Ninety-Nine Nights to NOT Require Hard Drive *UPDATE* [Archive]

donkeydrop

06-26-2006, 05:28 PM

According to this Xbox.com listing (http://www.xbox.com/en-CA/Games/n/nnn/), Phantagram's Ninety-Nine Nights will be the third Xbox 360 title to require the hard drive.

Editor's Note: This may just be a typo. None of the other websites for N3 shows the HD required. That includes the US Listing (http://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/n/nnn/) as the above one is for Canada.

Update: The Gamerscore Blog (http://gamerscoreblog.com/team/archive/2006/06/27/535981.aspx) (MS PR) has confirmed this is wrong and was merely a typo.

StGeorge

06-26-2006, 05:46 PM

Core owners: Screwed. Next title to require HD: Mass Effect, you heard it here first.

bone_matrix

06-26-2006, 05:48 PM

See, Sony isn't the only company that lies. Miscrosoft just does it less often right now.

Back on topic: If I didn't buy a HDD seperately from my core unit, I'd be a bit upset right now. But really, its such a better value than a memory card, who wouldn't buy it?

(I know, I know, those who could only find a core and no HDD, but really, if you bought a memory card, you probably have enough money to buy a HDD too.)

TheHulk

06-26-2006, 05:48 PM

What was the first?

Ludoc

06-26-2006, 05:50 PM

Core owners: Screwed. Next title to require HD: Mass Effect, you heard it here first.

How so? Is suddenly impossible to upgrade your 360 by buying a hard drive? Oh right, no it isn't.

KamaItachi

06-26-2006, 06:01 PM

What was the first?

There was a football management game out in the Eu that required some huge amount of memory to save and required an HDD. Also Final Fantasy XI, so NNN is technically the 3rd.

I guess they need the HDD for caching. The saves themselves don't take up much space. The Xbox site just lists Hard Drive Enhanced as a feature.

Not that you're really missing much by not being able to play this game on the basic system.

jeffbax

06-26-2006, 06:02 PM

Friends don't let friends buy Core systems anyway.

Mr.Green

06-26-2006, 06:07 PM

What was the first?
Final Fantasy XXIVXXIVIVIXX?

Friends don't let friends buy Core systems anyway.
Good one. :D

niakori

06-26-2006, 06:37 PM

I guess none of you are remembering the 64 expand thingamgig I had to literally hunt down to play my perfect dark original. Upgrading is good for you.

Zechs01

06-26-2006, 06:45 PM

Lol looks like people with a core are gonna have to pay $99 to be able to play it so they got ripped off by the typical microsoft.

Paranoia

06-26-2006, 07:06 PM

Note to self : Avoid retard pack at all cost.

Citizen Philip

06-26-2006, 07:07 PM

Refresh: Didn't they say they wouldn't? Well.. not that anyone really believed that...

except for little Timmy who saved up his paperroute money for a year and half and could old afford a core system: and now.. he can't play his games.

Poor Timmy.

jacktion

06-26-2006, 07:10 PM

Wow, that is so dirty. Microsoft is so dirty. They promised that no 360 game would ever need the hard drive to play a game. Then they sold the crappy core pack to suckers all across the land just so they could twist the truth and say their console only cost $299. Now they are making games that require the hard drive so people have to go spend more than they would have if they just would have gotten the premium pack. That is dirty. They have no honor. Microsoft is like that guy who asks to borrow money and you know you are never going to get it back. No honor.

Jack Random

06-26-2006, 07:12 PM

Did the Japanese version have this requirement as well?

Hmm, Maybe since this is an import, and they have no core in japan...

i dunno

motor

06-26-2006, 07:13 PM

bapenguin

06-26-2006, 07:17 PM

What's funny is going to be listening to what all of us premium owners are going to say when microsoft releases a 300GB drive and we have to throw all of our old ones out the window.

"Man I wish I had bought a core!"

What I want to know is how they are going to let us transfer our content whent he upgrade DOES happen. Fuckers.

StGeorge

06-26-2006, 07:26 PM

How so? Is suddenly impossible to upgrade your 360 by buying a hard drive? Oh right, no it isn't.

Microsoft guaranteed that no game would require a hard drive, making the 360 Core a "great choice" for those who want to "save money". Since MS no longer enforces this, more and more developers will opt to require the HD for better performance (especially when PS3 comes out, which comes standard with HD, so any cross-platform game will require the HD). So not much a choice is it?

Bad idea MS, just dump the Core version now.

TrackZero

06-26-2006, 07:29 PM

Good stuff. Though I was under the impression that MS was phasing out/down their core systems. At least from what I've seen, it's almost premiums everywhere these days.

JediSanf

06-26-2006, 07:48 PM

Fine, it requires the hard drive. Most of us expected this and few are surprised. However, now that a AAA title requires the hard drive the Core should be dumped (hehe, "core dump"). And the 360 no longer costs $299. It's a $399 system, end of story.

Sparky

06-26-2006, 07:48 PM

Oh, retailers have *plenty* of core units. Trust me. There is only so many we can put in the stores at a time. Also (brace yourself), they don't so much sell.

ElPresidente

06-26-2006, 07:49 PM

Microsoft guaranteed that no game would require a hard drive, making the 360 Core a "great choice" for those who want to "save money". Since MS no longer enforces this, more and more developers will opt to require the HD for better performance (especially when PS3 comes out, which comes standard with HD, so any cross-platform game will require the HD). So not much a choice is it?

Bad idea MS, just dump the Core version now.

I think it is going to be much more dependant on how many core systems were sold.

I'm guessing the answer is somewhere between fuck all and none, otherwise you simply wouldn't relax such a rule in the way that has happened.

TrackZero

06-26-2006, 07:51 PM

(hehe, "core dump").

Ah, humour. Fantastic. Thank you sir!

TrackZero

06-26-2006, 07:52 PM

I'm guessing the answer is somewhere between fuck all and none, otherwise you simply wouldn't relax such a rule in the way that has happened.

Heh, true. I remember when it was still difficult to find a 360. But everywhere had cores for awhile. I kept having to tell them "no, I want a REAL 360, get me one with a harddrive!".

eth3rton

06-26-2006, 08:06 PM

Lol looks like people with a core are gonna have to pay $99 to be able to play it so they got ripped off by the typical microsoft.

At least they don't have to pay $600 to play games.... ;)

KamaItachi

06-26-2006, 08:14 PM

Did the Japanese version have this requirement as well?

Hmm, Maybe since this is an import, and they have no core in japan...

i dunno

You're right, there was no core released in Japan. The reason supposedly was that MS Japan's strategy relied pretty heavily on downloads, which is ironic considering how fucking threadbare their marketplace is. I think there's probably no more than 2 Japan only demos and a few gamerpics.

Not sure if the Japanese version is HD only, but I could try it tonight when I get home.

Really, I think MS should have just bit the bullet and recanted on the "no game will require a HD" as the very fact they were claiming they had FFXI on their lineup pretty much confirmed that was bullshit.

TrackZero

06-26-2006, 08:21 PM

You're right, there was no core released in Japan. The reason supposedly was that MS Japan's strategy relied pretty heavily on downloads, which is ironic considering how fucking threadbare their marketplace is. I think there's probably no more than 2 Japan only demos and a few gamerpics.

Not sure if the Japanese version is HD only, but I could try it tonight when I get home.

Really, I think MS should have just bit the bullet and recanted on the "no game will require a HD" as the very fact they were claiming they had FFXI on their lineup pretty much confirmed that was bullshit.

Well, there's a bit more Japan marketplace content than that. But there's definitely been no new downloads for some time (except Love FOOTBALL). ;)

Though I notice they have the ad for Bullet Witch up, for a July release. While they took the KARAS video down. ;(

I'm definitely waiting to see some Japan only content getting out there. Prehaps because deep down, if there's enough of it, I can warrant getting a Japan region 360 to play those games. Heh.

*Legion*

06-26-2006, 08:23 PM

Promise: 100% of Xbox 360 games will work without a hard drive
Actual truth: 99% of Xbox 360 games will work without a hard drive

Yep, damn those ridiculous Microsoft liars.

Admittedly, it would be a lot worse if the Core system wasn't so easily upgraded.

Then they sold the crappy core pack to suckers all across the land just so they could twist the truth and say their console only cost $299. Now they are making games that require the hard drive so people have to go spend more than they would have if they just would have gotten the premium pack.

Please report to the nearest 3rd grade math class.

Premium 360: $399
Core 360 + HDD = $299 + $99 = $398

They get $1 off! :) Seriously, though, it's the same price - they do not have to "spend more than they would have if they just would have gotten the premium pack."

TrackZero

06-26-2006, 08:33 PM

Promise: 100% of Xbox 360 games will work without a hard drive
Actual truth: 99% of Xbox 360 games will work without a hard drive

Yep, damn those ridiculous Microsoft liars.

Admittedly, it would be a lot worse if the Core system wasn't so easily upgraded.

Please report to the nearest 3rd grade math class.

Premium 360: $399
Core 360 + HDD = $299 + $99 = $398

They get $1 off! :) Seriously, though, it's the same price - they do not have to "spend more than they would have if they just would have gotten the premium pack."

Well, aside from the wireless controller and what have you that comes with the premium version.

I still appreciate that the guy at my local EB who's known me for years was like "No man, I can't sell you a core, it just wouldn't be right. It's a rip off compared to the full one. You gotta wait a week until we have another premium in stock, I'll keep it aside for you.". And he followed through with said promise. Goes to show not all EB reps are complete dicks.

Edit: To note, this was also when I was desperate to get a 360, and he actually KEPT me from buying a core.

KamaItachi

06-26-2006, 08:35 PM

Well, there's a bit more Japan marketplace content than that. But there's definitely been no new downloads for some time (except Love FOOTBALL). ;)

Though I notice they have the ad for Bullet Witch up, for a July release. While they took the KARAS video down. ;(

I'm definitely waiting to see some Japan only content getting out there. Prehaps because deep down, if there's enough of it, I can warrant getting a Japan region 360 to play those games. Heh.

There was a lot of stuff promised, but so far, not really much delivered.

There was a cool looking shooter supposed to come out on Live that still hasn't appeared. I'm not even expecting Japan exclusive games, just something. I'll probably pick up some JP points before I leave, but I'm not expecting much in the way of exclusive or early jp released content.

I heard that the Love FOOTBALL demo was region locked as well. I might give it a whirl sometime, but I'm not much of a football fan overall.

I hope a demo for Bulletwitch comes out sometime soon. If the reviews were good I was pretty sure I was gonna pick it up, but it comes out 2 days after I leave for good :(

Ludoc

06-26-2006, 08:38 PM

TrackZero

06-26-2006, 09:01 PM

There was a lot of stuff promised, but so far, not really much delivered.

There was a cool looking shooter supposed to come out on Live that still hasn't appeared. I'm not even expecting Japan exclusive games, just something. I'll probably pick up some JP points before I leave, but I'm not expecting much in the way of exclusive or early jp released content.

I heard that the Love FOOTBALL demo was region locked as well. I might give it a whirl sometime, but I'm not much of a football fan overall.

I hope a demo for Bulletwitch comes out sometime soon. If the reviews were good I was pretty sure I was gonna pick it up, but it comes out 2 days after I leave for good :(

Oh, dude, I was so pissed that the fucking Love FOOTBALL demo was region locked. But I'm also thinking about Everyparty and that wrestling title, I figure, fuck it. I may want to grab the Japan region system.

Ouch, that sucks. Are you moving back home to Australia?

donkeydrop

06-26-2006, 09:14 PM

Oh noes!!!! Facts!!! The trolls have been foiled.

Honestly complaining about the hard drive seems, to me at least, to be equivalent to complaining you need extra controllers to play multiplayer.
Except you're already out $40 for the memory card (you DO save right?), $40 for the component cable, $30 for the headset, $10 for an ethernet cable, and you're still stuck with the wired controller. So there's your facts: $119 more and you still don't have as good a system.

Zechs01

06-26-2006, 09:27 PM

At least they don't have to pay $600 to play games.... ;)
and you have 15000 BC titles, region free, free online, 60gb HDD (Using standard 2.5" Notebook HDD you can upgrade easily), Wireless, motion sensing controller, HDMI 1.3, Blu Ray, and PSP connectivity..... hmmm did i leave anything out? Then theres the Wii which has Zelda, Samus, and Mario.

theguido

06-26-2006, 09:27 PM

Oh noes!!!! Facts!!! The trolls have been foiled.

Honestly complaining about the hard drive seems, to me at least, to be equivalent to complaining you need extra controllers to play multiplayer.

The fact that they even sold the Core was dirty stuff, especially considering you had to buy a memory card anyways. Also, charging $99 for a 20gig hard drive is ludicrous. And even then it's not as good of a price as a Premium consider the HD cable and the Wireless controller.

Now, the users who were promised that they could play all their games just got boned, hard. And this won't be the last time. Say what you will about the differences between the $499 and $599 PS3's, but at least neither of them is gimped.

theguido

06-26-2006, 09:29 PM

At least they don't have to pay $600 to play games.... ;)

The $499 system will work perfectly well for most people. If you have the money to spend on an HDTV that does 1080p via HDMI, the extra $100 shouldn't be a big deal.

Zechs01

06-26-2006, 09:33 PM

Now, the users who were promised that they could play all their games just got boned, hard. And this won't be the last time. Say what you will about the differences between the $499 and $599 PS3's, but at least neither of them is gimped.
besides one not having HDMI and memory ports but thats the only real big difference

theguido

06-26-2006, 09:37 PM

besides one not having HDMI and memory ports but thats the only real big difference

Yes, I realize that is the case. But there is a difference between having a system that you can't save anything on without an $40 accessory out of the box and one that can only do up to 1080i but is otherwise fine. That's why the Core is gimped and the $499 PS3 isn't.

mightbe

06-26-2006, 09:40 PM

60gb HDD (Using standard 2.5" Notebook HDD you can upgrade easily)

Just so's people know, this voids your warantee and Microsoft will not repair any 360's that have used 3rd party off-the-shelf hard drives by cracking the HDD case and swapping them.

The representatives I have spoken with in the X360 service department have assured me that the 360 system keeps track of the size of the drives and some sort of ID of the drives that have been plugged into it. Using this they are able to tell if there has been any swapping going on.

TrackZero

06-26-2006, 09:45 PM

and you have 15000 BC titles, region free, free online, 60gb HDD (Using standard 2.5" Notebook HDD you can upgrade easily), Wireless, motion sensing controller, HDMI 1.3, Blu Ray, and PSP connectivity..... hmmm did i leave anything out? Then theres the Wii which has Zelda, Samus, and Mario.

Of course, all those BC titles are avaible on a PS2 for considerably cheaper. Region Free. Free online. 60GB HDD which is next to useless for it's given capabilities. Wireless controllers are available. Motion sensing...for what? HDMI 1.3 (99.5% of the population says "whoopdie do!") and PSP connectivity (great, I guess that means my PSP is good for something). No, you didn't leave anything out besides the $600 wasted.

The Wii60 is already quite established, but I don't believe the PS3 is part of it.

TrackZero

06-26-2006, 09:51 PM

Yes, I realize that is the case. But there is a difference between having a system that you can't save anything on without an $40 accessory out of the box and one that can only do up to 1080i but is otherwise fine. That's why the Core is gimped and the $499 PS3 isn't.

Yes, because we all have 1080p sets just laying around to plug into (nor will we for the next 5 years, despite how much Sony would like it to be so).

mightbe

06-26-2006, 09:52 PM

Seriously, If you know anybody with an extra, I'll pay for shipping ;P

theguido

06-26-2006, 10:04 PM

Yes, because we all have 1080p sets just laying around to plug into (nor will we for the next 5 years, despite how much Sony would like it to be so).

I'm not sure of your point here, actually. The fact that 1080p capable sets aren't abundant is precisely the reason the $499 system is feasible--1080p is basically the only reason to even mess with the $599 version.

Zechs01

06-26-2006, 10:07 PM

Just so's people know, this voids your warantee and Microsoft will not repair any 360's that have used 3rd party off-the-shelf hard drives by cracking the HDD case and swapping them.
not sure but just so people who i meant the PS3 used standard HDD was not talking about modding 360

KamaItachi

06-26-2006, 10:11 PM

Oh, dude, I was so pissed that the fucking Love FOOTBALL demo was region locked. But I'm also thinking about Everyparty and that wrestling title, I figure, fuck it. I may want to grab the Japan region system.

Ouch, that sucks. Are you moving back home to Australia?

Heh, the only time I've ever heard anyone mention the game at all is when they're complaining about that demo.

AS for the Japanese exclusives... Every Party, Wrestle Kingdom, that Majhonng one and the convience store simulator are all there and they don't seem to be much good. Maybe they'll pick up a little further down the line as the box picks up steam at the snail's pace its going at.

Honestly at this point, the only reason I'd suggest getting a JP 360 is the fact you can order Asian games in english for cheap online.

So yeah, moving back to Aus (after a month in the U.K.) at the end of next month. I think I also miss out on the DS Opera browser by a day too. On the plus side I should be able to get my hands on a black DS Lite.

Zechs01

06-26-2006, 10:12 PM

Of course, all those BC titles are avaible on a PS2 for considerably cheaper. Region Free. Free online. 60GB HDD which is next to useless for it's given capabilities. Wireless controllers are available. Motion sensing...for what? HDMI 1.3 (99.5% of the population says "whoopdie do!") and PSP connectivity (great, I guess that means my PSP is good for something). No, you didn't leave anything out besides the $600 wasted.

The Wii60 is already quite established, but I don't believe the PS3 is part of it.
I did leave something out.... Blu Ray one disc can hold what 60gb so games can be huge and immersive.

Ludoc

06-26-2006, 10:12 PM

Jeff Foxworth voice: (because just like him this won't be funny)

1) If you go to the store, pick up a core, walk across the aisle, see a 64meg memory card for $40 beside a twenty gig $100 and choose the memory card you might be a tool.

2) Having choosen the hard drive if you do not then put the core and hard drive back and pick up a premium system, to get the free stuff packed in, you might be a tool.

3) If you don't know the difference between cores and premiums but will still plop down $299-$399 you might be a tool.

I have no sympathy for tools. I'll admit that sometimes I'm a tool. *Looks over TV atgame collection and shakes fist in direction of PDZ/Pariah.* I just don't think people should blame MS for being uninformed consumers. If you want someone to blame for that look in a mirror.

Ludoc

06-26-2006, 10:15 PM

I did leave something out.... Blu Ray one disc can hold what 60gb so games can be huge and immersive.

DVDs aren't being filled yet so how will having a larger storage medium help games become more immersive? More nused disk space doesnt translate into more immersion.

RevGored

06-26-2006, 10:37 PM

I'm glad that you require the hard drive to play this game, because pretty much any game on a console that has a hard drive that's pretty much a mandatory thing should actually use the hard drive.

motor

06-26-2006, 10:48 PM

The real question is, will Halo 3 require a hard-drive? We should do a poll.

Ludoc

06-26-2006, 11:00 PM

The real question is, will Halo 3 require a hard-drive? We should do a poll.

My prediction: Yes

But it will lauch at the same time as the new larger hardrive and the Special Uber Halo 360 collectors' Pack (tm) will include the game, a face plate and a Halo 3 branded hardrive.

Evil Avnovice

06-26-2006, 11:59 PM

That's just stupid. Is it really too much trouble to make the game compatible with memory cards for those who own "Core" systems, or was it just one of those things that was thrown to the wayside in preparation for the "Black Tuesday" launch?

thecrazyd

06-27-2006, 12:03 AM

I did leave something out.... Blu Ray one disc can hold what 60gb so games can be huge and immersive.
Unlike, say, Oblivion? The disk size is pretty much irrelevant.

Heretic Machine

06-27-2006, 12:12 AM

I predicted this months in advance of the 360 launch.

92miata

06-27-2006, 12:17 AM

hey all. stop ripping the core, it was a GREAT MOVIE.....:)

Achilles

06-27-2006, 02:12 AM

Just to toss this out there. Would you rather not get this game just so Microsoft can stick to what it said before the system came out? I wouldn't. But besides that, this is a port from a region where everybody has a hard drive, it makes sense that it would require the hard drive.and you have 15000 BC titles, region free, free online, 60gb HDD (Using standard 2.5" Notebook HDD you can upgrade easily), Wireless, motion sensing controller, HDMI 1.3, Blu Ray, and PSP connectivity..... hmmm did i leave anything out?Whoa the PS3's already out? Oh you're working off what Sony has said it'll do, and then comparing it to a system that's already out. Things change. This 'all games will work without the hard drive' thing changed.

KamaItachi

06-27-2006, 04:17 AM

So I tried the game out this evening with no HDD, worked no problem. Had a look at the size of the saved files, 60k for settings, 6ok for the saved games.

I guess they've been working on this for the Western release. Pity they got the whole HDD requirement ass-backwards by forcing it on the market that didn't have it as standard.

Rylos

06-27-2006, 05:44 AM

Oddly enough, on the listing for the game on the Australian (http://www.xbox.com/en-AU/games/n/nnn/) Xbox website, they don't have it listed as 'Hard Drive Required', only as 'Hard Drive Enhanced'.

Goronmon

06-27-2006, 06:43 AM

I did leave something out.... Blu Ray one disc can hold what 60gb so games can be huge and immersive.ROFL! Damn, thats some funny shit there. Usually shills try not to be so obvious. ;)

bapenguin

06-27-2006, 08:27 AM

This is odd.

The link in the original post is to the canadian website. Here is the US one (http://www.xbox.com/en-US/games/n/nnn/). Notice something?

My guess is the HD Required is a typo.

absolut taco

06-27-2006, 09:30 AM

absolut taco

06-27-2006, 09:32 AM

Durendil

06-27-2006, 10:05 AM

It is a typo. N3 does *not* require a HD.

Zechs01

06-27-2006, 10:59 AM

DVDs aren't being filled yet so how will having a larger storage medium help games become more immersive? More nused disk space doesnt translate into more immersion.
Have you ever played Star Ocean or Onimusha 4?

WTF? Are you the Sony version of Reanimated?
no I like xbox but, I dont like microsoft.

TrackZero

06-27-2006, 12:37 PM

I did leave something out.... Blu Ray one disc can hold what 60gb so games can be huge and immersive.

Heh. Yes, I'm absolutely sure that's what the extra space will be going to. Immersion. (Strangly that's what's been removed, with the rumble taken out.)

All it's going to mean is JRPGs have more space to waste on pre-rendered movie sequences.

Mr.Condescension

06-27-2006, 03:09 PM

Heh. Yes, I'm absolutely sure that's what the extra space will be going to. Immersion. (Strangly that's what's been removed, with the rumble taken out.)

All it's going to mean is JRPGs have more space to waste on pre-rendered movie sequences.

I find it odd that many developers have lamented the size of DVD-9 and have said they need a larger storage medium, yet posters at Evil Avatar think they know more than the people who actually make the games. Very humorous. Nevermind the fact that at the end of a console life cycle games have classically used ~100x system ram in storage space. So for the xbox 360 that would be 51.2GB, right? Frankly, I'm going to believe the devs on this one. But hey, maybe you know more.

bapenguin

06-27-2006, 03:11 PM

Mr.Condescension

06-27-2006, 03:17 PM

mightbe

06-27-2006, 03:32 PM

I hear NNN requires the heart of an orphan to operate properly.

TrackZero

06-27-2006, 04:42 PM

Starbreeze
Epic
Enchanted Arms Developer (yes, they fit the game on a DVD eventually)
Team Ninja (biased)
Vivendi Universal
Electronic Arts
Square
Ubisoft
F1 '06 Devs
Guerilla Games (biased)

Quotes with sources referenced can be found here:

http://www.ps3forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=24089&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

http://boardsus.playstation.com/playstation/board/message?board.id=ps3media&message.id=4342

I'm sorry, I wasn't aware I had to give a fuck what a developer "wants". I'm the consumer. It's MY fucking money, period. If I'd prefer that, god forbid, they might have to print their game on 2 discs and it'll be cheaper for me, then that's what I'll be paying for. Whenever developers decide to pay for all of us to have blu-ray/HD-DVD drives in our home, for free, then we can give a shit about what they'd prefer.

Also, I love how your sources are all Playstation related links. ;) (Because noone else would care.)

Johan

06-27-2006, 04:43 PM

http://www.ps3forums.com/viewtopic.php?t=24089&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

http://boardsus.playstation.com/playstation/board/message?board.id=ps3media&message.id=4342

Wow..that hurts pretty badly (even though these are both PlayStation links...perhaps some slight bias?) It'll be interesting to see how it pans out in a year or so.

Achilles

06-27-2006, 04:57 PM

I find it odd that many developers have lamented the size of DVD-9 and have said they need a larger storage medium, yet posters at Evil Avatar think they know more than the people who actually make the games. Very humorous. Nevermind the fact that at the end of a console life cycle games have classically used ~100x system ram in storage space. So for the xbox 360 that would be 51.2GB, right? Frankly, I'm going to believe the devs on this one. But hey, maybe you know more.Games will begin coming out on multiple DVDs as early as next year, or possibly this year when Blue Dragon gets released. The storage space problem is far from fictional but it is a manageable problem. Nobody disparaged Final Fantasy VII, VIII, IX, Xenogears, Valkyrie Profile, etc. for coming out on more than one disc, and I doubt people will be bothered by it now.

Mr.Condescension

06-27-2006, 05:24 PM

Also, I love how your sources are all Playstation related links. ;) (Because noone else would care.)

They're links to quotes and sources for those quotes. None originated from the playstation boards.

Mr.Condescension

06-27-2006, 05:37 PM

Games will begin coming out on multiple DVDs as early as next year, or possibly this year when Blue Dragon gets released. The storage space problem is far from fictional but it is a manageable problem. Nobody disparaged Final Fantasy VII, VIII, IX, Xenogears, Valkyrie Profile, etc. for coming out on more than one disc, and I doubt people will be bothered by it now.

I agree that linear games, such as the main FF line, MGS, etc. will have less of a problem with switching discs, but what about non-linear games like GTA (possibly assassin's creed - they talk about freely traveling between 3 major cities), etc.? What if FFXIII plays more like FFX-2: mission based and free-roaming? In those instances you could be forced to switch back and forth between discs many, many times.

I think assuming that no game in the future, no matter what its design, is going to not have a problem with disc space isn't sensible. What if a new type of gameplay is designed that we haven't thought of that requires 10GB to be one one disc? I'd hate to not be able to play it at all. If even some devs are upset with DVD-9 it seems like a problem to me. How big a problem? I don't know yet. I think people outright dismissing it as a problem for the simple reason that it's convenient in an argument to do so is foolish.

Achilles

06-27-2006, 05:48 PM

I agree that linear games, such as the main FF line, MGS, etc. will have less of a problem with switching discs, but what about non-linear games like GTA (possibly assassin's creed - they talk about freely traveling between 3 major cities), etc.? What if FFXIII plays more like FFX-2: mission based and free-roaming? In those instances you could be forced to switch back and forth between discs many, many times.Free-roaming games will have a tougher time of it. If you recall Baldur's Gate 2 did just what you're describing, where if you wanted to go to one town you had to put in disc 6, or 4 or whatever. It was a pain and that's where Blu-Ray will see an advantage, other than the obvious FMV advantage.

I still think with smart design and use of the Hard Drive the problems with it will be kept to a minimum, but it does need to be part of a non-linear game's design if it's too large to fit on one disc.

JediSanf

06-28-2006, 11:43 AM

Free-roaming games will have a tougher time of it. If you recall Baldur's Gate 2 did just what you're describing, where if you wanted to go to one town you had to put in disc 6, or 4 or whatever. It was a pain and that's where Blu-Ray will see an advantage, other than the obvious FMV advantage.

I still think with smart design and use of the Hard Drive the problems with it will be kept to a minimum, but it does need to be part of a non-linear game's design if it's too large to fit on one disc.

I agree but "use of the Hard Drive is key". If Microsoft won't let devs bank on HD caching then smart design gets you nowhere. NNN may or may not be considered AAA but there will be one eventually, that either needs the hard drive or is gimped without it. I don't understand why Microsoft doesn't just recall the unsold Cores slap some hardrives on them and then redebut the "New, Better, Harder Core" at Christmas with a $350 price tag.

motor

06-28-2006, 10:16 PM

Free-roaming games will have a tougher time of it. If you recall Baldur's Gate 2 did just what you're describing, where if you wanted to go to one town you had to put in disc 6, or 4 or whatever. It was a pain and that's where Blu-Ray will see an advantage, other than the obvious FMV advantage.

I still think with smart design and use of the Hard Drive the problems with it will be kept to a minimum, but it does need to be part of a non-linear game's design if it's too large to fit on one disc.

One other thing to consider is that you can often reduce load times byu having multiple copies of the same content on the disk. It is much faster to hae a single file that contains you textures/models for the whole level then to skip around the disk for each asset. This applies to free roaming games as well, since they are really loading adjacent levels while you run around in the current one. Now, I don't do that low-level stuff so much anymore so I forget the difference in transfer rate of the 360 and PS3 drives, but having the space to do multiple copies can really be a big speed boost.