David Jaffe Burned Out?

[MSUStud911]

Gamespot (http://www.gamespot.com/news/6154141.html) reports that David Jaffe got a bit emo in his blog (http://davidjaffe.typepad.com/jaffes_game_design/) over the weekend.
"Since God of War, I have lost interest in the genre of single-player action/adventure games," Jaffe wrote in a post over the weekend. "In fact, I've really lost interest in making any kind of game that does not fully and only embrace interactivity in the most purest sense. I don't want to tell stories with my games anymore."No word yet on how his super-secret PSP title will make us cry without a story.

[The Continental]

Uh oh, looks like Kratos is going to be wearing black rimmed glasses, have a palmade soaked, stupid haircut, and be largely unemployable outside the confines of an indie record store.

<simpleplan>How could this happen to Kratos!</simpleplan>

[TDiddy]

Does he not realize even in these highly interactive games there still needs to be some kind of story? Besides racing games, what game doesn't have a story? Even MMORPGs have some kind of storyline, especially if you factor in side quests.

[fitbabits]

Maybe he's just burned out and is letting off some steam? Either way, God of War is still an awesome game and I'm looking forward to parts two and three.

[Vandabo]

Perhaps the game will make us cry because it has no story.

[Dr.Acula]

What the -hasn't the guy only made a couple of games? Just cause he gives a lot of press, there's this perception that he's one of the big designers in the industry.

[The Continental]

He has worked on all the Twisted Metal games, not exactly pinnacles of story telling...

[TDiddy]

And the thing is, once you have the IDEA, your fun- as a designer- is really over. If you are working in the single player action-adventure genre, and are fortunate enough to be working with a team that can execute the crap out of what you think is an amazing idea, you don’t get much out of actually seeing your idea executed. You get a little, sure. You get the little tinglies and such. It’s a neat moment to see your idea brought to life. But you already saw the idea, already experienced the amazing moment...but it was in your head months ago. Now it’s just a slog to execute the damn thing so OTHERS- the PLAYERS- can enjoy what you’ve already finished enjoying.

Wow. What a whiny bitch! He is basically saying, "I like cool moments in video games. Sometimes I come up with them. But I don't like working on them so that other people can experience them. But all those fucking PLAYERS want to experience them, too. That totally sucks. Now I have to make for those bastards. I hate them."

[Furious Wang]

ego rising

[Wyrm]

I read it, and while he does get a little whiny, he makes valid points. When you design a game that you want to see played out in front of you, when it actually is, it kind of sucks. You've seen the idea, and while it's neat to see it come to life, you wont ever be able to have the same reaction that a gamer who never even thought about that before will.

This guy, in my book, can say whatever the fuck he wants. God of War is in my top five of all time.

[Mr. Lake]

I wonder how the people who have been working on Halo for over 10 years feel...probably don't want to make another FPS for a long while.

[Dr Quincy]

I wonder how the people who have been working on Halo for over 10 years feel...probably don't want to make another FPS for a long while.

Well they can damn well get off their high horses and acknowledge that the public demands Marathon 4!

[Lord Nerdious]

Nice way to suck the wind out of everyone's sails, bastard. I mean seriously, he made a kickass game which recieved all around critical acclaim, now he is saying he doesn't want to continue working in the genre, despite the fact that he himself stated that it is a trilogy of games.

Look at Silicon Knights, those guys are working on Too Human which has recieved very little good press and they couldn't be more stoked at the opportunity that they have. People like David Jaffe are bad for the industry, just one-trick horses who couldn't be flogged for a few more good ideas. To see your dreams become a reality should be the most fufilling thing of all time, but no, he just wanted to do it to keep it to himself. Fuck you, I hope you go bust.

[thecrazyd]

Well they can damn well get off their high horses and acknowledge that the public demands Marathon 4!
Do they? Maybe a very small segment of the public.

[evilrobot]

What a f-ing drama queen

[Heretic Machine]

...After reading this topic, I have decided that gamers suck, and have no empathic ability. The dude is a dreamer, he likes to dream up ideas. He thought that making games would be a great way to work what he likes to do into his proffession. In his opinion, he was wrong. Now everyone says that he is selfish because he has expressed his disatisfaction for the experience?

BTW: It's his fucking BLOG, he isn't the one that posted it to Gamespot, nor was he the one who submitted it to Evil Avatar. He isn't the one that thinks that his blog is important, you are, appearently.

[Lord Nerdious]

...After reading this topic, I have decided that gamers suck, and have no empathic ability. The dude is a dreamer, he likes to dream up ideas. He thought that making games would be a great way to work what he likes to do into his proffession. In his opinion, he was wrong. Now everyone says that he is selfish because he has expressed his disatisfaction for the experience?

BTW: It's his fucking BLOG, he isn't the one that posted it to Gamespot, nor was he the one who submitted it to Evil Avatar. He isn't the one that thinks that his blog is important, you are, appearently.

I'm not saying he's selfish, just a little to pessimistic. I mean come on can you imagine accomplishing something straight out of one your dreams and becoming dissapointed with it?

[The Continental]

...After reading this topic, I have decided that gamers suck, and have no empathic ability. The dude is a dreamer, he likes to dream up ideas. He thought that making games would be a great way to work what he likes to do into his proffession. In his opinion, he was wrong. Now everyone says that he is selfish because he has expressed his disatisfaction for the experience?

I'm not saying he's selfish, just a little to pessimistic. I mean come on can you imagine accomplishing something straight out of one your dreams and becoming dissapointed with it?

Precisely. The guy has delivered critically praised, commercially successful games, time and time again. If he doesn't find the experience rewarding, he can step aside at any time. Last I checked there was no shortage of people looking to do exactly what he's doing.

[Paranoia]

Jaffe burned out? Well boo fucking hoo.

[RevGored]

I can imagine accomplishing something that you thought was your dream, and then realizing it ISN'T that, and how crushing that would be.

I feel bad for the guy - he's good at what he does, but it's not what he likes doing. Think about it as a guy working as a head in accounts recievable, but always wanted to be a glass blower or something. It doesn't matter how good you are at your job, it's still a JOB unless it's a challenging benefit to your life.

[evilrobot]

The guy has delivered critically praised, commercially successful games, time and time again.


I hate this pretentious BS. He delivered? God of War was developed by a hard working team at Sony Santa Monica - they had to crunch for years to get the game done. Twisted Metal was developed by the hard working folks at Incog. What was the "design" inspiration for that? Let's make a deathmatch game with cars? Please

[SexualChoc]

I wonder if this will have any effect on a any further God of War games? Perhaps a change of direction not unlike Prince of Perisa. I hope however this is not the case.

[Lord Nerdious]

I can imagine accomplishing something that you thought was your dream, and then realizing it ISN'T that, and how crushing that would be.

I feel bad for the guy - he's good at what he does, but it's not what he likes doing. Think about it as a guy working as a head in accounts recievable, but always wanted to be a glass blower or something. It doesn't matter how good you are at your job, it's still a JOB unless it's a challenging benefit to your life.

This is true but, it's all in your outlook. Imagine if Peter Molyneaux had the same outlook on the same profession. Fable would have been a disaster to him, probably ruined him creativly. But, despite the fact that the game never lived up to his hopes and expectations, he still loved the title enough to stay positive for a sequel.

David Jaffe's title on the other hand lived up to everything it said it would and more. Now he's looking at it as if he wasted time. I have a really hard time seeing him coming up with good ideas for GoW 2 & 3. So why is he making them? Why doesn't he let someone else handle the creative process behind the game? Because he's full of shit.

[JovialPeon]

I'm impressed that two ideas (ie, GoW and Twisted Metal) burnt him out.

[Heretic Machine]

If he doesn't find the experience rewarding, he can step aside at any time. Last I checked there was no shortage of people looking to do exactly what he's doing.

And? Why are you bitching about this? Why are you so upset with him showing some disatisfaction with his job? Why are other people here acting like he should be thanking his creator for giving him the privaledge of working as a game designer?

EDIT: You know what this is like? This is like taking a page out of someone's personal journal, and criticizing it.

[The Continental]

I hate this pretentious BS. He delivered? God of War was developed by a hard working team at Sony Santa Monica - they had to crunch for years to get the game done. Twisted Metal was developed by the hard working folks at Incog. What was the "design" inspiration for that? Let's make a deathmatch game with cars? Please

"He delivered", is an abstraction, meaning he took part in the creation of. Remind me again where I singled him out as creating the entire game himself? You also managed to miss the entire point of my post, allow me to reassemble it with your quoted portion intact so that you can have another go at it.

The guy has delivered critically praised, commercially successful games, time and time again. If he doesn't find the experience rewarding, he can step aside at any time. Last I checked there was no shortage of people looking to do exactly what he's doing.

[Lord Nerdious]

And? Why are you bitching about this? Why are you so upset with him showing some disatisfaction with his job? Why are other people here acting like he should be thanking his creator for giving him the privaledge of working as a game designer?

Because unlike some shitty desk job, this is a highly sought after position, with many people aspiring to be in the position he is in. This hits right at the heart of any gamer, someone creating their favorite form of media as a ball and chain.

[The Continental]

And? Why are you bitching about this? Why are you so upset with him showing some disatisfaction with his job? Why are other people here acting like he should be thanking his creator for giving him the privaledge of working as a game designer?

EDIT: You know what this is like? This is like taking a page out of someone's personal journal, and criticizing it.

We're not bitching, we're simply not sympathizing. Blogging for the most part is attention whoring, not to be confused with "someone's personal journal".

[Rifter]

I think I got a message that deviated from what you guys read. What I read, is that he loves adventure games, but after making one, he would MUCH rather play one. It sounds like he is also going for the essence of game. I took from it, that he is looking at games like bejeweled or Tetris. No real story, but a game. Purity of gaming. Lets face it, We are looking Doom 3, Quake 4... but they are all different games. Tetris, in its very essence is still being played, and made for each new platform that comes out. :-) Sure, people expand it, and add their own little touches, but there is still (usually) a Tetris Classic in any new version.

I took from his blog, that is what he is aiming for.

I have a question, how many of you actually read the blog, and how many just read the blurb at the beginning of this thread? The Blog is a good read, and may make you rethink what you said about him.

[Heretic Machine]

Because unlike some shitty desk job, this is a highly sought after position, with many people aspiring to be in the position he is in. This hits right at the heart of any gamer, someone creating their favorite form of media as a ball and chain.

...90% of the people "seeking" to become game developers are in High School. They have no idea how hard it is, or any comprehension of the stress and disapointment involved.

[captainstrombosis]

...After reading this topic, I have decided that gamers suck, and have no empathic ability. The dude is a dreamer, he likes to dream up ideas. He thought that making games would be a great way to work what he likes to do into his proffession. In his opinion, he was wrong. Now everyone says that he is selfish because he has expressed his disatisfaction for the experience?

I agree, partly. However people calling him a drama queen is about right. Most people goto jobs they hate, big deal. That's just life. If I went into work and started bitching about how I hated my job...do you think people would have reacted better than they did here? No. They would have told me to get the hell over it or quit.

So I will fix your idea.

After reading this topic, I have decided that People suck, and have no empathic ability.

[hotdrop]

This is true but, it's all in your outlook. Imagine if Peter Molyneaux had the same outlook on the same profession. Fable would have been a disaster to him, probably ruined him creativly. But, despite the fact that the game never lived up to his hopes and expectations, he still loved the title enough to stay positive for a sequel.

And therein lies the problem, i dont think that guys delivered on a singly good game.

[Lord Nerdious]

Are you saying Fable was bad? Stand alone, no hype involved, Fable was an extremely well made game. But set in the sights of it's grand vision it pales in comparison. Fun, and too the point, isn't that what games are?

[Zurik]

He basically said that he doesn't like how his ideas end up when translated to the actual game. I messed around with game design, and can understand how what you can make with the tools given isn't exactly like what you have pictured in your head. It can be very disappointing and I sympathize with him in that respect. I think most people here are just afraid he won't make another hit like God of War because of his attitude.

[Philonious]

He wasn't complaining about game development, just the fact that despite all the acclaim for GoW, he found it personally unrewarding. He also goes on in the blog to talk about his current experience being far more positive. At the end of the day I can imagine that it would be more pleasant to able to sit down with the game you designed and actually ENJOY playing it.

I think people are blowing this way out of proportion. Seriously, whatever negativity he put out while " whining" has been multiplied ten fold in all the needless criticism of what he wrote.

And, for the record, he DID step down as Lead on GOW2, and kudos to him. It's a guaranteed hit and would be a good professional move, but he has the courage of his convictions to step away and do something more personally rewarding.

[Banacek]

EDIT: You know what this is like? This is like taking a page out of someone's personal journal, and criticizing it.

I really don't care about this topic, but this point right here is bullshit. The ONLY reason to post something on the web is to have other people look at it. Don't want people reading your blog? Don't write one.

[Wasson_]

"I don't want to tell stories with my games anymore."

I just going to read that as:

"I have very limited, if any, story-telling abality."

[t3g]

I miss a good storyline in a video game too.

[Manzy]

How hard is it to implement a story into a game? Hell, you can make Galaga have the best story ever in the whole world and all you would have to do is code in cutscenes after every level.

[Wasson_]

WRONG...

You do it the way Valve does it.

Thankyou and have a nice day.

[Draft]

Jaffe, man. His portfolio speaks for itself, clearly has the game design chops, but man o man I do not dig his writing/speaches.

[Manzy]

WRONG...

You do it the way Valve does it.

Thankyou and have a nice day.

Valve just has cutscenes you can walk away from.

[Wasson_]

You know what?


Your MOM has cutsceans you can walk away from.

[Manzy]

You know what?


Your MOM has cutsceans you can walk away from.

Haha, I walk away from my mom's "cutscenes" all the time (read: Lecturing, preaching- not anything else you sick bastards). Ironically, most videogame cutscenes are just as painful to experience my mom's lectures.

[Wasson_]

Yeah, most cutsenes suck.

[Spigot]

Well they can damn well get off their high horses and acknowledge that the public demands Marathon 4!
Not to mention Myth 4... or was it 5 they were clamouring for? I demand more drunken dwarf explosive experts with real-time physics!

[Spigot]

He's actually busy working on his story-less interactive game:

God of Tetris.

[Wasson_]

That would be...awsome?

[Spigot]

Each Tetrigon (or whatever the technical term is) would land with a squishy thump. After every line is cleared, a flood of gore and tissue would descend upon the screen of your opponent.

[Royal Fool]

God of War is in my top five of all time.
So you've only ever played six games? Wow.

[CannibalKid]

If i get bored of the gameplay before a game's story is complete, i stop playing the game. I bought RE4 and GoW based on their Game of the Year praises. Guess which game i beat?

Trick question. I beat neither.

So i aggree with his decision, and if he can get me to play more fun games that have great mechanics as opposed to the same recycled action game with a story only notable because it's less embarrassing than other games, i think i'll be more pleased.

I beat Twisted Metal 2 with Sweet Tooth because i loved playing Twisted Metal 2.

[cppcrusader]

Do they? Maybe a very small segment of the public.

Only Mac users. ;)

Honestly I'm not surprised that this happened. Over the last year or so I've been getting the feeling that he was ready for a hiatus from everything he's said in the press. He's been in the game a good number of years now. I can't say I feel the same way as him as far as telling stories in games go. Who knows though, after I've told mine I may feel the same way as well.

[wentworth]

is this the rise and fall of david jaffe? :eek:

[fitbabits]

is this the rise and fall of david jaffe? :eek:
One of the very many so far. The man has more sides than an RPG dreamer's dice.

[Netami]

Hey.

Twisted Metal was pretty bitchin'

[Atepsflame]

Sorry, but I really don't care about Mr. Jaffe. He makes one hit game and he thinks he pisses wine and shits gold. Get over it man. I'm not interested in selling cigarrettes and beer to people all day long, but I do it anyway.

[Spigot]

Sorry, but I really don't care about Mr. Jaffe. He makes one hit game and he thinks he pisses wine and shits gold. Get over it man. I'm not interested in selling cigarrettes and beer to people all day long, but I do it anyway.
Um. He's made more than just one hit game. He's no Shiggy, but he's definately no slouch in the game dev department.

[Manzy]

I wonder how much influence, say, Miyamoto, Specter, etc. have on a games story? Most of the time the games that a major game designer has produced have stories that aren't the OMG of OMGs.

[Spigot]

I wonder how much influence, say, Miyamoto, Specter, etc. have on a games story? Most of the time the games that a major game designer has produced have stories that aren't the OMG of OMGs.
Clarify your OMG so I can counter it with an acronym of my choosing.

I'm pretty sure that Spector was a driving force behind much of Deus Ex's story and Miyamoto is basically responsible for almost every Nintendo flagship character and their adventures. I'm sure some of the games cranked out by Nintendo with Mario & Co. aren't given more than a passing glance by Miyamoto-san, but the flagship titles for the various series seem to have his influence all over them.

Plus there's Pikmin.

[Evil Avnovice]

In his part of the blog where he's currently working on his "supposed" next project, I wonder if it's his upcoming PSP title? From what he blogged, it sounds like he's having fun with it, but he never hinted at the storyline. He mentions just focusing on the pure gameplay aspect.

[Watership]

What do you expect really? The media and game culture has been stroking this guys dick for a few years now. God of War was one of the best games on the playstation 2, and Twisted Metal Black was probably the only good early PS2 game.. and we loved that this guy had a blog and that he bitched and moaned and he swore! wow.

Next developer please.

[bapenguin]

WRONG...

You do it the way Valve does it.

Thankyou and have a nice day.

You mean skip the story all together? ;)

[Manzy]

Clarify your OMG so I can counter it with an acronym of my choosing.

I'm pretty sure that Spector was a driving force behind much of Deus Ex's story and Miyamoto is basically responsible for almost every Nintendo flagship character and their adventures. I'm sure some of the games cranked out by Nintendo with Mario & Co. aren't given more than a passing glance by Miyamoto-san, but the flagship titles for the various series seem to have his influence all over them.

Plus there's Pikmin.

I don't know of any other acronym that OMG stands for other than 'Oh my God.'

Dues Ex is the exception here - but I doubt Spector crafted the story. As for Miyamoto, he probably has invented about three stories that he uses over and over, and none so far have been anything overly spectacular. Insanely fun mind you, but not above-average stories.

[Spigot]

I don't know of any other acronym that OMG stands for other than 'Oh my God.'

Dues Ex is the exception here - but I doubt Spector crafted the story. As for Miyamoto, he probably has invented about three stories that he uses over and over, and none so far have been anything overly spectacular. Insanely fun mind you, but not above-average stories.
I figured OMG was 'Oh My God', but wasn't sure if I was just getting too old and that it meant 'Original Master Game' or some such.

I guess the easy way to find these things out would be to look at the credits and see who gets props (MAD PROPS!) for the story in each game.

And you're right about most of Shiggy's stories being essentially the same and simple, but for what they're worth, they are extremely fun, they translate very well across almost any culture line AND... um... did I mention that they're fun?

Not every story has to be War & Peace. I look at Zelda and even most of the Mario games as having perfectly fine, simple stories that complement the gameplay rather than overshadowing it. Miyamoto tends to let the games tell the story instead of explicitly writing 18 hour cutscenes with talking heads filling in the blanks. He lets the gamer tell the story their way instead (with a bit more structure in the later games).

[Manzy]

I figured OMG was 'Oh My God', but wasn't sure if I was just getting too old and that it meant 'Original Master Game' or some such.

I guess the easy way to find these things out would be to look at the credits and see who gets props (MAD PROPS!) for the story in each game.

And you're right about most of Shiggy's stories being essentially the same and simple, but for what they're worth, they are extremely fun, they translate very well across almost any culture line AND... um... did I mention that they're fun?

Not every story has to be War & Peace. I look at Zelda and even most of the Mario games as having perfectly fine, simple stories that complement the gameplay rather than overshadowing it. Miyamoto tends to let the games tell the story instead of explicitly writing 18 hour cutscenes with talking heads filling in the blanks. He lets the gamer tell the story their way instead (with a bit more structure in the later games).

I agree with you, I was just shedding light on the fact that game designer's primary objective usually doesn't have much to do with the story, so I fail to see why Jaffe is bitching about something he can hire someone else to do.

[evilrobot]

Jaffe, man. His portfolio speaks for itself, clearly has the game design chops, but man o man I do not dig his writing/speaches.

That is because he has no writing or communication skills. He gets his ideas from other people. He always took credit for other people's ideas.

[01010]

And therein lies the problem, i dont think that guys delivered on a singly good game.

If you think Peter Molyneux hasn't delivered a good game then you haven't been gaming very long.

[Spigot]

If you think Peter Molyneux hasn't delivered a good game then you haven't been gaming very long.
I thought he was talking about David Jaffe.

You're right though. If you don't remember the heady days of Bullfrog (oh, for a new Magic Carpet or Syndicate game...) then you're too young.