Natural Selection: Source in Progress

[Varsity]

The original plan was to build Natural Selection 2 and sell it at retail. Now, after subsisting for several years while trying to make the jump from mod to next-gen, Charlie "Flayra" Cleveland's Unknown Worlds team have changed tack. NS2 has been scaled back to become NS: Source (http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/), and will be built on Source's next-gen tech (which we ought to be seeing some of this week) for sale on Steam.

NS:S will be released through Steam and will cost money ($19.95?) and will be a standalone game. From the beginning, the idea has been to create Natural Selection, give it away and then sell the sequel. Back then, I thought the sequel would be much bigger and for retail, but a lot has changed in the past almost five years since starting work on NS. Now the sequel will have a smaller scope and will be sold online, but we will retain more control, will need less money up-front and will get paid more for every copy sold. It's not what I was expecting, but it's definitely no worse!
More will be announced when (not if) UW's finances stabilise.

Right now it seems likely that NS Source will be a cross between straight port and NS2, as opposed to one or the other.

Thank god, progress at last!

[Mozgus]

God dammit. Another free mod gone. I suck too hardcore at NS to actually pay cash to play the damn thing. NS always seemed like every other player was given an insta-gib weapon, but I was stuck with attacks that didn't harm anything. I think I've gotten about 4 actual kills in that game...ever.

[morose]

Good news as I was beginning to think NS2 was never going to show up in any form. I sucked at NS, but always had a lot of fun with it anyway. :)

[Heretic Machine]

Meh... I'm officially turned off of buying these stand-alone former mods after my experiences with The Ship. Ya, it is fixed now, but it should of been fixed when I bought it. Valve should take a clue from Microsoft and start implimenting some kind of Q&A standard for the products they put up on Steam. If it can be done with XBLA, it should be done on Steam.

[Kefkataran]

So off-topic: Seriously, though, me and a buddy played some TFC last night. Holy shit that's still fun. Just as awesome as I remember in high school. Anyone else want to join me in some TFC madness?

[Gunblade]

I guess it is finally time for me to sign-up no way can I hold inside my opinion on this.

I think it is complete BS that this mod is going for money. With mods like Nuclear Dawn, Battlegrounds, Pilotable Strider, Empires, Black Mesa, Minerva, Mistake of Pythagoras etc. Just ooozing with quality and content etc. Why does this mod have to be 20 dollars? I could understand counter-strike and Day of Defeat because they had become franchises long ago.

I think the only thing pushing them is greed. It's just not the same when you start paying, and valve isn't the developer.

It better become more than a mod to get my 20 dollars, it better be fricken grandeous.

[Kefkataran]

Welcome to the site, Gunblade. Hope you stick around and post in some other threads as well. :)

[Mozgus]

I guess it is finally time for me to sign-up no way can I hold inside my opinion on this.

I think it is complete BS that this mod is going for money. With mods like Nuclear Dawn, Battlegrounds, Pilotable Strider, Empires, Black Mesa, Minerva, Mistake of Pythagoras etc. Just ooozing with quality and content etc. Why does this mod have to be 20 dollars? I could understand counter-strike and Day of Defeat because they had become franchises long ago.

I think the only thing pushing them is greed. It's just not the same when you start paying, and valve isn't the developer.

It better become more than a mod to get my 20 dollars, it better be fricken grandeous.
On the other hand, NS was the most popular unlicensed HL1 modification, according to the steam charts. But I'm not happy either.

So off-topic: Seriously, though, me and a buddy played some TFC last night. Holy shit that's still fun. Just as awesome as I remember in high school. Anyone else want to join me in some TFC madness?
I'm ready, I'm ready.

[Kagger]

Welcome to the site, Gunblade. Hope you stick around and post in some other threads as well. :)

If you are willing to tolerate someone who has never played before (seriously), I'm game.

[digitalErich]

Bah, now that they've gone retail, they'll have to compete with Savage 2 for my RTS/FPS hybrid gaming and I don't think it's a battle NS can win.

[Kefkataran]

I'm ready, I'm ready.

If you are willing to tolerate someone who has never played before (seriously), I'm game.

Kagger, I assume you meant that for my TFC comment?

Both of you add 'KefkaTaran' to your friends list. I'm gonna start a thread later this week to work out a time this weekend where EvAv folk can all meet up and do some classic TFCing. It's amazing how well this game holds up.

[Lon Lon Rabbit]

Kagger, I assume you meant that for my TFC comment?

Both of you add 'KefkaTaran' to your friends list. I'm gonna start a thread later this week to work out a time this weekend where EvAv folk can all meet up and do some classic TFCing. It's amazing how well this game holds up.

Count me in, steam name Lon Lon Rabbit.

TFC got me into online gaming all those years ago.

Also, I never got into the original NS so haven't been following the news around it much, but didn't UW recently release some other pay to play game or something in an effort to fund a new NS? Yet now NS is going retail anyway?

Again, I haven't been following it properly and am probably a bit muddled about that, so someone please tell me what the hell I'm talking about.

[Beelzebud]

This is the only thing I don't like about Steam. They have totally KILLED the free mod community.

Why work on a free mod, when you can work on one to charge money for? No one will.

I won't be buying this. NS was fine as long as it was free. Now they want to charge money for a game they ripped off? Play Gloom2 for Quake 2 and tell me NS isn't a complete rip off of that game...

[Heretic Machine]

Count me in, steam name Lon Lon Rabbit.

TFC got me into online gaming all those years ago.

Also, I never got into the original NS so haven't been following the news around it much, but didn't UW recently release some other pay to play game or something in an effort to fund a new NS? Yet now NS is going retail anyway?

Again, I haven't been following it properly and am probably a bit muddled about that, so someone please tell me what the hell I'm talking about.

Yup, they released some Sudoku game that people payed for on the promise of them releasing a Source port of NS.

Play Gloom2 for Quake 2 and tell me NS isn't a complete rip off of that game...

I hope they get sued.

[Kefkataran]

Me too, Lonely Rabbit! TFC was the FIRST game I played online.

[GoblinToe]

An incredible mod. Now ruined by steam.

[michaelwhite]

I began to severely lose interest in this mod after beta 2. Flayra was more concerned with balancing for small clan matches than the general public, subsequently leeching the fun from the initial releases. I will not be purchasing a source upgrade.

P.S. Gloom > NS

P.P.S I played TFC again last night and had a ball, who needs NS?

[Opty]

Remember, to sell a mod they have to buy the full Steam license so it's not a mod anymore but a standalone game. I hope you people complaining about "paying for mods" realize that. But even so, I agree that this direction of mods turned into games is at the very least disturbing and I hope the mod community doesn't dry up.

[Mozgus]

Remember, to sell a mod they have to buy the full Steam license so it's not a mod anymore but a standalone game. I hope you people complaining about "paying for mods" realize that.
It will become a "full" game when it comes with a tutorial mode, and single player story mode. But that isn't ganna happen. It's going to only remain as impressive as a free mod can be, except it wont be free.

[thecrazyd]

So off-topic: Seriously, though, me and a buddy played some TFC last night. Holy shit that's still fun. Just as awesome as I remember in high school. Anyone else want to join me in some TFC madness?
Yes. Yes, I do.

On topic, it has been a long time since I have seen so much idiotic whining. If any mod turned full release deserves your money, this one does. And those bitching about paying for a mod, it is not. There is a fine line between a mod and a full release that uses an existing engine, and NS is well on the side of full release.

[Lon Lon Rabbit]

Me too, Lonely Rabbit! TFC was the FIRST game I played online.

Just finished downloading it again, when are you next playing?

I'm very excited all of a sudden, I think I probably spent as much time on TFC back in the day as I have on some of my first MMOs.

[Ajguy]

I'm just surprised that in the same announcement that states the game will now be $20 he also announces the the scope of the game is being scaled back. One would think that they need a reason to justify our dollars for his game.

And yes, I thought that Sudoku thing was supposed to fund NS:S so that it would remain free. Either I misread that story, or no one bought Sudoku. I played the demo of it and it was a fine sudoku game, but there's way too much free online sudoku to actually pay for it.

All that said, I really enjoyed the original NS (granted I stunk at it). If they do a demo or a free weekend or something ala DOD I'll check it out. But there would have to be substantial differences for me to plop down $20 on it. I can just still play the original, thank you.

[SnappyCrunch]

As I understood it, Charlie Cleveland, the brain behind NS, made NS as a hobby in 2000/2001, and was hoping to parley that into enough interest to make a full-price ($50) retail game of Natural Selection 2. He and other people put a lot of time into NS, and for a while they were scraping by on people's donations.

Natural Selection is now several people's full time jobs, and the gaming landscape has changed greatly since NS 1.0 first came out. There are very few "mods" anymore that aren't "total conversion" mods, and what are considered "mods" these days are almost always of a professional quality. What's more, people have shown through CS:S, DoD:S, The Ship: Source, Red Orchestra, etc. that they're willing to pay a limited price for multiplayer-only professional quality games.

What is the difference between a total conversion modification for a game, and a licensed game built on someone else's engine? The only difference these days is whether the creators charge for it. NS:S will be a full game, albeit multiplayer only, and I predict that it will be well worth my $20.

[thecrazyd]

As I understood it, Charlie Cleveland, the brain behind NS, made NS as a hobby in 2000/2001, and was hoping to parley that into enough interest to make a full-price ($50) retail game of Natural Selection 2. He and other people put a lot of time into NS, and for a while they were scraping by on people's donations.

Natural Selection is now several people's full time jobs, and the gaming landscape has changed greatly since NS 1.0 first came out. There are very few "mods" anymore that aren't "total conversion" mods, and what are considered "mods" these days are almost always of a professional quality. What's more, people have shown through CS:S, DoD:S, The Ship: Source, Red Orchestra, etc. that they're willing to pay a limited price for multiplayer-only professional quality games.

What is the difference between a total conversion modification for a game, and a licensed game built on someone else's engine? The only difference these days is whether the creators charge for it. NS:S will be a full game, albeit multiplayer only, and I predict that it will be well worth my $20.
*cough*fanboy*cough*

[The Bashar]

I had a great time with NS and will be looking forward to this. However, I hope they at least add some more content. But if people remember when DoD:S came out it was only 4 maps and a lot stuff that was in the original mod was removed. Anyone remember the British?

[Heretic Machine]

As I understood it, Charlie Cleveland, the brain behind NS, made NS as a hobby in 2000/2001, and was hoping to parley that into enough interest to make a full-price ($50) retail game of Natural Selection 2. He and other people put a lot of time into NS, and for a while they were scraping by on people's donations.

Well, maybe the fuckers should of gotten a real job then? Maybe they should of gone to a dev house and said, "Check this out. Look what we can do. Gimme a job." Last I checked, proffessional quality modders tend to have a good chance of getting hired into the industry if they want to be.

[archon]

Well, maybe the fuckers should of gotten a real job then? Maybe they should of gone to a dev house and said, "Check this out. Look what we can do. Gimme a job." Last I checked, proffessional quality modders tend to have a good chance of getting hired into the industry if they want to be.

Exactly, these guys are hacks that just stole someone else's idea and now want to charge for it. Next idea, please.

[Liquidize105]

Cleveland was a professional developer who left his studios in 00-01 to make his own game the way he wanted.

[The Iron Weasel]

So off-topic: Seriously, though, me and a buddy played some TFC last night. Holy shit that's still fun. Just as awesome as I remember in high school. Anyone else want to join me in some TFC madness?

I'm down for some TFC!

[Varsity]

And the collective intelligence of gamers goes down one notch further. The only good news is that paying for the game filters out people like you lot.

[Kefkataran]

Just finished downloading it again, when are you next playing?

I'm very excited all of a sudden, I think I probably spent as much time on TFC back in the day as I have on some of my first MMOs.

Me too, easily. I'm gonna throw a thread up later this week.

[gspot]

Meh... I'm officially turned off of buying these stand-alone former mods after my experiences with The Ship. Ya, it is fixed now, but it should of been fixed when I bought it. Valve should take a clue from Microsoft and start implimenting some kind of Q&A standard for the products they put up on Steam. If it can be done with XBLA, it should be done on Steam.

I don't know why people have an attitude about patches. So it wasn't fixed, and now it is. What's the problem? Stand alone former mods are what create new and innovative games from new companies. I guess we could shun all indie devs and just give our money to MS, EA, Sony, and Nintendo...but doesn't that seem a little counterintuitive to innovative gaming?

Seriously, those devs at unknown worlds worked their asses of to make a great game for free that they continually patch, update, and tweak to make the game balanced and eliminate bugs. I have never seen change logs as detailed and meticulous as those of NS. I know I will be getting $20 worth of gaming when I give it to those guys.

[SnappyCrunch]

*cough*fanboy*cough*

Oh, it's on now.

...wait... what? How did you get in here? Shouldn't you go home to your nintendo threads?

[Gunblade]

And the collective intelligence of gamers goes down one notch further. The only good news is that paying for the game filters out people like you lot.

If there ever was a line sir...you just crossed it!

Listen, it's not that hard to take it from other people's view point. You can disagree, but just to flame is totally lame.

Some people think that it's bogus to pay 20$ unless it shows more than mod quality, and the fact that it was free just kinda hurts. It leaves you yelling towards the sky "WHHHYYY!"

While you and others just have no problem paying 20 here, and here, and there. This is three mods now I will have to pay for. Garys, NS, and Red Orchestra. All my friends play them, but too continue playing I have to start shoveling out cash now.

I would much rather save the cash and get Prey or Dead Rising. Rather inconvient.