Natural Selection Source needs your help!

[Liquidize105]

Charlie "Flayra" Cleveland (http://www.charliecleveland.com/), ex-professional developer turned mod author, is in a bit of in a bind.

You see, he is what I call a subsistence developer - someone who relies on donations from the community to survive. His Natural Selection mod (http://www.unknownworlds.com/ns/) for Half-Life, though widely acclaimed for being innovative, is a late-comer to the HL modding scene; in 2005, just when the HL2 modding scene is catching fire and all the big mods are making the transition to Source, his website/donation system gets a facelift from hacker(s); and one look at the modding scene right now can tell you that his isn't the only FPS/RTS hybrid mod around anymore.

So what's a hungry developer gotta do to survive? Why, produce a casual game of course!



http://img419.imageshack.us/img419/362/thumbzensudokuscreenshot17ho.jpg (http://www.zenofsudoku.com/?affiliate=uwe)


The game is called the Zen of Sudoku (http://www.zenofsudoku.com/?affiliate=uwe) and is available now (as of 2 hours ago!) as a trial download and full purchase for $12.95.

If you're interested in directly supporting NS and Unknown Worlds, I know of no better way than to try and buy this game, and especially, to spread the word about it. Tell your friends. Post on forums. Tell your parents and their friends (they'll love it, seriously). There's even an in-game "Tell a Friend" feature! We keep the vast majority of the funds on each sale, and are attempting to stay off the big icky portals to do so. If this game does well, we will surely be able to begin real work on Natural Selection: Source. Hopefully that's incentive enough. :)
That's it. Pay Unknown Worlds Entertainment (http://www.unknownworlds.com/) a visit for the full story.

[MasterEvilAce]

That's cool. I'm all for NS:Source becoming a reality. Damn hackers can't leave anything alone.

[kid cabelgo]

I played NS for a bit, but I had such a hard time figuring out what to do that I never got into it. I don't blame the game though, just my own laziness for not going online and looking up instructions.

NS: source seems like it would be great though.

I'll check out this sudoku game

[MasterEvilAce]

lol, yes. NS definitely has a learning curve. Especially as aliens.

[GoblinToe]

I absolutely loved Natural Selection! This and Firearms were my favorite HL mods. Too bad HL2 uses Steam, which I refuse to install on my system ever again.

Natural Selection was done incredibly well. The base building, two unique sides to play on, the atmopshere! It was the only mod I ever played for HL1 where people actually seemed to work together as a team.

[Dabombpizza]

That's because if you didn't, you lost immediately!

NS was fantastic, but sucked when your commander sucked. Then the aliens just walked right over you.

[Heretic Machine]

I've been hoping they'd actually get on the ball and do the port to source so I could actually play the game (I only own HL2 and HL: Source), but I fear Sudoku and it's evil logic puzzles.

Keep those devil puzzles away from me. I watched Hellraiser, I know what happens when you solve a puzzle delivered from the depths of hell.

[bapenguin]

He picked a good game to raise money with. Of course...it could also get lost in the crowd of other Sodoku games out there. It looks like it tries to distinguish itself at least.

[Lord Dongkey]

Sudoku in Brain Age sucked me in last night... 45 minutes later, I finished my 2nd puzzle and passed out...

Evil little game. I may have to buy this Zen thing for the wife.

[easi]

Why can't we just go back to the old days of the HL1 scene where all you needed was 1 cd key and some hdd space? Greed is ruining online gaming.

As far as NS goes, I liked it when I got to slaughter the aliens but it was no fun when they used tactics. Remove all that complicated crap and I might give it a second glance.

[thecrazyd]

lol, yes. NS definitely has a learning curve. Especially as aliens.
Really? I always thought the aliens were way easier to play with.

[MasterEvilAce]

What are you rambling about, easi? This update has NOTHING to do with cd-keys.

Really? I always thought the aliens were way easier to play with.
In my eyes, aside from the commander role, marines is very easy to figure out. Aliens however, it takes more time to figure out what upgrades do for you, how evolving works, the different chambers (and the limitations), etc.

I remember when I first started playing it, I had no idea how to build a specific chamber as a gorge. It would never work for me. I later figured it out. I can't remember what I was doing wrong, but the right click menu isn't so intelligent, in my opinion. It's been changed since then, but I still don't like it. Actually, I'm against a LOT of changes that happened since 1.04 (I think it was). Aliens were PERFECT. they just needed to make the marines better, and fix exploits. Well they did fix the exploits, but at the same time they nerfed the aliens.. and they kept nerfing the aliens.. even though the MARINES just needed to be fixed. So they improved the marines and nerfed the aliens some more.. Now their goal of 10 minute games becomes an hour minimum with a good group of people. I couldn't get into the newer versions. It just didn't feel fun anymore.

[Wyrm]

I love natural selection. Unfortunately, I hate Sudoku. If he made a little shooter of some kind, then we could talk.

[StoneGut]

NS is a great mod I'll certantially help with NS:S any way I can.

[Heretic Machine]

Actually, I'm against a LOT of changes that happened since 1.04 (I think it was). Aliens were PERFECT. they just needed to make the marines better, and fix exploits. Well they did fix the exploits, but at the same time they nerfed the aliens.. and they kept nerfing the aliens.. even though the MARINES just needed to be fixed. So they improved the marines and nerfed the aliens some more.. Now their goal of 10 minute games becomes an hour minimum with a good group of people. I couldn't get into the newer versions. It just didn't feel fun anymore.

Sounds like the Cryptic (http://www.cityofheroes.com/) design philosophy :p

[Beelzebud]

I remember NS. Back when it was called Gloom, and then Gloom II...

[agentgray]

"There are currently 5 users on the path to enlightenment"

Does that mean only 5 people have bought it?

UPDATE: I jut spent the last 20 mnnutes playing some games. Very cool. Worth the $13. Simplistic.

[a|A]

I love NS.
But I hate soduku, Im so torn.

[gspot]

Why can't we just go back to the old days of the HL1 scene where all you needed was 1 cd key and some hdd space? Greed is ruining online gaming.

As far as NS goes, I liked it when I got to slaughter the aliens but it was no fun when they used tactics. Remove all that complicated crap and I might give it a second glance.
yes that's right, remove anything that makes NS special and innovative and one of the greatest multiplayer games of all time, then turn it into a everyday FPS with waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay last gen graphics where people get to play either aliens or marines. That's a great idea easi. You should work for EA games, they'd hire you in a second.

And yeah, greed is what they are doing, not making it possible to have exclusively digital content streamed directly to gamers computers avoiding all the bullshit of buying games from gamestop or best buy, and then hunting for a no-cd crack if you want to not have to switch cd's everytime you want play a different game. I can understand people not liking the fact that steam MUST be running for one to play valve games (it doesn't bother me, but I think it should be a choice just the same), but to say they do it out of greed is baseless and ignorant.

God damn dude! Just WTF are you really thinking while you are typing?

[gspot]

Aliens were PERFECT. they just needed to make the marines better, and fix exploits. Well they did fix the exploits, but at the same time they nerfed the aliens.. and they kept nerfing the aliens.. even though the MARINES just needed to be fixed. So they improved the marines and nerfed the aliens some more.. Now their goal of 10 minute games becomes an hour minimum with a good group of people. I couldn't get into the newer versions. It just didn't feel fun anymore.

Hey, I don't expect everyone to look as hard as I do at the game, but I think your analysis is a tad off. The original NS (talking 1.0-2.0 here) was designed to have very long games. The structures costed almost twice as much, and resource accumulation was much slower. Thus creating long, 3 hour games. People requested that the game be shortened so that more people would be willing to play. Back then, if the teams were completely stacked and it was a total crush, the game lasted an hour. Nowadays (3.0 beta - 3.1.3), in the same situation, games last 10 minutes. A really good game of NS can last an hour or more. That allows for more people to get interested rather than get caught in a 3 hour game and say 'well fuck that.'
My freinds and I also have been going back to previous versions to remember what it was like. We have been playing since 2.0 and we all agreed that neither side was ever more powerful. The constant nerfs were to shorten the game while keeping balance. Check out the changelogs on those versions, the amount of tweaking is rather staggering.

[MasterEvilAce]

gspot: Games in 1.04 were QUICK. Sure, I remember a fair share of 1 hour ++ games. But most of the games ended at the beginning.. depending on whether aliens or marines rushed, and whether or not the rush succeeded or not. The majority of games were actually 30minutes long. That I played, anyways.

In the newer versions (3.0) I havn't played any game that was actually 10 minutes long. They've all been fairly long, from what I've seen. and drawn out and a bit boring, as well. I hated COMBAT at first, but I actually enjoy combat more, for some reason. Although combat in my mind is still too CS/DoD/etc, original NS just doesn't do much for me, sadly. We probably have completely different experiences with the game, but I did enjoy 1.04 a lot more. The games that didn't last over an hour were great, sometimes it was even fun to play for three hours, heh. According to what was being said on the forums, the game was tweaked for clanmatches and such, and it's very balanced supposedly. But on pubs, the games just aren't fun. Not everyone will obey you, and the game needs to compensate for that.

And yeah, I do remember reading changelogs.. and there are a LOT. but what I was saying earlier, I felt the aliens were fun as hellto play, and definitely felt right, but the marines were the ones who couldn't.. "keep up" with the aliens. Instead of bringing the marines up to speed, they constantly nerfed and changed around the aliens. Maybe i'm aliens-biased, but that's what I felt. I loved being an alien in that game for all you could do. I definitely liked being a gorge as well. In 1.04 the way the resources were, you could easily have fades when the second hive hit. and that was FUN. Marines like i said, couldn't keep up against that with the way their tech was. Also it was fun being an alien because they could expand quickly and build forests of towers.. which as a marine it was also fun because you could blow'em all up with grenades. but in the new NS, building is fairly slow, and people sorta hate going gorge.. it's pretty much required, now.

[Shifteh]

I really like Natural Selection. It's a great game if you can get a tonne of friends on at once. My only gripe with Natural Selection is the see-saw balancing.

Aliens are overpowered because of Onos, so...
-Onos do less damage
-Onos have less health
-Onos Cost more

oh and we'll add:

-Marines get cheaper guns
-Marine guns do more damage
-Marines get faster upgrades

Then, woah, all of a sudden the Marines are overpowered! Who would have guessed...

[MasterEvilAce]

Shifteh: That was my experience.

[archon]

heh, no kidding Beelzebud. I want me some Gloom for Doom 3 or Quake 4 or whatever, already.

[gspot]

MasterEvilAce: We have had entirely different experiences with the game. I love almost all classes of alien (except lerk, because I am no good at it). I have had problems in pub servers as well, but rarely. Usually noobs play in trainer servers with bots, and pros play in pub servers, and my experience has been great games. However, I will admit that LAN's are always better when playing NS. I am probably what one would call an NS fanboy. This thread isn't big enough to go back and forth and hash out specific's, but give it another try sometime on a decent server or at a LAN. I usually drift between 3 different servers, and from what I have seen, lots of great commanders with different and unique strategies as well as aliens who love to gorge, lerk, and fade all the same. Maybe you had bad luck on your first try with 3.0.

also, gorges can hotkey chambers now, and the heath spray heals the player and does damage to nearby marines, and bile bomb is available on the 2nd hive. These really are great times to be a gorge :)

[Captain Awesome]

And yeah, greed is what they are doing, not making it possible to have exclusively digital content streamed directly to gamers computers avoiding all the bullshit of buying games from gamestop or best buy, and then hunting for a no-cd crack if you want to not have to switch cd's everytime you want play a different game. I can understand people not liking the fact that steam MUST be running for one to play valve games (it doesn't bother me, but I think it should be a choice just the same), but to say they do it out of greed is baseless and ignorant.



I was about to reply until I saw your excellent post, well said. :)

[Captain Awesome]

heh, no kidding Beelzebud. I want me some Gloom for Doom 3 or Quake 4 or whatever, already.

The mod scene for D3 and Q4 is almost close to non-existent as ever. You might aswell wait for the DNF mod scene :D

[Evil Avatar]

The mod scene for D3 and Q4 is almost close to non-existent as ever. You might aswell wait for the DNF mod scene :D

That is what happens when you release games with broken 4-player multiplayer.

[archon]

The mod scene for D3 and Q4 is almost close to non-existent as ever. You might aswell wait for the DNF mod scene :D

I figured as much. Maybe they can port their junk over to Prey that they have done (if they're even still working on the damn project anyway). If Prey even has a long-term multiplayer potential, that is.

[Trickyicky]

I loved NS. Few games have given me such joy and sense of accomplishment. Well, I guess it is pretty unique to have multiplayer game that so heavily (and usually successfully) relies on teamwork. It's a beautiful thing.

I'm just now getting into Sudoku with Brain Age, so i'll keep this in mind if I want some more puzzles.

[Heretic Machine]

Most modding scenes are pretty dead compared to the days of Q3/UT/Half-life. Lots of mods get started, most of them are bad ideas to begin with, the handful that aren't mostly end up dead after the concept stages, then a select few make it to a beta release or something along those lines. Maybe one out of a hundred actually gets to a full release. I guess better graphics really could kill the modding world, I always figured the tools would evolve along with the graphics so that the devs could keep up.

[51|RandoM]

The mod scenes die a little bit more with each generation of games. Why? Because what it takes in time, effort, and software to create a decent mod seems to increase by an order of magnitude each generation.

These aren't the days where you could fire up worldcraft and build a great level in a week.

Another change is that there are LOTS of multiplayer games/engines that you can choose from, so your supporters/audience are split.

[Shifteh]

Not to mention that support is way down, and engines are simply harder to mod now.

Half-Life/Quake 3 were pretty much the last modable engines. Due to Steam, Source is absolutely retarded to mod on now. Out of five people in my mod team, 3 could get the Source SDK to even work (due to steam errors), let alone mod efficiently on.

[Liquidize105]

Modding is alive and well. There'll always be tweak mods, balance mods, and graphics mods, etc. Small addon mods for Oblivion-type games are a good example of fast turnouts. The process of building TC's, or total conversions, have stretched out, without a doubt, but that doesn't mean anything really. Mods carry over from engine to engine.

As for NS, Aliens are inherently weaker than Marine if you think about it. If anything, Aliens should be "stronger" in teamwork on the client side.

[gspot]

As for NS, Aliens are inherently weaker than Marine if you think about it. If anything, Aliens should be "stronger" in teamwork on the client side.

I really don't see how people can claim either side, there are just as many people who believe that aliens are a stronger race (not necessarily more powerful, but have more advantages) than marines. It's totally subjective. If you think about it, the two different races are almost too different compare, and they are as equally strong (using entirely different strengths) as one can hope.

[Liquidize105]

It's totally subjective. If you think about it, the two different races are almost too different compare.
If you think about the way each side deals damage, you'll see that marines have way more options than aliens.

[gspot]

If you think about the way each side deals damage, you'll see that marines have way more options than aliens.
That's completely inaccurate. I must know how you came to that conclusion.