LOTR: Battle for Middle Earth 2 360 Review

[bapenguin]

A RTS on a console? An RTS on a console can't work. No way. NOPE. Not gonn...what? What's that? There's an RTS on a console that's good? And the controls work? Well...at least IGN (http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/716/716469p1.html) thinks so.The control scheme is primarily based on the Xbox 360's triggers, with minimal usage of face buttons and bumpers. By pulling and holding a trigger, a sleek HUD appears on the lower left-hand side of the screen in the form of a Palantir. Naturally, during the final battle versus Sauron and Sauramon using the Palatir was an unwise thing to do, but here it serves as symbol, an icon, from which to do your business, untainted by Sauron's flaming eye. With it open, you can command a bookmarking section and access builders, heroes, and the powers menu. The on-field command system is sleek looking and relatively efficient. You can command single units, the full army, and unit types such as all archers or all cavalry. Or you can split them into teams and bookmark them, and using a central cursor, move across the entire map with relative ease. You can control the whole army by double tapping the A button, or you can control just the units on screen by using the left trigger and double tapping on a nearby unit. The good thing about the controls is that they're built for console players. They feel like they should. Nearly every action is one to three steps away, with face buttons and even bumper buttons coming into play with relative ease. EA's sharp innovation and risk pays off, for the most part. These controls don't feel forced or half-assed, and you'll pick up the whole thing in a matter of five or 10 minutes.

They give the game an 8.2.

Props to EA to taking this risk. I've yet to check this out myself but I've heard from quite a few people the control scheme works...and works well.

[Heretic Machine]

EA may very well be a destructive force in the game industry, but you can't say that they aren't innovative. This, The Sims, Spore, Ultima Online, they definetly have the ability to do great things. I probably won't pick this up though, I suck at RTS games, haven't bought one since Warcraft III.

[TRiLoGY]

I'm very interested to see how this plays with a controller and I will probably pick this up. However, it's not out in the UK until the 14th July :)

[EvilBob46]

An RTS on a console can't work? Of course it can, when it's made (or in this case, heavily modified) for consoles - instead of just cheaply ported over for a quick buck. Pikmin is example of that.

[snugglebearofdeath]

I've been waiting for this one! Maybe they can release an update (i.e. patch) that will address the frame rate issues that have been mentioned.

[51|RandoM]

Hello, the 80s are calling.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herzog_Zwei

[Kamalot]

EA may very well be a destructive force in the game industry, but you can't say that they aren't innovative. This, The Sims, Spore, Ultima Online, they definetly have the ability to do great things. I probably won't pick this up though, I suck at RTS games, haven't bought one since Warcraft III.Will Wright did the Sims and Spore. Origin did Ultima Online. EA got all of that innovation with money, they didn't develop all of that innovation themselves.

I'm impressed this game is getting good review scores, but that does not make it innovative. It means EA is good at porting things from one platform to another. It happens to be one of their strengths.

[torrefaction]

This is mine today.

[torrefaction]

Will Wright did the Sims and Spore. Origin did Ultima Online. EA got all of that innovation with money, they didn't develop all of that innovation themselves.

I'm impressed this game is getting good review scores, but that does not make it innovative. It means EA is good at porting things from one platform to another. It happens to be one of their strengths.

I feel like we're seeing a lot of good stuff from EA. They said themselves they want to invest in more original IP. It seems like they're really taking the next-gen stuff seriously...and they have the money to bring to bear to make that matter.

[Serapth]

Yeah, for all the EA hate, in the next gen, at worst a few of their sports titles have been meh to good. From my own experience NFS:MW and Fight Night R4 were both very good games... well, minus the in game ads.

[Grimgrock]

Before I drop $64 ($59 + tax), I want to know how it plays. Details would be nice.

[Heretic Machine]

Will Wright did the Sims and Spore. Origin did Ultima Online. EA got all of that innovation with money, they didn't develop all of that innovation themselves.

Maxis developed The Sims and Spore, and Maxis is owned by EA. Origin did Ultima Online, after being owned by EA for about five years. You're trying to say that Sega shouldn't be blamed for the suckitude of Sonic Riders, because it was Sonic Team that was fully responsible?

[gspot]

Yeah okay, it's good for a console. However, unless the console is control by a mouse and keyboard, it will never be better than an RTS played on a PC. Plain and Simple.

Good news for the non-PC-gamers-who-love-RTS' gamers, but that demographic shouldn't really exist since you needed a computer to play decent RTS' before now. I guess they could reach the former PC gamers who love RTS' but don't anymore because of whatever reason they have who want to get back into it but don't want to spend the cash to get their PC up to snuff gamers.

That may be too limited a demographic for the control scheme to be worth it, but here's hoping.

EDITED TO FIX ANNOYING POST WIDTH-LENGTHENING BULLSHIT. Don't do that.

[Zawath]

Still the PC version is better, mainly because again EA decided to remove half of the features the PC version had.

[Grimgrock]

After briefly reading that IGN review, I've decided the cons outweigh the pros. "Crunching slowdowns" are not something one needs in the heat of battle.

The rest is interesting. I'll wait for a demo and see. What's with the Friday release date? Why not Tuesday last?

[snugglebearofdeath]

Bingo! I haven't played it yet of course but I'm sure - as with any fps' - that the pc controls are much better. FPS controls were made decent enough *Halo* on the console and I'm sure the same can be done for an RTS. I'll take the trade off of less refined controls (slightly less - dammit!) for not having to upgrade my pc rig every 7 minutes just to enjoy a game that's designed for many different pc configurations in mind.

I found myself falling into the never ending abyss of pc gaming that really had nothing to do with gaming at all - but time consuming "tweaking" my rig to get the best resolution or highest frame rate possible, etc for each game that came along. We've all been there.

I'm now older (hopefully wiser), married, have children and no longer have time for that shit.

Give me my trusty wireless controller and I'll make do.

[gspot]

Bingo! I haven't played it yet of course but I'm sure - as with any fps' - that the pc controls are much better. FPS controls were made decent enough *Halo* on the console and I'm sure the same can be done for an RTS. I'll take the trade off of less refined controls (slightly less - dammit!) for not having to upgrade my pc rig every 7 minutes just to enjoy a game that's designed for many different pc configurations in mind.

I found myself falling into the never ending abyss of pc gaming that really had nothing to do with gaming at all - but time consuming "tweaking" my rig to get the best resolution or highest frame rate possible, etc for each game that came along. We've all been there.

I'm now older (hopefully wiser), married, have children and no longer have time for that shit.

Give me my trusty wireless controller and I'll make do.
I think you are overreacting to the drawbacks of PC gaming and understating the benefits.

[Frogleg Special]

Still the PC version is better, mainly because again EA decided to remove half of the features the PC version had.

Even if the features were intact, PC version would be better because of the control. This is like driving a car with a bike stick instead of a driving wheel. Doable but, why? If you have a good PC that is...

But some, or maybe most people don't have a good PC. Just wait til Microsoft decrees that Internet Browsing must be through Vista.

Oh there are Firefox and Opera. Bummer..

[gspot]

Even if the features were intact, PC version would be better because of the control. This is like driving a car with a bike stick instead of a driving wheel. Doable but, why? If you have a good PC that is...

But some, or maybe most people don't have a good PC. Just wait til Microsoft decrees that Internet Browsing must be through Vista.

Oh there are Firefox and Opera. Bummer..
people who don't have gaming capable PC's don't play RTS' because the controls have always sucked balls. The reaction to this game by PC gamers will be comparable to the reaction to Halo by PC gamers.

PC gamer's reaction's to console FPS' and RTS': "Ow, it burns like hygene!"

[snugglebearofdeath]

I think you are overreacting to the drawbacks of PC gaming and understating the benefits.

OK, let's compile a list of benefits to pc gaming that we can generally all agree on. (I can smell the flames coming already - lol)

I'll begin:

1) Better controls for some - but definitely not all - genres of games.
2) Usually better resolution - depending on your pc/television setup.
3) ......?

For me the current gen of consoles have taken away pc's main attraction - online and gone 1 better with integrated voice and such.

What's your take?

[torrefaction]

I think you are overreacting to the drawbacks of PC gaming and understating the benefits.

I disagree, strongly at that. I'm a musician, and a gamer. My money only goes so far. PC Gaming is ridiculous to keep up with. The 360 is now constantly getting on par or better games than computers. Of course, this can't hold forever, but I'll be more than happy with the graphics at the level they're at. I'm sick of PC gaming...I've been at it for almost 14 years, and I'm just tired of trying to keep up. I'd rather spend my money on recording gear, or a new guitar. Or hell, like I've been doing, more games ;). I've tried to play Dragonshard for months. But because I have a dual-core and an Audigy 2, and because Atari's support sucks, I'm SOL (Trust me, I know how to debug. I offered them full memory dumps...they just don't respond). I don't have to upgrade my graphics every 6 months, I don't have to worry about anything.

Besides, what's the point of your OP? We know it's not as good as a keyboard and mouse. Neither are FPS controls. But it's started to become more FUN for me to play with a controller. Because I can sit on a couch, and look at my game in Hi-Def, with the volume WAY high. You're totally missing the cinematic aspect of gaming with a 360. I don't give a good god damn if it's "not as good", as long as everyone else I'm playing uses the same controller I do.

I have a high definition TV, and a nice surround sound setup in my living room. You have no idea how nice it is to throw a disc in, and play. If I need a patch, it's automatic. Gaming should be fun, not a goddamn hassle.

[torrefaction]

Even if the features were intact, PC version would be better because of the control. This is like driving a car with a bike stick instead of a driving wheel. Doable but, why? If you have a good PC that is...

But some, or maybe most people don't have a good PC. Just wait til Microsoft decrees that Internet Browsing must be through Vista.

Oh there are Firefox and Opera. Bummer..

Oh really? The fact that they improved the graphics and sound mean nothing? Or the fact that I can relax in my living room, and enjoy a cinematic experience? I held out on PC because I could get it for the 360, and not need to upgrade my computer. On top of that, the graphics and sound are supposed to be superior to the PC.

Also, what the hell are you talking about? The video streaming stuff? I really don't get it. You've failed to make whatever point you were meaning to make in the second paragraph.

[net7runner]

goes back to playing Starcraft 64

[rein]

Gspot's post width-lengthening bullshit.


Don't do that!

[NonSoft]

It's nice to see that they have figured out a decent control scheme for the RTS genre on consoles. The only problem I see is that the PC version wasn't even very good, I can't imagine the console version is any better.

[gspot]

OK, let's compile a list of benefits to pc gaming that we can generally all agree on. (I can smell the flames coming already - lol)

I'll begin:

1) Better controls for some - but definitely not all - genres of games.
2) Usually better resolution - depending on your pc/television setup.
3) ......?

For me the current gen of consoles have taken away pc's main attraction - online and gone 1 better with integrated voice and such.

What's your take?
Allright then, let's do this. :) You know what, I think I gotta go advanced for this one...hang on-there we go.
1) Better controls? Console controls are hardly tolerable compared to PC controls. The only thing I can say that is better on a GC, PS2, or Xbox, controller are 3D and 2D platrformers. And even then: A) debatable, B)by a fucking gamepad - last controller you will ever need.
2) unless you have a projector screen TV or blew a fuckload of cash on a Plasma, HD, or LCD TV, ALWAYS better resolution.
3) 100% Backwards compatibility: I have never had to ask myself - Hey if I upgrade my video card, will I still be able to play Half-Life 1? Shit I can even play the DOS games for my old PC junior if I wanted to. Remember StarLancer? Fucking played it yesterday on my same rig.
4) Cross platform backwards compatibility: I can play ever single N64 and PS1 game on my PC, and everything ever made before that. And Microsoft is having trouble getting me a decent back catalogue for a system only one gen old? enough said
5) Patches: I don't have to play buggy games. If my games have bugs, I have confidence they will be patched. Do consoles have that luxury?
6) Mods: games are modded on computers for computers. Consoles get mods picked up by developers and no others. Couterstrike source anyone? PC's get all mods, such as NS, The Ship, TFC, Garry's MOD, DOD, The Specialists, HL2 CTF. I get more out of my games because I play PC games.
7) Upgrades: I can upgrade my PC. Yes if you want to be above and beyond everything else, you must upgrade constantly and pay thousands. However, if you just want to play, it is relatively inexpensive. Good technology comes at great prices evenutually. Nvidia's GeForce 6800 is $100 right now and will play whatever you need with grace and beauty.
8) it's a fucking computer: digitally stored content, web browsing, music, movies, videos, word processing, anything you need it to do. And since you have a gaming rig that is designed to be taxed to the fullest by the latest games, it will handle these simpler applications with greater ease than anything else you own.
9)Tech Support: build your own computer. If your processor dies, it's within warranty, send it back for a new one.
10) completely and fully customizable: anything I want, I can have. However, I don't pay for anything I don't need. I won't have to pay for HD support if I don't want it, nor 5.1 support, nor wireless support. However, If I want it it's there.
11) game specs: if my rig can't handle a certain game, I turn the res down, or turn off shadows, or turn off anti-aliasing, or whatever I need to do to play the game I want at full speed. If it chugs on a 360, it chugs forever.

Sorry snuggles, not to slam you, but whatever people put into a console, it cannot beat the versatility of a PC. ever. Unless of course it is a PC like the PS3 isn't.

[51|RandoM]

OK, let's compile a list of benefits to pc gaming that we can generally all agree on. (I can smell the flames coming already - lol)

I'll begin:

1) Better controls for some - but definitely not all - genres of games.

What's your take?

Well, since I can use an xbox360 controller on a pc, I'd have to say it(the pc) has the best controls for ALL games(till we start talking about Wii games).

somebody will bring up the 'big screen' argument, ignoring the fact that not only can a pc drive a big screen, it can drive it better than your console can.

somebody will bring up the 'couch' argument, ignoring the fact that you can play pc games on a couch just like console games.

Consoles have only one advantage in my book, and that is games exclusive to the console in question. If I could play all those games on my pc, I would.

People complain about the cost of keeping a pc upgraded. I don't see that as significantly more money than shelling out dough for 3 consoles and their accessories every generation.

[Frogleg Special]

Oh really? The fact that they improved the graphics and sound mean nothing? Or the fact that I can relax in my living room, and enjoy a cinematic experience? I held out on PC because I could get it for the 360, and not need to upgrade my computer. On top of that, the graphics and sound are supposed to be superior to the PC.


Speaking like a true mainstream gamer: Gameplay is above graphics and sounds. Again, you can have all the good graphics and all that. But what good will it be if the framerate stutters.

Oh, did I tell you Gameplay > Graphics + Sound. Welcome to the strategy genre, where gameplay matters most than glitz you have in the usual console gaming staples.


Also, what the hell are you talking about? The video streaming stuff? I really don't get it. You've failed to make whatever point you were meaning to make in the second paragraph.

Internet browser is what you see now in your PC monitor. Can Xbox browse the internet? Not that I know of. There will be a time where Microsoft shoves the need for a new PC down your throat. When will it be, I don't know. At least I am an ASP.NET programmer, so the shoving would be less painful.

[gspot]

51 Random, Frogleg Special, gspot Unite!! Defend truth, justice, and PC gaming!!!

[Mortis]

I will be checking this out for sure, it will be a while though since I am keeping a Q slot reserved for Prey.

[Frogleg Special]

51 Random, Frogleg Special, gspot Unite!! Defend truth, justice, and PC gaming!!!

I am a console gamer too (Ps2 last generation and X360 next year as soon as I have the time), but Thank God I'm not closed by the fact that I have only a single platform for gaming. If I want to play RTS, I play it in the PC. It has better control scheme, community, and history that builds for next generation for RTSes. If I want to play Tomb Raider, I'll play it in my console. Man, I wish I had a 360 already playing the last Tomb Raider.

BTW, people are bringing the ever-present couch comfortable factor. Yeah, slouching in the couch is good, but I'll take a commanding office chair in a gripping RTS where my decision must be made quickly. Especially in a competitive multiplayer match.

[snugglebearofdeath]

Allright then, let's do this. :) You know what, I think I gotta go advanced for this one...hang on-there we go.
1) Better controls? Console controls are hardly tolerable compared to PC controls. The only thing I can say that is better on a GC, PS2, or Xbox, controller are 3D and 2D platrformers. And even then: A) debatable, B)by a fucking gamepad - last controller you will ever need.
2) unless you have a projector screen TV or blew a fuckload of cash on a Plasma, HD, or LCD TV, ALWAYS better resolution.
3) 100% Backwards compatibility: I have never had to ask myself - Hey if I upgrade my video card, will I still be able to play Half-Life 1? Shit I can even play the DOS games for my old PC junior if I wanted to. Remember StarLancer? Fucking played it yesterday on my same rig.
4) Cross platform backwards compatibility: I can play ever single N64 and PS1 game on my PC, and everything ever made before that. And Microsoft is having trouble getting me a decent back catalogue for a system only one gen old? enough said
5) Patches: I don't have to play buggy games. If my games have bugs, I have confidence they will be patched. Do consoles have that luxury?
6) Mods: games are modded on computers for computers. Consoles get mods picked up by developers and no others. Couterstrike source anyone? PC's get all mods, such as NS, The Ship, TFC, Garry's MOD, DOD, The Specialists, HL2 CTF. I get more out of my games because I play PC games.
7) Upgrades: I can upgrade my PC. Yes if you want to be above and beyond everything else, you must upgrade constantly and pay thousands. However, if you just want to play, it is relatively inexpensive. Good technology comes at great prices evenutually. Nvidia's GeForce 6800 is $100 right now and will play whatever you need with grace and beauty.
8) it's a fucking computer: digitally stored content, web browsing, music, movies, videos, word processing, anything you need it to do. And since you have a gaming rig that is designed to be taxed to the fullest by the latest games, it will handle these simpler applications with greater ease than anything else you own.
9)Tech Support: build your own computer. If your processor dies, it's within warranty, send it back for a new one.
10) completely and fully customizable: anything I want, I can have. However, I don't pay for anything I don't need. I won't have to pay for HD support if I don't want it, nor 5.1 support, nor wireless support. However, If I want it it's there.
11) game specs: if my rig can't handle a certain game, I turn the res down, or turn off shadows, or turn off anti-aliasing, or whatever I need to do to play the game I want at full speed. If it chugs on a 360, it chugs forever.

Sorry snuggles, not to slam you, but whatever people put into a console, it cannot beat the versatility of a PC. ever. Unless of course it is a PC like the PS3 isn't.

No worries, I don't take it personal. And golly gee whiz, I'll surely try to "hang on".
Keep in mind - we're talking about gaming you seem to vear off towards all the things your pc can do there towards the end. I'm not looking for my 360 to maintain a spreadsheet.

1) My opinion is that a pc has better controls for a fps and rts. I have friends that were weened (sp?) on consoles however and hate trying to control anything with a keyboard and mouse and prefer the controls of the gamepad
2) I have a 56" plasma tv and home theatre and yes it is freaking sweet.
3 & 4) I loved Half Life and have never had any desire to go back and play it again any later that 2 months after completing it. Same goes with any other game. Just me. How often do you play half life nowadays - honestly?
5) Games shouldn't have bugs - but they do. That gets into the abyss I mentioned before. I'd rather play a game - not patch it. Consoles have much fewer bugs than there pc conterparts. I fear the downloadable aspect of todays consoles will cause developers to become as lazy with console games as they have been with pc games for years. PC games = install, tweak, play, patch, repeat. Period. It's almost as if this process is ingrained into the "fun" aspect of pc gamers - bizarre. "I disabled this or that and got 10 more fps!!! - woohoo!!!" Not sure how the developer factored that bit of fun in during the dev cycle.
6) If mods are worth there salt current consoles will usually get a publisher. Not always. I'm probably not hard core in that other than counter strike I've never played or been motivated to download a mod. And even then I bought it used retail - they eventually got around to getting that on xbox.
7) That's the whole point! I don't want to upgrade my pc every six months to get the best experience with the newest games. You HAVE to do that on a pc!! Please don't act like it's a privilege to do this just to play a game - you'll insult us both.
8) I'm talking about gaming. Should I start comparing how my lazy boy is more compfortable than my chair is that i sit in when on my computer? The 360 gives me that luxury but let's keep it to gaming hardware nuances ok?
9) I heard nothing but how great Microsoft was with supporting those who had trouble with their 360's when they launched. Personally, my 360 has been flawless.
10) Please see #8 and #7. (Remember we're talking about GAMING) I don't have to customize it! This to me is a huge plus.
11) My 360 will never be outmatched by a game that's made for a 360 - only by poor, sloppy programming. You can't say the same for your pc.

12) Now get back to work.....don't you have to make some more money so you can "customize" your precious in order to play upcoming games?

[MrMeatshake]

OK, let's compile a list of benefits to pc gaming that we can generally all agree on. (I can smell the flames coming already - lol)

I'll begin:

1) Better controls for some - but definitely not all - genres of games.
2) Usually better resolution - depending on your pc/television setup.
3) ......?

yeah, coz that's not been done before.

[TRiLoGY]

This is mine today.

Hey torrefaction, could you give me your opinion of the game?
I'm tempted to pick this up when it comes out in the UK :)

[torrefaction]

Speaking like a true mainstream gamer: Gameplay is above graphics and sounds. Again, you can have all the good graphics and all that. But what good will it be if the framerate stutters.

Oh, did I tell you Gameplay > Graphics + Sound. Welcome to the strategy genre, where gameplay matters most than glitz you have in the usual console gaming staples.



Internet browser is what you see now in your PC monitor. Can Xbox browse the internet? Not that I know of. There will be a time where Microsoft shoves the need for a new PC down your throat. When will it be, I don't know. At least I am an ASP.NET programmer, so the shoving would be less painful.

You must've missed my post, where I mentioned I've been a PC gamer for near 14 years now. I'm by no means a mainstream gamer, and I still play games on my PC (Battlefield 2 mostly right now, and Rise of Legends. But I go and look at the 360 demo of BF2, and the quick load times, and I start to wonder why I punish myself). But I'm at the point where I'm sick of it. Odds are (I don't know you, and I could be making assumptions. But you've already made assumptions about me, so I don't care :) ) I've been at this longer than you. I understand the pro's of PC's. But the 360 has taken a lot of those away. And the fact is, I'm sick of spending money playing catch up.

And you really don't understand the point of immersive gaming (really, why I've pursued gaming for so long. Because I saw where it could go) if you negate graphics and sound as important to gameplay. If I'm playing a shooter, my surround sound sure helps me play it better. I've never been so IMMERSED and felt like I really was part of a game since I bought a 360. The fact that I was early on the HD bandwagon helps that a lot.

Gameplay takes priority...I put down King Kong (supposedly a fantastic game) and Perfect Dark Zero both because they bored me to tears. If I don't like a game, I don't care how it looks. I just care if I'm having fun. Lately, I've had a lot of fun on the 360, without all the hassles of the PC. Patches are easy, the testing is easier. QA is more controllable on a console. Overall games are typically less buggy on a console release.

I'll probably always play PC games. Hell, I just went back to System Shock 2 not too long ago. But I'm at the point where if a game is released to the PC and the 360...I'll pick the 360. Because I don't have to deal with the hassles. Dragonshard is kinda what pushed me over the edge. My computer was TOO new, and it STILL doesn't run. I don't have to worry if my 360 is going to work with my 360 game.

[torrefaction]

Hey torrefaction, could you give me your opinion of the game?
I'm tempted to pick this up when it comes out in the UK :)

No sweat. I'll post on the forum after I give it some time tonight :).

[Kefkataran]

I editted a couple posts here to fix the addition of a horizontal scroll bar. That shit's annoying. Try to avoid it in the future, and I will fix it in whatever threads I see it in.

[bapenguin]

You guys are forgetting something. This game on the PC will control like shit. Why? Because this game was designed to work on a console.

Now the PC version of the game? I'm sure that'll control wonderfully on the PC and control like shit on the 360.

Which control scheme is better? That's all relative to your version.

[gspot]

No worries, I don't take it personal. And golly gee whiz, I'll surely try to "hang on".
Keep in mind - we're talking about gaming you seem to vear off towards all the things your pc can do there towards the end. I'm not looking for my 360 to maintain a spreadsheet.

1) My opinion is that a pc has better controls for a fps and rts. I have friends that were weened (sp?) on consoles however and hate trying to control anything with a keyboard and mouse and prefer the controls of the gamepad
2) I have a 56" plasma tv and home theatre and yes it is freaking sweet.
3 & 4) I loved Half Life and have never had any desire to go back and play it again any later that 2 months after completing it. Same goes with any other game. Just me. How often do you play half life nowadays - honestly?
5) Games shouldn't have bugs - but they do. That gets into the abyss I mentioned before. I'd rather play a game - not patch it. Consoles have much fewer bugs than there pc conterparts. I fear the downloadable aspect of todays consoles will cause developers to become as lazy with console games as they have been with pc games for years. PC games = install, tweak, play, patch, repeat. Period. It's almost as if this process is ingrained into the "fun" aspect of pc gamers - bizarre. "I disabled this or that and got 10 more fps!!! - woohoo!!!" Not sure how the developer factored that bit of fun in during the dev cycle.
6) If mods are worth there salt current consoles will usually get a publisher. Not always. I'm probably not hard core in that other than counter strike I've never played or been motivated to download a mod. And even then I bought it used retail - they eventually got around to getting that on xbox.
7) That's the whole point! I don't want to upgrade my pc every six months to get the best experience with the newest games. You HAVE to do that on a pc!! Please don't act like it's a privilege to do this just to play a game - you'll insult us both.
8) I'm talking about gaming. Should I start comparing how my lazy boy is more compfortable than my chair is that i sit in when on my computer? The 360 gives me that luxury but let's keep it to gaming hardware nuances ok?
9) I heard nothing but how great Microsoft was with supporting those who had trouble with their 360's when they launched. Personally, my 360 has been flawless.
10) Please see #8 and #7. (Remember we're talking about GAMING) I don't have to customize it! This to me is a huge plus.
11) My 360 will never be outmatched by a game that's made for a 360 - only by poor, sloppy programming. You can't say the same for your pc.

12) Now get back to work.....don't you have to make some more money so you can "customize" your precious in order to play upcoming games?
I play Half-Life once a month (truly one of the greatest ever made).
Console games do not have less bugs than PC games. They have the same amount of bugs. If a game is released for 360 and PC, the PC version will be patched as all games need to be patched regardless of whether than can be or not. If you have proof otherwise, show it. You obviously have no knowledge of the modding community or any of it's achievements, so that part of your post is just going to be labeled "troll."
I haven't upgraded in 2 years, I still play top of the line games. I have seen the requirements for crysis 3, my compy can handle it without upgrade. If consoles are made for only gaming, than why is your beloved 360 want to be a computer? live anywhere, downloadable content, online gaming, and people are requesting a mouse and web browser. Too me, that sounds like a crippled computer that you can't upgrade. And your plasma TV was more expensive than 3 of my computers, just to see your games in as high quality as my 17" LCD I bought on Black friday for $150. Congrats, you just got ripped off. Your friends preferences are subjective, so you can't use them. You can only use facts.

Console gaming has it's place, and PC gaming will always rule.

[gspot]

You guys are forgetting something. This game on the PC will control like shit. Why? Because this game was designed to work on a console.

Now the PC version of the game? I'm sure that'll control wonderfully on the PC and control like shit on the 360.

Which control scheme is better? That's all relative to your version.
Isn't the console version dumbed down so the controls don't stab players in the face so much? I think that qualifies the PC as better, but that's just me.

[DoubleUranium]

Clearly everyone must conform to the exact same opinion for gaming. There shall be only vanilla. So please, keep trying to convince each other that your opinion is the right one for their life.

[torrefaction]

I play Half-Life once a month (truly one of the greatest ever made).
Console games do not have less bugs than PC games. They have the same amount of bugs. If a game is released for 360 and PC, the PC version will be patched as all games need to be patched regardless of whether than can be or not. If you have proof otherwise, show it. You obviously have no knowledge of the modding community or any of it's achievements, so that part of your post is just going to be labeled "troll."
I haven't upgraded in 2 years, I still play top of the line games. I have seen the requirements for crysis 3, my compy can handle it without upgrade. If consoles are made for only gaming, than why is your beloved 360 want to be a computer? live anywhere, downloadable content, online gaming, and people are requesting a mouse and web browser. Too me, that sounds like a crippled computer that you can't upgrade. And your plasma TV was more expensive than 3 of my computers, just to see your games in as high quality as my 17" LCD I bought on Black friday for $150. Congrats, you just got ripped off. Your friends preferences are subjective, so you can't use them. You can only use facts.


I've come to the conclusion that your just a pc-fanboy troll. If you weren't so caught with your blinders, that you can't accept that there are advantages that disappeared with the 360. The 360 will automatically patch a game when the disc is put in the machine. Yeah...I'm sure your 17" LCD holds up real well next to his HD Plasma :rolleyes:

You're really KNOCKING the 360 for downloadable content? And online gaming? You're practically arguing this for me. Online gaming is MUCH better than on the PC. There's no arguing that, and this is from a long time PC gamer. I had a kickass Rogue Spear clan back in the day :p You really don't understand development if you call it a crippled computer. It's a computer that has NO lowest common denominator. The developers can develop directly to the hardware (Which, by the way, is a triple-core machine).


Troll+++

[bapenguin]

Isn't the console version dumbed down so the controls don't stab players in the face so much? I think that qualifies the PC as better, but that's just me.

Yes the PC version is better for PC Gamers. Not so much so for console gamers though.

[snugglebearofdeath]

I play Half-Life once a month (truly one of the greatest ever made).
Console games do not have less bugs than PC games. They have the same amount of bugs. If a game is released for 360 and PC, the PC version will be patched as all games need to be patched regardless of whether than can be or not. If you have proof otherwise, show it. You obviously have no knowledge of the modding community or any of it's achievements, so that part of your post is just going to be labeled "troll."
I haven't upgraded in 2 years, I still play top of the line games. I have seen the requirements for crysis 3, my compy can handle it without upgrade. If consoles are made for only gaming, than why is your beloved 360 want to be a computer? live anywhere, downloadable content, online gaming, and people are requesting a mouse and web browser. Too me, that sounds like a crippled computer that you can't upgrade. And your plasma TV was more expensive than 3 of my computers, just to see your games in as high quality as my 17" LCD I bought on Black friday for $150. Congrats, you just got ripped off. Your friends preferences are subjective, so you can't use them. You can only use facts.

Console gaming has it's place, and PC gaming will always rule.

I love both pc and console games. I'm just voicing why I go more console nowadays.

PC games are buggier than console - fact. When is the last time you purchased a pc game without later manually installing some kind of patch/fix to better enhance your gameplay experience? Like I said I see this trend increasing for console games as well due to online connectivity but I've never consciously had to install a patch for super mario/halo/need for speed/madden etc if done behind the scenes through xbox live then that's another feather in the cap for the 360. I'm not knocking your love of pc game maintenence. More power to you.
You're right I do have very little knowledge of the modding community and I don't recall bashing it in any way. Guess I'm a troll for being ignorant of all things modding. Please refrain from name calling. It only shows I'm getting under your skin - not my intention.
I've never requested a keyboard/mouse for the 360 - although I agree they offer better control for some games. I just would not care for balancing all that in my lap or coffee table for my particular living room interaction wants.
My plasma does more than show my console games. I just left that off since we are only talking about games. If I had paid as dearly for a 56 inch "console display" then you would be right about me being ripped off but that's not the case is it? Do I sit here and ask you how well your 17" monitor provides an awesome home theatre experience? Exactly.
IMHO I don't like dialing back a games graphical bells and whistles in any way to get a decent frame rate or playability. I feel like I'm getting jipped - crazy I know but true. To me it's like going to a movie and having to close one eye and cover one ear in order to see the whole screen. I just don't have to worry about that kind of thing with a console.

You're right. Half Life is one of the best games ever. I rarely replay games myself.

Facts? Facts? This is the internet. Who needs facts?

Console games do not rule. PC games do not rule. Good games rule.

[tombofsoldier]

The Wii is console system where RTS games might finally be playable. Seeing Supreme Commander on it would be most interesting.

[tombofsoldier]

Oh yes, and torrefaction: I have the pc version, my friend got the 360 version yesterday (he works at a game store so, yeah). The graphics are definitley better for the pc, as is the sound, and oh yeah my pc is set up in my living room.

[gspot]

I wasn't arguing for the 360, I was saying the improvements that a 360 offers all come from PC gaming. I have been doing for years what they are offering as new. There is a thread on EvAv right now of requested feature for the 360, and they do include and mouse, keyboard and browser (some disagree on the browser because of H4X0R5). This trend suggests that the 360 is moving closer and closer to being a computer, the only exception being the lack of the ability to upgrade at the gamers own pace, instead gamers would upgrade when Microsoft decides it's time for you to pay more money.
I still don't see the disadvantages of Patches. Just because console games aren't patched doesn't mean they don't have bugs. They are just unfixed bugs. And guess what! if you want to play PC games unpatched, that is available too. Just don't patch it.
I love console gaming, I really do. I used to exclusivly console game. But looking at both side by side deciding which is better and more cost effective, I have to say the PC. Not because I am a fan-boy, because it's just fucking true. Yes console gaming is adapting positive attributes of PC gaming, but it is no where near the kind of capable PC's are yet.
Graphics BTW, are good enough for me right now. I have said this before, but if every game forever had graphics like HL2, I wouldn't complain. gameplay is where it's at. So if the only thing that consoles have over PC's is better graphics (and better resolution if your TV cost $2000-$5000), than what does the 360 or the PS3 have too offer me? Nintendo has the right idea though. I'll have that the day it launches.

I didn't say PC games rule. PC gaming rules. Meaning, the good games that rule, rule more when played on a PC.

[mig]

Just to chime in here snuggles, I'm in the same boat as you at this point. I stopped upgrading my pc about one and a half years ago. I can't do the "new proc, new board, new RAM, new video card song and dance I've been doing for the past decade. Dual core procs? SLI Directx 10? No thanks. I don't see the value in shoveling more money down the abyss that is PC gaming. The 360 on the other hand does a nice job and without any headaches that usually involves tweaking games, tweaking drivers. And dagnabit, my PC AV experience can't hold a candle to the HT AV one.

[Bumbuliuz]

I liked Nfs:Mw in the begining but after awhile I started to hate the game. And the achivements system on the 360 was just bull. I like the police part and the chases, but the physics are just wrong. The cars feel like they are too heavy and handle so bad.

[TheBrainKills]

Since I play my PC games and console games on the same 50" monitor, I have a choice of what version I wish to pick up and I think I will get this for the 360. Much like I got the 360 GRAW version. I too am tired of wondering whether the game will run... or if widescreen support is there, but then again I am not a 20 year old that enjoys editing my autoexec.bat and config.sys to squeeze that 20k of extra ram just to get the dam game to run anymore. I just want to relax and play games now.

[snugglebearofdeath]

Just to chime in here snuggles, I'm in the same boat as you at this point. I stopped upgrading my pc about one and a half years ago. I can't do the "new proc, new board, new RAM, new video card song and dance I've been doing for the past decade. Dual core procs? SLI Directx 10? No thanks. I don't see the value in shoveling more money down the abyss that is PC gaming. The 360 on the other hand does a nice job and without any headaches that usually involves tweaking games, tweaking drivers. And dagnabit, my PC AV experience can't hold a candle to the HT AV one.

Exactly. I guess I'm just no longer hard core. Give me a game. Let me play the game. End.

[51|RandoM]

You guys are forgetting something. This game on the PC will control like shit. Why? Because this game was designed to work on a console.



WTF are you smoking, it'll control exactly the same after I plug the xbox360 controller into the PC.

Try plugging keyboard and mouse into your 360---AND finding a 360 game that supports keyboard and mouse.

[Cubfan]

I found myself falling into the never ending abyss of pc gaming that really had nothing to do with gaming at all - but time consuming "tweaking" my rig to get the best resolution or highest frame rate possible, etc for each game that came along. We've all been there.

I'm now older (hopefully wiser), married, have children and no longer have time for that shit.

Give me my trusty wireless controller and I'll make do.

This statement totally applies to myself. Well I don't have kids, but everything else.

[snugglebearofdeath]

I wasn't arguing for the 360, I was saying the improvements that a 360 offers all come from PC gaming. I have been doing for years what they are offering as new. There is a thread on EvAv right now of requested feature for the 360, and they do include and mouse, keyboard and browser (some disagree on the browser because of H4X0R5). This trend suggests that the 360 is moving closer and closer to being a computer, the only exception being the lack of the ability to upgrade at the gamers own pace, instead gamers would upgrade when Microsoft decides it's time for you to pay more money.
I still don't see the disadvantages of Patches. Just because console games aren't patched doesn't mean they don't have bugs. They are just unfixed bugs. And guess what! if you want to play PC games unpatched, that is available too. Just don't patch it.
I love console gaming, I really do. I used to exclusivly console game. But looking at both side by side deciding which is better and more cost effective, I have to say the PC. Not because I am a fan-boy, because it's just fucking true. Yes console gaming is adapting positive attributes of PC gaming, but it is no where near the kind of capable PC's are yet.
Graphics BTW, are good enough for me right now. I have said this before, but if every game forever had graphics like HL2, I wouldn't complain. gameplay is where it's at. So if the only thing that consoles have over PC's is better graphics (and better resolution if your TV cost $2000-$5000), than what does the 360 or the PS3 have too offer me? Nintendo has the right idea though. I'll have that the day it launches.

I didn't say PC games rule. PC gaming rules. Meaning, the good games that rule, rule more when played on a PC.

I am truely speechless. PC gaming is more cost effective?!?!? Only if you buy a big screen plasma exlusively for gaming with every console life cycle.

I am slowly backing away now.

Slowly.

S l o w l y.

No sudden movements............

[gspot]

I am truely speechless. PC gaming is more cost effective?!?!? Only if you buy a big screen plasma exlusively for gaming with every console life cycle.

I am slowly backing away now.

Slowly.

S l o w l y.

No sudden movements............
PC gaming isn't cost effective if you upgrade every 3 months and only use the computer for gaming. However, when all uses are applied, plus the versatility and control of all games are factored in, PC's are worth it.

[torrefaction]

PC gaming isn't cost effective if you upgrade every 3 months and only use the computer for gaming. However, when all uses are applied, plus the versatility and control of all games are factored in, PC's are worth it.

So, as a gaming device, PC's AREN'T cost effective.

Unlock consoles.

[torrefaction]

WTF are you smoking, it'll control exactly the same after I plug the xbox360 controller into the PC.

Try plugging keyboard and mouse into your 360---AND finding a 360 game that supports keyboard and mouse.

No. It won't. He's saying (I think) you are all a bunch of idiots for coming into a 360 game thread, and bitching about the game...that's already been released for the PC. This thread is for people who care about the damn 360 version of the game.

So STOP with the fucking PS/Console debate. Jesus Christ.

Doesn't the internet ever get bored of this shit, and just want to stop working?

[TRiLoGY]

No sweat. I'll post on the forum after I give it some time tonight :).

Cool, thanks :)

[thenefariousone]

A general purpose machine versus a dedicated single purpose machine...the oldest argument in the book.

If the argument is strictly about gaming, then it's no contest.

Out of the box - consoles provide more games, better quality games, a larger variety of games, better overall control, better user interface, and a lower overall cost (cost of entry, maintenance and upgrade costs) than pcs.

A closed platform, where one has time to optimize software for it, will always lead to easier, quicker, and better software development.

After all - that' what they are designed for.

It's not that big a deal - anymore than the fact that an ipod does a better job of playing mp3 files than an all-in-one media player device.

I like pc gaming as much as the next pc gamer, but several gaming genres:

racing
flight simulation
adventure gaming
fighting games
sports games

simply don't work well with a pc and mouse. The number of genres that don't work really well on a console controller is what - 2 - fps, rts? With efforts like EA's Battle for Middle Earth, and new controlling methods like what will be available with the wii controller, those problems are being dealt with.


In addition - there's no need to buy a '50 tv for a 360. You can use your existing one, or use your computer monitor.

[Jack B]

I disagree, strongly at that. I'm a musician, and a gamer. My money only goes so far. PC Gaming is ridiculous to keep up with. The 360 is now constantly getting on par or better games than computers. Of course, this can't hold forever, but I'll be more than happy with the graphics at the level they're at. I'm sick of PC gaming...I've been at it for almost 14 years, and I'm just tired of trying to keep up. I'd rather spend my money on recording gear, or a new guitar. Or hell, like I've been doing, more games ;). I've tried to play Dragonshard for months. But because I have a dual-core and an Audigy 2, and because Atari's support sucks, I'm SOL (Trust me, I know how to debug. I offered them full memory dumps...they just don't respond). I don't have to upgrade my graphics every 6 months, I don't have to worry about anything.

Besides, what's the point of your OP? We know it's not as good as a keyboard and mouse. Neither are FPS controls. But it's started to become more FUN for me to play with a controller. Because I can sit on a couch, and look at my game in Hi-Def, with the volume WAY high. You're totally missing the cinematic aspect of gaming with a 360. I don't give a good god damn if it's "not as good", as long as everyone else I'm playing uses the same controller I do.

I have a high definition TV, and a nice surround sound setup in my living room. You have no idea how nice it is to throw a disc in, and play. If I need a patch, it's automatic. Gaming should be fun, not a goddamn hassle.

Torrefaction, I should just copy your post for all further PC vs Console gaming posts. I'm in the same boat. Spent years on the PC. Now I sit on my sofa/lazyboy with a 55" big screen and really nice surround sound. I like my easy updates and I love the multiplayer community with voice across all games.

Is mouse/keyboard more accurate? Yep, but do I want to sit at a desk to get that benefit? Nope... :( Plus, like you said, it doesn't matter as long as everyone else has the same controller...

I think everyone's situation is different. If everyone had our setup for console gaming, then more might feel this way (not all of course). Some console owners don't have the big HDTV/Dolby 5.1 setups. Some have a huge Computer monitor. Some don't have a hefty PC as it's gotten older. Some do. Some don't have broadband to their console. Maybe they broadband, but don't have an ethernet to their living room and don't know how to setup a wireless router. Maybe some only have one TV to share with the whole family and the PC is theirs alone to use whenever.

I wouldn't feel as excited about console gaming if it weren't for Live voice online with a huge big screen and great sound. Plus, I have this is my bedroom with a full sofa, loveseat, leather chair setup, so no competition for the living room TV. Not many probably have that setup. If it was disconnected with a 25" standard TV, I might lean to PC gaming...

A lot depends on your situation.

To each his own, I suppose.

[Phades]

Hello, the 80s are calling.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herzog_Zwei

Every time someone brings up Herzog Zwei it makes me happy. Where's my sequel Sega?

[Kefkataran]

So, hey, guys, which do you think is better for gaming, PC or console?

Cause I mean, you know, there's a question that never gets old.

[torrefaction]

So, hey, guys, which do you think is better for gaming, PC or console?

Cause I mean, you know, there's a question that never gets old.

I'm about to get ready for my very own two minutes of hate.

Your picture will be on the wall!

[Magnanimous Gnome]

I still don't get why people are making such a big fuss over this game. It's hardly the first RTS that "works" on a console - Pikmin anyone?

I'm not pretentious enough to bring up Herzog Zwei. Oops. :p

[torrefaction]

I still don't get why people are making such a big fuss over this game. It's hardly the first RTS that "works" on a console - Pikmin anyone?

I'm not pretentious enough to bring up Herzog Zwei. Oops. :p

It is the first really high profile game to do so though. Also the first of the next-gen, and the first with a really decent way of implementing the controls to fit the "classic" RTS gameplay.

Having never played Pikmin, I don't know if it meets the last description :). Regardless, my first 2 points still stand

[dena miscreant]

I'm really wondering if I should get this. Is this a good RTS to introduce a non-RTS player to RTS?

Or should I get back to Civ IV or Rise of Legends?

[torrefaction]

I'm really wondering if I should get this. Is this a good RTS to introduce a non-RTS player to RTS?

Or should I get back to Civ IV or Rise of Legends?

I'll let ya know tonight :). The review said almost exactly that, but it is IGN.

[dena miscreant]

Exactly. I prefer to act like IGN does not exist.

[Intruder]

So far my impressions.

Noticable slowdown in several places for no aparent reason.

Muddy looking Graphics, just doesn't look as sharp as i thought it would, but still pretty,

GREAt animations. Trolls bitch slapping each other during idle is great :)

Really good control scheme, keep aspects like grouping, waypoints, battlelines

Units have cool abilities, tell Trolls to go uproot trees and use them as maces or chuck goblins at the enemy.

Fun gameplay, keeps it interesting with multiple objectives and situations that arrise.

Overall from my 3 or so hours playing so far i am happy with the purchace, and i have yet to touch the multiplayer.

[holysin]

Does anyone who has played both the PC version and the 360 version have any comments?

Framerate problems is what's holding me back, I didn't expect them on the 360... But, then again, it could be said it's just a PC port.

[bapenguin]

WTF are you smoking, it'll control exactly the same after I plug the xbox360 controller into the PC.

No it won't. The versions of the game are completely different, they are tweaked for their respective control schemes. The PC version doesn't have the XBox 360 control scheme.

[LogainAblar]

Just when they buy Mythic and you thought they couldn't get worse they do something like this....

and totally redeem themselves!

In all seriousness that is a pretty impressive feat. Who would've ever thought it could work?

[Intruder]

I thought it would honestly turn out to be a flaming pile of poo. Infact it is the exact opposite, it's more like savory flaming baked Alaska. Yummy!

I'll be on tonight, msg me and we shall play a few matches if you like.

[torrefaction]

I thought it would honestly turn out to be a flaming pile of poo. Infact it is the exact opposite, it's more like savory flaming baked Alaska. Yummy!

I'll be on tonight, msg me and we shall play a few matches if you like.

AGH! Missed the fucking train! I don't know if I can get it now.

[MSUStud911]

IGN has posted its video review (http://media.xbox360.ign.com/media/794/794413/vids_1.html) for BFME2 now if anyone cares to watch.

[Paranoia]

I didn't say PC games rule. PC gaming rules. Meaning, the good games that rule, rule more when played on a PC.

Slouching to a computer monitor that is likely to be smaller than your typical house tv sets with keyboard & mouse as your controllers, how the hell that makes games played on PC "rule more" baffles me.

[Kefkataran]

I'm about to get ready for my very own two minutes of hate.

Save it for the podcast!

[RestlessAvenger]

I spent about an hour and a half or so, going through the tutorials and the first level, and I have to say, they really did manage to make the control system work pretty well in translating the RTS genre. There is certainly a learning curve, but it's mostly just getting used to it. It feels pretty natural. So far it seems like a lot of fun, and if I didn't have to work tommorow I think I would keep playing. I can't wait to hop on Live and see how the Multiplayer runs tommorow night. If anyone wants to join me send me a friend invite.
I am a bit pissed that there are only 705 Points for the game. Maybe thats a sign that they are planning on adding an additional single player campaign down the line to bump up the points.

[Kefkataran]

Only 705 points? That's total bullshit! :(

[holysin]

Slouching to a computer monitor that is likely to be smaller than your typical house tv sets with keyboard & mouse as your controllers, how the hell that makes games played on PC "rule more" baffles me.

I think both pc and consoles rule, but a PC does have the advantage of being infinitely better for RTS (BFME 2 might work well on the 360, but no one would be able to hold their own against a pc player, if it was posssible), and the screen might be smaller, but you get to play in a higher resolution. 1600x1200 is becoming the norm if you have a good rig, and I love it.

I wish they'd release a demo for BFME2 on the 360, I'm still not convinced.

[snugglebearofdeath]

WTF is up with the frame rate? I've only played about 30 minutes (last night) but was immediately put off by the poor frame rate. When trying to move my cursor there would be a delay then it would jump across screen. This is even with nothing much happening on screen. I soooo want this game to work (for the purpose of guaranteeing C&C 3 coming to the 360 if nothing else) because I love a good RTS. I had heard about the frame rate issues and expected them only in the huge battle scenes but the opening cut scenes are choppy along with the game from the get go.

Of course 30 minutes is just a glimpse I know so I'm definitely going to dedicate some time this weekend.

The controls themselves seemed fine. It's just the frame rate that concerns me.

[Mac]

Maxis developed The Sims and Spore, and Maxis is owned by EA. Origin did Ultima Online, after being owned by EA for about five years. You're trying to say that Sega shouldn't be blamed for the suckitude of Sonic Riders, because it was Sonic Team that was fully responsible?

Fucking owned.

[RestlessAvenger]

I noticed a bit of... jumpiness during the tutorial mission, but I hadn't really noticed it in the actual single player game. It "felt" more like the jumpiness that I experienced in Oblivion when it was trying to load an area on the fly.

[Magnanimous Gnome]

Frame rate issues? Yikes, that instantly kills an RTS IMHO.

[torrefaction]

Well, I've been having a lot of fun with this. It took me a bit too stop thinking like it was a PC RTS, but I put a few hours in last night, and had a damn good time (online and off). The slowdown was there, but fairly rare, and not a game killer IMO. It's funny too, because the slowdown doesn't seem to happy neccesarily when it SHOULD. I had a HUGE battle last night that went without a hiccup.

The controls are great, and I'm starting to really get the hang of them. The campaign itself is pretty fun so far, although I missed an objective because of my overzealous bombardment ships :D.

Overall, I think I'd recommend this. I'm hoping they get a patch out to deal with whatever is causing the slowdown...but it's definitely not ruining the game for me. The controls impressed me. I've been a little skeptical in spite of the good reviews, but they won me over.