Assassin's Creed Preview (Xbox 360)

[fitbabits]

Yep, you read it right - Computer & Video Games (http://www.computerandvideogames.com) has posted a preview of the Xbox 360 version of the one-time PS3 exclusive, Assassin's Creed.

You can read what they thought about it here (http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=143343).

Format Xbox 360
Developer Ubisoft
Publisher Ubisoft
Genre Action, Adventure

It is the time of the third crusade. A public hanging has just taken place in the middle-eastern town of Acre and three soldiers stand on the podium displaying the bodies of the victims to an angered crowd, who are baying for their blood. Way up on the battlements a solitary figure in white is watching the developing scene.

The HUD is curiously futuristic, perhaps to tie in with the later parts of the trilogy, though there's no confirmation that they will be set in the same universe. If the rest of the series looks as impressive, we can guarantee that this is one creed we'll happily follow.
I really wasn't looking forward to this at all when it was PS3 only, but now it's coming to the Xbox 360, I can't wait! :rolleyes:

[Manzy]

Haha, I can't wait to tell this to my Sony fanboi friend who for some reason thinks I am an avid Xbox360 fanboy (I don't own one, but I do bash Sony a lot) and throw this back in his face. He has kept telling me over the last few montsh with a smug look on his face "well, we get Assassin's Creed. So nay nay!"

[The Iron Weasel]

Thank the good lord, I don't have to buy a PS3 till MGS4.

[TheHulk]

This was the only PS3 game from E3 that looked even remotely interesting to me.

[digitalErich]

Thank the good lord, I don't have to buy a PS3 till MGS4.
Ditto, well for me it's the next [non-racing] Jak game, but same idea.

[Varsity]

Why on earth are the in-game bystanders white?

[The Continental]

I can now officially put off a PS3 purchase until a price drop. Thank you gaming Jesus.

[digitalErich]

Why on earth are the in-game bystanders white?
Ethnocentrism. Happens all the time, all over the world, and throughout history. I'm not surprised in the least, really.

[The Iron Weasel]

Ditto, well for me it's the next [non-racing] Jak game, but same idea.

Oh man, I forgot that theres soposedly another Jak game comming out, I'll have to buy a PS3 for that and the new Ratchet and Clank aswell.

[The Continental]

Ethnocentrism. Happens all the time, all over the world, and throughout history. I'm not surprised in the least, really.

It takes place during the crusades, during this time many of the cities in the holy land were conqured and held by the crusading armies, and as a result were deemed "safe" for European pilgrims. Between a giant occupying army and all of the the personel that would travel with them from a logistics stand point, to the massive influx of pilgrims, it wouldn't be out of place for there to be lots of anglos in these cities.

If there is nothing but white people in the game, then we have a problem.

[digitalErich]

Oh man, I forgot that theres soposedly another Jak game comming out, I'll have to buy a PS3 for that and the new Ratchet and Clank aswell.
Yes, I am thinking the Jak game will be the PS3 seller for me. I liked the Ratchet and Clank games up until they went totally "area" style and were pumping out games too fast...really diluted the brand/universe for me. If they can get back to the roots of the first two games, I'm there.

But oh man, the city they could build on next-gen hardware for a new Jak game..../crave

[Doctor Setebos]

Thank the good lord, I don't have to buy a PS3 till MGS4.The best part is, you won't even have to buy it then! :D

[Yeti2005]

This is good news. I don't think anyone really believed Ubisoft would potentially neglect up to 10 million buyers but it was still a remote possibility until now.

[markster3000]

Unfortunate that they don't make any comparisons to the PS3 build.

[digitalErich]

It takes place during the crusades, during this time many of the cities in the holy land were conqured and held by the crusading armies, and as a result were deemed "safe" for European pilgrims. Between a giant occupying army and all of the the personel that would travel with them from a logistics stand point, to the massive influx of pilgrims, it wouldn't be out of place for there to be lots of anglos in these cities.

If there is nothing but white people in the game, then we have a problem.
Correct, but even in the "safe" cities, I don't think the populations were ever a European majority, but I could be wrong. Since this game seems to have some fantasy elements, it could be argued that this game need not be 100% historically accurate.

The more I see of this game, the more the world has sort of a Theif vibe to it - historically accurate for the most part, with an underlying or hidden layer of fantasy.

[51|RandoM]

I'm more concerned that the guy is wearing white. That must've sucked in the middle ages, trying to keep that outfit clean. If the guards can't see somebody coming dressed head to toe in white, it is time for some new guards.

[SexualChoc]

The Sony fanboy in me kept hoping this was PS3 exclusive, but now that's out on 360, good for them. It looks amazing, and can't wait to play it, no matter what console.

[Kamalot]

Oh man, I forgot that theres soposedly another Jak game comming out, I'll have to buy a PS3 for that and the new Ratchet and Clank aswell.
Naw. I'll wait till there is a SIGNIFICANT price drop. By then, the few games I am interested in will be in the discount pile and I'll get them for <$20.

[JazGalaxy]

Unfortunate that they don't make any comparisons to the PS3 build.

Well, the theory is that nobody has ever SEEN a PS3 build. The first time the game was shows was at the X show last year and The E3 version was supposedly running on Xboxs under blankets.

[JazGalaxy]

Thank the good lord, I don't have to buy a PS3 till MGS4.

You would actually pay, like, 1000 dollars for Metal Gear Solid?

[Varsity]

If the guards can't see somebody coming dressed head to toe in white, it is time for some new guards.
You may have noticed that the game doesn't take place at night. There's a reason. ;)

[Reanimated]

Can't wait to get the 360 version of this with the higher res textures. :)

[The Iron Weasel]

You would actually pay, like, 1000 dollars for Metal Gear Solid?

If it was THAT good...yes...yes I would.

[The Continental]

I'm more concerned that the guy is wearing white. That must've sucked in the middle ages, trying to keep that outfit clean. If the guards can't see somebody coming dressed head to toe in white, it is time for some new guards.

He only wears the white stuff because his other tunic has a giant "I (heart) Stabbing" emblazoned on it.

[Metal Jesus]

I plan on picking this up on the X360 too. This just looks awesome.

[bKangy]

Sweet. Not sure about the hype over the graphics still, but I'm glad I get a chance to play it.

[bapenguin]

I'll snag the Tiger Electronics Handheld port.

[Manzy]

I'll snag the Tiger Electronics Handheld port.

I can foster no love for the company that created t3h furby, even though their old-school handhelds rocked. =P

[torrefaction]

This game is what I've been most excited about for the next-gen. I really cannot wait to see what happens here.

[Mike Jones]

Unfortunate that they don't make any comparisons to the PS3 build.

They don't mention the word 360 once in the preview. They never say "360" version at all in the article. You do the math. This isn't a 360 version preview. It's a plain preview of the game.

[dimsumx]

Oh no! How will the Sonyboys react??? They were so adamant that the X360 version was a rumor! :)

Now that the game is out of the bag, I wonder if what we saw at E3 was indeed the Xbox360 version....

I seriously can't wait for this game.

[Manzy]

They don't mention the word 360 once in the preview. They never say "360" version at all in the article. You do the math. This isn't a 360 version preview. It's a plain preview of the game.


But they say under format "360" and um... Official Xbox Magazine? Why are you even trying to argue?

[dimsumx]

They don't mention the word 360 once in the preview. They never say "360" version at all in the article. You do the math. This isn't a 360 version preview. It's a plain preview of the game.

25-Jul-2006 Ubisoft's intriguing 360 and PS3 assassin 'em-up stalks through the streets of old Jerusalem

And let's point out the entire article is under the XBOX 360 PREVIEW section in nice big letters.

Hmm...methinks the math checks out.

[Reanimated]

Hmm...methinks the math checks out.


I was just about to post that. :cool:

[Ernst_Jager]

Looks pretty bad ass. I am beginning to think fighting the urge to buy a 360 is a losing battle.

[Kamalot]

You would actually pay, like, 1000 dollars for Metal Gear Solid?No. No game is worth $1000 when you can have just as much fun for a shitload less $.

[Xenkylm]

Thank the good lord, I don't have to buy a PS3 till MGS4.

I don't want to ruin the end for you, but I think Snake kills himself.

[Xenkylm]

by the way, is it just me, or is Ubisoft doing everything right lately?

[Venkman]

Why on earth are the in-game bystanders white?

Why are their british soldiers in the middle east during the crusades era?

The game centers around templars and the religious presence that forced its way back into the area during the time period. But I'm sure you will run into actual middle easterners in the game.

[dimsumx]

I'm just going to bring it up before the fanboys do:

(Denial) But it's still not confirmed by UbiSoft.
(Justification) One site doesn't make it official.
(Outrage) It's still a fucking rumor.
(Unsupported statement) Even if this was for Xbox, Sony will get this way before the Xbox 360 does.

[Mike Jones]

And let's point out the entire article is under the XBOX 360 PREVIEW section in nice big letters.

Hmm...methinks the math checks out.

Yep...and PSM did articles on Bioshock and Oblivion...guess those are facts now :)

[Varsity]

The game centers around templars and the religious presence that forced its way back into the area during the time period. But I'm sure you will run into actual middle easterners in the game.
As has already been pointed out, it's the fact that everyone in the crowd is white that is under question. Not that the crusaders are.

[Paranoia]

They don't mention the word 360 once in the preview. They never say "360" version at all in the article. You do the math. This isn't a 360 version preview. It's a plain preview of the game.

They did the preview on the xbox website. So how about you do the math?

[Lord Nerdious]

So can we call this Ubisoft's worst kept secret?

[antoniogaud]

I'm just going to bring it up before the fanboys do:

(Denial) But it's still not confirmed by UbiSoft.
(Justification) One site doesn't make it official.
(Outrage) It's still a fucking rumor.
(Unsupported statement) Even if this was for Xbox, Sony will get this way before the Xbox 360 does.

How is it a rumor when it is on the front section of the Official Xbox Magazine? DO you think they just did it on a whim? They just decided to fabricate screenshots and call them 360 images?

Please sir, it is YOU who are in the land of Denial! Ba!

[sTubbs]

How is it a rumor when it is on the front section of the Official Xbox Magazine? DO you think they just did it on a whim? They just decided to fabricate screenshots and call them 360 images?

Please sir, it is YOU who are in the land of Denial! Ba!

This happens all the time in video game publications. Magazines figure that a game is likely to come to a given platform, so they run a brief preview accompanied by a few screens. As mentioned above, PSM claimed that Oblivion was coming to the PS3. Turns out the screens they ran were from the 360 version.

I am not saying that Assassins Creed is not coming to the 360, as it almost certainly is (and hooray for that). I am merely pointing out that taking the word of a gaming mag is not exactly the most sensible thing to be doing.

[dimsumx]

How is it a rumor when it is on the front section of the Official Xbox Magazine? DO you think they just did it on a whim? They just decided to fabricate screenshots and call them 360 images?

Please sir, it is YOU who are in the land of Denial! Ba!

I guess I forgot the /sarcasm tag. I mean to expect this from the fanboys. I can't wait for the 360 version! :D

[Mike Jones]

How is it a rumor when it is on the front section of the Official Xbox Magazine? DO you think they just did it on a whim? They just decided to fabricate screenshots and call them 360 images?

Please sir, it is YOU who are in the land of Denial! Ba!


Like I said this is just like Bioshock is on the PS3 and so isn't Oblivion. They were both on the cover of PSM. I don't see confirmation of either.

[dimsumx]

Yep...and PSM did articles on Bioshock and Oblivion...guess those are facts now :)

The difference of course, is that PSM is an INDEPENDANT magazine, and this is coming from the OFFICIAL Xbox Magazine.

Take that for what it's worth.

[Lord Nerdious]

I remember when PSM said Stranger's Wrath was coming to PS2 and look how that turned out.

[Deadend]

Now, the important question...

What achivements does the game have?

[Mike Jones]

The difference of course, is that PSM is an INDEPENDANT magazine, and this is coming from the OFFICIAL Xbox Magazine.

Take that for what it's worth.

Well for a new web article they sure like to use old PS3 preview pics. I guess they couldn't get different 360 pics....

PS3

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/game.php?id=8371

360

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=143343

[Kelegacy]

Oh no! How will the Sonyboys react??? They were so adamant that the X360 version was a rumor! :)

Now that the game is out of the bag, I wonder if what we saw at E3 was indeed the Xbox360 version....

I seriously can't wait for this game.
This is how Sony fanboys can react:

Why buy a 360 when you can get a PC and all the same games?

[dimsumx]

Well for a new web article they sure like to use old PS3 preview pics. I guess they couldn't get different 360 pics....

PS3

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/game.php?id=8371

360

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=143343


The ones from E3? You're assuming those were PS3 pics to begin with. :rolleyes:

[51|RandoM]

This is how Sony fanboys can react:

Why buy a 360 when you can get a PC and all the same games?

I wish. Chromehounds is one of the most expensive games I've purchased. The xbox360 'attachment' I had to get to go along with it cost a bundle.

[Wyrm]

Well for a new web article they sure like to use old PS3 preview pics. I guess they couldn't get different 360 pics....

PS3

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/game.php?id=8371

360

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=143343

You a PS3 fanboy?

[Mike Jones]

You a PS3 fanboy?


Mike Jones to Ps3 = Reanimated to _________

:D

[Mdot23]

So can we call this Ubisoft's worst kept secret?

ubisoft :: assassin's creed AS bungie :: halo 3

both equally the worst kept secrets ever, haha.

[dimsumx]

ubisoft :: assassin's creed AS bungie :: halo 3

both equally the worst kept secrets ever, haha.

And the PS3 delay.

[Lord Nerdious]

I actually think Bungie did a pretty good job of keeping Halo 3 under wraps. But, how they announced it... ugh.

[Kelegacy]

I wish. Chromehounds is one of the most expensive games I've purchased. The xbox360 'attachment' I had to get to go along with it cost a bundle.
Why in the world would you buy a 360 for Chromehounds? Egads, man.

Then again, I'm not into the whole "mecha" thing, so whatever floats your boat.

[fitbabits]

Why in the world would you buy a 360 for Chromehounds? Egads, man.

Then again, I'm not into the whole "mecha" thing, so whatever floats your boat.
Because he's into the genre and people on here have been wailing since its release about how great it is (myself included). As you said, whatever floats his boat.

Then again, perhaps you would consided shelling out $? for the latest and greatest RPG?

[Nonentity]

I want to wield this information like a spear of justice, using it to thrust mighty holes in my roomates' PS3 Fanboy shield.

Will I buy a PS3? Yeah, for the games. But I'm glad I'm getting Assassin's Creed on my 360.

[Adam Blue]

So can we call this Ubisoft's worst kept secret?

Well, they were originally working on this project years ago for the XBox. Then officially announced it as a PS3 title. Earlier this year on a release list of games, it showed Assassin's Creed as an Xbox 360 title. Never officially announced, but then again, you don't have to do that.

I don't think they are trying to keep this secret. Maybe Sony just needed some ammo for the time-being.

[Kelegacy]

Because he's into the genre and people on here have been wailing since its release about how great it is (myself included). As you said, whatever floats his boat.

Then again, perhaps you would consided shelling out $? for the latest and greatest RPG?
I did, Oblivion. But Oblivion and Chromehounds are in two VERY different leagues of quality. I'm not really bashing Chromehounds (and I haven't played it, nor will I based on most reviews), but to me it's a broken game. A half-assed singleplayer campaign is inexcusable.

[fitbabits]

I did, Oblivion. But Oblivion and Chromehounds are in two VERY different leagues of quality. I'm not really bashing Chromehounds (and I haven't played it, nor will I based on most reviews), but to me it's a broken game. A half-assed singleplayer campaign is inexcusable.
See, here's the thing with Chromehounds - it's fundamentally NOT a single-player game to begin with. If the single player is there for any reason, it's for training purposes.

Give the 'tacked on' natue of the SP mode, I wouldn't be surprised to learn some time in the future that it was always designed as a multiplayer experience and SEGA (or someone else) persuaded From to add the SP just to make it more appealing to the masses. Sort of like what EA did with Battlefield 2: Modern Combat, except with less aplomb.

Anyway, denying yourself the pleasure of one of Xbox Live's most accomplished games based on some uninformed reviews is your prerogative. :)

[Bishop]

Sweet!

This is Awesome news.

[sTubbs]

This entire debate is moot. We are talking about Ubisoft here, the company that released Splinter Cell games on eight different platforms (NGage, GBA, DS, XBOX, PS2, GC, PC, cell). I can not think of a game made by them over the past years that did not hit at least four platforms. If Assassin's Creed does not come out for, at the very least, the 360, I will be shocked. I fully expect it to hit the PC as well.

While gaming mags are not exactly the most reliable source of information, Assassin's Creed is coming for the 360, just as Double Agent will be coming for the PS3. Unless you are a pathetic fanboy, this is in no way a bad thing.

[Major Dan]

GOOD NEWS!

Glad it was made public.

The game looks like it has a lot of potential.

[Mdot23]

I actually think Bungie did a pretty good job of keeping Halo 3 under wraps. But, how they announced it... ugh.

yea, they kept the info on it secret, and still do, but EVERYONE knew the game they were working on was that.

[Kelegacy]

See, here's the thing with Chromehounds - it's fundamentally NOT a single-player game to begin with. If the single player is there for any reason, it's for training purposes.

Give the 'tacked on' natue of the SP mode, I wouldn't be surprised to learn some time in the future that it was always designed as a multiplayer experience and SEGA (or someone else) persuaded From to add the SP just to make it more appealing to the masses. Sort of like what EA did with Battlefield 2: Modern Combat, except with less aplomb.

Anyway, denying yourself the pleasure of one of Xbox Live's most accomplished games based on some uninformed reviews is your prerogative. :)

From developed the game? That explains it. I know From from their PS1/PS2 games...and most are...hmm.

And I can't imagine that such a large number of reviews are "uninformed". A 70% average score on GameRankings doesn't mean a game is horrible by any means (hey, I played Disaster Report and it scored about the same or a bit lower) but it certainly isn't an upper-tier game. I'm not faulting you folks from enjoying it--I just can't muster the same enthusiasm as many EvAvers, and I enjoy most every genre of game. Sometimes I wonder how accepted these EvAv-hyped games would be if they showed up on a Sony machine instead of the 360...

[bapenguin]

A half-assed singleplayer campaign is inexcusable.

What if it was called Battlefield: Chromehounds?

It's all about perception (marketing) of what the product is.

[fitbabits]

From developed the game? That explains it. I know From from their PS1/PS2 games...and most are...hmm.

And I can't imagine that such a large number of reviews are "uninformed". A 70% average score on GameRankings doesn't mean a game is horrible by any means (hey, I played Disaster Report and it scored about the same or a bit lower) but it certainly isn't an upper-tier game. I'm not faulting you folks from enjoying it--I just can't muster the same enthusiasm as many EvAvers, and I enjoy most every genre of game. Sometimes I wonder how accepted these EvAv-hyped games would be if they showed up on a Sony machine instead of the 360...
Now, see, I was with you until I read the last sentence. You really need to work on your Sony-victimization complex. A good game is a good game regardless of which platform it is on. Not everyone sees it that way, I know, but to question the motives of those of us who like and play GRAW, Oblivion, Chromehounds, etc. seems a little bitter to me. Are you suggesting that those of us who paid for GRAW (and Chapter 2), Oblivion, Chromehounds, etc. only did so because they were released on Xbox 360? And further to that - are you also suggesting that those of us who play those games so much are only doing so because they are on the 360?

I know you've said time and time again that you're no Sony fanboy, but when you say shit like the last sentence, you're really doing yourself a disservice.

Oh, and From also developed both Otogi games for the Xbox and they are fine examples of the genre. Or do you disagree because they are exclusive to the Xbox?

[greenapple]

Can anyone throw out a few more examples of critically panned (or at least "bleahed") games that they felt were actually really good? By panned I mean on the average, not just one or two reviews.

I can recall many games that were critically lauded but faired badly sales wise, my mind is just coming up blank on the situation I proposed, above.

Usually, I find myself more critical than the critics (i.e. I think game ratings are inflated). Rarely do I find myself on the other side of the equation.

[Manzy]

Oh, and From also developed both Otogi games for the Xbox and they are fine examples of the genre. Or do you disagree because they are exclusive to the Xbox?

I thought Software devoloped otogi?

EDIT* I am a moron, never knew *From Software* was the dev's name, haha.

[Siraris]

OH SUCK IT DOWN SONY FANBOIS OH BURN BURN BURN.

Such immaturity, it's incredible how personally people take things.

The funny thing is that this is not news at all. First of all, look at the article, it's someone verbalizing a video from E3. There is no mention of where this preview was given, what it was running on, nothing. Secondly, Ubisofts website still only says PS3, and there has been no official statement from any company at all that it's coming out on anything other than PS3.

It's an interesting sign, though, at how much people want this game.

[Watership]

So this game takes place during the Third Crusade...

or does it...

[51|RandoM]

I did, Oblivion. But Oblivion and Chromehounds are in two VERY different leagues of quality. I'm not really bashing Chromehounds (and I haven't played it, nor will I based on most reviews), but to me it's a broken game. A half-assed singleplayer campaign is inexcusable.

I can(and did) play Oblivion on my PC. Can't do that for Chromehounds. Hmm, can't play Oblivion multiplayer either(well, not without that mod somebody is working on).

Considering there are no modern pc games featuring squad-based mech combat, it isn't like I had much choice. The multiplayer in Chromehounds is very well done.

Seems pretty obvious to me the reviewers didn't review that part of the game, or were people who wanted more dumbed-down console action games with mech trappings like MechAssault.

The singleplayer campaign is just fine, imho, it serves its purpose.

Can't find any other 360 games I'm interested in enough to buy, though. Might get PGR3, but I'm kind of tired of racing games. I never even opened the latest version of GT I purchased.

[Watership]

Why in the world would you buy a 360 for Chromehounds? Egads, man.

Then again, I'm not into the whole "mecha" thing, so whatever floats your boat.

10 mins of watching me mess around in Chromehounds made a friend of mine go out and get a 360. Shrug. I would love it more if the online interface doesn't purposely push you back 5 menus with every connect fail. Other than that, its pretty awesome online. I've only played GRAW more online.

[Reanimated]

I remember when PSM said Stranger's Wrath was coming to PS2 and look how that turned out.



Stranger's Wrath was actually announced for the PS2 by EA and OI after EA picked up the publishing rights. It was later shitcanned because overcoming the technical issues of porting it were going to cost a fortune.

[ArchVile]

I really couldn't care less about who wins in this "console war" (i love my PC too much), but all these people saying "SUCK IT DOWN SONY FANBOYS!!!11!", doesn't that make you an Xbox/Wii fanboy? Pitiful...

[uthul99]

Where Do U Go To Activate A Guest Pass For WoW?!?!
Please Give Me An Exact Site Please!!

The answer you seek is in the picture below:

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a390/fitbabits/BanHammer.jpg

[absolut taco]

Where Do U Go To Activate A Guest Pass For WoW?!?!
Please Give Me An Exact Site Please!!
Fix your goddamn keyboard. Your typing gives me a headache. After that, stop posting WoW questions in non-WoW threads.

[SexualChoc]

I really couldn't care less about who wins in this "console war" (i love my PC too much), but all these people saying "SUCK IT DOWN SONY FANBOYS!!!11!", doesn't that make you an Xbox/Wii fanboy? Pitiful...

In a way yes. But it could also mean your just anti Sony. Although as everyone here is a gamer, it makes them a fanboy of the Wii and 360 by default. Of course, there are the PC gamers....

[thecrazyd]

In a way yes. But it could also mean your just anti Sony. Although as everyone here is a gamer, it makes them a fanboy of the Wii and 360 by default. Of course, there are the PC gamers....
I am a gamer who is in no way a fanboy of the 360.

[Phades]

See, here's the thing with Chromehounds - it's fundamentally NOT a single-player game to begin with. If the single player is there for any reason, it's for training purposes.

Give the 'tacked on' natue of the SP mode, I wouldn't be surprised to learn some time in the future that it was always designed as a multiplayer experience and SEGA (or someone else) persuaded From to add the SP just to make it more appealing to the masses. Sort of like what EA did with Battlefield 2: Modern Combat, except with less aplomb.

Anyway, denying yourself the pleasure of one of Xbox Live's most accomplished games based on some uninformed reviews is your prerogative. :)

You're right fit. Heck, if you look at the manual it even calls the single player "training." The idea is that when you complete the single player campaign for a particular Hound you'll have a good idea of how it's meant to play in its role online.

[OUX]

In a way yes. But it could also mean your just anti Sony. Although as everyone here is a gamer, it makes them a fanboy of the Wii and 360 by default. Of course, there are the PC gamers....

I'm no fanboy I hate all platforms equally.

[Kelegacy]

Now, see, I was with you until I read the last sentence. You really need to work on your Sony-victimization complex. A good game is a good game regardless of which platform it is on.

I know you've said time and time again that you're no Sony fanboy, but when you say shit like the last sentence, you're really doing yourself a disservice.


C'mon. The only time I feel like a Sony victim is when I come to this site. I make no qualms that I think the PS1 and PS2 are two of the best videogame systems ever, but that still doesn't make me a fanboy. What I said is true: Sony games repeatedly get the shaft but if the same game was for the 360 instead, it gets heralded. Resistance: Fall of Man has been hammered repeatedly for how it "looks", even making the front page when submitted by Reanimated. Chromehounds has pretty empty landscapes but gets stroked like an aching penis, even before it was released.

And if I'm a Sony sympathizer, it is because I don't agree with half of the comments, news fodder, and constant prodding that goes on here. If the same thing happened to Nintendo (and it used to) I would be just as upset. Sometimes I feel like I'm reading the same shit on a different day here in regards to Playstation hating. There's an obvious double standard going on, especially when moderators themselves encourage such flamboyant behavior. I thought they are supposed to be fireFIGHTERS, not firestarters. Yes, I know that starting flamewars gets people to read your newspost but it still isn't ethical news reporting.

Yeah, wah wah wah, I'm complaining again, I'm a Sony fanbot, but whatever. I'm not. You could, on the other hand, call me a Sony hater because I don't own a PSP and I praise the DS all the time. The fact of the matter is I am a gamer, I have no true console alliances, but no matter how often I try to say that I get pigeonholed into the Sony fanboy slot. I should be a Nintendo fanboy, too, or even a Microsoft groupie. I do own a 360 AND Xbox and I've stated I've liked both, even with their faults. But when I speak up in defense of Sony, I'm a fanboy? I'm just calling it as I see it.

C'mon fitbabits. Don't label me so easily.

[SexualChoc]

I am a gamer who is in no way a fanboy of the 360.


I'm no fanboy I hate all platforms equally.

I never said you were (in as many words at least). If you hate something, you hate it. It doesn't mean you like it's competitor be default, which is what I was trying to point out. There are 3 parties, and if you hate one, you don't necessary like the others. But it could be seen that, as you hate one, you must like at least one if not both of the other competitors. I know this not to be true, and apologise.

[OUX]

C'mon. The only time I feel like a Sony victim is when I come to this site. I make no qualms that I think the PS1 and PS2 are two of the best videogame systems ever, but that still doesn't make me a fanboy. What I said is true: Sony games repeatedly get the shaft but if the same game was for the 360 instead, it gets heralded. Resistance: Fall of Man has been hammered repeatedly for how it "looks", even making the front page when submitted by Reanimated. Chromehounds has pretty empty landscapes but gets stroked like an aching penis, even before it was released.

And if I'm a Sony sympathizer, it is because I don't agree with half of the comments, news fodder, and constant prodding that goes on here. If the same thing happened to Nintendo (and it used to) I would be just as upset. Sometimes I feel like I'm reading the same shit on a different day here in regards to Playstation hating. There's an obvious double standard going on, especially when moderators themselves encourage such flamboyant behavior. I thought they are supposed to be fireFIGHTERS, not firestarters. Yes, I know that starting flamewars gets people to read your newspost but it still isn't ethical news reporting.

Yeah, wah wah wah, I'm complaining again, I'm a Sony fanbot, but whatever. I'm not. You could, on the other hand, call me a Sony hater because I don't own a PSP and I praise the DS all the time. The fact of the matter is I am a gamer, I have no true console alliances, but no matter how often I try to say that I get pigeonholed into the Sony fanboy slot. I should be a Nintendo fanboy, too, or even a Microsoft groupie. I do own a 360 AND Xbox and I've stated I've liked both, even with their faults. But when I speak up in defense of Sony, I'm a fanboy? I'm just calling it as I see it.

C'mon fitbabits. Don't label me so easily.

I agree with you on just about every point the only things I would say that I think the anti-sony crap flying around here is from annoyance rather than real dislike. I have heard many good things about sony since their root kit fiasco and since then they have done their best to nail their foot in the ground. Once they finally deliver and the PS3 comes out (and some games) I think that EvAv will sway back to normal levels of hate.

[OUX]

I never said you were (in as many words at least). If you hate something, you hate it. It doesn't mean you like it's competitor be default, which is what I was trying to point out. There are 3 parties, and if you hate one, you don't necessary like the others. But it could be seen that, as you hate one, you must like at least one if not both of the other competitors. I know this not to be true, and apologise.
My bad.....I forgot the eye roll on my post......so here it is now " :rolleyes: "

[Kelegacy]

Me boohooing
I apologize for my rant. I hate getting drawn into all this platform warring, but it looks like I just fell prey to the very thing I try to avoid. God damn each and every last one of you

[OUX]

I apologize for my rant. I hate getting drawn into all this platform warring, but it looks like I just fell prey to the very thing I try to avoid. God damn each and every last one of you

Hey I am still upset with you for not posting a new story in the LJ in for-god-damn-ever.

[Adam Blue]

I agree with Kelegacy. Although it doesn't bother me much because I prefer mods on gaming sites to have an opinion...whatever it may be. No matter how one-sided the article is, I know the truth.

[Kelegacy]

Hey I am still upset with you for not posting a new story in the LJ in for-god-damn-ever.
Hmm. Try here (www.kbartlettjr.blogspot.com). I might have a couple on there you haven't seen. I haven't written much fiction since I last updated that site. Throw stones at me, I deserve it.

I joined a physical writer's group last month and right now I'm brainstorming something that fits perfectly with my personality but I've never attempted: erotica. I'm trying something different, and though it's not going to be gratuitous, the subject matter and conflict are very sexual.

[fitbabits]

C'mon fitbabits. Don't label me so easily.
If the shoe fits, wear it. :D

[Achilles]

I’m glad that there’s finally some proof that it’s coming to the 360 for literal folks like Mr. Condescension. I’ll be picking it up on the 360. There’s the less RAM problem with the PS3, but as far as gameplay goes, I’d rather be able to feel when I brush against someone with the vibration instead of try to figure it out from the animations. They could also use it for grip when you're climbing around like SotC did.

[Siraris]

C'mon. The only time I feel like a Sony victim is when I come to this site. I make no qualms that I think the PS1 and PS2 are two of the best videogame systems ever, but that still doesn't make me a fanboy. What I said is true: Sony games repeatedly get the shaft but if the same game was for the 360 instead, it gets heralded. Resistance: Fall of Man has been hammered repeatedly for how it "looks", even making the front page when submitted by Reanimated. Chromehounds has pretty empty landscapes but gets stroked like an aching penis, even before it was released.

And if I'm a Sony sympathizer, it is because I don't agree with half of the comments, news fodder, and constant prodding that goes on here. If the same thing happened to Nintendo (and it used to) I would be just as upset. Sometimes I feel like I'm reading the same shit on a different day here in regards to Playstation hating. There's an obvious double standard going on, especially when moderators themselves encourage such flamboyant behavior. I thought they are supposed to be fireFIGHTERS, not firestarters. Yes, I know that starting flamewars gets people to read your newspost but it still isn't ethical news reporting.

Yeah, wah wah wah, I'm complaining again, I'm a Sony fanbot, but whatever. I'm not. You could, on the other hand, call me a Sony hater because I don't own a PSP and I praise the DS all the time. The fact of the matter is I am a gamer, I have no true console alliances, but no matter how often I try to say that I get pigeonholed into the Sony fanboy slot. I should be a Nintendo fanboy, too, or even a Microsoft groupie. I do own a 360 AND Xbox and I've stated I've liked both, even with their faults. But when I speak up in defense of Sony, I'm a fanboy? I'm just calling it as I see it.

C'mon fitbabits. Don't label me so easily.

Wonderfully written post. Unfortunately you can't change peoples minds, and most people won't take the time to read or take what you have to say to heart.

[Siraris]

Can someone PLEASE tell me where it says that Assassins Creed is coming out on 360? I have yet to see anything more than some site posting an extremely unsubstantial preview that could be gleaned from any video released since E3.

[Reanimated]

I’m glad that there’s finally some proof that it’s coming to the 360 for literal folks like Mr. Condescension. I’ll be picking it up on the 360. There’s the less RAM problem with the PS3, but as far as gameplay goes, I’d rather be able to feel when I brush against someone with the vibration instead of try to figure it out from the animations. They could also use it for grip when you're climbing around like SotC did.




Yeah, the vibration when you bump into people would be a good upgrade, in addition to the higher resolution textures the 360 version will enjoy.

[Kamalot]

Can someone PLEASE tell me where it says that Assassins Creed is coming out on 360? I have yet to see anything more than some site posting an extremely unsubstantial preview that could be gleaned from any video released since E3.
Well, if you click on the original article (http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=143343) you will see the following...

Xbox: Xbox 360 PreviewsPreview
Assassin's Creed
Format Xbox 360
Developer Ubisoft
Publisher Ubisoft
Genre Action, Adventure
25-Jul-2006 Ubisoft's intriguing 360 and PS3 assassin 'em-up stalks through the streets of old Jerusalem

Were you referring to something else or being purposefully dense?

[thecrazyd]

Yeah, the vibration when you bump into people would be a good upgrade, in addition to the higher resolution textures the 360 version will enjoy.
Where did you hear it would have higher res textures, or is this a subtle attempt at trolling?

[fitbabits]

Were you referring to something else or being purposfully dense?
Methinks that was what he was referring to when he said:

...some site posting an extremely unsubstantial preview that could be gleaned from any video released since E3.

[fitbabits]

Where did you hear it would have higher res textures, or is this a subtle attempt at trolling?
Can it not be both? ;)

[Kamalot]

Where did you hear it would have higher res textures, or is this a subtle attempt at trolling?
If I am not mistaken, the 360 has more ram than can be used for textures than the PS3 does.

[Siraris]

Well, if you click on the original article (http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=143343) you will see the following...



Were you referring to something else or being purposfully dense?

I'm glad that a CVG article says that, but I don't see how the preview that they posted, or what you quoted, makes Assassins Creed a 360 title. If I make a website and put:

Playstation: Playstation 3 PreviewsPreview
Gears of War
Format Playstation 3
Developer Epic
Publisher Sony
Genre FPS
25-Jul-2006 Epic's 360 destined shooter is now on it's way to PS3

Does that mean that it's true? Granted, I don't run a site like CVG, but where is there any sort of statement from any company about this? What they wrote didn't say that they got to see any sort of new preview, there is no official statement from Ubisoft, there is no mention of this ANYWHERE else except CVG. Wouldn't this be all over the net if it was official news?

[jeffbax]

Put me in the boat of "was the only ps3 games I was remotely interested in" :)

[Siraris]

If I am not mistaken, the 360 has more ram than can be used for textures than the PS3 does.

The 360 has 512 megs of shared RAM for graphics and everything else. If developers load 400 megs of textures into RAM, they only have 100 megs for all the other game code, physics, AI, etc.

So yes, 360 could have more than 256 megs of textures in RAM at one time, but that could also mean that everything else in the game will suffer.

[thecrazyd]

If I am not mistaken, the 360 has more ram than can be used for textures than the PS3 does.
But even if it does, as a port I doubt they would redo the textures for it. If that is what he is basing it on, then I hope he prepares to be disapointed.

[Kamalot]

I'm glad that a CVG article says that, but I don't see how the preview that they posted, or what you quoted, makes Assassins Creed a 360 title. If I make a website and put:



Does that mean that it's true? Granted, I don't run a site like CVG, but where is there any sort of statement from any company about this? What they wrote didn't say that they got to see any sort of new preview, there is no official statement from Ubisoft, there is no mention of this ANYWHERE else except CVG. Wouldn't this be all over the net if it was official news?
Boy, you are REALLY grasping at straws if you question the legitimacy of CVG.

Do you still believe the world is flat, that the earth revolves around the sun, that evolution is a myth and that global warming is a theory?

[Kamalot]

The 360 has 512 megs of shared RAM for graphics and everything else. If developers load 400 megs of textures into RAM, they only have 100 megs for all the other game code, physics, AI, etc.

So yes, 360 could have more than 256 megs of textures in RAM at one time, but that could also mean that everything else in the game will suffer.
Good to know! I wasn't making the claim, but trying to explain why i thought someone else would make the texture claim.

[Siraris]

Boy, you are REALLY grasping at straws if you question the legitimacy of CVG. Desperate?

I disagree, I think everyone is grasping at straws that Assassins Creed is coming to 360. When there is an official announcement from Ubisoft that AC is coming to 360, I will be more than satisfied. Until then, I am not going to agree with this completely baseless rumor that is totally unsubstantiated.

If the article said "We were at Ubisoft today and got to see the 360 version in action" I'd agree it was coming to 360. If it said ANYTHING about 360 development, I'd agree it was coming to 360. ALL this article contains is a preview of what we saw at E3.

The only reason this was posted is that this preview showed up on CVG. That 360 information could have been on the site since it was shown at X05.

[Reanimated]

On the higher res textures - I'm just making an assumption based on the fact that Starbreeze studios recently said in an interview that the 360 version of The Darkness will have higher resolution textures because they have more memory to work with on the 360. I just assume this will be the case with all games, since the 360 has the UMA that allows devs to allocate more memory to sharper visuals.

[Zanzibar]

I'm glad that a CVG article says that, but I don't see how the preview that they posted, or what you quoted, makes Assassins Creed a 360 title. If I make a website and put:



Does that mean that it's true? Granted, I don't run a site like CVG, but where is there any sort of statement from any company about this? What they wrote didn't say that they got to see any sort of new preview, there is no official statement from Ubisoft, there is no mention of this ANYWHERE else except CVG. Wouldn't this be all over the net if it was official news?
CVG reported (http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=142409) that Ubisoft reps confirmed to a French Xbox site that Assassin's Creed was coming to both X360 and PC in addition to the PS3.

Now, whether THAT is true...

[fitbabits]

Can someone PLEASE tell me where it says that Assassins Creed is coming out on 360? I have yet to see anything more than some site posting an extremely unsubstantial preview that could be gleaned from any video released since E3.
Not sure if this qualifies:
Assassin's Creed cuts throats on 360 and PC!
Tuesday 4-Jul-2006 9:57 AM Ubisoft reps confirm the splendid looking PS3 title will be stealthing its way onto PC and 360

Fresh word whispered this morning on Assassin's Creed, the intriguing looking assassin-'em-up from Ubisoft, with company representatives apparently confirming to French site Xbox Gamer.net that the title is also in development for 360 and PC.

There have long been dark mutters and whispers behind the scenes that the Creed will be tapping up Xbox 360, but a PC version is a somewhat welcome surprise. The game debuted at this year's E3 with a lavish trailer setting the scene for a medieval romp through the Crusader era while offering tantalising glimpses of a modern backstory. Intrigued? We most certainly were.

According to the site, Sony may have a little exclusivity period in place so PC and 360 versions can be expected to follow after the PS3 iteration. But good news and trebles all around as this is one title which has us really very excited. More news as we get it, but check out our PS3 coverage of the title to learn more and see the movie trailer.
Source (http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=142409).

[thecrazyd]

On the higher res textures - I'm just making an assumption based on the fact that Starbreeze studios recently said in an interview that the 360 version of The Darkness will have higher resolution textures because they have more memory to work with on the 360. I just assume this will be the case with all games, since the 360 has the UMA that allows devs to allocate more memory to sharper visuals.
Prepare for disapointment! I am prepared for your further trolling.

[Kamalot]

On the higher res textures - I'm just making an assumption based on the fact that Starbreeze studios recently said in an interview that the 360 version of The Darkness will have higher resolution textures because they have more memory to work with on the 360. I just assume this will be the case with all games, since the 360 has the UMA that allows devs to allocate more memory to sharper visuals.
I didn't realize that. Do you have a link to the source? I'd like to read more.

[Zanzibar]

The 360 has 512 megs of shared RAM for graphics and everything else. If developers load 400 megs of textures into RAM, they only have 100 megs for all the other game code, physics, AI, etc.

So yes, 360 could have more than 256 megs of textures in RAM at one time, but that could also mean that everything else in the game will suffer.

"Suffer." Nice.

PS2 had 40mb RAM. Xbox had 64. Gameplay itself - meaning runtime AIs and player controls - hasn't changed significantly for the X360 or PS3. That means that, apart from textures, nothing that the X360 or PS3 have been showing would 'break the bank' if they suddenly had to 'suffer' with a mere 256mb RAM for those procedures.

AI doesn't require more memory, it requires better processing speed. Physics is the same way.

Seriously, stop it. You don't know what you're talking about. Limiting the devs is the ABSOLUTE LAST thing you should do.

[Reanimated]

I didn't realize that. Do you have a link to the source? I'd like to read more.


http://www.gameinformer.com/Magazine/Insider/Articles/Article/200608/A06.0707.1042.51750.htm

You might have to be an Unlimited member... not sure, but here's the quote:

GI: What do you like about working on the PS3? How about the Xbox 360? Will there be any major differences between the two versions?

Högdahl: So far the two versions look pretty much the same – quite unsurprisingly, since we use the same shader source code and content for both platforms. They will be identical gameplay-wise. There will only be very minor cosmetic differences, such as... on the Xbox 360 we have a bit more room for textures in memory.

[thecrazyd]

http://www.gameinformer.com/Magazine/Insider/Articles/Article/200608/A06.0707.1042.51750.htm

You might have to be an Unlimited member... not sure, but here's the quote:
So, because one developer said their may be minor differences due to the 360 having "a bit more room for textures in memory", you are assuming that every game will have noticeably higher res textures?

[GrinR]

I did, Oblivion. But Oblivion and Chromehounds are in two VERY different leagues of quality. I'm not really bashing Chromehounds (and I haven't played it, nor will I based on most reviews), but to me it's a broken game. A half-assed singleplayer campaign is inexcusable.

This is silly. Oblivion has zero multiplayer modes - is a non-existant multiplayer mode "inexcusable"?

(rhetorical question.)

[OUX]

Why doesn't someone just get the Ubisoft customer service line point them to the website and ask them? Would that be proof enough?

[GrinR]

Boy, you are REALLY grasping at straws if you question the legitimacy of CVG.

Do you still believe the world is flat, that the earth revolves around the sun, that evolution is a myth and that global warming is a theory?

Citing things with 50% accuracy is not helping your point.

[Zanzibar]

Citing things with 50% accuracy is not helping your point.
/foreheadsmack

[Kelegacy]

This is silly. Oblivion has zero multiplayer modes - is a non-existant multiplayer mode "inexcusable"?

(rhetorical question.)
It's an RPG. I don't think a multiplayer mode would be feasible unless this was a MMORPG. And I'd rather have a great SP campaign over a multiplayer focus. But that's just me. Plus, you have to pay to play online, which, currently, I am not prepared to do. At least until a game comes along that really tugs my weiner.

[GrinR]

/foreheadsmack

Don't get your hemp panties in a bunch - Evolution is not a "myth", it's a theory. Global Warming is not a theory, it's a phenominon.

[Reanimated]

So, because one developer said their may be minor differences due to the 360 having "a bit more room for textures in memory", you are assuming that every game will have noticeably higher res textures?




No, I'm saying that's the evidence that backs up my theory that all 360 games will have higher resolution textures because of the 360's unified memory architecture. I had been making that assumption way before Starbreeze ever came along and confirmed it.

[Zanzibar]

Don't get your hemp panties in a bunch - Evolution is not a "myth", it's a theory. Global Warming is not a theory, it's a phenominon.

Whew. Thanks GrinR ;)

[Siraris]

http://www.gameinformer.com/Magazine/Insider/Articles/Article/200608/A06.0707.1042.51750.htm

You might have to be an Unlimited member... not sure, but here's the quote:

Might I point out that Magnus Hogdhal is a DESIGNER and not a programmer and he is also working on a multi-platform title which is not taking into consideration pushing either the 360 or the PS3 to it's threshhold. I'm willing to guess that the 360 is more familiar to his team (having done Chronicles of Riddick on XBox) and they don't feel like taking the time to understand the PS3's architecture.

As for other peoples arguments that texture details will be lower on the PS3, that's ridiculous. It comes down more to bandwith than how much RAM you have to use. The higher the bandwith, the more detail you can push onto your polygons as well as utilizing bandwith intensive filters.

The Cell and the RSX are connected by a 35 GB/s bus which will allow them to work together without going through a huge bottleneck. This means that if there is room in the system RAM and the RSX needs more space for textures, it's available. Furthermore, if you store textures on the system RAM, you can read from the system ram at 48 GB/s through the two buses, which is on par with the high-end cards out today.

So yes, people can all jump around and say "LOOK 360 HAS A BIGGER NUMBER ITS TEH BETTAR!", but it's a LOT more complicated than that. Both systems have upsides and downsides.

[Zanzibar]

No, I'm saying that's the evidence that backs up my theory that all 360 games will have higher resolution textures because of the 360's unified memory architecture. I had been making that assumption way before Starbreeze ever came along and confirmed it.

Ack! You mean 'all 360 games CAN have higher resolution textures'. Whether or not the devs WILL take advantage of that (as opposed to merely developing for the PS3's texture limits and using those straight across on the X360) is up to them.

/troll on
Funny, that's what happened last gen, too. Everybody developed their games for the lower-quality Sony texture limits. ;) /troll off

[GrinR]

It's an RPG. I don't think a multiplayer mode would be feasible unless this was a MMORPG. And I'd rather have a great SP campaign over a multiplayer focus. But that's just me. Plus, you have to pay to play online, which, currently, I am not prepared to do. At least until a game comes along that really tugs my weiner.

It's a squad-based mech battle game. I don't think a single-player mode would be feasible unless there was significantly better AI code in the world. And I'd rather have a great multiplayer strategy game over a single-player scripted campaign. But that's just me. Plus, it's free, unless you count Live as a "cost".

[thecrazyd]

No, I'm saying that's the evidence that backs up my theory that all 360 games will have higher resolution textures because of the 360's unified memory architecture. I had been making that assumption way before Starbreeze ever came along and confirmed it.
Except they didn't confirm anything. And that theory is absurd to anyone who is not a insane MS fanboy.

[Achilles]

No, I'm saying that's the evidence that backs up my theory that all 360 games will have higher resolution textures because of the 360's unified memory architecture. I had been making that assumption way before Starbreeze ever came along and confirmed it.This is also starting to show up in screenshots of PS3 games. Resistance for example, used to have all kinds of cool normal mapping and specular on their monsters, but in the latest screenshots you can see that they're cutting that back, presumably as they try to fit it into the RAM that the final system will have. Unlike the 360, PS3 dev kits have twice as much ram as the final system, so if they use that RAM during development they'll have to cut back as they get closer to ship, as they used to with the Xbox 1.

[Reanimated]

Ack! You mean 'all 360 games CAN have higher resolution textures'. Whether or not the devs WILL take advantage of that (as opposed to merely developing for the PS3's texture limits and using those straight across on the X360) is up to them.

/troll on
Funny, that's what happened last gen, too. Everybody developed their games for the lower-quality Sony texture limits. ;) /troll off




Sadly, that's probably what is going to happen again this gen. Another shitty sony design fucks consumers out of realizing the full potential of their consoles. AWESOME!

[Reanimated]

This is also starting to show up in screenshots of PS3 games. Resistance for example, used to have all kinds of cool normal mapping and specular on their monsters, but in the latest screenshots you can see that they're cutting that back, presumably as they try to fit it into the RAM that the final system will have. Unlike the 360, PS3 dev kits have twice as much ram as the final system, so if they use that RAM during development they'll have to cut back as they get closer to ship, as they used to with the Xbox 1.



Yeah, I was going to point out all the PS3 games having muddy textures, but I'll just let you roll with it. :p

[GrinR]

I'm not sure why people are still talking about graphics. The Xbox beat the living shit out of the PS2 graphically. I don't see how the PS3 is going to be any different.

Note: I am neither saying the PS3 games will look BAD nor that they won't be tons of fun.

[torrefaction]

Except they didn't confirm anything. And that theory is absurd to anyone who is not a insane MS fanboy.

Heh. How in the hell is that absured. They have more memory to work with, and it's much more flexible. What's absurd is just dismissing outright that this could be true. It just shows a lack of understanding of the architectures.

[absolut taco]

On the higher res textures - I'm just making an assumption based on the fact that Starbreeze studios recently said in an interview that the 360 version of The Darkness will have higher resolution textures because they have more memory to work with on the 360. I just assume this will be the case with all games, since the 360 has the UMA that allows devs to allocate more memory to sharper visuals.
Reality called, and wants to know where you've been.

[torrefaction]

Reality called, and wants to know where you've been.

Technology called, and asked if you've taken the time to really understand it yet.

[absolut taco]

Unlike the 360, PS3 dev kits have twice as much ram as the final system, so if they use that RAM during development they'll have to cut back as they get closer to ship, as they used to with the Xbox 1.
Whose bright idea was that? Is that a late spec change?

[Siraris]

http://www.gameinformer.com/Magazine/Insider/Articles/Article/200608/A06.0707.1042.51750.htm

You might have to be an Unlimited member... not sure, but here's the quote:

Might I point out that Magnus Hogdhal is a DESIGNER and not a programmer and he is also working on a multi-platform title which is not taking into consideration pushing either the 360 or the PS3 to it's threshhold. I'm willing to guess that the 360 is more familiar to his team (having done Chronicles of Riddick on XBox) and they don't feel like taking the time to understand the PS3's architecture.

As for other peoples arguments that texture details will be lower on the PS3, that's ridiculous. It comes down more to bandwith than how much RAM you have to use. The higher the bandwith, the more detail you can push onto your polygons as well as utilizing bandwith intensive filters.

The Cell and the RSX are connected by a 35 GB/s bus which will allow them to work together without going through a huge bottleneck. This means that if there is room in the system RAM and the RSX needs more space for textures, it's available. Furthermore, if you store textures on the system RAM, you can read from the system ram at 48 GB/s through the two buses, which is on par with the high-end cards out today.

So yes, people can all jump around and say "LOOK 360 HAS A BIGGER NUMBER ITS TEH BETTAR!", but it's a LOT more complicated than that. Both systems have upsides and downsides.

[thecrazyd]

Heh. How in the hell is that absured. They have more memory to work with, and it's much more flexible. What's absurd is just dismissing outright that this could be true. It just shows a lack of understanding of the architectures.
No, what is absurd is anyone thinking that every port will have higher res textures on any system. I understand the architectures, just the idea that it would be done in every game is just stupid.

[Achilles]

Whose bright idea was that? Is that a late spec change?There’s a good practical reason for doing it. Developers need to use tools to do debuging and monitor performance; these take up memory. If your devkits have as much memory as the final system it’ll make running bulky debugging tools a problem. The only down-side is that some (many) developers don't think about the space issues until late in development, and then end up chopping as they get closer to ship.

[Reanimated]

No, what is absurd is anyone thinking that every port will have higher res textures on any system. I understand the architectures, just the idea that it would be done in every game is just stupid.



The Darkness has been developed on 360 as the baseline, so I'm simply hoping that, like Starbreeze, developers use 360 as the baseline and then port down to PS3.

[absolut taco]

[url]You might have to be an Unlimited member... not sure, but here's the quote:

Högdahl: So far the two versions look pretty much the same – quite unsurprisingly, since we use the same shader source code and content for both platforms. They will be identical gameplay-wise. There will only be very minor cosmetic differences, such as... on the Xbox 360 we have a bit more room for textures in memory.
Here is the full original quote. Of course, Reanimated had to remove the little bit of positive PS3 text so that it looks like his 360 is all-powerful:

Högdahl: So far the two versions look pretty much the same – quite unsurprisingly, since we use the same shader source code and content for both platforms. They will be identical gameplay-wise. There will only be very minor cosmetic differences, such as the PS3 will have better quality video for the in-game TVs and on the Xbox 360 we have a bit more room for textures in memory.

[CrashCart]

Boy, you are REALLY grasping at straws if you question the legitimacy of CVG.

Do you still believe the world is flat, that the earth revolves around the sun, that evolution is a myth and that global warming is a theory?
Citing things with 50% accuracy is not helping your point.
Don't get your hemp panties in a bunch - Evolution is not a "myth", it's a theory. Global Warming is not a theory, it's a phenominon.

Well, as long as we all still agree that the Earth is flat. :D

[thecrazyd]

The Darkness has been developed on 360 as the baseline, so I'm simply hoping that, like Starbreeze, developers use 360 as the baseline and then port down to PS3.
And you do not see how it would be more practical to make an even version for both systems?

[Reanimated]

And you do not see how it would be more practical to make an even version for both systems?



Scaling back texture resolution isn't hard, so I don't see why devs wouldn't just start with a high res set and then downgrade for the PS3. Think of it like PC games where you can choose your texture resolution in the game settings. Same difference.

[Achilles]

There will only be very minor cosmetic differences, such as the PS3 will have better quality video for the in-game TVs and on the Xbox 360 we have a bit more room for textures in memory.That's a pretty cool use for the PS3's multimedia type capabilities actually. I always assumed the Cell was created for this sort of picture-in-picture stuff. Might as well make use of it in the games as well.

Edit: Zanzibar's comment below, about this being a result of Blu-ray, is another interesting byproduct of the PS3's multimedia stuff. If I were working on a PS3 game I have some ideas about how this could be used myself, but I’ll keep em under my vest till I see them pop up in the next FF game.

[Zanzibar]

Here is the full original quote. Of course, Reanimated had to remove the little bit of positive PS3 text so that it looks like his 360 is all-powerful:

Högdahl: So far the two versions look pretty much the same – quite unsurprisingly, since we use the same shader source code and content for both platforms. They will be identical gameplay-wise. There will only be very minor cosmetic differences, such as the PS3 will have better quality video for the in-game TVs and on the Xbox 360 we have a bit more room for textures in memory.

ROFL- do you know why? BLU-RAY STORAGE SPACE!! Yes, kids, the reason why you're paying $200 more for your shiny PS3 system is so that your IN-GAME TELEVISIONS can run video in HIGH-DEFINITION!!

[thecrazyd]

Scaling back texture resolution isn't hard, so I don't see why devs wouldn't just start with a high res set and then downgrade for the PS3.
Because creating higher res textures to begin with is harder to do, and, either way, it is more work for what I am sure would be a barely noticable difference. I am sure even grade A fanboys couldn't tell the difference.

[Siraris]

ROFL- do you know why? BLU-RAY STORAGE SPACE!! Yes, kids, the reason why you're paying $200 more for your shiny PS3 system is so that your IN-GAME TELEVISIONS can run video in HIGH-DEFINITION!!

I'm still waiting for a response to my post.

[dimsumx]

I'm just going to bring it up before the fanboys do:

(Denial) But it's still not confirmed by UbiSoft.
(Justification) One site doesn't make it official.
(Outrage) It's still a fucking rumor.
(Unsupported statement) Even if this was for Xbox, Sony will get this way before the Xbox 360 does.



The funny thing is that this is not news at all. First of all, look at the article, it's someone verbalizing a video from E3. There is no mention of where this preview was given, what it was running on, nothing. Secondly, Ubisofts website still only says PS3, and there has been no official statement from any company at all that it's coming out on anything other than PS3.
...
Can someone PLEASE tell me where it says that Assassins Creed is coming out on 360? I have yet to see anything more than some site posting an extremely unsubstantial preview that could be gleaned from any video released since E3.
...
I'm glad that a CVG article says that, but I don't see how the preview that they posted, or what you quoted, makes Assassins Creed a 360 title.
...
(etc)



Did I call that or what? :D

[Reanimated]

Because creating higher res textures to begin with is harder to do, and, either way, it is more work for what I am sure would be a barely noticable difference. I am sure even grade A fanboys couldn't tell the difference.



How the hell is creating a higher resolution texture harder work? I don't think you understand the process, dude. The level of detail being worked into textures today is not going to rise or fall based on a resolution bump. Textures are generally always created at high detail and then scaled back / compressed anyway. Especially these days.

[Reanimated]

Did I call that or what? :D



You called it, but they're really predictable. ;)

[Zanzibar]

I'm still waiting for a response to my post.

Fair enough. Yes, texture data can be stored in main RAM on the PS3, so in essence, there doesn't have to be the kind of limitation that we're talking about. But that is a clumsy process, because on a PER-FRAME BASIS, you're talking about loading up the video RAM TWICE PER FRAME. I bet any game that does this won't come anywhere near 60fps.

Besides, you wrote this:
The 360 has 512 megs of shared RAM for graphics and everything else. If developers load 400 megs of textures into RAM, they only have 100 megs for all the other game code, physics, AI, etc.

So yes, 360 could have more than 256 megs of textures in RAM at one time, but that could also mean that everything else in the game will suffer.
Doesn't that ALSO mean that the PS3's game code etc. will 'suffer' if they use the procedure you're describing? Why is the X360 susceptible to this kind of 'suffering' while the PS3 isn't?

[Siraris]

Fair enough. Yes, texture data can be stored in main RAM on the PS3, so in essence, there doesn't have to be the kind of limitation that you're talking about. But that is a clumsy process, because on a PER-FRAME BASIS, you're talking about loading up the video RAM TWICE PER FRAME. I bet any game that does this won't come anywhere near 60fps.

Besides, you wrote this:

Doesn't that ALSO mean that the PS3's game code etc. will 'suffer' if they use the procedure you're describing? Why is the X360 susceptible to this kind of 'suffering' while the PS3 isn't?

The PS3 will suffer as well. While the RSX will have 48 GB/s of bandwith to read textures from main RAM, the Cell will be limited in the bandwith it can use to read from main RAM.

As I said, both systems have upsides and downsides.

[Achilles]

Fair enough. Yes, texture data can be stored in main RAM on the PS3, so in essence, there doesn't have to be the kind of limitation that we're talking about. But that is a clumsy process, because on a PER-FRAME BASIS, you're talking about loading up the video RAM TWICE PER FRAME. I bet any game that does this won't come anywhere near 60fps.Not to mention that the main RAM on the PS3 is slower than the VRAM, where all RAM on the 360 is as fast as the PS3's VRAM. (is VRAM the right term? I'm talking about the fast RAM on their video card.) So the way the 360 is doing it works better both from a versatility standpoint, and from a speed standpoint.

[Zanzibar]

Not to mention that the main RAM on the PS3 is slower than the VRAM, where all RAM on the 360 is as fast as the PS3's VRAM. (is VRAM the right term? I'm talking about the fast RAM on their video card.) So the way the 360 is doing it works better both from a versatility standpoint, and from a speed standpoint.

Yes, VRAM is the correct term. And yes, the 360's architecture lets the developers configure it whichever way works best for their particular game.

[Jack B]

On the higher res textures - I'm just making an assumption based on the fact that Starbreeze studios recently said in an interview that the 360 version of The Darkness will have higher resolution textures because they have more memory to work with on the 360. I just assume this will be the case with all games, since the 360 has the UMA that allows devs to allocate more memory to sharper visuals.

It was Epic, who convinced Microsoft to go with 512kb ram instead of 256kb. They showed what Gears of War would look like with 512kb and 256kb. It was a tough decision, but Microsoft bit the bullet an added the extra SDDR3 (probably getting my acronym wrong..) ram chips, because it looked a hell of a lot better with the 512kb textures...

In fact, I believe it was those very Ram chips that were ultimately the cause for most of the production delay at launch. They are very very fast ram.

I read about this in the "Xbox 360 Uncloaked" Book.

[Reanimated]

It was Epic, who convinced Microsoft to go with 512Mb ram instead of 256Mb. They showed what Gears of War would look like with 512Mb and 256Mb. It was a tough decision, but Microsoft bit the bullet an added the extra SDDR3 (probably getting my acronym wrong..) ram chips, because it looked a hell of a lot better with the 512Mb textures...

In fact, I believe it was those very Ram chips that were ultimately the cause for most of the production delay at launch. They are very very fast ram.

I read about this in the "Xbox 360 Uncloaked" Book.




Yeah, I read that. Some nice tidbits in there, but mostly the book was a rehash of the first book.

[Siraris]

Not to mention that the main RAM on the PS3 is slower than the VRAM, where all RAM on the 360 is as fast as the PS3's VRAM. (is VRAM the right term? I'm talking about the fast RAM on their video card.) So the way the 360 is doing it works better both from a versatility standpoint, and from a speed standpoint.

Although the bandwith of the 360 is 3.5 times broader than the original X-Box, rendering in 720p requires 3 times broader memory bandwith. This means that you only get .5 times the headroom which is insuffcient for multiple texture lookups. Since textures are stored in the shared 512 megs of RAM, texture lookups consume the shared memory bandwith. If you use normal mapping or shadow mapping, you're doing many texture lookups.

Hell, I've heard MS isn't even requiring the 2X AA anymore because it lowers the performance so much.

[torrefaction]

It was Epic, who convinced Microsoft to go with 512kb ram instead of 256kb. They showed what Gears of War would look like with 512kb and 256kb. It was a tough decision, but Microsoft bit the bullet an added the extra SDDR3 (probably getting my acronym wrong..) ram chips, because it looked a hell of a lot better with the 512kb textures...

In fact, I believe it was those very Ram chips that were ultimately the cause for most of the production delay at launch. They are very very fast ram.

I read about this in the "Xbox 360 Uncloaked" Book.

But of course, everyone that's arguing here knows better than CliffyB and Mark Rein.

Heh.

[dimsumx]

Hell, I've heard MS isn't even requiring the 2X AA anymore because it lowers the performance so much.

And where did you pull this one out of??

[Achilles]

Although the bandwith of the 360 is 3.5 times broader than the original X-Box, rendering in 720p requires 3 times broader memory bandwith. This means that you only get .5 times the headroom which is insuffcient for multiple texture lookups. Since textures are stored in the shared 512 megs of RAM, texture lookups consume the shared memory bandwith. If you use normal mapping or shadow mapping, you're doing many texture lookups.

Hell, I've heard MS isn't even requiring the 2X AA anymore because it lowers the performance so much.And that's with the 10MB of RAM embedded right on the CPU, the PS3 doesn't have that, so it'll have much worse problems. Really, 2X AA shouldn't be required though. If the developer wants to make a jaggy game the platform owner shouldn't kick them off the system.

[Zanzibar]

Although the bandwith of the 360 is 3.5 times broader than the original X-Box, rendering in 720p requires 3 times broader memory bandwith. This means that you only get .5 times the headroom which is insuffcient for multiple texture lookups. Since textures are stored in the shared 512 megs of RAM, texture lookups consume the shared memory bandwith. If you use normal mapping or shadow mapping, you're doing many texture lookups.

Hell, I've heard MS isn't even requiring the 2X AA anymore because it lowers the performance so much.

Where ARE you getting this? Are you talking about memory I/O, pipeline to the GPU, or what? The X360 has texture preprocessing which allows multiple textures with a single pass (normal mapping etc), so I'm not sure what you're talking about by insinuating that the X360 simply CANNOT do multipass texturing due to bandwidth limitations. Do you have anything to back this up with, or are you just trying to look like an expert?

[Reanimated]

And where did you pull this one out of??


Same place he gets everything else?

http://www.tcp.com/~sdickens/photos/when-you're-bent-over-everyone-has-a-camera.jpg

[Zanzibar]

Woot! Threads Killed +1 !!

[Siraris]

Where ARE you getting this? Are you talking about memory I/O, pipeline to the GPU, or what? The X360 has texture preprocessing which allows multiple textures with a single pass (normal mapping etc), so I'm not sure what you're talking about by insinuating that the X360 simply CANNOT do multipass texturing due to bandwidth limitations. Do you have anything to back this up with, or are you just trying to look like an expert?

Zenji Nishikawa wrote an article on sub-HD rendering.
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20060426/3dhd.htm

And to translate a bit:

* The RAM bandwidth of Xbox 360 GPU is almost equal to RADEON X1600 XT and shared with CPU by UMA.
* Without the eDRAM pixel processor doing 4xMSAA, the fillrate of the GPU core itself is 4 billion texel/sec and almost equal to GeForce 7600 GT.
* While the Xbox 360 has a 3.5 times broader bandwidth than the original Xbox, 720p pixels require a 3 times broader memory bandwidth. It leaves only 0.5 times headroom which is insufficient for multiple texture lookups by complex shaders.
* eDRAM is implemented to mitigate the impact of the low memory bandwidth. But FP10 + 2xMSAA requires Predicated Tiling.
* Tile rendering has many performance demerits.
o In games with many chracters like N3 the cost of overlapped geometry grows large unless LOD is implemented.
o Lens effect, refraction, HDR effects such as bloom and glare, and other frame buffer filtering cause overlapped drawing near tile boundaries.
o Objects that cross boundaries can't use the cache efficiently.
o CPU L2 cache locking is practically unusable.
* Since textures are stored in the shared 512MB RAM, regardless of the eDRAM size or use of tile rendering, texture lookup consumes the shared memory bandwidth. Normal mapping and shadow mapping require many texture lookups.
* So the last resort is to use Display Controller to upscale the image without using tile rendering, for example rendering FP10-32bit / 960*540 / 2xMSAA / 32bit Z (8MB).


One of the anonymous developers from the article said: Even 2xMSAA is not required by Microsoft anymore.

Oh and don't forget:

The logic and embedded DRAM on the daughter die is what allows the Xbox 360 GPU to essentially offer "free" anti-aliasing, which Microsoft enforces through requiring developers to support a minimum of 2X AA in all Xbox 360 titles. Although we were originally told back at E3 that all Xbox 360 titles would support 4X AA, it seems that the statement has since been revised to 2X or 4X AA. We're not certain why the change was made, as 2X and 4X are both effectively "free" on the GPU, but there may be something we're missing.

ATI revealed this afternoon that every single Xbox 360 game will be required to run at a minimum of 720p resolution with 4x Anti-Aliasing.

Speaking at a press conference in London, ATI technology specialist Rene Froeleke told journalists that Microsoft had specified that games must run at the 1280x720 resolution at 4xAA with no slowdown. Every single game will be supported at this graphical specification, which we think is great news for gamers playing on big-screen TVs.

Because of the embedded DRAM architecture of Xbox 360, the AA was described as 'Absolutely free'.

But in the end, the only important thing is that SONY LIES

[EvoG]

Because creating higher res textures to begin with is harder to do, and, either way, it is more work for what I am sure would be a barely noticable difference. I am sure even grade A fanboys couldn't tell the difference.

How the hell is creating a higher resolution texture harder work? I don't think you understand the process, dude. The level of detail being worked into textures today is not going to rise or fall based on a resolution bump. Textures are generally always created at high detail and then scaled back / compressed anyway. Especially these days.


Just my two cents on the whole texture resolution:

Reanimated is correct. All of our source textures are created at a much higher resolution(usually 4096x). They are then down-sampled as needed, and if ever we needed to sample another resolution, we always have the high quality source. I'd be surprised to hear of any developers today not working this way.

On another very early tangent, whats this I hear about a next-gen Jak?! I was terribly disappointed that Naughty Dog went the route they're going with this no-name jungle romp, that a new Jak would be tremendous news indeed, even if merely hinted at.

Cheers

[Zanzibar]

Fair enough, I won't quibble, but what's not said is whether the bus speed is PER CORE. The translation says it has a 'private' bus, but the article doesn't reference the multithreaded nature of the X360s multiple cores. If EACH core has a bus speed of 3.5 times the original Xbox had, then as soon as you start multithreading your game code, you gain quite a bit of overhead. If one CPU starts handling the shaders while the other CPU contains the game code/physics, the pipeline slowdown you're talking about goes away.

[Khash]

On another very early tangent, whats this I hear about a next-gen Jak?! I was terribly disappointed that Naughty Dog went the route they're going with this no-name jungle romp, that a new Jak would be tremendous news indeed, even if merely hinted at.

Cheers
Jak is Naughty Dogs flagship series. I would be very surprised if they didn't make another Jak game.

[Zanzibar]

Here's something else about X360 throughput, from this article (http://www.beyond3d.com/articles/xenos/)at beyond3d:
The one key area of bandwidth, that has caused a fair quantity of controversy in its inclusion of specifications, is that of bandwidth available from the ROPS to the eDRAM, which stands at 256GB/s. The eDRAM is always going to be the primary location for any of the bandwidth intensive frame buffer operations and so it is specifically designed to remove the frame buffer memory bandwidth bottleneck - additionally, Z and colour access patterns tend not to be particularly optimal for traditional DRAM controllers where they are frequent read/write penalties, so by placing all of these operations in the eDRAM daughter die, aside from the system calls, this leaves the system memory bus free for texture and vertex data fetches which are both read only and are therefore highly efficient.

[EvoG]

Jak is Naughty Dogs flagship series. I would be very surprised if they didn't make another Jak game.

No of course, as was then my incredulity that ND decided to develop and show No-Name-Jungle-Romp at E3 rather than floor us with next-gen Jak and Daxter: The Lost Frontier(I googled and got that from IGN, fwiw). I just hope that specifically there was something more concrete. :D

[Magnanimous Gnome]

Oh, and From also developed both Otogi games for the Xbox and they are fine examples of the genre. Or do you disagree because they are exclusive to the Xbox?


Oh, thanks for mentioning the Otogi games - that was a great reminder for me!



*adds Otogi 1 and 2 to list of future "360" purchases*

[Kamalot]

There will only be very minor cosmetic differences, such as the PS3 will have better quality video for the in-game TVs and on the Xbox 360 we have a bit more room for textures in memory.Well, glad to know that when I watch TV inside a video game that the video will look nicer on the PS3. Truthfully, I don't play video games so I can watch a virtual TV. I'll take the nicer textures instead please.

[Siraris]

Fair enough, I won't quibble, but what's not said is whether the bus speed is PER CORE. The translation says it has a 'private' bus, but the article doesn't reference the multithreaded nature of the X360s multiple cores. If EACH core has a bus speed of 3.5 times the original Xbox had, then as soon as you start multithreading your game code, you gain quite a bit of overhead. If one CPU starts handling the shaders while the other CPU contains the game code/physics, the pipeline slowdown you're talking about goes away.

It could also be that the developers quoted in this article are doing things differently than others. I'm sure US developers have spent a lot more time with the 360 than Japanese developers, and so they may not be the best source. The fact is, I am not making shit up just to sound like an expert. I still have a lot to learn, but this stuff is FUN. I just wish there were more readily available sources.

The thing I'd be interested is hearing how developers are doing it. There's so much secrecy in the industry, but it would be really cool to know exactly what is going on behind the scenes. For example; how exactly are hi-def games being handled on 360 right now? Are they rendering at 480p and then upscaling to 720p? What combinations of res and AA are they using. This makes me wonder if PS3 achieving 1080p will be the game being rendered in 720p and then upscaled by Cell to 1080p.

I don't mind you questioning what I have to say, I'm more than happy to post an explanation.

And people like dimsumx and Reanimated just end up looking like pathetic fanboys.

[Mr.Condescension]

I’m glad that there’s finally some proof that it’s coming to the 360 for literal folks like Mr. Condescension. I’ll be picking it up on the 360. There’s the less RAM problem with the PS3, but as far as gameplay goes, I’d rather be able to feel when I brush against someone with the vibration instead of try to figure it out from the animations. They could also use it for grip when you're climbing around like SotC did.

If you consider this non-official site repeating images and description of a PS3 game proof, fine. You can have it. I prefer actual journalism. Ubisoft has not announced anything of the sort (go ahead and check their website and forums) and you can be damn sure that ubisoft won't break the news to computerandvideogames.com first. I don't care if it's an exclusive, timed exclusive, or simultaneous release. That Sony haters get so riled up about a completely unsubstantiated internet rumor from a non-official site is comedy without peer.

If I am not mistaken, the 360 has more ram than can be used for textures than the PS3 does.

You are mistaken. The RSX has nearly equal access to the XDR main RAM as its dedicated video memory. The only reason textures would be larger on the 360 for a multiplatform game is because the developers don't want to take the time to recode their engine to take advantage of the RSX ability to use two smaller RAM pools with bandwidth to each being roughly equal to the entire memory bandwidth of the Xenos in the 360.

[Zanzibar]

It could also be that the developers quoted in this article are doing things differently than others. I'm sure US developers have spent a lot more time with the 360 than Japanese developers, and so they may not be the best source. The fact is, I am not making shit up just to sound like an expert. I still have a lot to learn, but this stuff is FUN. I just wish there were more readily available sources.

The thing I'd be interested is hearing how developers are doing it. There's so much secrecy in the industry, but it would be really cool to know exactly what is going on behind the scenes. For example; how exactly are hi-def games being handled on 360 right now? Are they rendering at 480p and then upscaling to 720p? What combinations of res and AA are they using. This makes me wonder if PS3 achieving 1080p will be the game being rendered in 720p and then upscaled by Cell to 1080p.

Read that article I linked above. Man, that article is a cranial WORKOUT. Granted, that's a 'spec' article from pre-launch based on what they were planning on doing, so I don't know if all of the numbers in there are correct, but damned if that article doesn't take you step by step on Microsoft's plan of action.

[Kamalot]

The RSX has nearly equal access to the XDR main RAM as its dedicated video memory. The only reason textures would be larger on the 360 for a multiplatform game is because the developers don't want to take the time to recode their engine to take advantage of the RSX ability to use two smaller RAM pools with bandwidth to each being roughly equal to the entire memory bandwidth of the Xenos in the 360.That sounds like a bitch. Reminds me of the Sega Saturn, two processors that could do a lot together, if the developer took the time to harness the power of the system. Result? most developers take the easy way out and Saturn games suffer.

[Mr.Condescension]

Unlike the 360, PS3 dev kits have twice as much ram as the final system, so if they use that RAM during development they'll have to cut back as they get closer to ship, as they used to with the Xbox 1.

The RAM is doubled on the PS3 dev kits for debugging purposes, which is perfectly normal in the industry. The 360 dev kits most likely had extra RAM as well.

And that's with the 10MB of RAM embedded right on the CPU, the PS3 doesn't have that, so it'll have much worse problems. Really, 2X AA shouldn't be required though. If the developer wants to make a jaggy game the platform owner shouldn't kick them off the system.

The 10MB of eDRAM is located on the Video card, not the CPU, and the devs have found it's mostly Microsoft's way of getting around the problem of the shared memory bandwidth between the CPU and GPU. Some devs are already finding, though, that in order to use the eDRAM in their pipeline they have to use tiling on their frame renders, which can offer a performance hit in other areas (reason being that a 720p frame render is about 24-30MB, so it can't fit in the eDRAM). The eDRAM is turning out not to be as much of an advantage to developers as it had seemed on paper.

Fair enough. Yes, texture data can be stored in main RAM on the PS3, so in essence, there doesn't have to be the kind of limitation that we're talking about. But that is a clumsy process, because on a PER-FRAME BASIS, you're talking about loading up the video RAM TWICE PER FRAME. I bet any game that does this won't come anywhere near 60fps.

You don't have to load up video ram twice per frame at all. You can split your frame renders and texture lookups between the two RAM pools, which will only have the negative effect of borrowing main memory bandwidth from the cell (just like the 360 does for every graphics procedure...xenos using the same bandwidth as the xenon). You can reportedly get greater graphics bandwidth overall in the PS3 then the 360 is capable of by employing both RAM pools in your graphics pipeline.

Fair enough, I won't quibble, but what's not said is whether the bus speed is PER CORE.

It's shared. The PS3's SPEs have a tiny amount of local memory to work in, but the 360s cores all share one memory footprint, and that bandwidth is on the same bus as the GPU. Everything is shared in the 360. It's a hippy colony.

[Flatpicker]

I would get this for the 360.
I wouldn't buy a ps3 for it.
It's not worth that much to me.

[fitbabits]

Oh, thanks for mentioning the Otogi games - that was a great reminder for me!



*adds Otogi 1 and 2 to list of future "360" purchases*
Psst... None of them are on the BC list, so the only way you can play them is on the Xbox.

[Zanzibar]

You don't have to load up video ram twice per frame at all. You can split your z-buffer and texture lookups between the two RAM pools, which will only have the effect of borrowing main memory bandwidth from the cell (just like the 360 does for every graphics procedure...xenos using the same bandwidth as the xenon). You can reportedly get greater graphics bandwidth overall in the PS3 then the 360 is capable of by employing both RAM pools in your graphics pipeline.

I don't think that's true. The X360 has separate pipelines between the UMA, GPU, and CPUs. This image is from the beyond3d article about the Xenos GPU. It doesn't show the separate bandwidth speeds between the CPU and the unified memory, but I know for certain that the CPU can directly access the memory without having to go through the GPU.

EDIT: My bad, you are correct, the CPU does indeed rely on Xenos for memory transfers.

[Mr.Condescension]

I don't think that's true. The X360 has separate pipelines between the UMA, GPU, and CPUs. This image is from the beyond3d article about the Xenos GPU. It doesn't show the separate bandwidth speeds between the CPU and the unified memory, but I know for certain that the CPU can directly access the memory without having to go through the GPU.

http://www.beyond3d.com/articles/xenos/images/bandwidths.gif

Your image shows the GPU (labeled parent and daughter) with access to the RAM and the CPU not having access to the RAM, which would mean that the CPU requests are sent to the RAM through the GPU's bandwidth. That doesn't prove your point whatsoever. The diagram looks more like a rendering pipeline than a schematic. The thing that your image doesn't show is that the 22.4GB/s bandwidth is the bandwidth of the bus that the shared memory is on. It has to use that bandwidth both for CPU and GPU requests. The PS3 on the other hand is different. It has 2 busses with two sets of RAM that the GPU has access to.

[Zanzibar]

Your image shows the GPU (labeled parent and daughter) with access to the RAM and the CPU not having access to the RAM, which would mean that the CPU requests are sent to the RAM through the GPU's bandwidth. That doesn't prove your point whatsoever. The diagram looks more like a rendering pipeline than a schematic. The thing that your image doesn't show is that the 22.4GB/s bandwidth is the bandwidth of the bus that the shared memory is on. It has to use that bandwidth both for CPU and GPU requests. The PS3 on the other hand is different. It has 2 busses with two sets of RAM that the GPU has access to.

Yes, I read the article more carefully, you are correct. The article does indeed say that the CPU relies on the Xenos GPU for all memory transfers. I had incorrectly guessed that since the article was GPU-specific, that the diagram was only referencing the throughput of the GPU, and was omitting an additional pipeline between the CPU and UMA - but that is incorrect.

[Siraris]

Yes, I read the article more carefully, you are correct. The article does indeed say that the CPU relies on the Xenos GPU for all memory transfers. I had incorrectly guessed that since the article was GPU-specific, that the diagram was only referencing the throughput of the GPU, and was omitting an additional pipeline between the CPU and UMA - but that is incorrect.

This was my original point. The CPU and the GPU share the same bus, so you're essentially cutting the bus in half.

The craziest thing is, there are predictions that the next incarnation of graphics cards are going to have bus speeds of 150 GB/s. INSANE!

[dimsumx]

And people like dimsumx and Reanimated just end up looking like pathetic fanboys.

What's really pathetic is that I was able to predict exactly what people like you were going to say. You fell right into it! Am I surprised you'd be the most vocal about it? Nah. :)

The fact is, this news was from one of the more reliable sources out there for Xbox news (considering they are the OFFICIAL publication). Yet, even at that, you won't take it for what it is, and just keep trying to discredit their information as if you know internally what is going on with Ubisoft. Since you obviously have more insight that journalists that are officially working with Microsoft to send their items to print...tell me, why aren't you writing your own magazine if this was the case?

[Paranoia]

It seems Sony fanboys are bothered about AC coming to MS console. Even if its just a rumor its enough to start the fire, and this thread shows!

Insecurity at its best.

[dragntyr]

For all we know this game will suck, just like all the other overly hyped games. So right now it doesn't really matter what console it lands on. If in fact it doesn't totally blow, then and only then should we argue if its an exclusive or not.

[alejandro79]

For all we know this game will suck, just like all the other overly hyped games. So right now it doesn't really matter what console it lands on. If in fact it doesn't totally blow, then and only then should we argue if its an exclusive or not.


do you know what are you talking about? :(

[Achilles]

The RAM is doubled on the PS3 dev kits for debugging purposes, which is perfectly normal in the industry. The 360 dev kits most likely had extra RAM as well.

The 10MB of eDRAM is located on the Video card, not the CPU, and the devs have found it's mostly Microsoft's way of getting around the problem of the shared memory bandwidth between the CPU and GPU. Some devs are already finding, though, that in order to use the eDRAM in their pipeline they have to use tiling on their frame renders, which can offer a performance hit in other areas (reason being that a 720p frame render is about 24-30MB, so it can't fit in the eDRAM). The eDRAM is turning out not to be as much of an advantage to developers as it had seemed on paper.To the first comment; I know, I posted this as well after the comment you quoted. You're wrong about the 360 dev kits though unless you're talking about the G5 kits from E3-05.

To the second comment; you’re right that it’s the GPU, not the CPU. I don't know how much it helps, I do know they can't do 4x for free with it, which was its intention, but I have heard they can pretty much do 2x for free with it.

[Reanimated]

It seems Sony fanboys are bothered about AC coming to MS console. Even if its just a rumor its enough to start the fire, and this thread shows!

Insecurity at its best.




Cut them some slack. It's the only decent looking game they have to look forward to.

[Kamalot]

For all we know this game will suck, just like all the other overly hyped games. So right now it doesn't really matter what console it lands on. If in fact it doesn't totally blow, then and only then should we argue if its an exclusive or not.
That sounds like a 'sour grapes (http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/sour.html)' argument.

[dragntyr]

do you know what are you talking about? :(

What a wonderful question, that completely misses the point. To answer your question, yes I know what I'm talking about just as much as anyone else here. I've read all the same previews and seen all the same screenshots that probably everyone else here has, but can you or anyone else for that matter honestly say with absolute certainty (in other words see into the future) that this game will be worth all the hype. Don't get me wrong I hope its good too, but why bitch and moan about something that may or may not be any good.

[dragntyr]

Oops I tried editing the above comment and accidentally posted twice, so please ignore this comment.

[Paranoia]

For all we know this game will suck, just like all the other overly hyped games. So right now it doesn't really matter what console it lands on. If in fact it doesn't totally blow, then and only then should we argue if its an exclusive or not.

It could end up being another Beyond Good & Evil, critically acclaimed game yet sold poorly.

[needoptic]

Heh, calling that a "preview" is a joke. It's more of a ... "Hey, there's this game called this and that! Yay!"

[Xerxes]

It could end up being another Beyond Good & Evil, critically acclaimed game yet sold poorly.


Ok this Ubi. They've been on a run unlike alot of other publishers. They seem to do what Lucasarts think they do. Make kick ass games on time. We know that's a lie in LucasArts case, but ubi hasn't filed up in some time. I'm refering to the games and franchise that they really back, such as this one. Some of them don't get the royal marketing, and others do. This will be right along Persia and Cell.

[fitbabits]

One more post and this thread officially enters the realms of infamy!

[Kamalot]

Infamy!

"He's not just famous, he's IN-famous"

[absolut taco]

One more post and this thread officially enters the realms of infamy!
Infamy!!!!!! Here we come!

[Kelegacy]

What's really pathetic is that I was able to predict exactly what people like you were going to say. You fell right into it! Am I surprised you'd be the most vocal about it? Nah. :)

In all fairness, the Xbox boys were acting the same way when it was announced to be a PS3 only title. There is irony, and hypocrisy, enough to go around for both sides.

[greenapple]

What's really pathetic is that I was able to predict exactly what people like you were going to say. You fell right into it! Am I surprised you'd be the most vocal about it? Nah. :)

Eh? So you yourself spot the OBVIOUS weakness with this article, point it out, then claim dibs on it and say anyone who goes near it is pathetic? Pointing out the obvious doesn't make you prophetic.

That's like pointing at a Pinto, saying it has a crappy fuel tank, and then calling out anyone who says that the Pinto can blow up on your ass and saying they're pathetic.

Note that no one is saying it ISN'T going to come out for the 360. Hell, given UBI's track record, it's about 95% certain. But that doesn't make this article an "official" announcement. Nor does it turn that 95% to even 96%. The fact is the article does not point out anything exclusive or even juicy, i.e. a friend of a friend told me it's so.

[dimsumx]

That's like pointing at a Pinto, saying it has a crappy fuel tank, and then calling out anyone who says that the Pinto can blow up on your ass and saying they're pathetic.



Actually, it'd be more like Pinto owners coming across a Ford brochure telling their customers that the Pintos will come with a new gas tank similar to the one that Toyota uses, from the same 3rd party part manufacturer that Toyota gets it from. Toyota owners, for some reason want to keep all their parts to themselves and in general just likes to knock Ford, make every effort to discredit the brochure because the 3rd party manufacturer didn't release any statements regarding it, even though the brochure is an official publication associated with Ford. So they start whining and complaining how it's not really official and then tangents off on how the engine of the Pinto isn't quite as fuel efficient as the Corolla's. ;)

[Manzy]

Actually, it'd be more like Pinto owners coming across a Ford brochure telling their customers that the Pintos will come with a new gas tank similar to the one that Toyota uses, from the same 3rd party part manufacturer that Toyota gets it from. Toyota owners, for some reason want to keep all their parts to themselves and in general just likes to knock Ford, make every effort to discredit the brochure because the 3rd party manufacturer didn't release any statements regarding it, even though the brochure is an official publication associated with Ford. So they start whining and complaining how it's not really official and then tangents off on how the engine of the Pinto isn't quite as fuel efficient as the Corolla's. ;)


And then they get even more flustered when they realized they haven't decided where they are going to be having lunch that evening. BUT WHO HAS LUNCH IN THE EVENING?!!?

[greenapple]

Actually, it'd be more like Pinto owners coming across a Ford brochure

Except for the fact that the Ford brochure turns not to be from Ford, but from Car and Driver magazine instead and is all photos of the bottom of a Toyota that Car and Driver took at the last auto show.

The point is, this "preview" doesn't confirm anything. As I said, Creed will, in all likelihood, come out for the 360. But this article doesn't prove that and calling anyone who points that out "pathetic", is well... pathethic.

Edit: according to a poster on the cvg article site who has claimed to have seen the actually Official 360 Magazine article, the piece ended with this:

"It's not confirmed for Xbox 360 yet but we're keeping our fingers crossed, especially when it looks this good."

So even your "official" source may have conceded that this is speculation. How is pointing that out "pathetic"?

[Magnanimous Gnome]

I apologize for my rant. I hate getting drawn into all this platform warring, but it looks like I just fell prey to the very thing I try to avoid. God damn each and every last one of you

Even me?? :(



I joined a physical writer's group last month and right now I'm brainstorming something that fits perfectly with my personality but I've never attempted: erotica. I'm trying something different, and though it's not going to be gratuitous, the subject matter and conflict are very sexual.


I only ask that you change my name in the telling. I'd like to save what little dignity I have left. :o


Don't get your hemp panties in a bunch - Evolution is not a "myth", it's a theory. Global Warming is not a theory, it's a phenominon.


As far as I know, the Earth still revolves around the sun too. ;) Funny how no one else noticed that...

[Magnanimous Gnome]

Psst... None of them are on the BC list, so the only way you can play them is on the Xbox.

I know, I'm just hoping that the list gets updated eventually. I'm glad you didn't pick up anything else from my post though. :D