Integrated HDMI Coming to 360? [Archive]

GunnyMo

07-09-2006, 07:03 AM

Ah, time for more console rumors but this time from the Microsoft side of the fence.

Engadget (http://www.engadget.com/) provides this little rumor mill gem. (http://www.engadget.com/2006/07/08/hdmi-port-coming-to-the-xbox-360/) Of course, for those not in the know, HDMI cables usually run $120.00. (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7128903&type=product&id=1109938023817)

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a390/fitbabits/xbox-360-hdmi.jpg

If true, this would be a nice little add to the system.

zim2411

07-09-2006, 08:24 AM

For those not in the know, Best Buy also charges 4-5 times as much as Newegg for cables. Take for instance a 50ft CAT6 cable. $38 on Bestbuy, $8 on Newegg.

TrackZero

07-09-2006, 08:30 AM

Interesting. I think it'd be nice to optionally get it for those who want it.

Lord Nerdious

07-09-2006, 08:31 AM

But how are they going to cool the Early Adopter backlash?

holysin

07-09-2006, 08:35 AM

As far as I remember, cables from Monster Cable are extremely expensive.
Isn't this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16812105829) the same thing?

Sazime

07-09-2006, 08:39 AM

As far as I remember, cables from Monster Cable are extremely expensive.
Isn't this (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16812105829) the same thing?
Sure looks like it, but Monster has some of the best signal quality available. Sure, you can make your own cables cheaper, but they never look nearly as nice.

Chalex

07-09-2006, 08:42 AM

Vermillion

07-09-2006, 08:47 AM

I would highly suggest that they offer to trade in my current box for a new one for a nominal fee (I'd be willing to go up to $50). Just let me send it in like it's broken, and they upgrade the board and the shell to the new style.

Taco

07-09-2006, 08:47 AM

eth3rton

07-09-2006, 08:51 AM

I'd like to see it added just to shut the Sony fanboys up.... This is very likely though. A $299/$399 console with HDMI. Hope they aren't adding this instead of dropping the price for the 2007 Holidays though. Most parents could care less about this feature probably....

__________________________________________________ ____________________

"I would highly suggest that they offer to trade in my current box for a new one for a nominal fee (I'd be willing to go up to $50). Just let me send it in like it's broken, and they upgrade the board and the shell to the new style."

That would be great but I'll bet we get an "Adaptor Cable" of some sorts instead... for $50 ;) ....

Chalex

07-09-2006, 08:59 AM

Yeah. Just look how that worked out for the PS3 :rolleyes:The PS3 has added/removed features since its retail release? :confused:

Qoz

07-09-2006, 09:05 AM

Sure looks like it, but Monster has some of the best signal quality available. Sure, you can make your own cables cheaper, but they never look nearly as nice.Well, HDMI is pure digital so the quality is not a variable like with VGA. Either it works or it doesn't (serious artifacts all over). With better cables all you get is more length.

zim2411

07-09-2006, 09:10 AM

Sure looks like it, but Monster has some of the best signal quality available. Sure, you can make your own cables cheaper, but they never look nearly as nice.

That was true for analog signals. HDMI is digital, and is therefore less prone to interference. Making an HDMI cable looks a little hard, so you really are best off purchasing them.

Edit: Bah Qoz beat me to it :p

dr_wily

07-09-2006, 09:14 AM

since prices are mentioned I would like to point out www.monoprice.com
A friend referred me there and I got some hdmi cables and some opticals too.

INSANE prices, super low shipping (it was like 5$ for 4 cables), and they work great.

I did it to free some ports on my tv though, I cant really tell the difference between component over air hdtv and hdmi.. but I doubt it would be worth it for microsoft to change now.. 720p component 360 is sweetness..

The Iron Weasel

07-09-2006, 09:15 AM

I'm hoping that if they do this they'll offer you an option to send you 360 in and get another one back with HDMI. Thats what happened when Nintendo took the progressive scan stuff out.

TrackZero

07-09-2006, 09:17 AM

Someone should tell Microsoft that when it comes to game consoles you take unused features out as the system moves through its lifespan, not add stuff that probably should have been there in the first place.

Yeah, just like those good old Nintendo boys removing 480p capability from the GameCube after it had only been out for a year. ;)

Thankfully mine has the jack, and I grabbed the cable off Nintendo's website.

Chalex

07-09-2006, 09:21 AM

Yeah, just like those good old Nintendo boys removing 480p capability from the GameCube after it had only been out for a year. ;)

Thankfully mine has the jack, and I grabbed the cable off Nintendo's website.RE4 with the component cables is quite possibly the single best looking game from the last gen.

DeadScreenSky

07-09-2006, 09:25 AM

For those not in the know, Best Buy also charges 4-5 times as much as Newegg for cables. Take for instance a 50ft CAT6 cable. $38 on Bestbuy, $8 on Newegg.
And even Best Buy sells some HDMI cables for (a still-high) $63 (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=6821317&type=product&id=1091101517438), too. You can get equivalent cables for $7 + shipping elsewhere (http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10240&cs_id=1024004&p_id=2504&seq=1&format=2&style=). But I don't understand why anybody would need or pretend to need Monster versions of a digital cable. Admittedly HDMI is a pretty poorly designed spec (http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/dvihdmicomponent.htm) (intentionally, IMO), but if the cable works it works. There's absolutely no need to pay for the Monster branding.

(Of course since the 'X360 picture' is almost undoubtedly a photoshop none of this really matters.)

zim2411

07-09-2006, 09:43 AM

(Of course since the 'X360 picture' is almost undoubtedly a photoshop none of this really matters.)

Agreed. There's no EXIF tags, which I find really hard to believe. Even my cell phone does EXIF these days. And while it could have gotten removed, it's still unlikely it's real.

holysin

07-09-2006, 09:44 AM

Sure looks like it, but Monster has some of the best signal quality available. Sure, you can make your own cables cheaper, but they never look nearly as nice.

My point was that the statement on the newspost "HDMI cables usually run $120.00." is faulty, since the monster cable linked could be considered one of the best and most expensive there is around.

It'd be like saying "Cars usually run $2.750.000,00" and linking a Ferrari Enzo.

oldjadedgamer

07-09-2006, 09:46 AM

fitbabits

07-09-2006, 09:49 AM

I don't remember any PS2 backlash from gamers when Sony added features to the hardware after it was released.
That's because it was Sony and they can do no wrong. I mean, they're customer/consumer advocates.

DeadScreenSky

07-09-2006, 10:00 AM

Agreed. There's no EXIF tags, which I find really hard to believe. Even my cell phone does EXIF these days. And while it could have gotten removed, it's still unlikely it's real.
Yep, and it's even flipped horizontally for some reason. I find it hard to believe MS is going to make a new 'lefty' X360. :p

It is possible this could be some sign of the long rumored 'media version' of the X360, presumably with integrated HD-DVD, but in that case it won't have any impact on X360 gaming. Just like how Sony's Japan-only PSX (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PSX_%28DVR%29) with its integrated 160 GB hard disk didn't affect PS2 gaming.

bKangy

07-09-2006, 10:01 AM

Grr, this fucks me off considering I just bought mine. Oh well, it's not like I have a HDTV :P

Tyrant

07-09-2006, 10:05 AM

Sure looks like it, but Monster has some of the best signal quality available. Sure, you can make your own cables cheaper, but they never look nearly as nice.

Man, a statement like that in an AV forum would be like throwing yourself to a pack of wolves.

rein

07-09-2006, 10:10 AM

It's not a big deal to add little things like this after the system launched. The PS2 did it with an ethernet connection... what is the big deal about this?

Shoot, look at the first PS2 units in Japan. They didn't even come with a harddrive bay and it was added in later models.

I don't remember any PS2 backlash from gamers when Sony added features to the hardware after it was released.

No, all PS2's can have ethernet/modem connections. It's not looking like all 360's will have the option of HDMI. As far as the PS2 harddrive, it's the opposite of this, they took something away rather than added something. It's less of a blow to the consumer because you can still find the older models if you really want the harddrive bay.

oldjadedgamer

07-09-2006, 10:16 AM

No, all PS2's can have ethernet/modem connections. It's not looking like all 360's will have the option of HDMI. As far as the PS2 harddrive, it's the opposite of this, they took something away rather than added something. It's less of a blow to the consumer because you can still find the older models if you really want the harddrive bay.

The first three models of the PS2 in Japan that were released... the real "launch" units did not have a harddrive bay. Only after the 4th model was released did they include a harddrive bay.

These included models SCPH-10000, SCPH-15000 and SCPH-18000

TrackZero

07-09-2006, 10:16 AM

RE4 with the component cables is quite possibly the single best looking game from the last gen.

Unfortunately, I still wouldn't know. Since I don't have an HDTV to plug said GC and cables into. Though I know I'm definitely going to want to go back to that game once I am HDTV ready. ;)

TrackZero

07-09-2006, 10:19 AM

Adam Blue

07-09-2006, 10:26 AM

Chalex

07-09-2006, 10:27 AM

The first three models of the PS2 in Japan that were released... the real "launch" units did not have a harddrive bay. Only after the 4th model was released did they include a harddrive bay.

These included models SCPH-10000, SCPH-15000 and SCPH-18000Not such a big deal when you consider the first HDD released in japan was external:

http://www.gamestech.com/playstation2_info/player_m/HDD_System_External_unit/bbunit.jpg

Chalex

07-09-2006, 10:29 AM

I thought it was already known that the output on the 360 is digital, and MS will have their own 360 HDMI cable released for the system at the time of the HD-DVD drive's release. I don't know if people are forgetting it or when this was announced, no one cared about HDMI.
The issue is that the 360 AV output doesn't have any sort of HDCP support, HDMI is a requirement for anyone who wants the HD-DVD drive and is worried about the ICT.

TrackZero

07-09-2006, 10:33 AM

The issue is that the 360 AV output doesn't have any sort of HDCP support, HDMI is a requirement for anyone who wants the HD-DVD drive and is worried about the ICT.

Which of course hasn't really come into play with any content on the market, or is even expected to until the mid-....teens? Hell, I don't even know what decade we say we're in now, let alone the next one.

Tyrant

07-09-2006, 10:38 AM

I thought it was already known that the output on the 360 is digital, and MS will have their own 360 HDMI cable released for the system at the time of the HD-DVD drive's release. I don't know if people are forgetting it or when this was announced, no one cared about HDMI.

I recall reading the findings of some Xbox-Scene forum members a while back and it was stated that the current 360s AV pinouts are purely analog. If the core and premium PS3 is any indication, you can't just release a HDMI cable for the proprietary AV out, but I wouldn't mind eating my words.

oldjadedgamer

07-09-2006, 10:40 AM

Not such a big deal when you consider the first HDD released in japan was external:

Both harddrives were released at the same time since the HDD came out after Sony had changed the hardware from it's original launch configuration. Owners of launch units were forced to pay an extra price for the external model over the internal one.

So it's ok to majorly overhaul the original hardware config just a few months from launch as long as you offer the same thing as the newer unit but at a much higher price to the people who bought the original configuration?

rein

07-09-2006, 10:42 AM

Not such a big deal when you consider the first HDD released in japan was external:

http://www.gamestech.com/playstation2_info/player_m/HDD_System_External_unit/bbunit.jpg

oh snap! :D

rein

07-09-2006, 10:46 AM

Both harddrives were released at the same time since the HDD came out after Sony had changed the hardware from it's original launch configuration. Owners of launch units were forced to pay an extra price for the external model over the internal one.

So it's ok to majorly overhaul the original hardware config just a few months from launch as long as you offer the same thing as the newer unit but at a much higher price to the people who bought the original configuration?

The point is, it was still on option and cheaper than buying the a new PS2. If Microsoft comes out with the HDMI model and an adapter that will allow current owners HDMI, great. If they do not, it will suck for the few that want to upgrade.

bapenguin

07-09-2006, 10:47 AM

It'll be a breakout box on the 360. That's probably a dissambled DVD player.

Last of the Red Hot Mamas

07-09-2006, 10:53 AM

The only way you can do HDMI via a breakout box is with a DVI-to-HDMI adapter. Leaving aside the fact we don't even know the 360 supports DVI (if it does you'd think MS or someone would've released a DVI cable by now), the HDMI spec requires the adapter to be bundled with the device itself, not sold separately.

oldjadedgamer

07-09-2006, 10:59 AM

The point is, it was still on option and cheaper than buying the a new PS2. If Microsoft comes out with the HDMI model and an adapter that will allow current owners HDMI, great. If they do not, it will suck for the few that want to upgrade.

I'm not agreeing with the decision by MS to include something that is not upgradable to the original configuration. I was just pointing out that the PS2's configuration has had the most drastic change to it's original configuration in recent gaming history so adding/taking away from a units launch configuration isn't a big deal.

After all, I was pissed when I bought my original Genesis unit and it could only play sound in mono then they released the Genesis II unit and it played in Stereo. I actually traded the original in just to get Stereo sound.

Sazime

07-09-2006, 11:11 AM

Well, HDMI is pure digital so the quality is not a variable like with VGA. Either it works or it doesn't (serious artifacts all over). With better cables all you get is more length.
Me and my analog brain. :P Totally forgot about that.

Chalex

07-09-2006, 11:20 AM

I'm not agreeing with the decision by MS to include something that is not upgradable to the original configuration. I was just pointing out that the PS2's configuration has had the most drastic change to it's original configuration in recent gaming history so adding/taking away from a units launch configuration isn't a big deal.

After all, I was pissed when I bought my original Genesis unit and it could only play sound in mono then they released the Genesis II unit and it played in Stereo. I actually traded the original in just to get Stereo sound.My issue isn't with the configuration change, my problem was that I bought something under the assumption that it was "final spec", that any changes made past that point would be purely aesthetic in nature. To add insult to injury MS execs have long been saying there was no reason that the 360 couldn't do HDMI, giving consumers the impression that there would someday be a HDMI upgrade/addon, when it seems all they ment was that someday they might add it to future models.

Zanzibar

07-09-2006, 11:30 AM

kid cabelgo

07-09-2006, 12:08 PM

Sure looks like it, but Monster has some of the best signal quality available. Sure, you can make your own cables cheaper, but they never look nearly as nice.

I know people have already responded to this, but I really want to drive home the point that it's totally bullshit.

I cornered one of the guys from Monster at CES this year, and the guy couldn't explain the argument about digital signals.

Monster simply has a corner on the market by getting exclusivity with a lot of major retailers. Then they market their cables as the best of the best, and add stupid shit like gold plated connectors to try to justify their outrageous prices.

Oh BTW, the guy at CES only had one argument for gold plated connectors: They don't rust. So, if your components all are prone to rusting, like if you're running your stuff in a damp leaky basement or something...i guess it's worth 5x the price.... :rolleyes:

Chalex

07-09-2006, 12:14 PM

I know people have already responded to this, but I really want to drive home the point that it's totally bullshit.

I cornered one of the guys from Monster at CES this year, and the guy couldn't explain the argument about digital signals.

Monster simply has a corner on the market by getting exclusivity with a lot of major retailers. Then they market their cables as the best of the best, and add stupid shit like gold plated connectors to try to justify their outrageous prices.

Oh BTW, the guy at CES only had one argument for gold plated connectors: They don't rust. So, if your components all are prone to rusting, like if you're running your stuff in a damp leaky basement or something...i guess it's worth 5x the price.... :rolleyes:While I completely agree with you on monster cable products in general, I refuse to buy any cable that isn't gold plated, corosion kills.

rjcc

07-09-2006, 12:17 PM

My issue isn't with the configuration change, my problem was that I bought something under the assumption that it was "final spec", that any changes made past that point would be purely aesthetic in nature. To add insult to injury MS execs have long been saying there was no reason that the 360 couldn't do HDMI, giving consumers the impression that there would someday be a HDMI upgrade/addon, when it seems all they ment was that someday they might add it to future models.

what kind of fucking moron are you?

this is literally the dumbest post i've ever seen in my life.

If you buy something, the manufacturer is now responsible to never ever add features to a later revision?

LOL. this is hilarious.

rjcc

07-09-2006, 12:20 PM

Sl1pstream

07-09-2006, 12:22 PM

Didn't they say an HDMI adapter might be do-able via the X360's AV-out? If they change the basic specs, is it possible that they'll allow old X360 users to call 1-800-MYXBOX, give them your X360's serial number, and they'll send you an adapter for free/small cost?

Didn't they give original Xbox owners a free game and controllers after the first pricedrop? If so, I wouldn't be surprised if they did this.

tombofsoldier

07-09-2006, 12:24 PM

Prediction: 360 SKUs available for Holiday 07
Core: $250
Premium: $350
(Insert Positive Adjective Here): $400, had HDMI and a 60 gig hard drive.

If the HD-DVD 360 drive is out by then (if its still coming, things aren't looking great for either blu-ray or hd-dvd right now) and assuming its $200, then the consumer would get what approximates the 360 version of the premium PS3 for the same price.

Chalex

07-09-2006, 12:27 PM

what kind of fucking moron are you?

this is literally the dumbest post i've ever seen in my life.

If you buy something, the manufacturer is now responsible to never ever add features to a later revision?

LOL. this is hilarious.
This kind of thing is COMPLETELY unheard of in the console business, then again I suppose that Microsoft has been all about fracturing the market as much as possible with the 360.

Chalex

07-09-2006, 12:29 PM

can somebody edit out tihs "$120 HDMI cable" foolishness out of the original post? there are already too many people confused about hdmi cables, leaving that in there is jsut adding to it. It's been explained already in replies but for anyone who somehow doesn't get it, yes, you can get an HDMI cable for $15 that will work exactly the same as the more expensive ones.Joe consumer buys everything he needs for the console at Best Buy, the cheapest HDMI cable at BB is $100, just beacuse YOU have enough sense to buy a cable online doesn't mean that the other 99% are going to.

rein

07-09-2006, 12:30 PM

what kind of fucking moron are you?

this is literally the dumbest post i've ever seen in my life.

If you buy something, the manufacturer is now responsible to never ever add features to a later revision?

LOL. this is hilarious.

Dude, that was way uncalled for. :mad:

I would hope that all manufactures would at least allow an upgrade path for the older models.

Last of the Red Hot Mamas

07-09-2006, 12:34 PM

This kind of thing is COMPLETELY unheard of in the console business

Hi, I don't think we've met (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AV_Family_Computer)

DeadScreenSky

07-09-2006, 12:38 PM

Joe consumer buys everything he needs for the console at Best Buy, the cheapest HDMI cable at BB is $100, just beacuse YOU have enough sense to buy a cable online doesn't mean that the other 99% are going to.
Not to intrude on your various inept trolling comments, but I already linked a Best Buy HDMI cable that is offered for $63 back on the second page.

rein

07-09-2006, 12:43 PM

Hi, I don't think we've met (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AV_Family_Computer)

Wasn't this much later in the consoles life cycle? After televisions had moved away from RF? I am seriously asking, I don't remember. If Microsoft releases an HDMI version after televisions have moved on to that format, that is one thing. If they do it just to match Sony early in the consoles life cycle, then I think it is dumb.

Chalex

07-09-2006, 12:56 PM

Wasn't this much later in the consoles life cycle? After televisions had moved away from RF? I am seriously asking, I don't remember. If Microsoft releases an HDMI version after televisions have moved on to that format, that is one thing. If they do it just to match Sony early in the consoles life cycle, then I think it is dumb.This happened right around the same time the SNES (Super Famicom) came out, it basicly gave the Famicom functionality the NES had since it's release.

Chalex

07-09-2006, 12:59 PM

Not to intrude on your various inept trolling comments, but I already linked a Best Buy HDMI cable that is offered for $63 back on the second page.My bad, when my friend worked there BB only had Monster branded HDMI cables.

rjcc

07-09-2006, 12:59 PM

This kind of thing is COMPLETELY unheard of in the console business, then again I suppose that Microsoft has been all about fracturing the market as much as possible with the 360.

yeah they totally fractured the market with the 360 by having an add-on hard drive. sony would never do anything like that.

I'm sure that if they did, they wouldn't only have a couple games that supported it, and then later release another revision of the console that didn't have a spot for the hard drive at all.

putting a digital video output on a later revision of the console doesn't facture the market, there aren't all of a suddent games you can't play because you don't have one.

the later revisions of the ps2 had progressive scan dvd playback that didn't suck, did that fracture the market from the early ps2's?

rjcc

07-09-2006, 01:01 PM

Dude, that was way uncalled for. :mad:

I would hope that all manufactures would at least allow an upgrade path for the older models.

so if they want to add something that earlier models can't upgrade to, even though it will in no way degrade the experience or availability of games to the older models, they are forever forbidden to add it to later revisions?

this hasn't been true in the past for consoles and isn't true now.

Chalex

07-09-2006, 01:09 PM

yeah they totally fractured the market with the 360 by having an add-on hard drive. sony would never do anything like that.

I'm sure that if they did, they wouldn't only have a couple games that supported it, and then later release another revision of the console that didn't have a spot for the hard drive at all.

putting a digital video output on a later revision of the console doesn't facture the market, there aren't all of a suddent games you can't play because you don't have one.

the later revisions of the ps2 had progressive scan dvd playback that didn't suck, did that fracture the market from the early ps2's?I Would have no issue if this was an add-on accessory, My issue is that there is seemingly no way for the >8 million people that will have 360s by the time this revision comes out will have no way to add digital output to their console.

The only plausable reason for adding the HDMI port to begin with is for the HD-DVD drive, and if that's the reason they are doing it then why not just put the HDMI port on the drive?

Sazime

07-09-2006, 01:11 PM

I know people have already responded to this, but I really want to drive home the point that it's totally bullshit.
What? That their cables looks nice? Or that you can build a similiar cable your self for much less?

I cornered one of the guys from Monster at CES this year, and the guy couldn't explain the argument about digital signals.
Probably isn't one, but still, they have nice looking cables.

Monster simply has a corner on the market by getting exclusivity with a lot of major retailers. Then they market their cables as the best of the best, and add stupid shit like gold plated connectors to try to justify their outrageous prices.
I pay for beauty, just as a Hollywood starlet does, and it call comes in plastic. Mmmmm..... pretty gold cables.

Oh BTW, the guy at CES only had one argument for gold plated connectors: They don't rust. So, if your components all are prone to rusting, like if you're running your stuff in a damp leaky basement or something...i guess it's worth 5x the price.... :rolleyes:
Dude, my basement is damn leaky, and humid, and damn do my cables look nice!

And really, where's the bullshit? Are you serious?
Hi, I don't think we've met (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AV_Family_Computer)
Dude, I want one. That's freak'n retro as all get out. Dig'n the controllers too.

Another good one is the Sega and Sega CD or 32X. Only later models of the system could use the add-ons.

oldjadedgamer

07-09-2006, 01:23 PM

Another good one is the Sega and Sega CD or 32X. Only later models of the system could use the add-ons.

The SEGA CD can be used with any Genesis model except for the Genesis 3 that was made by Majesco. The 32X unit will work with any model Genesis except for the Majesco made Genesis 3 and the JVC X-Eye. The 32X even works with the SEGA CDX (ugly as sin though when attached).

This has been done before. The original Genesis I model could only output sound in Mono. The Genesis II unit could output sound in Stereo. There is no way to make the Genesis I to output stereo sound. It was a small non game related upgrade and I'm sure there are a few other examples as well.

It's been done before, it will be done again. No one knows if this will be done with the PS3 but looking at how much they drastically changed the PS2 just 2 months after it launched to retail may be a good idea on how they may change the PS3 after launch as well.

Last of the Red Hot Mamas

07-09-2006, 01:30 PM

The only plausable reason for adding the HDMI port to begin with is for the HD-DVD drive, and if that's the reason they are doing it then why not just put the HDMI port on the drive?

Because the HD DVD add-on doesn't handle the audio/video processing itself -- it relies on the 360 to do that. The only way you could output the video through the HD DVD add-on would be to a) send the compressed video to the 360 for processing and then send the decoded video back to the add-on for output, which isn't possible over USB due to bandwidth restrictions, or b) do all the processing on the drive itself, which would push the cost way, way up (due to all the extra hardware that would have to be included) and would defeat the purpose of making it an add-on in the first place.

Sazime

07-09-2006, 01:55 PM

Last of the Red Hot Mamas

07-09-2006, 02:11 PM

The SEGA CD can be used with any Genesis model except for the Genesis 3 that was made by Majesco. The 32X unit will work with any model Genesis except for the Majesco made Genesis 3 and the JVC X-Eye. The 32X even works with the SEGA CDX (ugly as sin though when attached).

If we're going to get anal-retentive (the best kind of retentive) about this, neither the Sega CD nor the 32X worked with the Nomad -- which is a shame, since I like the idea of an add-on significantly larger than the parent system. The Mega Jet didn't work with the Sega CD due to the lack of an expansion slot, although I don't know about 32X compatibility.

oldjadedgamer

07-09-2006, 02:18 PM

If we're going to get anal-retentive (the best kind of retentive) about this, neither the Sega CD nor the 32X worked with the Nomad -- which is a shame, since I like the idea of an add-on significantly larger than the parent system. The Mega Jet didn't work with the Sega CD due to the lack of an expansion slot, although I don't know about 32X compatibility.

How could I forget the Nomad???? I'm slipping in my old age. I worked at the SEGA tech support line back in 1994 so all of that stuff is ingrained in my brain. The only reason the Nomad doesn't work from what I recall is that the video out is next to the cartridge slot and the 32X needs the video out to be connected. The actual 32X unit's size blocked that port.

We had early mock up Nomad units and it did work with the 32X but the final unit doesn't.

51|RandoM

07-09-2006, 02:21 PM

Yeah. Just look how that worked out for the PS3 :rolleyes:

It works just fine for a console that has been released, which is what he meant. Have you picked up a PS3 at the store yet? I didn't think so.

51|RandoM

07-09-2006, 02:28 PM

Unfortunately, I still wouldn't know. Since I don't have an HDTV to plug said GC and cables into. Though I know I'm definitely going to want to go back to that game once I am HDTV ready. ;)

You don't need an HDTV for component video...

TrackZero

07-09-2006, 02:29 PM

You don't need an HDTV for component video...

Uh...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Component_video

Yes you do. Unless you're confusing it with composite.

Nameback

07-09-2006, 02:34 PM

Hi, I don't think we've met (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AV_Family_Computer)

Holy shit I picked up one of those at a yard sale when I was 9, and I never knew what it was :(. Too bad it got lost a while ago

Nameback

07-09-2006, 02:37 PM

Uh...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Component_video

Yes you do. Unless you're confusing it with composite.

Red, Blue and Green? You can have it on a non-hdtv, the main tv in my house does and it dosent have HD

Busted_Astromech

07-09-2006, 02:37 PM

You don't need an HDTV for component video...
Yeah but you pretty much need one for progressive scan.

Last of the Red Hot Mamas

07-09-2006, 02:44 PM

Uh...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Component_video

Yes you do. Unless you're confusing it with composite.

EDTV (480p) sets usually support component input.

The original Genesis I model could only output sound in Mono. The Genesis II unit could output sound in Stereo. There is no way to make the Genesis I to output stereo sound.

Wasn't the headphone output stereo? If it was you could easily get stereo sound to the TV by using a 1/8"-to-RCA cable.

InstaPete

07-09-2006, 02:46 PM

you absolutely don't need an HDTV to use component cables. Component cables can transmit an HD SIGNAL, and you'll see a larger picture quality increase on an HDTV, but they're by no means HD exclusive.

TrackZero

07-09-2006, 02:52 PM

Red, Blue and Green? You can have it on a non-hdtv, the main tv in my house does and it dosent have HD

Ewww. Not really much point in that though. I mean, it'd still look good, but not crazy-better than s-video at any rate.

holysin

07-09-2006, 02:57 PM

Yeah but you pretty much need one for progressive scan.

Not really, there are non-HDTV tvs with progressive scan around. Or at least there used to.

bapenguin

07-09-2006, 03:03 PM

Uh...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Component_video

Yes you do. Unless you're confusing it with composite.

Nah you don't. I havea samsung in my bedroom that has component support. Doesn't even have progressive scan but does have component input option.

TrackZero

07-09-2006, 03:28 PM

Nah you don't. I havea samsung in my bedroom that has component support. Doesn't even have progressive scan but does have component input option.

I guess this goes to show how ancient my TV is. S-Video was new when it came out. ;)

Boomer1111

07-09-2006, 04:12 PM

Sure looks like it, but Monster has some of the best signal quality available. Sure, you can make your own cables cheaper, but they never look nearly as nice.

An HDMI cable is all digital, so unless it can magicaly change a 1 to a 0 then it is the same as any other HDMI cable. Some are really crappy quality but they almost all work. As long as the signal gets to the other end it will look the same as every other cable out there. DVI-D is the same thing.

More on HDMI:

HDMI info (http://www.bluejeanscable.com/articles/hdmi-cables.htm)

Watership

07-09-2006, 04:25 PM

I don't buy this. I think whats really going to happen is that Microsoft will sell an HDMI cable connector just like the current Optical/Component connector with the HD-DVD add on.

MS will probably offer the HDMI connector seperately if you didn't want to buy the HD-DVD attachment.

laggerific

07-09-2006, 04:42 PM

Uh...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Component_video

Yes you do. Unless you're confusing it with composite.

I have an old SD TV that has component inputs...the best inputs available for SD tvs.

Last of the Red Hot Mamas

07-09-2006, 04:45 PM

I think whats really going to happen is that Microsoft will sell an HDMI cable connector just like the current Optical/Component connector with the HD-DVD add on.

The HDMI spec only allows the two standard HDMI input/output ports -- they can't make an HDMI cable that plugs directly into the 360's multiout. The only allowable exception is a DVI-to-HDMI adapter, but like I said earlier, they would have to ship it with the 360 itself, not sell it as a separate add-on or bundle it with the HD DVD drive (they could bundle it with the drive if it had its own outputs, but that's unlikely and if that was the case they could just include a standard HDMI output).

Watership

07-09-2006, 04:56 PM

The HDMI spec only allows the two standard HDMI input/output ports -- they can't make an HDMI cable that plugs directly into the 360's multiout.

So the specs won't allow an HDMI port? It has to be intergrated on the mainboard?

Last of the Red Hot Mamas

07-09-2006, 05:06 PM

So the specs won't allow an HDMI port? It has to be intergrated on the mainboard?

It allows HDMI ports (otherwise you wouldn't have HDMI), it just doesn't allow you to have non-standard HDMI ports. That's why the $600 PS3 has a separate HDMI port instead of just doing HDMI through the multiout.

atariv8

07-09-2006, 05:22 PM

If component SD doesn't look much better than s-video, you don't have the right setup. Component is the absolute only analog way to get the highest possible quality video. There was a guy at work who said the same thing about his PS2 signal, so I went out and bought him a component cable with my own money and hooked it up to his TV. His reaction was, "Jesus"; to which I said, "Amen".

Before SDI (Digital SD) was a wide standard, component was the only way to ensure quality in the post-production world. The sad thing is, if this is how confused a tech savvy crowd is, imagine the general public. The implementation and education of HDTV has been a total disaster. My company does an HDTV seminar about every 6 months and the specs and confusion keep getting worse not better, especially when companies keep saying they have the only "true" HD every other month with a new spec...

tombofsoldier

07-09-2006, 05:28 PM

yeah they totally fractured the market with the 360 by having an add-on hard drive. sony would never do anything like that.

I'm sure that if they did, they wouldn't only have a couple games that supported it, and then later release another revision of the console that didn't have a spot for the hard drive at all.

putting a digital video output on a later revision of the console doesn't facture the market, there aren't all of a suddent games you can't play because you don't have one.

the later revisions of the ps2 had progressive scan dvd playback that didn't suck, did that fracture the market from the early ps2's?

Aha, ahahahah, AHAHAHA HA HA HA! Oh that was funny, ethernet port and hard drive for the PS2 anyone? The PSX, how about the fact that the $500 doesn't have HDMI? You crack me up.

Deadend

07-09-2006, 05:35 PM

I kinda doubt MS will put out a HDMI 360. The HDCP rule goes into effect in 2012 was it? Sounds about the right time for Xbox-Whatever to hit. Thus HDCP is a non issue in a way, as who cares about your 5-6 year old 360 not being able to play the newest HD-DVDs when the 720 is out?

Ideally, Hollywood would realize HDCP was a stupid idea and say "Sorry, we're dicks." and then HDMI will just be an overpriced AV cable.

51|RandoM

07-09-2006, 06:14 PM

Uh...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Component_video

Yes you do. Unless you're confusing it with composite.

no you don't...

51|RandoM

07-09-2006, 06:15 PM

Yeah but you pretty much need one for progressive scan.

no you don't.

51|RandoM

07-09-2006, 06:17 PM

Ewww. Not really much point in that though. I mean, it'd still look good, but not crazy-better than s-video at any rate.

Depends on the quality and type of the comb filter the svideo is using. Usually, that comb filter sucks, making component clearly superior. They don't bother putting good comb filters in most tv's, since nobody in their right mind is going to go svideo instead of component unless they have no choice.

So much misinformation floating around about video nowadays. Didn't seem that common until people started worrying about HD. Seems like lots of people know more... more that is wrong.

Slack3r78

07-09-2006, 06:20 PM

I pay for beauty, just as a Hollywood starlet does, and it call comes in plastic. Mmmmm..... pretty gold cables.
Wow, that was so stupid that I feel dumber for having read it. At least you admit your reasons for buying Monster cables are retarded, I suppose.

Watership

07-09-2006, 06:34 PM

It allows HDMI ports (otherwise you wouldn't have HDMI), it just doesn't allow you to have non-standard HDMI ports. That's why the $600 PS3 has a separate HDMI port instead of just doing HDMI through the multiout.

How do you explain this then?

http://www.lik-sang.com/info.php?category=319&products_id=8540

Is that just the sites wishful thinking?

Deadend

07-09-2006, 06:36 PM

How do you explain this then?

http://www.lik-sang.com/info.php?category=319&products_id=8540

Is that just the sites wishful thinking?

Right now... I think so, no image, no information. And we are not talking about HDMI as just a cable, we mean HDCP, which is more than just a cable.

51|RandoM

07-09-2006, 06:46 PM

How do you explain this then?

http://www.lik-sang.com/info.php?category=319&products_id=8540

Is that just the sites wishful thinking?

"Showcase stunning Xbox 360 high-definition graphics with the component connection on your HDTV. Play high-quality audio with the included stereo connection or use the optical audio port for digital sound."

Their description doesn't match what an HDMI cable would be/is.

Last of the Red Hot Mamas

07-09-2006, 07:12 PM

How do you explain this then?

http://www.lik-sang.com/info.php?category=319&products_id=8540

Is that just the sites wishful thinking?

That's been up for about two months and there's still no release date, no pricing info, and no other site on the Internet offering such a product, raising the question of how Lik-Sang of all people got wind of it months before anyone else. The product description is obviously unofficial to boot (it's actually the description for the component cables (http://www.lik-sang.com/info.php?category=319&products_id=7772&)). Back when it first appeared I thought there might've been something to it, but at this point I'm convinced that, yeah, it's wishful thinking. Of course, if MS does release a 360 with integrated HDMI support, they're obviously going to sell their own MS-branded HDMI cable, so I suppose it could be real.

f1sh3r

07-09-2006, 10:10 PM

what kind of fucking moron are you?

this is literally the dumbest post i've ever seen in my life.

If you buy something, the manufacturer is now responsible to never ever add features to a later revision?

LOL. this is hilarious.

only if the manufacturer wants to sell consoles in the future. if i drop 400 bucks for a game console this week and next week it's obsolete and i'm told i need to buy a new $400 console i'll be pretty pissed. fortunately i could care less about hd-dvd so it doesn't bother me. besides my hdmi ports on my hdtv are already filled.

Bumbuliuz

07-09-2006, 10:27 PM

The only question I have is what about all of us that already have it?? Hmmmm.... ;)

Sazime

07-09-2006, 11:07 PM

Wow, that was so stupid that I feel dumber for having read it. At least you admit your reasons for buying Monster cables are retarded, I suppose.
Did I ever say I bought them? No. Did I ever? Never had to. Do I think they're pretty? Like a Las Vegas hooker. Does that mean I'll spend the money on it? Just like the hooker, no.

I do two things: get it for free, or build it. Not that hard to do, just takes time. And if you want to braid 50' of 8 pairs of cable, a fucking long time. Yeah, null modem connectiosn were great, back in the day.

rjcc

07-09-2006, 11:19 PM

only if the manufacturer wants to sell consoles in the future. if i drop 400 bucks for a game console this week and next week it's obsolete and i'm told i need to buy a new $400 console i'll be pretty pissed. fortunately i could care less about hd-dvd so it doesn't bother me. besides my hdmi ports on my hdtv are already filled.

why would you need to pay $400 for a new console? the one you have works exactly the smae as it always did, and there isn't and won't ever be a game that requires a digital video output.

Oddmaker

07-10-2006, 01:53 AM

why would you need to pay $400 for a new console? the one you have works exactly the smae as it always did, and there isn't and won't ever be a game that requires a digital video output.Nicely explained to those who dont read.

phantomhitman

07-10-2006, 04:09 AM

nice, but I am awaiting price. I have pondered waiting until next year to pick up another 360 with the new chipset and this is available.

51|RandoM

07-10-2006, 06:44 AM

nice, but I am awaiting price. I have pondered waiting until next year to pick up another 360 with the new chipset and this is available.

I'm waiting too. Not just this, but it makes sense to me to wait for more reliable hardware and an established library. Not to mention that perhaps more of my existing xbox titles will run under emulation on the 360 by then.

f1sh3r

07-10-2006, 07:29 AM

why would you need to pay $400 for a new console? the one you have works exactly the smae as it always did, and there isn't and won't ever be a game that requires a digital video output.

for some people i guess hdmi is a must have? i'm simply trying to explain why people might be upset without having to resort to calling someone a 'fucking moron'. perhaps it's wishful thinking.

Roc Ingersol

07-10-2006, 07:57 AM

Monster cables are made from Golden Calves. Clearly they're the superior choice.

Snowcone

07-10-2006, 08:40 AM

For everyone really not in the know, HDMI cables are available free if you are a customer of Time Warner. Walk into their Customer Service center and ask for one and they hand it over. They don't ask for verification that you are a customer either. I have a stack of component cables from doing this. I only have 1 HDMI cable so far though. They are gold plated and 6' or 8' long. I bet this holds true for other cable providers.

*Insert joke about getting reamed every month so the cables aren't technically free*

phantomhitman

07-10-2006, 08:52 AM

Busted_Astromech

07-10-2006, 09:40 AM

Not really, there are non-HDTV tvs with progressive scan around. Or at least there used to.
I know, but for brevity's sake I just mentioned the HDTV's. At least, I hope not many people bought EDTVs.

51|RandoM

07-10-2006, 09:48 AM

I know, but for brevity's sake I just mentioned the HDTV's. At least, I hope not many people bought EDTVs.

Oh please.

Snowcone

07-10-2006, 10:19 AM

thats interesting...where do you live at?

San Antonio, TX

fahrvergnugen

07-10-2006, 10:26 AM

Depends on the quality and type of the comb filter the svideo is using. Usually, that comb filter sucks, making component clearly superior. They don't bother putting good comb filters in most tv's, since nobody in their right mind is going to go svideo instead of component unless they have no choice.

The primary focus of a comb filter is to separate y/c, which never get encoded together in an s-video signal. S-video essentially bypasses the comb filter on the display device, because chroma & luma are already separated. Component improves on that by putting i,y,c in separate cables and running them in parallel with lots of shielding to eliminate the need for any input filtering.

The only place composite cables might look better than s-video is coming from an old cable box, an LD player, or an S-VHS VCR. If those devices have s-video out, then there's a comb filter in the playback device, and you should compare the comb filter in the display against the comb filter in the playback device to determine which one does the best job.

phantomhitman

07-10-2006, 11:58 AM

i have to rob time warner of their cables now.

Busted_Astromech

07-11-2006, 11:47 AM

Oh please.
Huh?
The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 10 characters.

fitbabits

07-11-2006, 12:00 PM

Huh?
The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 10 characters.
Don't worry, he's having one of those years what with the PS3 problems and all. :rolleyes:

Busted_Astromech

07-12-2006, 09:20 AM

Um...ok. My best guess is that he thinks I'm trying to appear smarter than I am by revising my words, but I'm honestly telling the truth: my phrasing was snappier without mentioning exceptions (and that's why I put the "pretty much" in there). When you're making a joke you can discard a certain amount of truth in order to make it funny: as long as the core of the statement is correct the humor outweighs the need for stringent adherence to reality.

And if it's in response to my bad-mouthing EDTV's, well, I thought they were a bad deal when they came out and I still do. I could certainly be wrong but with the knowledge I have that's the only reasonable conclusion.

Just trying to clear things up; I don't want any bad blood between myself and another.