Sony to Introduce Achiev... Entitlements

[Guy Mariano]

According to EGM's Dan Hsu during this week's EGM Live podcast (http://egmlive.1up.com/), the Sony Playstation 3 will be awarding their own version of Xbox 360 Achievements, but will instead be calling them "entitlements."

Hsu, the editor of EGM, said he had heard that Sony was going to call their achievements by this horrible name that could only come from the brilliant minds at Sony.

[Liquidize105]

That's a funny name.

Why achieve it when I'm friggin entitled to it, damnit!?

[Derella]

Microsoft obviously looked into the future, and stole the idea from them.

[Johan]

Not to pile on Sony (I'll pile on any of the big three when they're stupid, anyway), but could Sony please, please, please come up with some of their own ideas this generation? Motion-sensitive controller, a la Wii? Check Achievement/entitlement clone? Check

It would truly be good for gaming overall if the current industry leader would lead. This is, to me, depressing. Sony, please forge into new territory outside of merely ramming a new disk technology down our throats :(

[Chang3]

So, good n3ws or bad n3ws? or is this just a rumor?
Nop3, just Evil Avatar trying to mak3 sony look bad, thats all.

[Kamalot]

So, good n3ws or bad n3ws? or is this just a rumor?
Nop3, just Evil Avatar trying to mak3 sony look bad, thats all.
Yeah, Evil Avatar trying to make Sony look bad by injecting things into the EGM Podcast?

Entitlements? Like, you are entitled to the points but didn't achieve them?
Lame name for a rip-off idea. I wonder how Nintendo can rip-off the achievements idea. Maybe you get Stars or Shines for beating games.

[Taco]

I do not think that word means what you think it means.

[Reanimated]

How original. Just like everything else they do.

[Hemalin]

Wait, so people bitch that the PS3 better have an achievment system like Xbox 360. Then, when Sony announces they are implementing an achievment system, everybody bitches that Sony is just copying Microsoft? That doesn't mean Sony's name for them isn't stupid.

[BlackPete]

Wait, so people bitch that the PS3 better have an achievment system like Xbox 360. Then, when Sony announces they are implementing an achievment system, everybody bitches that Sony is just copying Microsoft? That doesn't mean Sony's name for them isn't stupid.

Hmm......

....

...

Nah, I don't get what you mean.

[Demo_Boy]

Entitlements is the ultimate misnomer for a points system.

They really did not need to choose a name that had "...ments" in it.

[Taco]

I don't know. I think "Awardments" would work. They should hire me!!

[Vermillion]

How about Attainments? Accomplishments?

You can only become someone important at Sony if you unlock enough Asshatteryments..

[Kelegacy]

Sony is the world leader in console videogaming...I really hoped they'd come up with some ideas of their own besides goddamn Blu-Ray. I love the Playstations, and I think Sony does need things like achievements in games (for better or worse, MS has set a standard with Live and its doodads) but sometimes they are so blatant it's sad.


I hope the name isn't entitlements. That just doesn't make sense.

[Captain Awesome]

So, good n3ws or bad n3ws? or is this just a rumor?
Nop3, just Evil Avatar trying to mak3 sony look bad, thats all.

haha, that's the best poster gimmick so far. 3's! genius! (You forgot the "E" in Evil Avatar :mad: )


I think Sony should call them "Blessings" instead.

[Yadneb]

Not to pile on Sony (I'll pile on any of the big three when they're stupid, anyway), but could Sony please, please, please come up with some of their own ideas this generation? Motion-sensitive controller, a la Wii? Check Achievement/entitlement clone? Check

It would truly be good for gaming overall if the current industry leader would lead. This is, to me, depressing. Sony, please forge into new territory outside of merely ramming a new disk technology down our throats :(
Don't you see, they are leading! They are pushing the industry forward with an integrated high definition video player, free network play left for developers to figure out, (in essence creating freedom for developers to create network functionality anyway they choose just like the ps2!), they are making progressive steps towards copy protected games that will work on just one console, thus cutting down on piracy therefore protecting consumers, AND they have the motion sensing technologies of the wii, and now the far superior entitlement system that the 360 has! Don't you see they are leading the industry and then some, this is more than a console, it is a Computer Entertainment system!!! I would buy a PS3 even if it didn't have any games!!!

*sarcasm off*

[Taco]

Numerical replacements don't apply to proper nouns. Moron.

[Johan]

How about something simple:

Medals
Honors
Triumphs
Successes
Conquests
Exploits
Feats (I kinda like that one...makes me think of Hobbits :) )

Dang...use a freaking thesaurus, Sony, and come up with SOMETHING better.

[bean19]

Will the Wii have wii-wiis?

[Taco]

I was hoping for Wiigasms.

[Yadneb]

Yeah in all honesty, they probably had to make this move even if it makes them look like a copycat. But I agree, entitlements is a very crappy name, it looks like Johan came up with 7 better names in a matter of minutes.

[Vermillion]

I swear I would buy every big N game just so I could get all the Wiigasms...

[agentgray]

I think this word is in and of itself a summation of how Sony views a gamer's relationship to their products.

Entitlement.

[Lon Lon Rabbit]

I think this word is in and of itself a summation of how Sony views a gamer's relationship to their products.

Entitlement.

Exactly what I came here to post.

The implementation of such a system was inevitable, and I don't think they deserve any bashing for including as many of the aspects of the competition that work well (it's business), but that name is arrogant as hell.

[Morangie]

Place your bets, how long until Sony claim they had the idea first anyway?

[bapenguin]

Badges or Medals would have been my vote.

Oh well...at least they have the system (apparantly) one more thing for me to get addicted to! :)

[jeffool]

Maybe you'll get them just for starting the game? *shrug*

[Ajguy]

Place your bets, how long until Sony claim they had the idea first anyway?

Agreed. Just as they claimed to be working on a motion sensing controller long before Nintendo revealed theirs, I'm sure they'll say they had this idea shortly after the PS2 or some nonsense. Of course, now they'll need to rip off gamercards to keep track of your entitlements. I can see it now:

With your Sony GamerID, you can show off you Entitlements and GamerGrade. Be sure to customize your GamerShot to let other gamers see and a private GamerShot just for your friends. Leave KickBack to rate other players. Invite your friends to Confidential Chat available across all games. These features, exclusive to Sony Connect (or whatever it's called), are pioneering console online play.

</SonyBashing>

Phew, glad I got that off my chest. I will say though that Sony is really disappointing me. They've done nothing to innovate save Blu-Ray, which is really more in their interests than ours. I'll just play my 360 and Wii and deal with no MGS4 or FFXIII (hell, I'll rent a system for a week and play them if need be).

[bean19]

Badges or Medals would have been my vote.

Oh well...at least they have the system (apparantly) one more thing for me to get addicted to! :)

Yeah, but having lots of entitlements. . . How do you brag about that without being an asshole?

[Freethis]

So if people who whore for achievements on the 360 are Achivement Whores, does this make Sony's version Entitlement Whores? And if so, what am I going call the original entitlement whores?

[agentgray]

Haha. Just being able to afford the system and games will be some amazing "Entitlements."

I still believe in my previous post comments, though.

[bean19]

Wait, so people bitch that the PS3 better have an achievment system like Xbox 360. Then, when Sony announces they are implementing an achievment system, everybody bitches that Sony is just copying Microsoft? That doesn't mean Sony's name for them isn't stupid.

Good point. I agree with you. However, the name is retarded.

[Knite]

Badges or Medals would have been my vote.

Oh well...at least they have the system (apparantly) one more thing for me to get addicted to! :)

Badges?
BADGES?!
We don't need no steenking Badges!!!!!

I dunno. On one hand, at least they are ripping off other people's good ideas. On the other hand, that is a horrible, horrible name. What are we entitled to again? Entitled to play thier games or something?

[Johan]

Badges?
BADGES?!
We don't need no steenking Badges!!!!!

Movie allusion!

Was that "The Three Amigos?" Can't quite place it :)

On further consideration, Wikipedia says I'm wrong...here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stinking_badges)

[*Legion*]

TERRIBLE name. Nothing wrong with the idea. Microsoft is the online innovator in the game space. It would have been impossible to imagine in 2001, but that's exactly what has happened.

I prefer Sony mercilessly rip off everything good Microsoft does online than try and make a go of their $600 system with the same empty cupboard of an online system we got for the PS2.

Seriously, though, who on earth thought "entitlements" was a good name? Gaming comic writers would have been hard-pressed to come up with a better name as a parody.

I like "Medals". "Badges" doesn't quite have a great ring, but it probably would be the most appropriate name.

[Heretic Machine]

I'm fine with Sony ripping off achievments... But please come up with a better name. I'm embarrassed to even hear something that stupid.

[jspeak32]

Astonishments!!!


How about something simple:

Medals
Honors
Triumphs
Successes
Conquests
Exploits
Feats (I kinda like that one...makes me think of Hobbits :) )

Dang...use a freaking thesaurus, Sony, and come up with SOMETHING better.

[hotdrop]

Woot go sony. I guess their creative idea of the generation is going to be blue ray, and nobody else is touching that with a 10 foot pole.

[Orosco]

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, or however its spelled.

[jacktion]

It seems appropriate that Sony would name their achievements rip-off "entitlements" since that is exactly how Sony has been acting. They seem to think they are entitled to dominate forever no matter what they do or make. They don't have any original ideas. Their entire strategy is a mash-up of MS and Nintendo's ideas. Plus I don't think they have ever heard of the phrase "less is more".

[kid cabelgo]

So, good n3ws or bad n3ws? or is this just a rumor?
Nop3, just Evil Avatar trying to mak3 sony look bad, thats all.

I highly recommend you never post anything using the number three like that again.

Not just for you, but for the sake of gamers in general.

We've all been a little cheapened here today.

[Chang3]

I highly recommend you never post anything using the number three like that again.

Not just for you, but for the sake of gamers in general.

We've all been a little cheapened here today.

C'mon, why cant w3 do that?

[joruussuun]

How about "w00ts" or "skillz"!?
:p

[Orosco]

C'mon, why cant w3 do that?

Well, you have alot of post editing to do, your first 14 posts seem to lack this "personality", for lack of a better word.

[mkelehan]

"What are you talking about? We've been working on Entitlements since long before Microsoft announced their little 'Achievements.'"

[Leon_X_Macbeth]

I personally don't mind the name or the idea at all for the PS3.

If the XBOX's greatest innovation is there Online setup... Others will copy.

If Nintendo's greatest innovation was there controller... Others will copy.

If SONY's greatest innovation is the use of Optical disc's for games... Others will copy.

All these companies copy off of each other... It's what makes everything progress further and further, constantly trying to top the other and trying to achieve the best of the best.

I mean if the PS3 didn't include in any form, the Achievement system, people would bitch and complain, but now it's there, and you know what? People still bitch and complain.

[Taco]

That's all well and good. But I'm more interested in your defense of the name.

[ProfPuppet]

I can't wait until school starts back up and the majority of the kids stop posting as much.

Aaanyway, I like Johan123's idea of naming them triumphs or honors. Much better than entitlements, which makes me think they didn't look the word up in a dictionary to see what it means.

[fitbabits]

I suggest comeuppances, for obvious reasons!

[Heretic Machine]

I personally don't mind the name or the idea at all for the PS3.

If the XBOX's greatest innovation is there Online setup... Others will copy.

If Nintendo's greatest innovation was there controller... Others will copy.

If SONY's greatest innovation is the use of Optical disc's for games... Others will copy.

All these companies copy off of each other... It's what makes everything progress further and further, constantly trying to top the other and trying to achieve the best of the best.

I mean if the PS3 didn't include in any form, the Achievement system, people would bitch and complain, but now it's there, and you know what? People still bitch and complain.

We are ENTITLED to our opinion.

[inmostlight]

So if people who whore for achievements on the 360 are Achivement Whores, does this make Sony's version Entitlement Whores? And if so, what am I going call the original entitlement whores?

Instead of Entitlement Whores, I propose we classify them as suffering from Entitilitus.

[mkelehan]

If SONY's greatest innovation is the use of Optical disc's for games... Others will copy.
...except that the TurboGrafx and Genesis had CD drives well before the PS1, and the Saturn did at the exact same time. I'm struggling to think of any innovation Sony brought to the table. Their claim to fame is throwing money at all the right places, versus MS' throwing money everywhere.

[shnastybiznastic]

iirc, the saturn was announced to have an optical drive before the playstation was announced to. I don't mean to cheapen sony's accomplishment in building the playstation brand, but it is one of clever marketing and positioning, not innovation.

[tvgm2]

Hsu, the editor of EGM, said he had heard that Sony was going to call their achievements by this horrible name that could only come from the brilliant minds at Sony.

Good gravy, it's just a name.

"OMG XBOX 360, that's so stupid, *** is teh doomed!!"

[Banacek]

Astonishments!!!

hahaha, I like it. Either that or Belittlements!

[Evil Avnovice]

They could call it:

-Greatest Hit Points (in lovely red lettering) ;)
-Kaz Kool Points
-Krazy Kutaragi Change
-Cell Currency
-Rubber Ducky Dollars

Pretty corny, huh? :p

P.S. Anyone know how to work "Emotion Engine" into Entitlements? :)

[ProfPuppet]

P.S. Anyone know how to work "Emotion Engine" into Entitlements? :)

Emoengments. No, that doesn't work.

Emo-points?

[Heresyte]

Good gravy, it's just a name.
It's a name that makes absolutely no sense in this context. They might as well call them Failures, it would be equally nonsensicle.

[Mac]

This is pretty laughable. "Entitlements" - why don't they just refer to the gamers as Heirs and Heiresses of the Playstation legacy. Sheesh, c'mon, Sony.

[Mac]

"OMG XBOX 360, that's so stupid, *** is teh doomed!!"

Not to pick on TV, but I hate these damn examples. For christ's sake, as if gamers weren't nerdy enough.

[Deathbane27]

iirc, the saturn was announced to have an optical drive before the playstation was announced to. I don't mean to cheapen sony's accomplishment in building the playstation brand, but it is one of clever marketing and positioning, not innovation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation

Read the Development section. The use of CDs on consoles was planned well before the Saturn (indeed, Sega had the horrid Sega CD).

[Evil Avnovice]

Emoengments. No, that doesn't work.

Emo-points?

How about "Emot-ginements"? Nah, that doesn't work either. :)

[Deadend]

Emoengments. No, that doesn't work.

Emo-points?

I am down for Emo-points! Thus I can call people Emo-whores.

Did ANYONE look up the definition of Entitlement at Sony?

As what I can tell it has nothing to do with earnings.

How about just calling them points?

So I can ask what someone's score is, and not their achivement points.

[Leon_X_Macbeth]

Is this really the main complaint? The Name? Are these the same people who said "Wii? Sounds gay = Failure!"

[Wasson_]

How about just calling them points?


Yeah...

The message you have entered is too short.

[Taco]

They didn't name Wii The Juicer, The Grill Master or The Hair Styler. Which would be more inline with this "entitlement" inanity.

No it's not going to sink it, but its just sooo dumb.

[Ozymandias]

How about Attainments? Accomplishments?

You can only become someone important at Sony if you unlock enough Asshatteryments..

"Accomplishments" was my first guess as well... wrote about it about a week and a half ago. Even suspected someone would pick up "ps3accomplishments.com" - and someone did. Fun times. :)

If you're curious, prediction is in first link in this (http://ozymandias.com/archive/2006/07/30/Playstation-3-Online-to-Have-_2200_Entitlements_2200_.aspx) post.

[RorschachCCCLX]

So, good n3ws or bad n3ws? or is this just a rumor?
Nop3, just Evil Avatar trying to mak3 sony look bad, thats all.

I can spell words without using the number three, can you?

Sony fan boys (who are most of the customers who come in) crowd my store daily begging to pre-order the PS3, they don't seem to care about the price and think that the graphics will make the xbox 360 look like NES. Prehaps Sony is right after all and thier name alone will sweep them to victory, hauled by an army of sheep.

[RorschachCCCLX]

and a quick note, Sony did make the CD drive for Sega's Sega/Mega-CD, I'm not sure about the Turbo-graphix.

[Wildfirexk1]

I'm all for the Wiigasms idea. Hell, the Wii name has sunk in a lot better than most people thought it would, so why not?

As for Sony, why not just have Play Points? Then everyone can talk about how their PPs are better than Wiigasms.

Too much?

[Deathbane27]

I'm all for the Wiigasms idea. Hell, the Wii name has sunk in a lot better than most people thought it would, so why not?

As for Sony, why not just have Play Points? Then everyone can talk about how their PPs are better than Wiigasms.

Too much?


No, please continue.

[Loganrapp]

The issue isn't that they did the same thing as 360 - 'cause that's what we wanted, in terms of having Achievements - but it's looking more and more like all they're doing is copy/paste/rename, and that's not what we want. Certainly there are some other things one could do to separate themselves from 360 in the Achievement/Entitlement/Wiigasm category.

[TRiLoGY]

Cool, I was hoping that they would have a similar points system to the 360..

[Knite]

I think they should call it "Weak Points"

That way, we can get addicted playing just to hit the WEAK POINTS FOR MASSIVE DAMAGE!!!

[bKangy]

Ah Sony, what happened to you? Was this your strategy all along? Wait for everyone to reveal their cards and then photocopy them for yourself?

[TheEpicOfTyler]

In other news, Sony cures AIDS and everyone still jumps on their balls.

[jeffool]

In other news, Sony cures AIDS and everyone still jumps on their balls.Hm, let's try that analogy. GSK cures AIDS, the world rejoices. Pfizer markets their own cure, and thinks people should be amazed. People also find out that if you take Pfizer's brand of aspirin, there's a one in a million chance (per pill) of getting a slight cancer. Pfizer doesn't think it's a big deal. Merck eradicates herpes. Kelegacy weeps in joy, Pfizer markets their own cure, and everyone but Pfizer and their 'fans' mock Pfizer.

I think that's a bit more comparable to what's happening here.

[bean19]

Good gravy, it's just a name.

"OMG XBOX 360, that's so stupid, *** is teh doomed!!"

You can like the PS3 and still think that "Entitlements" is a retarded name.

Sony doesn't own your soul, dude. You really can have your own opinions. It's okay.

[bean19]

Is this really the main complaint? The Name? Are these the same people who said "Wii? Sounds gay = Failure!"

I don't think anyone has made the argument that the stupid name "Entitlements" will lead to the PS3's failure until you brought it up, because naming a minor feature stupidly WON'T hurt a system.

It's just a really stupid name. Seriously PS3 fanboys. You can disagree with Sony on this if you think the name is stupid.

[Knite]

You can like the PS3 and still think that "Entitlements" is a retarded name.

Sony doesn't own your soul, dude. You really can have your own opinions. It's okay.

QFT.

Seriously. Idea, while a ripoff, still a good idea.
Name? Horrible.

At least with the name achievements, it's fairly accurate as you're achieving something. i.e. reaching level 20, or beating a level on "veteran".

What exactly are we supposed to be entitled to?
And if we are entitled to it, wouldn't we already have all of the entitlements just from buying the game? after all, we're entitled.

[SexualChoc]

It's plagarism certainly, but the way people on here go on about achievement points, it could be good for those Sony fanboys who want to be 'entitled' to something aswell.

[Knite]

It's plagarism certainly, but the way people on here go on about achievement points, it could be good for those Sony fanboys who want to be 'entitled' to something aswell.

oooo... someone actually came up with a way to tie entitle into the situation. Bravo sir!

[bean19]

In other news, Sony cures AIDS and everyone still jumps on their balls.

If they named the cure Ass-cheese seyrum, I think everyone would make fun of their horrible naming of the cure too.

This isn't about jumping on Sony, or that having acheivements isn't a really cool thing to copy. It's about a really stupid name.

[Royal Fool]

Hey, I know. Sony could call them kudos!

Oh, wait...

[sado]

not so much pissed off theyre doing it but calling them “entitlements” is just plain gay.

[Kamalot]

Sony is the world leader in console videogaming...
I believe what you mean is...

Sony was the world leader in console videogaming...

or

Sony is the world follower in console videogaming...

[Kelegacy]

Badges or Medals would have been my vote.

Oh well...at least they have the system (apparantly) one more thing for me to get addicted to! :)
At first I thought the Achievements system would only serve as a vehicle for gamers' pride. I still feel that way for the most part, but Achievements really make you feel good when you accomplish something, and go out of your way to complete other goals. As long as games do Achievements right, (PDZ is an example of how they do them WRONG, Tomb Raider Legends and Kameo are examples of how they do them right) I find them worth the extra little bit of hassle to play a game.

Who knew such a simple system would be so catchy? Hopefully, as the Xbox brand grows with further generations, we don't see them sit on their laurels like Sony. Hubris is bad for everyone.

[Kelegacy]

I believe what you mean is...

Sony was the world leader in console videogaming...

or

Sony is the world follower in console videogaming...
Leader meaning, winning, dominating, etc. Not the leader in ideas, but in sales.

[Kamalot]

Leader meaning, winning, dominating, etc. Not the leader in ideas, but in sales.
Ahh! I see. I would argue that that was last generation though. We are on the cusp of a new generation where everyone starts with a virtually clean slate. It is a time of change where your past efforts have little bearing on the future. We've seen it before where the market 'leader' in sales comes up very short.

I would say leading is pointing out a direction and getting people to follow. Clearly, Sony is following other people's good ideas, achievements being one of them. They may end up being successful, but they obviously didn't pick this direction on their own.

In fact, when running in a straight line, Sony seems to do quite well. It is the twists and turns of innovation where they seem to be less nimble. Perhaps if they can sell more PS3s than 360s or Wiis, we can call them a leader again, but until then they are following the lead as set forth by Microsoft, Nintendo and, to a lesser extent, the movie division of Sony.

In the last generation, Sony was the leading videogame maker.

In the upcoming generation, Sony is following other companies ideas.

[Taco]

We are on the cusp of a new generation where everyone starts with a virtually clean slate. It is a time of change where your past efforts have little bearing on the future

Um... no. It doesn't work that way.

[Goronmon]

Assuming the PS3 with have an "Achievements" system, the points will not be called Entitlements.

[TrackZero]

Not to pile on Sony (I'll pile on any of the big three when they're stupid, anyway), but could Sony please, please, please come up with some of their own ideas this generation? Motion-sensitive controller, a la Wii? Check Achievement/entitlement clone? Check



"Guide" button? Check. Online gaming network? Check.

[shnastybiznastic]

Read the Development section. The use of CDs on consoles was planned well before the Saturn (indeed, Sega had the horrid Sega CD).
Whoops, I reckon I'll go back to checking wikipedia before I post. :)

[Kamalot]

Um... no. It doesn't work that way.
Please explain that to Sega, Nintendo and Atari.

[TrackZero]

Please explain that to Sega, Nintendo and Atari.

That'd be a zing, if Taco wasn't so completely off his rocker. You'd swear people nowadays have never seen the video game "crown" move between companies before.

[lockwoodx]

Sony sniffs it's own farts

[Skookum]

I do not think that word means what you think it means.

INCONCEIVABLE!

[Taco]

You two apparently believe name brand recognition created by previous success means very little and I'M off my rocker?

I didn't say they could shit in a box and keep the lead. Although that is kind of what Sony did with the PS2. Wonder if it would have sold without the PS1 pre-empting it.....

[Philonious]

Meh... Could have been lost in translation. And since the bitch-fest has already begun it'll probably be changed now. (though, for the record, I thought the boomerang controller looked kind of pimp... That's right, I said it: PIMP.)

What I'm hoping for is that these entitlements lead to tangible benefits for a gamer. So if you get certain "entitlements" or collect enough "entitlements" you get unlockable content in the game... Or points to spend on downloadable content. I think it would be kind of cool... And motivate people beyond getting achievements for the sake of getting achievements.

[wangstramedeous]

I think its amazing how the same arguments never cease to come up, its like figuring how to pronounce tomato right. Without a doubt, entitlements is a mouthful and carries with it a lot more jokes than could fit in pamela's breats. Still I think it would be more of an error for sony to omit such a feature.

It's the same thing across the board, from OS, to music players, to toasters. I don't see threads all over the internet with throngs of people clamoring how companies copied Mary Bellis who invented the first toaster. How many of you actually spend so much effort when it comes to buying a fridge? Does it not boil down to which manufacturer includes the things you are looking for. Should Sony leave out a "live" like service because Microsoft has done it? Should Microsoft and Sony leave out entirely the option of looking into innovative ways of making the controller a more central part of the gaming experience? Hell no.

I can already see a storm coming up when zune comes out. Oohhh, they're just copying apple. So you would rather they didn't have a variation of the wheel (if that's the best they can come up with)?

I don't get. I just don't. Unfortunately there's a lot of people who like to bitch anyway. Don't break it if it don't need fixing unless you have a great idea.

[wangstramedeous]

It's dissapointing that entitlements is the best sony can come up with. It's a shitty name. On the other hand I think it would be a bigger blunder is sony decided not to include a feature like this at all.

You love or you hate, which one is it guys? Its funny how the same arguments never cease to creep up on such topics. Its like arguing how to pronounce potato. From OS, to media players, to consoles. Personally in the end when I'm plan on buying a product, I don't give a shit who came up with the idea. What I do care about is who manages to integrate all these different ideas into a product that will serve my needs/wants. I don't see threads over the internet on how companies globally have ripped of Mrs. Bellis who invented the toaster. I can already see a storm coming up with Zune, being compared to ipod. Isn't the wheel currently one of the best configurations for navigation? Sometimes it does boil down to blatant copying but would you rather not have those features?

Here's the way I see it. Copying is a means to an end. Its the end (product) and its execution that matters.

[balamoor]

That's it I'm selling my 360 and waiting for the PS3. The console wars are so over!!


Seriously, I think this argument/debate/what have you would have happened no matter what Sony named it. It matters not to me the PS3 is way beyond what I will ever pay for a console. So for me it will be the 360 and the Wii when it comes out.

[Furious Wang]

egalitarian

[Xenkylm]

It seems like most of the problem is the fact that this is information that is being "released." In other words, it's not that the feature exists, but is being presented as if it's innovative.

If sony had said, long ago, that they were planning on having a free online service comparable with xbox live (which they have said, right?), and at that moment they said "For example, with entitlements, players will be able to track their progress in multiple games, much like achievement points on Live," the problem wouldn't be so obvious.

Basically, it doesn't matter if you copy a good idea. If it's really that good, it SHOULD be copied! It only matters if you pretend like you weren't copying all along. That's called a cop-out, and we're just doing our job by shouting out our opinions. We're entitled to them, you know.

[TRiLoGY]

I think its amazing how the same arguments never cease to come up, its like figuring how to pronounce tomato right. Without a doubt, entitlements is a mouthful and carries with it a lot more jokes than could fit in pamela's breats. Still I think it would be more of an error for sony to omit such a feature.

It's the same thing across the board, from OS, to music players, to toasters. I don't see threads all over the internet with throngs of people clamoring how companies copied Mary Bellis who invented the first toaster. How many of you actually spend so much effort when it comes to buying a fridge? Does it not boil down to which manufacturer includes the things you are looking for. Should Sony leave out a "live" like service because Microsoft has done it? Should Microsoft and Sony leave out entirely the option of looking into innovative ways of making the controller a more central part of the gaming experience? Hell no.

I can already see a storm coming up when zune comes out. Oohhh, they're just copying apple. So you would rather they didn't have a variation of the wheel (if that's the best they can come up with)?

I don't get. I just don't. Unfortunately there's a lot of people who like to bitch anyway. Don't break it if it don't need fixing unless you have a great idea.

Great Post :)

[Johan]

Great Post :)

Wangstramedeous' post(s) would have been better if he hadn't basically reprinted the dang thing twice in a row...almost looks like he just juggled some word order and substituted food products (tomato/potato) ;)

Hopefully people got it the first time, eh? :) You do make some good points, however!!

[RestlessAvenger]

Hm, let's try that analogy. GSK cures AIDS, the world rejoices. Pfizer markets their own cure, and thinks people should be amazed. People also find out that if you take Pfizer's brand of aspirin, there's a one in a million chance (per pill) of getting a slight cancer. Pfizer doesn't think it's a big deal. Merck eradicates herpes. Kelegacy weeps in joy, Pfizer markets their own cure, and everyone but Pfizer and their 'fans' mock Pfizer.


So the Playstation 3 is going to give me cancer?
Take that fanboys.

[Crono]

Ascertainments. Lol.

[Metal]

Sony you're just absolutely jumping the shark this gen. I for one won't miss you. Bye!

[Serapth]

Wow, 11 pages of posts, and not one person pointed out the source of this was EGM! You have any idea how often they are wrong?

I was sure since day one, Sony would rip off acheivements, and frankly its a good move. However, what is going to make me sick is I gaurantee they inflate over microsofts scores, so where 20K acheivements is pretty damned impressive on Live, sony will make it 200K, just to be bigger and better. Sadly, im sure this will work ona few dipshit consumers :(

[Xenkylm]

I'd kinda prefer sony just gave us all Junior Mints.

err... junior ments?

[rainbowblack]

MS achievements are so addicting people buy games they ordinarily would not play just to get the points. To MS this = $$$

So Sony copies and introduces Entitlements so people could buy a system they would not ordinarily buy? i think its brilliant lol

[rainbowblack]

OH I forgot to mention. Every entitlment will give you a WHOPPING 600 points!!

[Siraris]

Because every company out there comes up with original ideas for all their products. Vista, for example, is a shining example of innovation and new thinking from the great minds at Microsoft.

I'm actually not knocking MS, I absolutely love Vista, but it's an almost carbon copy of OS X.

It's unfortunate that people are blinded by their hatred for Sony to realize that there really are no original ideas anymore. Everyone does it, but for some reason people on this board have deluded themselves to think that Sony is any different.

And please don't use Nintendo as an example, as the Wiimote is just an amalgam of the Light Gun, the Power Glove and the Virtua Boy, all of which were available 20 years ago.

[Morangie]

And please don't use Nintendo as an example, as the Wiimote is just an amalgam of the Light Gun, the Power Glove and the Virtua Boy, all of which were available 20 years ago.

First up, you're an idiot. Second, everyone knew Sony would rip off achievements just like they copy every good idea the competition has. This thread is mocking the stupid name and lamenting the fact the market leader cannot come up with anything original.

[Siraris]

First up, you're an idiot. Second, everyone knew Sony would rip off achievements just like they copy every good idea the competition has. This thread is mocking the stupid name and lamenting the fact the market leader cannot come up with anything original.

Fantastic response, I can see you really thought that out before posting it.

And you know, "Achievements" haven't been around forever either, seeing as how I've been playing games with achievements forever now. How many games out there give you bonuses for going back and doing things over and over again until you reach their "achievement". Whether they be medals, new characters, bonus levels, or skins for your character. It's the same thing, except now they give you "Microsoft Points" and let you stroke your ego online.

[Loganrapp]

Fantastic response, I can see you really thought that out before posting it.

And you know, "Achievements" haven't been around forever either, seeing as how I've been playing games with achievements forever now. How many games out there give you bonuses for going back and doing things over and over again until you reach their "achievement". Whether they be medals, new characters, bonus levels, or skins for your character. It's the same thing, except now they give you "Microsoft Points" and let you stroke your ego online.

No, he's right - you're a dumbass.

Games giving bonuses != centralized method of awarding milestones reached.

Meaning: 360 had Achievements, Sony (is, will) copy(ing) it. Which, I've said earlier, good on Sony if they don't try to cock it up.

That whole stroking of ego? Yeah, it's what I like to call "competition."

[Siraris]

No, he's right - you're a dumbass.

Games giving bonuses != centralized method of awarding milestones reached.

Meaning: 360 had Achievements, Sony (is, will) copy(ing) it. Which, I've said earlier, good on Sony if they don't try to cock it up.

That whole stroking of ego? Yeah, it's what I like to call "competition."

Unlockable Medals
Broken Sword Clear Mission 9
Bronze Ace Destroy 200 enemies
Bronze Wing Get an "S" rank on every mission with all three Ace Styles on Normal difficulty
Deliverance Bell Clear Mssion 6
Expert Marksman Destroy 50 enemy planes using only guns
Gold Ace Destroy 1000 enemies
Gold Wing Get an "S" rank on every mission with all three Ace Styles on Expert difficulty
Guardian Clear Mission 5

That's a list of some of the Medals you can receive in Ace Combat Zero. Look familiar?

Now let's compare to some Burnout "Achievements"

50 To Won!
Champion! Snagged by winning 50 races online!

Celebrity Status!
Online Superstar! Bagged by getting a Clip in the Top 20 Downloads!

Check it Out!
Lights! Camera! Destruction! Awarded for sharing up a Burnout Clip!

Burnout for PS2 and Xbox have these exact same "Achievements" you just can't view them online.

I am not saying that Achievements are a bad thing AT ALL, I'm just saying that Sony didn't rip off Microsoft whatsoever. Just because Microsoft released LIVE first, doesn't mean Sony is ripping them off, it just means Microsoft got it out their first.

You also have no idea what Sony's "Entitlements" will be, even if they are called that. This is based on someone from EGM blabbing on a podcast.

[Evil Avnovice]

OH I forgot to mention. Every entitlment will give you a WHOPPING 600 points!!

How many entitlement points would you receive if you were to pick up the $500 or $600 dollar bundle on day one? :eek:

[Achilles]

Unlockable Medals
That's a list of some of the Medals you can receive in Ace Combat Zero. Look familiar?So the ones in Ace Combat Zero were compiled into a score that was added to by every game you played? Because that's what achievement points are. They're a score that's made up of goals given to you by every game you've played. Achievement's aren't unlockables, they're a persistant scoring system across every game on the platform.

[Siraris]

So the ones in Ace Combat Zero were compiled into a score that was added to by every game you played? Because that's what achievement points are. They're a score that's made up of goals given to you by every game you've played. Achievement's aren't unlockables, they're a persistant scoring system across every game on the platform.

I don't understand what is so hard to understand. Achievements are the exact same thing as achievements in any game over the past 10 years, only LIVE Achievements are online and kept track of in a different way.

Please explain to me how medals in Ace Combat Zero are any different than completing things in Burnout? I can go into my Gallery in Ace Combat Zero and look at my Medals for achievements, or I can go on LIVE and look at my Achievement points. The only difference is that in one game I can't view them online, and in another I can.

You bolded unlockable for some reason, but explain this to me, what's the difference between completeing something in Ace Combat and getting a medal, and completing something in Burnout and getting Achievement points? They are the EXACT SAME THING. It's like trying to make the argument that getting paid in cash or getting paid by check is any different. In the end, you're getting PAID. You are just carrying a different type of paper.

[bapenguin]

wait..i got it. Everytime you gain your entitlement, instead of a little ding you get Kaz saying, "RIDGGGGGGGGE RACER!!!!!"

[Siraris]

wait..i got it. Everytime you gain your entitlement, instead of a little ding you get Kaz saying, "RIDGGGGGGGGE RACER!!!!!"

See, THAT would be innovative! :)

[Achilles]

Please explain to me how medals in Ace Combat Zero are any different than completing things in Burnout? I can go into my Gallery in Ace Combat Zero and look at my Medals for achievements, or I can go on LIVE and look at my Achievement points. The only difference is that in one game I can't view them online, and in another I can.

You bolded unlockable for some reason, but explain this to me, what's the difference between completeing something in Ace Combat and getting a medal, and completing something in Burnout and getting Achievement points? They are the EXACT SAME THING.In each individual game, yeah it's the same thing, but those are just unlockables, not achievement points. The point of Achievement points is that it's a score compiled from the results of your hard work in every game you've played. The difference is that the ones in Ace Combat do not add to a total score carried over from game to game. Do you think the medals in ace combat would be as addicting to Bap as achievement points are? No, of course they wouldn't, because they're not a persistent reward, if they were the same thing, there wouldn't be that difference.

[Siraris]

In each individual game, yeah it's the same thing, but those are just unlockables, not achievement points. The point of Achievement points is that it's a score compiled from the results of your hard work in every game you've played. The difference is that the ones in Ace Combat do not add to a total score carried over from game to game. Do you think the medals in ace combat would be as addicting to Bap as achievement points are? No, of course they wouldn't, because they're not a persistent reward, if they were the same thing, there wouldn't be that difference.

I'm not arguing that there is not a difference between Achievement points and medals in Ace Combat, not one bit. All I am saying is, Microsoft took these single player elements and put them online. Obviously if you have a single player game you play offline, you can't compare it to others unless you lug your system around. But Microsoft is not doing anything different other than giving you points on their internet service instead of medals in a game.

If I play Burnout Revenge on X-Box, which I have done and completed to 100%, every time I complete an achievement I get some form of achievement. I either get a trophy, or a new car, or a picture of a takedown. If I was playing Burnout on 360, and I did those same things, I get points towards my "Achievement" score that anyone can see instead of a trophy that only I can see. The difference is clear, but it's not that innovative. It's simply a natural progression of something that already existed before, just over a different medium.

It's the same thing as my friend who plays flash games on her computer. You download the game, play it, accumulate points, and when you are done with that level, you can submit your scores to a high-score list. You can see who has completed what level, and how many points they got on that level. You've been able to do this forever, just not in console form as the internet has not been prevelent with console games.

It's also the same thing if you goto an arcade and play a game and get a high score. You put in your initials and now anyone who walks buy or plays the game can see your initials on there.

My ONLY point is, people are chasticizing Sony for ripping off Achievements, when Microsoft ripped them off from online games that have been around for 10 years now, as well as offline games, but changing the formula slightly.

[Achilles]

I'm not arguing that there is not a difference between Achievement points and medals in Ace Combat, not one bit...

My ONLY point is, people are chasticizing Sony for ripping off Achievements, when Microsoft ripped them off from online games that have been around for 10 years now, as well as offline games, but changing the formula slightly.Um, if you take something, and then change it so that it does something else, you're not ripping it off. If Sony's 'whatchamacallits' do something different than the Achievement points, say if they're not an over-all score, but every time you unlock one you can buy music from the Sony store, they'll be taking the idea and doing something new with it, not ripping MS off.

[Jack B]

I'm not arguing that there is not a difference between Achievement points and medals in Ace Combat, not one bit. All I am saying is, Microsoft took these single player elements and put them online. Obviously if you have a single player game you play offline, you can't compare it to others unless you lug your system around. But Microsoft is not doing anything different other than giving you points on their internet service instead of medals in a game.

If I play Burnout Revenge on X-Box, which I have done and completed to 100%, every time I complete an achievement I get some form of achievement. I either get a trophy, or a new car, or a picture of a takedown. If I was playing Burnout on 360, and I did those same things, I get points towards my "Achievement" score that anyone can see instead of a trophy that only I can see. The difference is clear, but it's not that innovative. It's simply a natural progression of something that already existed before, just over a different medium.

It's the same thing as my friend who plays flash games on her computer. You download the game, play it, accumulate points, and when you are done with that level, you can submit your scores to a high-score list. You can see who has completed what level, and how many points they got on that level. You've been able to do this forever, just not in console form as the internet has not been prevelent with console games.

It's also the same thing if you goto an arcade and play a game and get a high score. You put in your initials and now anyone who walks buy or plays the game can see your initials on there.

My ONLY point is, people are chasticizing Sony for ripping off Achievements, when Microsoft ripped them off from online games that have been around for 10 years now, as well as offline games, but changing the formula slightly.

Actually, Sony was using Entitlements with their first games used by cavemen. So, Sony is once again being copied by Microsoft. Back then Sony's Entitlements were in the form of special cave drawings achieved for killing Saber Toothed Tigers, Mastadon's and the like.

It's was originally thought of by Kaz's great, great, great, great.... ancestors. Damn Microsoft. Why can't they come up with their own ideas!

Seriously, I don't understand the "so and so ripped off someone else" arguments. Yeah, you should be rewarded by taking a chance and being original, but following and improving on great ideas like the Halo console controller scheme, shouldn't be looked upon as a bad thing.

Every 2nd grader understands the concept of Zero, but even the ancient Greeks didn't understand it... And they weren't considered stupid by any stretch. We continually learn from others and build on that knowledge.

Sony shouldn't be chastized for copying Microsoft. Microsoft should be given credit for successfully establishing Live, Microtransactions (yeah, I know some are bigger than micros and Valve had is sooner in the PC market etc.)Acheivement Points and Arcade. They are all good ideas, that I'd hope both Sony and Nintendo would adopt and even improve. That's the way it should work.

Kaz complaining about Microsoft copying does get on my nerves as well as all the Microsoft fans complaining about Sony doing the same thing. We should give credit to Microsoft and move on...

[Siraris]

Actually, Sony was using Entitlements with their first games used by cavemen. So, Sony is once again being copied by Microsoft. Back then Sony's Entitlements were in the form of special cave drawings achieved for killing Saber Toothed Tigers, Mastadon's and the like.

It's was originally thought of by Kaz's great, great, great, great.... ancestors. Damn Microsoft. Why can't they come up with their own ideas!

Seriously, I don't understand the "so and so ripped off someone else" arguments. Yeah, you should be rewarded by taking a chance and being original, but following and improving on great ideas like the Halo console controller scheme, shouldn't be looked upon as a bad thing.

Every 2nd grader understands the concept of Zero in math, but even the ancient Greeks didn't understand it... And they weren't considered stupid by any stretch. We continually learn from others and build on that knowledge.

Sony shouldn't be chastized for copying Microsoft. Microsoft should be given credit for establishing Live, Microtransactions (yeah, I know some are bigger than micros and Valve had is sooner in the PC market etc.) and Acheivement Points and Arcade, but they are all good ideas, that I'd hope both Sony and Ninetendo would adopt and even improve. That's the way it should work.

Kaz complaining about Microsoft copying does get on my nerves as well as all the Microsoft fans complaining about Sony doing the same thing. We should give credit to Microsoft and move on...

While your initial comment is a silly swipe at me - since in no way was my argument saying that Sony invented achievements, it was an argument that Microsoft may have impelmented them, but they have been around for a long time in many games just not implemented in the same way - the rest of your comments are dead on and I could not agree more.

[absolut taco]

My ONLY point is, people are chasticizing Sony for ripping off Achievements, when Microsoft ripped them off from online games that have been around for 10 years now, as well as offline games, but changing the formula slightly.
You need to go to the doctor, your oral diarrhea is flaring up. If you take something that exists and improves it a helluva lot, like MS did with the achievements then it's hardly a ripoff is it? If Sony improves MS's concept it's not a ripoff either. However, if they simply change the name to entitlements, it's a textbook ripoff, and one with a retarded name...

[Kamalot]

You need to go to the doctor, your oral diarrhea is flaring up. If you take something that exists and improves it a helluva lot, like MS did with the achievements then it's hardly a ripoff is it? If Sony improves MS's concept it's not a ripoff either. However, if they simply change the name to entitlements, it's a textbook ripoff, and one with a retarded name...
Don't get all up on Sirias. He can't help defending anything Sony does. Cut him some slack.

[fitbabits]

Don't get all up on Sirias. He can't help defending anything Sony does. Cut him some slack.
You know, their mission gets jerkier as it continues.

[Siraris]

You need to go to the doctor, your oral diarrhea is flaring up. If you take something that exists and improves it a helluva lot, like MS did with the achievements then it's hardly a ripoff is it? If Sony improves MS's concept it's not a ripoff either. However, if they simply change the name to entitlements, it's a textbook ripoff, and one with a retarded name...

I'm sorry, I don't see making it so that you can show other people your achievements as "improving it a helluva a lot". Maybe it's because I don't own a 360 and I'm used to playing games offline or on the PC, but I don't see how getting an achievement and having other people look at it is anything more than bragging rights to increase the size of your e-penis. Maybe I will change my mind when I actually experience it, but it doesn't seem like that incredible of an innovation over what we had before.

My original argument was simply that I don't think that Sony is "ripping off" Microsoft if they implement their own achievement system, regardless of what it's called. I can understand where people would say that Sony ripped off Nintendo with the motion controller, but this is just silly.

And the funniest part is, we have no information whatsoever on this service except that some editor from EGM said he heard it was going to be called "Entitlements". It could be 10x better than the LIVE achievement system, and it could have some awesome name, yet because it's Sony, it has to be bad.

[Achilles]

Maybe it's because I don't own a 360 and I'm used to playing games offline or on the PC, but I don't see how getting an achievement and having other people look at it is anything more than bragging rights to increase the size of your e-penis. Maybe I will change my mind when I actually experience it, but it doesn't seem like that incredible of an innovation over what we had before.I guess you've never wanted to show anything you've acomplished in a game to anyone who's not in the room. And you've probably never wanted to have a record of what you've acomplished in a game that you can view from outside the game.It could be 10x better than the LIVE achievement system, and it could have some awesome name, yet because it's Sony, it has to be bad.This thread has 130+ posts. Point to one that says the system will be bad. People are saying they’re ripping-off MS, this is pointed out because Sony’s official comment that MS has never had an original idea and all they do is rip Sony off. Most people want Sony to rip Live off (and improve it, and make it free), but if they're going to be arrogant and say that MS only rips off Sony, people will mock them. I don't think anyone here is bashing Sony for taking the good idea that Live had, they're bashing them for the potential name (lame name), and because Sony has put forward that all MS does is rip them off.

[Siraris]

I guess you've never wanted to show anything you've acomplished in a game to anyone who's not in the room. And you've probably never wanted to have a record of what you've acomplished in a game that you can view from outside the game.

To be honest, not really. If I do something really good in a game I either tell a friend about it and they believe me, because they are my friend, or I get a good enough feeling just knowing I did it myself. That's just me, I'm absolutely not knocking anyone else for wanting to do it. And knowing the internet, I could have the highest score out there in most games, and people would just chastize me and say I had too much time on my hands or something.


This thread has 130+ posts. Point to one that says the system will be bad. People are saying they’re ripping-off MS, this is pointed out because Sony’s official comment that MS has never had an original idea and all they do is rip Sony off. Most people want Sony to rip Live off (and improve it, and make it free), but if they're going to be arrogant and say that MS only rips off Sony, people will mock them. I don't think anyone here is bashing Sony for taking the good idea that Live had, they're bashing them for the potential name (lame name), and because Sony has put forward that all MS does is rip them off.

Ok don't even try and play that card. I never said anyone said that the system would specifically be bad, but so far people have said that Sony has ripped off the system (without even knowing what it entails), it has an awful name (without even knowing the name), and also taken every opportunity to shit all over Sony for every other reason under the sun. That's what I meant. I think I even saw someone blame global warming on Sony.

And do you really think that anyone who worked for a company would admit to ripping off something else? Would Microsoft ever admit to all the things they ripped off from OSX? That would be career suicide, so please don't even try that. "Oh yeah, we stole all their ideas and just put it in ours. We really have no innovation whatsoever in our product, but hopefully you'll buy it anyways!". Even if that was the case, no company on the planet would say that.

[destoo]

Numerical replacements don't apply to proper nouns. Moron.

You mean like Jennifer 8. Lee (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jennifer_8_Lee) ?

back at ya.

[Taco]

Interesting factoid.

Just in case, you know I wasn't being serious.

[Achilles]

It could be 10x better than the LIVE achievement system, and it could have some awesome name, yet because it's Sony, it has to be bad.I never said anyone said that the system would specifically be bad. Okay. Do you see how it may have come off that way? I get that you're pissed people are mocking Sony for this, which is why I tried to explain why they're doing that.And do you really think that anyone who worked for a company would admit to ripping off something else? Would Microsoft ever admit to all the things they ripped off from OSX? That would be career suicide, so please don't even try that. "Oh yeah, we stole all their ideas and just put it in ours. We really have no innovation whatsoever in our product, but hopefully you'll buy it anyways!". Even if that was the case, no company on the planet would say that.Do you believe Sony when they say that MS doesn’t have original ideas and they just rip Sony off? I’m not sure what the point of your comment is. I was saying that people pointing the finger at Sony and yelling "ripoff!" is the result of Sony's comment that all MS does is rip them off. People wouldn't criticize the decision to make Sony Live, they want them to, but you have to understand the desire to point out the hypocrisy in it.

A question: Would you say that, if Sony came up with a system that tracked your accomplishments in a game, tallied them into a score that would allow you to get up to 1000 points for each game as determined by the developer of that game, and then tally that score into a ‘total score’ for all the games you played, and offered a way for you to access a list of every accomplishment that contributed to that score; that each component of that score was the exact same thing as the medals from Ace Combat?

[Siraris]

A question: Would you say that, if Sony came up with a system that tracked your accomplishments in a game, tallied them into a score that would allow you to get up to 1000 points for each game as determined by the developer of that game, and then tally that score into a ‘total score’ for all the games you played, and offered a way for you to access a list of every accomplishment that contributed to that score; that each component of that score was the exact same thing as the medals from Ace Combat?

No, I don't think that, but if Ace Combat tallied up all the medals and assigned them point values and then gave you a point total, then yes, it would be the same. In its current state, no, the medal system you get in Ace Combat does not give you points.

Why I would want it to is still a bit foggy to me.

[Philonious]

Alright alright. At some point about 14 pages ago this got pointless. Achievements are cool, if simply a tool to get people to buy more games to collect more achievements to prove to all the other gamers what an empty void our lives truly are, and I'm glad Sony copied them from MS. The name Entitlement is stupid, but I still think something got lost in translation. The best thing EVER would be if they were equated across the two platforms... Or even better, you could collect them across the two platforms... But that would NEVER happen. *Sigh*

And seriously, who cares who did what first, we're living the dream of capitalism... Two corporations who are vying for our dollars and are trying to lure us in with the best product... Why the hell do we fanboy one way or another... These people aren't our friends. They do not care about us. All they want is our money... They'd happily piss on you and your dear old grandma if it made them more money so stop being little corporate whores.

[NeoSuplex]

Bottomline: the reason Achievments are considered innovative on MSs part is because they enforced it and made it span all games. That's the big change from past versions. Saying it's not innovative because there were similar things on separate games is like saying a world wide internet isn't innovative because of closed business networks. There really is a huge diffrence.

[Johan]

I think Siraris makes some good points (for one ex: "I don't see how getting an achievement and having other people look at it is anything more than bragging rights to increase the size of your e-penis"). QFT.

Also, achievements (or whatever) are ultimately unreliable in terms of really knowing a person's true skills and actual achievements in a game. For example, the XSATA device (by Datel) that connects your 360 to a PC can be (IS being) used to actually load game saves onto 360s that are from gamers who have already earned the achievements for you...voila, boost your points without actually playing the game...you can do this as long as you have the disk and plug it in once ; so rent the game and there you go! Works for most 360 games. And even if you don't use this device, you may have friends playing on your console and earning points for you (I played my brother's 360 Geometry Wars and earned him a bunch of the achievements).

I personally would LOVE to see the freaking achievements disappear forever (I know...many of you love them), but I know they won't, because they've made 'achievement whores' become game junkies, buying and playing games they would never have bought. But let's not kid ourselves that they are actually representative of a gamer's skill...you have NO guarantee that the person's score is genuine.

btw: I have the XSATA, but as you can see from my pathetic gamerscore (in the 3,000 range), I use it to load original Xbox saves to my 360...it's a gas for that! I don't give a crap about my freaking gamerscore

[Achilles]

if Ace Combat tallied up all the medals and assigned them point values and then gave you a point total, then yes, it would be the same. In its current state, no, the medal system you get in Ace Combat does not give you points.Good deal. I think you should apply this sort of moderate thinking to the stuff that MS does. Even if you’re a big fan of a company, it’s best not to sound like a crazy fan-boy or people aren’t going to listen to what you have to say. It’s also not so great for you because you lose sight of what other people are doing.
but explain this to me, what's the difference between completeing something in Ace Combat and getting a medal, and completing something in Burnout and getting Achievement points? They are the EXACT SAME THING.Edit: Just pointing out how your initial comment would have caused people to be confused. You made much better points later that were way more factual. I’d have to say that whether or not Sony gets dinged for ‘ripping off’ MS on the Achievement points thing is entirely up to how they do it. But even if it’s exactly the same, I think most people will be glad it’s there, even if they point out that it’s the same thing.

That’s my take on it anyway.

[Jack B]

I don't compete with Achievements. I get them when I get them. Sometimes, it's fun to try and get a few, that I know about, but mostly I play games for fun.

I do however like Achievements, because I can look at someone elses and get a quick sense for their likes in games. I also, tend to look at my friends and then it prompts a message to say, "hey, I noticed you've played a lot of XYZ, game you should try XYZ or we should get together for some multiplayer etc.". Or maybe, "I've been thinking about giving that a try. You've gotten 750 points, so you've probably played quite a bit... What do you think?". It's not a competition for everyone, but it's informative and helps better describe what you've done and what games/genres you enjoy...

I hope Sony and Nintendo implement a good system. I think they will as it shouldn't be that hard to do, now that everyone knows how they work...

The other parts of Live, I'm not as confident in, but Achievements should be OK.

[Siraris]

Good deal. I think you should apply this sort of moderate thinking to the stuff that MS does. Even if you’re a big fan of a company, it’s best not to sound like a crazy fan-boy or people aren’t going to listen to what you have to say. It’s also not so great for you because you lose sight of what other people are doing.

Edit: Just pointing out how your initial comment would have caused people to be confused. You made much better points later that were way more factual. I’d have to say that whether or not Sony gets dinged for ‘ripping off’ MS on the Achievement points thing is entirely up to how they do it. But even if it’s exactly the same, I think most people will be glad it’s there, even if they point out that it’s the same thing.

That’s my take on it anyway.

If people take my comments as being fanboish, there's nothing I can really do. As you point out, I'm a big fan of Sony, but I actually am becoming more appreciative of the 360. Although I am not planning on getting one presently because there aren't any real games for it that I want, I can appreciate that Microsoft is bringing some stuff to the table that people are enjoying.

I'm pretty passionate about things I care about and although some people may interpret that as being fanboish, I personally don't think the two should be equated. It's also quite difficult to judge what someone is saying from one post that they make, since much can be misinterpreted just by reading something someone has typed. I'm always happy to elaborate on what I meant, and I am in no way too full of myself to not admit when I am in the wrong, or to accept someone elses point of view. I also appreciate you taking the time to make this post :)

[mikeohara]

Sony's stealing shit ... no wonder the price of the PS3 is double that of the competition.

[EvoG]

...People are saying they’re ripping-off MS, this is pointed out because Sony’s official comment that MS has never had an original idea and all they do is rip Sony off. Most people want Sony to rip Live off (and improve it, and make it free), but if they're going to be arrogant and say that MS only rips off Sony, people will mock them. I don't think anyone here is bashing Sony for taking the good idea that Live had, they're bashing them for the potential name (lame name), and because Sony has put forward that all MS does is rip them off.

Ok don't even try and play that card. I never said anyone said that the system would specifically be bad, but so far people have said that Sony has ripped off the system (without even knowing what it entails)...

...but people say that because...

I get that you're pissed people are mocking Sony for this, which is why I tried to explain why they're doing that. Do you believe Sony when they say that MS doesn’t have original ideas and they just rip Sony off? I’m not sure what the point of your comment is. I was saying that people pointing the finger at Sony and yelling "ripoff!" is the result of Sony's comment that all MS does is rip them off. People wouldn't criticize the decision to make Sony Live, they want them to, but you have to understand the desire to point out the hypocrisy in it.

Siraris, I'm realizing that you're perhaps misplacing peoples disdain for Sony, including(I believe) some of my earlier posts which started us talking. The above back and forth from you and Achilles is an example of a key criticism of Sony that a lot of us have that have turned us(otherwise PS2 fans) off. I (obnoxiously) highlighted important parts of the argument you didn't actually address, twice. The reason is to ask if you understand this and at least acknowledge the fact that its silly that Sony said:


PSM: Sony and Microsoft seem to be taking the exact same path.

Hirai: We seem to. Every time we go down a path, we look behind and they're right there - we just can't shake these guys. I wish that they would come up with some strategies of their own, but they seem to be going down the path of everything we do. If you look at their strategy in other business areas as well, they tend to do that.


...in light of Sony's developments on the PS3? This isn't about ripping-off, the unnecesary Blu-Ray to inflate licensing coffers, or even really about lacking innovation, but rather then inflammatory comments and arrogance Sony has displayed.

In all fairness, a lot of people DO 'arbitrarily' bash Sony, which smacks of fanboyism as much as it does from many Sony supporters...but do you honestly think ALL of it is purely from MS or Nintendo fan's, and not from objective thinkers who would otherwise have no problem with Sony, considering that a portion of those 100 million PS2's sold went to most of us gamers here?

So I have to ask with all sincerity:

Why are you SO blindly defensive regarding Sony?

Assuming for a moment you're not a shill :D, or Sony "knowing where your family lives" :cool:, why are you absolutely adamant in supporting Sony? I mean ultimately, our hobby is about the games, right? You said that you have no problems with the 360, yet no games interest you. Yet...if you're even remotely interested in any of the games the PS3 is going to have at launch and around launch into early to middle 2007, then I find it impossible to believe to such a high degree, that you'd have no interest then in Mass Effect, Saints Row, Dead Rising, Lost Planet or dear god Gears of War, for starters? I mean hell, EVERYONE wants MGS4, but shit thats really it for heavy hitters and thats not until MAYBE 2007.

Are you keen on Resistance: Fall of Man but yet not Gears of War? This is why I have to wonder about your absolute die-hard attitude towards Sony, if it were simply about the games and not a brand name.

If MS or Nintendo started spouting shit and offering suspect product, I'm sure most of us would be bashing on that bandwagon in no time...so why are you immune to Sony's flailings that most people see(hence the staggering amount of bashing going on towards Sony), including the media?

I'm being completely serious, and not at all trying to antagonize, just a simple question. :)


Ultimately (to address the topic), as terrible as this name is, I'm all for it as I have surprisingly come to really enjoy achievements on the 360, so more is better.


Cheers

[Hilden]

I find this interesting in light of the recent "Entitlements" announcement.

From PSM-Regarding MS:

Hirai: ".....Every time we go down a path, we look behind and they're right there - we just can't shake these guys. I wish that they would come up with some strategies of their own, but they seem to be going down the path of everything we do. If you look at their strategy in other business areas as well, they tend to do that."

It's amazing that these execs can even look at themselves in the mirror.

[Watership]

INCONCEIVABLE!


Inconceivablements.

[NightRain]

Microsoft's achievements was a great idea, a lot of people are into collecting those points and play games just to get points. The more points you have on Xbox 360 the more games you'e played.

What Sony should do is add points to your account with every new game and the more points you have the more you suck. Basically you need to buy/rent the game and complete the objectives and they will subtract points from your account, this will give you a lower score and they could base their system on a lower score being better. Also a great name would be fuckedintheassiments.

What do you think?

[phantomhitman]

dude, i g0t s0 many 3ntitl3m3nts last night!11!!
oh well, maybe they should just buy a shitload of 360s, paint them black, and release them as ps3s. That way they can get them out on time, under budget, and can safely remain in the realm of dumbest criminals caught on tape.

[IRONGUSTAV]

Don't get all up on Sirias. He can't help defending anything Sony does. Cut him some slack.


look who is talking :)

[bean19]

Sony acheivements should be called "bling".

[absolut taco]

Gamerscore don't mean shit, but when I can see that one of my friends has a Hexic achievement that I don't have, then it's war!

[Kamalot]

look who is talking :)That's why it is funny! You KNOW I'm always here to back up Sony no matter how retarted their decisions are. :rolleyes:

[Mr. Lake]

That's why it is funny! You KNOW I'm always here to back up Sony no matter how retarted their decisions are. :rolleyes:
Sony: Follow me guys!
Sony does a backflip into lava...
Kamalot shrugs
Kamalot: When in Rome...

Funnier when in some other context I suppose. :p

[rainbowblack]

Gamerscore don't mean shit, but when I can see that one of my friends has a Hexic achievement that I don't have, then it's war!

Thats what makes the achievement system great. My friends and I are the same way. never do i go and check the leader boards to see my standing. and with a 2666 GS why the hell should i?

[Jack B]

I think Siraris makes some good points (for one ex: "I don't see how getting an achievement and having other people look at it is anything more than bragging rights to increase the size of your e-penis"). QFT.

.....

I personally would LOVE to see the freaking achievements disappear forever (I know...many of you love them), but I know they won't, because they've made 'achievement whores' become game junkies, buying and playing games they would never have bought.

Honestly, Johan123, I think you're being a bit paranoid and insecure about your score. Achievements are fun and a record of your game travels, but not a measure of your e-penis. I don't know how big your e-penis is and quite frankly I don't care either. :eek: I doubt it's that big a deal to your friends either... :)

I think the Siraris "e-penis" comment applies to a very very small minority. I've been on Live since day 2 and with over 100 friends on my list have yet to have anyone mention anything about the "size" of my score... Achievements are useful information...

With about 3 million Xbox Live members I'm probably behind about 1.5 million or more.... That's not what it's all about. Try to just ignore it or have fun with it... :)

[Zanzibar]

Idea=good. Name=bad.

Why not 'Awards' or 'Award Points'?

[Kamalot]

Electronic-Point Engine Numerical Indicator System (tm)

E-PENIS points?

[J3DI]

I'm not sure if this was mentioned already... doesn't Microsoft own the patent for and the gaining of achievements? I remember reading that some where.

I guess it won't infringe on MS as long as points aren't awarded when you gain an achiev... "entitlement."

I still find it a bit creepy... it'll be like playing a wii60 with a PS controller.

[RorschachCCCLX]

How about "Entertitlements?" you are Entitled to be entertained! (and miss your rent/car payment because y ou went out and spend your month's worth of pay on a video games machine.) I get it, its Entitlements (welfare) because thats what you'll need to survive after buying a 5th Dimention triversing device.

[Chang3]

I dont know if this thread will be up dated, but theres the super rumor called "PS Home", which will pawn both Live and Wii online...

Things are looking good for PS3.

[Kamalot]

I dont know if this thread will be up dated, but theres the super rumor called "PS Home", which will pawn both Live and Wii online...

Things are looking good for PS3.
Your word choice is interesting.

Perhaps you mean that PS3 is nothing more than a pawn in the game between Microsoft and Nintendo?

Or perhaps you mean that Sony is pawning off its Playstation division to pay for the loss them incur on each console?

Or perhaps you are a pawn to Sony's hype machine (http://www.iplayalot.com/sony/hypemachine.gif), like a puppet or hostage.

But, yes. We have all heard the rumors.

[jpc_theoneandonly]

Don't you see, they are leading! They are pushing the industry forward with an integrated high definition video player, free network play left for developers to figure out, (in essence creating freedom for developers to create network functionality anyway they choose just like the ps2!), they are making progressive steps towards copy protected games that will work on just one console, thus cutting down on piracy therefore protecting consumers, AND they have the motion sensing technologies of the wii, and now the far superior entitlement system that the 360 has! Don't you see they are leading the industry and then some, this is more than a console, it is a Computer Entertainment system!!! I would buy a PS3 even if it didn't have any games!!!

*sarcasm off*



Hmm..a Blu-Ray player not covered by warranty which can break and cost twice as much as the system originally did to replace. And as we all know, all new consoles tend to have their bugs. As for the motion controller, not as good as the Wii. A few tilts here and there, big deal. Atleast the Wii took it above and beyond that to make it a whole new experience. Granted, the graphics are no better than the GC but gameplay is a big factor. So far, the PS3 has failed to impress. Other than the fact that it can play blu-ray which I think will lose against HDDVD, it isnt offering me anything new that I cant get from my trusty Xbox360. Needless to say, I am a MS fan. For those that agree, visit www.smashmyps3.com.

[Banacek]

Come on, this tread was deader than Jesus.

[fitbabits]

Come on, this tread was deader than Jesus.
And as such will now be closed.

Closing thread due to mass necrosis... PM me if you have any questions about why this thread was closed.