Back in the Black - Sony Reports Higher than Expected Profits

[fitbabits]

gamesindustry.biz (http://www.gamesindustry.biz) is reporting that Sony are now back in the black, reporting higher than expected profits of $232.5 million. However (you knew it was coming), these results are tempered by the 30% loss experienced in the videogame division as costs for the PS3 continue to mount.

You can read the full story here (http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=18583).

Japanese electronics and entertainment giant Sony has announced a 32.3 billion Yen (219 million Euro) profit for the quarter ended June 30th, thanks to a resurgence in profitability at its consumer electronics division.

The firm, in the same period last year recorded a 7.3 billion Yen (50 million Euro) loss, also saw revenues in the quarter leap by 11 per cent year on year to 1.74 trillion Yen (11.8 billion Euro) as sales surged in both the electronics and the Sony Pictures movie divisions.

However, the videogames division of the firm recorded an operating loss for the quarter as revenues plummeted by some 30 per cent and the costs of developing the PlayStation 3 continued to mount. Sales of the PlayStation 2 hardware and software were down for the quarter - as, disappointingly, were sales of the PlayStation Portable.
As a whole, things are looking better for Sony. Could this be the good news that y'all have been crying out for?

[Lord Nerdious]

Good thing that hole they're digging isn't too deep.

I keed.

[Yadneb]

Well, seeing as the negative aspects of the post all involved the gaming part of the company, I don't think this info helps Sony much in regards to the console wars. Unless of course they pass some of those profits on to us in terms of a quick price break on the PS3.

[Savok]

Dear sir I shall not have you placing ACDC and Sony in the same headline.

[fitbabits]

Dear sir I shall not have you placing ACDC and Sony in the same headline.
I added the word 'the' to the headline to avoid that! :o

[agentgray]

Really? Cause I thought:
I see a red door and I want it painted black
No colors anymore I want them to turn black
I see the girls walk by dressed in their summer clothes
I have to turn my head until my darkness goes
I see a line of cars and theyre all painted black
With flowers and my love both never to come back
I see people turn their heads and quickly look away
Like a new born baby it just happens evry day
I look inside myself and see my heart is black
I see my red door and it has been painted black
Maybe then Ill fade away and not have to face the facts
Its not easy facin up when your whole world is black

[Kamalot]

Yea! Good news for Sony.
Too bad they had to kill their dog (http://www.engadget.com/2006/01/26/sony-killed-aibo-and-qrio/) to become profitable again.

[UnderHero5]

Never say "y'all" again!

[Rook34]

Sony came to my house today and he kicked my dog! Now he needs operation!

[fitbabits]

Never say "y'all" again!
Or what? :)

[Lord Nerdious]

Never say "y'all" again!

There's a difference, we're allow to say ya'll, yank.

[Paranoia]

I wonder how is MS profit compared to Sony?

[fitbabits]

I wonder how is MS profit compared to Sony?
Instead of wondering out loud, go look it up!

Microsoft:

Redmond, Wash. – July 20, 2006 – Microsoft Corp. today announced record fourth quarter revenue of $11.80 billion for the period ended June 30, 2006, a 16% increase over the same quarter of the prior year. Operating income for the quarter was $3.88 billion, a 30% increase compared with $2.99 billion in the prior year period. Operating income for the fourth quarter included certain legal charges of $351 million, compared with $756 million in the prior year period. Net income for the fourth quarter was $2.83 billion and diluted earnings per share were $0.28, which included $0.03 of certain legal charges. For the same quarter of the previous year, net income was $3.70 billion and diluted earnings per share were $0.34, which included $0.05 of certain legal charges and $0.09 of tax benefits.

For the fiscal year ended June 30, 2006, the company announced revenue of $44.28 billion, an 11% increase over the prior year. Operating income for the fiscal year was $16.47 billion, or 13% over the prior year period. Operating income for the fiscal year included $1.11 billion for certain legal charges, compared with $2.06 billion in the prior year period. Net income for the fiscal year was $12.60 billion and diluted earnings per share were $1.20, which included $0.08 of certain legal charges and $0.01 of tax benefits. For the previous fiscal year, net income and diluted earnings per share were $12.25 billion and $1.12, which included $0.13 of certain legal charges and $0.09 of tax benefits.

“We delivered a very strong finish to the fiscal year highlighted by customer demand for our recently launched products of Xbox 360™, SQL Server™ 2005, Visual Studio® 2005 and Microsoft Dynamics™ CRM 3.0, which fueled a combined 31% revenue growth of their business groups for the quarter,” said Chris Liddell, chief financial officer of Microsoft. “Our upcoming launches of Windows Vista™, the 2007 Microsoft® Office System, Exchange Server 2007, and other key products position us to continue to deliver strong revenue growth in fiscal year 2007. We are also very pleased that both the Microsoft Business Solutions and the Mobile and Embedded Devices businesses achieved profitability for the full fiscal year.”

The company also announced that its board of directors has authorized new share repurchase programs, comprised of a $20 billion tender offer scheduled to be completed on August 17, 2006, as well as authorization for up to an additional $20 billion ongoing share repurchase program with an expiration of June 30, 2011. Furthermore, the company also announced today that it completed its previously announced $30 billion stock repurchase program.

“With our share repurchase programs announcement today, we reaffirm our confidence and optimism in the long term future of the company and continue to execute on our strategy of returning capital to shareholders,” said Liddell.
Sony:

Sony returned to profit in the April-June quarter after losing money the same period a year ago, signaling a possible turnaround under its first foreign chief executive.

The Japanese electronics and entertainment company recorded a 32.3 billion yen ($276 million) profit during fiscal first quarter, it said Thursday. Sony Corp. had posted a 7.3 billion yen loss the same period last year.

Quarterly sales jumped 11 percent to 1.74 trillion yen ($14.9 billion) from 1.57 trillion yen the previous year.

Sony's core electronics section, long battered by competition from cheaper Asian rivals, also was back in the black in the latest quarter, boosted by healthy sales of liquid-crystal display TVs, digital cameras, camcorders and laptops. Sales in the electronics division surged 13.5 percent.

"The Da Vinci Code," which raked in more than $740 million at worldwide box offices, boosted sales in Sony Pictures Entertainment 41.8 percent. But the film section racked up an operating loss for the quarter because of higher marketing costs for upcoming works.

The Tokyo-based manufacturer of the Walkman portable music player and PlayStation video-game machine is in the midst of a turnaround effort under Chief Executive Howard Stringer, a dual U.S.-British citizen who took the helm at Sony a year ago.

The company is closing plants, shedding jobs and ditching unprofitable operations. But its main challenge has been to regain growth in its core electronics business, which comprised more than 70 percent of Sony's overall revenue in the quarter just ended.

Restructuring charges added 10.7 billion yen ($91.5 million) in expenses for the latest quarter, an improvement from the 15.9 billion yen expense chalked up the same period a year ago, Sony said in a statement.

Sony, whose sprawling empire reaches Hollywood movies, financial services, video games and a music joint venture, kept its forecast for the full fiscal year through March 2007 at a 130 billion yen ($1.1 billion) profit. But it raised its sales forecast to 8.23 trillion yen ($70.4 billion), up from 8.20 trillion yen ($70.1 billion) in April.

In its gaming division, sales dipped 29 percent because of a decrease in sales of the PlayStation 2 console, as consumers await the release of its upgrade PlayStation 3 slated for November.

Sales of PlayStation Portable handheld machines also fell, according to Sony. Development and other preparation costs for the PlayStation 3 enlarged operating losses at the game section.

In financial services, sales dipped 19.3 percent, mainly due to a decrease in revenue at Sony Life. Operating profit plunged 79 percent in financial services as the dwindling value on bonds offset gains from insurance premiums.

Sony's holdings in ventures and other endeavors had a mixed effect on earnings.

The joint venture with Samsung Electronics Co. of South Korea to make liquid crystal display panels for TVs added 3.4 billion yen ($29 million) in equity income. Sony Ericsson Mobile Communications AB, in which Sony invests with the Swedish wireless equipment maker, contributed 10.2 billion yen ($87 million).

But Sony BMG Music Entertainment, set up in 2004, produced an equity loss of 3.6 billion yen (US$30.8 million; euro24.5 million) as the overall market continued to decline and key releases were postponed. Among the best-selling albums were the country music trio Dixie Chicks' "Taking the Long Way," and American rock band Tool's "10,000 Days."

Sony also booked an equity loss of 2.6 billion yen ($22 million) for Metro-Goldwyn Mayer Inc., which was better than the loss for the previous year. A consortium led by Sony completed the acquisition of MGM in April 2005.

[Wyrm]

Which one made more? My eyes crossed when I looked at those.

[jBusy]

I wonder how is MS profit compared to Sony?
To condense the above post - $2.83 Billion in the last quarter. (http://www.physorg.com/news72716764.html) However, their gaming division consistently loses money and has lost about $4 billion at this point.

[Steele Johnson]

What's odd is that I hear people say that they used to buy nothing but Sony products when buying electronics, but now they don't because of bad service and low quality. I don't see how they can be turning a profit at this point, unless it's from a division other than electronics. Sony has gone way down the tubes over the past 5 years, IMO. I once thought they were the best for electronics.... but not anymore.

[Kamalot]

What's odd is that I hear people say that they used to buy nothing but Sony products when buying electronics, but now they don't because of bad service and low quality. I don't see how they can be turning a profit at this point, unless it's from a division other than electronics. Sony has gone way down the tubes over the past 5 years, IMO. I once thought they were the best for electronics.... but not anymore.
Well, Sony has done a lot of restructuring in the past year, including laying off a TON of employees. I believe the executives from Japan and California held an event in Hawaii to plan the restructuring. I bet a lot of the profit has come from cutbacks to employees, divisions, products and, more than likely, quality control.

[Chameleo]

Sony came to my house today and he kicked my dog! Now he needs operation!

hahahahaha

i actually cracked a smile at this post.

[ldi222]

I think the quality in Sony High Def TV's has returned.

[Guy Mariano]

To condense the above post - $2.83 Billion in the last quarter. (http://www.physorg.com/news72716764.html) However, their gaming division consistently loses money and has lost about $4 billion at this point.

??? How the hell are they going to make back 4 billion? The 360 surely isn't going to make them over 4 billion dollars in its lifecycle.

[ldi222]

??? How the hell are they going to make back 4 billion? The 360 surely isn't going to make them over 4 billion dollars in its lifecycle.

I guess Microsoft would disagree, especially when it comes to dominating the living room entertainment center over the course of the next decade.

[Kamalot]

??? How the hell are they going to make back 4 billion? The 360 surely isn't going to make them over 4 billion dollars in its lifecycle.
Sony is expected to lose 2 billion dollars this fiscal year with the launch of the PS3.

http://www.ps3land.com/article-509.php

According to Business Week, A Goldman Sachs analyst claims that Sony may lose up to $2 billion during the first year of the PlayStation 3's launch. The report claims that each PlayStation 3 will cost Sony $750 to produce while they will be retailing at $499 for the SKU with the 20GB hard drive and $599 for the unit with the 60GB hard drive.

[rein]

1. Sony is no more evil than any other company that became bloated and had to restructure.

2. Sony is losing money in its gaming division due to the cost of development on the PS3.

Sony being out of the red is good news no matter what kind of spin you want to put on it.

[Guy Mariano]

Sony is expected to lose 2 billion dollars this fiscal year with the launch of the PS3.

http://www.ps3land.com/article-509.php

The difference is Sony made alot of money on PS1 and PS2 they never came out losing 4 billion like XBOX1. If PS1 lost that much money...believe me there wouldn't have been a PS2.

[Kamalot]

The difference is Sony made alot of money on PS1 and PS2 they never came out losing 4 billion like XBOX1. If PS1 lost that much money...believe me there wouldn't have been a PS2.
The difference is Microsoft made a lot of money on Windows and Windows software.

[Mike Jones]

To condense the above post - $2.83 Billion in the last quarter. (http://www.physorg.com/news72716764.html) However, their gaming division consistently loses money and has lost about $4 billion at this point.


So they will break even at the end of the X720's life cycle. Not bad :)

[fitbabits]

So they will break even at the end of the X720's life cycle. Not bad :)
You know, adding a smiley at the end of every post to indicate that you're teasing only works when you do it from time to time - not at the end of every damn post!

Oh, and you really SHOULD have put a smiley at the end of this (http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13202&page=1&pp=20&highlight=marketing)! :D

[Wyrm]

You know, adding a smiley at the end of every post to indicate that you're teasing only works when you do it from time to time - not at the end of every damn post!

Oh, and you really SHOULD have put a smiley at the end of this (http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13202&page=1&pp=20&highlight=marketing)! :D

Well, that and he should have not copied it from another forum. But hey, who cares? It's only plagiarism.

[fitbabits]

Well, that and he should have not copied it from another forum. But hey, who cares? It's only plagiarism.
Yeah, that was my point! :)

[Skytram]

This is good news and bad news, in a way. Good news because Sony doesn't seem to be on the outs and more competition in the industry is a Good Thing. Bad news because Sony is a giant pain in the ass to work with, and if they don't get spanked hard financially then that probably won't change.

The problem with Sony's video game division is that they do not in any way support or help 3rd party publishers. They have had market dominance with the PS2 and have developed a highly arrogant and uptight approach to 3rd parties because of it. Certification is ridiculously difficult, they dispute the tiniest of highly subjectable interpretations of submission and qualification guidelines, and as a company they are very divided. For instance, you may pass a submission at SCEA, but when you do the same submission to SCEE they flag things that SCEA didn't care about or allowed through and you have to waist inordinate amounts of time and money (both of which are incredibly scarce at submission time for a project). I won't even go into the company rivalry and bickering between divisions like the Movie and Video Game divisions as a whole, but suffice to say that they don't get along.

So, anyway, what I'm trying to say is that I really, really, hope that Sony changes their tune with development on the PS3. From what I've experienced so far, however, they are still being asses. Lack of devkits as well as being retarded about PSP development has so far tainted my relations with them. I really hope that the PS3 gets off to a very, very, slow start and that will inspire Sony to work WITH their publishing partners, rather than AGAINST them. We're making them tons of fucking money, for Christ's sake.

Edit: grammar.

[Wyrm]

Yeah, that was my point! :)

You sir, are too smart for me. :)

[fitbabits]

This is good news and bad news, in a way. Good news because Sony doesn't seem to be on the outs and more competition in the industry is a Good Thing. Bad news because Sony is a giant pain in the ass to work with, and if they don't get spanked hard financially then that probably won't change.

The problem with Sony's video game division is that they do not in any way support or help 3rd party publishers. They have had market dominance with the PS2 and have developed a highly arrogant and uptight approach to 3rd parties because of it. Certification is ridiculously difficult, they dispute the tiniest of highly subjectable interpretations of submission and qualification guidelines, and as a company they are very divided. For instance, you may pass a submission at SCEA, but when you do the same submission to SCEE they flag things that SCEA didn't care about or allowed through and you have to waist inordinate amounts of time and money (both of which are incredibly scarce at submission time for a project). I won't even go into the company rivalry and bickering between divisions like the Movie and Video Game divisions as a whole, but suffice to say that they don't get along.

So, anyway, what I'm trying to say is that I really, really, hope that Sony changes their tune with development on the PS3. From what I've experienced so far, however, they are still being asses. Lack of devkits as well as being retarded about PSP development has so far tainted my relations with them. I really hope that the PS3 gets off to a very, very, slow start and that will inspire Sony to work WITH their publishing partners, rather than AGAINST them. We're making them tons of fucking money, for Christ's sake.

Edit: grammar.
This man speaks the truth, sadly! I've heard the same (or similar) story again and again...

[Mike Jones]

You know, adding a smiley at the end of every post to indicate that you're teasing only works when you do it from time to time - not at the end of every damn post!




Thanks for the tip :)

[Xenkylm]

Honestly, Sony does so much that it's hard to imagine the gaming division being their Achilles heel (it might be, but it's not such a given). Between film and music development/licensing, and other electronics (Sony TVs still do reasonably well, right? and the VAIO brand was a pretty big hit considering the Dell/Gateway/HP/Compaq dominance when they came out), losing momentum in the gaming world would be terrible in a "will investors hate us" way, and not in a "will sony exist anymore?" way.

Put another way, the AOL Time-Warner merger was a complete fiasco, but even with a third of that formula essentially kicking the bucket (apologies to AOL users out there, both of you), Time-Warner is still a big deal. Anyone who doesn't think so should've owned stock in them when the LOTR movies were coming out (KA-CHING!!!!).

Increasingly-long story short, Sony was wise to diversify their portfolio a long time ago. That formula gives them the flexibility to essentially say "we're making a $600 computer for your TV" and take that kind of risk. I'm a nintendo fanboi, but personally I hope Sony does well enough this generation. I would hate to see _fewer_ games out there.

[fitbabits]

Thanks for the tip :)
You're welcome! :) Funny how you left out the most pertinent part of my post, though. :)

[Zanzibar]

Thanks for the tip :)

He STILL won't address it. No explanation, no attempt at defending himself.

Hell, an APOLOGY would go a long way.

EDIT: Oh, forgot my obligatory Mike Jones smiley :rolleyes:

[crashedout]

I think the quality in Sony High Def TV's has returned.
Yupp the SXRD's and their LCD's sold very well last year. I don't know if that accounts for all the profit though.

[fitbabits]

He STILL won't address it. No explanation, no attempt at defending himself.

Hell, an APOLOGY would go a long way.

EDIT: Oh, forgot my obligatory Mike Jones smiley :rolleyes:
Give :D the :) guy :o a ;) break :eek: . I mean :cool: , it must be hard :eek: being Mike Jones right now!

Or is it? :confused:

[RMan]

The problem with Sony's video game division is that they do not in any way support or help 3rd party publishers. They have had market dominance with the PS2 and have developed a highly arrogant and uptight approach to 3rd parties because of it.
While I'm sure that is true, do you honestly expect it'd have been any different with anyone else? In the retail world a game doesn't thrive without heavy backing, so Sony caters only to the publishers that can make their product a success. It sucks, but that’s the way it is, and even before MS had their foot in the door I think they were thinking the same way, and Nintendo surely had their share of arrogance when they were on top. In the end, they all work the same way, and personally if one has to dominate the other, I’d rather it be the PS3 since it’s running on Linux (my nationalism is easily trumped by my desire to escape Windows).

[jacktion]

hahahahaha

i actually cracked a smile at this post.


Do you think that we could develop the CAS (cracked a smile) to the point where it replaces LOL?

That would be awesome! CAS

But how the hell does Sony lose so much money on video games? Are they stupid or what? They are number one! If they can't be profitable now then when will they?
I'm honestly asking cause I don't understand, besides being inflammatory.

[phantomhitman]

Im not believing microsoft lost $4 billion on the xbox. How many xbox/xbox 360s have been sold so far?

[Xenkylm]

Nintendo surely had their share of arrogance when they were on top.

Absolutely, and they probably still do. Imagine if you're a third-party developer and using a nintendo IP in ANY way? God, that must be torture. The micromanagement part of Nintendo's game-making philosophy leads to a lot of very excellent first and second-party games, but probably contributed to the lack of third-party support on the ::cough:: "Lamecube."

I'm sure things are still the same at Nintendo, despite taking the financial hit last generation. What they do have going for them, though, is the fact that developers are essentially still making gamecube games on the Wii. Nintendo is probably still poking them with the annoying stick, but it might not scare them away as much since at least this time they don't have to learn how to develop games for a completely new system.

[Mike Jones]

Im not believing microsoft lost $4 billion on the xbox. How many xbox/xbox 360s have been sold so far?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox


Microsoft has invested billions of dollars into the Xbox internal documents and received back billions of dollars in sales. Overall though Xbox division has lost $4 billion from 2001 to 2005. [13] In particular, the Xbox hardware itself is a loss leader, since the console was sold at a loss even at its debut price. The losses deepened when sales of the Xbox increased and when the price was reduced successive times to compete with PlayStation 2 [14]. Microsoft predicted that it would not make a profit on the Xbox for at least three years. The Xbox project never gave an annual profit to Microsoft according to these documents. In return for the money lost, though, the Xbox gained name recognition and a dedicated fan base. [17]

[Jack B]

He STILL won't address it. No explanation, no attempt at defending himself.

Hell, an APOLOGY would go a long way.

EDIT: Oh, forgot my obligatory Mike Jones smiley :rolleyes:

I've always thought there was something just not quite right with Mike.... Maybe Mike Jones is actually an experimental software program... Kind of like Hal from 2001: A Space Odyssey.

It's possible that Sony programmed the Mike Jones software to surf boards until "it" finds an extremely pro-Sony post. The program then cuts and pastes that post for use later as a "Mike Jones" post in anti-Microsoft way. It's a skunk works project, they call it Mike Jones 1.0.

The Mike Jones version 1.0 works best when using the cut/paste technique, as you can tell the difference immediately when it trys to generate it's own posts on the fly. The Mike Jones 1.0 responses are typically short and one or two sentences only. Kind of a Jr. High school level of intelligence, but all in all not bad for a software program. It's a bit understandable, since Mike Jones 1.0 is still being powered by a PS3 dev kit.

Sony is planning on a new and improved version of the Mike Jones program (ie Mike Jones 2.0 Episode One), but they are a bit busy right now with the PS3 launch and all, so the current Mike Jones code will have to do for now...

Likely, Sony never programmed the word plagiarism into his memory banks, so it (ie Mike Jones) can't respond. We'll need to wait for Mike Jones 2.0 for a response. However, they are also hoping to patch the Mike Jones 1.0 program so it will understand how to use [quote] in posts. They are still debating whether to allow Mike Jones 1.0 to actually give credit to the posters it cut/pastes from... That's a big debate among Sony executives right now. Giving credit to others, just doesn't sit right with them, so that feature has been shelved for the time being.

Sony did put a couple of Easter Eggs in Mike Jones 1.0. Try to see if you can find them! Make some anti-Sony or pro-Microsoft posts and join in on the fun! We have our very own Bot on Evil Avatar! Yeah!

Note: Notice the lack of a smiley on purpose, because I wasn't joking... :D

[RMan]

I'm sure things are still the same at Nintendo, despite taking the financial hit last generation.
Yea, many might argue that they still make money off consoles, but IMO, they all but gave away the market with the N64 and lost immeasurable amounts of money. I don’t even think of the Gamecube as that much of a failure, the N64 is what did the real damage. As odd as it seems, I don’t even think Sony has caught up with Nintendo’s arrogance during that time, and Nintendo could likely have gotten away with it if their product wasn’t lame on so many levels (most of which due to the cartridge). Anyway, the PS3 seems a far more competent product than the N64 was, so we’ll see how that goes for them.

[Hellstorm]

Poor PSP. Don't mess with Nintendo in the handheld market.

[Zanzibar]

Im not believing microsoft lost $4 billion on the xbox. How many xbox/xbox 360s have been sold so far?

I believe it, particularly considering that every Xbox and X360 ever sold was sold at a loss. Add to that the R&D costs for both systems and it's really not a surprise.

Of course, consider that Microsoft can take a flyer on damned near anything it wants to as long as it keeps delivering 30% profits. (http://www.forbes.com/business/global/2005/1003/036A_4.html)

[Mike Jones]

I've always thought there was something just not quite right with Mike.... Maybe Mike Jones is actually an experimental software program... Kind of like Hal from A Space Odyssey 2001.

It's possible that Sony programmed the Mike Jones software to surf boards until "it" finds an extremely pro-Sony post. The program then cuts and pastes that post for use later as a "Mike Jones" post in anti-Microsoft way. It's a skunk works project, they call it Mike Jones 1.0.

The Mike Jones version 1.0 works best when using the cut/paste technique, as you can tell the difference immediately when it trys to generate it's own posts on the fly. The Mike Jones 1.0 responses are typically short and one or two sentences only. Kind of a Jr. High school level of intelligence, but all in all not bad for a software program. It's a bit understandable, since Mike Jones 1.0 is still being powered by a PS3 dev kit.

Sony is planning on a new and improved version of the Mike Jones program (ie Mike Jones 2.0 Episode One), but they are a bit busy right now with the PS3 launch and all, so the current Mike Jones code will have to do for now...

Likely, Sony never programmed the word plagiarism into his memory banks, so it (ie Mike Jones) can't respond. We'll need to wait for Mike Jones 2.0 for a response. They are also hoping to patch the Mike Jones 1.0 program so it will understand how to use in posts. They are still debating whether to allow Mike Jones 1.0 to actually give credit to the posters it cut/pastes from... That's a big debate among Sony executives right now. Giving credit to others, just doesn't sit right with them, so that feature has been shelved for the time being.

Sony did put a couple of Easter Eggs in Mike Jones 1.0. Try to see if you can find them! Make some anti-Sony or pro-Microsoft posts and join in on the fun! We have our very own Bot on Evil Avatar! Yeah!

Note: Notice the lack of a smiley on purpose, because I wasn't joking... :D

obsession




ob·ses·sion [ Ob sésh'n, ob sésh'n ] (plural ob·ses·sions)


noun

Definition:

1. preoccupation: an idea or feeling that completely occupies the mind

*Jack B is obsessed with Mike Jones.


2. state of being obsessed: the state of being obsessed by somebody or something

*Jack B seems obsessed with Mike Jones.


3. psychiatry uncontrollable persistence of idea: the uncontrollable persistence of an idea or emotion in the mind, sometimes associated with psychiatric disorder

:D

[JovialPeon]

This is good news and bad news, in a way. Good news because Sony doesn't seem to be on the outs and more competition in the industry is a Good Thing. Bad news because Sony is a giant pain in the ass to work with, and if they don't get spanked hard financially then that probably won't change.

The problem with Sony's video game division is that they do not in any way support or help 3rd party publishers. They have had market dominance with the PS2 and have developed a highly arrogant and uptight approach to 3rd parties because of it. Certification is ridiculously difficult, they dispute the tiniest of highly subjectable interpretations of submission and qualification guidelines, and as a company they are very divided. For instance, you may pass a submission at SCEA, but when you do the same submission to SCEE they flag things that SCEA didn't care about or allowed through and you have to waist inordinate amounts of time and money (both of which are incredibly scarce at submission time for a project). I won't even go into the company rivalry and bickering between divisions like the Movie and Video Game divisions as a whole, but suffice to say that they don't get along.

So, anyway, what I'm trying to say is that I really, really, hope that Sony changes their tune with development on the PS3. From what I've experienced so far, however, they are still being asses. Lack of devkits as well as being retarded about PSP development has so far tainted my relations with them. I really hope that the PS3 gets off to a very, very, slow start and that will inspire Sony to work WITH their publishing partners, rather than AGAINST them. We're making them tons of fucking money, for Christ's sake.

Edit: grammar.

couldn't disagree more. if you compare MS to Sony to Nintendo as far as publishers go, Sony is the best for 3rd party. MS has a team of lawyers that look for the smallest thing wrong in your contract and may decide to refuse to pay. f***ing your project even harder than merely dealing with QA. for example, see pipeworks, beep industries, etc.

nintendo focusses on high quality first party gigs. they have consistently made things difficult for 3rd party in the form of cartridges and the like.

working with sony, they are more prone to give and take. you miss part of a milestone but got something done on another one in the future and they're generally okay with that.

i'm not saying that all publishers (including non-console manufacturers) are glorious or that Sony is better than everyone. as a matter of fact, they all suck in some way. devs get reamed in many more situations than a pub ever will. but if i had to choose MS or Sony i would choose working with Sony. at least of a publisher level. console-wise, the 360 is far easier to develop for.

as for having to jump through the hoops of SCEA, SCEE, SCEI and SCEK... they are more particular in the bar for quality in that order. SCEA seems to put out games with the most bugs, followed by EE, EI and EK. the complaint of having to spend so much extra time is crap. they're finding bugs in YOUR (well, not 'your', but your company) code/art/design (whatever)! ultimately the comsumer benefits for having a product that doesn't crash if they hit the buttons in some magical pattern.

and since so many people are putting the crazy a** smilies in the posts today : :D and for good measure : :p and : :eek:

[rein]

But how the hell does Sony lose so much money on video games? Are they stupid or what? They are number one! If they can't be profitable now then when will they?
I'm honestly asking cause I don't understand, besides being inflammatory.

They didn't lose money, they invested money in new technology. We will not know if they lost money for several years.

[fitbabits]

obsession




ob·ses·sion [ Ob sésh'n, ob sésh'n ] (plural ob·ses·sions)


noun

Definition:

1. preoccupation: an idea or feeling that completely occupies the mind

*Jack B is obsessed with Mike Jones.


2. state of being obsessed: the state of being obsessed by somebody or something

*Jack B seems obsessed with Mike Jones.


3. psychiatry uncontrollable persistence of idea: the uncontrollable persistence of an idea or emotion in the mind, sometimes associated with psychiatric disorder

:D
Oh, Mike... When will you learn that people in glass houses should not throw stones?

plagiarism - noun (look it up if you need to (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/noun))

1: a piece of writing that has been copied from someone else and is presented as being your own work
2: the act of plagiarizing; taking someone's words or ideas as if they were your own

* see here (http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13202&page=1&pp=20&highlight=marketing) for an example!

Oh, and I mustn't forget my :D

Source - Dictionary.com (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/plagiarism).

[Syrinx]

Don't forget

de·ni·al - noun

1. A refusal to grant the truth of a statement or allegation; a contradiction.

2. Psychology. An unconscious defense mechanism characterized by refusal to acknowledge painful realities, thoughts, or feelings.

Also from Dictionary.com (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/denial)

[Jack B]

Oh, Mike... When will you learn that people in glass houses should not throw stones?

plagiarism - noun (look it up if you need to (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/noun))

1: a piece of writing that has been copied from someone else and is presented as being your own work
2: the act of plagiarizing; taking someone's words or ideas as if they were your own

* see here (http://www.evilavatar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13202&page=1&pp=20&highlight=marketing) for an example!

Oh, and I mustn't forget my :D

Source - Dictionary.com (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/plagiarism).

Thanks Fitbabits! I've placed Mike Jones 1.0 on my ignore list. Something I should have done long ago... Let me know when Sony sends out the next patch/update to Mike Jones 2.0. This version is just too buggy. I give it a 2 out of 10. Not even worth a rental. :D

[fitbabits]

Thanks Fitbabits! I've placed Mike Jones 1.0 on my ignore list. Something I should have done long ago... Let me know when Sony sends out the next patch/update to Mike Jones 2.0. This version is just too buggy. I give it a 2 out of 10. Not even worth a rental. :D
Sure.

It's like taking candy from a baby! :)

[Xenkylm]

Don't forget

de·ni·al - noun

1. A refusal to grant the truth of a statement or allegation; a contradiction.

2. Psychology. An unconscious defense mechanism characterized by refusal to acknowledge painful realities, thoughts, or feelings.

Also from Dictionary.com (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/denial)

And also:

thread jack·ing - verb

1. A statement (or series of statements) that radically changes the course of a discussion, typically from the original topic to a non-sequitor.

ex: "Jack B, Mike Jones, Filabits, and Syrinx were discussing Sony's financial situation, when a plagiarized comment led to a rampant display of thread-jacking. Now they are quoting the dictionary."

/still ruvs everyone.

[fitbabits]

And also:

thread jack·ing - verb

1. A statement (or series of statements) that radically changes the course of a discussion, typically from the original topic to a non-sequitor.

ex: "Jack B, Mike Jones, Filabits, and Syrinx were discussing Sony's financial situation, when a plagiarized comment led to a rampant display of thread-jacking. Now they are quoting the dictionary."

/still ruvs everyone.
Filabits? What the motherfuck? :confused:

[Kamalot]

Filabits? What the motherfuck? :confused:
LMAO! Must be your less evil, less stinky twin! ;-)

[Magnanimous Gnome]

He may have fucked up your name Fitbits, but the man (or woman) does have a point.

[Tohoya]

??? How the hell are they going to make back 4 billion? The 360 surely isn't going to make them over 4 billion dollars in its lifecycle.

MS was never in it to make money. Reading opening the Xbox. They were concerned that a Sony hegemony of the living room would threaten a windows monopoly, as future iterations of the playstation would become more like computers. That's why MS has cozied up so much to Nintendo: it was never about winning for themselves, but about hurting Sony. Nintendo seems much less interested in having their consoles do various things, so if the PS3 bombs so hard that Sony gets out of the console buisness, I'd expect MS to withdraw as well.

[Skytram]

couldn't disagree more. if you compare MS to Sony to Nintendo as far as publishers go, Sony is the best for 3rd party. MS has a team of lawyers that look for the smallest thing wrong in your contract and may decide to refuse to pay. f***ing your project even harder than merely dealing with QA. for example, see pipeworks, beep industries, etc.

I don't have any experience with getting money out of any of the console manufacturers, as that isn't something that is part of my job so I'll take what you say at face value. Needless to say, you really need to have a good industry lawyer draft your agreements or you are asking to get f*cked over. It's a sad but true fact when you are developing video games, making movies, or really doing anything creative that has a market value.

nintendo focusses on high quality first party gigs. they have consistently made things difficult for 3rd party in the form of cartridges and the like.

Yea, their cartridges and weird development hardware is expensive but at least they get it to you in a timely manner at launch and have a great support site. Sony has not gotten us a fraction of what we need to develop on their platforms at launch. The most important thing, really, when working with Nintendo is to have someone who has a lot of Nintendo experience and things tend to go smoothly, in my experience.

working with sony, they are more prone to give and take. you miss part of a milestone but got something done on another one in the future and they're generally okay with that.

Too each his own. In my experience it's been less give and take and more "you need to do this or you don't get concept approval for this platform".

i'm not saying that all publishers (including non-console manufacturers) are glorious or that Sony is better than everyone. as a matter of fact, they all suck in some way.

Agree completely.

devs get reamed in many more situations than a pub ever will.

Sad but true. The devs do get shit on and I can't see that changing in the near future.

but if i had to choose MS or Sony i would choose working with Sony. at least of a publisher level.

At least AT a publisher level, I'm assuming you mean? I don't know about that, with MS I can email my account manager directly and get the answers or requests I need and he's really friendly. With Sony it seems like an ancient elder council needs to approve every decision and oftentimes goes against what had been decided or agreed upon previously.

console-wise, the 360 is far easier to develop for.

Obviously. MS is a software company, they know how to make software development easier on their licensors.

as for having to jump through the hoops of SCEA, SCEE, SCEI and SCEK... they are more particular in the bar for quality in that order. SCEA seems to put out games with the most bugs, followed by EE, EI and EK. the complaint of having to spend so much extra time is crap. they're finding bugs in YOUR (well, not 'your', but your company) code/art/design (whatever)! ultimately the comsumer benefits for having a product that doesn't crash if they hit the buttons in some magical pattern.


I completely agree with this. I don't, however, agree with SCEE or SCEK setting back a code release date and forcing a publisher to lose tons of money on rented retail space because they don't like the phrasing of a fucking memory card message which had been approved EXACTLY AS WRITTEN in previous titles (and we have the reports to prove it). On top of that, in previous submissions they didn't catch it and then in a later one they just say "Oh. Sorry we didn't catch this in the previous submission, please get back into our 2 week queue when you resubmit. Thanks for the $10K."

and since so many people are putting the crazy a** smilies in the posts today : :D and for good measure : :p and : :eek:

edit: minor spelling and phrasing :rolleyes:

[Skytram]

While I'm sure that is true, do you honestly expect it'd have been any different with anyone else? In the retail world a game doesn't thrive without heavy backing, so Sony caters only to the publishers that can make their product a success.

I agree with the first statement here. Ideally I'd like to see Nintendo, MS, and Sony each have a 33% share, all with plenty of great 1st and 2nd party titles that are unique to each system.

The second statement is crap. Sony doesn't back anyone unless they are developing exclusively for them (2nd party indy developer) or are owned by them (1st party). Otherwise, the only thing that differentiates their level of "catering" is how they do business, which is piss-poor in my opinion.

It sucks, but that’s the way it is, and even before MS had their foot in the door I think they were thinking the same way, and Nintendo surely had their share of arrogance when they were on top. In the end, they all work the same way, and personally if one has to dominate the other, I’d rather it be the PS3 since it’s running on Linux (my nationalism is easily trumped by my desire to escape Windows).

I agree that Nintendo was probably plenty arrogant, but I haven't been in the industry for very long so I can't say first hand. In the end, the all DO NOT work in the same way. MS is a software company getting into the hardware business with Xbox and Xbox 360, so they have a much more accepting and accommodating attitude toward software developers. Whether or not that changes when they get market majority we have yet to see.

As far as OS's go... first of all the 360 does not run Windows. It uses some of the same API's as Windows (and those will merge more with XNA), but Windows does not and never will run on a Motorolla CPU, sorry. Linux on the PS3 doesn't mean shit -- it's not like developers are going to be able to hack the kernel and optimize code per title dynamically or anything. It's still a static OS. Linux is nice and all, but it still doesn't hold a candle to the UI of proprietary (i.e. Cathedral-development based) OS's like Windows and OSX (OSX != Linux).

[TrackZero]

While I'm sure that is true, do you honestly expect it'd have been any different with anyone else? In the retail world a game doesn't thrive without heavy backing, so Sony caters only to the publishers that can make their product a success. It sucks, but that’s the way it is, and even before MS had their foot in the door I think they were thinking the same way, and Nintendo surely had their share of arrogance when they were on top. In the end, they all work the same way, and personally if one has to dominate the other, I’d rather it be the PS3 since it’s running on Linux (my nationalism is easily trumped by my desire to escape Windows).

Yes, Nintendo was the same when they were on top. Which is why a swift kick to the chops and changing on the crown is a good thing for the industry. Unless you think humbling the egomanic in charge will be bad for your gaming somehow?

[Xenkylm]

Filabits? What the motherfuck? :confused:

lol, you ever read something wrong the first time and have trouble reading it a different way forever (like when you look at the word "premises" for too long and get it confused with "penises?"). Sorry for the mixup fillybitbabblebits. If you don't mind though, i'm still going to read it as "filabits," just cuz that's how it sounds in my head.

[Mr.Condescension]

Yes, Nintendo was the same when they were on top. Which is why a swift kick to the chops and changing on the crown is a good thing for the industry. Unless you think humbling the egomanic in charge will be bad for your gaming somehow?

It seems to me that with next gen development costs being so high we need to have a clear winner, unless everyone wants to only play watered down multiplatform titles and ports. Because of the market domination of the PS2 more studios could afford to make games exclusive to it alone. I think that for the industry to move forward we need more exclusives rather than less.

[RMan]

The second statement is crap. Sony doesn't back anyone unless they are developing exclusively for them (2nd party indy developer) or are owned by them (1st party). Otherwise, the only thing that differentiates their level of "catering" is how they do business, which is piss-poor in my opinion.
I said cater to, not financially back. What I’m saying is that Sony caters to big game publishers, and MS and Nintendo would do precisely the same if they had Sony’s market dominance.
MS is a software company getting into the hardware business with Xbox and Xbox 360, so they have a much more accepting and accommodating attitude toward software developers.
I can’t comment on how they compare to Sony, but I think MS’s accommodating attitude with the Xbox is just wrong. Their process is clearly designed for large publishers, plain and simple. Of course, my experience with them was early in the Xbox’s life, I’m sure they got more accommodating when it was clear the big publishers were handled well and they were getting kicked in the teeth by the PS2, but that’s my point.
As far as OS's go... first of all the 360 does not run Windows.
It runs a MS owned OS, if you want to say it’s not Windows because it doesn’t have the exact same code, go ahead. I’m calling it Windows (Windows CE is also not technically the ‘same’ as Windows, but I’m still calling it Windows).
Linux on the PS3 doesn't mean shit -- it's not like developers are going to be able to hack the kernel and optimize code per title dynamically or anything.
Not suggesting they would or even that it’d be that great if they did.
It's still a static OS. Linux is nice and all, but it still doesn't hold a candle to the UI of proprietary (i.e. Cathedral-development based) OS's like Windows and OSX (OSX != Linux).
Certainly not now, but that’s because of a lack of focus, because there wasn’t a valid platform and reason to develop much for it. With a consistent platform like the PS3, that would very quickly not be the case. The fact that the PS3 runs Linux is likely the biggest reason MS is scared of it. IMO, getting new revenue from the games business is nice for them, but it’s as much about retaining an empire than it is growing it. If the PS3 succeeds, eventually it becomes the black box PC that so many consumers would like to have, if it had the basic elements that most people want (these days, a web browser) it could own the living room, and after that in the proper place to own the desktop too. If MS loses their OS market dominance, they clearly lose the power which allows them to stay on top. In the end, something will become that system, MS knows it and Sony knows it. IMO, the consumer is best served if the OS is not one that’s wholly owned by any single company.
Yes, Nintendo was the same when they were on top… Unless you think humbling the egomanic in charge will be bad for your gaming somehow?
Nope, I agree, Nintendo’s kick to the teeth was the best thing for gamers, I don’t think we’d have the Wii this quick if not for that.