the smart thing to do.

They didn't just add a bit of MHZ to the chips people; they added, optimized, refined and jujued it.

OSX

07-31-2006, 11:24 AM

I just like to think about the load times on the GC. Its main CPU was something like 425 mhz. This is almost double of that with a far more advanced chip. I dont think loading is going to exsist on this system, and if it does, it wont be anything like the 360. That could be cool.

The Great Gatsby

07-31-2006, 11:24 AM

Man, I can't wait for the graphics whores to start chiming in with their two cents. Should make for some good times indeed.

fitbabits

07-31-2006, 11:24 AM

True, but it's also plausible for some tech junkie to pull it out of his ass for kicks, right? I mean I know there's people that would waste their time on hoaxes.
While it's possible, I think it very unlikely that someone would make this shit up.

Syl

07-31-2006, 11:24 AM

If the specs are that low, even if they market it at $200 they're going to make a huge profit. It's essentially a slightly overclocked gamecube with a little bit more RAM - Considering they make a profit on those $99 cubes, theres no way that this isn't a profitable hardware choice, albeit a slightly dissapointing one.

mkelehan

07-31-2006, 11:26 AM

But here's the great thing: when you're doing 480p and only 2.1 sound in realtime, those specs are quite simply all you need. And most people, like it or not, are still running 480i.

Manzy

07-31-2006, 11:27 AM

While it's possible, I think it very unlikely that someone would make this shit up.

I guess I'm just skeptical about how weak it is. I'm just not gonna believe it yet till it's official.

EternalGamer

07-31-2006, 11:29 AM

bean19: Yes we all know that comparing a PC to a game specific console is the smart thing to do.

They didn't just add a bit of MHZ to the chips people; they added, optimized, refined and jujued it.

Well aside from the optimization, anybody willing to tell me where I can get one of these "economy" PCs for under $199? You are talking double that price at least.

In any event, people are obviously right that more powerful hardware always grants you more potential. But for games not attempting a photo-realistic aesthetic, these specs will probably be more than adequate. And I do think it is likely that, since the Wii won't be as much in that graphical rat race, developers will be encouraged to come up with unique gameplay mechanicism and concepts in order to "sell" their product to the consumer. Ultimately this is a good thing for us gamers because most of us will probably buy at least one of the other Next Gen systems and we don't really need 3 systems that all do the same thing. It's nice that one is probably going to encourage (via its archeticture) innovation as the selling point for its library of games over technically impressive visuals (note I said nothing about artistically impressive visuals).

Deadend

07-31-2006, 11:31 AM

I am kinda disapointed about the lack of RAM, as that will hold back some ambitous concepts, not just graphics.

Zaro

07-31-2006, 11:31 AM

bean19: Yes we all know that comparing a PC to a game specific console is the smart thing to do.

They didn't just add a bit of MHZ to the chips people; they added, optimized, refined and jujued it.

That's what i think. And with these thing optimize and refine, i think the Wii can be 2 or 3 time what the gamecube was. It's not big but that's what nintendo said.

thecrazyd

07-31-2006, 11:34 AM

You guys realize that games will never be able to look better than original Xbox games on the Wii? I mean, I guess I knew this already, but it still annoys me.
I disagree. This is more powerfull than the Xbox, and Nintendo has always been able to pull off miracles with lesser hardware.

Dabombpizza

07-31-2006, 11:34 AM

I'm still a Wii Fanboi, but those specs are underwhelming.

fitbabits

07-31-2006, 11:35 AM

I guess I'm just skeptical about how weak it is. I'm just not gonna believe it yet till it's official.
Cool beans. I guess it pays sometimes to have an element of skepticism where videogames are concerned. Just don't let that skepticism infiltrate your everyday life! ;)

bean19

07-31-2006, 11:36 AM

bean19: Yes we all know that comparing a PC to a game specific console is the smart thing to do.

They didn't just add a bit of MHZ to the chips people; they added, optimized, refined and jujued it.

The comparison is to the fact that you CAN'T GET CHIPS THIS OLD FOR THE PC. . . even economy chips are faster than this right? The point is that the technology seems to be behind the minimum production standards now. . . Why would they choose use a processor and GPU that seems antique?

Oh well, I also compared it to other consoles. . . It compares directly to the original Xbox, very similar specs.

kid cabelgo

07-31-2006, 11:40 AM

you've gotta realize that the wii isn't an HD system. That seriously reduces the need for super powerful hardware.

And did anyone remember RE4 on the GC? If that is the graphical starting point for the wii, I'm not worried.

I do think the Wii will show it's age graphically much quicker than the other consoles. The disparity between PC graphics and the Wii's will be really dramatic in a few years. But like others have said, the wii has way more important things going for it than graphics.

Cool AN

07-31-2006, 11:44 AM

But lesser hardware doesn't equal better games either. For me I would prefer good hardware AND good games. Because if you have a good game, good graphics would only make it better.

I agree. For the most part graphics don't equal a good game. But they defiantly don't hurt.

TheBrainKills

07-31-2006, 11:45 AM

The comparison is to the fact that you CAN'T GET CHIPS THIS OLD FOR THE PC. . . even economy chips are faster than this right? The point is that the technology seems to be behind the minimum production standards now. . . Why would they choose use a processor and GPU that seems antique?

Oh well, I also compared it to other consoles. . . It compares directly to the original Xbox, very similar specs.

A large part of it is the size of the chips, heat output, power requirements etc.
Hell they may not even need a fan on this thing. Antique? please explain that one to me. What feature is antique?

edit: ahhh must be the:

• Onboard 256-kilobyte 2-way set-associative L2 integrated cache

I mean "L2 integrated cache" is so 90's

Kamalot

07-31-2006, 11:45 AM

Different versions of the same game can be better on the more powerful consoles :rolleyes:
So, don't buy ports on Wii, only buy Wii original games.

Anyone buying Wii for multiplatform titles is dumb.

EternalGamer

07-31-2006, 11:47 AM

I disagree. This is more powerfull than the Xbox, and Nintendo has always been able to pull off miracles with lesser hardware.

This is true. Twiligh Princess looks absolutely gorgeous, and this is on Gamecube hardware. Nintendo has said there is no difference between the two versions, graphically.

But basically, good art design is no longer determined by hardware. Sure, if a company tries to do something the Hardware is uncapable of then the games will look like crap, but if they work within the given hardware's capabilities, they can still make aesthetically beautiful games that will never be "outdated." Games like Rez and Wind Waker will always look great and no technology will change that because it's their art direction that make them look so.

I was playing Crystal Chronicles on my Cube on a huge screen a few nights ago and I was amazed by some of the details I was noticing. Things like the little moths that float above the candle light on the desks in Moschet Manor, or the way the character does this little "lasso" type animation when he is charging up a spell and then "flings" it out when you release it (literally "casting" a spell). I've played this game for almost 50 hours now and I am still noticing little details like that which I love. Graphics of current gen (or in Wii's case somewhat better than current gen) are good enough to provide very satifying and even impressive details.

mulligan

07-31-2006, 11:47 AM

• Write-gather buffer for writing graphics command lists to the graphics chip

OHH me likes!!

• Fixed-point to floating-point conversion can be performed at the same time as FPU register load and store, with no loss in performance.

so I can convert fixed point data into flotating point data, while the fpu registers loads and writes my stuff and I dont get those nasty slowdowns? go nintendo!

• The branch unit supports static branch prediction and dynamic branch prediction.

I dont remeber this being on gekko, I could be wrong, but this is good stuff..

what I want is more GPU details, is it fixed? because the videos on mario galaxy show some neat texturing ops wich means at least some texture shading capabilities, and everyone remebers that crazy framebuffer stuff on metroid prime, I think that has been enhanced! more GPU details!!

Norse

07-31-2006, 11:47 AM

I buy the Wii to play "typical" Nintendo games and they don't need fancy graphics anyway. I don't buy it to play fancy FPS, RPGs, racing games or fighting games. I got a X360 for that. FPS needs good gfx to interest me these days and judging by the specs and Red Steel screenshots the Wii won't do, but it's not a big loss. As long as I get Super Mario, Mario Kart and fun party games I'm happy.

Bone

07-31-2006, 11:48 AM

phantomhitman

07-31-2006, 11:51 AM

Not a huge leap forward technologically speaking, but who says better hardware equals better games?
phantomhitman does

fitbabits

07-31-2006, 11:52 AM

phantomhitman does
Then phantomhitman is wrong! :)

BTW, didn't you throw the gaming gauntlet down to me some time ago? Whatever happend to that?

Metal Jesus

07-31-2006, 11:53 AM

phantomhitman

07-31-2006, 11:56 AM

Then phantomhitman is wrong! :)

BTW, didn't you throw the gaming gauntlet down to me some time ago? Whatever happend to that?
yes, did you ever pick up college hoops? I wanted to rent it to try it out first but my local place never got a copy of it in. If you got it I am willing to buy it, I seen a used copy for $29 I think. Let me know.
Other games we can pwn each other in
cod2
graw
battlefield 2
pgr 3
take your pic soccer boy :eek:

DeadScreenSky

07-31-2006, 11:56 AM

No surprises, but the system better not cost $250. Honestly even $200 is too much - the GC saw release for that price (as did the SNES, NES, and N64) but it was on a similar hardware level with its competition.

I disagree. This is more powerfull than the Xbox, and Nintendo has always been able to pull off miracles with lesser hardware.
Any examples of this? Nintendo certainly hasn't made the best looking games on either of their last two consoles. In fact aside from Metroid Prime I would argue their GC games were all fairly homely - yes, including Twilight Princess, though that does seem to be a huge improvement on EAD's normal work. A lot of their work looked like N64 ports with better framerates (which to be fair, it often was: Animal Crossing, Kirby's Air Ride, etc.).

They do create fairly efficient hardware, though, so somebody should be able to take advantage of it.

EternalGamer

07-31-2006, 11:56 AM

Take a moment to compare the Gamecube's specs to the original Xbox. Then remember how close the Gamecube was to the Xbox's performance- closer than the raw numbers would have suggested. Optimization is everything, and clock speeds are really nothing until they are benchmarked.

If they actually doubled the benchmarkable specs of the Gamecube, I'll be pretty damn happy with my Wii.

I think the fact that people would be hardpressed to tell the difference between the graphic capabilities of the Gamecube and Xbox are significant here. The real reason it was hard to tell the difference may not be due to "optimization" but due to the fact that both were powerful enough for the game designers to implement their given visions.

A good comparison would be to compare "artwork" in other media. More detail is not always better. In comics or drawing, sometimes you can add so much detail that the end result is marred. Sometimes simplistic, cleaner looks are prefered. Someone else mentioned that they wouldn't buy a Wii for RPGs, but if you are talking about anime-inspired RPGs, the Wii is certainly powerful enough to pull of that aesthetic. Anime style is generally much more clean and simplistic looks with exgerated features (eyes etc.). You don't need more powerful hardware to make a game in that style look impressive. All you need is a good art team.

digitalErich

07-31-2006, 11:57 AM

I usually don't like getting in to these hardware discussions, but as a person who studied this sort of thing in college, I can't help but remind ppl of this when it comes up...

Mhz is a useless metric when comaring different architectures. Never use Mhz/Ghz for a comparison unless you are talking about [very] similar chip architecures. In the world of microprocessors 600 is not always faster than 300. It's like saying car A is faster because the engine is 10 inches longer than car B. While it might be true that car A is faster 60% of the time, there is really more to it than engine size.

This has nothing to do with the Wii at all and how fast or slow is might be, but ppl are seeing numbers and specs and are posting based on uninformed assumptions.

TheBrainKills

07-31-2006, 11:59 AM

fitbabits

07-31-2006, 11:59 AM

yes, did you ever pick up college hoops? I wanted to rent it to try it out first but my local place never got a copy of it in. If you got it I am willing to buy it, I seen a used copy for $29 I think. Let me know.
Other games we can pwn each other in
cod2
graw
battlefield 2
pgr 3
take your pic soccer boy :eek:
I just sent you a Friends Request...

I don't have College Hoops, but I was planning on picking it up this week along with Quake 4 and Ridge Racer 6. I'll keep you posted.

Back on topic - Wii specs...

Serapth

07-31-2006, 12:01 PM

So, don't buy ports on Wii, only buy Wii original games.

Anyone buying Wii for multiplatform titles is dumb.

Nasty cause and effect scenario there. People wont buy Wii, because Wii doesnt have 3rd party support. Developers wont make games for Wii because they dont sell because " buying Wii for multiplatform titles is dumb".

Sounds exactly like the Gamecube. Im not saying this is going to happen, im saying if you want to see the Wii being a success, you really shouldnt take that attitude.

EternalGamer

07-31-2006, 12:01 PM

Those specs are disappointing... and I for one love it when a game is GORGEOUS to look at. I just bought a new BIG HDTV for my living room, and DAMN those Xbox 360 games look AMAZING on it!

Don't get me wrong, I still occasionally play C64 games... but the amazing graphics, more complex AI and gameplay provided by more powerful hardware is ultimately more to my liking.:P

Play some of the better looking Gamecube games on your new TV and you'd probably be pretty surprised at just how damn good they look at 480p (if you have the component cable). As I mentioned in another thread, I have been playing alot of Oblivion single player and Crystal Chronicles co-op lately. Even after hours of Oblivion, I can still completely appreciate Crystal Chronicles style. The artwork truly is beautiful. I love the game's gypsy aesthetic. The look is a mix between a "Victorian" and an "Old West" motiff accentuated by a beautiful pastel world. It's a joy to look at.

We really need to make a distinction here. Beautiful games do not always mean "technically impressive" games. The two things are not necessarily one in the same. The first is always desired, the second is only desired in so far as it leads to the first.

Zaro

07-31-2006, 12:02 PM

Michel Ancel said this: "We did a lot of good looking games on this generation of graphics processors," he explained to Nintendo Power. "The Wii hardware is more powerful than those, so that's good enough for us."

That's enough for me.

Flatpicker

07-31-2006, 12:04 PM

I have no problem with the clock speeds. It just needs more memory. They should have doubled the RAM.

mulligan

07-31-2006, 12:04 PM

The same reason people still think an Pentium 4 2.0 GHZ its faster than an Athlon XP at 1.8 GHz, this is just a theoricall metric of performance, they are MANY factors that dictate how an architecture will behave including A) bandwidth between components, C) Cache acces times C) Intructions per Second D)Memory Management and a multitude of other stuff.

The Wii hardware is VERY efficient and developers can confirm that the GC's texture capabilities are almost onpar with the xbox's on last gen, and now we get an even more efficient architecture and you deemed it as "inferior" >?

This is in no way close to the PS3 or the X360, but trust me the power is there to use, all we need is good devs who can figuere it out, and stop bloating their code with non usefull cycles.

Speed_D

07-31-2006, 12:06 PM

I'll jump on that boat just because I don't feel like spending $600+ on a console. I'd rather buy a Wii with a bunch of games that are actually fun to play and not just tech demos. And the controller is cool too.

NoName

07-31-2006, 12:09 PM

Ah, all this talk about detailed hardware architecture reminds me of my assembly class. Now that was a fun language to code in ^_^.

But yea, I'll jump on the "don't trust the Hz numbers alone" bandwidth. Nintendo's being smart this generation, have faith.

bean19

07-31-2006, 12:09 PM

Well, we already knew that the game would look like original Xbox games. This isn't news. We've seen freaking gameplay videos even. I don't know why I was so disappointed that the system is so weak.

I guess there was a part of me that thought that it would look like this generation's little brother. . . not like it is a generation behind.

Fyd

07-31-2006, 12:15 PM

Well its more powerfull than a gamecube :); and resident evil 4 really looks great :D

Zeal

07-31-2006, 12:21 PM

Absolutely pathetic and embarassing.

DanAmerson

07-31-2006, 12:21 PM

Ah, all this talk about detailed hardware architecture reminds me of my assembly class. Now that was a fun language to code in ^_^.

Can we talk about your definition of fun? While I do enjoy optimizing a bit of code. I'm very excited that I can generally leave assembly behind.

dba

TheBrainKills

07-31-2006, 12:22 PM

fitbabits

07-31-2006, 12:24 PM

Absolutely pathetic and embarassing.
Dear Zeal,

I know life can be rough at times, but there's really no need for you to talk about yourself in such a manner. Do you need a hug?

Sincerely,
fitbabits

:p

TheBrainKills

07-31-2006, 12:24 PM

Absolutely pathetic and embarassing.

Come on man, you can do better than that. You are embarassing yourself.

Mozgus

07-31-2006, 12:24 PM

fitbabits

07-31-2006, 12:25 PM

...you naysayers can shut your fucking throat holes.
For the win! :D

31 Flavas

07-31-2006, 12:26 PM

Absolutely pathetic and embarassing.Yayaya we can rest asured now. This thread and Nintendo has been offically Zeal'd!

But just in case you're worried, here is Nintendo's official status (http://www.nintendo.com/status) .

Zurik

07-31-2006, 12:26 PM

I don't think the graphics are going to be the killer for the Wii. If what I've been hearing about the remote's tracking is true, that's what'll hurt the system. As long as Nintendo is ironing out that, it should be a fun second system. I'm going to go in expecting Gamecube like support and success, and if its any better than that I'll be happily surprised!

EternalGamer

07-31-2006, 12:30 PM

I challenge anyone to build a PC that can run games as graphically impressive as the Wii's lineup, without spending anymore then $200, and without exceeding the Wii's physical dimensions.

Until someone can accomplish this feat, you naysayers can shut your fucking throat holes.

More importantly, come up with hardware that includes a gyroscopic controller with sensor and pointer capabilities. I believe we heard reports from Nintendo that the controller was the most expensive single component.

thecrazyd

07-31-2006, 12:30 PM

Nasty cause and effect scenario there. People wont buy Wii, because Wii doesnt have 3rd party support. Developers wont make games for Wii because they dont sell because " buying Wii for multiplatform titles is dumb".

Sounds exactly like the Gamecube. Im not saying this is going to happen, im saying if you want to see the Wii being a success, you really shouldnt take that attitude.
Except it is getting plenty of third party support, just not so many multiplatform titles. Lots of companies are making new games specifically for it.

Serapth

07-31-2006, 12:36 PM

Except it is getting plenty of third party support, just not so many multiplatform titles. Lots of companies are making new games specifically for it.

Have you heard that? Most of the 3rd party support sounded mostly like ports to me. EA announced like 6 games, but 5 I believe were NFS/Madden, etc... type games. Ditto for titles like Tony Hawk. They are special versions taking advantage of the controller, but in essense are ports.

Outside of a handful of games like Red Steel, everything sounded like a port to me. Perhaps I simply havent seen these non-port titles or they havent been announced yet.

thecrazyd

07-31-2006, 12:38 PM

Have you heard that? Most of the 3rd party support sounded mostly like ports to me. EA announced like 6 games, but 5 I believe were NFS/Madden, etc... type games. Ditto for titles like Tony Hawk. They are special versions taking advantage of the controller, but in essense are ports.

Outside of a handful of games like Red Steel, everything sounded like a port to me. Perhaps I simply havent seen these non-port titles or they havent been announced yet.
I think you are considering new entries in a franchise to be ports.

DeadScreenSky

07-31-2006, 12:39 PM

I challenge anyone to build a PC that can run games as graphically impressive as the Wii's lineup, without spending anymore then $200, and without exceeding the Wii's physical dimensions.

Until someone can accomplish this feat, you naysayers can shut your fucking throat holes.
It's slightly bigger admittedly, but a Gamecube only costs $99 last time I checked. ;)

Kelegacy

07-31-2006, 12:39 PM

I disagree. This is more powerfull than the Xbox, and Nintendo has always been able to pull off miracles with lesser hardware.
I'm having fun with my DS and don't complain about graphics. I know it's a handheld, but I agree--Nintendo don't need no soopa power to fun game make.

But with these specs, Nintendo is going to turn a monster profit if the Wii sells even marginally well.

Serapth

07-31-2006, 12:40 PM

I think you are considering new entries in a franchise to be ports.

Well, I consider anything that hits multiple consoles a port.

Plays4Pants

07-31-2006, 12:41 PM

I agree. For the most part graphics don't equal a good game. But they defiantly don't hurt.

They do hurt and here's why -

Better graphics equals more work on the graphics...and less work on the gameplay. Thus...games lately have sucked. And thus, retro gaming is big. It also keeps the creative little-company out of business.

shnastybiznastic

07-31-2006, 12:42 PM

Oh well, I also compared it to other consoles. . . It compares directly to the original Xbox, very similar specs.
A common misconception.

The Xbox sported a 733 MHz modified Pentium 3 (coppermine core, I believe), and only had the instruction sets native to the P3. These instruction sets are not exactly designed around running games.

This (possibly dubious) announcement puts the Wii at a 729 MHz modified PPC. PPC processors, clock for clock, tend to spank the ever loving fuck out of x86 processors (the arcitechture that comprises 486s and their derivitives). Not only that, but the instruction sets for PPC are much more conducive to game design.

Hell, lets not get technical. Look at it this way, the Gamecube was able to meet and in some cases exceed the graphical level produced by the Xbox in a smaller space, with a slower cpu and gpu. Processor speed means absoloutley nothing in game consoles.

And to all the people complaining about the ram, everything on the cube was done in 42 megabytes of ram. Total.

If anything, I think the Wii will shove developers toward games with better art direction as opposed to technically better graphics.

Kamalot

07-31-2006, 12:42 PM

Nasty cause and effect scenario there. People wont buy Wii, because Wii doesnt have 3rd party support. Developers wont make games for Wii because they dont sell because " buying Wii for multiplatform titles is dumb".

Sounds exactly like the Gamecube. Im not saying this is going to happen, im saying if you want to see the Wii being a success, you really shouldnt take that attitude.
WRONG!

3rd Party support is VERY different than ports. Don't buy 3rd party ports. DO buy 3rd party original titles.

Plays4Pants

07-31-2006, 12:42 PM

Let's now look at the disappointing specs of the DS. That system is a total flop!

Mike Jones

07-31-2006, 12:43 PM

Kamalot

07-31-2006, 12:46 PM

Let's now look at the disappointing specs of the DS. That system is a total flop!
OMG! You are right! I bet PSP kicks the DS' ass and takes handheld gaming out of the ghetto!

EternalGamer

07-31-2006, 12:50 PM

I'm having fun with my DS and don't complain about graphics. I know it's a handheld, but I agree--Nintendo don't need no soopa power to fun game make.

But with these specs, Nintendo is going to turn a monster profit if the Wii sells even marginally well.

While I definitely think they will turn a profit, I don't think it's as great as you might first expect. Don't forget about the controller technology.

And my argument is a little different. It isn't that I don't think the Wii needs "soopa graphics," it is that "soopa graphics" don't even require hardware advancement anymore, especially when discussing games with certain aesthetics. Crystal Chronicles art design on the Cube is a fantastic combination of Victorian and Old West themes combined with a pastel color pallet and the results are beautiful.

Judging the quality of a games graphic design based upon how technically impressive they are is like judging the the intelligence of a writer by the number of big syllabled words and commas they use in their sentences. Sure you can write intelligent prose that includes big words and lots of commas, but those things in and of themselves do not make the writing "smart." Similarly, technical superiority does not automatically mean "better" graphics. This is a point so many people seem to miss. Nobody looks at Monet and says "well clearly is paintings are inferior because he only uses 300 colors whereas Renoir used 512.

This type of short sighted thinking of technology being superior just for its own sake needs to go far far away. If you think that everything "new" or technologically improved is automatically better, then you are the perfect sucker for every company that has ever existed as all them wish to convince you of just that--that their products are better than what you currently have just because they are more new or "more technologically advanced." If you never stop to ask what those phrases actually mean and how if these "improvements" really do improve something, then you are a blind lemming.

EternalGamer

07-31-2006, 12:51 PM

Yep..as I suspected. Basically a Gamecube with a new controller. It's sad that Nintendo knew a gimmicky controller wouldn't fly with devs on the Gamecube so they created the Wii so they would HAVE to make games that use it.

You appeared a lot less stupid when you were just plaguerizing other people's writing. You should go back to doing that. At least then your post demonstrated some type of interesting and intelligent thought.

Mike Jones

07-31-2006, 12:56 PM

You appeared a lot less stupid when you were just plaguerizing other people's writing. You should go back to doing that. At least then your post demonstrated some type of interesting and intelligent thought.

So Wii isn't an overpriced Gamecube peripheral? If you say so.

fitbabits

07-31-2006, 01:01 PM

So Wii isn't an overpriced Gamecube peripheral? If you say so.
ding ding ding ding!

At least he has his own opinions and doesn't steal other's and pass them off as his own!

RMan

07-31-2006, 01:08 PM

When the info comes from ATI, Nintendo, or some kind of credible source, it may be interesting. Otherwise, waste of time.

Mozgus

07-31-2006, 01:08 PM

It's slightly bigger admittedly, but a Gamecube only costs $99 last time I checked. ;)
Gamecubes run Windows now? This is news to my ass. Share the link with me.

Wyrm

07-31-2006, 01:12 PM

ding ding ding ding!

At least he has his own opinions and doesn't steal other's and pass them off as his own!

Didn't you forget the /sarcasm?

:D

thecrazyd

07-31-2006, 01:20 PM

Well, I consider anything that hits multiple consoles a port.
Well, Tony Hawk Downhill jam is not hitting multiple consoles. Neither is the Wii version of CoD. Sports games may have the same names, but they are very different games on the Wii.

tombofsoldier

07-31-2006, 01:22 PM

Serapth

07-31-2006, 01:24 PM

Well, Tony Hawk Downhill jam is not hitting multiple consoles. Neither is the Wii version of CoD. Sports games may have the same names, but they are very different games on the Wii.

We hope!

How much do you trust EA to "get it right" when dealing with ports? Neversoft even less, as we were shown with the terrible XBox 360 ports of GUN and THUG.

Until games actually start coming out, I have trouble believing that alot of these 3rd party games will be much more then ports with a control scheme slapped on. Guess im just jaded that way.

cppcrusader

07-31-2006, 01:27 PM

I have no problem with the clock speeds. It just needs more memory. They should have doubled the RAM.

They did already, in fact they doubled it and then some. The total memory for the Wii is 91MB whereas the Cube was 40MB.

thecrazyd

07-31-2006, 01:28 PM

We hope!

How much do you trust EA to "get it right" when dealing with ports? Neversoft even less, as we were shown with the terrible XBox 360 ports of GUN and THUG.

Until games actually start coming out, I have trouble believing that alot of these 3rd party games will be much more then ports with a control scheme slapped on. Guess im just jaded that way.
Watch the gameplay videos, hell even check out the screenshots. They are very different games.

Flatpicker

07-31-2006, 01:29 PM

91mb in 2006 still isn't much.
512mb unified would have been awesome.

RMan

07-31-2006, 01:31 PM

Thoughts RMan? ;)
Yes, I think it's pointless to discuss. Without the mention of shader model, we have to assume it's not using one, or doesn’t support programmable shaders? That'd be far harder for ATI to make these days, since all their products are using the programmable pipeline. Keep in mind, to have specs that detailed he’d have to be under NDA, so you can choose to believe what is either a disgruntled developer, a liar, or at the very best someone with poor ethics. Regardless, I’ll wait for something resembling reliable information, cause I do not believe for one second that the GPU is just an overclocked 5 year old part. I would believe that it’s only 1.5 times faster when running GC designed code (in that case it wouldn’t need to be more than 1X faster), but that’s not remotely the same thing.

Kamalot

07-31-2006, 01:36 PM

They also should have included a hard drive, having the virtual console without a hard drive is a huge mistake.You DO know that it has 512 MB of internal memory for saving your virtual console games, right?

You do know that it has an SD card slot so you can add your own SD cards, right?

EternalGamer

07-31-2006, 01:36 PM

What I don't get is why they made the GPU so wimpy, for an extra $5 to production costs they probably could have made it 2.5x the GCs power. They also should have included a hard drive, having the virtual console without a hard drive is a huge mistake.

Dude, do you realize how cheap flash memory is nowdays and how small these older games are? Around $30 would get you all the memory space you would ever need for older games plus room for gamesaves. And the best part is, you probably already have some lying around your house. I know I have some from my digital camera which I never use.

I have 1GB, which given that I have every NES rom ever created and the file size is only 56 MB, I would say 1GB is a shit ton more than I will ever need for the Wii. 1GB would probably be able to hold the entire library of games for the NES, SNES, Genesis, Turbographx and N64 combined. Flash memory is cheap, widely available, non-proprietary and kicks ass. It's probably the best desigin they made in regards to their hardware choices.

Serapth

07-31-2006, 01:37 PM

Yes, I think it's pointless to discuss. Without the mention of shader model, we have to assume it's not using one, or doesn’t support programmable shaders? That'd be far harder for ATI to make these days, since all their products are using the programmable pipeline. Keep in mind, to have specs that detailed he’d have to be under NDA, so you can choose to believe what is either a disgruntled developer, a liar, or at the very best someone with poor ethics. Regardless, I’ll wait for something resembling reliable information, cause I do not believe for one second that the GPU is just an overclocked 5 year old part. I would believe that it’s only 1.5 times faster when running GC designed code (in that case it wouldn’t need to be more than 1X faster), but that’s not remotely the same thing.

Personally, I just dont imagine Nintendo would release a machine at these specs. However, this rumour is being damned persistant. Except the 3x faster then the GC comment Nintendo made ages back, this is the one I keep hearing.

Kamalot

07-31-2006, 01:38 PM

Dude, do you realize how cheap flash memory is nowdays and how small these older games are? Around $30 would get you all the memory space you would ever need for older games plus room for gamesaves. And the best part is, you probably already have some lying around your house. I know I have some from my digital camera which I never use. I have 1GB, which given that I have every NES rom ever created and the file size is only 56 MB, I would say 1GB is a shit ton more than I will ever need for the Wii. Flash memory kicks ass.
Quoted for truth.

Also, Flash memory will drop in price over the lifespan of Wii. Today, you can get 2GB for less than $60. Three years from now, you'll be able to get a TON of memory.

You do know that Wii has USB ports for use with external hard drives, right?

RMan

07-31-2006, 01:54 PM

However, this rumour is being damned persistant. Except the 3x faster then the GC comment Nintendo made ages back, this is the one I keep hearing.
Looks like the common internet rumor mill to me. I think the 3X faster than the GC sounds reasonable, you have to remember, the GC was designed to be cheap from the beginning, I've heard all kinds of rumors about what the machine cost, and I won't mention them because I don't think they're credible, but the figures are always really low. In short, I think just like the GC, they want the machine to be cheap to make, so assuming they're going to pay a similar amount, or even somewhat less this time around, they still should be able to easily get a 3X boost in pure speed (I mean, we’re talking about a 5 year gap), and automatically benefit from the feature advancements that will be available in the hardware they buy (the biggest of which being the programmable shaders and possibly physics integration from ATI). I've got plenty of experience with programmable vs. fixed function pipeline and trust me, even SM2 support is a wildly significant improvement over FF, or even SM1.X (until SM2, shaders were a mess IMO). With a 3X faster machine and at least SM2 support, artists and designers will have no problem bringing their visions to the platform (EternalGamer has talked about that plenty, see his posts regarding the importance of art vs. hardware specs).

thenefariousone

07-31-2006, 01:57 PM

The funny thing about the Wii is, you could easily end up buying a bunch of games that are tech demos - tech demos for the controller.

I'll jump on that boat just because I don't feel like spending $600+ on a console. I'd rather buy a Wii with a bunch of games that are actually fun to play and not just tech demos. And the controller is cool too.

Why does everyone assume Wii = RE4 graphics? That game was an exception, not the rule.

you've gotta realize that the wii isn't an HD system. That seriously reduces the need for super powerful hardware.

And did anyone remember RE4 on the GC? If that is the graphical starting point for the wii, I'm not worried.

DoubleUranium

07-31-2006, 02:02 PM

91mb in 2006 still isn't much.
512mb unified would have been awesome.

And it will still be only 91mb in 2010. Ouch.

Kamalot

07-31-2006, 02:04 PM

And it will still be only 91mb in 2010. Ouch.
But it will be enough to make great Wii games.

Shifteh

07-31-2006, 02:07 PM

Once I saw Call of Duty 2 on the 360, I realised how little machines specs mattered for visuals. The game looked so goddamn awful I wouldn't have cared if they said it had four top of the line PC's inside it.

shnastybiznastic

07-31-2006, 02:08 PM

91mb in 2006 still isn't much.
512mb unified would have been awesome.
So I guess you arent an electronic engineer or a programmer.

Unified RAM sucks a dick because everything has to use it. take a given memory throughput, say... 3Gbps. That's shit hot if you have one process reading and writing to the ram, but say it's unified, and you have some AI in your game. well, that's at least two concurrent threads. knock your throughput down to 1.5Gbps. Wait, your GPU uses this ram too, kick that down to .75Gbps. And you have several AI threads, and your GPU code isn't a tech demo, knock it down to about .35Gbps.

Split RAM sounds bad because it means you can't have a single 128MB file in there, but it also means that you don't have to share the bandwidth with everything else that's going on.

RMan

07-31-2006, 02:09 PM

Why does everyone assume Wii = RE4 graphics? That game was an exception, not the rule.
When you’re discussing what hardware can do, the best looking game on a platform expresses the minimum capabilities of the platform. In short, every game could look as good as RE4 (perhaps better) if the developers had the resources and desire to do so.

shnastybiznastic

07-31-2006, 02:16 PM

<a bunch of top posting>
Don't top post. Top posting looks like this:

<my thoughts on the subject of a quote>
<the actual quote the above is based on>
It's hard to read. Try and do it the other way around:

<a quote>
<what I think about the quote>

kthxbye

DeadScreenSky

07-31-2006, 02:20 PM

Gamecubes run Windows now? This is news to my ass. Share the link with me.
Did you honestly misunderstand that I was making a joke (admittedly a not particularly funny one), or are you just being a dick?

And you were just talking about this 'PC' being able to run Wii level games - that was the only stated requirement. You could presumably get Linux running on a GC if you really cared about it being a PC.

So I guess you arent an electronic engineer or a programmer.

Unified RAM sucks a dick because everything has to use it. take a given memory throughput, say... 3Gbps. That's shit hot if you have one process reading and writing to the ram, but say it's unified, and you have some AI in your game. well, that's at least two concurrent threads. knock your throughput down to 1.5Gbps. Wait, your GPU uses this ram too, kick that down to .75Gbps. And you have several AI threads, and your GPU code isn't a tech demo, knock it down to about .35Gbps.

Split RAM sounds bad because it means you can't have a single 128MB file in there, but it also means that you don't have to share the bandwidth with everything else that's going on.
Unified RAM didn't hurt the Xbox1, and it sure as hell doesn't seem to be hurting the X360.

ding ding ding ding!

At least he has his own opinions and doesn't steal other's and pass them off as his own!
Your point might be stronger if Nintendo hadn't announced they were working on a special Gamecube peripheral to extend the life of the console only a year before they announced the Revolution/Wii. Sure it has slightly better capabilities than a GC, especially when it comes to RAM, but it's hardly a stretch to call it a souped up Gamecube peripheral.

As long as the price is right I don't personally see anything wrong with this - it's not like the Gamecube set any market on fire, so there's not much to build off of there. It's probably a good approach for Nintendo to take, though I personally would have dropped GC compatibility and went for a more Genesis-style hardware design (ie fast but simple off-the-shelf component) to take advantage of general CPU and GPU manufacturing efficiencies rather than slight evolution of niche Nintendo hardware. Most of the people that want GC games presumably purchased the system already. Hell, I got it for $70 well more than a year ago, and insanely large bundles have been offered for only $99 for some time now. If somebody hasn't bought one at that price they probably couldn't care less about the system's library.

(Anybody still dreaming that it offers triple the performance of a GC is in for a rude surprise. Even double is pushing it.)

EternalGamer

07-31-2006, 02:29 PM

DeadScreenSky, you make some good points. And I agree with you about creating a new system being the smarter approach. Clearly releasing it as a peripheral this late in the system's life would not help at all. It would be destined to fail. And yes the "new" hardware is essentially the medium for the controller, but we recognize the necessity of this (over the peripheral route) given the current marketplace conditions.

However, I think you neglect to consider that by basing the Wii on the Cube archietecture they allow for a smooth transition for first and third party developers. They can more quickly maximize the capabilities of the system. Also they are less likely to have manufacturing problems as most of the kinks will have already been worked out and they can be more efficient in terms of both time and money spent manufacturing parts.

Kamalot

07-31-2006, 02:34 PM

However, I think you neglect to consider that by basing the Wii on the Cube archietecture they allow for a smooth transition for first and third party developers. They can more quickly maximize the capabilities of the system. Also they are less likely to have manufacturing problems as most of the kinks will have already been worked out and they can be more efficient in terms of both time and money spent manufacturing parts.Agreed. There are a lot of advantages to running with a faster version of existing hardware for developers.

DeadScreenSky

07-31-2006, 02:36 PM

That is all true, but it's not like Nintendo's tools or hardware were necessarily that easy to use to begin with. (The shader capabilities of the Cube in particular are a little bizarre, though it's possible they have been made a little more standard for the Wii.) You also have the issue where very few developers were really focusing on Cube games that used the hardware in a specialized manner. I can't think of anything significant in that area other than a handful of Capcom and Sega titles, though I'm sure I'm forgetting something. It would have been far better to just port their devtools to run on this 'Genesis hardware', exactly like Sega did with their Dreamcast devtools when they started to work on the Gamecube. Other than RE4 are there really any Cube game engines that deserve to be reused?

And since the new hardware would have been off-the-shelf standard stuff, it's not like devs would need a lot of time to develop specialized knowledge like they have to for the PS3, X360, PS2, etc. The Xbox followed a similar model, as did the Dreamcast, and both saw excellent performance extremely early in their lifespans.

f1sh3r

07-31-2006, 03:03 PM

Megalith

07-31-2006, 03:59 PM

Embarrassment revealed in full.

thecrazyd

07-31-2006, 04:31 PM

Is there anyway we can ban Megalith for being a useless troll who has never added anything to a conversation? Zeal is at least funny.

Mozgus

07-31-2006, 04:37 PM

Is there anyway we can ban Megalith for being a useless troll who has never added anything to a conversation? Zeal is at least funny.
Megalith is entertainment to me at least. I seem to have followed him from forum to forum inadvertently, throughout his and my bannings. Generally, when I am about to troll, I like to ask myself if it is something Megalith would say. If it is, then I know that I am trolling poorly.

divinechaos

07-31-2006, 04:45 PM

31 Flavas

07-31-2006, 04:53 PM

Who's "they"? Because Nintendo has already told us this stuff 100 fold. That's why everyone is hyped and they had the 6+ hour line at E3 to get into their floor space. Not to mention why everyone ignored Sony's floor space and the 10am "rampage" to get to Nintendo's booth when the doors opened at E3 every day....

Zeal

07-31-2006, 04:58 PM

Manzy

07-31-2006, 04:58 PM

Zanzibar

07-31-2006, 05:00 PM

What's everyone so worked up about?

The specs are real. Right now, devs are getting decent results, better than Xbox quality. Just as with every console from the dawn of time, the games will look better as the devs learn the 'gotchas' of the console and learn the shortcuts that deliver the most horsepower.

It won't look like the X360 or the PS3, but it WILL NEVER HAVE TO.

Serapth

07-31-2006, 05:02 PM

All this talk about RAM and GPU's makes my brain hurt. Here's the specs list they SHOULD'VE released:

-It plays Mario, Metroid, Zelda and Kirby
-It can do 3D graphics
-If you move your arms, things will happen!
-It plays Mario, Metroid, Zelda and Kirby

THAT will sell consoles.

God, I hope many of you people dont believe this. Nintendo *CANNOT* simply sell itself off its IP if it actually wants to grow its user base. Simply saying "We have Zelda and Mario!!!" is just going to win back the crowd that bought Gamecubes, but obviously Nintendo has greater ambitions then that.

I think Nintendo understands that though... but im not so sure about most rabid fans.

divinechaos

07-31-2006, 05:06 PM

Opty

07-31-2006, 05:16 PM

Here's why I think these specs are fake, or at least mostly fake:

-First most obvious glaring mistake: no mention of the Wiimote's speaker.
-Second: they refer to disks as "single layer" and "dual layer" on one line and then as "single sided" and "double sided" on the next.
-Third: Official specs would not compare the GPU to the GameCube whatsoever, especially in such a contrived way as "about 1.5x." If these were official specs they'd use the exact percentage the GPU was more powerful
-Fourth: The rumble motor's intensity is listed as being changeable whereas IGN reported it wasn't. Which side is correct? This adds a little bit of confusion/doubt by itself but in combination with the above it earns itself a point on the list.
-Fifth: Hollywood isn't spelled consistently between his first round of stats and his second. Listed as "HollyWood" in the first and "Hollywood" in the second. We all know Nintendo's a stickler for proper spelling and capitalization (to the point that their press kit for the Wii in E3 had a page on how to properly spell Wii) so such a mistake makes no sense.

And for his "hey here have some more stats to prove I'm telling the truth" crap, anyone could make it up. In fact here, I'll make something up about Hollywood right now:

-The Hollywood GPU will have a proprietary shader architecture with these stats:
Vertex:
-Number of instruction slots: 512
-Max Number of instructions executed: 65535
-Instruction Predication: Yes
-Temp Registers: 32
-Number constant registers: 256
-Static Flow Control: Yes
-Dynamic Flow Control: Yes
-Dynamic Flow Control Depth: 24
-Vertex Texture Fetch: Yes
-Number of texture samplers: 4
-Geometry Instancing Support: Yes

Pixel:
-Dependent texture limit: None
-Texture instruction limit: Unlimited
-Position register: Yes
-Instruction slots: 512
-Executed instructions: 512
-Interpolated registers : 10
-Instruction predication: Yes
-Index input registers: Yes
-Temp registers: 32
-Constant registers: 32
-Arbitrary swizzling: Yes
-Gradient instructions: Yes
-Loop count register: Yes
-Face register (2-sided lighting): Yes
-Dynamic flow control: Yes

dr_wily

07-31-2006, 05:24 PM

What I don't get is why they made the GPU so wimpy, for an extra $5 to production costs they probably could have made it 2.5x the GCs power. They also should have included a hard drive, having the virtual console without a hard drive is a huge mistake.

I agree that was the first thing i thought.

I know the GC had a kickin proc at half the speed of the xbox, but what were talking about is 5 year old GPU tech with a faster clock rate.

That is akin to saying "Oh ill OC the fuck out of my geforce ti4200 or rage 128 card, instead of using a geforce 5 or 6 series."

nope doesnt work like that

recently the big hoodoo was SLIing 2 6800s, only to learn that the 7800 is faster than said SLI setup, at a quarter of the power.

but well see, its all in the programming (RE4)... currently what were seeing is barely playstation 1 level graphics in games like Wii Tennis.

DeadScreenSky

07-31-2006, 05:24 PM

These specs were definitely accurate when they were given. Keep in mind stuff like the speaker in the Wiimote wasn't revealed yet to third parties until E3. It's very likely a few of these specs were estimates on Nintendo's part, too. But you're fooling yourself if you expect any major changes - the best you're going to get is maybe revelations that the GPU has upgraded features.

fitbabits

07-31-2006, 05:54 PM

Here's why I think these specs are fake, or at least mostly fake:
They are real. I cannot say it any more clearly... I'm sorry if they don't meet the standards which some of y'all were hoping or expecting, but they are real.

Serapth

07-31-2006, 06:11 PM

They are real. I cannot say it any more clearly... I'm sorry if they don't meet the standards which some of y'all were hoping or expecting, but they are real.

Oooooooooh, a mystic wiseman redname post! :D

bboy

07-31-2006, 06:15 PM

Still no word whatsoever about it's region coding. Will it be region free like all Nintendo handhelds or will it maintain region coding like consoles of the 'past'?

Also, will the console menu GUI be multilingual as is the DS/Lite? This would certainly simplify Nintendo's manufacturing. One Wii fo all :) .

Mozgus

07-31-2006, 06:26 PM

Since when were computers made only to run videogames.
No shit. Thats why they can't be compared. You totally missed it.

Achilles

07-31-2006, 06:36 PM

Those specs look about right for the screenshots we’ve seen of things like Mario Galaxy. And since Zanzibar says they're right, I wouldn't argue.

Since I don’t see games using advanced shaders like normal maps and whatnot, I don’t expect the card supports them very well, as the GC apparently didn’t (as the specs say, it's a faster version of the GC's GPU). So even though it's more powerful than a Game Cube, the look of the late-stage Xbox games like Halo 2 and Splinter Cell may elude it. It’ll be tough to keep the games on there from looking outdated in comparison to 360 and PS3 stuff. I know Nintendo doesn’t care because they’re not competing with MS and Sony, etc. But till it turns out not to actually be competing, I’m going to assume a console’s a competing in the console market.

EternalGamer

07-31-2006, 06:38 PM

God, I hope many of you people dont believe this. Nintendo *CANNOT* simply sell itself off its IP if it actually wants to grow its user base. Simply saying "We have Zelda and Mario!!!" is just going to win back the crowd that bought Gamecubes, but obviously Nintendo has greater ambitions then that.

I think Nintendo understands that though... but im not so sure about most rabid fans.

You missed his point. His point was that numbers (whether big or small) really don't mean anything to the consumer. It might matter to someone trying to develop games for the system and the restraints they are under, but it's not really a consumer selling point. If you think that not even some of the most recognized franchises in videogames (like Mario or Zelda) are not enough to garner mainstream attention, then a speed on a processor or 3 GB of RAM isn't anything that would ever come close to registering as being worth their attention.

What dsfreak did, cleverly, was to point to what are the real consumer features of the product and what (in real world terms) it will allow players to do. Fact: you can play Mario. Fact: You can play Zelda and games in 3D. Fact: You can play games by waving your arms around. You can't "play" a 3.2 GHZ dual core processor. You can't experience 2GB of unified RAM (unless you count experiencing the impression made on you by that dick waving announcement of that "feature"). Those just a phrase with some numbers attached, phrases and numbers that, as far as the consumer is concerned, are arbitrary and are unrelated to what they get when the buy a videogame system.

I am toasted right now. So if none of this makes sense, I blame Kelegacy's road. Also that picture Liquidize posted is going to give me nightmares. Also the crazy'd announced that he would not click links anymore in that thread. He also thinks Kelegacy's tangents are luscious. Well that's it for the summary of the posts I've read in the last 10 minutes. I now return you to your regularly scheduled forum browsing. Er... wait what was I... soda muffins? Why gee, thanks so much. I'll mow your lawn on tuesday for a dollar today. Oilive Oil is not so hot. She needs muscle cream for her acupuncturial tendencies (her tendencies to get acupunture). Er... uh... nevermind.

RMan

07-31-2006, 06:47 PM

They are real. I cannot say it any more clearly... I'm sorry if they don't meet the standards which some of y'all were hoping or expecting, but they are real.
Ok then, tell us what the shader model is. This is something a developer would be aware of before anything else, why is that not the first thing mentioned? You can say all day long that they are accurate specs, but regarding the GPU they fail to mention the relevant part, so any discerning reader isn't going to put much stock in them. Honestly, the GPU is about 1.5 times faster? Doing what? If I said the 360 GPU is 1.5 times faster when emulating Xbox1 software that'd be a fairly irrelevant stat in terms of the system's capabilities. Saying the GPU is running at X clock speed then saying "Oh, it may have newer shading capabilities" makes it a pretty pointless statement. Perhaps they are accurate, but IMO they're also irrelevant.

fitbabits

07-31-2006, 06:49 PM

Ok then, tell us what the shader model is. This is something a developer would be aware of before anything else, why is that not the first thing mentioned? You can say all day long that they are accurate specs, but regarding the GPU they fail to mention the relevant part, so any discerning reader isn't going to put much stock in them. Honestly, the GPU is about 1.5 times faster? Doing what? If I said the 360 GPU is 1.5 times faster when emulating Xbox1 software that'd be a fairly irrelevant stat in terms of the system's capabilities. Saying the GPU is running at X clock speed then saying "Oh, it may have newer shading capabilities" makes it a pretty pointless statement. Perhaps they are accurate, but IMO they're also irrelevant.
I'm not a developer (nor did I ever claim to be), so what makes you think I would know that? However, there are some developer who've contributed to this thread who have confirmed that the specs are the real deal.

Zanzibar

07-31-2006, 07:02 PM

RMan, relax.

If you're going to get worked up over the specifics, you're not going to find anything you're going to like from the stats this dev is giving you. I'm not a programmer, but every meeting that I've been a part of has confirmed these numbers from this list. I heard '88mb total, 3mb cache on the GPU' on day one that we got our kits.

I don't know if the Hollywood GPU is the same as the GC, and I have no idea what shader model it's using, but the power we're seeing is stronger than the GC, and the extra memory is making it so that we've got ample texture memory for normal mapping, which was a problem for the GC. Could be the bus I/O speed is faster. Could be a million different things. It's no X360, but again, it doesn't have to be.

RMan, what were you hoping for from the Wii that makes accepting these stats so unpalatable?

RMan

07-31-2006, 07:18 PM

I'm not a developer (nor did I ever claim to be), so what makes you think I would know that? However, there are some developer who've contributed to this thread who have confirmed that the specs are the real deal.
Again, perhaps these stats are real, what I’m saying is they’re not relevant, and if a developer was going to post relevant information about the system then the shader capabilities would be at the top of the list. Let me give a very simplified lesson in computer graphics, if the GC was fast enough to draw every pixel on the screen twice, and the Wii is 1.5 times faster, then it could draw every pixel on the screen three times (this is disregarding transparencies, off-screen buffers, etc.). This extra speed would be absolutely useless in terms of making the image look better, pure speed improvements don’t contribute in a significant way to image quality. The shader capabilities determine what effects can be done, and is a far more significant piece of information if you actually want to gauge the graphic capabilities of the system. The continual lack of mentioning the most important info about the GPU as well as whether or not it features any of the physics improvements ATI has been working on make it difficult to take any of the rest seriously. As I said several times, it doesn’t make sense to me that ATI would retool to produce an older core, much less lay claim to it if they did, so until Nintendo or ATI gives us information about the system I’m not putting much stock in nameless internet guy, especially when he’s offering the less relevant information.

Achilles

07-31-2006, 07:21 PM

I heard '88mb total, 3mb cache on the GPU' on day one that we got our kits.88's better than what the Xbox had. It looks like it's all accessible from the GPU or the CPU as well, which is a good deal.

Zanzibar

07-31-2006, 07:26 PM

Serapth

07-31-2006, 07:34 PM

You missed his point. His point was that numbers (whether big or small) really don't mean anything to the consumer. It might matter to someone trying to develop games for the system and the restraints they are under, but it's not really a consumer selling point. If you think that not even some of the most recognized franchises in videogames (like Mario or Zelda) are not enough to garner mainstream attention, then a speed on a processor or 3 GB of RAM isn't anything that would ever come close to registering as being worth their attention.

What dsfreak did, cleverly, was to point to what are the real consumer features of the product and what (in real world terms) it will allow players to do. Fact: you can play Mario. Fact: You can play Zelda and games in 3D. Fact: You can play games by waving your arms around. You can't "play" a 3.2 GHZ dual core processor. You can't experience 2GB of unified RAM (unless you count experiencing the impression made on you by that dick waving announcement of that "feature"). Those just a phrase with some numbers attached, phrases and numbers that, as far as the consumer is concerned, are arbitrary and are unrelated to what they get when the buy a videogame system.

I am toasted right now. So if none of this makes sense, I blame Kelegacy's road. Also that picture Liquidize posted is going to give me nightmares. Also the crazy'd announced that he would not click links anymore in that thread. He also thinks Kelegacy's tangents are luscious. Well that's it for the summary of the posts I've read in the last 10 minutes. I now return you to your regularly scheduled forum browsing. Er... wait what was I... soda muffins? Why gee, thanks so much. I'll mow your lawn on tuesday for a dollar today. Oilive Oil is not so hot. She needs muscle cream for her acupuncturial tendencies (her tendencies to get acupunture). Er... uh... nevermind.

Ummmmmm.....

RMan

07-31-2006, 07:35 PM

RMan, relax.
RMan, what were you hoping for from the Wii that makes accepting these stats so unpalatable?
Hehe, I’m not that worked up about it (though selected information from an anonymous source always rubs me the wrong way), the stats listed are not really a problem for me, the only confirmed stat I don’t like the RAM, and nothing else here seems to contradict significantly other previously released stats. There is just no way I’m going to believe that it’s a 5 year old GPU until ATI or Nintendo says it is, and a general ‘the GPU is 1.5 times faster’ just sounds stupid unless you accept that they used a 5 year old core. In short, a new chip at the same clock as a 5 year old one is far more capable.

I’m mostly hoping for the physics elements to be in there, which seems a good possibility, and I think that’d allow some cool things combined with the controller. I honestly don’t mind so much the low clock, for me that means it’s less likely to be noisy and hot, I’m personally satisfied with GC graphics capabilities.

Achilles

07-31-2006, 07:47 PM

Not to beat a dead horse, but the GC's problem was never the GPU. It had every bit as much horsepower as the Xbox's GPU had. The problem was there wasn't enough texture memory available to allow the GC to display the same amount of bump/normal/shadow mapping that the Xbox could handle, so the games almost always lacked that level of detail. The Wii solves that problem by having a LOT more memory, and also made improvements on the higher bus speeds for I/O.I wouldn't argue with you on this because you know more about it than me, but we haven't seen the ability to do advanced shaders pimped in any of the Wii game screenshots/ movies. The stuff from Nintendo certainly isn't using bump-mapping or anything (Wii sports, Mario Galaxy, Zelda), and I don't see any in the recent Red Steel screenshots. Maybe it's just their stand on such things and we'll see other companies put that stuff in, but really if the system can do it they should put it in, it'll make their games look a lot more modern.

benig

07-31-2006, 08:00 PM

These are the same stats the Assamassina posted months ago...

Bumbuliuz

07-31-2006, 08:09 PM

Hellstorm

07-31-2006, 08:43 PM

It's going to be a laugh riot as this system outsells the PS3 and 360. Nintendo is going to be laughing their way to the bank, while Sony and MS scratch their heads at their mounting loses.

r3dwiz

07-31-2006, 08:47 PM

Looks great, cant wait to get it. I like that it plays my Gc games. But the only thing I can think of is will it support my memory card? Or will I have to finish a game again on my Wii? That is the one thing that is troubling me. I have 2 games I want to play on my Gc, but if this wont work I will either try to finish them before the Wii comes out or start them after. Any thoughts?

In terms of GC Backwards compatibility, there's a full set of controller ports and memory cards on the Wii for GC play. Everything should be playable, from DK bongos, Mic, Wavebirds (if the reciever fits?) etc etc.

On Topic - Nothing to comment, negative or positive. I will say I can't remember being excited to play on a certain technology (PC excluded - I like higher framerates)... I'm more likely to look foward to playing [awesome game title] or whatever I feel like instead.

Zeal

07-31-2006, 08:57 PM

It's going to be a laugh riot as this system outsells the PS3 and 360. Nintendo is going to be laughing their way to the bank, while Sony and MS scratch their heads at their mounting loses.
Can we please step back into reality.

Only a small minority of Nintendo fanboys are delusional enough to believe this, and half are on internet message boards.

Most have realized at this point that the console war is now between Sony and Microsoft. Nintendo is no longer a factor in the equation.

Chameleo

07-31-2006, 08:57 PM

You DO know that it has 512 MB of internal memory for saving your virtual console games, right?

You do know that it has an SD card slot so you can add your own SD cards, right?

and that SD cards come as big as 4gb now-a-days?

thecrazyd

07-31-2006, 09:06 PM

Wonka

07-31-2006, 09:11 PM

The only thing I don't like about the Wii, is that sensation down in my wallet that I just bought one of these...

Except that it was called a GC and there was no fancy new controller. Other than that, I think its fine. There is plenty here to make a decent party game. Which is looking to be the strong point of the new system.

Adam Blue

07-31-2006, 09:20 PM

Can we please step back into reality.

Only a small minority of Nintendo fanboys are delusional enough to believe this, and half are on internet message boards.

Most have realized at this point that the console war is now between Sony and Microsoft. Nintendo is no longer a factor in the equation.

No. While Nintendo and MS will compliment each other more than be against eachother, I doubt EITHER company is afraid of Sony. Seriously, dude.

Nintendo is in this more than Sony...I mean come on....it amazes me that people actually argue these points. I DON'T UNDERSTAND/I'M GOING CRAZY.

thenefariousone

07-31-2006, 09:22 PM

No - the best looking game aka RE4 represents the gamecube maximum, not the Nintendo Wii minimum. It's the gold standard, and by that very nature it's not something everyone can achieve.

Every developer has the desire to make the best game they can. But in the real world, most don't have the resources or the time to do so.

We'll have to wait and see what the Nintendo Wii can do. We have yet to see anything on the Wii that equals RE4.

Even the 12 million dollar budgeted Red Steel.

When you’re discussing what hardware can do, the best looking game on a platform expresses the minimum capabilities of the platform. In short, every game could look as good as RE4 (perhaps better) if the developers had the resources and desire to do so.

RMan

07-31-2006, 09:43 PM

No - the best looking game aka RE4 represents the gamecube maximum, not the Nintendo Wii minimum.
Read my comment again, I was talking about hardware capabilities, not developer abilities (half your post is arguing my point). RE4 is the best we've seen done, not the best that can be done, if that were true then we could say that the 360 games are the maximum the system can do, which is clearly absurd. I would say that the average Wii game won’t look as good as RE4 (but that will likely be true of all 3 systems), but it's still technically acheivable by anyone developing on the GC (unless you think Capcom writes magic code), and as long as it's at least as capable, the Wii as well.

Zeal

07-31-2006, 09:43 PM

No. While Nintendo and MS will compliment each other more than be against eachother, I doubt EITHER company is afraid of Sony. Seriously, dude.

Nintendo is in this more than Sony...I mean come on....it amazes me that people actually argue these points. I DON'T UNDERSTAND/I'M GOING CRAZY.
How the fuck will Sony and Microsoft 'compliment' one another if they're in direct competition? Meanwhile, Nintendo's completely out in left field and trying to create their own market.

Doing so after being forced out of the mainstream by both Microsoft and Sony, I might add.

This is irrefutably simple.

Manzy

07-31-2006, 09:45 PM

Can we please step back into reality.

Only a small minority of Nintendo fanboys are delusional enough to believe this, and half are on internet message boards.

Most have realized at this point that the console war is now between Sony and Microsoft. Nintendo is no longer a factor in the equation.

We both sell apples. It costs me 1 cent an apple and I sell them for five cents. Your apples, while being 'better' and genetically enhanced, cost ten cents to make and you sell them at 7 cents. Oh yeah, there's this dude that's got comparable apples to yours, except they are 6 cents.

I stay fuller lot longer me thinks. Perhaps you make killing on your condiments, but risky.

Zeal

07-31-2006, 09:46 PM

We both sell apples. It costs me 1 cent an apple and I sell them for five cents. Your apples, while being 'better' and genetically enhanced, cost ten cents to make and you sell them at 7 cents. Oh yeah, there's this dude that's got comparable apples to yours, except they are 6 cents.

I stay fuller lot longer me thinks.
Someone get this nut outta the thread, please.

Manzy

07-31-2006, 09:54 PM

Someone get this nut outta the thread, please.
Apples aren't nutz, goofball. They do both come from trees. Close conjecture!

Kamalot

07-31-2006, 10:10 PM

Apples aren't nutz, goofball. They do both come from trees. Close conjecture!
I think Zeal relapsed into talking about himself again. :)

Achilles

07-31-2006, 10:25 PM

We both sell apples. It costs me 1 cent an apple and I sell them for five cents.Nintendo has repeatedly stated that it is not aiming for the apple market, they're going to the blue ocean of the snozberry market.

Bumbuliuz

07-31-2006, 10:30 PM

In terms of GC Backwards compatibility, there's a full set of controller ports and memory cards on the Wii for GC play. Everything should be playable, from DK bongos, Mic, Wavebirds (if the reciever fits?) etc etc.

On Topic - Nothing to comment, negative or positive. I will say I can't remember being excited to play on a certain technology (PC excluded - I like higher framerates)... I'm more likely to look foward to playing [awesome game title] or whatever I feel like instead.

If this is right about the ports, it just makes me want to get the Wii even more. I havent been this excited for a console since the 360 came out :)

IndependentGMR

07-31-2006, 11:25 PM

I hope it's dirt cheap.

blackzc

08-01-2006, 01:34 AM

Who remembers back mabye 2-3 years ago when nintendo was talking about supporting the GC till 2007 and skiping the NEXT gen to get a head start on next next gen? This is half of what they are doing.

If the Wii flops they get the head start on next gen, if it takes off and sells 100 million they get away with selling a very cheap system and making a crapload of money....nintendo is so freaking smart.

wichenroder

08-01-2006, 02:14 AM

blackzc

08-01-2006, 03:26 AM

c'mon guys.. great games are still coming out for the PS2 and you honestly think these numbers make or break a console?!? Art thrives on limitations. Christ I play my DS more than anything else right now. Have some faith in the developers and don't sound like such spoilt Amerikan$

OH NO YOU DIDNT....you spelled america with a K and a $ .... :p

Anyway, yeah what he said, dont be such spoilt 3urop34an$ and Ru$$ans and Au5trailans and 10buk2eans.

Manzy

08-01-2006, 06:49 AM

benig

08-01-2006, 06:58 AM

Why has the rest of the internet deemed these as untrue except for us? Note the glaring lack of 1T-SRAM, which has been confirmed as in the system..

Manzy

08-01-2006, 07:36 AM

Why has the rest of the internet deemed these as untrue except for us? Note the glaring lack of 1T-SRAM, which has been confirmed as in the system..

indeed (http://ir.mosysinc.com/phoenix.zhtml?c=123322&p=irol-newsArticle&ID=873477)

Some people on here seem so sure it's real though, I can't figure out why. Maybe I'm just a more of a skeptic than a I thought?

MoJoBehaumat

08-01-2006, 09:30 AM

fitbabits

08-01-2006, 09:33 AM

Yea Yea we have seen it all before. Nintendo Wii specs are not totally legit here, maybe in some degree close but in no way accurate!
Damn didnt anybody learn from last gen speculation.
I guess we are doomed to repeat until nintendo finally shares!
Um, except you are wrong. Read the posts leading up to this one and you'll see why. Or don't and look like a fool - it's up to you!

MoJoBehaumat

08-01-2006, 09:38 AM

Damn the air in Denver must have you feeling light headed, or perhaps your just a little uptight :)

fitbabits

08-01-2006, 09:52 AM

Damn the air in Denver must have you feeling light headed, or perhaps your just a little uptight :)
Both, actually. I'm coming down with something and it's making me very irrational! :(

FahlenNyhtmayr

08-11-2006, 01:47 PM

I didn't feel like going through seventeen pages of replies and whatnot to see if this was said, but does anyone else realize the fact that the Wii is very small in comparison to the other two? This, along with the fact that Nintendo is purposely aiming not to include fully mainstream advanced entertainment supports (DD Surround, HD capability, etc), leads me to believe that the Wii is exactly where Nintendo intended and wants it to be. With Nintendo's history, I have no doubt at all that the aforementioned specs are just right for what Nintendo expects. Also, with confirmed DS support (uses are as of yet unknown), Nintendo has connectivity to another revolutionary platform. From the screenshots of Sadness, I'd say the Wii has more than enough capability for what Nintendo and the developers have in store. The system has got the industry buzzing and many developers practically peeing their pants in excitement to find out it's capabilities. With the new capabilities, the new possibilities, and also the fact that development costs are cheaper, Wii really has nothing to worry about. In fact, if anyone recalls, Sony and Microsoft both recommended buying a Wii as a system to buy along with their own. Fanboys aside, the Wii really only has received high praise and good predictions for success.

It smells like more Nintendo genious to me. It's not strength that wins the fight. It's skill.