Matchmaking Improvements Planned for Halo 2 (Xbox)

[fitbabits]

Team Xbox (http://www.teamxbox.com) is reporting that Bungie has revealed some of the improvements they are working on for Halo 2 - including matchmaking enhancements.

You can read the full article here (http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/11456/Halo-3-Matchmaking-Playlist-Improvements/).

Ahhh, matchmaking! I love it, you love it. If you're saying 'I don't love it, jerk!' then go play customs and leave the rest of us to our fun.

To the point, the next playlist update is currently in the works, testing will begin next week and we have a bit of information to share with you regarding what changes will take place. First and foremost, I'll cover the removal of Rumble Hardcore. For the vast majority of players this will not make you crawl into a corner and cry a thousand tears. While Rumble Hardcore does provide some intense gameplay which is popular amongst a small group of our fans, it's simply not popular enough to hold its weight as a matchmaking playlist. Perhaps you're asking 'Why do you remove playlists, why not just leave them all and add more?' which is a question we find ourselves answering on a fairly regular basis, so here's the short and sweet version.
Can anyone comment on the matchmaking system on Halo 2 and whether or not what Frankie says would be a true improvement if implemented the way he says? I've not played it online, so I'm looking for some constructive comments.

Editor's Note - UPDATE: There was an error with this news article when it was originally posted. All of the information is related to Halo 2, not Halo 3.

[Zeal]

In other words, Halo 3 will not support the HORRIBLE and fucking STUPID matchmaking system used with Halo 2.

Just give up a server list, dumbasses.

Also, the most important part of the article was:

Matchmaking isn't really serving its intended purpose any longer.

[fitbabits]

In other words, Halo 3 will not sipport HORRIBLE and fucking STUPID matchmaking system used with Halo 2.

Just give up a server list, dumbasses.

Also, the most important part of the article was:
Now that's what I call a constructive comment! :rolleyes:

[Zeal]

At least give me enough time to correct my typo. Damn.

[Wyrm]

I fucking love the matchmaking when it works. 85-90% of the time, it does. I dont have to sift through a thousand servers to find one that's not too shitty to play on, and when I do, I dont have to download 500 mods before I can join the server.

The improvements here are going to be very nice, I can't wait for implementaiton.

[fitbabits]

At least give me enough time to correct my typo. Damn.
If you're not fast, you're last! :D

[DeadScreenSky]

Just give up a server list, dumbasses.
No no no NO. The last thing that would make the series better is going back to the dark ages of PC FPS gaming.

And Frankie's whole post is basically about how awesome matchmaking is, so thankfully there's no way Bungie will remove it for Halo 3.

[DeadScreenSky]

None of Frankie's post seems to be about Halo 3 matchmaking, so I'm not sure what TeamXbox is thinking. This is just the latest Halo 2 matchmaking update - Bungie has done this several times already, and they'll probably be doing it even after H3 sees release.

[*Legion*]

I initially wanted a server list too, but you know what? MOST gamers are HORRIBLE, TERRIBLE server admins.

Putting game settings in the hands of the players is a bad idea 95% of the time. That is, unless you like playing the same three maps over and over again, and experiencing every stupid rule/limitation combination a bored 11-year-old ADD kiddie can come up with. NO THANKS.

[Deathbane27]

Um... Zeal? Fitbabits? That idiot who wrote the "summary" on the TeamXbox article? Did any of the three of you bother actually reading the update?

Halo 3 was not mentioned anywhere in that weekly update. Anywhere. They're removing the under-used playlists and changing some existing ones in Halo 2 matchmaking, which they've done 4 or 5 times now. There's no reason to believe Halo 3's system is going to be any different.


Please, fix the headline. And move it off the front page, this really isn't news once you realize the TeamXbox guy was stoned.


EDIT FOR EXTRA UMPH:

:D :D :D :D THE LINK IS DEAD, TEAMXBOX ALREADY REALIZED THEY WERE STONED AND PULLED THE ARTICLE. TIME TO REMOVE THIS FROM THE FRONT PAGE, MKAY? :D :D :D :D



Zeal, you're extra retarded.

When a playlist drops in usage and users have a hard time finding a match, matchmaking isn't really serving its intended purpose any longer.

I'm no longer convinced you're just trolling, you'd have to actually believe the shit you're posting in order to deliberately cut the first half of that sentence off.

[Heretic Machine]

I fucking hate Halo 2's matchmaking system. I rank it down there with Animal Crossing DS. Besides the fact that most Halo 2 maps suck, the two or three good ones are either rare on the matchmaking system, or don't show up at all (Waterworks). Don't give me that "Go play custom match" bullshit either. I'd fucking love to go play a custom match, except Bungie decided that you can only setup and play custom matches with people you already know. What about when I just want to hop on and play a game? I have to put up with the matchmaking-system from hell? No thanks.

[Borgboy]

Please, fix the headline. And move it off the front page, this really isn't news once you realize the TeamXbox guy was stoned.
Yeah, seriously. I don't know how in the world you could be confused by this. :confused: They are obviously talking about Halo 2 Matchmaking.

In other words, Halo 3 will not support the HORRIBLE and fucking STUPID matchmaking system used with Halo 2.
That's not what he was saying at all. Go and read the Bungie update again. He likes matchmaking, and thinks it is great. He was explaining why some playlists are removed, and others are kept. Your quote is about unpopular playlists, not matchmaking in general.

I fucking hate Halo 2's matchmaking system. I rank it down there with Animal Crossing DS. Besides the fact that most Halo 2 maps suck, the two or three good ones are either rare on the matchmaking system, or don't show up at all (Waterworks). Don't give me that "Go play custom match" bullshit either. I'd fucking love to go play a custom match, except Bungie decided that you can only setup and play custom matches with people you already know. What about when I just want to hop on and play a game? I have to put up with the matchmaking-system from hell? No thanks.
I don't understand what you don't like about their matchmaking system, I think it's great. There is certainly room for improvement, but it's definitely not a "matchmaking-system from hell." Although...You are entitled to your own opinion. But here is a tip: Waterworks is designed for a large number of players, so it's only in the big playlists. If you play BTB Skirmish, it comes up quite often actually. It's not in the other playlists because it's such a huge map that it'd be a miracle if you found anyone to kill in the smaller playlists.

[The Iron Weasel]

I'm down with Matchmaking, its always treated me fairly well, but then again I dug all the maps.

[Heretic Machine]

I don't understand what you don't like about their matchmaking system, I think it's great. There is certainly room for improvement, but it's definitely not a "matchmaking-system from hell." Although...You are entitled to your own opinion. But here is a tip: Waterworks is designed for a large number of players, so it's only in the big playlists. If you play BTB Skirmish, it comes up quite often actually. It's not in the other playlists because it's such a huge map that it'd be a miracle if you found anyone to kill in the smaller playlists.

I don't like their matchmaking system because I can't play the modes I want, or the maps I want, when I want to. And that is all I want from a multiplayer game. If they had left things exactly the way things are, but added the ability to join custom matches from a server list, I'd be happy. I think their matchmaking system is great for ranked matches, but since I hate ranked matches to begin with, it does nothing but gimp the whole game for me.

[Borgboy]

I don't like their matchmaking system because I can't play the modes I want, or the maps I want, when I want to. And that is all I want from a multiplayer game. If they had left things exactly the way things are, but added the ability to join custom matches from a server list, I'd be happy. I think their matchmaking system is great for ranked matches, but since I hate ranked matches to begin with, it does nothing but gimp the whole game for me.
I can respect that. As long as you aren't hating for the sole purpose of hating. Which you aren't. While I am content letting matchmaking pick maps out for me, I can understand wanting to control it yourself. You'd think it wouldn't be too hard to implement a system where you pick a map like you do the playlists, and it matches you through that (and other options). Maybe in Halo 3? :o

[Heretic Machine]

I can respect that. As long as you aren't hating for the sole purpose of hating. Which you aren't. While I am content letting matchmaking pick maps out for me, I can understand wanting to control it yourself. You'd think it wouldn't be too hard to implement a system where you pick a map like you do the playlists, and it matches you through that (and other options). Maybe in Halo 3? :o

It entirely depends on whether or not they want to allow people to really play outside of their ranking system. Right now, in Halo 2, the only way you can do that is by playing the Practice modes, which are just like the ranked games but without the ranking points. Personally, I think they should just copy what PD0 did with it's matchmaking, which is essentially what I outlined above. I think several other 360 games have done the exact same thing (especially XBLA games).

[J Arcane]

See I loved the flexibility of Halo 2's multiplayer. You could tweak it almost to your hearts content. It was almost on par with Perfect Dark, in that you could invent whole new game modes just through multiplayer settings.

I had a whole Counterstrike mode I designed just with the multiplayer settings, but trouble was, I couldn't play it with anyone, because of the weird ass matchmaking system.

A move away from that wouldn't be unappreciated. At least the ability to do custom games with more than just your friends list would be nice.

[Gpig]

If they don't give us a server list in Halo 3, I don't see any reason for me to buy it. I liked a handful of maps in Halo 2, and I didn't like having to play shitty maps constantly because of match making. You can keep matchmaking, but at least add a server list option for people who don't happen to like 110% of the shit in Halo 2. A cramped indoor map with redundant purple textures and no vehicles? What are there, 10 maps like that? Yeah I'm really glad I'm forced to play this to get to the maps that actually take advantage of some of the cooler things in Halo.

I'll use Counter-Strike as an example. When I play Counter-Strike, I can filter for inferno or whatever map I feel like. They also have a quickmatch option so if I want to get thrown into a fucking siege or vertigo server randomly instead of inferno, I can. Halo 2 only has that quickmatch option. I felt shortchanged when I got the game. Maybe if they created a playlist option of "shit" and put all the maps I don't like on that and then a playlist titled "Gpig" with just the maps I liked they could get by without a server list.

As for the fact that I can play maps that I like in custom games if I just invite some friends? That's a great system that I haven't had to use since Doom and I'm glad it's back. No really, I'm glad, it really helps give Halo 2 an old school vibe.

edit: This is what Nintendo does for all of its games, so at least I can say that xbox live is an excellent service and most of the games don't have these problems. Halo 2's multiplayer is set up like all of Nintendo's online games.

[DeadScreenSky]

I initially wanted a server list too, but you know what? MOST gamers are HORRIBLE, TERRIBLE server admins.

Putting game settings in the hands of the players is a bad idea 95% of the time. That is, unless you like playing the same three maps over and over again, and experiencing every stupid rule/limitation combination a bored 11-year-old ADD kiddie can come up with. NO THANKS.
Exactly. When I first started playing Halo 2 I was mad I couldn't just pick my favorite maps, but once you give it a chance it really grows on you. I know if I play Halo 2 online I'll nearly always get well balanced server settings with players that are roughly my skill level. That kind of thing (particularly the last part) is a quantum leap over what I've put up with PC FPS games since their inception.

And there's always custom games as an option. I have no idea why people whining angrily about matchmaking wouldn't just get some people together from their undoubtedly huge friends list and do that. ;)

[Deathbane27]

I have no idea why people whining angrily about matchmaking wouldn't just get some people together from their undoubtedly huge friends list and do that. ;)

If by "undoubtedly huge" you mean "the friends list limit is WAY too small for there to be a snowball's chance in hell of their being 15 others on and willing to play some ChaosCTF at 3 in the morning when I get off work, assuming I could somehow find all of them in the first place", then yes, you have a point.

Sadly, that's not what you meant, so you don't. Shoo.

[DeadScreenSky]

What, do your friends not have their own friends they could invite too? :confused:

[Deathbane27]

What, do your friends not have their own friends they could invite too? :confused:

You're confusing "friends" with what would actually be required for that to work, which is "list of people I can tolerate, that are on when I'm on, that are interested in generally the same types of custom games that I am, and are willing to populate their friends list only with the other people who fit these requirements in such a manner as to maximize the possiblity of getting 8 of us into a party at 3 am, and are also willing to put up with the pain in the ass enough to actually still have an active Live account."

Or, they could just list all custom games currently running and accepting more players that are connected to Xbox Live, just like how it appears in System Link now.

It's a real shame when it's less of a pain in the ass to just use Xbox Connect.

[easi]

Is there a firefox extension that will let me filter out Halo newsposts?

[SaintArnold]

I loved Halo 2 matchmaking--it's one of the novel elements that makes it so much fun. This system is what avoids having every single server playing the same map (Facing Worlds CTF anybody?).

Agree with the "obviously not Halo 3" posts as well.

[Vandenh]

Zeal is an idiot. H2 matchmaking is awesome.... I just love it. I expect every game to have something similar (for ranked games) but sadly no-one (yes I am looking at you Ubisoft) has copied it and all companies ae still stuck in the PC "serverlist" of 1990s. That being said .... server list are ok for non-ranked games, maybe H2/H3 should add that in future.

[bapenguin]

I love the Halo 2 matchmaking system...but I'd also like to see a match browser as well, or at least something that lets me choose options. But for ease of use and just getting in and playing a game, Halo2 matchmaking is where it's at.

Plus the Party system is the greatest thing EVER for multiplayer gaming. They need to build it in the 360 dashboard and make it universal across all games.

[Borgboy]

Is there a firefox extension that will let me filter out Halo newsposts?
Yes.

http://borgboy.unlimitedcontrol.com/ea/warning-halo.jpg

I don't know where I got it...But I think it's called the "scrollbar" plugin. :rolleyes:

[Borgboy]

I love the Halo 2 matchmaking system...
But what about the fact that this news has nothing to do with Halo 3? Can we get it changed or taken off of the main page, or something? :o

[Feltoar]

Just another matchmaking hater here.

Honestly, its hard to find decent people to even consider adding them to your friends list in Halo 2. It was okay when most of my friends played, but now that they dont the game is completely intolerable. I have no choice. I shouldnt have to take time out to join a forum and locate some decent folk, its the stupid fundamental flaw behind forcing matchmaking.

I REALLY hate being forced to play maps, gametypes and weapon selections I dont want to. Then playing them again, then again, then again when Bungies so called 'random' selection chooses the same map over and over.

Also, just as it says, it segments the player base. You shouldnt have to ditch a gametype because not enough people play it. Its a silly situation to even be in. Just give us a server list and let us choose. That way we only need to chance by one humane host who kicks assholes as opposed to chancing by 8 humane players who arnt assholes.

[Knite]

I don't know where I got it...But I think it's called the "scrollbar" plugin. :rolleyes:


Bravo Borgboy. Bravo.
=)

[DeadScreenSky]

You're confusing "friends" with what would actually be required for that to work, which is "list of people I can tolerate, that are on when I'm on, that are interested in generally the same types of custom games that I am, and are willing to populate their friends list only with the other people who fit these requirements in such a manner as to maximize the possiblity of getting 8 of us into a party at 3 am, and are also willing to put up with the pain in the ass enough to actually still have an active Live account."

Or, they could just list all custom games currently running and accepting more players that are connected to Xbox Live, just like how it appears in System Link now.

It's a real shame when it's less of a pain in the ass to just use Xbox Connect.
You're really making a strong counterargument to my (joking) point that the only people whining aren't good at that whole human interaction thing!

But it sounds like Xbox Connect is working fine for you, which is great. I suppose some people just aren't up to the rigors of Xbox Live.

[The Letter 3]

I suppose some people just aren't up to the rigors of Xbox Live.
Don't you mean dealing with the random idiots of Xbox Live? Halo 2 certainly brought out the worst of people: laggers, cheaters, foul-mouthed twelve year olds, asshats who won't play as a team, and, my favorite, the people who cower behind an online alias and forget every concept of human decency, respect, and consideration. I suppose the only thing rigorous about Xbox Live and Halo 2 is withstanding the incredible urge to throw your controller through the TV.

Edit: And I agree. This is not Halo 3 news.

[DeadScreenSky]

Umm, welcome to the internet. I certainly ran into that shit before Halo 2, and I certainly ran into after it. It's been pretty rare in my experience, but I'll admit if you play during the hours when all the kiddies are around it might get a little too common.

(The only people I really have problems with in the game are the people who disconnect from their teams when they feel they are going to lose. That they can then rejoin another game immediately is a serious game design flaw on Bungie's part, no question.)

And again, if little stuff like this makes you have an "incredible urge to throw your controller through the TV" then I still maintain (now growing more serious) that some people just don't have the social...ummm, graces to handle something like Xbox Live. The less communication-orientated PC FPS titles are definitely a better choice for these people.

[Johan]

Don't you mean dealing with the random idiots of Xbox Live? Halo 2 certainly brought out the worst of people: laggers, cheaters, foul-mouthed twelve year olds, asshats who won't play as a team, and, my favorite, the people who cower behind an online alias and forget every concept of human decency, respect, and consideration. I suppose the only thing rigorous about Xbox Live and Halo 2 is withstanding the incredible urge to throw your controller through the TV.

Edit: And I agree. This is not Halo 3 news.

Right on the money; matchmaking works okay for me in Halo 2, but I grew rapidly tired of the "laggers, cheaters...." and etc. mentioned above. Too many parents let their video game system be their babysitter, and leave their little pre-pubescent Johnny online with a mature title talking out his ass...many adults did the same crap, too.

I would like more options in Halo 3 for multiplayer matches...hopefully they'll incorporate some, but we didn't learn about that from this thread!

DeadScreenSky: Quitters are a real drag on the system, too. My solution would be that any time a player quits a ranked game, drop the player (regardless of the reason for quitting) one or two ranks. That way, all the quitters can match with each other at level 1. I don't know why such a simple idea was never implemented in Halo 2, because quitters really ruin the experience as much as cheaters or others.

[DeadScreenSky]

DeadScreenSky: Quitters are a real drag on the system, too. My solution would be that any time a player quits a ranked game, drop the player (regardless of the reason for quitting) one or two ranks. That way, all the quitters can match with each other at level 1. I don't know why such a simple idea was never implemented in Halo 2, because quitters really ruin the experience as much as cheaters or others.
I do think that might go too far, as sometimes people legitimately have to drop a game, or can even suffer some kind of network issue outside of their control. (You also do want the ranking system to actually work correctly, and that might interfere too much with that.) But a simple timer that prevents them from playing for even 10 minutes afterwards would do the trick. In my experience most of the jerks dropping do it because they want to start a new game immediately, and if they have to wait even longer if they drop they may as well stay and play. And people dropping for legitimate 'emergency' reasons won't be starting a new game that quickly anyway.

But yeah, quitters can seriously hurt team games. It makes it less fun for both teams, and I'm shocked Bungie hasn't implemented even a simple fix for it.

[Tik-Tok]

The worst part about this matchmaking shit is if you're trying to play with more than one person on the same xbox against others online. You're limited to one or two options in the playlist, all of which kind of suck.
My friends shouldn't ALL have to pay for xbox live accounts so they can play on MY xbox.
That's just plain stupid.

[Adam Blue]

The worst part about this matchmaking shit is if you're trying to play with more than one person on the same xbox against others online. You're limited to one or two options in the playlist, all of which kind of suck.
My friends shouldn't ALL have to pay for xbox live accounts so they can play on MY xbox.
That's just plain stupid.


Well, that would be like, 3 free other Live! accounts. That doesn't make sense. The real accounts need to be for matchmaking. Not just some dudes gathered around one box.

I think the matchmaking is fantastic. I now enjoy maps that I would otherwise NEVER play. I wish this was implemented with every other game. I have never played a FPS online as much as Halo 2, and I've played better FPS's.....but Halo 2 has the best online setup.

[Borgboy]

DeadScreenSky: Quitters are a real drag on the system, too. My solution would be that any time a player quits a ranked game, drop the player (regardless of the reason for quitting) one or two ranks. That way, all the quitters can match with each other at level 1. I don't know why such a simple idea was never implemented in Halo 2, because quitters really ruin the experience as much as cheaters or others.
That's actually not that good of a plan. Many people like to "de-rank" and lose as many games as they can so they can "own" the "newbies." That solution makes it too easy to de-rank. Are your opponents too evenly matched for your taste? Quit half a dozen games and you're back at a level 1. That's a problem. It also punishes the guy who has to run off and take his pregnant wife to the hospital (and any other assorted, legitimate reasons for quitting). DeadScreenSky's solution (which many have thought of, and it's brilliant) is much more elegant. Simply set a timer when people quit that lasts at least until the game they quit from ends (longer would be better, as a penalty)...And make it so they cannot start any other games until after the timer is up. Then they quit out because they're not having fun losing, and go start another game. It removes the reason for quitting. And those who leave for a legitimate reason aren't playing in the next ten minutes anyway, so it doesn't matter.

Edit: Clarified the de-ranking point.

[Borgboy]

Well, that would be like, 3 free other Live! accounts. That doesn't make sense. The real accounts need to be for matchmaking. Not just some dudes gathered around one box.
Indeed. The "training" lists are enough for your guests. If you want to play ranked games, bring your own account. I do all the time. I just import my account onto my friend's xbox and we can then both join the ranked lists.

But I agree, matchmaking is fantastic. It encourages you to try new things instead of doing the same ol' same ol'. And it's great that Bungie has a dedicated staff person to keeping the lists fresh, and coming up with new and interesting ways to play it.

[easi]

People should be able to quit out of a game anytime they want. If it stops being fun, there's no point continuing.

[Ajguy]

For those who dislike the matchmaking system, the reality is it ain't going anywhere. For one Bungie loves it and thinks it serves what they are trying to acomplish. Second, Halo 2 is one of the (if no the) most popular console online games. Probably the only things that beat it are Counter Strike and WoW. This sends out a clear message to Bungie that if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

As for me, I like the matchmaking system. When I play, it's usually just for a round or two and I'm not too picky about what I'm playing. Serves my needs perfectly. Gets me in quickly and there's rarely server issues.

[Ozymandias]

Can anyone comment on the matchmaking system on Halo 2 and whether or not what Frankie says would be a true improvement if implemented the way he says? I've not played it online, so I'm looking for some constructive comments.
I'd actually like to up-level this question from "just" Halo 2. Your discussion got me to wondering what the perfect matchmaking system might be for Live Anywhere in the future, taking into account all the platforms we'll be supporting over time. Posted a quick question to my blog community here (http://ozymandias.com/archive/2006/07/29/Where-Should-Matchmaking-go-in-the-Future-.aspx), and definitely would appreciate your thoughts.

Note that I'll also be reading through here on EA, so don't feel like you "have" to go to my site. Just be aware that the product teams will mostly be reading there, so you can talk to them in an unfiltered way there vs. my collating thoughts shared here and getting them to the teams. Your call!

[DeadScreenSky]

Things might have changed in the last few months, but last time I checked more people were playing Halo 2 than CS, actually (I'm pretty sure both CS versions combined, even).

[Johan]

That's actually not that good of a plan. Many people like to "de-rank" and lose as many games as they can so they can "own" the "newbies." That solution makes it too easy to de-rank. Are your opponents too evenly matched for your taste? Quit half a dozen games and you're back at a level 1. That's a problem. It also punishes the guy who has to run off and take his pregnant wife to the hospital (and any other assorted, legitimate reasons for quitting).

De-rankers/de-levelers already accomplish what they want (to get back to level 1) by screwing around in matches and messing with their team...dropping people for quitting does not in any way reward de-rankers/de-levelers; in fact, it would get them to level 1 faster, which would actually help out at the higher levels, where they are screwing up so many matches. And those at lower levels would get pwned a bit, but odds are they'll have just as many of these people ON their team as against their team...and it is so insanely easy to move up at the lower ranks (it only takes one win or so) and losses count much less

And as far as pregnancy and other such 'legit' examples of quitting, normal people aren't having a baby on a weekly basis, nor are they quitting out with REAL reasons such as that on a very frequent basis, so losing a level here and there for those individuals would hardly be common or incredibly debilitating...and wtf is a guy with a wife near labor doing playing a freaking video game, anyways? That's a surefire future divorce right there.

I think my solution, dropping quitters a level or two each time, would work much better than a time-delay, would not overly harm average individuals who quit very infrequently, and would get de-levelers out of regular matches much more quickly as well. I stand by it as the best solution.

[Deathbane27]

But it sounds like Xbox Connect is working fine for you, which is great.

How about some reading comprehension, mkay? I said Xbox Connect was easier to deal with than getting a custom game together on Halo 2 via Live. That doesn't imply it's working fine for me, and no, it's not great.

I suppose some people just aren't up to the rigors of Xbox Live.

Xbox Live isn't the problem. Halo 2's system for custom games is. As Perigon posted above, PD0 has the matchmaking system plus a list of open custom games.

[fitbabits]

People should be able to quit out of a game anytime they want. If it stops being fun, there's no point continuing.
Way to be totally selfish, easi.

[easi]

It's selfish to expect someone to waste their time for you.

[J Arcane]

If you start a game with other people, you stick with it until the rounds done. It's just basic courtesy.

Wussing out and ditching the game half way through is hardcore lamerage.

Same with the people who start jumping to the winning team in the last minute of a CTF match.

[Adam Blue]

People should be able to quit out of a game anytime they want. If it stops being fun, there's no point continuing.

Those type of people don't need to be playing the ranked games then. Do Training. Easy solution, wouldn't you think? But, no, people are dumb.

[fitbabits]

It's selfish to expect someone to waste their time for you.
No, it's selfish and unfair to drop out of a game that's not finished because you happen to be losing to either a better player or due to some mistake on your part.

[ldi222]

The matchmaking system is allright sometimes but not at the expense of a server browser. I love how Bungie says "if you dont like our matchmaking lists then just play customs" as if that's the viable alternate solution but I know they know better. I also know that its a dirty little secret of theirs that aside from being a "service to the community," matchmaking also gives Bungie direct influence near complete control into exactly how the gamers are playing their game. It isnt enough that we bought an xbox live account and a copy of HALO, we are also pretty much forced to play it the way Bungie wants us to if we want random competition.

Ive tried posting comments on their forums to have some input into gametypes but most of the people posting there are going to take the Bungie company line to kiss their ass and try and score brownie points. What really irks me is that they got rid of 6 vs 6 so now if you have 6 people in your party the only solution if you want to play as a team is Big Lag Battle. Im sure Bungie understands that given the general bandwidth of the average user 12 players with decent connections is about max if you want a relatively lag free game. BTB is just stupid laggy way too often.

But aside from Bungie and Ninja on Fire dictating how the game is played, the HALO community for the most part is the absolutely worst gaming community I have ever experienced. The cheating is so amazingly rampant and the attitudes for the most part so poor I really question why Ive spent the last few years playing it so religiously. Obviously I love HALO despite this rant but still here is a breakdown of what happens an average of Id say conservatively 30% of the time in matchaking.

De Levelers - Mentioned in the thread allready, people who purposely quit games to screw their teammates and drop in levels so they can be level 1 and "rape noobs." However, de levelers arent interested in just lowing their rank, they thoroughly enjoy screwing everyone on their way down too and will let you know it.

Standby - If you get host you just hit the standby button on your modem and it lags everyone else out while you can still run around. A very lame way to cheat, Bungie has made progress here but its still done along with other more advanced techniques such as...

Bridging - If you dont play HALO2 online you would be shocked to know how often this technique of running your internet connection through your PC and then to your Xbox along with some special software to manipulate matchmaking so that you always get host. People try to justify it by saying "I want host so that I dont get cheated on" but its far more than that and one of the most common ways people cheat these days.

Modding - Using a modded Xbox with map hacks to be able to do things like fly around, create super weapons or move ultra fast. This has been reduced too but its still there. There was actually a time when starting a game we would have to listen to see if our hard drive started spinning to load the new maps that were stored there instead of the CD. If we did hear the hard drive we would back out before the game starts so that we could try again with a map on the CD which wouldnt be modded. Sometimes the experience when you get into a modded game is such that you see the list of teammates all with a red X, as soon as you spawn you die, repeat the entire game.

Boosting - Technically not a cheat but the former "de leveled" or smurf two month account players grouping up with higher ranked players to speed up their leveling process. Creates unbalance in matchmaking playlists by serving up greater competition for the other team than they would otherwise run into.

I know Bungie likes to post their waaambulance posts to show they are doing something about cheating and I praise them for it however, giving us an ability to create our own custom game and let random teams join it would allow for drastic improvement in the experience for those teams that just want some fair and dare I say friendly competition. Im sure the excuse is that Xbox live isnt built that way with HALO2 and it would be impossible to implement but maybe the other reason is that more of the community may prefer it that way and then what would Ninja on Fires influence be? Bungie isnt much of a fan of the MLG either, I wonder why?

The reality is that a server list type situation for random competition will never happen because as much as they talk about taking forum input and the community being involved in the process, matchmaking first and foremost puts Bungie squarely in the drivers seat and everyone else is just a passenger. Damn I miss the days of the Blood Gulch, Hogs only on Xbconnect... KILLTACULAR!

[Zeal]

People still fail to grasp the inherent failure of Halo 2's online play: lack of dedicated servers. Not only would cheating be much more difficult to do and easily detectable, but good connection performance would be more or less consistent.

Who the hell wants to depend on random players - with a limited upstream - hosting their games? Waiting for another host to be assigned after a drop is most annoying shit ever, and the host always has the advantage, no matter what team they're on.

Dedicated servers are a must, and while at it, kill Halo 2's inefficient and time-consuming matching system.

Edit: Oh and by the way, Halo 2's 'leveling' system is the stupidest move I've ever seen in a FPS. Not only did this alienate higher levels to their own little subgroup of opponents (having to play the same people over and over), it turned the entire purpose of the game's online play into gaining experience at any cost.

Evidence of this is the complete lack of respect for lower level players, circle-boosting groups, excessive cheating to gain levels and all out fucktards.

The only thing that mattered in Halo 1's online community was skill and skill equaled respect.

1. Dedicated server option
2. Kill forced matchmaking
3. Kill online level system

[DeadScreenSky]

People still fail to grasp the inherent failure of Halo 2's online play: lack of dedicated servers. Not only would cheating be much more difficult to do and easily detectable, but good connection performance would be more or less consistent.
And you're still ignoring the fact that most of us like matchmaking by skill level, which is not really possible with dedicated servers.

[trip1eX]

Yeah I don't see why Bungie can't give folks a server browser. Keep matchmaking. It's great when you want that type of random competitive environment. Custom games are great for a group of buds.

But what's missing is the ability to play what you want with a bunch of buds and strangers aka the server browser. A dedicated server too is like a watering hole. A place where folks go with a few friends to be around others doing the same thing.

I never thought Bungie improved online play. They only did something different which has it's different advantages and disadvantages.

Anyway again I don't see why Bungie can't give folks the option. Everyone other game has it. Keep ranked play like it is. But some folks just want to park on a server that's going good and stay there.

[Ajguy]

It could be worse. We could have friend codes :p

[Goronmon]

It's selfish to expect someone to waste their time for you.If playing the game is a "waste of time", why are you even playing in the first place?

[easi]

If playing the game is a "waste of time", why are you even playing in the first place?

I said if it STOPS BEING FUN. I know reading comprehension is in short supply on the VN boards, but damn.

[Heretic Machine]

If playing the game is a "waste of time", why are you even playing in the first place?

That is one thing I hate about online gaming. It seems like most people who play online games are only interested in theirselves, and their e-peen. So if they aren't winning then they aren't interested. They aren't really interested in the game at all, just showing off. This problem isn't just with FPS games either, it happens all the time in MMOs as well.

[Borgboy]

I know Bungie likes to post their waaambulance posts to show they are doing something about cheating and I praise them for it however, giving us an ability to create our own custom game and let random teams join it would allow for drastic improvement in the experience for those teams that just want some fair and dare I say friendly competition. Im sure the excuse is that Xbox live isnt built that way with HALO2 and it would be impossible to implement but maybe the other reason is that more of the community may prefer it that way and then what would Ninja on Fires influence be? Bungie isnt much of a fan of the MLG either, I wonder why?
Interesting, thought-out post. Nice job. However, I don't agree with you. I'm not going to hit on every point, I just wanted to point this out, since it jumped out at me...You say Bungie isn't a fan of MLG, and they don't listen to their fans...Then why did they create a playlist (by request of fans) based entirely off of the MLG style of game?