Critical Update: You need a rootkit.

[Citizen Philip]

What do I find at the top of my news column on my Google homepage? The Windows Genuine Spyware Advantage (http://news.com.com/Fighting+Microsofts+piracy+check/2100-1029_3-6085853.html?tag=nl)? There is something odd going on with your Windows Genuine Advantage software, here are some details.

From the article:

Microsoft advanced its antipiracy program in November last year, when it started pushing out a tool called WGA Notifications alongside its security updates. The tool has been sent millions of Windows users in a number of countries. In April, the U.S. joined the list of covered territories, as did the United Kingdom, Malaysia, Australia and New Zealand.

...

In past weeks, reports have emerged that the WGA Notifications software connects to a Microsoft server each time the PC is started--something Microsoft didn't previously disclose. Also, as it has become clear that the tool isn't a finished product, millions of Windows users may unwittingly be subjects in a trial run for a Microsoft antipiracy program.
I believe a company has a right to protect and profit from it's work, but not underhandedly, not secretly and definitely not on unsecured, non-disclosed software features: especially those masqueraded around as a critical update.

[bapenguin]

oh...nice. Way to be hypocritical MS.

[Citizen Philip]

The interesting part of the article is how the original release was listed as optional: within weeks of it's release it was bypassed. Shortly after WGA was bypassed a 'critical update' that included a new install of WGA with a fix for the bypass was released.

Subsequentially, there are now numerous ways to bypass WGA. Funny? Sad?

[Siraris]

The interesting part of the article is how the original release was listed as optional: within weeks of it's release it was bypassed. Shortly after WGA was bypassed a 'critical update' that included a new install of WGA with a fix for the bypass was released.

Subsequentially, there are now numerous ways to bypass WGA. Funny? Sad?

I believe there are ways to crack WGA, but Microsoft patches it frequently so it will only last with upkeep, and then you need to find the new crack.

[Jack B]

I've been using the Microsoft Spyware beta for quite a long time. It's still free and seems to work really well. They're probably spying on me. Oh, well I've given up on the thought of privacy anyway.

[The Letter 3]

I used to fight all of the crap that Microsoft does, but I stopped caring with WGA. As long as I can get to Evil Avatar, what more could I want?

[Klade]

Its rather odd.. There are god knows how many people with cracked copies of Windows XP. So if microsoft stops offering them updates (which is what WGA does), then all those people become vulnerable to security flaws. If it just affected these people Microsoft really shouldn't care. But these flaws are almost certianly going to be used by worms. So what Microsoft is doing in actuality, is creating millions of drone computers that can distribute worms.

[Wasson_]

But it IS a critical update. without it...1337 h4xx0rs would be tearing through the interweb like...a retard in a popsickle factory...

:rolleyes:

fuck it, I give up. This won't cause my computer to catch fire, will it?

[Citizen Philip]

Its rather odd.. There are god knows how many people with cracked copies of Windows XP. So if microsoft stops offering them updates (which is what WGA does), then all those people become vulnerable to security flaws. If it just affected these people Microsoft really shouldn't care. But these flaws are almost certianly going to be used by worms. So what Microsoft is doing in actuality, is creating millions of drone computers that can distribute worms.

For a short period of time if your copy of Windows could not be verified you could not get any updates: however, the result was that systems infected with virii were not being fixed, because they weren't fixed they would eventually end up attacking other systems, which would effect other users.

Everyone (as far as I recall) is allowed to patch critical flaws, of which there are many, but not a number of the other 'useful' updates. My information may not be correct.

[Heretic Machine]

I once had to do a inproper reboot and when I tried to log back in this piece of shit popped up and told me that my copy of Windows wasn't legitimate (it is) and that I'd have to wait thirty seconds to log on. What kind of bullshit is that?

Don't ship me products that turn the operating system I paid $200 for into shareware.

[GrinR]

Msdn 4 Lyf

[inmostlight]

The title of this news post is HIGHLY misleading and inaccurate. WGA may be spyware, but I have not seen any information anywhere that it's a rootkit.

[GrinR]

The title of this news post is HIGHLY misleading and inaccurate. WGA may be spyware, but I have not seen any information anywhere that it's a rootkit.

agreed .

[inmostlight]

Borrow Citizen Philip's tin-hat someday, you'll understand a whole new world of misleading and inaccurate. :rolleyes:

Also, I think the whole hullabaloo for this thing is overblown. It's sneaky and shifty the way they rolled it out, but why are people even surprised that something that verifies registration will check with Microsoft? Isn't that the WHOLE POINT?

<sarcasm>Oh crap! I just realized that when I turn on my 360 it also contacts ***! I have SPYWARE ON MY XBOX!!!!</sarcasm>

[mpsmith]

I highly doubt anything it does is undocumented. Perhaps buried in documentation, but not undocumented. As I recall, in order to get a US government contract, a program cannot contain undocumented code/functionality.

[askheaves]

I'm a little worried that, since I work in a cleared facility, I'm liable for any information that comes out of my computer. I'm ok with taking responsibility for transmissions that I initiate (like this post)... but I'm not a fan of my computer (and every other computer here) opening up connections over the internet at arbitrary times.

I'm also a little worried since my XP crack at home stop working.

[Metal Jesus]

At work I still run Windows 2000 and it works perfectly. Why switch? Oh games?! yeah, those run on the Xbox 360 just fine, thank you.

[KarmaGhost]

Well no shit. That's all I have to say about that.

[Mason]

I'm a little worried that, since I work in a cleared facility, I'm liable for any information that comes out of my computer. I'm ok with taking responsibility for transmissions that I initiate (like this post)... but I'm not a fan of my computer (and every other computer here) opening up connections over the internet at arbitrary times.

I'm also a little worried since my XP crack at home stop working.
Zonealarm.

[shnastybiznastic]

I don't know why microsoft even cares about home user desktop piracy in the US. The people pirating windows are building thier own machines, and constitute a very small fraction of the install base.

Besides, I'll just switch back to linux if it turns out I can't run windows anymore. It's not like I remember why I wanted to run XP to begin with. :rolleyes:

[Mozgus]

Another fine example of legitimate consumers getting fucked, and pirates being granted a better life. I never installed WGA. It said I needed to, but I read the description and said hell no. Then they tried to force it on us, and I just used a crack. I don't like things on my system communicating with ANYTHING on the internet, without my permission. Like Splinter Cell 3 downloading ads for the levels while I play. Screw that. Cracked. I even disable Windows Time Synchronization. I know what the time is.

[Heretic Machine]

Zonealarm.

Yup, that's what I use. Just double-checked to make sure I blocked WGA.

[GrinR]

(apologize for cheap shot re. Citizen Philip, now deleted.)

[Phanto]

I believe they are already protecting their products by placing a serial number, I know that serial number is for identification purpose but is also for security, I really think they don't need the WGA.

[bboy]

Perhaps a less intrusive option would have been to require users to manually input their XP key at 'update.microsoft.com'. Of course, though, this does not acheive the level of information gathering that Microsoft requires.

[Deadend]

I never installed it in the first place, at it seemed to be one of those "we don't trust you" computing things.

[Jukey]

I never installed it in the first place, at it seemed to be one of those "we don't trust you" computing things.
Same here :D

[TrackZero]

Its rather odd.. There are god knows how many people with cracked copies of Windows XP. So if microsoft stops offering them updates (which is what WGA does), then all those people become vulnerable to security flaws. If it just affected these people Microsoft really shouldn't care. But these flaws are almost certianly going to be used by worms. So what Microsoft is doing in actuality, is creating millions of drone computers that can distribute worms.

No, the people who own those machines with outdated/unpaid for software are creating the problem, not MS. When my car gets old and starts having problems (and becomes a danger on the highway), it's in no way the car manufacturers problem, it's mine. The only difference in that analogy is the timeframe before problems occur. End of story.

I have a paid for copy of windows, so I really don't care if it "calls home" once every few months to say I'm legit. so long as it isn't sending anything else, I'm fine with it.

[TrackZero]

Another fine example of legitimate consumers getting fucked, and pirates being granted a better life. I never installed WGA. It said I needed to, but I read the description and said hell no. Then they tried to force it on us, and I just used a crack. I don't like things on my system communicating with ANYTHING on the internet, without my permission. Like Splinter Cell 3 downloading ads for the levels while I play. Screw that. Cracked. I even disable Windows Time Synchronization. I know what the time is.

I fail to see in any way how legitimate consumers are "fucked" by this. Explain further.

[hg321]

No, the people who own those machines with outdated/unpaid for software are creating the problem, not MS. When my car gets old and starts having problems (and becomes a danger on the highway), it's in no way the car manufacturers problem, it's mine. The only difference in that analogy is the timeframe before problems occur. End of story.

I have a paid for copy of windows, so I really don't care if it "calls home" once every few months to say I'm legit. so long as it isn't sending anything else, I'm fine with it.

you should be worried that it's calling home to Bill to tell him about your goat porn :eek:

[Varsity]

Paranioa alert! Microsoft are, um, er, well, I don't really know. They are spying on when we turn our computers on? How tragic for us all.

I pray for the day when people will grow some neurons about this sort of stuff.

[Lord Dongkey]

http://windowsupdate.62nds.com/whyuse.php

Hmm... served me well for awhile.

[Goronmon]

Can the title be edited? Its not only ignorant, its also misleading.

I mean, seriously, the reason I don't watch the news on TV is the crap they "add" to the stories. The last thing I want is some dumbass who posts news on EA adding "info" to the news stories.

[Roc Ingersol]

meh. people who paid can turn it off.

people who pirated... whatever.

[Citizen Philip]

Can the title be edited? Its not only ignorant, its also misleading.

I mean, seriously, the reason I don't watch the news on TV is the crap they "add" to the stories. The last thing I want is some dumbass who posts news on EA adding "info" to the news stories.

Definitions of Rootkit on the Web, taken from Google:

* A hacker security tool that captures passwords and message traffic to and from a computer. A collection of tools that allows a hacker to provide a backdoor into a system, collect information on other systems on the network, mask the fact that the system is compromised, and much more. Rootkit is a classic example of Trojan Horse software. Rootkit is available for a wide range of operating systems.
www.tecrime.com/0gloss.htm

* A set of programs used to hack into a system and gain administrative-level access. Once a program has gained access, it can be used to monitor traffic and keystrokes; create a backdoor into the system for the hacker's use; alter log files; attack other machines on the network; and alter existing system tools to circumvent detection. Rootkits are an extreme form of System Modification Software. http://www.antispywarecoalition.org/
www.wetstonetech.com/page/page/1972572.htm

* A root kit is a set of tools used by an intruder after cracking a computer system. These tools can help the attacker maintain his or her access to the system and use it for malicious purposes. Root kits exist for a variety of operating systems such as Linux, Solaris, and versions of Microsoft Windows.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rootkit


Obviously a number of the definitions for a rootkit can not be applied, because it's unknown what it can do, if it can be hijacked, etc. My point is:

Is it a big deal? No, probably not. Will it cause you problems? Probably not. Is Micrsosoft snooping your system? Mostly not. Is it a good idea to have this on your system? Probably not. Should they disguise it's installation as a critical update? NO!

If you want to start splitting hairs over the definition of "shit secretly installed on your computer, doing stuff you don't want" by all means, have at it: I'm going to use the word ROOTKIT whenever a corporation tries to slip anti-piracy shit onto my system without express permission.

This isn't directly specifically at you Goronmon. ;)

[[Jez]]

I know two people who have bought copies of xp and get the "Your a pirating mother fucker" nag screens and one person who pirated xp and has never had a problem with this....

[TyphoidMarty]

No, the people who own those machines with outdated/unpaid for software are creating the problem, not MS. When my car gets old and starts having problems (and becomes a danger on the highway), it's in no way the car manufacturers problem, it's mine. The only difference in that analogy is the timeframe before problems occur. End of story.

I have a paid for copy of windows, so I really don't care if it "calls home" once every few months to say I'm legit. so long as it isn't sending anything else, I'm fine with it.
Lets see if you start to care when the hypothesised millions of infected computers slow the internet to a crawl with DOS attacks. Yeah good luck with that, let me know how it works out for you.

[Goronmon]

Obviously a number of the definitions for a rootkit can not be applied, because it's unknown what it can do, if it can be hijacked, etc.I fail to see how any of those definitions even come close to MS receiving a message over the internet to determine whether you have a valid copy of Windows.

Just because its stupid, doesn't mean its a rootkit.

[Citizen Philip]

I fail to see how any of those definitions even come close to MS receiving a message over the internet to determine whether you have a valid copy of Windows.

Just because its stupid, doesn't mean its a rootkit.

Okay? Then what is it?

[fitbabits]

Update - here's some points from the EULA worth posting. Whether or not you choose to think of WGA as spyware or rootkit is up to you, but this should help you decide:

6. Computer Information. This supplement uses Internet protocols to send to Microsoft computer information, such as your Windows XP product key, hard drive serial number, PC manufacturer, operating system version, Windows XP product ID, PC BIOS information, user locale setting, language version of Windows XP, validation result and whether the installation of this supplement was successful. Certain information derived from your IP address, which cannot be used to identify you, is retained in association with this computer information.

7. Use of Information. We may use the computer information to improve our software and services, help prevent improperly licensed use of the software, and develop aggregate statistics. We may also share the aggregate data with others, such as hardware and software vendors and volume licensees to help protect their license keys.

8. CONSENT FOR INTERNET-BASED SERVICES. BY USING THIS FEATURE, YOU CONSENT TO THE TRANSMISSION AND USE OF THE ABOVE COMPUTER INFORMATION. MICROSOFT DOES NOT USE THE INFORMATION TO IDENTIFY OR CONTACT YOU.