Microsoft Handheld - Zune?

[MSUStud911]

1up.com (http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3152073) reports:
Late last night, however, Gizmodo received a tip from an alleged insider on the project, claiming the final name was Zune and attaching a clear photo of the product's sleek design.
Click here to see Zune. (http://www.engadget.com/media/2006/07/microsoft_argo_player.jpg)

1up goes on to speculate about Zune's capabilities:
Zune, at least in its initial release, will not have anything to do with games. That doesn't, however, mean there won't be Xbox 360 hooks.

Much like how an iPod can share music with an Xbox 360 via a USB cable, this will also be possible with Zune. The one catch with Apple's hardware, however, is incompatibility with iTunes-purchased files. As you can probably already guess, there won't be similar issues with music bought from the store Microsoft will be sponsoring alongside Zune.

Interesting stuff. If MS can price this competitively then it might be time for MSU to get an .mp3 player.

[CaptStu]

I've been forcing myself away from the iPod bandwagon, and it may have been a good idea all along. Depending on the cost, I'm there.

[SexualChoc]

That looks way too much like an iPod. I think it's fake.

[MSUStud911]

That looks way too much like an iPod. I think it's fake.
Yeah, when the pic popped out a couple of days ago I thought the same thing. I guess we'll just have to wait for official word.

As for price, I'm thinking MS will come in way under Apple. iPods are pretty overpriced (in my opinion) and I think Microsoft offering a premium alternative with built-in brand recognition might actually be somewhat of a threat to Apple.

So how are you guys saying "Zune"? I'm thinking "Zoon" but I guess it could be "Zoonee". *shrugs*

[Demo_Boy]

actually it is ugly as heck

[CaptStu]

I keep thinking of Dune, and when I think of Dune, I think of large worm-like things. This is about as far as my Dune knowledge extends.

[Kamalot]

If this thing has Live integrated along with WiFi, I'm sold. I want the ability to share my legit collection with other people. Imagine being able to see who's online, see what they are playing or listening to. Imagine walking into your home and having it sync over the Mecia Center shows your PC recorded during the day.

If they can integrate the Internet into this, it will usher in a new era of media players.

If it is nothing more than a Microsoft-branded iPod, the thing will tank.

[CaptStu]

If this thing has Live integrated along with WiFi, I'm sold. I want the ability to share my legit collection with other people. Imagine being able to see who's online, see what they are playing or listening to. Imagine walking into your home and having it sync over the Mecia Center shows your PC recorded during the day.
Live Anywhere anybody?

[Savok]

Zune? *shrung* Whatever

[Kamalot]

Imagine EvilAvatar podcasts being delivered straight to the player the moment they are released. Imagine voice-chat on this, communicating with your Friends on Live, perhaps in-game.

[Captain Awesome]

This is sounding more, and more interesting.

[MSUStud911]

Yeah, Live integration and Wi-fi would really distinguish Zune from other media players. Hopefully all of that is in the cards.

[Wyrm]

What about the ability to load your live arcade games on this thing? That would be fucking badass.

[Roc Ingersol]

It would be awfully convenient to be able to share music with other people, without having to plug in or find a PC. I do hope the wifi has a physical on/off switch though. As in, I flip it on when I want to share data, I flip it off when I'm done.

No need to drain my batteries scanning for 802.11 nodes, unless I intend to share some data.

[solinari6]

What kind of operating system is this thing going to run? Some bastardized version of windows mobile? I have about zero confidence that microsoft could come up with an interface as simple and elegant as the ipod.

[OUX]

I have to say I am interested, though I also have to say if that is what it looks like MS dropped the ball.

[bboy]

Zunecasting?

[Doctor Setebos]

I agree with those calling bullshit on this being real.

The black border is hideous, the silver nav button is atrocious, and the iPod shape is disgraceful. Microsoft has proved to us with the 360 that they can design a sleek and sexy consumer device. They will definitely prove it again with any MP3 player they throw out. And mark my words: it will have green on it somewhere. :D

[NoName]

Imagine EvilAvatar podcasts being delivered straight to the player the moment they are released. Imagine voice-chat on this, communicating with your Friends on Live, perhaps in-game.
Wow, integrating support for a headset with an MP3 player with internet capabilities would be awesome. Then they could even offer a low cost outbound phone service which would be awesome (for someone like me with only a cell phone and wireless internet at home)!

[Chameleo]

would be cool if it had a touch screen and i could use it as a PDA.

also if this is as nice as people are hoping, it will make me want to buy an xbox360.

hahaha imagine that.

[KSmitty]

It could be real it could be fake...eh who cares.
As far as it looking like an ipod, one of the main things people credit the ipod for is its interface. If it ain't broke don't fix it, the toggle wheel works great. Improve screen size (which this pic has), create a comparable/better music service than itunes, make it cheaper, increase battery life and find a way to integrate the Xbox 360 and you have a unit that will sell very well.

-K

[Kamalot]

If it has a touch-screen and a browser, I'm all over it like a fat kid on cupcakes.

I'd be able to download music and organize my collection over the network.

I've seriously been thinking of getting one of these (http://www.oqo.com) as a media player/laptop replacement/skype phone/etc. I hope Zune makes a great device and prevents me from spending $1600 on a handheld laptop.

[fitbabits]

So I can finally spill the beans!!!

Zune it is, followed by Zuly, Zaugust, Zeptember, Zoctober, Zovember, Zecember, Zanuary, Zebruary, Zarch, Zapril, and finally Zay!

[Cubfan]

So I can finally spill the beans!!!

Zune it is, followed by Zuly, Zaugust, Zeptember, Zoctober, Zovember, Zecember, Zanuary, Zebruary, Zarch, Zapril, and finally Zay!

Sweet, I'll get a Zanuary cuz thats the month I was born! :eek:

[Inglorion]

It looks like a bad copy of one of the older iPods.

[jacktion]

Damn that is ugly. So ugly that I wouldn't take one for free. Probably fake.

[AniAko]

Appealing to my geek side, I purchased an iPod nano because it's main memory was solid state. I dug that incredibly. However, I've started seeing limitations with Apple's DRM, so switching to the Zune won't be much of a problem for me. Especially since MS is going to purchase all my iTunes songs in the MS format :D

[Busted_Astromech]

I think one big knock against its plausability is the screen dimensions. Presumably it would play video to compete with the newest iPods,, but unless you're supposed to hold it sideways (and if so it would be photographed like that), you would be wasting a ton of screen real estate.

[Kamalot]

I think one big knock against its plausability is the screen dimensions. Presumably it would play video to compete with the newest iPods,, but unless you're supposed to hold it sideways (and if so it would be photographed like that), you would be wasting a ton of screen real estate.
The new Toshiba Gigabeat is used in either portrait or landscape mode.

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsmobile/media/gigabeat.mspx

http://pmpz.net/pics/review_img/Toshiba%20Gigabeat%20S30/s30mouse.jpg

http://www.dapreview.net/e107_plugins/content/content.php?content.284.4

[RMan]

Although it looks to be a simple enough device, without a touch screen it seems to be a device hitting the market too late. I mean, beating the iPod, that’s what they have to strive to do, but at the same time the iPod is being made obsolete by cell phones. Seriously, I just don’t see why I’d bother carrying another device, my cell phone has a gig on it (added a mem card) and plays mp3s, and it seems similar cell phones are becoming the norm now. I just don’t see how they could convince people with a phone like mine that it’s worthwhile to carry that sucker around (mine plays videos too, so it’s a pretty tough sell). If it has a touch screen, then that opens up many more options, but it just seems like they’re a few years too late to me. They’re trying to get their service model going, but I think they’ll have to throw more money at the device to get it off the ground (for those not heavily integrated into the live system).

[AniAko]

Although it looks to be a simple enough device, without a touch screen it seems to be a device hitting the market too late. I mean, beating the iPod, that’s what they have to strive to do, but at the same time the iPod is being made obsolete by cell phones. Seriously, I just don’t see why I’d bother carrying another device, my cell phone has a gig on it (added a mem card) and plays mp3s, and it seems similar cell phones are becoming the norm now. I just don’t see how they could convince people with a phone like mine that it’s worthwhile to carry that sucker around (mine plays videos too, so it’s a pretty tough sell). If it has a touch screen, then that opens up many more options, but it just seems like they’re a few years too late to me. They’re trying to get their service model going, but I think they’ll have to throw more money at the device to get it off the ground (for those not heavily integrated into the live system).

I'll bite here... The sheer geek side of me loved the idea of solid state memory for digital music player. So I picked up a nano, the only true iPod that is 100% shock resistant sans snapping it in half. But other than that the player isn't all that impressive.

The iPod is nothing but a pure marketing success. I've seen better / cheaper players first hand. They've made it a household name to mean "portable music player". It's a social success, not a technological one.

Microsoft has immense marketing power, and pushing the player won't be hard for MS. Include the fact that it'll be more technologically advanced than the iPod, and Microsoft's marketing wonder of "BUYING" all your iTunes songs for their format if you make the switch, if MS can beat the iPod price, they're sitting on a gold mine.

[RMan]

The iPod is nothing but a pure marketing success. I've seen better / cheaper players first hand. They've made it a household name to mean "portable music player". It's a social success, not a technological one.
Agreed, they got there first, but often that’s what makes the biggest difference (hardly the first time we’ve seen that). Other than timing, I don’t think the iPod is particularly special either.
Microsoft has immense marketing power, and pushing the player won't be hard for MS. Include the fact that it'll be more technologically advanced than the iPod, and Microsoft's marketing wonder of "BUYING" all your iTunes songs for their format if you make the switch, if MS can beat the iPod price, they're sitting on a gold mine.
Yea, but I think you’re missing an important element, the buying of the tunes is good, pretty much necessary, but you’re still asking consumers to buy a new device. For new customers, beating the iPod’s price will do the trick, but for existing iPod customers it’s still going to cost them buying the device again, so they’ll have to prove significant worth, unlike, say, the 360, the content will be readily available for all devices (iPod, Zune, cell phones, etc.) so it’s a mutually exclusive purchase. What I’m saying is for me, I don’t own an iPod, and wouldn’t consider it. So, another portable device would have to offer something more than my cell phone to make me bother with it (it actually has to add something significant over my cell phone and DS Lite), and for customers that own an iPod they have to do MUCH more than tell them that transferring music is free, because it’s still more trouble and the hardware isn’t free. If released just after the iPod, it’d have far stronger position, but it has a lot of entrenched competition now.

[XenonCJ]

This will be like the XBox... the 1st version will be rough around the edges and kinda suck, the 2nd one like in 2008 or something will be the refined version that takes over.

[AniAko]

Agreed, they got there first, but often that’s what makes the biggest difference (hardly the first time we’ve seen that). Other than timing, I don’t think the iPod is particularly special either.

Yea, but I think you’re missing an important element, the buying of the tunes is good, pretty much necessary, but you’re still asking consumers to buy a new device. For new customers, beating the iPod’s price will do the trick, but for existing iPod customers it’s still going to cost them buying the device again, so they’ll have to prove significant worth, unlike, say, the 360, the content will be readily available for all devices (iPod, Zune, cell phones, etc.) so it’s a mutually exclusive purchase. What I’m saying is for me, I don’t own an iPod, and wouldn’t consider it. So, another portable device would have to offer something more than my cell phone to make me bother with it (it actually has to add something significant over my cell phone and DS Lite), and for customers that own an iPod they have to do MUCH more than tell them that transferring music is free, because it’s still more trouble and the hardware isn’t free. If released just after the iPod, it’d have far stronger position, but it has a lot of entrenched competition now.

Timing is always critical when it comes to product releases, but it's my firm belief that the only reason why Apple is so successful with an arguably over-priced lackluster product is due to how they've ingrained the iPod's existence into our culture. It’s no different than your typical “Reebok pumps” fad. When a fad dies practical solutions or new fads take precedence. While I’ve never respected MS to be much of a trend setting company, I do believe that they have the technological gusto to pull off a better “bang for my buck” music player. So unless Apple ponies up for a competitive market and gets aggressive in the next generations of iPods, they’ll fall victim to mediocrity and lose their crown.

[RMan]

Timing is always critical when it comes to product releases, but it's my firm belief that the only reason why Apple is so successful with an arguably over-priced lackluster product is due to how they've ingrained the iPod's existence into our culture. It’s no different than your typical “Reebok pumps” fad.
I won’t argue with that, but it doesn’t change the fact that they are there. Unlike buying new shoes, it’s FAR more expensive and troublesome to change music services (and unlike shoes I don’t have to replace it frequently anyway).
When a fad dies practical solutions or new fads take precedence.
Don’t think music playing is going to die anytime soon, not sure what you’re referring to. The iPod will have to be replaced, it will not just fade away and is not a fad in the respect you suggest. Like I said before, I think the cell phones will beat both of them, regardless of marketing or entrenchment just because it’s far more convenient (unless they offer additional significant services).
So unless Apple ponies up for a competitive market and gets aggressive in the next generations of iPods, they’ll fall victim to mediocrity and lose their crown.
As I said, I think they will lose it, just not to MS. There is great power in marketing, no doubt, but viewing it objectively, it’s still awfully hard to replace an entrenched product, especially one that is service based. The only places where they have tried that I can think of are webtv (sort of), ultimate tv, and arguably the Xbox, and none of them have yet to be very successful. The product they do have that dwarfs and often supports all their others is their OS, and it’s where it is because it got there first, same reason it will be difficult to replace the iPod. Like I said, as far as a music player, I think they’re entering a war that will be costly to win (they’ll have to lose proportionately MUCH more than they are with the 360).

IMO, it’s most likely that they are trying to take steam out of a possible alliance between Apple and Sony. If there is some form of integration between Apple’s media services and hardware and Sony’s services and hardware, then they would need to deflate the significance of that overall service quickly, and this would be the only shot at doing that.

[Roc Ingersol]

Microsoft didn't 'get their first' with msdos. nor did they, with windows.
office sure as hell wasn't first; nor exchange, directX, winCE, ie, etc.
Frankly, Microsoft has never been first. They've bought their way into every market they control long after it had been established.

the ipod's entrenched because it's good, despite its price. it can easily get smoked by a 'good enough' product with better pricing.

[AniAko]

I won’t argue with that, but it doesn’t change the fact that they are there. Unlike buying new shoes, it’s FAR more expensive and troublesome to change music services (and unlike shoes I don’t have to replace it frequently anyway).
Heh my rebok's costed $150 ;) Although you bring up a good point. The transition alone can also be a headache. The iTunes successor would have to make the transition almost seemless.

Don’t think music playing is going to die anytime soon, not sure what you’re referring to. The iPod will have to be replaced, it will not just fade away and is not a fad in the respect you suggest. Like I said before, I think the cell phones will beat both of them, regardless of marketing or entrenchment just because it’s far more convenient (unless they offer additional significant services).
I didn't mean playing music was trend. I meant the iPod culture is currently trendy. To have one is to be with the in crowd. I know the culture will probably never die, and if it eventually disappears over time, it won't go silently. Although it is the popularity of the "iPod culture" that is driving its demand. It's socially successful. When the iPod is no longer socially hip, the market will even out to the competition more.

As I said, I think they will lose it, just not to MS. There is great power in marketing, no doubt, but viewing it objectively, it’s still awfully hard to replace an entrenched product, especially one that is service based. The only places where they have tried that I can think of are webtv (sort of), ultimate tv, and arguably the Xbox, and none of them have yet to be very successful. The product they do have that dwarfs and often supports all their others is their OS, and it’s where it is because it got there first, same reason it will be difficult to replace the iPod. Like I said, as far as a music player, I think they’re entering a war that will be costly to win (they’ll have to lose proportionately MUCH more than they are with the 360).

IMO, it’s most likely that they are trying to take steam out of a possible alliance between Apple and Sony. If there is some form of integration between Apple’s media services and hardware and Sony’s services and hardware, then they would need to deflate the significance of that overall service quickly, and this would be the only shot at doing that.
Anyone facing the iTunes/iPod goliath right now has their work cut out for them. But as far as the competition goes, it seems to me like MS is the running leader to be a REAL contender. Although I will say that nobody has seen nearly enough of MS's plans to make a clear judgement. I think it's best to see what Apple's and Microsoft's respective moves are next.

You mentioned cellphone music players. Carrying one device that does it all is a consumer's dream. Personally I've been waiting for a cellphone/PDA device. The problem is all the products out there are PDA's that have cellphone functionalities, or cellphones with PDA functionalities. Similarly for cellphone music players. For some people the hybrid products do just fine. Although, for me and others I know, we need a product that is a fully functioning cellphone, as well as a fully functioning PDA. This is mostly due to hybrid products lacking features, or having significant drawbacks in either scenario. It's like manufacturers have a rounded square they're trying to fit into a circular hole, it still doesn't quite fit.

[AniAko]

the ipod's entrenched because it's good, despite its price. it can easily get smoked by a 'good enough' product with better pricing.

Then why don't the "better" existing products with "better" pricing have the lead? Culture entrenched products are "very" difficult to remove. It takes more than a better product to replace them; it takes a more popular one. Which sadly cannot be bought, swayed, or even out-marketed.

[RMan]

I didn't mean playing music was trend. I meant the iPod culture is currently trendy.
Oh, I see. Well, you could be right, but I don’t think so. IMO, it’s a new portable music culture, the iPod is just the front runner product for it currently. Just like the Walkman started the portable music culture, but there were plenty of portable cassette players and people often talked about their Walkman, even though it may not have been a Walkman. May be the same thing you mean, that owning a ‘iPod’ brand device is trendy like owning a ‘Walkman’ brand player, I guess we’ll find out how much that’s true when it has serious competition to contend with.
Although I will say that nobody has seen nearly enough of MS's plans to make a clear judgement.
Yea, that’s definitely true. I think there’s gotta be a much bigger plan, but I do think people often feel that MS has a steady and mammoth stream of cash, so can conquer any market, but dealing with entrenched competition is still very tough. Having cash makes them versatile in terms of dealing with new opportunities, but still doesn’t ensure success by any means.
The problem is all the products out there are PDA's that have cellphone functionalities, or cellphones with PDA functionalities.
Yea, mine’s the latter (cellphone with PDA), but that’s great for me and satisfies my current needs. I pretty much feel if I get a cell phone with touch screen ability and Java support, I’d be set for a long time (my phone doesn’t support Java, the sleazy bastages).

[AniAko]

RMan,

Agreements all around ;)

For the record, I still have my Diamond Rio PMP300, the second MP3 player ;) It had 32MB of solid state memory, and an expansion slot for an extra 16MB. It ran on a single AAA battery for 20 hours. Showed only the track being played. I believe at that time I also had an Ericsson TDMA cellular phone with 60 minutes on peak, and 100 minutes off peak a month...

Man have times changed....

[dr_wily]

the next version will me Zune: Messiah
then Children of Zune, God Emperor of Zune.. you get the drill..
hyuck.